Game Mechanics: PvP Damage Reduction should not apply to self-casted spells until Sept 1999 era

[Dolalin]

Until September 1999, there was no PvP damage reduction on spells cast upon yourself.

This includes the damage portion of the Canny and Lich lines of spells.

Presently these spells are doing too little damage per tick for our era. Likewise for all other damaging spells that players might cast on themselves.

Evidence that the PvP damage reduction affected Mana Regen spells:

9/15/99

This is not a whine, but a request for info and feedback from those with more information.

On "Patch Day" I logged in as my little necro and experimented
with some of my spells, just like a lot of other people. Most
of the spells appeared to work as advertised in the patch message,

but...

I noticed that when I cast "Dark Pact" I did not take damage
while meditating. Previously, I would take 2 hps per tick while
sitting. Now I take none. I assume the damage portion of the
spell has been cut in half from 4 hps per tick to 2, so that while
sitting, no damage is taken or regenerated.

I have two questions. Can anyone tell if the mana regeneration
portion of the spell has been reduced (nerfed)? I never payed
scrupulous attention to the time difference in mana recovery with
or without the spell while meditating, so I really can't tell.

Verant's next day "emergency" patch message claimed that no spell
effects had changed other than those listed in the previous day's
message, but that some damage effects would change for spells cast
by a PC on himself due to the reduction of spell damage in PVP
situations. Needless to say, I find it hard to believe that PVP
spell damage has been cut in half. I suspect Verant has tinkered
with the Dark Pact spell (series?) deliberately, but simply forgot to
include the change in the patch message.

My other question, of course, is whether anyone seen any changes in
the higher level spells in the same series, such as "Allure of Death".

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To my knowledge the spell damage in PvP situations had been reduced. Oddly enough this includes self casting so now self casting is no longer an accurate was to test a spells effectiveness. Unless you're testing for PvP purposes.)

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....U/fsLxbdPT5hQJ

The PvP damage reduction went in in the September 13th 1999 patch:

PVP Changes

In order to make PVP combat between spellcasters and melee types more viable some changes to PVP spell effects have been made. All damage spells cast in PVP combat will do less damage to the PC than the same spell would do to an NPC. When a PC is under the effect of a root-type spell there is a 20% chance that they will break free when a direct damage spell is cast upon them.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes#PVP_Changes

The PvP damage reduction should not be applied until September 1999 era.

[DMN]

Not sure i trust that necro. the lich line always traded ~1 hit point for ~1 mana. if it was doing 4 before, that would be giving level 8 necro the same mana regeneration as a level 29 clarity spell. just no way in hell that was happening. he also sounds a bit noobish.

[Dolalin]

It was not always 1:1, before the PvP damage nerf the Dark Pact line started at 2:1 hp:mana, getting better as you got upgrades in the spell line.

The PvP damage reduction patch giving a boost to mana conversion spells was a really well known thing. Sony devs commented on it later on, I will try to dig that up since I mained a necro on live but appreciate not everyone will have known about this.

It would also have affected the ratio on manastone I would think.

[Dolalin]

This thread on Alla explains it:

With Demi-Lich on I lose 30 standing and 29 sitting. which means Demi-Lich is taking away 38hps TOTAL when I'm sitting(29+9), and 36 TOTAL when I'm standing(30+6). What is wrong with this picture, this isn't even close to the 48hp/tick mentioned.

The answer to this is actually quite simple. The damage that all of our convergence spells do is considered to be a detrimental PvP spell and all detrimental PvP spells will only do 75% of thier damage. You can do tests with all of the convergence spells and see that they all only do 75% of the hp damage to you compared to what is stated by lucy.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...05772386117568

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread on Alla explains it:




http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...05772386117568

If true how come lich does 22 damage instead of 24?

it's not some sort of rounding error either as .75 of 32 is exactly 24.

i'm guessing they monkeyed with the damage of things like lich/can lines so they would still be at their normal "balanced" values.... Should be easy to check with the original spell data.

it's not 60% either beause that would be either 19 or 20 depending if they truncated or rounded up.

[Dolalin]

I think the PvP reduction values were tinkered with by Verant, because right after this patch the reduction is given as 60% but it is 75% in that 2002/2003 Alla thread above. That explains the numbers mismatch.

9/14/99

According to Verant, casting on players (i.e. PvP) only incurrs 60% of the
NPC DoT damage. Therefore casting on yourself is a PvP action so you only
incur 60% of the damage.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....4/nKUERDsVBFMJ

DD and DoT reductions may have been different, I will have to check. PvP anything isn't really my strong suit tbh.

[Dolalin]

Well yes, just check the Lucy history for the Lich line:

2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 7 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 32 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 22 per tick"

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...44&source=Live

Looks like they fixed this "quirk" in 2006.

Anyways, what I meant was that 60% of 4, rounded down, is 2, which makes the numbers for Dark Pact given in my original post line up correctly. This 60% must have been tweaked up to 75% by 2002 to line up with the Alla thread.

[Dolalin]

Here's a post from August 1999 echoing Test server patch message regarding the PvP damage reduction. Gives the percentage reduction as 60% at that point (no distinction between DoT and nukes, incidentally):

8/26/99

The Test Server has now been converted to a PvP-teams server for testing
purposes. In addition, the following changes have been made.

PvP spell damage is 60 percent that of player vs NPC damage. (YAY!)

If a player is rooted by another player, then hit by a spell from
another player, the root effect is removed. (YAY AGAIN! Helps vs. naked
mage syndrome)

Experience is no longer lost when dying to a DoT spell only on the Pvp
and PvP-teams server.

It is no longer possible to loot from a player's weapon or ammo slots.

If an NPC is pursuing you while under the effect of a DoT it will only
take half damage. ( as opposed to taking no damage)

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....c/5keZjQadvWsJ

Edit: This post from Feb 2000 also gives the reduction as still 60% at that time, and also for wizards so it must have affected all spell damage, DoT and DD both:

2/15/00

All I can say Lyion, you have NO idea what you are talking about. Wizards
was the first class to get nerfed in PVP. In fact the nerf has made them the
one of weakest PVP class there is. We do only 60% damage using the only
spell range we have. This means that the slow casting ice Comet will only do
660 damage per cast, this means that you will need to cast at least two of
these to kill a shaman.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....E/8F1Dq0j_ZG8J

[Tecmos Deception]

Canni definitely hits for the full 50 on green.

[Dolalin]

Hmm, are P99's hitpoint values for the Lich line all not classic? The wiki gives the HP reduction for Lich as only 22 per tick... oh dear. That's not good!