Raid mob rotation idea, and Teirs

[Kelven]

There's just too much bickering on these forums, and no ideas/solutions. I quickly wrote this one up in notepad.

Kelven's Non-poopsocking rotation suggestion.

Certain guilds wanted to get away from the carebear rotation because they felt they were more "hardcore" and deserved loot more then casual players who are
unable to play as much as them. While this holds some merit, it has driven the raiding scene into one big boring campfest lasting on average 3-4 days
straight.

I am under the impression that 95% of the server, or more, does not actually like to poopsock-camp mobs all week, and would like the chance to do other
activities, whether that be on or offline.

Yes this is just like the old server boss rotation we had in place when guilds first started raiding, with some minor tweaks.

Rotation:
The first issue is how will everyone determine WHO is allowed into the guild raiding rotation.

Right now the "raiding" guilds that I know of are as follows:

Dark Ascension
Inglorious Basterds
Divinity
Wrathful Inquisition
Transcendence
Remedy/Europa

Alliances will always be counted as 1, regardless of numbers.

Now lets break the boss targets down by how hard they are.
My reasoning behind this is also to allow the more "hardcore" and larger guilds a smaller list on the most sought after raid bosses.

Teir1: Draco, Maestro
Teir2: Vox, Nagafen, Innorruk, Cazic Thule.
We could possibly even break Vox/Nag into a Teir 3 and increase the *player-online requirement*

About how many people should be required to kill each boss. I know you can probably do CT/Inny with 12-15 people depending what classes you have, but lets
keep these numbers realistic - and let them reflect the size of the guild that should be allowed to tackle a certain raid mob.

Required raid force ( Tagged ) for Teir1 bosses: 15
Required raid force ( Tagged ) for Teir2 bosses: 20
Required raid force ( Tagged ) for Teir3 ? bosses: 25 ?

If a guild cannot produce such a raid force, they will be unable to compete for certain Teir bosses. These are just guestimated numbers, but I feel they are pretty accurate on what type of raid force the larger raiding guilds would have.

Suggested spawn timers.
Teir 1, 3 days - that's about what they are already?
Teir 2, 5-6 days - that's about what they are already?

Remove the +/- 48 hours so that guilds can plan to have people online for their kills.

How the rotation works: *Example*, this does not account for every possible occurrence.

week 1

Guild-A : Vox - Maestro
Guild-B : Nagafen - Draco
Guild-C : CT
Guild-D : Inny

Guild-E : Sits out

week 2

Guild-E : Vox
Guild-A : Nagafen
Guild-B : CT - Maestro
Guild-C : Inny - Draco

Guild-D : Sits out

week 3

Guild-D : Vox - Draco
Guild-E : Nagafen
Guild-A : CT
Guild-B : Inny

Guild-C : Maestro

I would like to note that Draco/Maestro will be passed through the list much faster, leading to some guilds having two targets per week, or none.
The amount of guilds allowed to try the Teir1 targets will also be on a larger list.

How long do you have?

Guild-x is allowed 24 hours to kill said mob. This allows people who aren't online 24/7 to get a shot, and not attach socks to their asses.

IF a guild cannot kill the boss target within the 24 hours allotted, they will forfeit their spot, and said boss will transfer to the next guild on
rotation. The failing guild will also forfeit there rotation for THAT SPECIFIC BOSS, on their immediate following rotation, but be allowed to attempt
again after 1 full rotation.

IF this guild cannot defeat the boss on their 2nd attempt/rotation they will forfeit there spot on that boss for the remainder of the month or X amount of rotations. This will be an attempt to keep the list small, so we don't have new guilds popping up like weeds trying to claim bosses.

Determining who gets to be on the list will take some sitting down between guild leaders. Smaller and newly formed guilds will, and should be skipped from the list until they can prove they can handle the targets - although the rules to determine this are a bit vague in my head at the moment.

I'm sure there will be people who trash this idea, because they can be online all day / everyday camping bosses - but that's just not what I envisioned this server would become.

This is my original draft, but if we were going to adopt a raid rotation again between guilds - I think this is a good start.

[Coalrymer]

Not to poopoo on what you put here but, uhh. It won’t work. That would only allow the certain number of guilds in there to raid. Without them getting too feisty. New guilds are popping up all the time.

