Swarming - No Fear/POG/Velks?

[Bardp1999]

Wondering if this in practice only means City of Mist or if it really means ALL dungeons.

Here is a list to all the zones it applies too:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=370929

With the new changes to swarming/kiting - it would appear that swarming in Fear and PoG are no longer viable options. Are there exemptions for Raid zones? Would Velketors Labrynth fall under a raid zone? If a group is using Bard snare to handle adds and keep mobs in camp, is this allowed?

As it reads, I would think the current Fear tactic of "train everything and then stun/AoE it down and then kill CT" would be very much against the rules - similar situation in PoG with kiting. People swarm the spiders all the time in Velks, its great XP for the group. I for one will be keeping a watchful eye on these zones and reporting anyone who violates the new law.

"I do not like limiting how someone plays the game (unless it's exploitive in nature, of course). However, based on a high volume of situations, there is a need to revise how we classify swarm kiting in dungeon-type zones.

Historically, we have only responded to reports of zone disruptions as a result of swarm kiting reactively - if the player has already monopolized all of the mobs in a zone or if they have already trained other players. However, due to the high-risk play style, this has not been effective at stopping players from repeatedly causing major zone disruptions.

We will begin to proactively consider swarm kiting in dungeon-type zones a form of zone disruption, regardless of other players being present in the zone or not. In addition to monopolizing mobs and creating very high-risk situations for other players in the zone, it is also creating situations where players are passing on hunting in desired zones simple because they see a single player using this tactic, and recognize that the high-risk playstyle for one individual may very well get them and their groupmates killed." ~ GM Medris

[WarpathEQ]

My thoughts are 100% Velks is included and likely one of the main targets of this change, with CoM being a close second.

Its specific to "Swarm" kiting i.e. killing swaths of kited mobs with AoEs. Not kiting in general so places like ToV and Kael would be unimpacted (unless maybe faction pulls are illegal?!?)

Doesn't really apply to the current PoG metas as the mobs get kited but not killed (maybe people still do PoG clears? I haven't seen one in the last couple years since the tunare kite meta came about).

To me by far the biggest question mark is Fear. To the definition of the rules the current fear meta would be 100% illegal. But requiring no more AoEs it would massively deprioritize CT as an option on quakes due to the length of time required to clear and engage him.

The rule change is cited to come from 2 principles: Streamling the rulesets and reducing petitions. It will be interesting to see how that is balanced in a place like fear where the streamlined ruleset makes the current meta not allowed but would also likely increase petitions by removing the ability for guilds to clear large quantities of mobs from the zone with AoEs opening the door for a lot more training and a longer time table for guilds to be competing head to head in the zone.

[Eisai]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My thoughts are 100% Velks is included and likely one of the main targets of this change, with CoM being a close second.

Its specific to "Swarm" kiting i.e. killing swaths of kited mobs with AoEs. Not kiting in general so places like ToV and Kael would be unimpacted (unless maybe faction pulls are illegal?!?)

Doesn't really apply to the current PoG metas as the mobs get kited but not killed (maybe people still do PoG clears? I haven't seen one in the last couple years since the tunare kite meta came about).

To me by far the biggest question mark is Fear. To the definition of the rules the current fear meta would be 100% illegal. But requiring no more AoEs it would massively deprioritize CT as an option on quakes due to the length of time required to clear and engage him.

The rule change is cited to come from 2 principles: Streamling the rulesets and reducing petitions. It will be interesting to see how that is balanced in a place like fear where the streamlined ruleset makes the current meta not allowed but would also likely increase petitions by removing the ability for guilds to clear large quantities of mobs from the zone with AoEs opening the door for a lot more training and a longer time table for guilds to be competing head to head in the zone.

Unlike your previous post i will disagree here. They will almost surely allow you to aoe with a raid force.

Frankly i would allow any aoe that can handle the pull mass (Inc chardok) but you would (under my rule) owe any accidental deaths more than just a res. But I'm not in charge of any damn thing.

I bet you can swarm anywhere until it upsets another player; which is totally expected and exceptable. Rule #1 is still "don't be a douche", right?

[cd288]

I highly doubt they care about swarming as a raid tactic. In those cases, you're just liable if there's another raid force in the zone and you train them.

This is a change focusing on bards disrupting XP dungeons like Velks, CoM, and KC

[Swish]

Start swarming and see what happens. You probably know already.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I highly doubt they care about swarming as a raid tactic. In those cases, you're just liable if there's another raid force in the zone and you train them.

This is a change focusing on bards disrupting XP dungeons like Velks, CoM, and KC

This.

[Samoht]

Whether or not it was intentional, the raid zones are explicitly included with the list of dungeons, and "kiting mobs for AoE" is explicitly forbidden in dungeons, therefore they have introduced prohibition of AoE for clears in PoG and PoF or anywhere else you might be using such a strategy while raiding.

It's probably just an oversight, though, and someone should request GM clarification.

[Jimjam]

What is swarm kiting?
Swarm kiting (also known as AE kiting, historically) is the act of pulling a large quantity of mobs, kiting them, and utilizing point-blank AoE spells/songs to kill them. Most typically this leveling tactic is used by bards, but could theoretically be completed by other classes, as well.

Firstly, obviously the above isn't written as a water-tight legal scripture, instead it is part of a communciation on the spirit upon which the rule will be observed and applied.

Basically the motivation for the rule is more important than the exact details on how it is expressed. Ignoring that, I think it is worth looking at the minutae of the definition of swarm kiting anyway.

My interpretation of the above, is that for a kite to be considered a Swarm Kite there needs to be the intention to actually kill the mobs being kited as a part of that kite process. As such, training a bunch of mobs at once as a form of CC in a raid (i.e. not trying to kill the trained mobs, but running distraction so you can kill a separate mob) defacto isn't Swarm Kiting.

Furthermore, the ruling is an attempt to deter zone disruption. Having dozens of players take on dozens of mobs isn't really disruptive - it is the intended process of raiding (both form the players and the design perspectives). That said, perhaps this ruling does seek to encourage raids to actually fight mobs instead of running distraction on adds in order to focus on only killing the bosses?

I

Am
Not
A
Lawyer,

this argument may not stand up in the court of elf law.

[Keebz]

Rounding up mobs in PoG/PoF for AE during a clear is not "swarm kiting". Hope this helps.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rounding up mobs in PoG/PoF for AE during a clear is not "swarm kiting". Hope this helps.

I'll take things CSR ought to confirm or deny for 1000, Alex.