I hate this perma-camping shit

[Taxi]

The camping rules are so much like WoW that its turning me off the game. In the beginning i didnt care because i was all about seeing stuff i didnt see. But thats mostly done now. I will roll a necro once Kunark hits so that will entertain me for another while.

But back to this camping shit.

The way things are, you can just sit at a mob, like the best Lguk mobs, and kill till you get tired of it. Then you pass the torch to someone in your guild.

So basically, in theory, once a guild has got a lockdown on the best mobs in the game, if they dont fuck-up, they can camp it for months, and if you try to stop them from doing that, youll get banned.

Just the fact that people are suggesting calendars for raid mobs is making me chuckle in my head to no end.

I dont have the pretense of having a solution to it, although if i had to cut, id make it FFA. So im posting here instead of polluting the threads of people that try to be constructive in server chat. Also, all these fucking babies ruining the constructive threads in server chat makes me wish this was a pvp server.

[Reiyz]

I personally feel camps should be abolished, making it first come first serve, first to agro the mob (hey, a use for fraps/screen shots) gets it, every time all the time.

But too many bluebie faggots play on this server for any serious sort of ruleset. It's carebear or gtfo up in here yo.

[Rogean]

FFA Would mean 2-3 guilds literally sitting on the spawn of a mob.

Then what? The mob spawns, probably aggroes someone automatically right away, and then all 3 guilds go into a kill steal fest for the win? And if/when we do get logs of who actually was on aggro first, we take away the loot, suspend the kill stealing guild, and give it to the guild that was lucky to get first aggro?

How does that make any sense.

[Reiker]

Nah, the group that gets the loot gets the loot and you leave it at that.

Tru EQ Classic style.

[Reiyz]

FFA Would mean 2-3 guilds literally sitting on the spawn of a mob.

Then what? The mob spawns, probably aggroes someone automatically right away, and then all 3 guilds go into a kill steal fest for the win? And if/when we do get logs of who actually was on aggro first, we take away the loot, suspend the kill stealing guild, and give it to the guild that was lucky to get first aggro?

How does that make any sense.

Eh, I suppose your right. At the same time I can't really hate on guilds passing camps from guildie to guildie - if I were in their situation I'd do the exact same thing.

But, culling the population of idiots wouldn't be such a bad idea. Ban instead of suspend imo.

[Bumamgar]

It makes sense because it would only happen a few times before guilds got tired of getting suspended and 'rolling the dice' on who was lucky enough to get first agro. They'd stop camping the spawn because they'd know that camping the spawn was as likely to get you suspended as it was to get you the mob. Yeah, it'd take a hard-core smackdown or two before it stuck, but in the end it would result in less camping.

[Reiyz]

Nah, the group that gets the loot gets the loot and you leave it at that.

Tru EQ Classic style.

Truth!

[Rogean]

And then you guys would be right back here bitching about waiting for a mob to spawn and 5 minutes before it does another guild swoops in and happens to have a group that does the most damage.

No matter what system is in place there is always complaints about it.

[xorbier]

QQ.
I hate to break it to you but the people who put in more effort get more stuff. This is 100% as it was in live. The good news for you is that once Kunark is released the classic content will open up more than it is today and there will be much more new stuff to camp.

[Reiyz]

Bumamgar is a fucking developer here?

Wooooooah. At least he has security in knowing his guild won't be getting banned for MQ2 use here.

[Rogean]

Bumamgar is a fucking developer here?

Wooooooah. At least he has security in knowing his guild won't be getting banned for MQ2 use here.

Enjoy your staff insult suspension.

[Reiker]

And then you guys would be right back here bitching about waiting for a mob to spawn and 5 minutes before it does another guild swoops in and happens to have a group that does the most damage.

No matter what system is in place there is always complaints about it.

At least the complaints would go from "I hate these guys cause they just sit in one spot for days" to "I hate these guys cause they're better geared / better at out DPSing me" which is a much less valid complaint.

[Rogean]

Actually it would result in a GM having to investigate first aggro and re-awarding loot and possibly suspensions, as I've had that happen to my guild on live (Realm of Insanity vs Fires of Heaven on Trakanon anyone?)

It is a COMPLETE luck situation with whoever the code decides to aggro first.

[Rogean]

It is a COMPLETE luck situation with whoever the code decides to aggro first.

Which now that I think about it would probably be the person in zone the longest, since its done by a std::list<> iteration, hmmm

[Shannacore]

Which now that I think about it would probably be the person in zone the longest, since its done by a std::list<> iteration, hmmm

STD's? :eek:

[Reiker]

I guess The Sleeper was less civilized than Combine. Like... early in Kunark there was 3 guild KS fest on Venril as soon as he popped.

[Zordana]

there is one good solution which would work, be nice and share.. but i fear that this is not enough :/

[Rogean]

Which now that I think about it would probably be the person in zone the longest, since its done by a std::list<> iteration, hmmm

Now that I think about it again, the check for aggro doesn't come from an npc process, it comes from a client process... so yea it would be down to luck on timers in client process.

[Reiker]

We 3-manned / stole Phinny from 2 full guilds (20-30ish people) who kept high sunning him from each other.

Ak'Anon Strike Force leap frogged us in Seb and trained Trakanon on us on the bridge while we were still prepping (we killed it).

Tormax was getting trained between IV and Warpath for like half an hour.

Warpath trained like all of Kael on us while we were fighting AoW.

etc etc.

[Taxi]

FFA Would mean 2-3 guilds literally sitting on the spawn of a mob.

Then what? The mob spawns, probably aggroes someone automatically right away, and then all 3 guilds go into a kill steal fest for the win? And if/when we do get logs of who actually was on aggro first, we take away the loot, suspend the kill stealing guild, and give it to the guild that was lucky to get first aggro?

How does that make any sense.

I was more talking about regular 20ish+ named mobs then raid mobs, which i dont have experience with. But i can see its the same "claiming" pattern.

At least with FFA it keeps people on their toes on where the numbers will be.
THEN guilds could brag about mobilizing. If a guild wants to put 5 people on hadden cuz they really want that fishbone earring drop, well let players sort it between themselves who wants it the most.

I think it would actually help soloers more than anything, because if some afk "non-boxer" cant claim hadden (dont mean to say they are all boxers, but im pretty sure there is some boxing, so unless youre sitting there next to the guy in RL, you cant really tell for sure), then if you were afk playing your alt or playing another game, watching TV when he popped its too bad, GL next time. It would also leave the spawns some breathing space. If hadden can get taken away from you easy, then not so much people would perma-camp mobs. Then you could have a pleasant surprise in QH with Hadden up and no one camping him.

Im not sure whats the solution, i played on a pvp server so it was pretty cutthroat and people didnt whine for their entitlements like you see here, it would get your corpse camped to no end.

Im not sure FFA is a good idea just for the fact that the whine meter would go to such high levels before the entitleds quit that im not sure the server wouldnt implode under the sheer weight of the whinyness.

My judgement can be wrong of course, i just dislike this claiming stuff alot.

[Zordana]

i want guild halls and then have the bossmobs choose a guild-target and raid their guild hall <3

[Taxi]

QQ.
I hate to break it to you but the people who put in more effort get more stuff. This is 100% as it was in live. The good news for you is that once Kunark is released the classic content will open up more than it is today and there will be much more new stuff to camp.

So in live you had GMs regulating who had a rightful claim to a camp and who didnt? It was so not like that on Rallos Zek and im highly doubtful that GMs had such a heavy-handed approach to camps back on live blue servers.

Can anyone confirm this?

[Taxi]

Again, this is not a bitch on devs here when i say heavy-handed approach. I understand the dynamic here is different than on live and solutions are WIP.

[nilbog]

So in live you had GMs regulating who had a rightful claim to a camp and who didnt? It was so not like that on Rallos Zek and im highly doubtful that GMs had such a heavy-handed approach to camps back on live blue servers.

I have personally had camps "resolved" by guides/GMs on Erollisi Marr circa 1999-2004ish.

I have :

a: been told to leave, as it was someone else's.

b: gotten a camp, as it was fully popped and someone came back petitioning i stole it

c: been told that they would not assist in a camp dispute

d: had an fbss taken from another player and given to a group member of mine, as our "camp" was KSed

So yeah, I'd say there were various rules used all over the place.

[Taxi]

To restate how much i appreciate you guys work, i think the MMO emu scene is where the gaming mod scene was 10 years ago. When map making was busting out on unreal T, Quake mods, natural selection for half-life etc...

The MMO games are getting run into the ground by greedy game companies who are gonna nickle and dime people for xp potions and shit like that. You guys are where its at right now.

Thats why it pains me to see all the bullshit here, people are like ITEMS!! I WANT!! I WANT!! and dont take a breather to try to see long term whats good for the server in general.

<3

[Reiker]

To restate how much i appreciate you guys work, i think the MMO emu scene is where the gaming mod scene was 10 years ago.

Fairly true. DAOC and EQ emu are hitting 800+ populations which is unheard of for emus. There's even an Aion emu out already.

[Starklen]

FFA Would mean 2-3 guilds literally sitting on the spawn of a mob.

Then what? The mob spawns, probably aggroes someone automatically right away, and then all 3 guilds go into a kill steal fest for the win? And if/when we do get logs of who actually was on aggro first, we take away the loot, suspend the kill stealing guild, and give it to the guild that was lucky to get first aggro?

How does that make any sense.

I think you are discounting the fact that even groups of people that dislike each other are able to function in some sort of 'free' system when facing the right set of incentives and disincentives. I've already observed small amounts of reciprocity under the current regime of rules. For example, I've witnessed both DA and IB zoning out for one another during Vox engagements to try and reduce zone lag for the opposing raid. While your perception of how much people dislike each other around here is probably true, I don't feel like it is the likely case that an FFA system necessarily leads to the anarchy or set of problems you suggest. Even enemies will try to agree to or respect some minimum standard of conduct if nothing more than to maximize their own utilities. You see examples of this out in the world all the time.

[Taxi]

While your perception of how much people dislike each other around here is probably true, I don't feel like it is the likely case that an FFA system necessarily leads to the anarchy or set of problems you suggest. Even enemies will try to agree to or respect some minimum standard of conduct if nothing more than to maximize their own utilities. You see examples of this out in the world all the time.

Thats a good point, you still get a reputation with a FFA system. If some people are known to KS all the time etc... say some guild starts out and names itself <WeKSuLOL>. Well that guild would probably need to be stricly self-reliant because they wouldnt get buffed in EC, wouldnt get ports, unless they stay anonymous. If its anything like on live, people have a little shitlist they keep close to themselves when they are playing. FFA would be self-regulating in that way.

[Beldhar Stormstalker]

I used to play on the now-extinct Zebuxoruk server, until around the end of 2004 I think, when I quit (shortly after Gates of Discord came out).

It seems that on different servers, there were different "rules" as for camping and raiding... as far as I can remember, there was no calendar nor anything of the sort on Zeb. And the only true-FFA mob that I knew of was the (in)famous Lodizal. The rest usually were respected by camping rules - whoever was at the spot killing stuff had the rights to the named, which in theory is similar to what we have here right now.

On raid targets though, things were very different than what P99 seems to have. The contested raid mobs were not FFA, but there were "races" between guilds to see who could mobilize faster, buff up and engage. This was true to most of the open-area mobs, like the Kunark dragons, and some "dungeon/city" areas, like Vindi/Statue in Kael, and KT. The first guild to engage the mob had the claim, and should they fail, the other guild standing around had a shot. It was quite amusing to beat your "arch-nemesis" guild on certain things, like Doomshade and Rumblecrush in Luclin. I had some fun back in those days.

