Is TMO bad for the server?

[Lexical]

There are a lot of accusations and I hate the stagnant arguments that have sprouted thus far. Someone will say "LIEK 150% OF DA SERVER HATE TMO!" and then TMO will be like "NUH UH!" and after 50 threads of that garbage I say "ENOUGH!" Now let's get the stats.

[Atennu]

If people want to stop being treated like nigs from plantation owners (TMO) then they need to work together and over come them.

Fuck all this nonsense that they're toxic for the server blah blah.

[bouncerr 2.0]

Was there rotations on live? No

If players play more than yourself so what? They deserve the loot they put effort into.

Being on top on live, it was the same bullshit there. Haters gonna hate no matter what.

All these accusations of r m t and no fucking proof. Its called u mad.

[Thulack]

Was there rotations on live? No

If players play more than yourself so what? They deserve the loot they put effort into.

Being on top on live, it was the same bullshit there. Haters gonna hate no matter what.

All these accusations of r m t and no fucking proof. Its called u mad.

There were so rotations on live.

[Dark Team]

I remember hearing about blue rotations on live. I played PvP so never had to put up with any of this raid drama; have a feeling it's not gonna be much fun when I reach raid level here.

The TMO I've encountered in game have been really friendly and helpful, but from a third party perspective they probably are bad for the server. It doesn't matter so much how nice your members are on an individual level, if you as a guild won't let anyone else get any real raiding done just because you're established, have the numbers and the means, then I'd call you a bully. It's like they're a blue guild playing with a red mentality, and maybe I'm wrong but I thought people played blue to avoid that sort of thing.

[Godefroi]

Was there rotations on live? No

If players play more than yourself so what? They deserve the loot they put effort into.

Being on top on live, it was the same bullshit there. Haters gonna hate no matter what.

All these accusations of r m t and no fucking proof. Its called u mad.

It's called ur banned trololololololol

[Thulack]

http://www.brellrants.net/brell/viewtopic.php?t=7783&highlight=rotation

Can see talk about the rotation that was in place in classic. We use to have a calander on the site and rotations were planned out a month ahead a time. As said in the thread the rotation was carried on non offically even after it was removed from the boards.

[bouncerr 2.0]

It's called ur banned trololololololol

Yeah when I got toons in your guild. Oh?

[bouncerr 2.0]

Look at them poll results though. Damn ;)

[Doors]

Until red99 stops sucking or pvp is enabled on blue there should be rotations. Not everyone can shit in their socks and log on at 4am to kill the dragon.

[Maze513]

whats odd the yes votes and active bda accounts on forums are close to same value? lol

[Maze513]

Until red99 stops sucking or pvp is enabled on blue there should be rotations. Not everyone can shit in their socks and log on at 4am to kill the dragon.

/duel works fine on my blue server

[Ele]

should have made the votes public :P

[India]

There were so rotations on live.

There may have been rotations on some of the servers, but by no means were there rotations on all of the servers.

[bouncerr 2.0]

There may have been rotations on some of the servers, but by no means were there rotations on all of the servers.

Exactly. On the 4 servers I played there was none.

[bluejam]

No, because if it wasn't TMO it would be someone else.

[Alarti0001]

http://www.brellrants.net/brell/viewtopic.php?t=7783&highlight=rotation

Can see talk about the rotation that was in place in classic. We use to have a calander on the site and rotations were planned out a month ahead a time. As said in the thread the rotation was carried on non offically even after it was removed from the boards.

You do realize the dates on the post you linked were from 2004. In 2004 GoD and OOW were released. Which is nowhere near classic.

[Tecmos Deception]

Until red99 stops sucking or pvp is enabled on blue there should be rotations. Not everyone can shit in their socks and log on at 4am to kill the dragon.

And not everyone can (or cares to) win PvP so they get a chance at PvE pixels.

Try again.

[godlovesninjas]

You really ought to not specify "TMO" in any of these h8 threads because honestly when someone else is at the top and you aren't, you're just going to make the same bitching complaints about them.

It's lonely at the top.

[Dark Team]

You do realize the dates on the post you linked were from 2004. In 2004 GoD and OOW were released. Which is nowhere near classic.

