Monks - The second best tank in the game?

Lhancelot · #1 10-11-2016, 05:59 PM

I have a running discussion/debate with a pal of mine, and often times the monk class is brought up. We have a difference in opinion on the class, and I was curious to see if more experienced players would have more insight on this topic. My questions are as follows:

1. Are monks overpowered in a group setting?

2. Are monks capable of tanking, in fact are they considered the second best tanking class in the game in a group setting?

3. What group is more efficient? One with a warrior, sk, pally, or a monk tanking, and why?

I should mention the debate often revolves around how the monk is capable of doing three of the group roles, that being DPS, pulling, and tanking and how according to one of us in this debate no other classes can do so much, and do it so effectively.

Is it true? Are monks the ultra class that can nearly do it all AND do it great, or are they simply another dps cog in the group setting machinery with a penchant for pulling thanks to FD?

thufir · #2 10-11-2016, 06:20 PM

1. sure. You can judge OP several ways but monks have very good damage avoidance and very good DPS, coupled with FD.
2. yes, although their aggro control is kind of dubious. obviously they are good at losing aggro but they can only get aggro through DPS and procs - kinda like a warrior without the taunt. The upside is that they do more damage than warriors. A monk tank can generally get aggro at some point during the fight, but the monk's lack of snap aggro might make for some irritation in the early stages against a tough mob if someone lands a debuff early and the mob goes straight for them.
3. this depends on group composition and where you're fighting. knights have aforementioned snap aggro which can be a real help in a group with an enchanter or other squishies. equipped properly monks can tank about as well as a warrior can and do more damage while doing so, although they have fewer hp so clerics might complain about the CH. generally a monk tank will do ya just fine, although having to both pull and tank is a vague hassle if nobody can hold aggro on the mob while you go get another.

Kender · #3 10-11-2016, 06:21 PM

1. yes

2. depends on what you're after. as a damage soaker yes they are probably second best. on threat? cant beat a sk or pally on fast threat and snap agro. monks come last in this aspect behind a warrior because they don't get taunt

3. paladin or sk especially with a bard or chanter. snap and fast agro means dps can go harder earlier. paladin can supplement heals (very useful if healer isn't a cleric) sk can help with lifetaps. However, if threat isn't an issue then monk is also good. warrior is always consistent and get much better as their gear gets better

yes a monk can pull tank and dps but if they are doing all 3 in the one group that groups kill speeds will go down (as they have to go find new volunteers to kill)

vincenzo · #4 10-11-2016, 06:22 PM

SK's are the second best tanks unless you are an uber monk in an uber guild with NToV and AoW loot while the SK is rocking EC buyables.
Rogues are better DPS than monks.

Monks are great pullers, average tanks and fairly good DPS. They are versatile but aren't 'the ultra class.' That would be Enchanters.

nyclin · #5 10-11-2016, 06:37 PM

1. Are monks overpowered in a group setting? Pretty much. Self-heal, huge melee avoidance, good DPS, FD/sneak.

2. Are monks capable of tanking, in fact are they considered the second best tanking class in the game in a group setting? Monks are easily the best tanks in the game for content which does not absolutely require a Warrior for disc tanking. Aggro is not an issue as a caster with first rank Root can guarantee that the Monk tanks. On top of this, Monks have access to some absolutely amazing aggro weapons: Tranquil Staff, Adamantite Club, and Sarnak Warhammer.

3. What group is more efficient? One with a warrior, sk, pally, or a monk tanking, and why? Depends on the rest of the group IMO, but you can't go wrong with a Knight or Monk tanking in an exp or non-raid group.

Also you don't need NToV or BiS loot to tank on a Monk. I've tanked a ton of stuff with my monk, which has zero raid loot minus Iki boots.

Lojik · #6 10-11-2016, 06:42 PM

Depends on who you ask and also the situation. If your group is mostly people afk watching Netflix and throwing out the occasional heal, then pal/sk are prob better tanks since they can snap aggro easily (the only area a monk lacks in terms of tanking.) If you're grouped with some experienced players who are comfortable parking mobs and rooting mobs so tank can face tank, then monk is a probably a better tank. If your main heals are shm/or druid then monk also potentially better.

On raid bosses it's war then pal/sk

Vexenu · #7 10-11-2016, 06:50 PM

1) I wouldn't call them overpowered. They aren't really transformational to a group in the same way that a good Enchanter or Bard or Shaman 50+ (slow is OP) can be. But they are certainly powerful. A Monk who knows how to pull well is a huge asset to a group.

2) Yes, in a purely numerical, best-case scenario, non-disc defensive tanking situation Monks are actually the best tanks in the game due to their extremely high avoidance (Block is OP). And high AC Velious gear brings their mitigation on par with Warriors.

3) Here's the rub: while on paper Monks are the best tanks, in practice this is rarely the case, because the game is usually messy. Monks have no way to grab snap agro like a SK or Paladin, no way to reliably interrupt casters like the other tanks, and no real utility to offer the group (i.e. Paladin roots and heals, SK snares, even Warrior snare and slow procs add utility the Monk lacks).

Basically, for a Monk tank to be outright better than a Knight or Warrior requires both an extremely well-geared Monk and an ideal situation (mobs that are not too strong, no casters, and groupmates who understand how to play around the limitations of a Monk tank). As a general rule of thumb, an XP group is always best served with a Knight tank, and a raid will almost always want Warrior tanks. Monk tanking is not ideal in the vast majority of player situations in EQ. The Monk's real power comes from being an excellent puller, excellent DPS and a serviceable tank when needed. It's the ability to wear many hats well rather than wearing one hat (the tank hat) exceptionally well that makes Monks so good.

mickmoranis · #8 10-11-2016, 06:51 PM

I mean a velious geared war is > than a velous geared monk.. but a velious geared monk is still > than almost 99% of everquest heh so... /shrug?

Sage Truthbearer · #9 10-11-2016, 06:52 PM

Monks rarely cover the role of tanking in 6-person pick-up groups. As a Monk, you will primarily be pulling and DPSing in group settings. Monks may be good at mitigating incoming damage, but their aggro management mostly only goes one way -> dropping aggro.

mr_jon3s · #10 10-11-2016, 06:56 PM

If they ever release level 60 monks triple attack you are gonna see some crazy dps.