God is Santa Claus for adults

[Taxi]

When youre bad, you dont get the good stuff at the end of the year/your life.

Big bearded white guy in his 50s-60s.

The people who make this stuff up always at some point get tangled in their lies and say something contradictory about him.

Any other resemblance?

[Landis]

Santa Claus is more probable

[Taxi]

They are both drawn in the sky. God with his santa claus-like face in the clouds, and santa claus passing through with his elk parade.

[Ihealyou]

At least I get presents at Christmas that say Santa on them.

[pickled_heretic]

religion bashing.... *yawn*

[Landis]

Santa Claus presumably has sex (with Mrs. Claus) but has no kids
God did not have sex, but had a son

[Taxi]

http://political-analysis.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sch-clash-holidays.jpg

[Taxi]

I cant edit it lol

[redghosthunter]

In some situations Santa is God... Like Santa Barbara Strippers....

http://www.dancingbeauty.com/Female-Exotic-Dancers/Santa-Barbara-CA.htm

:)

[Alawen Everywhere]

If you're honestly curious about this, google for "proto indo-european religion". The sky god aka Zeus aka Jupiter aka Yahweh aka Jehovah aka Allah aka God and many others originally had a consort who was later edited out by patriarchs to diminish female roles in society. The sky god's consort was named Asherah and other variations.

I spent years trying to figure out why other people seemed to get something out of religion and prayer and so on and I got nothing but a sore back from kneeling.

Eventually I realized that it's because most of them are stupid and afraid of death and they invented a fairy tale to make themselves feel better. Some of the others don't believe any of the bullshit at all and just treat it all as a big social gathering.

Regardless, it's all bullshit. We're here because we're here, the meaning of life is to be happy, and when you are dead you will cease to exist.

[jilena]

I thought the meaning of life was to fuck and make more people who also want to fuck?

[pickled_heretic]

I thought the meaning of life was to fuck and make more people who also want to fuck?

If you could say there's a meaning of life, this is probably the closest you could get.

[Taxi]

To me theres not "a meaning to life". Theres a meaning to your life. What would you like to have out of your life. Chances are you wont have it but i think meaning is a personal thing and trying to describe a meaning to life in general is as futile as trying to understand how they put caramel in the caramilk.

[ShadowWulf]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

http://www.freewebs.com/chednasad//photos/random-amusing/khorne.jpg

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[braveheart]

if the bible said the only way to attain heaven was to commit suicide at age 30 would you do it? wake.... up...

[pickled_heretic]

if the bible said the only way to attain heaven was to commit suicide at age 30 would you do it? wake.... up...

If the bible said you had to commit suicide at 30, it wouldn't have become the paramount religious document it is today.

The bible is successful in part because it propogates successful methods of transmission (live long and prosper, go forth and spread the word etc.). It wouldn't have been nearly as successful if it told everyone to kill themselves.

[Taxi]

if the bible said the only way to attain heaven was to commit suicide at age 30 would you do it? wake.... up...

I never read the bible with much intent of understanding it as a youngster.
I was a choirboy in the biggest church in Montreal and i think there wasnt a single kid in there who was a beleiver. When i was 12 years old in a religion course, i got scolded hard by my teacher for writing "fuck god" on the side of my bible, "Raisin" was the exact quote he used, over and over. "YOU HAVE TO BE A RAISIN, TO WRITE THAT ON YOUR BIBLE". I was a bit ruffled, but really, how ruffled can you get from being called a raisin.

Ok so yea, back to the subject. When i was 15, i picked up the bible while babysitting and really gave it a good read, just because i just didnt like religion in general and wanted to see what was in there.

OMG! the first time i read Genesis i was like WTF! this god says that jews escape in the desert, and egyptians dont follow. God, in his infinite wisdom and caring, decides to control the mind of the soldiers and sends them after the jews in the desert so he can drown them all by slapping waves at them from both sides of the desert. I dont remember the rest but that really stroke me as a wtf moment, crazy fucking god, i understand why there was so much wars over this bullshit now.

[braveheart]

i didnt ask why its successful or not, i asked would you kill yourself if the bible said to. no believe of the faith can answer this question because they are brainwashed, they only avoid the question.