What does this matter? Everyone knows that rotations were a thing, even back in the day. I agree with Doors, and it's a shame that the server devs have decided against forcing a rotation.

Honestly, the best solution would be to just enable PvP 50+; the end game is clearly player versus player regardless.

[Lexical]

should have made the votes public :P

I actually went back and forth on it, but then said fuck it.

[Lexical]

You really ought to not specify "TMO" in any of these h8 threads because honestly when someone else is at the top and you aren't, you're just going to make the same bitching complaints about them.

It's lonely at the top.

These is by no means an "I hate TMO!" thread. I personally voted no. I have had nothing but pleasant times with every member of TMO I have met and see a lot of their members actively helping the community. I will admit they are very well organized and established so raiding against them would be a challenge, but I could never hate them for such a thing. I was just tired of the same crap in the "I hate TMO!" threads and decided to put the next foot forward and see what the server really thinks.... well what RnFs really thinks.

[Alarti0001]

What does this matter? Everyone knows that rotations were a thing, even back in the day. I agree with Doors, and it's a shame that the server devs have decided against forcing a rotation.

Honestly, the best solution would be to just enable PvP 50+; the end game is clearly player versus player regardless.

Show me a multiple guild rotation pre-velious. Hell show me one Pre-Luclin.

Rotations only worked on those servers because there was an excess of raid targets. That does not exist currently.

Derp

[godlovesninjas]

Good on you. I didn't really mean to direct what I said at you, just at TMO threads in general because like you said, it's the same crap over and over. I don't believe devs/GMs have any obligation whatsoever to do anything about contested content – the people at the top will be at the top until the people under them gather up and oust them. Throughout the history of EQ each server has always had its top guild that was at the top since the beginning, and this is where it started.

Anyway my bad, shouldn't have said "you" make complaints. :P

[Dark Team]

Show me a multiple guild rotation pre-velious. Hell show me one Pre-Luclin.

Rotations only worked on those servers because there was an excess of raid targets. That does not exist currently.

Derp

I can't even find the old VZ forum posts, you can't expect us to pull up hard evidence from 1999. It's all just hearsay and memories, on all sides. And I certainly remember reading bluebies talking about rotations back in the Velious days, maybe sooner. There are blue players that remember rotations from way back when, too.

Rotations don't work here because you (and others, don't get me wrong) don't want them to work, plain and simple. There seem to be enough raid targets to keep a couple other high end guilds from quitting entirely even though TMO gets the vast majority of things; you can't expect anyone to believe that it's simply impossible for the server to exist on rotation.

You're not bad guys or anything, you're just kind of selfish.

[BennoFlo]

Most of the bitching and moaning by high-end raiders is probably the result of people getting used to "new-age" MMO's and the instanced content that new-age MMO's provide.

Classic Everquest did not have instanced content, and I think that's part of the fun this game provides.

I raided hardcore in EQ2 for years, and when contested mobs were prevalent (vanilla, DoF, KoS, avatars, etc), it made the game twice as fun. Sitting there with a full raid ready to pull for hours shooting the shit with guildies was part of the excitement and fun.

I personally didn't raid often because of my age during the classic era of EQ, but I assume the excitement is the same.

So my opinion is, if you want free content handed to you on a platter, play a new-age MMO. There are many high-end raiders in those games; go join them. If you want contested content, play here.

As for my opinions on TMO and top guilds in general, it's not how good the guild is that makes them assholes and hated, it's their personalities and how they convey themselves to the general server public. I was in a top 5 guild worldwide in EQ2, and our guild was generally revered and liked on our server. However, I knew of other guilds like treated everyone on the server like shit, and of course, everyone hated them.

If you're going to hate, don't hate the guild, hate the players.

Also, my advice to TMO (if the guild is full of assholes), you can be the most respected or most notorious guild on the server. If you are more respected, the guild will experience more longevity, and the guild won't up and flop.

just my 2cp

[Ele]

Show me a multiple guild rotation pre-velious. Hell show me one Pre-Luclin.

Rotations only worked on those servers because there was an excess of raid targets. That does not exist currently.

