The Resist System Balance Thread

[wehrmacht]

UPDATED RESIST MODIFIERS FOR ALL SPELLS SO IGNORE ALL THE CASTER WHINING RESPONSES UNDERNEATH

Wiz cast draught for -75 resist modifier without debuff
Mage cast nukes for -75 resist modifier with mala
Enchanter nuke and dot for -75 resist modifier after tash
Shamans dot for -75 resist modifier with malo and about the same for insidious decay


Making this thread so people can post what they think the resist system should be. When I say post what it should be, I don't mean "I'm a level 4 halfling and I want my spells to blow things up". I mean post actual numbers, some kind of resist formula or system. The chart I posted in another thread is basically the exact same resist system used on Sullon Zek during Kunark and Velious. So my method of balance is to start from that point, then modify resists on a per-spell basis from there. One major reason it should be done this way is because casters usually dominate melee in the lower levels and don't really start lagging until late Kunark. There's no need to adjust the low end to make them any more powerful there, just at 50+.


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Changes made to spells for each class

All of this can be done so the changes only occur when you're casting on other players and not have any effect on PvE. 99% of the changes are level 51+ spells only.

- Malo, Mala, & Tash - while debuffed by either of these spell lines, they do their normal debuff value as well as nullifying the effects of any cold, fire, magic, and poison resist buffs you have up until it wears off. This would affect bards too, so no more invincible training machines.

- I tried to implement stuns into PvP to add more skill to caster vs caster spell fights so you can strategically interrupt each others heals, nukes, gates, etc. To accomplish this, the stuns need to land more reliably but for less duration. You can also cast it to let people catch up to a runner. Duration is short enough so you're not going to be perma locking people down with multiple casters.

- normal PvP spell damage reduction still applies as well as line of sight check at start and end of spell cast


Wizard Spells

- Wizard draughts changed to -75 resist mod

- Wizard Ice Spear of Solist changed to -75 resist mod

- Wizard Sunstrike changed to -50 resist mod

- Wizard Markar's Discord changed to 2 second stun -50 resist mod

- Wizard Thunderbolt AE spell (if in game) changed to 2 second stun -50 resist mod

- Wizard AE's changed to -50 resist mod: Winds of Gelid, Jyll's Wave of Heat, Vengeance of Al'Kabor, Invert Gravity, Tears of Prexus, Pillar of Flame, Retribution of Al'Kabor, Tears of Solusek

Cleric Spells

- Cleric spell Judgement changed to -50 resist mod

- Cleric spell Reckoning changed to -50 resist mod

- Cleric spell Upheavel changed to -50 resist mod

- Cleric spell The Unspoken word changed to -25 resist mod (has a blind component so can't lower it to 50)

- Cleric spell Enforced Reverence changed to 2s stun duration -50 resist mod

- Cleric spell Force changed to 2s stun duration and -50 resist mod (changed due to paladin having it changed)


Druid Spells

- Druid spell Wildfire changed to -50 resist mod

- Druid spell Fist of Karana changed to -50 resist mod

- Druid spell Breath of Karana changed to -50 resist mod and 2s stun to match other stuns

- Druid spell Frost resist changed to -50 resist mod

- Druid spell Scoriae changed to -50 resist mod

- Druid spell Blizzard changed to -50 resist mod

- Druid spell Winged Death changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

- Druid spell Drifting Death changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

- Druid spell Drones of Doom changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

Enchanter

- Enchanter spell Asphyxiate changed to -35 resist mod

- Enchanter spell Dementing Visions changed to -35 resist mod

- Enchanter spell Torment of Argli spell changed to -35 resist mod

- Enchanter spell Largarn's Lamentation changed to 2s stun -50 resist mod

- Enchanter spell Dementia changed to -35 resist mod

- Enchanter spell Color Slant changed to 2s stun & -50 resist mod

Magician

- Mage spell Call of the Hero changed to not clear aggro to lower it's usefulness for training(optional)

