To the devs

[Razdeline]

Have you all thought about making your own game?

I have been thinking lately that the next big mmo (if there ever is one due to market saturation), would be something that harbors mechanics similar to the original Everquest era.

Perhaps something with the exact same mechanics, utilized with an updated physics engine and graphics. I know of a few free engines one could use to make something like this possible.

The hardest part of creation would obviously be money, but maybe even doing it the same way they did it back then and find people that are extremely passionate about something like this. Would need a team of artists, few programmers, designers, writers, etc etc. Maybe even find people that would work for free.

The thing is, Everquest was immersive on a grandiose scale. Certain things like corpse runs, no maps, no global chat channels, player required teleportation; forced the game to make people socialize. We all know this.

I mean, we all don't need to be psychologists to understand what drew us here, and the big question is-- why hasn't anyone (in the industry) done this yet?

[Roth]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have you all thought about making your own game?

I have been thinking lately that the next big mmo (if there ever is one due to market saturation), would be something that harbors mechanics similar to the original Everquest era.

Perhaps something with the exact same mechanics, utilized with an updated physics engine and graphics. I know of a few free engines one could use to make something like this possible.

The hardest part of creation would obviously be money, but maybe even doing it the same way they did it back then and find people that are extremely passionate about something like this. Would need a team of artists, few programmers, designers, writers, etc etc. Maybe even find people that would work for free.

The thing is, Everquest was immersive on a grandiose scale. Certain things like corpse runs, no maps, no global chat channels, player required teleportation; forced the game to make people socialize. We all know this.

I mean, we all don't need to be psychologists to understand what drew us here, and the big question is-- why hasn't anyone (in the industry) done this yet?

Money.

[Razdeline]

How do indie games form and be successful then. I wonder what type of people invest in things like this. (use league of legends for example, it was an indie company starting, and the CEO's first business venture. He hit a grand slam the first try)

[Roth]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do indie games form and be successful then. I wonder what type of people invest in things like this. (use league of legends for example, it was an indie company starting, and the CEO's first business venture. He hit a grand slam the first try)

Okay, to kind of show you what you're asking, why don't you yourself make a game? Hire devs, programmers, set up a website and recruit people. It should be possible as long as you have a concept. Secondly, league of legends isn't really indie I don't think, at least not at its core.

Lastly, people have tried. Just these games are buggy and secondly people don't really know what they want. People don't make an "eq"... they make games like darkfall that are supposed to be as hardcore sandboxes as can be. That's not really what made classic eq what it was. The corpse runs and all that added something yes but it was mostly the feel of the world and the fact that it had a heart. It's hard to recreate that feel and heart without both passion and funding together.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have you all thought about making your own game?

I have been thinking lately that the next big mmo (if there ever is one due to market saturation), would be something that harbors mechanics similar to the original Everquest era.

Perhaps something with the exact same mechanics, utilized with an updated physics engine and graphics. I know of a few free engines one could use to make something like this possible.

The hardest part of creation would obviously be money, but maybe even doing it the same way they did it back then and find people that are extremely passionate about something like this. Would need a team of artists, few programmers, designers, writers, etc etc. Maybe even find people that would work for free.

The thing is, Everquest was immersive on a grandiose scale. Certain things like corpse runs, no maps, no global chat channels, player required teleportation; forced the game to make people socialize. We all know this.

I mean, we all don't need to be psychologists to understand what drew us here, and the big question is-- why hasn't anyone (in the industry) done this yet?

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do indie games form and be successful then. I wonder what type of people invest in things like this. (use league of legends for example, it was an indie company starting, and the CEO's first business venture. He hit a grand slam the first try)

I'm glad your brain finally had a thought, but just stick to making the fries.

Remember, I like them golden brown.

[Razdeline]

League is and was, a small company starting. Some of the key developers worked on Defense of the Ancients, broke off and did their own gig.

I think if I were to make a game with lack of funding I have for such an adventure, I would need to know and trust a large group of talented people in this field... and I lack that as well. I wonder if people on p99, for example, would donate to such a cause?

I did think about what you said Roth, but what im aiming for with this conversation is to see who harbors similar thoughts!

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have you all thought about making your own game?

I have been thinking lately that the next big mmo (if there ever is one due to market saturation), would be something that harbors mechanics similar to the original Everquest era.

Perhaps something with the exact same mechanics, utilized with an updated physics engine and graphics. I know of a few free engines one could use to make something like this possible.

The hardest part of creation would obviously be money, but maybe even doing it the same way they did it back then and find people that are extremely passionate about something like this. Would need a team of artists, few programmers, designers, writers, etc etc. Maybe even find people that would work for free.