Derp

Prexus

Rotations for VS over a dozen guilds deep. Half a dozen guilds for Trakanon. Nag/Vox/CT/Inny/Maestro/Draco all on rotations.

Had to calendar your hate/fear gear raids a month in advance, unless an opening was available.

[Alarti0001]

I can't even find the old VZ forum posts, you can't expect us to pull up hard evidence from 1999. It's all just hearsay and memories, on all sides. And I certainly remember reading bluebies talking about rotations back in the Velious days, maybe sooner. There are blue players that remember rotations from way back when, too.

Rotations don't work here because you (and others, don't get me wrong) don't want them to work, plain and simple. There seem to be enough raid targets to keep a couple other high end guilds from quitting entirely even though TMO gets the vast majority of things; you can't expect anyone to believe that it's simply impossible for the server to exist on rotation.

You're not bad guys or anything, you're just kind of selfish.

We pull up hard evidence from 1999-2000 all the time..... Notice bug reports The current state of the game and the Velious production going on. I absolutely do expect you to come up with evidence other than a "memory". Which of course stores as impressions and not actual fact.

[Autotune]

Prexus

Rotations for VS over a dozen guilds deep. Half a dozen guilds for Trakanon. Nag/Vox/CT/Inny/Maestro/Draco all on rotations.

Had to calendar your hate/fear gear raids a month in advance, unless an opening was available.

sounds so fun! Where do I sign up for that!?

[Alarti0001]

Prexus

Rotations for VS over a dozen guilds deep. Half a dozen guilds for Trakanon. Nag/Vox/CT/Inny/Maestro/Draco all on rotations.

Had to calendar your hate/fear gear raids a month in advance, unless an opening was available.

Need a date ~

Either way this explains exactly why rotations wont work here. With how many raiders we have there would be months of wait time on mobs.

[Dark Team]

We pull up hard evidence from 1999-2000 all the time..... Notice bug reports The current state of the game and the Velious production going on. I absolutely do expect you to come up with evidence other than a "memory". Which of course stores as impressions and not actual fact.

You're comparing records of official (and global) patch notes to unofficial agreements between guilds on specific servers? Why do you want the evidence, anyway? It's not going to change anyone's opinions or attitudes. And you ignored the meat of that post:

Rotations don't work here because you (and others, don't get me wrong) don't want them to work, plain and simple. There seem to be enough raid targets to keep a couple other high end guilds from quitting entirely even though TMO gets the vast majority of things; you can't expect anyone to believe that it's simply impossible for the server to exist on rotation.

[godlovesninjas]

Was it not Velious that introduced zone lockouts? I feel like it was but I haven't played Velious since it retailed, so I'm not the best person to ask. Still, that solves the problem here if so. Add zone lockouts.

Rotations don't work here because you (and others, don't get me wrong) don't want them to work, plain and simple. There seem to be enough raid targets to keep a couple other high end guilds from quitting entirely even though TMO gets the vast majority of things; you can't expect anyone to believe that it's simply impossible for the server to exist on rotation.

As someone who's watched guilds conquer servers and get unseated for years, there are ways around losing the king of the hill game with the top guild on the server. In almost all cases the next three guilds down need to merge, trim fat, and then be willing to sock it to be number one.

The problem is they're not willing to, but are willing to complain that they deserve the same rewards. This is most certainly selfish. You can't look at the reward for something, not be willing to do that thing, and then complain when those who are get those rewards. There are other rewards for your playstyle, and you either need to become comfortable with those things or play differently.

[Ele]

Need a date ~

Either way this explains exactly why rotations wont work here. With how many raiders we have there would be months of wait time on mobs.

1999-2001 couple of months into Velious when Stasis turned the server FCFS.

[kenzar]

Rallos Zek had rotations on targets as early as Kunark and that's a server where there was 0 GM intervention and your problems were to be dealt with through the pvp system or diplomacy. Although the cooperation of the top guilds was only to edge out peacebreakers from what I remember. The rotations lasted into Gates of Discord and probably further, that's just about when I quit.
Rotations work, in fact they work for everyone but only if everyone acknowledges them. They are quite fragile things.