Some other mobs were a bit more complicated. For example, Chardok Royals and the Coldain King. The guild that started clearing the way to the nameds had the initial claim. Another guild could follow behind, without interfering on anything, in case the initial guild wiped, but that usually was not the case. If someone was clearing down to Royals, other folks usually let them be and moved on.

And in the case of the then-available planes, if there was a weaker guild farming trash in Hate, or Growth, for armor drops, and suddenly Inno/Tunare popped, it was frequent that stronger guilds would show up to attempt the named, but they'd leave the small guys alone and either assist them with clearing (if necessary) and handing over loot, but only after talking to that guild's leadership, and not leapfrogging/training the shiznit out of them.

It wasn't perfect back then, but it seemed to work... obviously, there was "cockblocking" of higher end mobs, with the top guild on the server having certain targets locked down (Emperor Ssra, for instance, was only killed by a second guild after Planes of Power came out), but the whole cockblocking/drama seems to be part of the EverQuest experience. Heh.

[Rogean]

You guys can't compare rallos zek to this server, because simply there was no play nice policy on rallos zek. It was quite simple, resolve your disputes via PVP. That is not an option here (and no, it never will be).

[Taxi]

You guys can't compare rallos zek to this server, because simply there was no play nice policy on rallos zek. It was quite simple, resolve your disputes via PVP. That is not an option here (and no, it never will be).

I just did a little jog outside, and thats what came to my mind. If some guy came and took the mob i was camping on Rallos well, i marked his name down and would try to get back to him at some later time or on the spot if he was around the same lvl as me. Obviously thats not going to happen here.

Theres a mild form of repercussion similar to this in the form of being sort of an outcast if you keep doing that. Meaning no buffs, no sow, no ports, not getting groups. But im not sure its enough of a deterrent to stop people from being major annoyances. I view training and KSing as part of the game because of where I "grew up" so im trying to adjust myself to a blue server.

FFA seems more appealing because then the problem of perma-camping is solved. Theres other headaches that will come from FFA, like people whining that its THEIR mobs! but looking at the recent threads, no change amirite? You will still have people zerging for mobs, but with not 100% chances of getting the kill, how easy will it be to make 50 players sit for hours and days?

I think it gives a more challenging and uncharted and unforeseeable flavor to the encounters if done through FFA. Again just thinking aloud, if someone can point out the major flaws in FFA that are crippling im all ears and my opinion isnt set in stone.

[mr.miketastic]

IMO, anything would be better than the status quo, but until that changes we have what we have...wysiwyg

[BeepBeep]

life is not fair.

[pickled_heretic]

life is not fair.

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing.

[Taxi]

life is not fair.

The thread with multiple people advocating guilds getting rewards proportional to the efforts that are put in is that way ^^^^

[redghosthunter]

Rogean, "No matter what system is in place there is always complaints about it."
/nod. but then it makes for suck funny reading

The solution will come when there is more of a world. Once Kunark hits camps will open up.

[Stepy]

If there was a zone timer that would auto kick out players after a certain length of time or a 2 per guild rule for non raid zones it could help quite a bit ???
At least the run back after getting kicked would allow others the opportunity to take the camp before players (boxer) could get back. two per guild might help push guilds to cooperate more once the solo'er and duels were forced out or got bored and moved on. I know this sounds crazy but nothing else seems to be working, i'm siting out as well and waiting for Kunark maybe by then things will change and it would be worthwhile to play again.

[BeepBeep]

I'd like to start off by saying I have not, nor ever intend to farm any camp on this server.

The way it is now is fair. If you are at a camp and able to maintain it, you deserve to be able to stay there as long as you please. Yes there are people who abuse this rule, and it sucks. But honestly that's life and you can put them on your shit-list if you want.

You guys are right, it's not fair the way it is right now, but it's lesser of two evils if you ask me. It also allows for proper distribution of the items as well because those who are willing to wait the longest for it, or pay the most will get it.

Once they fix corpse timers it will also help since multiple corpses with an item will decay after 24 hours if they are online. This will push farmers to go and sell slightly faster than they are now.


The one thing I think we do need to debate about is:

Being able to pass off a camp to a guild member or friend if someone else has been sitting nearby waiting for the camp. The reason is because this creates a camp lock-down and is detrimental to the community imo. This happens all the time on camps like Frenzy with the FBSS and we all know its going to happen with the Fungi camp when Kunark comes out unless we fix this.

Hope some of this made sense. Back to work.

[BeepBeep]

Also, an example, my Necro friend has camped Frenzy for his alt for 14+ hours over the past week and hasn't had one frenzy spawn, let alone an FBSS. He has horrible luck.

There are always two sides to a story. I like to tell him to go camp seafuries for 14+ hours and just use that money to buy a damn FBSS.

P.S. This is R&F, this whole thread will probably be disregarded anyways.

[pickled_heretic]

The way it is now is fair.
You guys are right, it's not fair the way it is right now
Hope some of this made sense. Back to work.
Nope.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

FFA Would mean 2-3 guilds literally sitting on the spawn of a mob.

Then what? The mob spawns, probably aggroes someone automatically right away, and then all 3 guilds go into a kill steal fest for the win? And if/when we do get logs of who actually was on aggro first, we take away the loot, suspend the kill stealing guild, and give it to the guild that was lucky to get first aggro?

How does that make any sense.

Because if the suspensions were for a long enough period of time, the KSing would stop. If players knew they were going to get banned for a month, they would be damn careful not to KS a raid mob. The players who were not careful would only bother you at most once every 31 days... barring a potential "3 strikes and you're perma-banned" rule. Surely that is better than the frequency with which you get petitioned to raids these days?

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Also, thanks to the OP for being concerned about shitting up my discussion thread. I appreciate you starting yours here.

[azeth]

My first thought was, part of the reason (maybe most of) is that we're playing Classic EQ void of expansions with individuals who've been with the server long enough to be geared/well organized enough to camp these spawns heavily. That being said, and I apologize to the dev team if I'm way off base here, but once Kunark for instance opens up do you not agree that Frenzied in Lguk is going to be as heavily contested?

That being said I'm aware that when Kunark opens for example the gear prior to the expansion will not be as heavily contested as it's value will diminish with the addition of newer/better expansion gear. But in reality, you cannot rightfully punish a guild/group for commitment to a spawn and really being organized/conscious enough to hold it down for "2 months" as someone earlier in the thread exaggeratedly (not a real word :P) put it.

[azeth]

So apparently edits are not allowed, and so im just correcting my wording on "but once Kunark for instance opens up do you not agree that Frenzied in Lguk is going to be as heavily contested?"

I meant, once Kunark premiers, contested camps like Frenzied *wont be as heavily contested.

[Taxi]

P.S. This is R&F, this whole thread will probably be disregarded anyways.

And yet both Nilbog and Rogean posted in it. It doesnt mean that they will take anything from it, but i dont see why they would differentiate from R&F or server chat if theres something good that comes out of it. Theres irony in that i took refuge in R&F from the drama upstairs to have a thread where people can flame back and forth and dont pollute the constructive threads and we end up having a nice quiet discussion about the problem without name calling and the flaming is up there.

The way it is now is fair. If you are at a camp and able to maintain it, you deserve to be able to stay there as long as you please. Yes there are people who abuse this rule, and it sucks. But honestly that's life and you can put them on your shit-list if you want.

You throw words around like "fair" and "deserve" and youre the one saying that life isnt fair, deal with it? That its fair and they deserve is not an argument in itself. Why is it fair, why do they deserve to camp a mob for 14 hours? Why is it fair that if i log on and only have 2 hours to play some guy afk camping hadden has rights to the mob when hadden is up and not me? Because in theory he isnt supposed to afk camp hadden. In practice, nobody is going to stay alert for hours making sure you pop him the moment he spawns, so its afk camping. In practice, thats how players assume it goes. Thats part of whats wrong with this picture. There should be a rule like if the mob has been up for 30 seconds, you dont even have to ask the afk guy if hes camping a mob. You can just take it.


The one thing I think we do need to debate about is:

Being able to pass off a camp to a guild member or friend if someone else has been sitting nearby waiting for the camp. The reason is because this creates a camp lock-down and is detrimental to the community imo. This happens all the time on camps like Frenzy with the FBSS and we all know its going to happen with the Fungi camp when Kunark comes out unless we fix this.

Hope some of this made sense. Back to work.

Thats part of why i think the camping rules dont work, because by allowing people to perma-camp camps, they can say whatever they want about whos next in line even if it isnt true making it a headache for GMs who then have to babysit it all.

[Schultes]

The way things are, you can just sit at a mob, like the best Lguk mobs, and kill till you get tired of it. Then you pass the torch to someone in your guild.

So basically, in theory, once a guild has got a lockdown on the best mobs in the game, if they dont fuck-up, they can camp it for months, and if you try to stop them from doing that, youll get banned.

Just the fact that people are suggesting calendars for raid mobs is making me chuckle in my head to no end.


Hey guys i am brand spanking new i use to play on The Rathe back in the day. Anyways i was thinking why not limit the amount a camp can be passed off by players? Lets say 3 characters that can be recycled, basically a group of people working shifts instead of a endless line of players? Maybe even 5? Depending on the difficulty of the camp.

I couldn't even tell you what to do for Raids since i just made my guy on here, but why not the same principle but with 3 groups(or whatever the original amount of players that showed up) where you cant keep bringing in new guildies after so many hours camping then it would work kinda like a last man standing mode.

I don't know just wanted to throw it out there


a: been told to leave, as it was someone else's.

b: gotten a camp, as it was fully popped and someone came back petitioning i stole it

c: been told that they would not assist in a camp dispute

d: had an fbss taken from another player and given to a group member of mine, as our "camp" was KSed



I had the exact same things said to me on The Rathe! That is pretty damn funny, everyone except letter D. I was even told to leave a zone i was camping for 4 hours!!!! because someone else was camping it!

[MeatShield]

let people KS soon they will give up on the camps then bam it wont be so over crowded

[azeth]

on Rodcet Nife anytime there was a camp dispute whether raid or not the GM's would hear both sides. if it was abundantly clear a group attempting whatever camp/boss/mob was overwhelmed by zerg/ks group they'd clearly ask the aggressor to take off. However if there was no backbone to either argument it just came down to a /random

[Dantes]

They should just replace drops with random cursed items that change the wielder into a female ogre. Problem solved.

[oldtimer]

The one thing I think we do need to debate about is:

Being able to pass off a camp to a guild member or friend if someone else has been sitting nearby waiting for the camp. The reason is because this creates a camp lock-down and is detrimental to the community imo. This happens all the time on camps like Frenzy with the FBSS and we all know its going to happen with the Fungi camp when Kunark comes out unless we fix this.

Hope some of this made sense. Back to work.

This is an important point. At least one modification to the existing rules might come out of this discussion:

Being physically present at the spawn point waiting for camp to free up should trump all.

If a player is determined and willing to put in the time and sit at the spawn point waiting for the current campholder to finish, that player should absolutely be next in line for the camp. The existing rules leave it to the discretion of the campholder, and that should probably stay the same EXCEPT if there is someone actually present at the camp waiting for it. To say that a camp can be passed to the next one on a "list" or a friend or guildmate who shows up 5 minutes prior to the changeover as opposed to someone who has been physically present at the spawn point waiting patiently, makes no sense imho.

That seems to me the easiest "improvement" to make to existing rules. It does not address the entire problem, and sure you can still get your guildmate/friend to sit there with you afk, but at least its a start.

[Goobles]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/QQ.jpg

[Alawen Everywhere]

I just realized that I've begun to understand Penoy and Goobles.

