Tunare didn't really have raid guilds.

[Wakanda]

I know people will try and tell me this isn't true or that I'm lying, but I lived this experience and know that it's true. Like there are still archived forum posts from the time because they used the forums to keep up with DKP, loot, epic progress, seniority etc.

I'm not saying it would solve a lot of the problems on P99. I don't even raid on P99, but just saw a thread about how someone got in trouble because of a GM enforced raid agreement or something, and it feels surreal to me because my classic EQ experience was basically like.... anyone who wanted to raid could raid, lol.

It didn't matter what guild you were in. I felt like it was more fun because you didn't need an actual raid schedule and could basically just raid whenever you were in the mood. It also felt like there was endless content because if you were an unemployed kid on summer break, you could find a raid somewhere, all hours of the night. When WoW came out I was a little taken aback by how we only raided once a week because I was used to the culture of an MMO being a raid every night.

Just posting some archived threads for all my haters who will say it's fake.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tuna...pic-t1025.html -- they publicly tracked epic progress since it wasn't based on your guild. they also tracked dkp for nag/vox publicly, but archive only goes back until 2001.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tuna...poh-t1474.html -- they reported all loot since it was public raids.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tuna...ess-t5056.html -- random guilds or even guildless people would host these raids, and anyone could join and basically random on things. Sometimes if you only need the last 2 pieces for your set you would get seniority though.

I was never in a guild in classic EQ and got my epic, full plane of hate gear, full plane of growth gear and full skyshrine gear (I always wanted Kael, but its ironic because on P99 a lot of people think Skyshrine armor is better?).
Like IDK.

This was actual classic for me. I remember when Tunare split and some players went to Drinal, they were kind of culture shocked by the Mithaniel Marr players having closed guild-only raids.

Another weird thing about Tunare was that the auction zone was GFAY. Remember hundreds of people being there at all times.

When I started playing on P99 it wasn't a truly classic experience FOR ME because suddenly your guild mattered a lot, and the auction zone is in EC tunnel, lol. It still feels so weird to me when I go to gfay and I'm the only person in the zone.

[Toxigen]

cool story

[Ripqozko]

no one is reading that, hope that helps.

[Snaggles]

Most people raided as guilds. They used /gu to give directions since Ventrilo wasn’t released until 2002. They also sold in EC for the most part until the Bazaar.

[Zuranthium]

That would be a nicer method of raiding compared to the current, assuming some kind of size limitation, based on the people who show up first and setting a minimum number of Clerics. There's no meaningful gameplay that happens with standard PvE raiding, so at least making it more free-form is an upgrade.

I don't like Gfay as the trade hub though. Doesn't make sense for evil characters to be allowed to congregate there, and the EC tunnel is such a perfect spot for a bazaar to exist, both in terms of the landmark and where it's positioned in the game world.

[Ciderpress]

What you're describing sounds like a collectivist nightmare where nobody has any real stake in anything, social relationships don't matter and you wait for your participation trophy that means nothing when you get it.

I agree though it's cool that different cultures just organically emerged on each server like that. I played on Povar- we had trade hubs in Gfay, NFP and the EC tunnel. We also had a fiercely competitive raid scene.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you're describing sounds like a collectivist nightmare where nobody has any real stake in anything, social relationships don't matter and you wait for your participation trophy that means nothing when you get it.

There are more social relationships in the system described, since you're constantly surrounded by different people and need to communicate with them. There's more at stake too, since you don't know exactly how good the group of people will be, and since you're more likely to show up to raids that have a drop you want. This incentivizes people to put more effort in at the raid.

The p99 system is what creates participation trophies, while also rewarding unhealthy gameplay. There's nothing meaningful about being in a zerg guild and getting DKP just for showing up while the zerg trivializes the content, and there's nothing skillful about poopsocking and getting rewarded for destroying your sleep schedule to sit a camp non-stop.