[godlovesninjas]

problems were to be dealt with through the pvp system or diplomacy

/guildwar

[Dark Team]

Blue servers are such a mess, endgame. This right here is the very reason that new age MMOs are watered down with instances :/

[Tarathiel]

Blue servers are such a mess, endgame. This right here is the very reason that new age MMOs are watered down with instances :/

so basically TMO is to blame for modern MMO's being shit, voted yes!

[Alarti0001]

You're comparing records of official (and global) patch notes to unofficial agreements between guilds on specific servers? Why do you want the evidence, anyway? It's not going to change anyone's opinions or attitudes. And you ignored the meat of that post:

See the post above the one you made~

[Alarti0001]

1999-2001 couple of months into Velious when Stasis turned the server FCFS.

My bad... need evidence not recollection. Sorry I didn't specify.

[Dark Team]

See the post above the one you made~

lol

[Alarti0001]

lol

Is this your official response? Or did you not find my post explaining why rotations wont work here? Or did you not find the many threads dedicated to this topic with even more reasons why this wouldnt work?

[Jarnauga]

The server i played on back in live around velious era had a rotation.. karana server, with the well known KGC (Karana Guild Center)

Too lazy to find evidence, but im pretty sure the old Karana players will confirm.

[Ele]

My bad... need evidence not recollection. Sorry I didn't specify.

Before I spend any time going through the Prexus message board archives, what will constitute proof of the existence of rotations during this time period to you?

[Dark Team]

Is this your official response? Or did you not find my post explaining why rotations wont work here? Or did you not find the many threads dedicated to this topic with even more reasons why this wouldnt work?

It's my official response. You're a pretty funny guy, and I can appreciate what you do here.

[cyryllis]

played on 2 servers during live, fennin ro and e.marr and the first rotation that I remember was in plane of time pre-instancing

[Frieza_Prexus]

Before I spend any time going through the Prexus message board archives, what will constitute proof of the existence of rotations during this time period to you?

Don't forget to have a notary stamp it with the Sealord of Braavos as witness.

[Tarathiel]

It's my official response. You're a pretty funny guy, and I can appreciate what you do here.

we welcome you to rnf and hope you enjoy your visit, but please dont feel the resident trolls

alarti is a douche nozzle

[Kraftwerk]

I wish I could find an archive of threads from an old ez board. http://pub173.ezboard.com/btorvboard is old Torvon. Back when I was a ghetto youth a Druid pissed me off and I made a forum handle with his name than created a whole big thread bashing the top 2 guilds. Got him blacklisted a bit, I want to read that thread =(

[Thana8088]

we welcome you to rnf and hope you enjoy your visit, but please dont feel the resident trolls

alarti is a douche nozzle


Yeah, that's Tarathiel's job!

Also, are we hated by 4/5 of the server, or do we comprise 3/5 of the server? I get so confoos.

[Maultriss]

1999-2001 couple of months into Velious when Stasis turned the server FCFS.

I played on Prexus. Tis true.

[Tarathiel]

Yeah, that's Tarathiel's job!


lol oops!

[Ele]

Found a rotation from 2001 on Druzzil Ro with Velious targets !

http://forums.hossguild.org/showthread.php?817-Rotation-Schedule&

Myst, hope you don't mind, gonna get this moved so you won't have to deal with it anymore at this point.

Trak - Hoss (P), CN (F), L`Malla (9/1), GAP (Joined 9/2) Seekers, ML (), IG ()

CT - Hoss (8/29), L`Malla, Vind (), ML ()

Zland - Hoss (8/25), L`Malla (8/31), Seekers, Vind (), ML ()

Kland - Vind (), Hoss (), ML(), L'Malla (), CN (P 9/3), Seekers (P - 9/3)

Dain - ML (9/2), Hoss (), Vind (), L`Malla (), Seekers ()

Statue - Vindi (8/28?), Hoss (9/2), L`Malla, ML ()

Ragefire - ML (8/27), GAP (Joined 9/2), Hoss(T - ), Seekers (T - 9/2), VE, CN (), VH (), L`Malla (), Vind (), IG (), TR (joined 8/25)