I think I'm going to try the Even Online trial.

[Taxi]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/QQ.jpg

lol at least one guy trolled...

[Auvdar]

derail but

on Rodcet Nife anytime there was a camp dispute whether raid or not the GM's would hear both sides. if it was abundantly clear a group attempting whatever camp/boss/mob was overwhelmed by zerg/ks group they'd clearly ask the aggressor to take off. However if there was no backbone to either argument it just came down to a /random

Who were you on Rodcet Nife? I'm from that server too.

[Volga]

You guys can't compare rallos zek to this server, because simply there was no play nice policy on rallos zek. It was quite simple, resolve your disputes via PVP. That is not an option here (and no, it never will be).

2 men enta ! one man leaves !

[Cyrano]

I still think the big problem is too much GM involvement, no offense to you guys. If raid guilds are training or ks'ing one another why do the GMs get involved 100% of the time? Like whoever said above reputations will be formed based on actions and not what people say or how they act on the forums.

A huge difference between live and P99 is the accessibility of GMs/Devs 24/7. On Morell Thule our GM was named Linor who was involved with major issues and very fair. Linor spent more of his time dealing with bugged characters/mobs than babysitting people who cry wolf anytime a raid mob pops. Thing is, I could never imagine seeing Linor hanging out in a chat program with a guild. The few servers who had GMs that were also playing on their server caused server specific GMs to get nuked, they were too close to the people and situations at hand. Bias was able to be formed and in some forms straight up corruption.

Why don't you guys just take a step back from the whole scene for awhile and let us police ourselves? Then you can focus on development instead of Angry_Raider_00702 bitching up a storm.

[Stepy]

"Why don't you guys just take a step back from the whole scene for awhile and let us police ourselves? Then you can focus on development instead of Angry_Raider_00702 bitching up a storm. "

If you want to step back and stay out of the fray that is great... for you, maybe others are looking for a better solution. Its clear that policing ourselves isn't working or there wouldn't be so many complaints. The purpose of this game is to have fun and you do this by doing quest and better your character by equiping it with better armor and weapons.
This is where it gets frustrating once you reach a certain level, lets say 50 then either you have to have a huge pile of plat. or be able to conquer named mobs. Once your at this point you start looking for the hot spot for that super piece of armor or weapon and you see it's taken and you come back later and you realize your not going to find it open. Not everyone has a character that can solo and hold these spot and you have to find a group but once you get a group going you see there is nothing open to camp so the group disbands and your all alone again, and waiting. I suppose you can get lucky and join a raiding guild and wait your turn for raid drops but unless things change a few will control all the best spots and all you can do is sit and get frustrated.
There s no simple solution, some people are jerks and there not a whole lot you can do about it without breaking the rules.
I suppose some can just start a different character or just ride it out till Kunark is live and those people will move on to bigger game.

[Cyrano]

"Why don't you guys just take a step back from the whole scene for awhile and let us police ourselves? Then you can focus on development instead of Angry_Raider_00702 bitching up a storm. "

If you want to step back and stay out of the fray that is great... for you, maybe others are looking for a better solution. Its clear that policing ourselves isn't working or there wouldn't be so many complaints. The purpose of this game is to have fun and you do this by doing quest and better your character by equiping it with better armor and weapons.
This is where it gets frustrating once you reach a certain level, lets say 50 then either you have to have a huge pile of plat. or be able to conquer named mobs. Once your at this point you start looking for the hot spot for that super piece of armor or weapon and you see it's taken and you come back later and you realize your not going to find it open. Not everyone has a character that can solo and hold these spot and you have to find a group but once you get a group going you see there is nothing open to camp so the group disbands and your all alone again, and waiting. I suppose you can get lucky and join a raiding guild and wait your turn for raid drops but unless things change a few will control all the best spots and all you can do is sit and get frustrated.
There s no simple solution, some people are jerks and there not a whole lot you can do about it without breaking the rules.
I suppose some can just start a different character or just ride it out till Kunark is live and those people will move on to bigger game.

I play a rogue, I can't solo anything. Different people play this game for different reasons. I think it's shitty that people pass camps off to guildees for days on end instead of giving it to the next person sitting there. I think it's shitty that going AFK at a camp for any amount of time allows people who want to cite the rules 24/7 can make a valid argument about taking a spawn. I think it's shitty that if you go to the bathroom and someone comes in and takes your camp, you can't retaliate and fight them for it.

I'm gonna requote something there.

some people are jerks and there not a whole lot you can do about it without breaking the rules.

Therein lies the problem. The rules can be gamed. On live if someone was a dick and stole a camp from you, you absolutely should train them. Then you should go to the forums and brag about it so people know that that guy thought he could roll you simply because he's a stronger class or has better gear. That's what I mean by policing ourselves. The reputations of assholes will grow and people will get black balled, that's how classic EQ was.

The current set of rules and how many there are ensure that GMs are present 24/7, even if not physically. Show me a server set of rules creating by GMs on live that was adhered to serverwide. It doesn't exist.

[AWOL]

I still think the big problem is too much GM involvement, no offense to you guys. If raid guilds are training or ks'ing one another why do the GMs get involved 100% of the time? Like whoever said above reputations will be formed based on actions and not what people say or how they act on the forums.

A huge difference between live and P99 is the accessibility of GMs/Devs 24/7. On Morell Thule our GM was named Linor who was involved with major issues and very fair. Linor spent more of his time dealing with bugged characters/mobs than babysitting people who cry wolf anytime a raid mob pops. Thing is, I could never imagine seeing Linor hanging out in a chat program with a guild. The few servers who had GMs that were also playing on their server caused server specific GMs to get nuked, they were too close to the people and situations at hand. Bias was able to be formed and in some forms straight up corruption.

Why don't you guys just take a step back from the whole scene for awhile and let us police ourselves? Then you can focus on development instead of Angry_Raider_00702 bitching up a storm.

I couldn't agree more. I played on live on a PVE server that was 100% FFA. The only rule enforced was no KS and no trains but the burden of proof was on the accusing party. By the time a GM would show up the faster and/or stronger guild had already killed the target and moved on and the GMs would always say they would not get involved in raid target disputes, unless people could prove it was a train or KS.

I think the only solution is make it 100% FFA, the first to engage wins. If a guild already have their entire force in zone lets say 30+ players ready to take down a boss, guild B who was late in assembling their raid most likely won't reach the target in time to engage that will help avoid conflicts. Keep the golems rule for CT but as FFA first to kill 2 golems win CT. If we take away the 15 man rule camping goes out the window because a guild can just rush a target as it spawns regardless of the number of afk people in zone.

[Kinamur1999]

some people are jerks and there not a whole lot you can do about it without breaking the rules.

My terms, There's a whole lot of people being jerks and nothing you can do about it.

Going afk to go to the bathroom and having your camp stolen sucks, going afk for 6 hours to go to work and having your camp stolen is not having your camp stole its giving up your camp to go to work.

I'm really not sure how important rep is to many of the people playing on this emu, and im sure its not important to the top guilds considering the constant shit thrown their way.

Saying its not an issue/misunderstanding does not make it a moot point.

Rep is meaningless, wins is what counts.

[Cyrano]

I'm definitely with you on CT. This is one instance where we could have true racing competition. Instead of having to watch the guild with 15 first in zone kill the two golems, make that part FFA.

Doesn't matter how far in they are, a second comes in and beats them to the two golems they get a shot at CT.

[Stepy]

I'm sure alot of us are unhappy to say the least when some jerk does something to use to make our game time not enjoyable. The fact is we usually grumble about it, go to the boards and post what happens or just rant in shouts about the scoundrel that did us wrong. Many of use aren't vigilantes we can't just go off and administer some sort of justice on someone else even if they are jerks, all it causes is more retaliation from him/her and their friends and guild mates. You sure don't want some ticked off jerk following you around trying to make your in-game life miserable.

[Cyrano]

Rep pushed Abacab to nuke his character and account, trust me if you log in and people flame you in tells and refuse to group with you it will affect anyone's desire to play here.

I also don't get the afk for 6 hours rule? I think whoever posted the hadden situation had it perfectly. If you roll up to Hadden and he's spawned but some guy is AFK, why should he get first shot? Go kill Hadden and if the guy comes back from AFK 2 seconds later and is cool about it, be a stand up person and give him the earring. However if you're waiting there next to him and his guild keeps passing off the camp and being afk when Hadden spawns, fuck them.

The rules are too easily manipulated by dickheads, and I'm not even talking about the raid situation.

Again, there should be a few universal rules and that's it. Don't purposely train people, it becomes apparent via reputation and repetition who does this on a regular basis. Don't steal camps, however if someone is being ridiculous (ie going to work and feeling like they should still hold the Ishva camp) by all means take it away. Use judgement here, come complain on the forums to the public instead of summoning a GM at every turn.

And when it comes to raiding, many of you people claim to hate IB and DA anyways. Why not let us fight it out amongst ourselves instead of imposing overbearing rules?

The camping rule is a microcosm of the primary issues on this server in terms of right to content. Those who disagree only need look at Oasis. This is a lower level exp zone with a few named spawns. Those who can kill LJ will fight for it while those who can't will fight for lesser mobs. If you pull near a group they will often try to steal your pull, do you go bitch to a GM or do you man up and beat them? I'm the latter... what are you?

[Cyrano]

I'm sure alot of us are unhappy to say the least when some jerk does something to use to make our game time not enjoyable. The fact is we usually grumble about it, go to the boards and post what happens or just rant in shouts about the scoundrel that did us wrong. Many of use aren't vigilantes we can't just go off and administer some sort of justice on someone else even if they are jerks, all it causes is more retaliation from him/her and their friends and guild mates. You sure don't want some ticked off jerk following you around trying to make your in-game life miserable.

That's the perfect example of someone who will be banned though. Some guy comes in and trains your group because he wants a camp on his 50 necro. Then he's a smug dick about it, go post on the forums and see if other people have similar sentiments. If this is his norm, train the MFer and if he starts to follow you around griefing you, let me know. If the GMs say "it's ffa, do what you will" I would start a guild named "Vigilantes" compromised of 50 monks who make it our sole purpose to train the living fuck out of assholes who grief casual players like you just mentioned. This seems like a much better use of my time than camping a raid mob for 48 hours simply because the current rule system calls for it.

Again, open up the rules and let us play. In fact that's my campaign slogan.

Cyrano for Server President: "If you vote for me I'll train the jerks of the server!"

[nicemace]

i dunno about you guys. but last night i just rolled into guk, lord was open, lord was up (no yak), killed him, cleared room, cleared hall, PH spawned, killed him, cleared hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, clear room, clear hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, leave guk.

didnt even need to talk to anyone, i just went along, got my 2 yaks then left.

but im bound outside, and i check on all the premium camps every now and then.

magi was also open when i went along.

all this bitching and moaning about guilds locking them out is crap, ive gone along grabbed frenzy like 3 times in the last week, same with magi and lord and king.

and for raid mobs: FFA is bad idea. simple.

[eqdruid76]

[QUOTE=Cyrano;80749] I think it's shitty that going AFK at a camp for any amount of time allows people who want to cite the rules 24/7 can make a valid argument about taking a spawn. QUOTE]

Now you understand the importance of maintaining a poop sock.

[Stepy]

"i dunno about you guys. but last night i just rolled into guk, lord was open, lord was up (no yak), killed him, cleared room, cleared hall, PH spawned, killed him, cleared hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, clear room, clear hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, leave guk."

You were a very lucky soul then i guess, not to doubt you but who is your toon, anyone can come on here and post a zone is not perma-camped story.