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used roger wilco or team speak in early 2000 with the guild An Sli Amach. What did ventrilo add that TS or wilco didnt to voice comms?
ELON and Southern Armada used the same.

Highly doubt that. It wasn't possible to switch between Everquest and another program back then; EQ took up the entire screen and couldn't be minimized. So you'd be relying on opening Roger Wilco (TS didn't exist until 2002) and having it never disconnect after opening EQ, which is very dubious. Not to mention the fact that most people didn't have computer microphones back then. Even if your story isn't a fabrication, it's something that was done by less than 1% of players back then. Would have been only a small handful of people within a specific guild, nothing close to how voice chat is used now.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you're describing sounds like a collectivist nightmare where nobody has any real stake in anything, social relationships don't matter and you wait for your participation trophy that means nothing when you get it.

I agree though it's cool that different cultures just organically emerged on each server like that. I played on Povar- we had trade hubs in Gfay, NFP and the EC tunnel. We also had a fiercely competitive raid scene.

I can see what you're saying, and it makes me wonder if that's why it was so hard to get planar gear on Tunare. Like getting my set of Woven Shadow was a huge under-taking, but it made it feel super rewarding. I had Cleric friends who never had full planar even after years of raiding. Then I come on P99 and get full Planar 2 hours after zoning into Hate and I'm just like wait, what??? I still think that the drop rates are over-tuned for Planar gear, under-tuned for Ravenscale, but that's whatever.

Also like there was low incentive, virtually no incentive for me to raid Plane of Hate on my Monk unless I thought we were going to be killing bosses. If we were pulling trash, no way, I ain't interested. That's one cool thing about the way DKP works, there's always incentives for Clerics to raid PoF and monks to raid PoH, but that wasn't really a thing on Tunare, at least from MY perspective.

They did have some seniority rules. I would say you are wrong about people not building meaningful relationships without guilds. I feel like it was the other way around. You're desperate for more people to join your raid, so you have everyone reach out to their FRIENDS to join. I remember being shocked when I did my Rogue epic. I wasn't super knowledgeable about the game back then, but a married couple and friends teleported me out to Steamfont and helped me kill Renux or whatever it is you do out there, and then when it was time to kill the General, I was so worried that it would be too hard for me to do. Then 80+ people showed up to help me with this fight even though I wasn't in any guild.

On P99 I feel like guilds.... make people anti-social. There are certain raiding guilds who will treat outsiders like they don't even exist, or are irrelevant. There are people who will join a guild, make a lot of friends, and then bounce to join a raiding guild filled with people they don't even like. My few experiences with being in raiding guilds felt like I was in a guild with actual nazis and that I better be really careful if I type anything because I might get in trouble by simply trying to make banter or conversation.

Then people literally just get loot they want from a guild and then bounce. There's no real friendship there and it's super obvious.

Also the hatred of people in certain guilds. On early days of P99 green I had groups fall apart because someone invited a player from <Seal Team> and everyone started freaking out. Or I've been on Blue and having a chill experience when someone goes on an angry rant about how bad they hate Riot etc. and starts ranting at a player they don't even know because of their guild tag, lol.

I think when guilds are based off of common interests and friendship it's a more social experience than when you join a guild solely to get loot, and might even have guild officers threaten you if you get caught engaging in casual conversation in guild chat. Like nah, man.

I still know people from EQ 25+ years ago (some have passed away). I've never really made that many tight friends from P99, it always feels like everything is more of a business arrangement. Meanwhile even on WoW I have random friends who tag along with me everywhere I go simply because they like playing with me.

There's something about P99 and the guilds / raids that feels very anti-social to me compared to my own experiences with original everquest and other more modern MMOs.

[Duik]

I used roger wilco or team speak in early 2000 with the guild An Sli Amach. What did ventrilo add that TS or wilco didnt to voice comms?
ELON and Southern Armada used the same.

[magnetaress]

Weird buttt cool story yeah