Experience Penalties...

[stormlord]

I thought this was interesting:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

I will not make an exhaustive post. It's too much to consider on my (at present) limited time.

But... Rangers ARE better at soloing than a warrior. I compared equal level ranger/warrior in a solo situation against the same mob with similar equipment. It was no comparison. The warrior failed miserably. But is this compensated in a group situation? Yes, somewhat. A ranger's abilities are more redundant in a group. So his big advantages are reduced. The warrior has more hp and better damage mitigation. A warrior is highly sought after because of his specialization, whereas, a ranger is just a grunt to fill for dps'ers. So, ignoring a ranger's utility, assuming that it's a large group, why would anyone choose a ranger over a monk or rogue or wizard? Without the utility, a ranger is just a inferior form of dps.

Assuming a max of +/- 4 for valued ability effectiveness:
Ranger abilites:
# solo
# group
# other
Warrior abilities:
# solo
# group
# other

It would look something like that. So after doing the math, would the answer suggest that rangers need an experience penalty? Are they overpowered?

I'm fine with the experience penalty. I've always felt that rangers, overall, are better than warriors and other group-classes. Not because rangers are valued more in groups, but because I do a fair share of soloing and having things like tracking or sow or superior camo or a damage shield is a big bonus no matter what I do. And if I want to make money, a ranger is better at doing that than a warrior because of DS and solo-capability.

Like it or not, even warriors will try to solo on occasion and even prefer to sometimes.

I think this is a very subjective matter. Personally, I do not like the hard class system used in everquest. It cannot absorb balancing errors very well. It doesn't encourage the kind of non-linear things I like. Generally, EQ has tried to have non-linear things but they don't fit very well with it because of its nature.

I prefer skill-based games that allow you to more quickly change skills. My pet theory is that a resource-based reward system wherein rewards (like experience, items, etc) are finite and replenished over time would be a better system for non-linear gameplay, as it would have the ability to absorb game-balancing errors by preventing them from being excessively exploited. For example, if you found out that you could trap a non-player in a door frame and kill it without any danger then this reward system would decrease what you receive from the kills after each successive kill. Eventually, you would get 0 reward from killing it. If you moved to a new creature you would get more reward, but it's dependent on other factors too. If the skill you use is overpowered then it's absorbed better by the system because: a) players can change their skill-set more rapidly to have hte skills that work well - so as not to be stuck with inferior skills b) if you kill things super fast, you will eventually deplete them and have to move to a new area. I'm sure these ideas can be evolved much further. I've only begun to even think about this system. It came to mind a while back. It made me wonder: if this is indeed true, might this suggest that our universe is protective against exploitation because of its finiteness?

How can you exploit something if it stops giving? That's my point.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Well hybrid Xp penalties were the most stupid idea in initial game design.
Verant designed a game where half of the classes were ultra specialized, while other half were "jack of all trades" but good at nothing.

Their idea was that pure classes will group and raid, while the other half will solo. This of course ultimately fail, cause game obviously proven non solo friendly from any reasonable perspective, other than extreme grinding boredom

However, at the same time, classes like necros or mages who were UBER at soloing, did not had such a MAD XP penalty like hybrids did.
Verant finally realized this, albeit 2 years later, and removed Xp penalties in Velious era.

Another thing - the design concept where some classes sacrifice their combat potential for cash-generating abilities is DEGENERATE beyond believe. This approach leads to EVERYONE making cash generating char first, getting ton of cash and then twinking the hell out of their combat character, instead of legibly playing them.

Please do give druids and wizards self ports as a "travel bonus", but do not allow them to turn it into unlimited source of income - aka do not give them group ports. Or make group ports cost an insanely expensive reagent so they can only afford it if their guilds pays for it for some sort of guild emergency. So approach to buffs. Enchanters should not be able making shit load of plat by sitting in place whole day casting Clarity.

This is why I keep praising EQ2, where buffs you can cast, act as "auras", and only affect your group - if person joins the group - he gets buffed, if he leaves, buff stays behind.

[Mardur]

Yes, Rangers are over-powered.

[citizen1080]

eq2 was crap ^^

[Lazortag]

Bards and pet classes are probably the only classes that deserve an exp penalty.

[Awwalike]

Originally Posted by Mardur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, Rangers are over-powered.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Doors]

What gayguy said.

[Xanthias]

Originally Posted by Mardur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, Rangers are over-powered.

uh huh....

[Palemoon]

Ok, another thread about the class xp penalties, so I will ask yet again. IS it planned that the class penalties will be removed in velious on p99?

I ask because then one must decide... play a hybrid now and take 40 percent more xp to level up or wait for velious and level the hybrid without the penalty to himself and his group.

Or has it not been commented on yet by a dev?

I'm fine either way, I just do not want to feel like a fool when a day after I ding 60 on say.. a ranger, I read a patch note that says the penalty is now gone.

[Kika Maslyaka]

If devs follow classic timeline to the letter, then Xp penalties must be removed.
Of course this will happen AT LEAST a YEAR from now. You have time to level up all 3 hybrids to 60, get bored and stop playing.