[Cyrano]

all this bitching and moaning about guilds locking them out is crap, ive gone along grabbed frenzy like 3 times in the last week, same with magi and lord and king.

and for raid mobs: FFA is bad idea. simple.

Why?

[wangerinlee]

There should be absoulty no GM involvment in raid bosses. Now that people know a GM will be inviolved it only fuels the whinners and crybabies. Simple Fix: GM's never respond to raid mob disputes unless its a bug. Any person that petitions another guild over a raid boss gets a nice lil suspension. If you want people to stop bitching stop giving them reason to and dont allow it.

[Cyrano]

There should be absoulty no GM involvment in raid bosses. Now that people know a GM will be inviolved it only fuels the whinners and crybabies. Simple Fix: GM's never respond to raid mob disputes unless its a bug. Any person that petitions another guild over a raid boss gets a nice lil suspension. If you want people to stop bitching stop giving them reason to and dont allow it.

My name is Cyrano Danger, I'm running for Server President and I support this message!

[eldub]

Zebuxoruk server,

...there was no calendar nor anything of the sort on Zeb. And the only true-FFA mob that I knew of was the (in)famous Lodizal. The rest usually were respected by camping rules - whoever was at the spot killing stuff had the rights to the named, which in theory is similar to what we have here right now.

The contested raid mobs were not FFA, they were "races" between guilds to see who could mobilize faster, buff up and engage. This was true for most of the open-area mobs, like the Kunark dragons, and some "dungeon/city" areas, like Vindi/Statue in Kael, and KT. The first guild to engage the mob had the claim, and should they fail, the other guild standing around had a shot.

Some other mobs were a bit more complicated. For example, Chardok Royals and the Coldain King. The guild that started clearing the way to the Named had the initial claim. Another guild could follow behind, without interfering on anything, in case the initial guild wiped, but that usually was not the case. If someone was clearing down to Royals, other folks usually let them be and moved on.

And in the case of the then-available planes, if there was a weaker guild farming trash in Hate, or Growth, for armor drops, and suddenly Inno/Tunare popped, it was frequent that stronger guilds would show up to attempt the named, but they'd leave the small guys alone and either assist them with clearing (if necessary) and handing over loot, but only after talking to that guild's leadership, and not leapfrogging/training the shiznit out of them. Whoever can engage first, gets the first shot.

It wasn't perfect back then, but it seemed to work... obviously, there was "cockblocking" of higher end mobs, with the top guild on the server having certain targets locked down (Emperor Ssra, for instance, was only killed by a second guild after Planes of Power came out), but the whole cockblocking/drama seems to be part of the EverQuest experience.

[Wrei]

I think you are discounting the fact that even groups of people that dislike each other are able to function in some sort of 'free' system when facing the right set of incentives and disincentives. I've already observed small amounts of reciprocity under the current regime of rules. For example, I've witnessed both DA and IB zoning out for one another during Vox engagements to try and reduce zone lag for the opposing raid. While your perception of how much people dislike each other around here is probably true, I don't feel like it is the likely case that an FFA system necessarily leads to the anarchy or set of problems you suggest. Even enemies will try to agree to or respect some minimum standard of conduct if nothing more than to maximize their own utilities. You see examples of this out in the world all the time.

This....

For all the people that feels entitled to everything on the server: People who clock more mileage gets more stuff just like in RL. You may feel entitled to get a million bucks in RL but your not gonna get it unless you do something about it. It's really not that hard to understand.

To the GM/Dev Team: I still feel extremely grateful this project was started up despite all the drama happening at the moment. That said however, what are you guys really afraid of if you let the server run as a free market? Trains? KS? Sure there will be a shit ton of whine about it for the parties involved but at the end of the day server will go on. A balance will finally be achieved one way or another WITHOUT your guiding hand on the matter.

The raiding game only affects a small part of the community (just like it was on live). I dare say that average joe leveling up in oasis will not get affected by the shitstorm happening in vox's lair with 3 guilds trying to outdps each other. We don't know how a free market system will be without even trying it.

You keep telling us to grow up and fix our problems, that your too busy to deal with this kind of childish issues. Yet you guys were the ones that decided that you will take an active hand on these issues when you enforced the first rotation between IB and Trans. Look at what's happened since then.

IB beats Trans consistently on boss. Trans petitions that this sucks and we want stuff too. Gm LISTENS (key part) sets PRECEDENT (another key part) to do something about it. Right then and there you could have easily said : "Is this a bug? Did the server crash? Sorry not my problem.. we're busy with game coding stuff not what you can raid."

From that point on, everyone knew that if you send enough petitions/mail to the GM staff that something WILL happen to the issue.

1. Trans losing = rotation

2. 3rd guild wanting to get in on rotation + IB whining about more guilds on rotation = Time variance

3. Inny ganked by X guild = petition by other guild to get something done on the matter.

4. Have a problem? Petition....

5. Camping sucks? Petition....

Seriously, we're not all savages. Sure there's always going to be genuine little dipshits (just like in RL), but for the most part I don't think the p99 world will end in a pile of shit (in a free system). Compromises are born out of respect, right now there is none between the guilds that are feuding over this matter. Let it go free for a month or two and see how bad things will get. You may be surprised at the result.

[Supreme]

This....

For all the people that feels entitled to everything on the server: People who clock more mileage gets more stuff just like in RL. You may feel entitled to get a million bucks in RL but your not gonna get it unless you do something about it. It's really not that hard to understand.

Not true. There are some people that "clock more mileage" and see nothing in return for their efforts. That is the REAL WORLD...this IS A FUCKING GAME. You are forced to deal with RL, people play Everquest for ENJOYMENT. That is possibly why you fail to grasp the reality of the problem.

To the GM/Dev Team: I still feel extremely grateful this project was started up despite all the drama happening at the moment. That said however, what are you guys really afraid of if you let the server run as a free market? Trains? KS? Sure there will be a shit ton of whine about it for the parties involved but at the end of the day server will go on. A balance will finally be achieved one way or another WITHOUT your guiding hand on the matter.

Right on man..because Anarchy without any final authority seems to have worked well in the past. You are either to young or too stupid to understand the amount of drama/problems that would infect P1999.

The raiding game only affects a small part of the community (just like it was on live). I dare say that average joe leveling up in oasis will not get affected by the shitstorm happening in vox's lair with 3 guilds trying to outdps each other. We don't know how a free market system will be without even trying it.

Are you half-asleep? EVERYONE makes it to 50 at some point. After that the only thing left is to RAID! People are not leveling up just to stand back and spectate the end-game content. They want to participate and be involved. Thus why you have guilds and social networks of players.

You keep telling us to grow up and fix our problems, that your too busy to deal with this kind of childish issues. Yet you guys were the ones that decided that you will take an active hand on these issues when you enforced the first rotation between IB and Trans. Look at what's happened since then.


Seems to me that when the rotation was in place the only ones complaining was IB. Due to their GREED. The server was quite restive and having other guilds added to that rotation was sure to bring stability for a long time. While i did not agree with the execute of the rotation i felt that it offered stability. Something we do not have now.

IB beats Trans consistently on boss. Trans petitions that this sucks and we want stuff too. Gm LISTENS (key part) sets PRECEDENT (another key part) to do something about it. Right then and there you could have easily said : "Is this a bug? Did the server crash? Sorry not my problem.. we're busy with game coding stuff not what you can raid."


Lets rephrase...IB wants to dominate the server and take everything for themselves. Trans does not want to spend all their time trying to dominate 10 year old content they want to just play the game and get along.

You forget the fundamental reasons why p1999 was even created to start with. It was not created for IB it was created to relive the classic Everquest experience.

From that point on, everyone knew that if you send enough petitions/mail to the GM staff that something WILL happen to the issue.

1. Trans losing = rotation

2. 3rd guild wanting to get in on rotation + IB whining about more guilds on rotation = Time variance

3. Inny ganked by X guild = petition by other guild to get something done on the matter.

4. Have a problem? Petition....

5. Camping sucks? Petition....

Seriously, we're not all savages. Sure there's always going to be genuine little dipshits (just like in RL), but for the most part I don't think the p99 world will end in a pile of shit (in a free system). Compromises are born out of respect, right now there is none between the guilds that are feuding over this matter. Let it go free for a month or two and see how bad things will get. You may be surprised at the result.


You got this huge chip on your shoulder. That somehow Trans or the server is out to get you. The server population wants IB to see that a place that you work with one another is better served than by leaving up someone FD in PoH/PoF/Naggy Lair/Vox with MQ2 running to send out text notification when a boss spawns.

Just keep going with what your doing. I have seen the DA roster it is full of old Trans people. People that decided they wanted to fight it out instead of "going casual". I applaud it and i wish i had more time to help but i dont.

Until you change your attitude it will continue.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Hi. I'm one of the IB trackers. I'm a druid. I've been bound in Plane of Fear since January 29, the day I joined IB. I also track SolB (I like upper bats) and Vox (I hide by scryer since the trains started). MQ2 would be kind of pointless, don't you think?

Good job looking like an asshole for accusing players who play druids of using hack software to... track. Could you go back to trolling VZ/TZ instead? I'm sure they'd like to read you say "10 year old content" over and over in every post.

[astarothel]

Not true. There are some people that "clock more mileage" and see nothing in return for their efforts.

It happens. Not everything is, nor deserves to be fair. Effort is relative.
Next you'll cite this:

That is the REAL WORLD...this IS A FUCKING GAME.

Just because it is over pixels does not render the previous argument of effort invalid.

You are forced to deal with RL, people play Everquest for ENJOYMENT.

You are forced to 'deal' with any hobby you choose to partake of.
If you are not enjoying yourself in your hobby, perhaps you should re-evaluate your continued participation within said hobby. Just because you are not receiving as much ENJOYMENT as you would desire from it does not necessarily mean others are experiencing an identical deprivation of ENJOYMENT. If this were the case then we would all live happily ever after on Project1999 like furry fucking carebears. We would also cease to partake in the human condition.

You knew how competitive EverQuest was on live, and what it entailed and meant to raid. Project1999 is a community of people formed from those who enjoyed classic EverQuest. It is ludicrous to assume that competition would be any -less- here simply because "OMG it is an emulated server of an eleven year old game". The higher concentration of raiders Project1999 has is a reflection of that more than anything -- people want to experience that content again including any associated competition. Sorry if you didn't see it coming, but many of us that started playing here did, and many even relish the thought of doing it all again.

Maybe it's because we all played on different servers. To claim: SONY enforced a rotation! SONY wanted FFA! SONY wanted X! Is bullshit. SONY wanted money. It's what companies do. SONY did whatever the vast majority community agreed and accepted to do on a server by server basis -- JUST LIKE GMS HERE OMFG!

Not everyone wants a rotation.
Not everyone wants FFA.
Compromise instead of repeatedly saying "A CALENDAR WITH A ROTATION IS THE ONLY SOLUTION"
That is possibly why you fail to grasp the reality of the problem.

[Wrei]

Not true. There are some people that "clock more mileage" and see nothing in return for their efforts. That is the REAL WORLD...this IS A FUCKING GAME. You are forced to deal with RL, people play Everquest for ENJOYMENT. That is possibly why you fail to grasp the reality of the problem.

Right so, why not just have a button that pumps out every loot in the game? I mean seriously, everyone is ENTITLED to get their ENJOYMENT. Why do we even bother raiding? Seriously we should just get whatever we want, when we want no?


Right on man..because Anarchy without any final authority seems to have worked well in the past. You are either to young or too stupid to understand the amount of drama/problems that would infect P1999.