Yelinak - Vind (), ML (9/1), Hoss

Sev - Seekers, IG (8/8), L`Malla(8/22), CN (8/26), GAP (Joined 9/2), Vindi, Hoss, VE, VH

Tormax - Vindi (), Hoss(8/30)

Dozekar - Hoss (8/31), [Vindi (P)], CN (), IG ()

Lend - Vindi (P), Hoss (9/1), ML (), L`Malla ()

Sontalak - ML (), L`Malla (), Hoss (F - 9/2), Vindi (P - 9/3)


You know the drill - follow with confirmed dates when mob is down
also double check to be sure you are in the rotations you want to be in

I know it is a pain sometimes - but please post a quick note when a mob is taken down by your guild so we can keep the rotation updated

There are now some (P) up there on various mobs, based on the fact they lived through the days those guilds were due for them. I'll be putting the dates with them and the F's as well.


[Brackets] are temporary removals from rotations.

Based on the guidelines, removing Vind from the Dozekar rotation for a single rotation due to 3 passes in a row.


Current Rotations:
Trak = Seekers
CT = L`Malla
Zlan = Seekers
Klan = Vind
Dain = Hoss
Statue = L`Malla
Ragefire = Hoss
Yelinak = Hoss
Sev = Vind
Tormax = Vind
Doze = CN
Lend = ML
Sont = ML

[Ele]

My bad... need evidence not recollection. Sorry I didn't specify.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7648
Prexus used to have a calendar and rotation up until Velious and then the server went FCFS (first come first served) and I think while people were upset in the beginning it was better in the long run because no one had to manage anything. There are so many mobs in the game now that there is always something up to kill.

Povar rotates the following mobs/encouters:


Avatar of War
***To join AoW rotation, a guild must get Idol past enrage unslowed***

Ssra (Cursed cycle/HP/XTC)
***To enter the rotation, a guild must slay the High Priest***

Emperor Ssra
***A guild enters the rotation when it has killed Emp with its own forces Once a guild has sufficant Emp keys and banes to feel it is ready to attempt Emp, it approachs the guilds on rotation and asks for an attempt. The guild must have entered Ssra rotation first and cleared every mob on it (HP, Cursed, Creator) before an agreed attempt is granted****

Vex Thal
***A guild can ask for a rotation turn when it has completed 40 Vex Thal keys***

Fenin Ro
***To enter the rotation, you must either slay General Raparm, or successfully spawn and kill the Mystical Arbitor of Earth, flagging your guild for PoE B, or slay the fourth avatar of air, (spider isle)***

Corinav
***To enter you need to have killed Fennin Ro, Xegony, Offassa, and Warlord Gintolaken***

Plane Of Time
***I have not seen the formal rules on this one...but basicly if you are flagged, you are on rotation***

All of this info is maintaned on the rotation boards Povar Rotation boards


Link to cache of site we cannot name (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JyvwvVkb0XEJ:www.********.org/forums/446823-post58.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
I guess it was really server dependant. On Prexus, the top guilds actually raided together on vanilla dragons, Trak and VP. I guess that's not to say they didn't cockblock other guilds who wanted to get that stuff. Prexus also had a clusterfucked rotation that benefitted the top guilds and a calendar that near it's end had guilds waiting months for their shot at stuff. Ah, the good old days!

I never could figure out why Prexus players were stupid enough to agree to that rotation bullshit system they have. Last I checked, no where on the box cover or in the manual did it ever say I had to rotate monsters with anyone else. If it moved and had loot, and we had the people online to kill it, it died. If you didnt like it, petition and have the GM show me where it says in the game I need to wait 4 weeks for my turn to kill Vex Thal. If that bothered them then maybe they need to get off there asses and organize faster and get there first.

