Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbinbad
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Your perspective is limited to the point of comedy dude. What you suggest might have worked well in 1956, before This became a litigious society, but in today's world, should a kid put another kid in the hospital, it is likely they will enter the criminal justice system and end up paying for that for a large portion of their life. Not only that, but you forget the fundamental fact that most kids who are bullied are bullied because they are smaller and weaker than the bully or bullies who are attacking them. The only chance a kid like that would have is a weapon, which, as noted above, will probably only get them incarcerated in the real world. I personally was the victim of bullying in grade school, and I ended up doing what you suggest, but I am a big guy, and was able to actually handle myself. I would hate to have been small, and less able to defend myself. ..and before you start blathering about how "if you just hit them hard and fast enough you will make them cry," the bullies i had to deal with were inner city child-thugs, who probably would have shot me had they been just a couple years older.
Violence only begets violence, which only begets grief and suffering for everyone involved. Civilization is one tool that mankind has developed to end senseless violence, and every step we can take to go further down that road is a step in the right direction.
Pacifism wins. Ask the followers of Ghandi, who were so recently a destitute 3rd world shithole, now on the verge of being the world's 3rd or 4th richest and most industrious power. Had any job offers lately?
I'm not saying that people should not defend themselves, but it is completely ludicrous for anyone to say that the powers that be in the relevant systems should not do everything in their power to stop violence - physical, mental, or emotional - from being visited on children by mean and/or older children, and you - and everyone else here doing so - should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. You are horrible people.
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I think there's an assumption that violence is the only way to "deal with" bullies other than having teachers/school admins/etc enforce hardnosed, silly rules about it.
I also don't think violence always begets violence - there are retaliatory actions which are in measure, and there are some which are not in measure. Casey Heynes' retaliation was in measure. The Columbine Shooters' was not.
There's nothing wrong with defending yourself physically after violence has already been done to you - although it's not always the best course of action. Kids shouldn't be penalized if they actually responded appropriately, which I think Casey Heynes did. He didn't kick the living crap out of the kid, or kick him in the ribs when he was down, or jump on top of him and start beating him - he gave him one swift retaliation, and then walked off.
It is healthy for kids to get the idea early on that there are people who want to be mean for their own stupid pleasures or to satisfy themselves. You have to have the individual fortitude to physically fight back if you're physically attacked (within parameters of the rules), but also to develop the mental fortitude to deal with insults - and not necessarily physically. See RnF. If you can't deal with people treating you badly without going postal or crying to authorities because someone called you a poopie head, stay off the internet - you probably need psychological help.
However, it's ridiculous to say that school admins and authorities shouldn't be involved at certain levels of bullying.
There are lines - hacking into someone's myspace account and posting all kinds of demeaning crap, photo-shopping pictures and passing them around school, following someone after school, etc. If a kid has no means of resolving the situation, he does need those in charge of him to step up and be there.
Teaching kids to escalate verbal disputes or insults into physical ones would be entirely the wrong message - but when you're Casey Heynes, an overweight but peaceful kid who gets harassed by some scrawny kid who punches you in the face and won't leave you alone, you body slam that kid and show him that the instant you use violence against me, i'll respond accordingly. I won't go too far - but I won't take your crap forever.
If a kid simply isn't strong enough to retaliate - He has to find other ways of dealing with it, and if he's 70 pounds and his bully is 140 and severely athletic, he simply has no other option other than authorities. There's no shame in that - you have to protect yourself somehow, and any School admins who know this is happening and don't do something to stop it are absolutely negligent. They shouldn't do nothing because "They dealt with it when they were growing up."
Also, the Gandhi method only works if your opponent has a conscience. Yes, turn the other cheek - but eventually you run out of cheeks to turn.
As Bertrand Russell said: "It is doubtful that the method of Mahatma Gandhi would have succeeded except that he was appealing to the conscience of a Christianized people."