Spells: A diagram showing which Bard songs stack:

[Lazortag]

It's fairly well-known that some Bard songs don't stack with other similar Bard songs, either for balance reasons or because of a bug. Just to clear things up for players who might be wondering which songs stack, I made a diagram showing which songs will not stack on p99. I made this after about 90 minutes of testing; please tell me if you suspect I've made any errors:

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Notes:

(Sorry for the liberal use of acronyms at some points - it gets tiring writing down all those long bard song names):

(1)Anthem de Arms replaces Chant of Battle if you cast Anthem after.
(2)If you cast Chant of Battle after casting Anthem de Arms, you get the message for Chant of Battle ("You feel your pulse quicken") but Anthem de Arms stays up (icon/effects included).
(3)Jonathan's Whistling Warsong replaces Vilia's Verses of Celerity if you cast it after, which probably should not happen as the latter is a level 36 song and the former is only level 7.
(4)If you cast VVC after JWW, JWW stays up and you get a "Your spell did not take hold" message.
(5)If you cast Anthem de Arms after casting VVC, you get "your spell did not take hold" and VVC stays up; however if you cast it the other way around, VVC replaces Anthem de Arms (I believe this is how it should be since VVC is a superior spell).
(6)Chant of Battle replaces McVaxius' Berserker Cruscendo, and MBC replaces CoB--in other words, the one that is cast most recently takes precedence (I don't think this is right--see (5)).
(7)JWW always takes precedence over MBC, even though MBC is pretty clearly better.
(8)Similar to (2), you get the message for Anthem de Arms even though it shouldn't (and doesn't) take hold, but you don't get the "... doesn't take hold" message.
(9)Just like (6), with MBC and VVC, the last one that was sung takes precedence.
(10) Similar to (2) and (8), if you cast CoB and then Jonathan's Provocation, you get the "You feel provoked" message, but JP doesn't actually take hold (curiously, since JP is better than CoB).
(11) If you cast AdA and then JP, JP will not take hold (JP is better than AdA so this is likely not intended). If you cast JP first, then AdA, AdA will not take hold.
(12) JP replaces VVC, VVC doesn't take hold if JP is already up (probably correct; just like (5))
(13) JP replaces MBC; MBC's message shows when JP is up but it won't hold ((2), (8), (10), etc.)
(14) JWW won't hold when Verses of Victory is up; VoV replaces JWW when JWW is up (Again, I think this is right) ((5), (12)).
(15) AdA won't hold when VoV is up; VoV replaces AdA ("")
(16) ^ same thing with VVC and VoV.
(17) VoV will replace MBC, but MBC's message shows when it's played while VoV is already up ((2), (8), ...)
(18) VoV won't take hold if JP is already up; JP replaces VoV (VoV is a level 50 spell so this is undoubtedly a bug; VoV should surely be considered better).
(19) Most of the other songs that didn't stack simply replaced each other when one was cast after the other. This actually makes sense in cases where the quality of the two songs is incommensurable.

Also, while testing this I found another bug. You will get the effects of song non-stacking even if a song isn't currently up, so long as 12 seconds from the time that you last cast that song haven't elapsed. In other words, if I play Jonathan's Whistling Warsong, click it off, and then immediately play Vilia's Verses of Celerity any time in the next 12 seconds, I will get the "your spell did not take hold" message.

Hope this helps! If anything on this diagram seems incorrect or not classic to anyone, please say so. Thanks!

[Uthgaard]

Ok, give us a TLDR of where the errors are.

[Lazortag]

[TLDR] Based on some fairly reasonable evaluations of which songs are "better" and thus should take precedence, I suspect there are errors at: (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), (8), (9), (10), (11), (13), (17), (18). Also this line of my post is a clear bug:

Also, while testing this I found another bug. You will get the effects of song non-stacking even if a song isn't currently up, so long as 12 seconds from the time that you last cast that song haven't elapsed. In other words, if I play Jonathan's Whistling Warsong, click it off, and then immediately play Vilia's Verses of Celerity any time in the next 12 seconds, I will get the "your spell did not take hold" message.

[/TLDR]
Some of these errors, as was mentioned, are actually just bugs in the spell messages (ie getting "soandso feels whatever" instead of "Your spell did not take hold" if the spell doesn't work). Also in some cases, the last song taking precedence should be the way it works (as is mentioned in (19)), but only when the quality of the songs is incommensurable (ie you can't say which song is objectively better). I'm not 100% sure this is classic but intuitively this seems right.

If anything, this is a pretty useful diagram just for any Bards wondering which songs they can twist with each other.

[Pescador]

I think it makes sense that jonathan's provocation overwrites verses of victory, since JP is self only and has a higher haste % than verses.

If you are twisting the two of them, you'll receive JP while the group receives VoV, so I think that's working as it should.

HOWEVER, chant of battle overwriting jonathan's provocation should not happen #10 on your list). If anything, I *thought* they used to stack. Regardless, chant of battle (level 1 stat buff) shouldn't overwrite JP (50% haste / str / atk)

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Pescador [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it makes sense that jonathan's provocation overwrites verses of victory, since JP is self only and has a higher haste % than verses.

If you are twisting the two of them, you'll receive JP while the group receives VoV, so I think that's working as it should.

I think you're right about this, I didn't realize how much haste JP brought.

[Uthgaard]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[TLDR] Based on some fairly reasonable evaluations of which songs are "better" and thus should take precedence, I suspect there are errors at: (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), (8), (9), (10), (11), (13), (17), (18). Also this line of my post is a clear bug:


[/TLDR]
Some of these errors, as was mentioned, are actually just bugs in the spell messages (ie getting "soandso feels whatever" instead of "Your spell did not take hold" if the spell doesn't work). Also in some cases, the last song taking precedence should be the way it works (as is mentioned in (19)), but only when the quality of the songs is incommensurable (ie you can't say which song is objectively better). I'm not 100% sure this is classic but intuitively this seems right.

If anything, this is a pretty useful diagram just for any Bards wondering which songs they can twist with each other.

Thanks.