Mass Pulling in Indoor Dungeons

[thetrueninja12]

The server rules should be altered to specifically combat mass pulling in zones such as BB and CB. As it currently stands, they do not prevent higher levels from (literally) pulling the entire instance (including the ones in your direct vicinity) so long as they ask beforehand to claim camps. This process, I feel is largely arbitrary. For one, it should be largely apparent that a player has the intention of killing mobs within a particular radius of him or her. As such, mass pulling (especially in cases of 5 or more mobs) within the general vicinity of a player should be disallowed. When a player is in combat, it's hard to reply to certain messages or even see them for that matter, and he or she should not be penalized for not doing so in time for something that should be self evident.

Secondly, it's almost impossible to outline a particular area. The fact of the matter is, where a group of spawns end in certain instances are not clearly defined. As a result, players are unable to accurately discern where one camp is from another and, as such, will lead to disputes over territory. A great example of this is BB, where areas don't even have specific names associated with them. How are we, as players, supposed to articulate to others what groups of mobs belong to them if we don't even have names for the areas to call them by?

Lastly and possibly most importantly, camps in outdoor dungeons should not exist in the first place. If players are forced to claim land from, say, a lvl 44 mass pulling bard for instance (we'll just call him Decisive), not only will they be relegated to a much smaller area but it will leave some lower level players with absolutely nothing. The reason being, dungeons are designed to progressively become more and more difficult with higher levelled mobs the deeper it goes. If, for instance, any particular person were to claim the entire initial section of BB, every single lowbie will be forced to leave entirely, as there are no other mobs they can take on realistically. What does this last point have to do with mass pulling, you ask? Because it forces people, including those willing to share, to start taking areas and forcing others out of the instance entirely.

We are a mature community. We should really be beyond such practices that benefit oneself by depriving everyone else. The rules should be designed and reinforced to accommodate those who willing to be mature and considerate, not inhibit them. Even if it's something as small as disallowing people from pulling more than x green mobs, it will undoubtedly make one hell of a difference.

Added bold for those who don't have the time to read such a lengthy post.

[Vadd]

I just experienced this firsthand, although it wasn't mass pulling, it was a player clearing top to bottom with no regard for the 3-5 <lvl15 toons scraping up what mobs they could.

[Swish]

Found this on my rogue the other week. Picked off a few fleeing legionnaires in CB and killed them (got the XP), but there were mobs doing all kinds of freaky shit. By killing part of the train I somehow got social aggro from the royal guard who was also part of it.

LOADING, PLEASE WAIT..

[Swish]

Originally Posted by thetrueninja12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

camps in outdoor dungeons should not exist in the first place

What about Hadden? Or the AC?

[Thulack]

Camps should exist everywhere. If someone is sitting at a mobs spawn point then its camped.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Camps should exist everywhere. If someone is sitting at a mobs spawn point then its camped.

And this IS the server rule, basically.

A lot of people seem to remember how things were in 1999-2000 when groups killed more slowly and players were as/more concerned with just slaughtering trash as they were with picking off named PHs, though. These people play on p99 thinking that asking for and responding to camp checks is mandatory. They think that not responding to a CC forfeits your camp. They think that a group who can't kill all of the mobs in a camp (camp meaning CoM stables or MM castle entrance, etc) can still claim it and not allow other players to pull the mobs that they can't even get to as they spawn.

And the server rules + players who follow them get into spats with the people who remember how things were in 2000 + the PNP.


It sounds to me like the OP ran into an issue with powerleveling in a popular zone and that he should have addressed his complaint as such, but instead he tried to expand his issue to camps and pulling in general.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this IS the server rule, basically.

A lot of people seem to remember how things were in 1999-2000 when groups killed more slowly and players were as/more concerned with just slaughtering trash as they were with picking off named PHs, though. These people play on p99 thinking that asking for and responding to camp checks is mandatory. They think that not responding to a CC forfeits your camp. They think that a group who can't kill all of the mobs in a camp (camp meaning CoM stables or MM castle entrance, etc) can still claim it and not allow other players to pull the mobs that they can't even get to as they spawn.

And the server rules + players who follow them get into spats with the people who remember how things were in 2000 + the PNP.


It sounds to me like the OP ran into an issue with powerleveling in a popular zone and that he should have addressed his complaint as such, but instead he tried to expand his issue to camps and pulling in general.

Unless the other servers were different, camps are pure classic. Think about it: some classes need a spot to be able to med, which used to mean, opening yer spellbook. Constantly moving around as a group was never all that feasible, and certainly not the norm. The group runs out of mana.

This was one of the good design elements of eq, I thought. You have to find those locations in a dungeon where you can take a "med break" but also where you of course have mobs to pull once everyone is gtg. Shit's pure classic.