I realize everyone's Live experience has been different on various server. I assure you however that there has been servers that managed just fine WITHOUT GM interference... You are either too stubborn or ignorant to base an opinion on something that hasn't even been tried yet on this community.


Are you half-asleep? EVERYONE makes it to 50 at some point. After that the only thing left is to RAID! People are not leveling up just to stand back and spectate the end-game content. They want to participate and be involved. Thus why you have guilds and social networks of players.

Right, cause on live you had 40 guilds competing for the mobs right? This may be a shock to you but there are people who play the game and still enjoy without raiding. Whether it's trade skilling or accumulating virtual wealth via farming. Not everything is about killing smelly dragons. Do you even realize why EQ died? Because it based its model catering to the smallest player base, the hardcore gamer. It pumped out expansion after expansion and introduce new bosses to kill to satisfy its raiders. When in reality the majority of the gamers (the casuals) only played EQ because it was the only game at the time (for an MMO). WoW came in to cater the casuals and look what happened, over 10million accounts compared to what now? I'll say 250K and be generous. Even if everyone on the server hits 50, you are NOT going to see 50 different raiding guilds. So yeah it will be a lot smaller than what your describing.


Seems to me that when the rotation was in place the only ones complaining was IB. Due to their GREED. The server was quite restive and having other guilds added to that rotation was sure to bring stability for a long time. While i did not agree with the execute of the rotation i felt that it offered stability. Something we do not have now.

Yeah, cause the other guilds wanting their shot at bosses is our greed as well. Fixed rotation (old system) is such a short sighted system it's not even funny. So what you get to kill 1 boss every 2months eventually? What about key mobs? Maybe a guild will get to see VP by the time we're halfway through Velious release then.. If everyone manned up and stopped crying and mobilized instead of this "campfest" there would be stability once again. As EVERY guild would have a shot at any boss.


Lets rephrase...IB wants to dominate the server and take everything for themselves. Trans does not want to spend all their time trying to dominate 10 year old content they want to just play the game and get along.

IB wants to compete and raid against other guilds... not like our MO is different than any other raiding guild here. No offense but that's not what you were saying back then, i find it funny that you keep going back to the 10 year old argument. If your not playing the raiding game then why bother giving your 2 cents?


You forget the fundamental reasons why p1999 was even created to start with. It was not created for IB it was created to relive the classic Everquest experience.

You forgot a fundamental reason as well, EQ Classic experience was about competition in the raiding game. Seriously, we had guilds cockblocking each other on key mobs to insure their dominance within their tier content. Do I think it's fair? Perhaps not but that's what the game was in Classic and that's how it should be here. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if there was more content at hand when guilds can move on to the next stage. Accuse us of greed the day you see IB killing a boss to prevent another guild from getting the boss (when we don't need it). We've moved on from Maestro, we'll move on from more as more stuff pops in.


You got this huge chip on your shoulder. That somehow Trans or the server is out to get you. The server population wants IB to see that a place that you work with one another is better served than by leaving up someone FD in PoH/PoF/Naggy Lair/Vox with MQ2 running to send out text notification when a boss spawns.

Wow seriously...this baseless accusation is just retarded. I couldn't believe the stupid shit Trans was saying about us back then (SEQ,MQ,Hacking,GM favoritism) but once people joined us they realized we're just a raiding guild. If you still have doubts ask your ex trans guildies that joined us at the end. It may be hard to believe but we're not the cheating sketchbags you think we are.

Just keep going with what your doing. I have seen the DA roster it is full of old Trans people. People that decided they wanted to fight it out instead of "going casual". I applaud it and i wish i had more time to help but i dont.

I'm sure you can help out by getting a tag and sitting AFK for days on end. It's not that much of a commitment.

[nicemace]

"i dunno about you guys. but last night i just rolled into guk, lord was open, lord was up (no yak), killed him, cleared room, cleared hall, PH spawned, killed him, cleared hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, clear room, clear hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, leave guk."

You were a very lucky soul then i guess, not to doubt you but who is your toon, anyone can come on here and post a zone is not perma-camped story.

My char is Ustulius, im not trying to be anon or anything, GM's wont let me have my name.

Lucky on the yaks, yeah... lucky on the camps? nah. ive been down there plenty when shit isnt camped.

[Supreme]

Right so, why not just have a button that pumps out every loot in the game? I mean seriously, everyone is ENTITLED to get their ENJOYMENT. Why do we even bother raiding? Seriously we should just get whatever we want, when we want no?



I realize everyone's Live experience has been different on various server. I assure you however that there has been servers that managed just fine WITHOUT GM interference... You are either too stubborn or ignorant to base an opinion on something that hasn't even been tried yet on this community.



Right, cause on live you had 40 guilds competing for the mobs right? This may be a shock to you but there are people who play the game and still enjoy without raiding. Whether it's trade skilling or accumulating virtual wealth via farming. Not everything is about killing smelly dragons. Do you even realize why EQ died? Because it based its model catering to the smallest player base, the hardcore gamer. It pumped out expansion after expansion and introduce new bosses to kill to satisfy its raiders. When in reality the majority of the gamers (the casuals) only played EQ because it was the only game at the time (for an MMO). WoW came in to cater the casuals and look what happened, over 10million accounts compared to what now? I'll say 250K and be generous. Even if everyone on the server hits 50, you are NOT going to see 50 different raiding guilds. So yeah it will be a lot smaller than what your describing.



Yeah, cause the other guilds wanting their shot at bosses is our greed as well. Fixed rotation (old system) is such a short sighted system it's not even funny. So what you get to kill 1 boss every 2months eventually? What about key mobs? Maybe a guild will get to see VP by the time we're halfway through Velious release then.. If everyone manned up and stopped crying and mobilized instead of this "campfest" there would be stability once again. As EVERY guild would have a shot at any boss.



IB wants to compete and raid against other guilds... not like our MO is different than any other raiding guild here. No offense but that's not what you were saying back then, i find it funny that you keep going back to the 10 year old argument. If your not playing the raiding game then why bother giving your 2 cents?



You forgot a fundamental reason as well, EQ Classic experience was about competition in the raiding game. Seriously, we had guilds cockblocking each other on key mobs to insure their dominance within their tier content. Do I think it's fair? Perhaps not but that's what the game was in Classic and that's how it should be here. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if there was more content at hand when guilds can move on to the next stage. Accuse us of greed the day you see IB killing a boss to prevent another guild from getting the boss (when we don't need it). We've moved on from Maestro, we'll move on from more as more stuff pops in.



Wow seriously...this baseless accusation is just retarded. I couldn't believe the stupid shit Trans was saying about us back then (SEQ,MQ,Hacking,GM favoritism) but once people joined us they realized we're just a raiding guild. If you still have doubts ask your ex trans guildies that joined us at the end. It may be hard to believe but we're not the cheating sketchbags you think we are.


I'm sure you can help out by getting a tag and sitting AFK for days on end. It's not that much of a commitment.


Yet if you remember...the rotation while unpopular definitely was LESS drama and bullshit than what it going on right now...

You can try and spin my responses to detract from what you originally stated but the fact remains. The current state of affairs is much worse than a GM enforced rotation. While you think that "entitlement" means first come first serve there is a a lot of people that feel it is just a game that we play for enjoyment and want to have the same chance. By chance you claim "then compete" racing is classic etc etc. We state that we are no longer kids/students that can skip class for a raid content.

Thus is the things that Transcendence is now. Not because you are better or more skilled. But because we have to make a choice. I choose to not play on P1999 because i see that with all the greed and selfishness there will never be a system that is fair to all.

[Omnimorph]

Yet if you remember...the rotation while unpopular definitely was LESS drama and bullshit than what it going on right now...

You can try and spin my responses to detract from what you originally stated but the fact remains. The current state of affairs is much worse than a GM enforced rotation. While you think that "entitlement" means first come first serve there is a a lot of people that feel it is just a game that we play for enjoyment and want to have the same chance. By chance you claim "then compete" racing is classic etc etc. We state that we are no longer kids/students that can skip class for a raid content.

Thus is the things that Transcendence is now. Not because you are better or more skilled. But because we have to make a choice. I choose to not play on P1999 because i see that with all the greed and selfishness there will never be a system that is fair to all.

T'is the nature of MMOs unfortunately, if you can't play hardcore and want content that people who can play hardcore want, then they're going to get it and you're not. That's why they introduced instancing. So everyone could experience the content not just the hardcore player.

[Taxi]

Ive thought about it this morning, and i dont think this server is ready to deal with people passing spectres through docks and then zoning after. I would be, but im betting 90% of the server isnt ready to deal with that kind of stuff. It would probably kill the server. All it takes is 5 dedicated people who get their enjoyment solely from griefing. Again, i would enjoy that kind of on-your-toes-all-the-time gameplay but its not for everyone. If people bitch about how they are entitled to their camps, theyre never going to go for this.

[AWOL]

EQ end game content is not supposed to be handed out to you on a plater with a rotation system. It's supposed challenging and competed for by a select few guilds. If you want access to end game content then apply and join the guilds that have access this content if you have what it takes. Otherwise continue to enjoy your family and friends guild but don't come crying to GMs because the big boys won't let you play with their toys. With the release of each expansion more content becomes available and the top guilds will start to lose interest on old bosses and when that happens you will get to try to take down naggy and vox with your pickup raid.

[sidgb]

EQ end game content is not supposed to be handed out to you on a plater with a rotation system. It's supposed challenging and competed for by a select few guilds. If you want access to end game content then apply and join the guilds that have access this content if you have what it takes. Otherwise continue to enjoy your family and friends guild but don't come crying to GMs because the big boys won't let you play with their toys. With the release of each expansion more content becomes available and the top guilds will start to lose interest on old bosses and when that happens you will get to try to take down naggy and vox with your pickup raid.

As I understand it, it's the big boys crying to the GM's about each other and trying to lock out the up and coming little guys that are moving in on what they think is their turf.

[Phallax]

As much as we dont want GM intervention, this is needed, and not exactly GM intervention but them enforcing the rules

6. AFK camping is not respected and is frowned upon, if caught afk camping you will be booted to the character select screen.

Majority of raid target campers AFK and this is frowned upon. Lets get active GMs and start char select booting people!

(Posting in all 100 posts about camping!)

[Aadill]

Was that in reference to AFK exping or sitting at a spawn point AFK for hours? Like, how would Hadden work under that ruleset? Could one person watch another at Hadden and call a GM to boot them the moment they don't move after a period of time?

I get what you're saying, but I believe that between player made rules and GM rules we're seeing many conflicts about what's allowable and what's being followed.

I do know I have seen a few guides try to port people out for being AFK, but you cannot prove if someone is legitimately AFK unless you watch them or go deep into logs to check for recent activity. In this situation, people suddenly end up in another zone that they weren't in before due to GM involvement and now you've got people that are pissed because the rules are being enforced but in the wrong manner. That's no good, either!

[Phallax]

Its a GM rule and yea camping Hadden is a prime example and Ive seen it used.

People dont get booted to bind, just to character select. They just have to log back in and be exactly where they were when the GM banned them. If GMs interacted enough that leapfrogging started to happen do to majority of campers AFKing and guilds dropping under 15. The camping would most likely stop, cuz youre not going to get 15+ members to stay at their keyboards 100% of the time doing nothing.

We already have GMs/Guides that willingly hang out at the camps and watch over things, so they could monior this easily.

Send members tells, if they dont respond in a said amount of time /boot

[Taxi]

Was that in reference to AFK exping or sitting at a spawn point AFK for hours? Like, how would Hadden work under that ruleset? Could one person watch another at Hadden and call a GM to boot them the moment they don't move after a period of time?