[Thoughtseize]

if the bible said the only way to attain heaven was to commit suicide at age 30 would you do it? wake.... up...

That's like asking if you'd give someone a knife to who wants to cut you to pieces to "make you better"

But if that someone is a doctor you'd do it. We let doctors cycle our blood through machines, slice open our chest cavities, all sorts of things we wouldn't let just anyone do. It'd be ridiculous for someone to say, "wake up" why listen to a doctor.

For Christians the issue isn't what the Bible says, it's the person behind it - the belief that it is God speaking.

[Taxi]

For Christians the issue isn't what the Bible says, it's the person behind it - the belief that it is God speaking.

And that is fucking scary to me. Because no matter what angle youre coming at hardcore fanatics from, no matter if i pull out this 1940s catechism book that says jews worship the devil and says the church is always right because god speaks through the church and show it to them, it wont matter, its blind faith, like lemmings at a cliff.

[Thoughtseize]

It's not blind. Essentially everyone has some sort of presupposition and that ultimate presupposition leads to circular reasoning.

For example you presuppose reason you have to use reason to prove your case. And the Christian presupposes the Bible and has to then use the Bible to prove his/her case.

This however doesn't mean you can't look at other evidence to investigate the claims. You can have wider or narrower circles. You can use other information to supplement each sides circular reasoning to compare one to another.

So it's not as if you're left without ground to examine each others beliefs. Even Christians have to admit they need more than "just the Bible." Apart from ideas outside of the Bible they wouldn't even be able to read or understand it.

[Taxi]

I say its blind because you cant get most people out of the churches.

No matter how you talk about how the church enforced beleif during centuries under penalty of death, that they put people like Giordano Bruno on a stake and burned them for claiming that stars in the sky at night were suns just like our own. No matter how much you talk to them about how transparently manipulative church doctrines were if you go back just a little in time.

If it wasnt blind faith, they would start asking themselves question because the church hasnt changed much, it just adjusted its speech a bit. The church is still trying to push for horrific things like going to Africa and saying condoms are bad when the continent is caught in an AIDS epidemic.

To me the fact that they are blind relates more to the fact that they dont really see how christian faith is abused alot of the times, then theyre beleif that the bible is the voice of god. Even though theres plenty of horrific shit in the bible as well.

Faith in a god disturbs me less than faith in the christian church, because at least with the faith in god there is some room to think still.

Something in me tells me that the reason why christianity got so strong historically is because its beleifs were shoved down peoples throats at the end of a sword and that alone got me suspicious, even as a kid.

[Alawen Everywhere]

The reason Christianity got so strong historically is literacy. Clergy could read and almost no one else could.

[Taxi]

The reason Christianity got so strong historically is literacy. Clergy could read and almost no one else could.

But still, it wasnt a good idea to call yourself an atheist in 1350... At least thats something that we have to give muslims historically, they were far more tolerant to other beleifs than their own.

Maybe thats why Christianity had to spread the way it did, because islam was more civilized and more appealing.

[Malrubius]

Man, you guys (atheists, agnostics, christians, and everyone else here it seems) have the most primitive view of religion. Kind of sad, really. It can't be real because it's an old man in the sky! lol. As was said before, yawn.
:p

[Taxi]

Man, you guys (atheists, agnostics, christians, and everyone else here it seems) have the most primitive view of religion. Kind of sad, really. It can't be real because it's an old man in the sky! lol. As was said before, yawn.
:p

Well i have many many reasons to view christian religion as bullshit, but the white bearded guy in the sky is a good start, yea. :D

That doesnt mean i dont respect people like Martin Luther King, Desmond Tutu and Oscar Romero. At the same time that faith in the afterlife can cause some really bad shit, for these guys, it gives them a courage that ill probably never have. Id probably stop before getting shot in the chest like Romero.

[pickled_heretic]

I just can't be bothered to care about religion shenanigans. Sorry, I tackled my demons when I was in my teens.... been there, done that. Can we move on to something more interesting?

[Taxi]

I just can't be bothered to care about religion shenanigans. Sorry, I tackled my demons when I was in my teens.... been there, done that. Can we move on to something more interesting?

