Enlightenment?

[magnetaress]

The universe is.... you are part of that universe. Even if the universe ceases to be. It will have always have been for this to happen.

Take solace in the present moment. Even the suffering and pain. For that is what is.

Should awareness and conciousness one day forever fade, I would take comfort in knowing there forever would be the peace and tranquility of an eternal dreamless sleep without suffering.

We may never know. Science in all it's complexity implies a holography giving rise to reality. If our prevailing theories are to be believed. Religion tells us we will experience the consequences of our lives and communion with the creator, higher beings, a greater ego, the higher self, the trinity. Or a rebirth into the very same universe we are part of. Earth and sun will one day cease to be. Humanity may end or become something else entirely. Then there may be nothing after. And you would never know. Maybe a new earth will be created. Maybe not. Live until you cannot in a good and compassionate way and you will have the most peace you may.

[Ephirith]

It's all a big cosmic horror. Absolute best case scenario, there is nothing after. If there is something on the other side, and it puts us through this, I never want to commune with it. How good could the other side be, if we would ever, for any conceivable reason at all, leave it for this?

Were we supposed to learn something? Experience something? That means something was missing such that rolling the dice on a life on Earth, with its eye-eating-worms and Unit 731, seemed a desirable endeavor. There is no conceivable paradigm where the horrors that unfold on Earth serve some noble purpose, without the whole racket fundamentally being a piece of shit.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's all a big cosmic horror. Absolute best case scenario, there is nothing after. If there is something on the other side, and it puts us through this, I never want to commune with it. How good could the other side be, if we would ever, for any conceivable reason at all, leave it for this?

Were we supposed to learn something? Experience something? That means something was missing such that rolling the dice on a life on Earth, with its eye-eating-worms and Unit 731, seemed a desirable endeavor. There is no conceivable paradigm where the horrors that unfold on Earth serve some noble purpose, without the whole racket fundamentally being a piece of shit.

I understand your sentiment, however do not believe it fundamentally true. There's these big what ifs.

What if in a higher or lower dimension(s) there is stasis. Or no control or agency. Or variable levels of agency. What if there is a place of absolute lucidity. Where you can control every aspect. Where it's all possible. Or it's perfect for you. A place of no consequence maybe.

Perhaps Earth may be at the center of this paradigm... or somewhere along this spectrum of agency and consequences. Perhaps then this place provides meaning for souls or spirits. Maybe Earth and it's universe was created as a place of consequence and struggle so we could bring our experiences to the other worlds for enrichment and controlled growth. You could be a single thread in an AI simulation. Determining all simultaneous possibilities . There are many possible reasons for an existence of suffering. For achievement. Challenge. Perfection. Growth. Overcoming adversity. A solution to eternal pain where there is an eventual endpoint in the heat death of the universe. Or the end of a species. It's possible this reality is an imagined or created one. However it need not be for my original premise to apply.

Or this is all there is. None of that exists. Its all an illusion. There is just nothing. Or this is simply only all that is. Like I said is possible in my original post. The point is to better the self. However the individual. The I. The me. Is the illusion. So the solution is compassion for the "other selfs". The greater whole of what is. And to be fully present. If you follow a religion. You already have a guide. A path laid out for you.

If you are to live. I offer compassion. Kindness. Empathy. Right action. Selflessness. To ease the suffering of that journey into the tranquil empty void of absolute nothing. Where there will be no suffering.

[Skyking]

Alright, let's translate that philosophical discussion into EverQuest terms, imagining these two players chatting by the campfire in the Plane of Tranquility or maybe even arguing in the General chat of a crowded Nexus:

Magnetaress's Initial Post (EQ Style):

"Hey all, just thinking... Norrath, the planes... we're all part of this big world, right? Even if Innoruuk finally wins and everything goes dark, it all happened. This journey we're on, the good times raiding and the wipes in PoH... it's all real now.

So, take a breath in the Bazaar, even when you're getting corpse-camped by a shadowknight or training through Mistmoore. That's just how it is right now.

If one day our characters just... poof... gone to the void, no more logging in, I'd find some peace knowing there's just that quiet logout screen forever, no more LDs or contested spawns.