The thing is, Everquest was immersive on a grandiose scale. Certain things like corpse runs, no maps, no global chat channels, player required teleportation; forced the game to make people socialize. We all know this.

I mean, we all don't need to be psychologists to understand what drew us here, and the big question is-- why hasn't anyone (in the industry) done this yet?

Aside from the large amount of time and money it takes to produce an MMO, which really can't be overstated, you will have problems producing something for a niche market. Look at this server, its a free game whose population has never hit anything like the 2k mark. You would need around 800 monthly subscriptions just to pay for the cost of your lead developer. I point this out because indie projects that turn into large commercial organizations end up having to have real full time staff.

Everquest was very successful because at the time it was produced there was nothing else at its level so they had time to produce a lot of the features that are expected at launch of an MMO. Alot of MMOs that are backed by big bucks fail now a days because there is so much content necessary when starting from scratch. Read up on what just happened with Curt (now) Schillingless.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it is a (forgive the pun) massive undertaking. Even the amount of time and money you spend on Artist and Animators would make your eyes explode [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Consider that with all the work done on EQEmu and P99 the models and maps were something that they had from the begining.

All that said it is something I still think about regularly. If I was in charge of such a project I think there is a good chance I would approach the Devs here about employement because I think they have done some impressive work.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aside from the large amount of time and money it takes to produce an MMO, which really can't be overstated, you will have problems producing something for a niche market. Look at this server, its a free game whose population has never hit anything like the 2k mark. You would need around 800 monthly subscriptions just to pay for the cost of your lead developer. I point this out because indie projects that turn into large commercial organizations end up having to have real full time staff.

Everquest was very successful because at the time it was produced there was nothing else at its level so they had time to produce a lot of the features that are expected at launch of an MMO. Alot of MMOs that are backed by big bucks fail now a days because there is so much content necessary when starting from scratch. Read up on what just happened with Curt (now) Schillingless.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it is a (forgive the pun) massive undertaking. Even the amount of time and money you spend on Artist and Animators would make your eyes explode [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Consider that with all the work done on EQEmu and P99 the models and maps were something that had from the begining.

All that said it is something I still think about regularly. If I was in charge of such a project I think there is a good chance I would approach the Devs here about employement because I think they have done some impressive work.

Very good post and something I was thinking about as well. When EQ happened it was at the right place at the right time.

[Roth]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

League is and was, a small company starting. Some of the key developers worked on Defense of the Ancients, broke off and did their own gig.

I think if I were to make a game with lack of funding I have for such an adventure, I would need to know and trust a large group of talented people in this field... and I lack that as well. I wonder if people on p99, for example, would donate to such a cause?

I did think about what you said Roth, but what im aiming for with this conversation is to see who harbors similar thoughts!

Well, I'll tell you for me personally what makes eq special and why I'm back here. There are a few things I think that make eq special(in it's original incarnation).

- lack of direction... you don't really have any goals or guidance. you're just dropped in a world and sent off to do things
- A world that feels huge and makes you feel small... the difficulty of travel makes it feel like you're on a journey and going to far off lands really feels like an adventure. It also gives each area of eq a unique identity
-danger and fear... I think the fact that you feel like you're doing something hard and challenging makes it feel more exciting and fun. You feel more involved in the world. Soloing in eq is only fun because you're not really meant to solo... in other games soloing sucks.
-the social aspect and depending on others... the grouping aspect of this game is fun because it gives permanence and value to your experience and makes you feel part of a world. This is why I believe cross server grouping doesn't really work in other games because you don't really have that sense of community and your character's place in it. With a heavy grouping game, even at low levels you still feel like you're part of the server and what's going on. In top heavy solo games leveling feels like a chore since it just feels like it doesn't matter.
-Last but most importantly, the imperfection... The fact that everything in eq is unpredictable and difficult to solve and being creative can help you is what makes it have a certain feel. Too often in newer mmos everything is so solvable and predictable and everything just makes too much sense. Sometimes you need a random red named kos con walking through lowbie zones because it makes you unsure of what to expect. Everything being too perfect ruins most new games.

Notice I never said difficulty ever directly mattered. So many people when they design an "eq" mmo say ok, let's make this game as hardcore as possible, we want corpse runs, no binding, perma death, full loot, ffa pvp... it's endless. This is not really what eq is about. Sometimes those things indirectly lead to making eq fun but I quit many times just because of corpse runs and exp loss and zoning... I'm not that hardcore apparently, because those things can become too frustrating really quickly. Personally I don't care about the challenge. I just want the feel. If a game company wants to make an eq style mmo and be successful, they need to make it easy to get into while still somehow retaining the aspects that makes a game feel special.

[gprater]

I think he has a good idea whether its possible or not....but Ill be the developers are glad to see they have so many proxies to help them reply to threads/.