Rotations are the gayest thing ever in MMO's. All it does is enable the lazy to remain lazy and ignorant.

http://prexus.yuku.com/topic/19933/This-day-in-prexus-history#.UOs78W_Afz4

June 12 2001

Nameless order has Plane of Air

Genesis has Plane of Hate

and

Griffin claw is in fear

http://www.smartcal.com/calendar/1101707?view=Daily&startDate=20010612

http://prexus.yuku.com/topic/21250/The-Secrets-of-Old-Prexus-Revelations-and-Confessions?page=3#.UOs1d2_Afz4
Reason KTF stayed at the top so long was that the leadership was the best at making deals that benefited KTF, while having a solid core of both europeans, americans, and "around the clock" players. Could kill a lot of things euro time, a lot of things est time, a lot of things late PST time. And rotations fucked up the progress for all other guilds once that got implemented. At least, that's my opinion.

I'll have to say I don't remember EA being able to FCFS KTF at the time the deal with unity was made. I was one of the people in KTF arguing against it because I felt we should hinder both unity and EA and would probably be successfull at that, but once it was made, it was a great deal because it killed a lot of the spirit of some guilds, and certain members could be turned to the dark side :)

The one guild I thought could be serious competition later was Stasis - because the only way you could shorten the distance between KTF and the other guilds was by competing and winning FCFS races. And the other guilds seemed to accept the rotations, which was rather stupid of them imho.

[Tarathiel]

rotations were in effect on innoruuk well before kunark even released

[Alarti0001]

Don't forget to have a notary stamp it with the Sealord of Braavos as witness.

I require basic proof. Unlike others who choose to believe in whatever suits their fancy.:confused:

[kenzar]

I'm going to need proof of these 'others' that believe anything that 'tickles their fancy.'

[Alarti0001]

we welcome you to rnf and hope you enjoy your visit, but please dont feel the resident trolls

alarti is a douche nozzle

Thats rich!

[Alarti0001]

I'm going to need proof of these 'others' that believe anything that 'tickles their fancy.'

Look through Xasten's post history on religion. You will find it.

[Ele]

Look through Xasten's post history on religion. You will find it.

Need you to post evidence, telling people to go find it on their own isn't enough.

[bouncerr 2.0]

The problem is they're not willing to, but are willing to complain that they deserve the same rewards. This is most certainly selfish. You can't look at the reward for something, not be willing to do that thing, and then complain when those who are get those rewards. There are other rewards for your playstyle, and you either need to become comfortable with those things or play differently.

Hit the nail on the fuckin head. Give this guy a medal.

[Itap]

Nice post ele

[Alarti0001]

Found a rotation from 2001 on Druzzil Ro with Velious targets !

http://forums.hossguild.org/showthread.php?817-Rotation-Schedule&


Now this is real evidence of a rotation pre luclin. Good job I knew you had it in you.

[Alarti0001]

Need you to post evidence, telling people to go find it on their own isn't enough.

No you are confused. I don't need to convince anyone. I am not trying to persuade you. If I felt I had to persuade then I would post evidence supporting my claim.

[Alarti0001]

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7648

Obviously, these sites are listing post velious mobs and/or planar raids.



Link to cache of site we cannot name (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JyvwvVkb0XEJ:www.********.org/forums/446823-post58.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)


http://prexus.yuku.com/topic/19933/This-day-in-prexus-history#.UOs78W_Afz4



http://prexus.yuku.com/topic/21250/The-Secrets-of-Old-Prexus-Revelations-and-Confessions?page=3#.UOs1d2_Afz4

[Ele]

Obviously, these sites are listing post velious mobs and/or planar raids.

Does that not counter your original point even more so -- that more content means less need for rotations?

And are you asserting that planar armor raids do not count towards "rotations"?

[bouncerr 2.0]

Most rotations didn't come in till instances. Like potime. Just because some shitty servers had it in velious doesn't mean all or many did.

[Ele]

Most rotations didn't come in till instances. Like potime. Just because some shitty servers had it in velious doesn't mean all or many did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way arguing for rotations. I don't like them.

[Lexical]

Now I really do wish the poll was public. 114 votes in the first 5 hours? I smell foul play.

[Ele]

Now I really do wish the poll was public. 114 votes in the first 5 hours? I smell foul play.

See if a mod can make it public ! 50/50 as of right now. I want to know. :p

[Lexical]

See if a mod can make it public ! 50/50 as of right now. I want to know. :p

It would actually be interesting to see which side was more prone to votes from recently made accounts/known alt accounts. Mods plz make the voting public.