- Mage spell Manastorm changed to -40 resist mod

- Mage spell Seeking Flame of Seukor changed to -40 resist mod

- Mage spell Shock of Steel changed to -40 resist mod

- Mage spell Sirocco changed to -40 resist mod

- Mage spell Scars of Sigil changed to -40 resist mod

- Mage spell Char changed to -40 resist mod

- Mage spell Scintillation changed to -40 resist mod

Necromancer

- Necromancer spell Pyrocruor changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

- Necromancer spell Cessation of Cor changed to -50 resist mod

- Necromancer spell Chill Bones changed to -50 resist mod

- Necromancer spell Plague changed to -50 resist mod

- Necromancer spell Splurt changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

- Necromancer spell Envenomed Bolt changed to -50 resist mod

- Necromancer spell Ignite Blood changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

Paladin

- Paladin spell Force changed to 2s duration -50 resist mod

Ranger

- Ranger spell Dustdevil changed to -40 resist mod

- Ranger spell Drones of Doom changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

- Ranger spell Firestrike changed to -40 resist mod

Shadowknight

- Shadowknight spell Asystole changed to -50 resist mod

- Shadowknight spell Boil Blood changed from -100 to -200 resist mod

Shaman

- Shaman spell Bane of Nife changed to -30 resist mod

- Shaman spell Torrent of Poison changed to -40 resist mod

- Shaman spell Ice Strike changed to -40 resist mod

- Shaman spell Pox of Bertoxxulous changed to -30 resist mod

[Misto]

nice graph

[Foxx]

that graph is way to mathematically complex..

also, root and snare should be removed from the game (this includes necro/sk darkness) imo

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Foxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that graph is way to mathematically complex..

also, root and snare should be removed from the game (this includes necro/sk darkness) imo

Yea... and so should warriors ability to dual wield...

[wehrmacht]

If anybody wants to whine and claim this is a bad system, go ahead and post your own and we'll see if it looks any better. With the one I posted, a warrior walking around unbuffed with 120 fire resist (which is a shit ton for kunark, probably would need the best warrior usable items in the game in every slot) would resist a wizard draught 45% of the time. If he had malo cast on him, he would resist draughts 0% of the time.

If the warrior was buffed with 55 fire resist buff from a druid to reach 175 fire resist, the wizard would have to use lures. If he had malo or mala cast on him while that druid resist buff was up, his resist would go from 175 to 75 due to changes in malo/mala listed in the first post.


- Malo, Mala & Tash - while debuffed by either of these spell lines, they do their normal debuff value as well as nullifying the effects of any cold, fire, magic, and poison resist buffs you have up until it wears off. This would affect bards too, so no more invincible training machines.


I think people are going to have a hard time trying to claim this system is anywhere close to being unfair to casters. It can be adjusted again once Velious is released if necessary.

[Misto]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If anybody wants to whine and claim this is a bad system, go ahead and post your own and we'll see if it looks any better.

no1's whining about ur post dumbass.

we just said nice graph.

[Foxx]

wer, most of those changes are directed towards kunark and velious era spells, i am pretty sure if/when red99 comes out it will be classic era

[Lasher]

So all or nothing nuke? no partials?

You graph makes it too easy to achieve resists for the most common stats mr,cr, and fr.

I personally like it because i will be playing a healer so doesnt afffect me as much as other casters.

As a druid with 2 pieces of raiding gear, verm bracers along with other soloable or 1 groupable items my mock set up gets me these resists self buffed

126mr( 141 with grm), 120 fr, 114cr. I can switch out tcrown for a frog crown if i konw im fighting someone using less mr nukes

Thats just druid so not sure how othe classes will fair. Like i said i like it. I know comfortably i wont be get nuked much. A sham and an ench will need to debuff me and keep those debuffs on me, im not going to let it be easy for malo line to stay on me. Tash will be harder to keep off since its so fast to cast and relative low mana.


