Thoughts on movement from Class C to Class R

[Phats]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no class c kills for 1 month, inside and outside VP
simple enough, no bullshit popularity votes, no potential bias

This may be simple but can be abused. If I was a Class R guild who just completed my rotations on the mobs I deemed important and/or saw that I was near the bottom of the rotation lists(10 guild rotation is one mob every 30 spawns, most mobs spawn maximum 6-8 times per month, so on a good day its a specific mob every 3-4 months), I would just wait for a choice repop when Class C mobs included something I wanted outside of VP and just go kill it. Then for the next 30 days I would go after FFA mobs during normal respawns (ie Taken) or if my guild never did FFA mobs (ie BDA) I would just relax and get reinstated to Class R in 30 days.

If I was in Class R and saw a guild wanted to rejoin Class R, at a minimum I would make the guild being reinstated wait an additional 30 days upon acceptance back to Class R before I put them back at the bottom of every rotation list. But that is a Class R concern, as Class R is their own entity and the rotation rules they use are decided by the Class R guilds in a private setting. I do not see any further point in discussing what Class R may or may not to do to guilds who request to rejoin Class R rotations. (A big guild could easily decide to hold the rotation hostage with a demand to get back in the rotation with choice spots or just compete on Class R mobs at their leisure only abiding by the server lock out rule.)

I would propose:
If a guild enters Class C, I would make them stay in Class C for 60 days minimum. If after 60 days the guild deems Class C is not for them they may elect to go back to Class R after a 30 day cool off period. During the cool off period the guild may only compete on FFA mobs.

Thus the exposure for the guild to be locked out of Class R is a minimum of 90 days.

[falkun]

So you want to increase the punishment to go back down to Class R to encourage R guilds to step up to C?

The "new-C" guild would already have virtually zero kills for 30 days (maybe sniping some FFAs, but no C's nor R's (by definition)). Also, assuming the "C-turned-R" guild joins the R rotations at the bottom of the list, its another 3-4 months (according to your math) before they'd get a specific mob again, on top of not getting it during the 30-day no-C period, so 4-5 months without a specific target unless they get it FFA-style.

I agree that guilds going to R should (re-)join at the bottom of the R-rotation lists, but that's a class R internal issue.

Originally Posted by Phats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This may be simple but can be abused.

Let's break down how it cannot...

Originally Posted by Phats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I was a Class R guild who just completed my rotations on the mobs I deemed important and/or saw that I was near the bottom of the rotation lists(10 guild rotation is one mob every 30 spawns, most mobs spawn maximum 6-8 times per month, so on a good day its a specific mob every 3-4 months), I would just wait for a choice repop when Class C mobs included something I wanted outside of VP and just go kill it.

First, you have to win the Class-C race for that mob, attempting a C-mob does not move you to C, killing it does, per the raid page:

Successfully killing a mob spawned under Class C advances that guild to Class C automatically.

So lets say you "try harder" and out-C the current C guilds...

Originally Posted by Phats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then for the next 30 days I would go after FFA mobs during normal respawns (ie Taken) or if my guild never did FFA mobs (ie BDA) I would just relax and get reinstated to Class R in 30 days.

Now you are (re-)joining the R rotation, you are at the bottom of the list (everyone joins the rotations at the bottom). So while you could be 1 month into your wait for ALL mobs (so 2-3 months from all mobs) if you stayed in R, you are 3-4 months from ALL mobs so that you could kill ONE class-C mob. This is a net-negative in loot per time, without imposing extra restrictions. If you are trying to get R to move to C, don't impose additional penalties.

[Phats]

Killing a non vp Class C only mob on repop is very easy if its the first target you go after.

You may result in net negative on the mobs you do not deem important, but timed properly you would have a net positive on the mobs you wanted.

[Swish]

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[Joyelle]

If the penalties for moving back down to Class R are that harsh, I honestly don't see any guild trying the move to C anytime soon.

[falkun]

And then, assuming you want to move back to R, you cannot kill any C nor R mobs for 30 days, putting you 4-5 months from ALL of your next R mobs to get a SINGLE C mob, instead of just waiting another 3-4 months for ALL of your R mobs again. Why would a guild (especially the R's, who are still gearing mains) trade a single mob "on-demand" for an extra month to get 12? And that's only when the stars align and they move C when:
1) they are at the bottom of the lists for all rotation mobs
2) The mob they want is C
3) Its a repop and not a normal spawn C

If the guild is nearly up for other R targets, then they'd be waiting even LONGER than 3-4 months because now you include the time they've already been waiting for their turn to come around again (ie: they are 2 months into CT they get every 3-4 months, now it'll be 6-7 months between CTs unless CT is the specific C-mob they killed to enter C).

Getting into C isn't the issue, its the additional penalty you are trying to tack on to leave C, which has always been the issue.

[Daldaen]

Hell I think Class C taking 1 month to leave is pretty extensive.

After 2-3 respawns you will easily see if your socks have equivalent death and your neckbeards equivalent length.

Presently no Class R guild comes close to them. Taken is the only one regularly contesting FFA spawns and that occurs on about 50% of FFA spawns, and only on specific mobs during specific favorable time windows. Weekends help for sure but even on weekends we aren't doing 4 AM spawns. Perhaps at the very end of a window if it didn't spawn and people are still up but.. That's about it.

[Phats]

The server has no rule regarding the class R rotation list. Your assumption of 4-5 months could be incorrect. Whose to say the guild rejoining Class R does not get back their old rotation spots?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Phats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The server has no rule regarding the class R rotation list. Your assumption of 4-5 months could be incorrect. Whose to say the guild rejoining Class R does not get back their old rotation spots?

Are you an officer in a Class R guild? Cause I'm pretty sure they are the only ones who have a full understanding of how the rotation works. The logical assumption would be new guilds go to the end. Even if you were formerly in the rotation.

Which makes your concern about exploiting it moot.

Chest, weigh in on your prized creation. What say yee about a guild coming back into R?

[Erati]

Getting back the rotation spots would be kinda unfair however I could easily see the guild trying to return to R being met with lots of venom and thusly at that point maybe saying ehhhh no rotation

this is tricky for sure, Guilds that choose to become C should be doing it because they actually want to be there n try it, not to snipe 1 extra VS/Trak or whatever then twiddle thumbs to scoot back into rotation

1 month cool down seems reasonable and can even put in something that disallows the same guild from engaging a C mob for additional 2 months after so they cannot repeat same process