I get what you're saying, but I believe that between player made rules and GM rules we're seeing many conflicts about what's allowable and what's being followed.

I do know I have seen a few guides try to port people out for being AFK, but you cannot prove if someone is legitimately AFK unless you watch them or go deep into logs to check for recent activity. In this situation, people suddenly end up in another zone that they weren't in before due to GM involvement and now you've got people that are pissed because the rules are being enforced but in the wrong manner. That's no good, either!

I wont touch FFA for this example. This is how i think it should go, if we stay within the current camping rules.

You sneak on the Lord or Hadden camp. Guy is afk. Lord pops. Hadden pops. Tick tick tick you wait 30 seconds, guy doesnt move. You kill the mob, loot and AFK guy says wtf, you lol and ride into the sunset.

[Aadill]

The time between spawns are the real issue that Phallax is getting at. Camping Hadden for the 8 hours in between spawns technically only requires the kill on him, as that is the player-defined area of the camp. AFK or not the camp is clear by the person claiming it, so is that considered AFK camping? Would he have to sit there for 8 hours?

Camp is being held as appropriate, yet the person is AFK. That's the kind of conflict I'm interested in knowing how it would come down. It's a very specific situation but these are the special cases that you have to add to the rules that are a blanketed attempt to fix other problems. In the end you'd have a long list of exceptions, because you know these will come up.

[Aadill]

Not that I'm trying to shoot the idea down but there are flaws that cannot be accounted for immediately, however the theory exists. Because of that it becomes important to realize the overall repercussions of any rules made.

[Taxi]

The time between spawns are the real issue that Phallax is getting at. Camping Hadden for the 8 hours in between spawns technically only requires the kill on him, as that is the player-defined area of the camp. AFK or not the camp is clear by the person claiming it, so is that considered AFK camping? Would he have to sit there for 8 hours?

Camp is being held as appropriate, yet the person is AFK. That's the kind of conflict I'm interested in knowing how it would come down. It's a very specific situation but these are the special cases that you have to add to the rules that are a blanketed attempt to fix other problems. In the end you'd have a long list of exceptions, because you know these will come up.

I think we can be quite general about it. If someone hasnt engaged 30sec after mob is up, hes afk camping.

[Aadill]

Again, I'm not referring to engaging a mob that has spawned, but the time in between mob spawns. Hadden is a great example because of the length of his respawn. Is it AFK camping if the camp is cleared, Hadden is down, and you go AFK while the 5 hours pass that you are waiting for him to respawn? Are you camping the Hadden camp? Yes. Are you AFK? Yes. Does this mean you get kicked to the select screen despite following other rules that are in place on the server? Yes/No?

As for raid encounters: How does that work? Technically you are camping something that isn't up. In essence the camp is cleared and you are holding it. On the flip side, some people are AFK camping.

Which rule do you follow? Which rule does a GM pick to act on?

[Taxi]

Again, I'm not referring to engaging a mob that has spawned, but the time in between mob spawns. Hadden is a great example because of the length of his respawn. Is it AFK camping if the camp is cleared, Hadden is down, and you go AFK while the 5 hours pass that you are waiting for him to respawn? Are you camping the Hadden camp? Yes. Are you AFK? Yes. Does this mean you get kicked to the select screen despite following other rules that are in place on the server? Yes/No?


Personally i think they should drop this afk kick rule, its just... if youre afk after the mob pops, someone can take it and its QQ for you.

[Nizzarr]

Personally i think they should drop this afk kick rule, its just... if youre afk after the mob pops, someone can take it and its QQ for you.

It took 100 post to come down to this, but its already like that sir :)

[Aadill]

Personally i think they should drop this afk kick rule, its just... if youre afk after the mob pops, someone can take it and its QQ for you.

That's how it exists for regular camps right now. In fact, even a roll call exists to see if the raid force that has claim is AFK or not.

In essence, what you've described is how it currently works for camps and raid targets alike. The camps are just extremely long for raid targets.

[Aadill]

That's how it exists for regular camps right now. In fact, even a roll call exists to see if the raid force that has claim is AFK or not.

In essence, what you've described is how it currently works for camps and raid targets alike. The camps are just extremely long for raid targets.

That's how it exists for regular and raid camps alike right now*

[braveheart]

kunark!!!

[Taxi]

That's how it exists for regular and raid camps alike right now*

Well if GMs dont ply in to QQers that you took their mobs cuz they went to take a shit or whatever phony reason they come up with to justify they were afk camping, thats good. Cuz ive seen plenty of AFK camping at Hadden. And of course youd be afk camping, who in their right mind is gonna stay in front of a screen alert for 5 hours straight.

But thats not the main meat of my post, which was that people can perma-lock mobs and pass them on to their buddies.

[sidgb]

Well if GMs dont ply in to QQers that you took their mobs cuz they went to take a shit or whatever phony reason they come up with to justify they were afk camping, thats good. Cuz ive seen plenty of AFK camping at Hadden. And of course youd be afk camping, who in their right mind is gonna stay in front of a screen alert for 5 hours straight.

But thats not the main meat of my post, which was that people can perma-lock mobs and pass them on to their buddies.

I have seen AFK camping with the AFK flag up on the toon.

ANd yes they really were AFK.

[Phallax]

If caught AFK camping, no matter what spawn youre camping it is a bootable offense, Ive seen it personally at Hadden while i was trying to get Pyz to spawn.
Its not hard to AFK camp if you set your audio triggers. But if youre trully AFK and no where near the comp during a long respawn such as Hadden, ToV dude in HHP, anything thats a long ass camp. Its bootable.

Its an inconvenience at most but that sort of inconvenience can get annoying quickly when booted over and over.

[Supreme]

T'is the nature of MMOs unfortunately, if you can't play hardcore and want content that people who can play hardcore want, then they're going to get it and you're not. That's why they introduced instancing. So everyone could experience the content not just the hardcore player.

yeppers. Like i have said it is unfair to push a rotation onto those that are hardcore. Just like it is unfair to push hardcore on those that want a rotation.

But life isnt fair so you have to choose to either play and live with the decision of the powers that be or not play.

Nizzarr sees the problem and only wants to try and find some kind of middle ground..which unfortunately there is not.

[Alawen Everywhere]

yeppers. Like i have said it is unfair to push a rotation onto those that are hardcore. Just like it is unfair to push hardcore on those that want a rotation.

But life isnt fair so you have to choose to either play and live with the decision of the powers that be or not play.

Nizzarr sees the problem and only wants to try and find some kind of middle ground..which unfortunately there is not.

You are implying knowledge of Nizzarr's motivations. I find that to be a disingenuous statement.

The last time Nizzarr got involved with raiding rules, many of his ideas were implemented. He promptly left the server for about four months.

Now he's come back, found a loophole to exploit in his own rule system and is once again recommending changes to the rules to repair the problem he created with both his ideas and his behavior.

Based on his past actions, it would seem likely that Nizzarr will push for a rules change and then disappear from the server for several months. I think this is extremely abusive. It seems to me that Nizzarr is amusing himself by manipulating the policies and politics of the server and that he has very little vested interest in the community. Since returning, he has turned on his old guildmates and repeatedly accuses them of creating a situation which in fact he created.

I've known Nizzarr distantly since about 2001. I had great respect for him both as a person and as a player. That respect has disappeared in the last few weeks. I think Nizzarr is on a vendetta against Xzerion and Wonton and he doesn't care who or what gets in the way of his revenge. I think he's on a power trip and he feels no more loyalty to Dark Ascension or Project 1999 than he did toward Inglourious Basterds. Despite his assertions to the contrary, I think what's good for the majority of the server is of little concern to Nizzarr, and I think his lack of consideration for lower profile guilds like Transcendence and for pickup raids is evidence of that untruth.

If Nizzarr's demands for a rotation are implemented, I fully expect Nizzarr to enjoy a week or two of enjoyment from toppling Inglourious Basterds and ensuring that there is no top tier guild on Project 1999 and then disappear from the server once again until the next time he wants to mess with our server with very little commitment, responsibility or consequence.

[Taxi]

You are implying knowledge of Nizzarr's motivations. I find that to be a disingenuous statement.



Wall of text explaining Nizzar's motivations

[Alawen Everywhere]

Perhaps, Taxi, you missed key phrases such as "I think" and "it seems". My speculation was presented as a counterpoint to Supreme's speculation. Supreme's speculation was presented as a point of fact, which it is clearly not. None of us know why Nizzarr is doing what he's doing except Nizzarr.

I do understand the meanings of words and I tend to choose them carefully.

[Taxi]

Perhaps, Taxi, you missed key phrases such as "I think" and "it seems". My speculation was presented as a counterpoint to Supreme's speculation. Supreme's speculation was presented as a point of fact, which it is clearly not. None of us know why Nizzarr is doing what he's doing except Nizzarr.

I do understand the meanings of words and I tend to choose them carefully.

Yea so youre positive 80 or 90% that Nizzar quit after suggesting rulesets because he was like lol, my evil plan has been unleashed, now let them simmer in their juices for a couple of months, and then for the finale, the masterstroke, , the finish him, CAMP ROTATE! MUH HA HA!!! Theyll never recover from this crippling blow.

[G13]

If caught AFK camping, no matter what spawn youre camping it is a bootable offense, Ive seen it personally at Hadden while i was trying to get Pyz to spawn.
Its not hard to AFK camp if you set your audio triggers. But if youre trully AFK and no where near the comp during a long respawn such as Hadden, ToV dude in HHP, anything thats a long ass camp. Its bootable.

Its an inconvenience at most but that sort of inconvenience can get annoying quickly when booted over and over.

That's why there is a thing called "roll call" when the boss spawns

[Stepy]

I remember back in the old days when i was camping Hadden for the earring i had my alarm clock set for 5 hours and 30 mins in advance so i could either log in or port to bind spot at Hadden. If someone was there already i'd wait around to get the time it died and set alarm again, eventually i got the earring and 2 for my alts.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Yea so youre positive 80 or 90% that Nizzar quit after suggesting rulesets because he was like lol, my evil plan has been unleashed, now let them simmer in their juices for a couple of months, and then for the finale, the masterstroke, , the finish him, CAMP ROTATE! MUH HA HA!!! Theyll never recover from this crippling blow.

No, of course I'm not positive, which is why I explicitly included phrases like "I think" and "it seems".

Unlike me, you seem to be using the word "positive" loosely. Positive means admitting of no question. Your phrase "positive 80 or 90%" (clumsy, nearly illiterate) is similar to a phrase like "a little bit pregnant". These are boolean conditions. One is either positive or one is unsure. My facts were stated as facts and my thoughts were stated as thoughts.

No, I don't particularly envision Nizzarr as an evil Dick Cheney figure dismantling regulations for fun and profit. As I stated, I don't think he has much vested interest in either his new guild or this server. Nizzarr was in uber guilds on live and I suspect that he couldn't really care less about much of this except the ire he feels toward his former guildmates.

[Taxi]

No, of course I'm not positive, which is why I explicitly included phrases like "I think" and "it seems".

Unlike me, you seem to be using the word "positive" loosely. Positive means admitting of no question. Your phrase "positive 80 or 90%" (clumsy, nearly illiterate) is similar to a phrase like "a little bit pregnant". These are boolean conditions. One is either positive or one is unsure. My facts were stated as facts and my thoughts were stated as thoughts.

No, I don't particularly envision Nizzarr as an evil Dick Cheney figure dismantling regulations for fun and profit. As I stated, I don't think he has much vested interest in either his new guild or this server. Nizzarr was in uber guilds on live and I suspect that he couldn't really care less about much of this except the ire he feels toward his former guildmates.