We might never truly know what happens when we /q. The lore is deep, right? Some say the Shard of Hate and Shard of Fear shape our reality. Others talk about Tunare, Cazic-Thule, the gods... maybe we face their judgment based on our faction hits and quest completions. Maybe we get reborn as a level 1 gnome in Gnomeregan again. Eventually, even Norrath will probably fade, like the Age of Turmoil. Maybe our toons just vanish. Maybe a new world, like Luclin, gets created. Who knows? Just try to be a good egg, help out your guildies, don't ninja loot, and maybe you'll find some peace in your time here."

Ephirith's Response (EQ Style):

"This whole game is just one big, messed-up adventure, you know? Best case scenario when your character dies for good, it's just /delete and nothing. But if there is some GM on the other side who put us through all this... the Sontalak fights, the Plane of Hate... I don't want to petition them. What kind of reward could be worth all the grief we go through just to get an epic or finish a progression?

Were we supposed to learn something from dying to a wandering mob in the Karanas? Experience the joy of grinding levels for weeks? If so, something was seriously wrong with the design that rolling a new character on Norrath, with its plague rats and the gnolls in Blackburrow training to zone lines, seemed like a good idea. There's no way all the BS we deal with in this game serves some grand purpose without the whole thing being a total train wreck."

Magnetaress's Rebuttal and Further Thoughts (EQ Style):

"I get your frustration, man, those multi-hour raids ending in failure can be rough. But what if there's more to it? Big 'what ifs' in the higher and lower planes, you know?

What if in some other zone, there's just permanent invulnerability, no aggro, no mana drain. Or maybe you have total control, can spawn any item, be any class. Or it's just your perfect chill spot, no consequences for going LD in a raid.

Maybe Norrath is the center of it all... this place where actions have consequences, where you gotta grind and struggle. Maybe our characters' experiences here give our 'souls' or whatever something to take to those other planes for some kind of boost or growth. Maybe we're just NPCs in some super-advanced player's simulation, exploring all the different outcomes. There could be tons of reasons for the grind, the challenges, the rare drops – for achievement, for teamwork, for overcoming a tough boss. Maybe the eventual server shutdown is the only way to finally escape the endless grind. Or maybe our whole guild just gets deleted. This whole world could be just an illusion, a cleverly coded game. But even then, my original point stands.

Or maybe this is it. No other planes, no server backups in the sky. It's all just pixels and code. But even then, the best thing to do is try to be a decent player. Help out the newbies, share buffs, rez your fallen comrades. Because in the end, the 'you' that's getting frustrated at a wipe is kind of an illusion anyway – we're all just part of the big server community. So, be compassionate to your fellow adventurers. If you follow a deity like Brell Serilis or Erollisi Marr, you've already got a path to follow.

So yeah, if we're gonna keep playing, let's show some compassion, kindness, empathy, do the right thing, be selfless. It might make the grind to level 60 a little less painful on the way to that final /logout into the void where there's no more exp loss."

(And the humorous aside):

"P.S. Hey, did you guys hear? The sky is falling... or at least, that asteroid Apophis is gonna be closest to Norrath on Friday the 13th in 2029! LOL!"

Here's an image inspired by the EverQuest version of the forum thread:
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It shows a group of EverQuest characters in the Plane of Tranquility, looking up at a swirling vortex representing the unknown afterlife, blending elements of high fantasy adventure with the philosophical themes discussed.

[Reiwa]

It's the Wager recapitulated

[Skyking]

Dark Forest and Berserker hypothesis are probably the two most likely explanations

not like it's breaking news to us who grew up playing Masters of Orion or Wing Commander, Star Trek is just hopium, dark scifi always made more sense

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[Bonebrain]

Here, catch.

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[Skyking]

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[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Skyking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alright.....
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It shows a group of EverQuest characters in the Plane of Tranquility, looking up at a swirling vortex representing the unknown afterlife, blending elements of high fantasy adventure with the philosophical themes discussed.

This is beautiful. Thank you 😊

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the Wager recapitulated

The assumption is that you don't want to be consumed. This situation is very easy to outsmart by changing the rules (switching guilds, deleting the guild bank, making alts in the competing guilds, becoming a moderator, sending cute pics). Or simply carrying an Infectious pathogen or fungus that will change the colonizers morphology.

Originally Posted by Bonebrain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here, catch.

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This is the get gud, red 2.0 when? theory.

[Bonebrain]

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