Girdle of Living Thorns or Belt of Dwarf Slaying?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Spikecoat is only 10 more AC than Yaulp, and AoB gives you +2 HP regen, which is also a defensive benefit.

It's still 10 more AC. I was responding to them saying it does nothing besides the +4 damage shield.

You didn't include bash in your calculation for damage shields, btw.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's still 10 more AC. I was responding to them saying it does nothing besides the +4 damage shield.

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification!

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't include bash in your calculation for damage shields, btw.

Indeed, good catch! Kicks/bashes occur every 8 seconds. So you'd get an extra (4 damage / 8 seconds) * 0.7 = 0.35 DPS with a 70% hit rate.

I also didn't take into account Double Attack. You would basically be doing 2 DPS base not including Kick/Bash with Spikecoat. Mobs 40ish+ should have 200 double attack skill, which is a 50% chance to double attack. The mob would get 70/100 mainhand hits, plus 35/50 double attack hits. So you could say they are hitting ~100 times out of 100 swings with a 70% hit rate.

This is what the DPS would look like for both setups:

Spikecoat:
1. ~2.4 DPS on unslowed unhasted mob that doesn't flurry
2. ~1.5 DPS on 35% slowed mob (Willsapper)
3. ~0.6 DPS on 75% slowes mob (Shaman Slow)

Yaulp4 + AoB with Great Spear of Dawn against Shady Swashbuckler (~700 AC mob):
1. ~3.5 DPS (100% Haste using the 40 STR from Yaulp4)
2. ~2.0 DPS (100% Haste already STR capped)
3. ~3.0 DPS (61% Haste using the 40 STR from Yaulp4)
4. ~1.5 DPS (61% Haste already STR capped)

Both can be better than the other depending on the situation. I prefer AoB + Yaulp4 looking at these numbers, as buffing a player to increase their DPS is less dangeous than letting a mob stay unhasted. It's not worth gaining maybe 0.4-0.9DPS via spikecoat.

[Naethyn]

Does bash benefit from haste?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does bash benefit from haste?

NPC's bash the same amount regardless of being slowed or not, or at least that's how it's supposed to be.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does bash benefit from haste?

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NPC's bash the same amount regardless of being slowed or not, or at least that's how it's supposed to be.

https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared

Looking at the logs from my Ionat fight, it looks like slow does affect kick/bash for mobs. Kick/bash interval goes from 8 seconds to 32 seconds, which is the expected result with a 75% slow.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not so sure about that, at least on a Paladin who is actively Yaulping. Since Spikecoat and Yaulp4 don't stack, this produces an interesting wrinkle.

Mobs swing every 2 seconds, unless they are hasted or slowed. This means 4 damage shield will do 2 DPS (4 damage / 2 seconds) if the mob hits every time. Obviously that doesn't happen unless you are spamming sit. At a 70% hit rate, you'd get like 1.4 DPS with Spikecoat. This assumes the mob isn't slowed, casting spells, running, etc.

AoB + Yaulp4 gives you +26 ATK. Let's assume the Paladin is already max STR, so the STR isn't helping DPS. According to my DPS calculator, a 60 Paladin with Great Spear of Dawn (53/46 2h weapon), 61% Haste (41% worn + 20% from eyepatch), and 255 STR would gain roughly 1.4 DPS as well from +26 ATK.

Yaulp4 gives 15 AC compared to Spikecoats 25 AC. But remember than AoB gives HP regen, so you are still getting a defensive bonus in exchange for -10 AC.

They are both pretty comparable in most scenarios. AoB will have the advantage if you are slowing mobs or fighting casters. If you are fighting a raid mob that flurries, then spikecoat will have the advantage. But that does assume you have a buff slot for spikecoat for that raid encounter.

Yaulp4’ing is more dps (it’s about 40 displayed attack; doesn’t stack with SoN or Shissar). It it’s also more APM. Skipping it for Spikecoat lets you devote that action to self-casting the HoT, more aggro spells, or focusing on other stuff like clickies and positioning. The girdle is also a long duration junk buff that stacks with most everything like the Coldain ring. The worst part is the lack of mana which for a pally or SK is something to think about.

Maybe I was rounding up with “objectively better”. If I’m tanking for 20-40+ people one of the first things I give up is Yaulping, as good as the spell is for normal use. My slider is all the way cranked to being a good aggro tank, Soulfire clicking, or swapping to a more beneficial class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe I was rounding up with “objectively better”. If I’m tanking for 20-40+ people one of the first things I give up is Yaulping, as good as the spell is for normal use. My slider is all the way cranked to being a good aggro tank, Soulfire clicking, or swapping to a more beneficial class.

I agree that yaulping isn't really worth much while raiding. I was focusing more on solo/group content where you are more likely to care about 2 DPS.

In raiding neither yaulp or spikecoat will matter much, unless you are trying to max damage shield for a specific target like AoW. Raid targets usually aren't in dire need of 2 DPS from the tank. You also generally have less buff slots available in raids, so you may not have room for spikecoat or yaulp anyway.

[Duik]

What it boils down to is (for the non p99 tragic 24/7 camper) is that either one is good. If you (tragically) must get both.
Do it.
Either one is FUCKING EXCELLENT UNLESS YOU WANT TO GET BOTH. Then do that.

TL;DR.

Only motherfucking brain dead 24/7 raiders give two fucks between the differences.

Sure aim for your preferences. But an INSTANT CAST advantagous buff of AC and DS is good in many situations.

An AoB affect is also good.

Get the one you can. Unless you are able to get both.

Pls send tell if you are disappointed with either...

[Allishia]

The spike coat stacks with fos too, major shielding line doesnt. And it's a nice instant click junk buff /nod

[kjs86z2]

lol naethyn