To the R99 Staff and Players -

Sirken · #1 08-26-2011, 03:23 PM

I'm not going to post in 7 different threads that are already filled up with crap, arguments, and opinions from people that have no idea what they are talking about, or are trying to get the rules crafted to better suit their play style. Here's just a couple things I’ve noticed over my years on the VZTZ server, feel free to flame, argue, disagree, etc. im not gonna go tit for tat with you guys, because, well you know what they say about opinions.

As far as PvP deaths – I have played item loot (VZ EQLive) and I have been a GM during item loot. While it’s fun, there will be players that use this to grief people off the server. Yes I understand that its as easy as /q’ing out and waiting, as opposed to running back, looting, and getting ganked again, but I learned long ago not to assume things from the playerbase. Basically item loot will hurt the population, period. XP loss for pvp deaths will be exploited the same way.. just wait til someone goes AFK at their bindspot and is murdered down 6-8 levels, once again this is begging people to quit the server. Coin Loot must stay in the game, if for no other reason that when we go PKing in RL, we do it to take our victims coins (as well as any ATM/Debit cards). It’s a small little satisfaction that doesn’t hurt anyone to the point of rage quitting. But, if people are hell bent on item loot, try it in the very beginning, and do NOT just add it to the server later after it’s been established.

Loot and Scoot (LNS) – Let the community work this out. VZTZ staff tried MANY different variations of LNS rules, and while some worked better than others, they all ultimately failed. After tons of failure, I pulled a couple guild leaders into staff vent, and made them hammer out LnS rules that they both thought were fair, and that could easily be enforced. On live, the server populations were large enough that the community could effectively punish people for being griefing douchebags, however the R99 population may not be as large as live servers were, which means the community would not be able to stop certain guilds from acting any kinda way they wanted. Again, the ONLY time I’ve seen LNS work on emu was when the server’s top guild leaders got together and hammered something out together that they both could agree on (NOTE to staff- by doing this you are able to hold guild leaders and officers responsible for the actions of their members. So if randomplayer001 is caught violating the rules, feel free to suspend guild leadership as well as the original offender. Trust me, Guild leaders will get their members acting right if they can be suspended for the actions of their members).

Zone Plugging – its lame, but, it’s also classic. Imo, just don’t let the guy hit the zone. But real life isn’t that simple, I think if Rogean could indeed add something that forces the player to pop out LD on the other side it would be a superb addition to the R99 server. People were going on about “plugging to avoid YT” well this is true, it’s the least important side effect. People will be plugging mostly to avoid any possible LnS, to ensure that they are not out of the fight. But let’s make sure LD toons don’t go all GOD MODE when in LD form.

Playnice (training, BC, BR, griefing) – Training is retarded, Training is not pvp, Training does not take skill. Any young drunken monkey can train mobs.. hell if u give me 10 min, I’m sure I could teach my dog to train PoF right now. Dear R99 Staff, when u see trains, please use the biggest heaviest banhammer around to crack the needed skulls, I assure you it will help protect the population. As far as BindCamping and BindRushing… well that’s a slippery slope pals. I used to think BC/BR wasn’t a big deal either, and then I watched a guild vs guild fight for zone control over lady vox. GuildA was getting slaughtered by GuildB, however GuildA just kept bindrushing the fight for HOURS. GuildB was forced to repeatedly kill the same players over and over and over and over again for literally fuckingpullmyhairout hours. GuildB had in my opinion won the fight HOURS before, yet GuildA continued to rush just as a means to prevent GuildB from attempting their mob. THAT is not PvP, that’s just bindrushing. We tried a lot of ways to prevent BR/BC on VZTZ, however if a GM wasn’t on, a player would usually try to later lawyer the rules around to justify his or his guildies’ actions. I strongly suggest that the best way to deal with BC/BR is to not make a rule against it per say, but to make a rule stating that “any actions deemed detrimental to the server, it’s population of players and/or staff, are always considered against the rules and will result in your account being banned from the server” this will allow you to take each one on a case by case basis so the GM can see if the sketchy actions were actually warranted (recently killed players will try to bait and try to lure their killers into re-attacking them simply to petition that player for BCing, in hopes to get him banned).

PvP level Range – Well I think +/- 8 levels is perfect, and if Rogean can add that system he was describing, it sounds like nobody will have to worry about immy healing (which btw, was a very real and viable tactic used by dirty crossteamers on EQLive Vallon Zek (and I assume Tallon Zek). On A Side Note, if its possible to remove the pvp level range around Dragons and highly contested raid mobs, I strongly suggest doing so. The reason for this is because as GuildA preps for Supermob001, GuildB will either send a level 1 cleric to DA train OR GuildB will send a level 1 Rogue to spy on GuildA and watch them. This happened all the time on VZTZ.