[Chedduh]

Idiot kids talking about NO rotations and rotations are bad, yet took advantage and used rotations themselves to get into the dominant position they are in

Also no stupid variance on live to allow for this type of zerg force monopolization

[Frieza_Prexus]

Look through Xasten's post history on religion. You will find it.

You wound me.

When the waiter tells you the soup of the day do you demand to see a manager for proof?

[Tarathiel]

can we turn this into a debate about religion? that would be awesome

[Autotune]

i smell butthurt spam account votes lol.

[Ele]

can we turn this into a debate about religion? that would be awesome

This thread is already completely off point, so why not?

[Alarti0001]

Does that not counter your original point even more so -- that more content means less need for rotations?

And are you asserting that planar armor raids do not count towards "rotations"?

Yes that is what I am asserting. Planar content pops so frequently that rotations on trash farming is easy. Its basically alot of content a full zone of trash to kill every .. 8? hrs. As compared to 1 week on inny/vs etc.

I think Vindi could have a simliar rotation within a few weeks/months also as it has a short repop time.


My thoughts are that comparing a live server with p1999 is somewhat asinine anyways as a majority of P99 has raided these targets before and a large part of the server wants to raid. Compared to live when you had a significantly smaller portion of the server at level cap and ready to raid or even desiring to raid. Not to mention the what almost 2 years kunark has been out and velious being delayed for sooo very very long

[dmann253]

i smell butthurt spam account votes lol.

[Alarti0001]

You wound me.

When the waiter tells you the soup of the day do you demand to see a manager for proof?

This isn't a relevant analogy. You wound yourself with your absense of logic.
Soup exists this is fact. If he told me it was Unicorn soup, well I might not take his word on faith.

[Alarti0001]

i smell butthurt spam account votes lol.

Just redo the post and make it public.

[Godefroi]

here are your statistics Alarti, but it's not 4/5, I'm disappointed :(

[Alarti0001]

here are your statistics Alarti, but it's not 4/5, I'm disappointed :(

It also isnt a scientific poll. Its a targeted audience. It reaches all RnF readers but not the people who abstain from RnF or have no "horse in the race" so to speak.

[Lexical]

There is also no way there wasn't multiple votes going on from people. Last poll was mine with 64 votes after a couple of days, then some other smaller ones who were lucky to break 20 and this one busts a 127 votes in a little over 5 hours? Fuck it, I am remaking the poll with public votes.

[Frieza_Prexus]

This isn't a relevant analogy. You wound yourself with your absense of logic.
Soup exists this is fact. If he told me it was Unicorn soup, well I might not take his word on faith.

Actually, it's exactly on point. It was meant to illustrate your utter inability to satisfice vis a vis reasonable claims made in a low-stakes discussion. It's certainly a person's prerogative to have eye-roll inducing standards. Just don't be surprised as you become increasingly marginalized.

Try not to rail too hard against the cage of irrelevance. The grownups are trying to talk.

[Lexical]

Public pole is up.

[Splorf22]

Well I have to be honest: it amazes me that there are 20+ people in TMO (the core, not the warm bodies) who after 1+ years of farming Kunark still want to batphone/poopsock raid mobs they have killed tens or even hundreds of times so that new member X/alt Y can get an item. But I suppose I still like farming the same zones after a year, so I'm in the same boat.

The real problem is a lack of progression. Verant was very careful to release expansions every 6-12 months. Kunark has been out for 2 years now almost, and if anything we go through content faster than live since everyone knows all the tricks. Velious had been out a year and Nilbog was winding up for Luclin in a few weeks, 95% of these problems would go away as casual guilds would be able to get targets opened up by more hardcore guilds moving on with their progression. I don't blame Nilbog for this of course; he's only one man.

[Autotune]

Actually, it's exactly on point. It was meant to illustrate your utter inability to satisfice vis a vis reasonable claims made in a low-stakes discussion. It's certainly a person's prerogative to have eye-roll inducing standards. Just don't be surprised as you become increasingly marginalized.

