Variance, the raid scene and the coming of Velious

[Xadion]

Hello to the p99 community.

I have been around forever, I have been fairly active in the raid scene for many a year and have seen many sides, many issues and a ton of back stabbing, rule manipulation and other fun stuff that is the history of this server.

To those that think that any one guild currently is "responsible" for the "current state of the raid scene" - you are poorly mistaken.

Its not "the current" its the forever-been raid scene of this server and 90% of the classic servers- to those that came from "Carebear" or "rotation" servers - do understand that is not the norm on live, nor the norm for the cutting edge guilds servers on live etc... and most of the "raid minded" population on p99 come from the non rotation-minded servers and population.

Where we are today is from people wanting to be the best, stay the best and see victory- and from what I have seen over the years there are two forces- IB and their counter forces that have merged and changed over the server history- such as DA Fusion and now TMO.

The struggle always puts someone on top, even if its a small margin, and those below fight, push and usually manipulate (the staff, the population etc.) into gaining an advantage to try and overtake whatever side is currently on top.

This struggle is not going to go away ever, unless competition is destroyed by the staff and either one primary guild is handed the keys- or everything is handed out by whatever random system "the community" creates that in the end just ends up saying "put it no effort get X mobs...or well put in effort get X+1" rather than let competition sort things out.

Another factor is that many "casual" people are hitting the "max" of gear, level, and stuff to do because we have been at kunark so long- they then look to see what "more" there is- and cannot enter the raid scene because of whatever reasons...they then think back "I was casual on live, yet I got to kill raid mobs every now and then!" and it was true...but what era?

Classic and Kunark really supply low levels of raid content when you compare it to what Velious has to offer.

---------here is my idea and 'solution' to the issues...come velious-----------

To me, variance hurts the "lower" guilds, they do not have the time, players etc to do the tracking required nor the response time needed to then get on and engage those mobs.

We do not need any more of a complex engagement system other than FTE - if anything we need some leapfrog rules- but ANY time you start to make those you slip back into "what’s a force" and "well my 12man team can kill X mob but we take forever to clear there- so that 40man force should just sit there and wait." etc etc etc

Variance does not help the lower guilds as it places mobs more at a -one-at-a-time- spawn cycle.

Why are "server repops" so nice? because there are parallel spawns- large variances like we have (not classic) hinder parallel spawns.

With the introduction of Velious most of the high end raiding priority targets will shift to Velious, keeping epic gods in the crosshairs as well as one or two in VP. If mobs are kept in a current type of rotation targets will get into a one at a time spawn cycle- again allowing one or two large guilds always make those spawns and take them out

If the variance is removed, or lessened with no extensions etc come velious we will see more parallel mob spawns- couple that with the need to clear and increased encounter time commitment we should see the availability of other spawns to more guilds at more times through the normal spawn cycle.

Example: Server repoped Friday and everything was killed within 3-4 hours with both the large guilds and many smaller guilds taking down the entire raid mob population.

come respawn time - yes we know everything is going to spawn... but if you are sitting there ready to do the AoW cycle you have dedicated to that time frame, then Dain spawns... you then must finish or abandon what you started and move and prep to Dain- all the while all other timers are starting to go off and spawn... etc etc

I believe a small 4 hour or so window is all we will need in velious- coupled with the number or raid mobs and the increased time commitment on average per raid target- with the current server rules things will work out.

Changes to rules I feel still need some work is the FTE delay tactics- this includes "pulling" a mob to the "camp" Velious has some huge zones... one could "pull" sont to the SG zoneline as a legit "camp area" and it would take quite a while- 2ish minutes should allow any mob to be pulled, and yes this would mean we would have to adjust where we pull some mobs to etc.

Sont shouts FTE = X of Guild = Y

2-3 or whatever min later if not fully engaged (I say having active combat, mob is hitting and getting hit) he will port back to spawn and memwipe...or for more fun have him DT the puller and anyone else on agro and then go port back to spawn :-P

But in reality the rules we have are good, sure there is room for tweaks- but with an adjustment in variance and increase in parallel spawns we all will have a better "raid scene" to look forward to come Velious.

Let’s go Velious!



----------

tl:dr version:

come velious remove variances down to 3 hours

tweak FTE message and FTE delay tactic / pull tactic rules

enjoy mobs

make snow angels in velious

[Swish]

Interesting post and perspective. I think the part about it not being TMO's fault for the current raiding scene is perhaps a bit misguided however. TMO sets the bar and gets most of the targets - so its down to the other guilds to play to that standard or surpass it. Consequently it gets that competitive that there's drama/bitching/raid bans and the like.

A rotation goes counter to that... gives everyone the opportunity to get some dragon pixels, and generally helps the more casual family oriented guilds.

If the top guilds want to rip each other's throats out, that's fine. But remember Rogean's words.... no co-operation, no Velious raid content on release. I'd like to see some keyboard faceroll dragon names in Velious - I'm sure everyone else would too [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Xadion]

TMO by no means made it what it is today, and I didn't really name names for a reason... But being in DA to fight from a nothing guild to contention of 1st in the era just after IB destroyed their first round of computation I have a fairly good perspective on things... I have had friends on both sides, seen shit, seen good peeps come and go.

another thing that needs to be set in stone for a good velious raid scene is a top brass set rule set for raids. Much of the issues throughout the years has been a ruling of X by gm1 to later be overdone with a Y rule by gm2 etc.