Youre welcomed to start a thread on the possibility of life in a sea underneath the icy crust of Jupiter's moon Europa if you like... or whatev. Although that would have gotten you burned to the stake in 1600...

[braveheart]

you let doctors slice you open? what the hell lol ive never been sliced open or operated on....

[braveheart]

i dont trust doctors one bit...

[Dork]

you let doctors slice you open? what the hell lol ive never been sliced open or operated on....

I have

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d111/Geistlich/eww.jpg

[Akame]

The bible is the best drama ever written, it's got murder, mayhem, betrayal, romance, treason, war, plague, famine, heroes, heroines, and an apocalyptic and glorious ending.

90% of people who think they're Christians definitely get it totally wrong, but the bible is still a damn good read even if the fanatics skew the meanings all over the place.

[pickled_heretic]

I'd be paralyzed from the waist down if it wasn't for surgery - sorry, but modern medicine doesn't need to prove itself to me any more than it already has.

[Erasong]

I'd be paralyzed from the waist down if it wasn't for surgery - sorry, but modern medicine doesn't need to prove itself to me any more than it already has.

This is something we can touch and feel.

[Erasong]

for the record im not against religion. of against fanatics of all types tho. unwavering faith =\= blind faith.

[Akame]

This is something we can touch and feel.

I strangely feel like quoting "Can you see the wind?" but I forget what speech that came from.

[Erasong]

of = im. no editing allowed.

[pickled_heretic]

This is something we can touch and feel.

What is your point?

[Erasong]

I strangely feel like quoting "Can you see the wind?" but I forget what speech that came from.

i can feel the wind! I can touch the guy who died from poisoned gas. I can see the results of many things that I did not know was there. I would like to see the results of hard prayer and nothing else.

[Erasong]

What is your point?

dont get all defensive. you are allowed to believe whatever you want and i do not fault you for it. I personally tho feel if you pray in 1 hand and shit in the other, see which will fill first.

[pickled_heretic]

dont get all defensive. you are allowed to believe whatever you want and i do not fault you for it. I personally tho feel if you pray in 1 hand and shit in the other, see which will fill first.

You don't know what I believe. Now, what was your point?

[Erasong]

You don't know what I believe. Now, what was your point?

I dont need to know what you believe to respect your right to it, and expect the same from you.

[pickled_heretic]

I dont need to know what you believe to respect your right to it, and expect the same from you.

Can you answer the fucking question? Holy shit. Just answer the question. You're starting to look like a politician. You did something in a public forum, you can expect that your actions may come under scrutiny. If you can't deal with that then maybe you should stay out of the lens of the public forum.

[Erasong]

Can you answer the fucking question? Holy shit. Just answer the question. You're starting to look like a politician. You did something in a public forum, you can expect that your actions may come under scrutiny. If you can't deal with that then maybe you should stay out of the lens of the public forum.

I guess if you cant figure it out, are going to resort to swearing and getting irate, ill spell it out simple for you. The guy was responding to someone talking about not trusting doctors, said they dont have to prove themselves becuase they have time and time again. That was the "this is something we can touch and feel" comment your so obsessed over. My point is blind faith cant be used to prove there is a god. That is why its called faith. I choose to trust in things that can be proven to me. I dont know why you need to get all bent out of shape either. Relax a bit. I realize this is just an online forum but cmon, at least act like an ass to someone who deserves it.

[Branaddar]

Whatever your personal beliefs are, why mock someone else's?

If somebody can find comfort and a moral guideline in something that makes a positive change in their life, isn't that a good thing?

Sure, some people abuse religions and should be punished for it, but a lot of people make positive change in their own lives and the lives around them through those beliefs.

Incidentally, I'm atheist before you start bashing my religion defense.

[Toony]

Whatever your personal beliefs are, why mock someone else's?

If somebody can find comfort and a moral guideline in something that makes a positive change in their life, isn't that a good thing?

Sure, some people abuse religions and should be punished for it, but a lot of people make positive change in their own lives and the lives around them through those beliefs.

Incidentally, I'm atheist before you start bashing my religion defense.

