R99 - 'Improving' Spell Casting

[Alecta]

As you can see from the patch notes, we've been revisiting some of the spell mechanics on R99.

We would prefer to keep these as classic as possible. Mechanics like LOS checks, channeling, water dancing, cast times, spell effect behaviors, resists etc. should be as classic / appropriate to the era as possible.

I know Null tried to balance things but I feel like should do that using the 'unknowns' (ie, resist formulas) rather than changing the 'knowns'.

Also, we're looking for community feedback, but particularly quality feedback. Saying "resists are broken" is less helpful than "ice comet always lands for full" is less helpful than saying "Ice comet landed for full in 8/10 casts at 200 CR when cast by an even con. Should be partialing for half that." We won't act on every bit of input, but the more the better.

We understand that a lot of this is going to lack hard evidence from 'live', but hopefully we can get to a place where most people are happy.

[Alecta]

Non-Classic Mechanics

You've had a chance to play with these, we want some feedback on whether or not they should stay in.

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?

Root and Snare Duration

Null also made it so root and snare do not have a chance to break on ticks. Instead if they land, they always land for the full duration. They only break on spell damage and melee damage. Melee damage has a (damage/5)% chance to break, so a 500 hp blow always breaks it, a 250 hp blow will have a 50% chance to break it, etc.

Personally, I think that by not giving it a chance to break on ticks, it further trivializes resists. And while I understand the logic behind the melee damage, that's not exactly classic.

Also, the Titanium Client has a 24 second snare cap for PvP that we are currently overriding. Any opinions on the 24 second cap with tic checks for snare?

[Technique]

On the subject of casting mechanics, I'd also like to see this addressed:

Added a 5% per attack reduction in channeling chance.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mec...ails_for_p1999

As far as I know, there's no evidence that anything like this existed on live. Melee push and the channeling formula should've been investigated first.

[Bokke]

Originally Posted by Alecta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Non-Classic Mechanics

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?

I agree with you here. If a caster starts to go for a huge hitting spell you should be able to line of sight it. It gives melee a clear advantage in very close quarters with nearby LoS but that's really not a bad thing and a caster can re-position themselves in response, or use faster spells, or use other utility like thorns/pets etc. LOS always added more variety and positioning to pvp.

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Alecta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Non-Classic Mechanics

You've had a chance to play with these, we want some feedback on whether or not they should stay in.

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?

Root and Snare Duration

Null also made it so root and snare do not have a chance to break on ticks. Instead if they land, they always land for the full duration. They only break on spell damage and melee damage. Melee damage has a (damage/5)% chance to break, so a 500 hp blow always breaks it, a 250 hp blow will have a 50% chance to break it, etc.

Personally, I think that by not giving it a chance to break on ticks, it further trivializes resists. And while I understand the logic behind the melee damage, that's not exactly classic.

Also, the Titanium Client has a 24 second snare cap for PvP that we are currently overriding. Any opinions on the 24 second cap with tic checks for snare?

LoS check: think null had it perfect here. Maaybe reduce the range to 50% only in dungeons, and keep it 70% for outdoors. Running around in guk or solb or whatever dungeon, you have almost 0 chance of getting to 70% spell distance, especially if mobs are around. If los was needed both at beginning and end, casters would be way too gimped. They'd basically be limited to outdoor zones with flat plains (they'd get to rule the karanas though!...).

Root: I always thought null's root system with 5% was fine, and the one time someone actually gets rooted they cry too hard. Mage pet root was actually op, but regular root... RARELY was casted in PvP. Only time I ever saw it was desperate attempts at keeping someone from reaching a zone line. I've never even once had a guild "root train" called. It's always a "dispell train" for a reason. If root was as op as everyone complains it was, they'd have actually been casting the spell.

That said.. seeing as it's already been changed to 2% chance down from 5, I really think it doesn't matter how the "break" mechanic functions. Breaking on ticks (and nukes) is most classic, so do it so nilbog can sleep better at night.

Snare: I'd keep it going over 24 seconds, with resist checks every tick. Classic. Hrm.. with regards to root and snare, once they land the first time, is the "break free" check harder to pass than the initial "get rooted" check? Because if they are the same (which I do not think they should be) then all roots and snares would only be lasting for 1 tick... this would make them really even more useless, and probably why null had them land for full duration and then have them break the way he did. Soo.. the "break free" check would have to have a lower probability than the initial landing of the spell.

[Colgate]

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Root: I always thought null's root system with 5% was fine, and the one time someone actually gets rooted they cry too hard. Mage pet root was actually op, but regular root... RARELY was casted in PvP. Only time I ever saw it was desperate attempts at keeping someone from reaching a zone line. I've never even once had a guild "root train" called. It's always a "dispell train" for a reason. If root was as op as everyone complains it was, they'd have actually been casting the spell.

every group/mass pvp had at least 1 or 2 people chain casting root on me

there were many fights where it would land and i'd be instagibbed

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

every group/mass pvp had at least 1 or 2 people chain casting root on me

there were many fights where it would land and i'd be instagibbed

Why didn't they just chain sunstrike you?

[Stinkum]

RZ rules:

- Damage spells were capped at 66% of their normal damage against players
- Damage spells did not require line of sight in order to hit PCs. Therefore you can attack and be attacked through walls, floors, etc.
- Point-Blank AE spells did not harm your groupmates, but they hurt your pet.
- You were able to attack your own pet. If you attack your pet (spell or melee) it will instantly suicide.
- Resistance Debuffs (the Tashan and Malosi series) had an increased impact on players.
- Harmtouch and Lay on Hands did not recycle on ANY death. You had to wait full duration to use these abilities again.

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Syft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It wasn't 66% it was set to 33% for nuke's that would leave lure's doing 200 dmg no wizard would have ever gotten a kill.

Your stupidity truly is something to behold.

[SamwiseRed]

Originally Posted by Syft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet's also didn't suicide on Rallos during Kunark era they went Rogue and became monster NPC's that argo'd everyone in sight!

i tried telling people this but they wouldnt listen. also when players would go ld on rz sometimes their pets would just go nuts and start murdering everyone