Spells: Bard Aggro

[Pindrought]

Is this ever going to be fixed?

[Duncanator583]

Thanks for gathering all this evidence Enn! Makes me sad this agro nerf ever happened

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20001109...ML/023416.html

Grimstaff
Station Member posted 10-15-2000 06:09 PM
I hate bumps, if you can't think of anything significant to move the dialog along, then that thread is better off dying and being buried in the mass of other messages.
That said, I really do wish Verant would take a good look WITH AN ACTUAL BARD CHARACTER at how incredibly poorly lullaby works. Not past level 30, but when you get it and immediately after. This thing isn't so much resisted then, although it usually won't work on some of the targets, it just holds so poorly that you will end up with 25-30% of the monsters at random beating on you. The worst part is that its not usually the same guy, its a mix of them, first is joe, than bob, then al, then bob again, then joe.... good luck for the poor tanks to taunt off you then.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000520...ML/000831.html

Midi
unregistered posted 03-01-2000 12:17 PM Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Usualy the ones I group with play manasong (stacks with ours) non-stop. Other useful songs will be healing post fight to help the healers, or a restance song of the appropriate type, the DD bellow, or charm release something for taunt(you know how well that works =).
An exmaple from last, on sol b bats cave:
me (49, then 48, then 49 enc)
45 bard
44 clr
45 war

45 pal later a 45 rog
41 nec later a 43 dru

Basically our speed spell is way faster the the bard song so I was casting STLW. Even clerity is better too I believe. With the mana song you get back the huge mana to cast this 2x. On bard I cast augment. Becuase of the incredible speed bonus of STLW and the near constant fighting, sometimes the bard would sing some kind of +sta song or the cleric or druid castd their energy song.

Esentially the bard was giving us every drop of mana he could. For 2-3 hours we were pulling bats and lava beetles almost non-stop after the break in. With clarity and the manasong we had enough mana to keep up with these pulls. The poor cleric was overworked having med for every last drop of mana for heas he could get. We got 2 bubbles of exp in those 2-3 hours. It was the best exp rate gain I have had in several levels, and it was all due to the massive non-stop pulls. Without clarity and manasong there was no way we got have managed that.

Other good uses would be KK for air. God type raid for twistong resistance songs and limited the damage done to you.

Bards and enchanters can work very well together.

https://web.archive.org/web/20001213.../010995-2.html

quantum9
Station Member posted 09-05-2000 06:19 PM
What i find annoying to no end is the fact that we are trying to accomplish something that will put bards back in balance with all the other classes... sure we are the jacks of all trades and we do everything but worse than the original... BUT this mez thingy... we cant do a lick of... all this is is taunting the mobs off the other charachters and if there is no healer type(cleric druid shaman) the bard is screwed... then the party is next... sure we heal... but ist a regen type heal and takes long... sure we STR buff... but we cant do nothing else... sure we snare... but we gotta sing it over and over... sure we mez.... wait a sec no we dont... we taunt crap... oh well... guess abashi in his great wisdom will once again ignore a major problem in favor of answering posts on the treeweave icon... >

https://web.archive.org/web/20001213.../010995-3.html

Methesula
Station Member posted 09-06-2000 10:31 AM
The bard mez song does have one nice taunt though.
We somtimes have a bard play this if something is whacking on one of our casters ... Bam instant aggro in the Bard. Bards can usually take quite a better ass whooping than a caster can... hehe

https://web.archive.org/web/20001209...age=0&Session=

New Message RE:Why are Bards so cool? (modified 0 times) Irony
Profile | Email
Hehe, reading the thread I notice that there are way too many people who don't exactly know what they're talking about.
Let's face it, bards are masters at nothing except versatility. While we can't heal as good as clerics, we heal better than warriors. While we can't buff as good as shamans, we buff much better than wizards. While we can't melee as good as monks, we melee much better than magicians. While we can't mez as good as chanters, we mez much better than SKs, while others have to med, we can continue kiting/charming/mezzing/healing/buffing and such. If you have a bard in your group, there will hardly be any situation that you can't handle. Bards have quite a few skills that most other classes lack: Safe Fall (absolutely necessary to avoid being killed by falling at high speed), Instill doubt (kinda gimmick, not too helpful but looks nice), Pick Lock (yes, we can pick some locks). You're in a dungeon and need to evac but the mobs keep hitting the dr00id/wizzy? AE fear will buy them the time necessary to cast (keep that memorized all the time, it's a lifesaver). Group invis, group water breathing, group protection (all resists can be addressed), group healing, group travel speed, group haste (30% haste at lvl 50 which is 10% more than the FBSS) and all that at *NO* mana cost. Not to mention the always-welcome chorus of clarity (and the upgrade song). BTW, the clarity songs (version one and two) beat the enchanter spells by a point or two. Oh, very handy: Group divine aura at level 60 (or 59?).
Yes, we can wield 2 weapons but since we have considerably low hp and are relatively weak, our main weapons are our instruments (try twisting the 2 chant songs (fire and cold) and fufil's with a drum on a mob, I guarantee you can taunt it off 3 warriors. Oh yes, we can snare, we have group damage shields...
You get the point: While we're not best at anything, we can do everything a bit. I have a 48 necro and a 47 bard (and 6 other chars below lvl 30). And the most noticeable difference between them all is: No class is as much fun to play as the bard.
I just wished, people knew more about bards. When I get into a group and tell them how bards handle things, they are usually amazed ('I didn't know bards could do THAT' or 'Weee...nifty song, great idea to twist it with that other song').
Just my 2cp....
Irony Truenote
Bard of (still) 47 songs on Innoruuk

Aug 31, 2000 05:14:50 A.M.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010512...ML/000693.html