The world would be a much better place to live if more folks had this attitude.

[pickled_heretic]

I guess if you cant figure it out, are going to resort to swearing and getting irate, ill spell it out simple for you. The guy was responding to someone talking about not trusting doctors, said they dont have to prove themselves becuase they have time and time again. That was the "this is something we can touch and feel" comment your so obsessed over. My point is blind faith cant be used to prove there is a god. That is why its called faith. I choose to trust in things that can be proven to me. I dont know why you need to get all bent out of shape either. Relax a bit. I realize this is just an online forum but cmon, at least act like an ass to someone who deserves it.

#1. Rants and flames. Sorry but I just can't be bothered with a thread that doesn't have ranting and flaming here. I thought I saw an opportunity to bring this thread into the realm of 'RnF' rather than just another OT thread in the RnF section.

#2. Blind faith can't be used to prove anything? No, I suppose not. But what you don't realize is that every single metaphysical entity that you accept as an individual is also unprovable. Concepts like "Justice," "free will" and "love" do not exist in any physical sense. We can ascribe characteristics to them but they are formless to us and therefore we can not be said to truly know them.

#3. What is my point? My point is that when you say you "trust in things that are proven to you" You actually mean you "trust in things that you accept on faith" since basic, foundational concepts such as objective reality can never be irrefutably proven by their definitions.

[Akame]

Whatever your personal beliefs are, why mock someone else's?

If somebody can find comfort and a moral guideline in something that makes a positive change in their life, isn't that a good thing?

Sure, some people abuse religions and should be punished for it, but a lot of people make positive change in their own lives and the lives around them through those beliefs.

Incidentally, I'm atheist before you start bashing my religion defense.

Well spoken! (For an atheist! :P )

[Lazortag]

Except lots of people reasonably don't believe in free will, love, or any absolute concept of "justice" so your second point is unbelievably dumb. Like, have you really never heard of the debate over whether people have free will? Seriously?

Personally I don't really understand how you can believe in something for which you have no evidence and for which there could never be any evidence, especially something with implications like the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient being. Most atheists don't hold the position that God doesn't exist, but rather that they can't know and that committing themselves to the belief in God is like committing yourself to a belief in fairies.

[Lazortag]

...

#2. Blind faith can't be used to prove anything? No, I suppose not. But what you don't realize is that every single metaphysical entity that you accept as an individual is also unprovable. Concepts like "Justice," "free will" and "love" do not exist in any physical sense. We can ascribe characteristics to them but they are formless to us and therefore we can not be said to truly know them....

I was responding to this btw.

[Taxi]

Most atheists don't hold the position that God doesn't exist, but rather that they can't know and that committing themselves to the belief in God is like committing yourself to a belief in fairies.

Those are called agnostics.

To me religion is just manipulation of the fear of death in humans, for personal profit. Like egyptians pharoahs getting to fuck 50 women a year and living large. Maybe they even beleived it, but bottom line is that its transparently self-serving.

[Lazortag]

Are you an idiot?

[Erasong]

#1. Rants and flames. Sorry but I just can't be bothered with a thread that doesn't have ranting and flaming here. I thought I saw an opportunity to bring this thread into the realm of 'RnF' rather than just another OT thread in the RnF section.

#2. Blind faith can't be used to prove anything? No, I suppose not. But what you don't realize is that every single metaphysical entity that you accept as an individual is also unprovable. Concepts like "Justice," "free will" and "love" do not exist in any physical sense. We can ascribe characteristics to them but they are formless to us and therefore we can not be said to truly know them.

#3. What is my point? My point is that when you say you "trust in things that are proven to you" You actually mean you "trust in things that you accept on faith" since basic, foundational concepts such as objective reality can never be irrefutably proven by their definitions.

allow me to retort.

1) You may not be able to be bothered with a thread that has no ranting or flaming, but i dont recall you being explicitly invited either. You could have just kept it moving or better yet, waited for someone deserving of your interweb ire. Not that im crying in a corner, it just seemed silly to fight with a rather neutral response. Like you were just itching to pick an e-brawl.