Global OOC / Yellow Text – Global OOC is/was/will be a bad idea, just as it was on VZTZ. I know a lot of people “play for the ooc” but imo, that’s not how u play EQ, and the rest of the server generally doesn’t give a shit, sorry pals, take it to tells, or, grow a pair of balls and go to the zone with your enemies and talk shit to them in the zone. Global OOC had to be turned off LOTSA times for various reasons (garbage content, extreme spam to try and crash the players, etc), Furthermore there were quite a few players on VZTZ that had their OOC privileges revoked. ATTN PLAYERS, remember OOC is like a drivers license, IT’S A PRIVLEGE, NOT A RIGHT. As far as Yellow Text goes – firstly STAFF, you WANT to be able to see zone wide yellow text so you know exactly when and where PvP is popping off, and exactly where to go and who to watch at a moment’s notice. As far as Yellow Text for players, yes.

Punishment – just make it count. Over on VZTZ we did lots of suspensions and we did a lot of bans. Suspensions and Bans didn’t matter because on VZTZ all u needed was a new IP address and u could level a new account to 60 in a week.

P.S. - Lastly, keep the XP exactly like p99. Mid level pvp is FUN and it didn’t exist on VZTZ, but furthermore, bans will mean A LOT more when it takes months to get to 60, when it takes more months to get that uber item.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

<3
Sirks

TL;DR – Sirken acting all knowledgeable... again

hagard · #2 08-26-2011, 03:25 PM

Sirken ! hope to see you around red99 in some form

God-King Abacab · #3 08-26-2011, 03:32 PM

Sirken drunk on power

Smedy · #4 08-26-2011, 03:33 PM

Pretty much sums up all my opinions [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Harrison · #5 08-26-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to post in 7 different threads that are already filled up with crap, arguments, and opinions from people that have no idea what they are talking about, or are trying to get the rules crafted to better suit their play style. Here's just a couple things I’ve noticed over my years on the VZTZ server, feel free to flame, argue, disagree, etc. im not gonna go tit for tat with you guys, because, well you know what they say about opinions.

As far as PvP deaths – I have played item loot (VZ EQLive) and I have been a GM during item loot. While it’s fun, there will be players that use this to grief people off the server. Yes I understand that its as easy as /q’ing out and waiting, as opposed to running back, looting, and getting ganked again, but I learned long ago not to assume things from the playerbase. Basically item loot will hurt the population, period. XP loss for pvp deaths will be exploited the same way.. just wait til someone goes AFK at their bindspot and is murdered down 6-8 levels, once again this is begging people to quit the server. Coin Loot must stay in the game, if for no other reason that when we go PKing in RL, we do it to take our victims coins (as well as any ATM/Debit cards). It’s a small little satisfaction that doesn’t hurt anyone to the point of rage quitting. But, if people are hell bent on item loot, try it in the very beginning, and do NOT just add it to the server later after it’s been established.

Loot and Scoot (LNS) – Let the community work this out. VZTZ staff tried MANY different variations of LNS rules, and while some worked better than others, they all ultimately failed. After tons of failure, I pulled a couple guild leaders into staff vent, and made them hammer out LnS rules that they both thought were fair, and that could easily be enforced. On live, the server populations were large enough that the community could effectively punish people for being griefing douchebags, however the R99 population may not be as large as live servers were, which means the community would not be able to stop certain guilds from acting any kinda way they wanted. Again, the ONLY time I’ve seen LNS work on emu was when the server’s top guild leaders got together and hammered something out together that they both could agree on (NOTE to staff- by doing this you are able to hold guild leaders and officers responsible for the actions of their members. So if randomplayer001 is caught violating the rules, feel free to suspend guild leadership as well as the original offender. Trust me, Guild leaders will get their members acting right if they can be suspended for the actions of their members).

Zone Plugging – its lame, but, it’s also classic. Imo, just don’t let the guy hit the zone. But real life isn’t that simple, I think if Rogean could indeed add something that forces the player to pop out LD on the other side it would be a superb addition to the R99 server. People were going on about “plugging to avoid YT” well this is true, it’s the least important side effect. People will be plugging mostly to avoid any possible LnS, to ensure that they are not out of the fight. But let’s make sure LD toons don’t go all GOD MODE when in LD form.