[Lune]

What you're not getting is that tracking hurts the 'higher' guilds too, you're just _______ enough to do it anyway.

The fact that cancerous behavior has composed the history of the raid scene does not legitimize further villainy. You don't even need these mobs anymore. Neither do your alts. You've made a lifetime supply of plat depriving people of their epic kills, and then selling them the pieces. Take a break.

[JerSar]

I say just enforce PnP, remove variance completely and that's my opinion.

Here's a song that reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgReweV9AU

[Yinikren]

I am fairly sure that any plan we decide on as a server would revolve around the potential removal of variance. I know my point system does.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that cancerous behavior has composed the history of the raid scene does not legitimize further villainy. You don't even need these mobs anymore. Neither do your alts. You've made a lifetime supply of plat depriving people of their epic kills, and then selling them the pieces. Take a break.

I have a problem with this thought process and rhetoric. Actually, no one in the game "needs" mobs. Everyone "wants" mobs, and I don't think you can really create a "rule" that someone's wants are more important or worthy than another person's wants. Who is one adult to tell another adult they can't play the game as much as they want.

I think the GMs want a fair raid scene, not necessarily an entirely equitable raid scene with even handouts to all guilds. Competition needs to remain, but there needs to be less cutthroat competition with bad sportsmanship.

I'm not sure what fair competition should look like, but I think the attitude in your post is problematic for all players on this server reaching an agreement.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a problem with this thought process and rhetoric. Actually, no one in the game "needs" mobs. Everyone "wants" mobs, and I don't think you can really create a "rule" that someone's wants are more important or worthy than another person's wants. Who is one adult to tell another adult they can't play the game as much as they want.

Because some adults 'want' to pour endless hours into monopolizing content at the cost of everyone else.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. I'm as big of a basement dwelling neckbeard as any and, from time to time, I've played p99 quite religiously. I've been in TMO and other guilds, I've done the batphones, poopsocks, etc.

Guess what? It made me hate the game. It's not worth it. Because of people like them/you/us, anyone who wants mobs is forced to resort to that nonsense. Taken to levels of such excess, I feel it is contrary to the spirit of classic Everquest and detrimental to the soul of the server. It drove me away. I guess I wasn't "dedicated" enough.

It's one thing to compete to mobilize and kill (trivially easy) mobs. It's another to systematically track them for hours at a time, camp out level 60 alts at their spawns, and have it ultimately come down to who throws a javelin at it first. That's competition, but it's miserable for all involved.

What's even more absurd? To do so when you already have one or more of the more coveted epics, yet countless would really like to get their first. So you loot it and sell it to them.

As I said, only some among us are ______ enough to deal with those conditions. I'll let you pick your own adjective.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I was thinking to myself the other day and I came to ask myself.. Are we providing this server to give people the arena to compete to such bitter extremes that it has resorted to taking every absolute measure to be victorious, or are we here to provide a classic Everquest experience for everyone to enjoy?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because some adults 'want' to pour endless hours into monopolizing content at the cost of everyone else.

I'm going to let you in on a (01)________ secret. I'm as big of a (02)________ dwelling neckbeard as any and, from time to time, I've played p99 quite (03)________. I've been in TMO and other guilds, I've done the batphones, poop (04)________, etc.

Guess what? It made me (05)________ the game. It's not worth it. Because of people like them/you/us, anyone who wants (06)________ is forced to resort to that nonsense. Taken to levels of such excess, I feel it is contrary to the spirit of classic (07)________ and detrimental to the (08)________ of the server. It (09)________ me away. I guess I wasn't "(10)________" enough.

It's one thing to compete to (11)________ and kill (trivially easy) mobs. It's another to systematically (12)________ them for hours at a time, camp out level 60 alts at their spawns, and have it ultimately come down to who throws a (13)________ at it first. That's competition, but it's (14)________ for all involved.

What's even more (15)________? To do so when you already have one or more of the more coveted (16)________, yet countless would really like to get their first. So you loot it and sell it to them.

As I said, only some among us are (17)________ enough to deal with those conditions. I'll let you pick your own (18)________.

I made your post into a better Madlib for us to play, hope you don't mind!!

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08. ____________ a noun (singular)
09. ____________ a verb (past tense)
10. ____________ an adjective
11. ____________ a verb (present tense)
12. ____________ a verb (present tense)
13. ____________ a noun (singular)
14. ____________ an adjective
15. ____________ an adjective
16. ____________ a noun (plural)
17. ____________ an adjective
18. ____________ a noun (singular or plural)

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because some adults 'want' to pour endless hours into monopolizing content at the cost of everyone else. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. I'm as big of a basement dwelling neckbeard as any and, from time to time, I've played p99 quite religiously. I've been in TMO and other guilds, I've done the batphones, poopsocks, etc. Guess what? It made me hate the game.

I played in VD for a few months at the begining of 2012 batphoning like a lunatic. It's just not fun. Hence The A-Team.