Well youre positive enough to make accusations. So its ok if i say "I think" and "it seems" that George Bush was directly responsible for planes flying into the WTC? Cuz... it sure looks like it! I think!

See, now were getting somewhere in this R&F thread.

[Aadill]

Alawen:

Nizzarr made a post on the forums about a possible idea that I believe does not wholly represent the beliefs of Dark Ascension, Remedy, Divinity, or Inglourious Basterds. I'd like to invite you to at least acknowledge the fact that because of the thread, other ideas have been passed around in attempt to at least come up with some alternatives to the current ruleset.

There is no combination of words that disguises the reasoning for a particular vote. To make the assumption of these intentions, however, is to place bias in your argument. We, as a community, will never be able to scribe out a ruleset that works for everyone due to this bias. Obviously the next best choice is to benefit as many people that are affected as possible. With the current raid scene, DA and IB are the only ones affected. Other guilds are certainly interested in raiding but the utilization of the current ruleset has pushed out any other participants. I do understand your concern about rotations. Your point is well taken with things such as VP and ST. This is why all of this needs to be discussed.

Some ideas about FFA has been passed around. Other ideas such as Suicide Kings and a soft rotation have also been thrown about. Something like SK offers a rotation to those who mobilize, but still contributes to the problem that you are concerned with. Perhaps it is not as bad as you think, or it is worse than I think.

With the current ruleset we do see some level of competition. It is not the same type, but the rules in place were decided by the players. The "loophole" you keep talking about is, if I'm not mistaken, a post by a GM saying that "if you want to camp your guild out for days on end, go right ahead [you crazy f**ks]". To expound on that: If you are willing to camp, you will receive a reward, assuming you mobilize first, maintain a presence, and do not fail at the encounter. If you choose to go after certain mobs, you understand the risk of losing others. That's the beauty of the variance system. Thus far, IB received Lady Vox and Lord Nagafen; DA received Innoruuk, Maestro, dracoliche, Cazic Thule. Last week it was just the opposite, and Divinity took down Maestro due to a dispute between DA and IB. In all of this, there were choices that were made about which mobs to camp. Is this your idea of classic EQ competition? Perhaps not. Is camping fun? There seems to be a majority vote towards no. The current ruleset does force you to make decisions as to what is best for your guild. I consider that a challenge. Perhaps it is not the best solution, but unless we actually sit down and figure it out, it's going to remain as it is.

[Aarone]

To restate how much i appreciate you guys work, i think the MMO emu scene is where the gaming mod scene was 10 years ago...
Thats why it pains me to see all the bullshit here, people are like ITEMS!! I WANT!! I WANT!! and dont take a breather to try to see long term whats good for the server in general.

<3

Hear hear!!

[Alawen Everywhere]

Well youre positive enough to make accusations. So its ok if i say "I think" and "it seems" that George Bush was directly responsible for planes flying into the WTC? Cuz... it sure looks like it! I think!

See, now were getting somewhere in this R&F thread.

Yes, it is both grammatically correct and logically sound for you to speculate on conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11. There are many bizarre details that make such speculation very interesting. Unfortunately, this sort of talk also tends to get one labeled as a crackpot.

Your implication with this metaphor, of course, is that I am a crackpot for not taking Nizzarr at his word that he only wants what's best for everyone. I have many reasons for believing that is untrue, including the fact that he's involved in wasting the staff's time with petitions to quibble over raid targets, as well as the thinly veiled elitism I see in his proposal.

[Bones]

Yes, it is both grammatically correct and logically sound for you to speculate on conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11. There are many bizarre details that make such speculation very interesting. Unfortunately, this sort of talk also tends to get one labeled as a crackpot.
Sadly this is true :(

[sidgb]

I like thinking everyone else is crazy. makes me feel better about myself.

[eqdruid76]

Which works better, wool or polyester?

[astarothel]

Which works better, wool or polyester?

PVC

[Doughdoh]

The simplest solution, although not realistic at the moment, would be to have a separate PvP server. This way you could "pick your poison" and either choose the server with more rules to resolve disputes or less rules. Although this seems a ridiculous suggestion now, it's worth thinking about if the p99 server population goes through the roof and you decide to start a second server anyways.

I completely sympathize with Taxi, having come from a PvP server where even my own guild (a respected one) trained their adversaries at times and this was kind of fun to be honest. This is just how things were. Even so, the people on this server definitely shouldn't have to alter their experience based on what the few classic pvpers like me consider fun.

[eqgamer]

Hahaha... this talk of original PVP server made me recall a few funny incidents on RZ pre-expansion.

Anyone remember not being able to attack players by guards? As in not just getting aggro from guards, but not being allowed to even ranged attack them? I rolled a rogue on RZ back in 99 and some dude hooked me up with 100pp and a SBD.. I chased this noobie chanter down one day and he ran to guards, where I killed him with my bow from a safe distance. Shortly after I had a GM appear, from him reporting me, and he gave me my very first warning! :eek:

It was also fun to minor illusion yourself as a chanter right outside felwithe to turn into a fire pot and nuke people to death while they ran around completely baffled. :D

Sorry for going off topic!

[eqdruid76]

Hahaha... this talk of original PVP server made me recall a few funny incidents on RZ pre-expansion.

Anyone remember not being able to attack players by guards? As in not just getting aggro from guards, but not being allowed to even ranged attack them? I rolled a rogue on RZ back in 99 and some dude hooked me up with 100pp and a SBD.. I chased this noobie chanter down one day and he ran to guards, where I killed him with my bow from a safe distance. Shortly after I had a GM appear, from him reporting me, and he gave me my very first warning! :eek:

It was also fun to minor illusion yourself as a chanter right outside felwithe to turn into a fire pot and nuke people to death while they ran around completely baffled. :D

Sorry for going off topic!

[bullet]

Hahaha... this talk of original PVP server made me recall a few funny incidents on RZ pre-expansion.

Anyone remember not being able to attack players by guards? As in not just getting aggro from guards, but not being allowed to even ranged attack them? I rolled a rogue on RZ back in 99 and some dude hooked me up with 100pp and a SBD.. I chased this noobie chanter down one day and he ran to guards, where I killed him with my bow from a safe distance. Shortly after I had a GM appear, from him reporting me, and he gave me my very first warning! :eek:

It was also fun to minor illusion yourself as a chanter right outside felwithe to turn into a fire pot and nuke people to death while they ran around completely baffled. :D

Sorry for going off topic!

You are stupid.

:)

[Alawen Everywhere]

Which works better, wool or polyester?

I don't wear any plastic. My clothes are made of cotton, wool and leather.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Hahaha... this talk of original PVP server made me recall a few funny incidents on RZ pre-expansion.

Anyone remember not being able to attack players by guards? As in not just getting aggro from guards, but not being allowed to even ranged attack them? I rolled a rogue on RZ back in 99 and some dude hooked me up with 100pp and a SBD.. I chased this noobie chanter down one day and he ran to guards, where I killed him with my bow from a safe distance. Shortly after I had a GM appear, from him reporting me, and he gave me my very first warning! :eek:

It was also fun to minor illusion yourself as a chanter right outside felwithe to turn into a fire pot and nuke people to death while they ran around completely baffled. :D

Sorry for going off topic!

You just explained why Sullon Zek was the only real PVP server and the others were for pussy wannabes.

[Taxi]

You just explained why Sullon Zek was the only real PVP server and the others were for pussy wannabes.

Im guessing you started when the server opened and were not subjected to a lvl45 wiz camping your corpse in blackburrow?

[Alawen Everywhere]

Im guessing you started when the server opened and were not subjected to a lvl45 wiz camping your corpse in blackburrow?

Get serious. I was on the good team. I've been trained, corpse camped, manaburned, feared underwater, harm touched by four SKs at the same time, chain stunned by a pair of enchanters, you name it. I went into neutral and evil territories alone and almost never got rezes and I fought every day, so because of the xp loss on death, I leveled up about three times over.

And I talked shit back to whoever was kicking my ass the entire time and kicked plenty of ass of my own. I was top ten in kills for a long time even after I quit.

[eqgamer]

You just explained why Sullon Zek was the only real PVP server and the others were for pussy wannabes.

Straight outta Compton with that shit!

I lol'd about you thinking you were gangster because your PVP was more hardcore than my PVP.

Oh, and if you had played on RZ you'd know those rules I outlined only lasted for a very short time.

[Taxi]

Get serious. I was on the good team. I've been trained, corpse camped, manaburned, feared underwater, harm touched by four SKs at the same time, chain stunned by a pair of enchanters, you name it. I went into neutral and evil territories alone and almost never got rezes and I fought every day, so because of the xp loss on death, I leveled up about three times over.

And I talked shit back to whoever was kicking my ass the entire time and kicked plenty of ass of my own. I was top ten in kills for a long time even after I quit.

If id start today id pick Sullon for sure, its just back when i played guilds were sort of a new concept and i played as a lone wolf type character most of the times, so that didnt help make Sullon a good starting point. I started in 2001, would probably have been better if i had started in 99, not sure when server though.

[eqgamer]

Side note:

Rallos Zek = 1999 Release

Sullon Zek = 2001 Release

Grats on flaming a server that pre-dated Sullon by 2 years.

[AWOL]

Can we have a poll to see what the server wide opinion is?

[Zigo]

STD's? :eek:

Hell yeah, whoever has the most STD's gets the aggro. Why most tanks are oger.

[2pair]

One of the main problems with this debate is there is no system besides the status quo that DA or IB will benefit from, and being that they are the main forces on this server it will be difficult to get anything done without either of them on the bandwagon.

We as Americans know the difference between the progressives and reactionaries so you have to look deep into your soul and ask yourself what you want to be: a component of change? Or be destined to wallow in the mire that you are creating?

The short sighted greed of the two major guilds on this server will cause the problems we face now to expand and grow until there are disputes between multiple guilds as to who exactly has control of whatever spawned. I mean what happens when a new guild emerges who has as much time on their hands as da/ib? what if two more incarnations came out? That means that there were 60 people in the zone from 4 different guilds and the monster spawns, who gets it?

There has to be a concrete system that comes out and the GM's just have to step in and say this is the way it is-- I'm all for democracy but when you have a bunch of squabbling bureaucrats with ulterior motives the community is the one who suffers.

At this point the major guilds are just filibustering for the present rules because in the current system provides them with whatever they want, whenever it spawns because other guilds are casual instead of wasting their lives waiting for dragons to spawn, but is that fair?


this was kinda ill conceived and im in a rush to get out the door but that's roughly my opinion

[Svampefarr]

One of the main problems with this debate is there is no system besides the status quo that DA or IB will benefit from, and being that they are the main forces on this server it will be difficult to get anything done without either of them on the bandwagon.

We as Americans know the difference between the progressives and reactionaries so you have to look deep into your soul and ask yourself what you want to be: a component of change? Or be destined to wallow in the mire that you are creating?

The short sighted greed of the two major guilds on this server will cause the problems we face now to expand and grow until there are disputes between multiple guilds as to who exactly has control of whatever spawned. I mean what happens when a new guild emerges who has as much time on their hands as da/ib? what if two more incarnations came out? That means that there were 60 people in the zone from 4 different guilds and the monster spawns, who gets it?

There has to be a concrete system that comes out and the GM's just have to step in and say this is the way it is-- I'm all for democracy but when you have a bunch of squabbling bureaucrats with ulterior motives the community is the one who suffers.