Faeril_Tujim
Station Member posted 05-06-2001 02:47 PM
Generally a PB group need to be set up with a pocket of death already laid out. The puller (Bards are perfect) rounds up the victims is as large of a bunch as possible and tries to get them bunched up. He then runs them right into the pocket while using an AoE 'kill the Bard' taunting spell. When the pack arrives, the Enchanters chain color and the Druids, Wizards and Clerics start chain casting (using two spells typically) PB stuff. If the timing is good, the critters aren't standing long. Often a missed color will have something up and hitting but the Bard's taunt level is often high enough to keep it interested in killing him and not the casters.
At least, that is the theory. I've only played with it once and we never quite got it down to a science. We were missing the Bard (which I hear helps a lot) and just seemed to be spending too much time rounding them up and not enough time bringing them down. It is still a wonderful concept though.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020324...picID=40.topic

Lyri Prayerblade
Wolf
Posts: 16
(10/28/01 1:08:12 pm)
Reply Mid 20's group: Something to ponder
Hey, folks. I'm rethinking my role in our motley group. Up until level 25, I was a reasonable tank-substitute. This is less true as time goes on.

When we have a monk, shadowknight and rogue, I'm not sure I should be in there swinging my claws at mobs, especially when we have an enchanter who hastes tanks far more effectively than I.

The alternative would be that I twist something like this:

1) 24 str/dex 6ac buff (no brainer with rogue in group)
+
2a) 18% slow -5 ac AE debuff (doesn't break mez) or
2b) 18% slow single target snare
+
3a) 10 hp x3 tick healing (huge taunt factor) or
3b) 19 x3 DoT -13 AC debuff area effect does break mez
3c) 13 pt bellow
3d) 4 damage shield 3 ac party buff

What would we be losing? My damage. I dual wield (off weapon is not high damage) but don't double attack. I suspect my DoT song will do almost as much damage as I do at this point. Currently, I'm twisting:

1) 10% haste 17str buff (haste doesn't add to enchanter haste)
2) same as above
3) 10 x 3 DoT -7 AC debuff AE

I think the primary difference is that big str/dex/ac buff. It requires an instrument, so pretty much precludes me tanking when I use it.

What's the verdict? Is it time for me to stop playing tank and become the blueberry buff/debuff machine?


Cheers,
Harmonae

https://web.archive.org/web/20010505...ML/000032.html

a_disgruntled_Orc03
Station Member posted 04-23-2001 11:19 PM
Hmmmm. Bard vs. Cleric. My friend, you have unwittingly opened a whole new can of Fishing Grubs.
CLERICS (my main is a Cleric): Most of the time, you sit and med, and when necessary, pop up and heal. That's your life as a Cleric in a nutshell. However, whenever your group gets into a bad fight, you become the hero of the day. There is no better feeling than watching the last mob of a nasty pull die, with everyone at less than 2 bubs health, and you almost OOM, and knowing that YOU saved them from death. But I digress. Clerics have a simple job, but mastering that job isn't easy.

BARDS: Don't know much about bards. I see a lot of twinked bards in their shiny blue armor. I see a lot of tanking bards (mixed results here). Bards have to be able to twist songs (lol Lach) and deal with the immense mob-hate from healing and buffing your party and damaging them (the mobs) at the same time.

If I had to call from my limited experience, I'd say that Clerics are easier. You never have any doubt of what you should be doing, and you can always get into pickup groups, even at high levels. Of course, I've only been a Cleric for 15 levels, so maybe I'm not the one to ask

Asfaloth
Cleric of Brell
<Soul Guardians>
Xegony

Fyreheart
Station Member posted 04-24-2001 10:30 AM
The hardest thing about twisting is to learn the timing of when the songs take affect. That can be almost impossible to do while grouped because there are so very many things going on. The best thing that you can do to learn to twist is to practice constantly. You can try soloing a bit if you wish, learning twisting as you go. Or, you can twist non-harmful songs anywhere and everywhere. Learn the timing of when the song ends/takes affect. Once you have it the timing down solo (fighting or not), THEN try doing it with a group. It's MUCH harder to do in a group because you also need to learn to manage aggro as well as balance the given situation with the best song etc. There is just SO MUCH to do that learning twisting from scratch in a group situation would be HARD. Basically, there will be times in a group when you must stop attacking AND playing any songs to try to get the mob to shift attention to the group tank. There will be times when only one song is called for. Once get the healing song and can play the lute or mandolin, always take out the lute to heal during down time. Train your healers to med while you play.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010422...w_rep0102.html

2001/02/13
● Evade Bug Fix……That's mean Nerf =P ( EQCasters ) It seems that
　Evade has a Bug Fix . There was some talk about it a while ago, but it seems that the effect of Evade is going down. Does it mean that it's more difficult for mobs' hate to move around in Evade now (I'm not a Rog, so I don't know)? Currently, it is possible to create a state where it is difficult to be hit reliably by BS → Evade, but the purpose is to reduce Rog's outstanding Melee ability by making it impossible to hit BS without properly assessing the transition of Hate. I guess.
　Bard also has an Evade Song, but when Hate gets high, you have to use it two or three times to get rid of it, so I wonder if Evade itself will be similar.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010222.../000665-4.html

Digory
Station Member posted 02-20-2001 06:51 AM
I'm tired of the people who want bards to be and enchanter/warrior. That sounds boring to me. I like the tremendous flexibility I have as a bard. I get to adjust to both group classes and skills.
I heard Absor say defense would be improved. I don't particularly need much better melee skills. There is always someone to dish the damage, but bards take damage like little kids. Bards playing instruments or meleeing could use some defensive enhancements. Start dodge and parry earlier and give them much higher caps. It's not that hard to parry with an instrument. I have been a fencer and you'd be surprised how simple a weapon can be used to block any kind of blow. And many of our songs are major taunts.