Game Mechanics: Bard SPELL Item Effects should avoid stacking restrictions until 9/20/2001

[Rygar]

Evidence:
http://web.archive.org/web/200208170...ML/000323.html

Initial Explanation by devs:

We were also patching to remove some bard stacking problems. There was a way that a bard could, basically, cheat the system and double up on buffs.

To fix this problem we changed the way that spells cast from items work for bards. Bards using items that cast spells (not songs) will have those spells act just like regular spells, where they were acting like songs before. Bard songs stack with just about anything, and spells have their own sets of stacking rules. Bards casting spells from items were able to ignore the stacking restrictions of those spells.

Basic Summary:
Alan provided a lot of clarification in the thread, but basically if a bard was clicking a SPELL effect on an item, it treated that as a 'song' and not a 'spell'. Since there was no SONG stacking code from that spell, the spell stacked with everything. To clarify, it was working as intended for SONG item effects to have their stacking restrictions in place, but not for SPELL item effects.

Let's look at Damage shields: Bards could get a mage or druid damage shield on them, click their Singing Steel Bracer to generate Shield of Flame and it would stack (since it was a level 20 'spell' and not a 'song' effect). I need to find out more if unique effects also had stacking issues removed (such as DS Pot + Ring 8 + Ring 10 being able to stack to create the ULTIMATE DAMAGE SHIELD!).

I'm happy to find more evidence of this if you want to implement, but want to know IF you want to implement this change or is this a 'game breaking exploit' that you do not intend to fix?

Personally, I think having bards step up to tanking more would be fun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I don't know what other spell clickies are out there for bards which would make this entirely too powerful, or if there are just client issues preventing this and it isn't possible to adjust.

[MiRo2]

Previous related bug threads.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...=bard+stacking

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...=bard+stacking

Will try to pull out posted evidence when I'm not posting from my phone later.

I'm sure there is a ton more in era evidence to get as well, as there were more than a handful of must have bard items due to unique bard stacking that I will try to track down as I can.

[Rygar]

I did some searches on item stacking but perhaps I should have just opened up the search criteria, will browse those threads later and see if this is a dupe post. Looked to be slightly different on some song stacking stuff, but saw some shield of flame mention on self.

But if this is just dupe post, please move to resolved or merge with existing thread! Thank you sir.

Edit: Seems this thread at least backs up evidence in point #3 of the first thread and at least indicates this should NOT be for entire timeline of server, but rather up until 9/20/2001. Quote from that thread:

3 - A bard right click buff / debuff proc is suposed to stack with EVERYTHING. far from that here.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/i...10316772082880

Quote:
In the off hand, where ratio is better than speed, this is a fine weapon. Keep your speedy weapons in the mainhand for the damage bonus and a good ratio'd weapon in the other. As for the proc, I can't speak for paladins, but I've had Guard stack with any other buffs I'm ever given. Then again, a bard proc'ing a JStick stacks with enchanter Tash, sp bard proc stacking has always been a bit weird (but benefically so). Anyway, it's worth using just until you get the proc and switching out if you wish. An extra 20AC never hurts

[Rygar]

Edit #2: Annnnnd your second thread did indeed have the same evidence I linked here, albeit the last post in the thread. Interesting to note that they suggest it was possibly removed during the 9/25/2001 patch and it continued to stack, but I thought I saw that to be just SONG stacking (there were problems where bards couldn't cast there Selo BP since it was being treated as a spell or something).

Thanks for the post, it sounds like this could be deleted and that thread bumped (still questioning the buff click stacking working past 9/20/2001, but that can be further researched). Sorry for the duplication!

[MiRo2]

Didn't find as much as I expect on Allakhazam about this, I will look other places later, but here is what I did find:

Guardians Mace

RE: Price Fixing
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#Sep 10 2002 at 12:14 PMRating: Good
Jophiel
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
In the off hand, where ratio is better than speed, this is a fine weapon. Keep your speedy weapons in the mainhand for the damage bonus and a good ratio'd weapon in the other. As for the proc, I can't speak for paladins, but I've had Guard stack with any other buffs I'm ever given. Then again, a bard proc'ing a JStick stacks with enchanter Tash, sp bard proc stacking has always been a bit weird (but benefically so). Anyway, it's worth using just until you get the proc and switching out if you wish. An extra 20AC never hurts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Singing Steel Bracer

no
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#May 08 2001 at 10:27 PMRating: Default
Anonymous
Anonymous
You can not have two of the smae spell on, in EVARY case there is for ever quest.
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RE: no
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#Apr 02 2002 at 10:15 PMRating: Decent
Vasudeva the Malevolent
Scholar
24 posts
"EVARY case" does not apply to a Bard.

Tri-plated Golden Hackle Hammer

RE: ����
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#Jul 01 2002 at 9:23 PMRating: Decent
Vicks
37 posts
Actually,

It stacks after focus is already on you...at least for bards.

Sarnak Summoner's Staff / Lava Diamond

Bards...
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#Oct 08 2001 at 10:49 PMRating: Decent
Descend
7 posts
Actually mages summon these and give them to bards... who in turn cast them on other people. If a bard casts it, the effect will stack with every other damage shield out there, including the mage DS.

So yes this is an extreamly useful item.
____________________________
-Descend
-ShadowKnight
-Druzzil Ro
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RE: Bards...
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#Oct 08 2001 at 11:13 PMRating: Decent
Blackraine
*
51 posts
This changed 2 patches ago. Bards now use items just like everyone else, and their use no longer has any innate bard stacking privaleges.