The graph is "ok" while people are lvling from 1-50 and gearing up. Once people get geared up with just a few pieces of gear you will see a lot of resists.

So yeah, i would play with tht resist system

[Knuckle]

I think I could shit out a better graph than that, here is my totally kickass partial resist system i suggested on vztz:

White Mage knuckle w/ spell resist system

White Mage knuckle here with tomes of power from the past, here was my suggested partial resist system, with enough checks and balances to make any player happy:



http://emu.pwned.com/showthread.php?...ht=shaman+epic

08-06-2009

The best thing you can do with the spell system is add a ballpark number to each resist range, never give someone a flat percent; for a certain resist.

0-50 5-25% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 85% chance for partial resist.
Partial will do 50-95% damage.

51-100 25-35% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially 75% chance for partial resist. Partial will do 45-90% damage.

101-140 36-45% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 65% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 40-90% damage.

141-180 46-60% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially 50% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 35-85% damage.

181-240 61-80% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 45% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 25-85% damage.

241-300 68-80% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 40% chance for a partial resist. Partial will deal 20-75% damage.


A player has 76 fire resist and an opponent casts Starfire on them.

51-100 25-35% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially

a /random 100 yields 68.
The player either fully or partially resists the spell.

85% chance for partial resist. The player has a check for Full or Partial resist.

The roll comes up /random yields 39.
The player had to roll an 86 to get a full resist, since the roll was 39, now the player has a check to see what % of damage he takes.

At the 50-100 resist check, a player takes 45-90% damage. So a /random 45 90 takes place.

The roll comes up /random yields 80.

The player takes a 20% reduction in damage from the starfire.


The only difference between DoT and root effects in this case, is I argue that DoT and Root effects durations should be effected equally in these situations, there is no reason why DoT should be immune to reduction in damage, so the most reasonable solution is to make any % reduction from a partial resist reduce the number of ticks, or duration of the DoT.

A player has 110 poison resist, a shaman casts Bane of Nife on him.

101-140 36-45% chance to resist a spell fully or partially.

The players resist check /random yields 85.

The player succeeded his first check, the spell will not do it's full damage, if it does any at all, a second check is now made to see if the player fully resists Bane of Nife, or if it's duration is reduced.

The players second resist check is a 55.
65% chance for a partial resist at 100-140. Therefore the spell's DoT duration is reduced.

Now it is time to see how much the DoTs duration is reduced.
Partial resist will do 40-90% damage or duration. In this case the player partially resist bane of nife.

A third resist check is now made, yielding a 75.

Bane of Nife will last 75% of its normal duration. If it normally ticked 12 times in pvp, it will only last 9 ticks in this situation.


These two examples show how this system would work, the rule with DoTs apply to Roots. Anyway that's my 2 cents on a new resist system, it never makes a player immune but grants a very generous partial resist system, and prevents classes such as mages from being locked out from landing a spell.

I obviously would not make public to the playerbase what the actual resist level values are, since that would encourage players to make the 'minimum' in one resist and start stacking others, better to keep them in the dark.

If a player knew a resist check range was 101-140, he might consider making it just enough to hit 101 and stack another resist. Keep it hidden from the player and let him learn a balance through trial and error.

This is all I will ever put into a resist system idea, cheers.

Spells that are unresistable like the insect line of druid dots would not be effected by this system, same as lures.

Graph pic inc

[Macken]

You need to give up on creating your melee paradise.

Casters need help not nerfing.

Any nerf to casters is a real bad idea. Why do you want to discourage people from picking a class that already is too tough to play anyway? I'm sorry that you can't figure out how to win vs. root, stun, etc... but the rest of us aren't having trouble.

Wizards need their stuns, so stop proposing nerfs to an already weak class.

There is no los check at end of casting. Do you want everyone to be melee dude? have you even thought past your butt hurt feelings?

Game easier for wehrmacht = failed server for everyone else.