What else was classic was some other group trying to inch up on your "camp" or try to leapfrog you to get closer to where you were pulling from. This is where the PNP always came in: that is just, not nice to do that.

We all know these things. And I agree with tecmos, this is not about camps per se, but about powerlevling toons.

Since during live I was "leveling with the server" I never really experienced this problem; who could have powerleveled? There were no high level characters at that time: we at the top of the lvl heap *were* the high level characters.

The only time this became an issue is when ae groups became popular. I used to dominate fungus grove shrooms with an ae grp, for example.

On hindsight, I think we were flirting with violating the PNP. Because really, once an ae grp would get set up, forget about being a normal group killing in that entire area.

Powerleveling and ae grps need to be, as a rule, second in importance to "normal" grps. That would be my take. I am not planning on doing ae grps on p99 for this reason, except during off hours.

cuz I'm awesomely cool.

tl;dr version: don't be a dick to people playing the normal game of grps trying to find a good camp for their appropriate level. Powerlevelers and ae'ers need to step down. PNP

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unless the other servers were different, camps are pure classic. Think about it: some classes need a spot to be able to med, which used to mean, opening yer spellbook. Constantly moving around as a group was never all that feasible, and certainly not the norm. The group runs out of mana.

This was one of the good design elements of eq, I thought. You have to find those locations in a dungeon where you can take a "med break" but also where you of course have mobs to pull once everyone is gtg. Shit's pure classic.

What else was classic was some other group trying to inch up on your "camp" or try to leapfrog you to get closer to where you were pulling from. This is where the PNP always came in: that is just, not nice to do that.

We all know these things. And I agree with tecmos, this is not about camps per se, but about powerlevling toons.

Since during live I was "leveling with the server" I never really experienced this problem; who could have powerleveled? There were no high level characters at that time: we at the top of the lvl heap *were* the high level characters.

The only time this became an issue is when ae groups became popular. I used to dominate fungus grove shrooms with an ae grp, for example.

On hindsight, I think we were flirting with violating the PNP. Because really, once an ae grp would get set up, forget about being a normal group killing in that entire area.

Powerleveling and ae grps need to be, as a rule, second in importance to "normal" grps. That would be my take. I am not planning on doing ae grps on p99 for this reason, except during off hours.

cuz I'm awesomely cool.

tl;dr version: don't be a dick to people playing the normal game of grps trying to find a good camp for their appropriate level. Powerlevelers and ae'ers need to step down. PNP

One of your better posts. Yeah I gave up Pling people once the server hit say 500 people nearly a year ago. Just not fair to others taking half a zone of the good mobs for one person to twink themselves. But I can sort of see why people want to get higher fast on a alt. No real good answer I guess other than getting Velious out. Would help a lot. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this IS the server rule, basically.

A lot of people seem to remember how things were in 1999-2000 when groups killed more slowly and players were as/more concerned with just slaughtering trash as they were with picking off named PHs, though. These people play on p99 thinking that asking for and responding to camp checks is mandatory. They think that not responding to a CC forfeits your camp. They think that a group who can't kill all of the mobs in a camp (camp meaning CoM stables or MM castle entrance, etc) can still claim it and not allow other players to pull the mobs that they can't even get to as they spawn.

And the server rules + players who follow them get into spats with the people who remember how things were in 2000 + the PNP.


It sounds to me like the OP ran into an issue with powerleveling in a popular zone and that he should have addressed his complaint as such, but instead he tried to expand his issue to camps and pulling in general.

[BillyCranston]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They think that a group who can't kill all of the mobs in a camp (camp meaning CoM stables or MM castle entrance, etc) can still claim it and not allow other players to pull the mobs that they can't even get to as they spawn.

Hey asshat, just because a group can't kill less than 33% of the "camp's" mobs, doesn't mean a god damn thing, except to assholes like you. So you're saying that a group camping out in any given place should have to clear every mob at every instant they spawn, or else you can come in and blow a wad in Frodo's mouth?

'WELL GUYS YOU LEFT ONE MOB UP, CLEARLY YOU HAVE FORFEITED YOUR CAMP BECAUSE YOU ARE UNABLE TO CLEAR ALL THE MOBS, EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY HAVE CHOSEN TO LEAVE SAID MOBS."

You are a prime example of the backwards ass and acidic mindset most of this server has. A bunch of pricks who never got anywhere in EQ1 before and are hell bent on reliving things you thought were worth looking up to 10 years ago, talk about midlife crisis. 'WE CAN'T LET PEOPLE HAVE FUN! PART OF THE DOUCHEBAGS I USED TO LOOK UP TO WERE ALL ABOUT DENYING EVERYONE ELSE ANY FUN OR IMAGINARY ITEMS THAT DON'T REALLY BENEFIT YOUR CHARACTER!'