Server Ticks (5 song twist)

[astuce999]

This is an attempt to explain how the server ticks works, and its relationship to songs. It works the same way with other aspects of the game(i.e. meditate, regeneration, dots), but I would like to focus on songs for now, since they are such short durations, it makes a big impact knowing how this really works.

A typical song is a 3 second cast, and lasts 3 server ticks. This means an effective 12-18 seconds. This is why songs will sometimes drop for what seems early in a 4-5 song twist, it’s because the time a song lasts is not uniform.

0*secs – Server Ticks (#1)
0.5 secs – Song Cast Starts (Heal Song)
3.5 secs – Song finishes, icon appears (Heal Song)
4.0 secs – Song Cast Starts (Speed Song)
6.0 secs Server Ticks (#2) (Heal Song Heals #1)
7.0 secs – Song finishes, icon appears (Speed Song)
7.5 secs – Song Cast Starts (Fire DoT)
10.5 secs – Song finishes, dot message appears
12.0 secs – Server Ticks (#3) (Heal Song Heals #2, Speed Song #1, DoT damage #1)
18.0 secs – Server Ticks (#4) (Heal Song Heals #3, Speed Song #2, DoT damage #2)
24.0 secs –Server Ticks (#5) (Speed Song #3, DoT damage #3)
30.0 secs – Server Ticks (#6)

As we can see in this example, even though all 3 songs used are a 3 tick durations, there are different things we can learn. The first is the actual duration of the songs; Heal Song lasted 14.5 seconds, Speed Song lasted 17 seconds, and the DoT song lasted 13.5 seconds. The second attribute we can observe is that song effects that have durations can be divided into two categories; «*always on*» and «*pulses*». This is very important as it will dictate whether we can afford to have a song drop without losing any of its benefits depending on which type it is. Let’s take the Heal Song, which is a pulse type song. The only time we actually care whether its active or not is on the server tick. If in the example above we started playing the Heal song at any point between time 15.1secs and time 20.9secs, it would have been active before Server Tick #5 when the pulse happens and we gain HP back just as if the song had never faded.

The Speed Song is an «*always on*» type song and once the song expires on a server tick, we dont have the luxury of waiting until the next server tick to feel its absence, we slow down right away. This brings up a second aspect of*«*always on*»*attributes. How important is it that a song is always on? If the speed song drops even for a second it can mean death in certain contexts. But if haste, or slow/snare (mid-fight), or str/dex, or AC, drops for a second or two, is it really the end of the world?

A typical song line-up I use with mostly pulse duration songs is the following. Fulfil’s curtailing chant (magic dot), Chant of Flame (fire dot), Chant of Frost (cold dot), Selo’s Consonant Chains (snare/slow), and Cantata of Replenishment (heal/mana). I also click my Breath of Harmony (Niv’s Melody of Preservation, Insta-cast) to effectively have 6 songs.
Using the same set up as before, here is what it looks like with the server ticks.

0.0secs Server Ticks (#1)
0.1secs Cast Magic DoT
3.1secs Magic DoT lands
3.3secs Cast Fire DoT
6.0secs Server Ticks (#2) (Magic DoT Damage #1)
6.3secs Fire Dot lands
6.5secs Cast Cold DoT
9.5secs Cold Dot lands
9.7secs Cast Chains
12.0secs Server Ticks (#3) (Magic DoT #2, Fire DoT #1, Cold DoT #1)
12.7secs Chains lands
12.9secs Cast Manasong
15.9secs Manasong lands
16.1secs Cast Magic DoT
18.0secs Server Ticks (#4) (Magic DoT #3, Fire DoT #2, Cold DoT #2, Manasong #1)
19.1secs Magic DoT lands
19.3secs Cast Fire DoT
22.3secs Fire DoT lands
22.5secs Cast Cold DoT
24.0secs Server Ticks (#5) (Magic DoT #1, Fire DoT #1, Cold DoT #3, Manasong #2)
25.5secs Cold DoT lands
25.7secs Cast Chains
28.7secs Chains lands
28.9secs Cast Manasong
30.0secs Server Ticks (#6) (Magic DoT #2, Fire DoT #2, Cold DoT #1, Manasong #3)
31.9secs Manasong lands
32.1secs Cast Magic DoT
35.1secs Magic DoT Lands
35.3secs Cast Fire DoT
36.0secs Server Ticks (#7) (Magic DoT #1, Fire DoT #3, Cold DoT #2, Manasong #1)

In this perfect world with no missed notes, lag and no bash/stun, one can easily keep a 5 song twist going. In real game situations, it is more difficult but definitely doable, and most definitely worth it.

I hope this shed some light and didnt make things more confusing,

Astuce Subterfuge

[falkun]

The problem is you are ALWAYS in a "real game situation". Because of this, the BoH click takes time to cast (stop previous song, click BoH, start next song).

