Dividing Velious content among the Dwarf / Dragon / Giant factions

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I assume you make west Temple Veeshan armor quests doable from Thurgadin since otherwise that wing is rendered almost pointless aside from a few mediocre named.

I moved those quest drops to Skyshrine, to make that zone more useful and so the Giant faction a place to get their quest armor drops. They wouldn't have quest armor line available to them otherwise.

Dwarf faction already gets armor quests from hunting in Kael. So yes, ToV west would just become a place to kill a few named Dragons. That should be okay because the Dwarf faction has the most areas available to them. Another option is making the Thurdagin quest pieces drop in both Kael and ToV west, if we care about retaining the usefulness of the ToV west trash mobs.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You specifically list Holgresh Beads as a Thurgadin item...does this imply a quested means of obtaining that item?

Nah, it would perma drop, need to keep the Holgresh valley relevant! On that topic, I don't believe items with unique effects should ever only be available for one limited time only. They should either always be obtainable or should be nerfed for everyone.

But yeah this whole thing was just a thought experiment in modifying the game without changing the mechanics/locations very much, and trying to divide the Velious items approximately equally between 3 factions. If having free reign to change the game, I'd want to go wayyyyyy further.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Skyshrine's lower levels see moderate usage--that part of the zone is by no means abandoned. The upper levels probably go un-used for months at a time though aside from people running up for quest turn-ins or running to Yelinak. Plane of Growth is un-used by its intended audience (lower-end folks looking for a tier-equivalent alternative to Thurgadin armor) mostly because of POG's. Remove those things and the zone sees way more use. They kill that zone pretty much singlehandedly--terrible design choice.

Agreed. PoH and PoF are better overall in design, especially PoH when 2.0 got patched in and minis spawned more frequently. Farm drops, gain xp, and have a chance at raid loot.

If the Velious expansion hadn't leaned so heavily into raid content, Skyshrine and Growth would have been more group-friendly. Thurgadin might have served as a starting city, with the Coldain being the new available race. That would have made at least a large portion of GD more of a newbie zone, compared to what it is, where half of the layout goes unused and its river leads to...nowhere? Anticlimactic. Giants could have remained high level, similar to classic, posted at their forts with the occasional roamer. Wurms could have remained in the tunnel system, again with roamers. And so on. Kunark has this of course and it works well to keep zones populated with players of varying levels.

Wakening Lands could have provided a similar, lower/higher level experience. With the placement of a similar click-in zone, similar to PoG's, there could have been a second starting city for high/wood elves and yet another starting city for half elves. As is, there really isn't much of an elven presence in Wakening Lands, even with Tunare right nearby, granted on another plane but still. It was a missed opportunity. Could have had wandering elf and giant NPCs attacking each other, similar to mobs of opposing factions in TT and FV.

The expansion's differences are obvious when looking at the bestiary. There are no snow griffenes or griffawns, no ry'gorr pawns, manticore cubs, mastodon calves, etc. WW has dragons nesting all over, and yet no dragonlings. ToV has hatchlings/chickens but they are more of a raid nuisance than anything and not a camp for xp groups. Everything is Antonica on steroids.

By contrast, zones like Oasis feel more alive due to their layout and level range, creating more potential for unlikely interactions and vicarious immersion. Within Oasis, the main point of interest is spectre island, visible from the inn and gypsy camp where lower level players frequent. High level solo/duos can be seen from along the perimeter, so even if there's no room in lower level groups on the beach or at orc highway, a player can solo in between both and spectate during med/bw downtime.

Kunark has this too, but it's much more spread out, often beyond the max view distance. Not exactly copying Oasis, the actual lake of Ill Omen has bloodgills at its center but submerged, like the deepwater goblins, and instead of spectres, the point of interest is the monk epic fight that is supposed to take place on one of the platforms, but even so it's scarcely visible from the shore. That said, the zone's overall design allows for multiple groups and xp approaches, being so large that it accommodated GM events way back when that involved Faydedar. So really, the original idea was improved upon but tech limitations prevented it from being experienced as intended.

Not one example of this comes to mind immediately when thinking about Velious, other than the Ring War which despawns all of the targets a lower level player would otherwise be killing while witnessing the event unfold. Of course, raid-level players do sock Lodizal, but that waiting period isn't anything to spectate and very few would-be onlookers of lower level have reason to hang around there.

[Zuranthium]

I think Velious not having low level content is fine, it's supposed to be an inhospitable extreme biome where only the strongest creatures live. The bigger problem is the game forces high level players to mostly stay there the whole time, when it should have been a place you expedition to sometimes.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That would have made at least a large portion of GD more of a newbie zone, compared to what it is, where half of the layout goes unused and its river leads to...nowhere? Anticlimactic.

The river connecting to Wakening Land would spatially make sense but it needs to be limited somehow (can only enter it during a couple hours of the day perhaps), because otherwise there would be no "great divide" and no necessity of needing to go through Kael to get into the western part of Velious.