This is very true, was a rogue on live. Was a rogues dream to come across casters medding and one shotting them. First hit always did max dmg, following hits hit as normal. In the case of double Backstab, first would land for max and second for normal.

I see what you're getting at, but there is little doubt that the hits, themselves, that land should be doing less damage on average on a higher AC person who is wearing chain as oppose to cloth, adding the misses or not. If you try to justify the misses as making up for the obvious flaw in what the damage of the hits are you are sadly mistaken.

I literally touched nothing in the mitigation code because I figured testing done by players on beta would provide much better results than anything I could do by myself. In the small amount of mitigation testing I did before betas release it appeared that AC was having an impact on damage.

Nothing was said prior to the event about AC or mitigation in general and the resist code was getting mostly positive feedback aside from 'its not classic'. We dumped large amounts of high level gear into the population, shifting people out of low-medium gear levels into best in slot situations and dregs freak out because shit isn't working flawlessly.

Thats the whole damn point of beta guys, you need to chill the fuck out.

Nerfed - 50 cleric (717 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 909 attack)
Same weapon (Enameled Black Mace 8dmg/28dly). Ranger has fire beetle in off hand.

[Tue Nov 01 18:05:46 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:46 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:49 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:50 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:54 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:55 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] You crush Slayer for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:00 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:00 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:03 2011] You crush Slayer for 3 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:03 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:06 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:06 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:09 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:11 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:11 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:12 2011] You crush Slayer for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:12 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:13 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:13 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] You crush Slayer for 6 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:17 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:17 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:19 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:20 2011] You crush Slayer for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:20 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:25 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:26 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:26 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:27 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:29 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:29 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] You crush Slayer for 7 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:33 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:33 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:34 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:35 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 28 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:40 2011] You crush Slayer for 3 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:40 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:41 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:41 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:43 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:44 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:44 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:45 2011] You crush Slayer for 7 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:45 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:46 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:51 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:54 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:56 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:57 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:57 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:58 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:00 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:00 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:04 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:04 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:05 2011] You crush Slayer for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:05 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:08 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:10 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:11 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:11 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:12 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:16 2011] You crush Slayer for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:16 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] You crush Slayer for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:21 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:22 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:23 2011] Your resist poison fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:25 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:25 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:27 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:28 2011] You crush Slayer for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:28 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:29 2011] Your resist disease fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:30 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:33 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:33 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Your resist magic fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:36 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:36 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nerfed - 50 cleric (634 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 1073 attack)

[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:39 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:40 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:40 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] You crush Slayer for 11 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:44 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:45 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:46 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 42 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:51 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:51 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:56 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:56 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:59 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:59 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:00 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:02 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:02 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:05 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:11 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:12 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:13 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:15 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:16 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] You crush Slayer for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 37 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:22 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:25 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer parries!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:25 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] You crush Slayer for 2 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:30 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] You crush Slayer for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 26 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:35 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:36 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:37 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] You crush Slayer for 17 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:41 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:41 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:43 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:43 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:44 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:44 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:45 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:45 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.

Nerfed, that just shows that a ranger melee skill pwns a clerics which should be the case......

Someone who can should go up against another of the same class who is naked using same weapon vs you being armored and having higher ac. That would be a very good test.

Like you 50 cleric, enamled black mace 700 ac vs a 50 cleric, same weapon, naked with super low ac.

it shows nothing, thats not parsing any relevant sample size. have you people ever had a statistics class in middle school? all info you need to understand this concept is learned there.

This is what pisses me off about the trolls claiming that Null has this hidden agenda to implement vz/tz shit and he's trying to manipulate his own version of classic. New flash mother fuckers, most peoples version of classic is different and you're expecting one guy who - who's volunteering, to fix everything after a month and please a wide range of opinions.

Yeah Darksinga, I was really the mvp of that event, it wasn't the healers/bard/necro and I'm trying to fight for rogues to be OP - infact I find it hilarious if people read that post and make a rogue because of it, enjoy retards you just got majorly trolled.

fyp

The goal of that log was to see if AC and ATK were having a noticeable impact damage output, not to actually figure out what the gains were (hence the small sample). All that it needs to show is that the ranger (or rogue or warrior in the other logs) were getting an increase in damage output from large differences in AC and ATK.

The big thing that I am noticing is that AC and ATK is pretty constant among players (probably due to wearing a bunch of resist gear). I do not remember a whole hell of a lot about AC and ATK numbers from back then. Was this the case and if it was, did the weapon/defensive skills seperate melee classes from casters or was there an underline mechanic in place that made sure melees hit harder than casters?

I guess what I am asking is IF a melee and a caster had the same stats, weapon and skills, would the melee still hit on average harder than the caster?