What's the beef with boxing?

[kildone]

*Edit Thank you for the thoughtful posts and insightful information. I will add these to the post*

I have seen comments in other threads but wanted to hear opinions in a thread specific to the issue. I honestly don't get it and think the arguments against do not hold water.

It very likely I am just ignorant on the issue. These opinions against are likely based on experience. Did P99 ever try it?

On live EQ I knew a number of folks who two boxed and one guy who would play up to 5. These guys always preferred grouping to boxing. Always glad to drop down to one character to allow folks into a group.

On blue 99 when the server was new I could understand a ban, but when I was leveling 1-35 two years ago the server was so top heavy that I had a real hard time finding anyone to group with. So much that I stopped playing my cleric to play a Druid so I could solo effectively. Part of this is likely due to mostly being able to play during non peak times?

I would suck at boxing myself but at least I could play any character like maybe a warrior if I had a cleric on the side to buff and heal. I don't want to get banned though so...

On red99, 6 months ago and now recently on a new character I can rarely find a group even in CB or Unrest?

Thoughts on boxing MMOs in general? Advice on finding groups on P99 servers < lvl 40?

******* Edit
There are reasons that boxing was rare that I did not think of (certainly discouraged me from trying boxing, I remembered now that it was mentioned:
Internet connection issues and hardware constraints
On live you had to pay for your accounts, which inherently limited boxing. Accounts are free on an Emu server

Bad things that can happen if boxing is allowed:Locking down camps (I guess I can imagine some people would be able to lock down multiple camps and refuse to give any up)
Using tools to enable small groups of people to lock down raid targets

Good things that can happen if boxing is allowed:
Regardless of what some people say, it can often be hard to find groups on an top heavy server, boxing enables one to play a class they like and still be able to do content and travel

Why trying to enforce boxing can be difficult / impossible
Quote from apio - the argument for P99, since there is limited content for way too many people, but there are a lot of people boxing on P99, to hold down separate camps, which makes it hard to identify, so the limitations here really only serve to keep the "good people" in check !
It is easy to have multiple IP's if people in the house have mobile phones

Thanks to all who have posted, I love a good discussion.

[loramin]

If a server allows boxing then it basically forces everyone on that server to box. I boxed on live, and I wouldn't mind boxing occasionally here, but I would never want to feel like I have to box to "keep up with the Jones" (which is what would happen if P99 allowed boxing).

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a server allows boxing then it basically forces everyone on that server to box. I boxed on live, and I wouldn't mind boxing occasionally here, but I would never want to feel like I have to box to "keep up with the Jones" (which is what would happen if P99 allowed boxing).

P99 has been in Kunark for like 200 years and you think you'd need to box to keep up with others?

[Laugher]

I like the 1 box limit here because most other emu servers I've played almost always involved at least 2 boxing to get around; having played a lot of Irreverent server before here I boxed almost always for a few years. Its kind of nice to be on a server where you can play the class you actually like playing without having to box x amount of support classes to level or gear the toon you actually like/would want to focus on.

[kildone]

Originally Posted by Laugher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the 1 box limit here because most other emu servers I've played almost always involved at least 2 boxing to get around; having played a lot of Irreverent server before here I boxed almost always for a few years. Its kind of nice to be on a server where you can play the class you actually like playing without having to box x amount of support classes to level or gear the toon you actually like.

Again I am missing something. I only feel the need to box when I cant get a group. If I could get that support from other members, why would I need to box?

[kildone]

Can you explain just a bit more why everyone would feel the need to box? I never did on live even when I knew some people who did.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by kildone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you explain just a bit more why everyone would feel the need to box? I never did on live even when I knew some people who did.

On live you had to pay for your accounts, which inherently limited boxing. Sure a few people did it, but it wasn't like everyone was doing it.

Here though accounts are free, which means the only limit to boxing would be the server's (if any). It's easy to say "oh that won't affect me" ... until you can't get groups because everyone is 6-boxing (or, if there's a limit, 2- or 3-boxing in 3/2 real person groups). Or until you try to go do a non-solo camp with some friends and find that they've all become locked down like the fungi camp, because it only takes one person to do so. Or when your guild starts yelling at you to stop being lazy and play more accounts during raids.

Like others said, if you go on to servers that do allow boxing you can see the effect it has first-hand.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by kildone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you explain just a bit more why everyone would feel the need to box? I never did on live even when I knew some people who did.

Originally Posted by kildone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On blue 99 when the server was new I could understand a ban, but when I was leveling 1-35 two years ago the server was so top heavy that I had a real hard time finding anyone to group with. So much that I stopped playing my cleric to play a Druid so I could solo effectively. Part of this is likely due to mostly being able to play during non peak times?

I would suck at boxing myself but at least I could play any character like maybe a warrior if I had a cleric on the side to buff and heal. I don't want to get banned though

[kildone]

Glenzig

You miss the point. I would not feel the need to box just because I could. I might desire to box if there was no other way I could play certain classes when no groups are available.

I might be wrong but I seem to read a lot on the forums about how you don't want to play certain classes because nobody will invite you.

[sox7d]

Whatever, I'll bite.

The "play by yourself, together" trend in MMOs has turned the genre from immersive worlds to putting a hose in your mouth that shoots a stead stream of shallow-gratification down your throat. Everquest, FFXI, UO, SWG had bullshit in them. Sometimes it took the form of long leveling, difficult, scattered quests, class imbalance, darkness, inability to solo, no maps, harsh death penalties or dependent transportation. But each of those things, while inconvenient, added something to the game.

Long leveling gave prestige
Difficult, scattered quests gave accomplishment
Class imbalance gave personality
Darkness gave realism
Inability to solo gave community
No maps gave immersion
Harsh death penalties gave emotion
Dependent transportation gave ecology

Maybe its not for everyone, but memorable games need bullshit. Think of it like a cake. A cake consists of two parts, the somewhat unpalatable, spongy bread ("bullshit") and the sweet frosting (leveling up, gear upgrades, convenience). Everyone can agree that the frosting tastes better than the cake itself, but what recent MMORPGS have done is just throw a tub of frosting at the player and tell them to dig in. They get to max level by themselves after a month, then they quit and never think about Age of Conan, SW:TOR, TERA, Aion, Warhammer, Marvel Heroes, Guild Wars 2, Rift, Wildstar or Final Fantasy XIV ever again.

Throw two-boxing into the mix, players now play with themselves and community turns to shit like every other MMORPG out there.

"But you don't have to two-box"
When everyone CAN, everyone will. If you think it's hard to find a group now, wait until 1/4 of the server is two-boxing. Then more people will be fed up with the LFG times and start boxing which ends up being a vicious circle until everyone is.

P1999 is the last bastion of bullshit, and I'll be damned if anyone takes any of it away.