Playnice (training, BC, BR, griefing) – Training is retarded, Training is not pvp, Training does not take skill. Any young drunken monkey can train mobs.. hell if u give me 10 min, I’m sure I could teach my dog to train PoF right now. Dear R99 Staff, when u see trains, please use the biggest heaviest banhammer around to crack the needed skulls, I assure you it will help protect the population. As far as BindCamping and BindRushing… well that’s a slippery slope pals. I used to think BC/BR wasn’t a big deal either, and then I watched a guild vs guild fight for zone control over lady vox. GuildA was getting slaughtered by GuildB, however GuildA just kept bindrushing the fight for HOURS. GuildB was forced to repeatedly kill the same players over and over and over and over again for literally fuckingpullmyhairout hours. GuildB had in my opinion won the fight HOURS before, yet GuildA continued to rush just as a means to prevent GuildB from attempting their mob. THAT is not PvP, that’s just bindrushing. We tried a lot of ways to prevent BR/BC on VZTZ, however if a GM wasn’t on, a player would usually try to later lawyer the rules around to justify his or his guildies’ actions. I strongly suggest that the best way to deal with BC/BR is to not make a rule against it per say, but to make a rule stating that “any actions deemed detrimental to the server, it’s population of players and/or staff, are always considered against the rules and will result in your account being banned from the server” this will allow you to take each one on a case by case basis so the GM can see if the sketchy actions were actually warranted (recently killed players will try to bait and try to lure their killers into re-attacking them simply to petition that player for BCing, in hopes to get him banned).

PvP level Range – Well I think +/- 8 levels is perfect, and if Rogean can add that system he was describing, it sounds like nobody will have to worry about immy healing (which btw, was a very real and viable tactic used by dirty crossteamers on EQLive Vallon Zek (and I assume Tallon Zek). On A Side Note, if its possible to remove the pvp level range around Dragons and highly contested raid mobs, I strongly suggest doing so. The reason for this is because as GuildA preps for Supermob001, GuildB will either send a level 1 cleric to DA train OR GuildB will send a level 1 Rogue to spy on GuildA and watch them. This happened all the time on VZTZ.

Global OOC / Yellow Text – Global OOC is/was/will be a bad idea, just as it was on VZTZ. I know a lot of people “play for the ooc” but imo, that’s not how u play EQ, and the rest of the server generally doesn’t give a shit, sorry pals, take it to tells, or, grow a pair of balls and go to the zone with your enemies and talk shit to them in the zone. Global OOC had to be turned off LOTSA times for various reasons (garbage content, extreme spam to try and crash the players, etc), Furthermore there were quite a few players on VZTZ that had their OOC privileges revoked. ATTN PLAYERS, remember OOC is like a drivers license, IT’S A PRIVLEGE, NOT A RIGHT. As far as Yellow Text goes – firstly STAFF, you WANT to be able to see zone wide yellow text so you know exactly when and where PvP is popping off, and exactly where to go and who to watch at a moment’s notice. As far as Yellow Text for players (if it’s possible to do this even I’m not sure), if YT is server wide, it will be used to grief… but, if you can keep YT as player visible only as a zone wide feature everyone wins and everyone is happy. (basically GMs see YT server wide, but players see YT as zone wide).

Punishment – just make it count. Over on VZTZ we did lots of suspensions and we did a lot of bans. Suspensions and Bans didn’t matter because on VZTZ all u needed was a new IP address and u could level a new account to 60 in a week.

P.S. - Lastly, keep the XP exactly like p99. Mid level pvp is FUN and it didn’t exist on VZTZ, but furthermore, bans will mean A LOT more when it takes months to get to 60, when it takes more months to get that uber item.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

<3
Sirks

TL;DR – Sirken acting all knowledgeable... again

Hey, imagine that. The most non-retarded guy out of the bunch is one of the admins.

I don't think this is coincidence. Thanks Sirken for posting.

Kope · #6 08-26-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

again

/signed

Nice post man, very thoughtful and well laid out.

Humerox · #7 08-26-2011, 03:35 PM

Pretty sure I agreed with all this.

Sirken should be brought on to consult or something.

+1

Convict · #8 08-26-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. - Lastly, keep the XP exactly like p99. Mid level pvp is FUN and it didn’t exist on VZTZ, but furthermore, bans will mean A LOT more when it takes months to get to 60, when it takes more months to get that uber item.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

TL;DR – Sirken acting all knowledgeable... again

A+++ post. Quoted and Bold for emphasis. Sirken dropping wisdom nukes.

Knuckle · #9 08-26-2011, 03:43 PM

Sirken said pretty much everything I feel, except I still feel PVP should have yellowtext serverwide, everyone is overestimating how populated this server will be. Even P99 feels like a ghost town in most zones, red99 will be probably half the pop, and p99 is maybe 30% the pop. of a normal live server during 1999.

The other issue that really needs to be considered is the fact that when copying classic pvp mechanics, you are dealing with a 'non classic' population aware of every trick and abuse to pvp mechanics from back in the day, if you feel that player charming and fearing and that sort of thing makes the game more classic, you will quickly destroy the dreams of a red server. Egg shaped pumice and items of that nature were ok on live because a small minority of players were 'in the know' on how to pvp, and prepare for pvp. Here, the elite comprises of 80% of the population that will be playing.

mitic · #10 08-26-2011, 03:47 PM

so sirken, u care so much about pvp to post here a wall of text but care less to keep vztz going?

i do not understand this bro, and where the hell is daxum