At this point the major guilds are just filibustering for the present rules because in the current system provides them with whatever they want, whenever it spawns because other guilds are casual instead of wasting their lives waiting for dragons to spawn, but is that fair?


this was kinda ill conceived and im in a rush to get out the door but that's roughly my opinion

In short, P99 is screwed and sinking fast. Atleast it's staying classic.

[girth]

At this point the major guilds are just filibustering for the present rules because in the current system provides them with whatever they want, whenever it spawns because other guilds are casual instead of wasting their lives waiting for dragons to spawn, but is that fair?


Maybe you missed the post/thread where Xzerion said he wants to change the rules away from camping, but the officers of DA cannot agree to something. Some want it to change, some know its the only way to get mobs for them.

[ShadowWulf]

Easy.

FFA..... mob spawns, everyone attacks it, whoever kills it gets it, the rest can piss off. Dont need to ban anybody, dont need to do shit.

Or just enable global PvP flags in certain zones, yea its not classic but alot isnt here anyways, and let them kill each other over the FBSS.

[holkan]

Easy.

FFA..... mob spawns, everyone attacks it, whoever kills it gets it, the rest can piss off. Dont need to ban anybody, dont need to do shit.

Or just enable global PvP flags in certain zones, yea its not classic but alot isnt here anyways, and let them kill each other over the FBSS.

what do you think the group comp that got the KS would be?

[tal597]

This entire thread could serve as a treatise on why instance dungeons were created in nearly every game post EQ.

[Omnimorph]

This entire thread could serve as a treatise on why instance dungeons were created in nearly every game post EQ.

And the 700+ people who play on here and treat it so seriously to the point of spending 12+ hours camping mobs will tell you why instancing sucks balls :p

[Swishahouse]

Bumamgar is a fucking developer here?

Wooooooah. At least he has security in knowing his guild won't be getting banned for MQ2 use here.

You sir are bullshit.

[2pair]

Maybe you missed the post/thread where Xzerion said he wants to change the rules away from camping, but the officers of DA cannot agree to something. Some want it to change, some know its the only way to get mobs for them.

no i didn't read any of this thread aside from the first page and don't really plan to-- but to quote south park xzerion is allowing DA "to have their cake, and eat it too." I don't mean to be saying he is specifically lying, but cornering the market in any venture is great for the company.

[rioisk]

Really the only easy alternative to poopsocking is agreed rotation. The end.

[rioisk]

But alas, people's "skill" (ie time spend on game) makes them think they deserve the loots.

[darkblade717]

what do you think the group comp that got the KS would be?

5 Wizards and a Cleric.

[Sizzle]

Maybe you missed the post/thread where Xzerion said he wants to change the rules away from camping, but the officers of DA cannot agree to something. Some want it to change, some know its the only way to get mobs for them.

Wait a sec, who is actually in charge of creating these "rules"?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

If you're there, and can control it and engage the mob within a reasonable time, ie not waiting for help, it's yours. IT can be abused but shrug. I never actually had to experience guilds camping a mob and farming it, guilds would have a group down, if they needed a person you jumped in and got at the end of the line. The understanding was you stayed on after you had yours if group needed you usually.

I don't see why it's so hard to just be mature and unselfish.... I got all that immaturity out of my system the first few months of 99...

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I should also note if someone was enough of a jackass, I can use fd to deadly effect. Got warned for threatening it once after that, no more threats. Just action. But if they got the camp, they got the camp. Guilds should work together and gear each other up, cuz they will need it for tougher mobs etc. Problem is tv killed the radio, and I was never a fan of enclosed enviroments such as guilds that only interacted with guilds.

I guess my classic eq experience was alot different then most, because if what I hear about is how those people want it, go back to live and don't ruin this for everyone else!


It sucks sometimes, but no system other then mine is perfect. Shaere da 'loot!

[vinx]

Get serious. I was on the good team. I've been trained, corpse camped, manaburned, feared underwater, harm touched by four SKs at the same time, chain stunned by a pair of enchanters, you name it. I went into neutral and evil territories alone and almost never got rezes and I fought every day, so because of the xp loss on death, I leveled up about three times over.

And I talked shit back to whoever was kicking my ass the entire time and kicked plenty of ass of my own. I was top ten in kills for a long time even after I quit.

idk why people from Rz/Sz think the rest of us didnt go thru the same things.
we had to bag our gear to for a few weeks, had same ruleset beside level spread and alot of us adjusted just fine.
i done even know why they stopped the loot items on other servers, cept maybe alot of QQin from general populations idk, but those 2 rules are the only thing that seperated us. well maybe deity but eh, same thing as race /shrug

but srsly people, get over yourselves.

[darkblade717]

So in live you had GMs regulating who had a rightful claim to a camp and who didnt? It was so not like that on Rallos Zek and im highly doubtful that GMs had such a heavy-handed approach to camps back on live blue servers.

Can anyone confirm this?

Actually, on live we had high end guilds that were actually led by mature people, and not greedy fucks, who were capable of working out systems with other people to make sure everyone that was capable got a shot at raid targets.

[darkblade717]

Rogean, "No matter what system is in place there is always complaints about it."
/nod. but then it makes for suck funny reading

The solution will come when there is more of a world. Once Kunark hits camps will open up.

Yea, old world camps will open up, while Seb and whatever else is being perma-camped for spells/loot.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I have another response...


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[h0tr0d (shaere)]

OK that didn't work.

Now.. what you do you own the world?
How do you own disorder...disorder...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iywaBOMvYLI

[rioisk]

One of the main problems with this debate is there is no system besides the status quo that DA or IB will benefit from, and being that they are the main forces on this server it will be difficult to get anything done without either of them on the bandwagon.

We as Americans know the difference between the progressives and reactionaries so you have to look deep into your soul and ask yourself what you want to be: a component of change? Or be destined to wallow in the mire that you are creating?

The short sighted greed of the two major guilds on this server will cause the problems we face now to expand and grow until there are disputes between multiple guilds as to who exactly has control of whatever spawned. I mean what happens when a new guild emerges who has as much time on their hands as da/ib? what if two more incarnations came out? That means that there were 60 people in the zone from 4 different guilds and the monster spawns, who gets it?

There has to be a concrete system that comes out and the GM's just have to step in and say this is the way it is-- I'm all for democracy but when you have a bunch of squabbling bureaucrats with ulterior motives the community is the one who suffers.

At this point the major guilds are just filibustering for the present rules because in the current system provides them with whatever they want, whenever it spawns because other guilds are casual instead of wasting their lives waiting for dragons to spawn, but is that fair?


this was kinda ill conceived and im in a rush to get out the door but that's roughly my opinion

^this

[darkblade717]

One of the main problems with this debate is there is no system besides the status quo that DA or IB will benefit from, and being that they are the main forces on this server it will be difficult to get anything done without either of them on the bandwagon.

We as Americans know the difference between the progressives and reactionaries so you have to look deep into your soul and ask yourself what you want to be: a component of change? Or be destined to wallow in the mire that you are creating?

The short sighted greed of the two major guilds on this server will cause the problems we face now to expand and grow until there are disputes between multiple guilds as to who exactly has control of whatever spawned. I mean what happens when a new guild emerges who has as much time on their hands as da/ib? what if two more incarnations came out? That means that there were 60 people in the zone from 4 different guilds and the monster spawns, who gets it?

There has to be a concrete system that comes out and the GM's just have to step in and say this is the way it is-- I'm all for democracy but when you have a bunch of squabbling bureaucrats with ulterior motives the community is the one who suffers.

At this point the major guilds are just filibustering for the present rules because in the current system provides them with whatever they want, whenever it spawns because other guilds are casual instead of wasting their lives waiting for dragons to spawn, but is that fair?


this was kinda ill conceived and im in a rush to get out the door but that's roughly my opinion

I really hate to admit this but jackass is right. The current system is only favorable to IB and DA and that is 1- far from what classic was (as EQ staff/volunteers weren't allowed to play on the servers they are working on) and 2- total and complete bullshit.

I've heard claims of favoritism from staff going on with certain people in a certain dev's guild saying they won't be banned for doing illegal things because of the dev being their GM, and that right there is cause enough for something needing a serious change. The fact that someone would even THINK that they are immune to disciplinary action just because of who is in their guild is total garbage, plain and simple.

[mitic]

a guild camping 1 mob for days just to get some classic items deserves the loot. i have better things to do than sitting in a zone staring at a spawn for endless hours, but well, thats me....

[darkblade717]

a guild camping 1 mob for days just to get some classic items deserves the loot. i have better things to do than sitting in a zone staring at a spawn for endless hours, but well, thats me....

/gems

[Noleafclover]

DPS race would be fun. Who would win that, 6 wizzie group, or 6 mage group?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

first come, first serve.

[Phallax]

DPS race would be fun. Who would win that, 6 wizzie group, or 6 mage group?

6 rogues

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

what i mean by that is if you got the raid force to engage a mob..its yours. I don't remember ever rushing a raid force either, if I saw a raid engage and wipe, they might get another shot.

But the agreement between them is between them, if like you say a 3rd or 4th guild arises to raid stuff... they need a new agreement or it simply doesn't apply.

I don't like ffa and ksing and shiz. and won't play the 'we have 46 players you have 40", or rush to fill a zone and run by a raid force... but 15 members.. as heep said... laff.

That being said, as I said, as they said.... loll that agreement is theirs, and I'm not going to say good or bad, it is between them. If I am ever involved in such a meeting of the minds as it were...then I would.

But I always played common sense and play nice. If you had the force there, go ahead and try. if you didn't and we did, step aside.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

oh, and I was always a fan of sharing, or shaereing... the golden rule and well.. this is a PVE server right, not a PVP?

[Combo]

1.) It's all crooked bullshit.
2.) It won't ever go away as accounts are free.
3.) GMs need to stay out of enforcing pacts and spawn right deals between guilds. Instead, spend your time punishing training and griefing with hard suspensions and perma-bans for multiple offenders. The nerdragers in the guild will inevitably self-destruct and, after a period of multiple bans and suspensions from the top guilds on the server, self-regulation will kick in and you guys won't have to respond to these crying manchildren.
4.) #3 will never happen because there are GMs in the guilds that camp shit.

[astarothel]

5) People will always complain about fairness, even when it isn't an issue.

[Overcast]

6) Others will find something else to camp.

[Swishahouse]

Its fine to camp in the zone or whatever for the mob you want. The problem on raiding is the 30 minute lockout that exists. This makes mobilization a moot point... its so easy to park there get on the batphone and wake ppl up make pots of coffee, settle in, begin buffing and move to target. If the batphone rang and said OMG GUILD Y is here NOW and they got 10 cats already up in zone and they are buffing NOW. Guild X may now be forced to rush to race that mob and may try it with less people and may die or maybe they wont get enough people this time because they were sleep/drunk/working. Now guild Y has a shot. Make it first to engage end this poopsocking! For a classic server to have such a lame ass EZ mode way to get raid bosses is bullshit.

[mitic]

1.) emu is free to play
2.) if u want loot u gota camp it
3.) if u want loot the ez way, go fukin play instanced life eq
4.) and yes, there would be still the possibility of a calendar system but our beloved devs and gms dont enforce this so see 3.)

stop this endless
http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/miticeq/QQ.jpg
already or leave the server ffs

[Yoite]

i have a suggestion on how to find out which guilds get the target.

1 person from each guild will be selected that week.
the selected people will then partake in a circle jerk.
everyone cums on a cracker, and the last person to cum has to eat the cracker.

[Shannacore]

i have a suggestion on how to find out which guilds get the target.

1 person from each guild will be selected that week.
the selected people will then partake in a circle jerk.
everyone cums on a cracker, and the last person to cum has to eat the cracker.

wtfffffffffffffffff