Spells: Low Level Charm

Striiker · #1 06-16-2010, 03:25 PM

There is an ongoing discussion presently regarding the low level enchanter charms and how they are quite ineffective at lower levels.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9784

I contributed my experiences to that thread and wanted to mention it in the bugs section as this is most certainly broken. Charm at lower levels does not work anywhere close to what it did in classic (far from it). When I was leveling up my enchanter on live in early 2000, I was able to charm the various beetles and griffawns in North Karana and have my charm last close to max duration most often and frequently for the maximum duration. When I tried this on P1999, I found charm barely lasting more than a few seconds. I should note that my enchanter on P1999 and my enchanter on Live are identical in terms of race and statistics. This was sufficiently broken in that I gave up on charm and made use of my animation pet instead (far less enjoyable / effective).
I hope that this could get some development attention when time permits.

**Ropethunder** · #2 06-16-2010, 06:12 PM

Despite having 201 charm at level 12, I had charm breaking randomly and at short durations when charming greens, blues, and light blues. I always tashed first.

Lazortag · #3 06-16-2010, 08:56 PM

How long is charm "supposed" to last? What about for Bards? I'm very curious. Also some evidence would be great as this might make my bard even better.

Dersk · #4 06-16-2010, 10:26 PM

There are two different types of bard charm. The first one bards get lasts only three ticks and is mana-free. Higher level bard charms cost mana but can last over a minute.

Charm is "supposed" to last on average longer than what people are reporting here. Resist calculations have changed since launch, but given the relatively low resists on most classic mobs, tash plus a level difference generally made charm effective and max-duration charms could at least be seen. Instant breaks were always possible, but an average of less than 30s on anything that isn't extremely magic resistant is simply wrong.

Malrubius · #5 06-16-2010, 11:57 PM

Yeah, Chanter charm would usually last for awhile for dark blues even if your CHA wasn't all that great, as long as you Tashed first.

Instant or near-instant breaks were very memorable because they were very rare.

My GUESS is that the chance for charm to break was something like 1-2% per tick. In that case, at 1%, the charm would break, on average, after 50 ticks - or 5:00 minutes. At 2%, 2:30. And so on.

-Lower level mobs would *hugely* lower the percentage chance for charm to break per tick.
-Lowering MR (tash) would *significantly* lower the percentage chance for charm to break per tick.
-Raising CHA would *somewhat* lower the percentage chance for charm to break per tick.

These are averages of course, which is why charm could theoretically break on the first tick, or never break until the spell wears off.

Those are only guesstimates of course, and I pulled the percentages out of my butt - but it's leagues closer to classic than the current implementation.

Striiker · #6 06-17-2010, 09:16 AM

I just wanted to also note that the issue with charm apparently does not exist at higher levels as it functions exactly as I remember it on live. This is based upon anecdotal evidence submitted in the discussions by higher level enchanters here on P1999. They are getting full / near full duration charms. (I also was getting very long duration charms in my upper levels with my Enchanter on live.)

So, there's some calculation which is considerably off from where it should be for charm at lower levels. I don't know if this is associated with the spell itself or with the creatures at this level range. I am about to hit lvl 24 and get Beguile (our next spell in the charm line). I'll see how it works compared to my experiences at lvl 12 - 16 when I was trying to charm as I had on live.

cerasa · #7 06-17-2010, 03:01 PM

I hit 24 yesterday and hoped that beguile would be better than the level 4 charm. I charmed an aviak in Lake R and fought an add, then ran over to another camp with him. So I guess the charm lasted about 1 1/2 to 2 minutes for a dark blue. Is that about how long it should last?

Dersk · #8 06-17-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerasa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I guess the charm lasted about 1 1/2 to 2 minutes for a dark blue. Is that about how long it should last?

The duration of one charm is wholly insufficient information.

redghosthunter · #9 06-17-2010, 03:46 PM

My experience with charm was .... holly hell i am sure getting a good workout with all this running. It did get better much later. My advice would be find a good group hang out in back till ya got some lvls on ya.

And yes Charm was nurfed. It was not like this for the people who started on the server. This discussion has been had many many times. If you do some digging you will see threads about charm and charm changed to dependent on resistance first and CHA second.

Striiker · #10 06-18-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redghosthunter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My experience with charm was .... holly hell i am sure getting a good workout with all this running. It did get better much later. My advice would be find a good group hang out in back till ya got some lvls on ya.

And yes Charm was nurfed. It was not like this for the people who started on the server. This discussion has been had many many times. If you do some digging you will see threads about charm and charm changed to dependent on resistance first and CHA second.

I do love grouping, believe me! I prefer it far above soloing. That said, I sometimes don't have a huge block of time to commit to a group (2 hrs +) so I get some game time in soloing.

Regarding the charm nerf, I do not understand why this was done as this was not the way charm at lower level worked in classic and it is my understanding that the aim of the server is to be as true as possible to classic (the good and the bad). It appears that charm DOES work on the server as intended, but only for higher level charm and mobs. Low level is quite frankly, broken and not at all classic. I am not here to bitch and moan and demand that the volunteer devs drop everything to address this issue. I wanted to submit it as a bug and respectfully ask that it be added to the 'to do' list. (I made the mistake of assuming that problems I see have been submitted as a bug before, only to learn that it wasn't) It will not benefit me as I will have leveled and no longer have these issues. It would however benefit those who follow. I guess that when they launch a new server in a few years, it would benefit me as I would love to go through life as a new enchanter on a new world once again. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]