When solo-DoTTing: 5 song twist of fear/DoT/DoT/DoT/snare
When melee-ing (group): 4 song twist, typically mana/haste(str)/resist(DS)/slow(snare,-AC)
On raids: 3 song twist of mana/resist/resist

When I'm charming, its very typical for me to get a full 4-song twist + 1 song, then I start charm and the mob is uncharmed for <1.5sec.

I guess I could get used to doing a 5-song twist in groups, but I typically don't have the spare spell slot for a worthwhile 5th song (only have 8!), so I don't sweat it. Also, I'm usually charming anyways with the way I pull (more efficient to pull 2 and charm 1 then it is to solo pull).

[Splorf22]

The big problem with this logic is that each character is on a separate tick. For example when aoe kiting you'll tag a whole bunch of mobs with one cast, and then see the messages gradually start over 6 seconds.

[Dalven]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is you are ALWAYS in a "real game situation". Because of this, the BoH click takes time to cast (stop previous song, click BoH, start next song).

When solo-DoTTing: 5 song twist of fear/DoT/DoT/DoT/snare
When melee-ing (group): 4 song twist, typically mana/haste(str)/resist(DS)/slow(snare,-AC)
On raids: 3 song twist of mana/resist/resist

When I'm charming, its very typical for me to get a full 4-song twist + 1 song, then I start charm and the mob is uncharmed for <1.5sec.

I guess I could get used to doing a 5-song twist in groups, but I typically don't have the spare spell slot for a worthwhile 5th song (only have 8!), so I don't sweat it. Also, I'm usually charming anyways with the way I pull (more efficient to pull 2 and charm 1 then it is to solo pull).

This is exactly how I play bard in a standard group, unless the group is particularly lacking in DPS. The server ticks are useful for getting a bit more mileage out of your songs - as you say where the effects are applied on the server tick you can get the dropped song back up before the next tick hits and thus haven't lost any of the effects. I hadn't realised what Lorean says about each character being on seperate ticks was the case which removes some of the validity of doing this.

I've found the server tick useful when dotting down single mobs in dungeons where you use the Mez/Dot/Dot/Dot/Charm/Regen/Repeat method. If you can time the ticks of your mez correctly you can basically have all 3 dots applied with the mob only being on you for 3 or 4 seconds before you recharm and regen. To be honest I rarely bother though as it is slow and laborious and thats not why I play a bard.

I usually have Charm, Cantata, Snare, Mez, Lull, Rousing Rondo, Resist and Chorus of Clarity memmed for a standard group where i will be the puller - usually only have four of these running and recharming as needed - as Falkun says usually after the 5th cast after a charm. When I have the dots memmed when fear kiting or duoing/trioing I'll usually just twist regen as every 4th song and trust my, for want of a better word, rythm to ensure I'm singing the right dots at the right time.

[Swish]

Enjoy your carpal tunnel guys, I wouldn't even attempt this until /melody [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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[Sadre Spinegnawer]

you bards are nuts, I swear. I mean, great class, but really, you are all nuts.

I mean, I remember back in the day playing with bards who were proud of how they would keep the twisting going **even during a group afk break**

There's crazy, then there is bard crazy.

[zanderklocke]

Yeah...I just don't see myself doing the 5 song twist. Sometimes "good enough" is enough to get by. I'll stick to my 4 songs in group and 3 songs on raids ha.

I honestly think it would be cool to see a chart that parsed out average moves per minute based on class in the game. I mean you look at other games like Starcraft, and professionals tend to average thousands of movements/key presses per minute. For sure bard has the highest moves per minute in the game, then maybe enchanter?

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For sure bard has the highest moves per minute in the game, then maybe enchanter?

Shaman has to be second. Shaman are always doing something. Whether it's buffing, slowing, or cannibalizing.

[falkun]

Typical group song line-up:
1) Mana song
2) haste (45% haste if I'm the real haster, DS-haste if I'm not)
3) ??? usually resists
4) slow/snare/-AC
5) 1min slow
6) mez
7) charm
8) lull

I wouldn't really have room for a 5th song if I wanted it, Everquest makes you choose spells in a way newer games don't.

I've never tried /melody, Swish. How well does it work mixing in remezzing/recharming?

[Swish]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Typical group song line-up:
1) Mana song
2) haste (45% haste if I'm the real haster, DS-haste if I'm not)
3) ??? usually resists
4) slow/snare/-AC
5) 1min slow
6) mez
7) charm
8) lull

I wouldn't really have room for a 5th song if I wanted it, Everquest makes you choose spells in a way newer games don't.

I've never tried /melody, Swish. How well does it work mixing in remezzing/recharming?

90% of my bard experience came before Kunark on Live so I didn't use it much other than messing around on an alt... but for charm breaks I'd imagine it to require some manual twisting.

3 song twists were comfortable back then, 4 was difficult... 5 can gtfo! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]