Redgar, I've always liked you, but you sir are the one turning this into an RNF thread. Calm your roll.

At this point, I consider this thread over. I think FE/IB and Sloan made some really good points and hopefully the rest of this debate can be hashed out in the game between the leadership. Thanks.

ITT: FE/IB rule lawyer their way into as many dragons as they want to kill

FE/IB should either merge or get the divorce over with. If IB is the same IB that TMO ran off the server; well, welcome back. And if FE is the remians of VD; well congradulations; you didn't get ran off the server. Both guilds have reached their goal; stop TMO from getting 99% of the raid mobs. Now that that goal has been accomplished; it is time for FE/IB to go their seperate ways. If you do not want TMO to try and skirt the rules; then you should be expected to do the same. If IB/FE are really so different; then it won't be hard to stop raiding together.

You're violating the spirit of the bag limit by nearly only raiding separately when it allows you to shirk the rule. Yes I know it's not against the rules, but the rules should be different then.

Instead of lawyering and basically telling us to do something equally cheesy, why don't we find a solution? This is absurd and you know it.

I will admit it's kind of funny to see the parallel between this and the IB/VD Trak rotation, except this time IB is the little sister =)

No spirit of anything is being violated. FE and IB have split on repops before this bag limit was introduced, and have no intention of changing our behavior because you dont like the fact that you have to compete against a strong combined force on non-repops. There is really nothing to talk about. If you want to ally with a guild on non-repops to boost your attendance, feel free to do so...

FE has nothing to do with VD - most VD people stayed in BDA. The people who formed FE had fleeting connections with both VD and IB. Any Ex-VD and Ex-IB people came to FE because they didnt want to go to TMO, and that is the extent of the relationship. FE wasnt old money regardless of who wants to paint it that way now.

As far as the current relationship between FE and IB goes - that is not for people like you to determine. TMO hasnt got 99% of the raid mobs for a very long time now - if that was our goal it was over months after FE was formed. Our goal is to compete with TMO and win, and if we need to combine forces to achieve that then we will do so. Worry about your own guilds and stop crying.

On the repop you didn't jointly raid, which targets did each of your guilds get?

I think FE got Trak and Gore, and IB got Inny and Sev

Please show me the rule that says two guilds that have raided together on non repop mobs are forced to share a bag limit. Theres no lawyering going on here because the rules are very clear.

Also all this talk about alt guilds and such is dumb because FE and IB have been doing this since long before the new raid system, and are two entirely different guilds.

So it's ok to be cheesy as fuck and only raid separately to evade a bag limit as long as you were doing so before the new rules?

Hardly acceptable criteria.

I take back my former statement in regards to not thinking anyone on this thread was a moran.