Good post though

[nicemace]

im all for rotation, but change the 24 hour window to kill to 1.5 hours, maybe 3 at the max, but keep it short. especially if you remove variance since guilds should be able to plan for the pop of a mob.

no wipes, you wipe you lose your spot.

both of the above result in FFA. mob, dosent pass off to next guild.

aside from that i'd be happy.

[Toony]

Originally Posted by nicemace [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

im all for rotation, but change the 24 hour window to kill to 1.5 hours, maybe 3 at the max, but keep it short.

I agree on a smaller window, 8-12 hours max, if you can't field a raid force by then you just aren't in the mix imo.

p.s. my reasoning on 8-12 hours is, if you're already agreeing to a rotation, you need to factor in server outages, restarts and time zones.

And yes, absolutely, new guilds have to be considered.

[Kelven]

Originally Posted by nicemace;

im all for rotation, but change the 24 hour window to kill to 1.5 hours, maybe 3 at the max, but keep it short. especially if you remove variance since guilds should be able to plan for the pop of a mob.

no wipes, you wipe you lose your spot.

both of the above result in FFA. mob, dosent pass off to next guild.

aside from that i'd be happy.

1.5 hours is far too short for CT or Inny. what if the planes are full popped? you can't clear them out in 1.5 hours. 1.5 hours is also such a small window if the boss spawns at 3AM on a weeknight. there's still a good chance that it will be up at the end of the 12 hour window ( 3pm ) because the people who couldn't be on at 3am, probably aren't on at 3pm - therefore the "hardcore" will have their chance.

The point of rotation is to give people a chance. I'd rather not tease a guild with an impossible time window.

Originally Posted by Amra;

Why is FFA such a bad option?

So the more hardcore guilds get more targets...that's why we call them hardcore. It would still allow smaller guilds a chance at said targets. If there was one guild dominating people might step up and challenge them by beating them to targets or just flat out ksing them with numbers.

FFA in itself is too chaotic of an idea to handle. There's already far far far too much drama.

[blizzil]

FFA is not to chaotic - you just take turns on pulls

What is chaotic about that?

[Loke]

1.5 hours is more than enough for Inny.

I personally am against forced rotations. However, this could be a feasable idea assuming the time a guild has claim to amob is extremely limited (i.e. if it's not dead 45 minutes or an hour after it spawns - it's free game.)

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1.5 hours is more than enough for Inny.

I personally am against forced rotations. However, this could be a feasable idea assuming the time a guild has claim to amob is extremely limited (i.e. if it's not dead 45 minutes or an hour after it spawns - it's free game.)

45 minutes for a full fear clear isn't anywhere near feasible, nor is an hour and a half for either fear or hate. In hate it can certainly be done, but if you're raiding with low numbers than it would be cutting it close. Keep in mind that we might actually see trackers sitting in planes/zones waiting for a pop without a 30-man force sitting next to them.

Factor in mobilization time, amount of time to clear and a small prep before engagement. The windows may even differ depending on the target/zone, with fear being the tougher clear partially due to the AC change whereas hate might be a shorter time frame, and then dragons even lower. Of course this all varies on how much we want to reward guilds who are willing to get up at off hours and how much leniency guilds who don't do this may actually get, and then whether a solid time frame should be applied for all targets/planes or one that varies depending on the zone.

[nicemace]

obviously fear/ct is an exception people. as evorix said, 6 hours for ct would be more than fair.

[Evorix]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

45 minutes for a full fear clear isn't anywhere near feasible, nor is an hour and a half for either fear or hate. In hate it can certainly be done, but if you're raiding with low numbers than it would be cutting it close. Keep in mind that we might actually see trackers sitting in planes/zones waiting for a pop without a 30-man force sitting next to them.

Factor in mobilization time, amount of time to clear and a small prep before engagement. The windows may even differ depending on the target/zone, with fear being the tougher clear partially due to the AC change whereas hate might be a shorter time frame, and then dragons even lower. Of course this all varies on how much we want to reward guilds who are willing to get up at off hours and how much leniency guilds who don't do this may actually get, and then whether a solid time frame should be applied for all targets/planes or one that varies depending on the zone.

I'm pretty sure loke knows 45minutes for a fear clear is unrealistic... but 1hr/1hr 15mins for anything is can be done. 5-6hrs would be feasible for CT. Most of the stuff is currently at 30mins to be pulled or u r skipped. This would give 30 extra minutes to mobilize, which should be plenty.

I see it as the only way to give each guild a fair chance, but still gives the raid scene some competition and rewards the hardcore guilds.