2) Im glad we agree on faith being unprovable. The next part of your statement gets rather philisophical and I am no Poet and will not pretend to be some great intellectual. I will do the best I can with these. I know the feeling of "Justice" arises from the accountability of an offending party based on ones own ethics. THAT is real. It changes from person to person based on the ethical nature of the individual but that doesnt make the idea of justice itself any less real. Its something you can indeed feel. Free will may or may not exist and I tip my hat to you for even mentioning this one. Kudo's. Love does exist as an emotional state. I have children and again, have felt it. I know it's there. Now you may argue that people can "feel" god, but i can only say from where i sit, i never have. Ive witnessed others feel a sense of purpose, fullfiment, indeed many other things they attribute to religion, but never actually, god.

3) when i say i trust in things proven to me, it was a statement made AFTER you asked me my point so I dont see how its relvant but I'll delve into it anyway. I will give you this much, I have "faith" that scientific method was used to prove the existance of things i accept. The thing about science is everything starts out a theory. It doesnt mean it wont be proven in the future. There are theories of things that can not be irrefutably proven that are accepted as factual by the majority is there not? Im really not 100% on that its a question.

I mean it goes back to what I was saying, Im no great intellectual. I know when someone is trying to call me ignorant tho. If you're looking to browbeat me into some position by pointing out my limited knowledge of subject matter not in the debate, I say stay on topic please. I will even say im wrong about everything Ive said. It doesnt matter to me that much. I have no idea if there is a god and if someone can prove to me there IS one id be much obliged.

[braveheart]

christianty = hitler
hitler = brainwashing
hitler= death
hitler = corruption
hitler = lies

do the math

[Akame]

christianty = hitler
hitler = brainwashing
hitler= death
hitler = corruption
hitler = lies

do the math

Braveheart = If one person in a group did wrong, all are to blame... You do realize there are thirty THOUSAND Christian denominations in the world, right?

[braveheart]

thirty THOUSAND Christian denominations = hitler

do the math

[Akame]

thirty THOUSAND Christian denominations = hitler

do the math

I keep running these numbers but the only equation I keep coming up with is braveheart = Utter dumbass

[braveheart]

hahaha to each his own

[pickled_heretic]

christianty = hitler


Is this guy fucking serious?

[braveheart]

very, read some history books

[Taxi]

very, read some history books

I suggest you look up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93scar_Romero

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

I dislike religions, but it doesnt mean that every religious person is gonna make bad choices...

[Akame]

Is this guy fucking serious?

No he's not, he's using a strategic form of calculation called Maths (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI). What you don't notice in his posts above are his direct correlations to Imhotep.

Basically to sum it up for you, he's a jaded sob lumping faith in with organized religion that has historically brought disaster. Which is not Christianity since Christianity is a movement that started 2000 years ago to overthrow organized religion. Then again, America has the wrong definition of Christianity in their internal dictionaries, so I can see how his twisted mind thinks christianity = hitler.

[braveheart]

lol

[Alawen Everywhere]

In a few million more points, you'll refine your concepts of moral relativism and begin to explore existentialism.

This really is a silly thread. No one is going to change his or her mind in the least bit based on this conversation. Most of us believe what our parents told us about things like creation and what happens after we die. The downside to this conversation is drawing an unintended line in the sand for us to alienate each other. This is, incidentally, my biggest beef with organized religion--the escalation of philosophical conversation into war.

[Taxi]

very, read some history books

In a few million more points, you'll refine your concepts of moral relativism and begin to explore existentialism.

This really is a silly thread. No one is going to change his or her mind in the least bit based on this conversation. Most of us believe what our parents told us about things like creation and what happens after we die. The downside to this conversation is drawing an unintended line in the sand for us to alienate each other. This is, incidentally, my biggest beef with organized religion--the escalation of philosophical conversation into war.

Hence, why i posted it in R&F and not in off-topic. Thanks you for playing.

[Taxi]

And i dont know how the braveheart quote ended up there ^^

[astarothel]

http://www.youtube.com/user/MisterSharp#p/u/4/WIIknwATn-U

[Taxi]

http://www.youtube.com/user/MisterSharp#p/u/4/WIIknwATn-U

That was quite good, made me think of fallout.