Try not to rail too hard against the cage of irrelevance. The grownups are trying to talk.

No, I don't think I'm trying to talk at all.

[India]

Idiot kids talking about NO rotations and rotations are bad, yet took advantage and used rotations themselves to get into the dominant position they are in

Also no stupid variance on live to allow for this type of zerg force monopolization

Please explain to everyone exactly how TMO used rotations to become the dominant guild on the server.

This should be interesting.

[Autotune]

Stealin moar liek a GROAN up, amirite?

lol

[Alarti0001]

Actually, it's exactly on point. It was meant to illustrate your utter inability to satisfice vis a vis reasonable claims made in a low-stakes discussion. It's certainly a person's prerogative to have eye-roll inducing standards. Just don't be surprised as you become increasingly marginalized.

Try not to rail too hard against the cage of irrelevance. The grownups are trying to talk.

Actually, its not on point, even if you say so~! You presented a non relevant analogy to a situation and called them the same.
Don't be mad though, just because you can't support your claims doesn't mean you are stupid. You just choose to deny logic.

Science has historically been marginalized by those with faith. I don't expect that to change anytime soon especially when faith always find some new way to try to fit modern society into their delusions.

Grownups dont believe in fairy-tales kiddo.

[Alarti0001]

The real problem is a lack of progression. Verant was very careful to release expansions every 6-12 months. Kunark has been out for 2 years now almost, and if anything we go through content faster than live since everyone knows all the tricks. Velious had been out a year and Nilbog was winding up for Luclin in a few weeks, 95% of these problems would go away as casual guilds would be able to get targets opened up by more hardcore guilds moving on with their progression. I don't blame Nilbog for this of course; he's only one man.

I agree with Loraen. Who knew~!?

[Thulack]

You do realize the dates on the post you linked were from 2004. In 2004 GoD and OOW were released. Which is nowhere near classic.

Yes i do because the forum was redone in 2004. If you read the post though they refer to the "rotation" that was in place. as i said we had a calander that listed who had which zones. Like PoSky was raided on a weekend rotation. VS/Trak all of them were on rotation and even as stated in the post i linked our server had a "rotation" up to PoP expac.

[Alarti0001]

Yes i do because the forum was redone in 2004. If you read the post though they refer to the "rotation" that was in place. as i said we had a calander that listed who had which zones. Like PoSky was raided on a weekend rotation. VS/Trak all of them were on rotation and even as stated in the post i linked our server had a "rotation" up to PoP expac.

ya but no starting date. Irrelvant however as Elethia found evidence of a pre-luclin rotation.

[Autotune]

http://i.imgur.com/6vwp4.png
http://i.imgur.com/ntcL6.png?1

Point me?

[Thulack]

ya but no starting date. Irrelvant however as Elethia found evidence of a pre-luclin rotation.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030114223938/http://www.brellrants.net/brell/index.php

the hate and fear boards are empty but shows rotation for Sky.

[Lexical]

Sort of I guess, but the butthurt spam from TMO lol.

nah, too convenient. I mean yes it could be from TMO, but it is likely not due to when he started posting.

[Thulack]

http://web.archive.org/web/20030114223938/http://www.brellrants.net/brell/index.php

the hate and fear boards are empty but shows rotation for Sky.

Bah it didnt link right.

Goto wayback machine and put in: http://www.brellrants.net/brell/index.php

go back to earliest date hit has which is jan 2003. that page will show different forums for the planes for the rotations. not sure what happened to the hate and fear boards but it still shows the rotation for sky.

[Autotune]

Sort of I guess, but the butthurt spam from TMO lol.
Could be lol.
nah, too convenient. I mean yes it could be from TMO, but it is likely not due to when he started posting.

I'd say it's 50/50. Either it's a TMO account voting or it's a spam account on the other side that got a laugh out of my comment and quoted it because he created the spam account.

[Lexical]

Given that he voted for TMO in the public thread, I would say it is almost certainly not TMO.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Actually, its not on point, even if you say so~! You presented a non relevant analogy to a situation and called them the same.
Don't be mad though, just because you can't support your claims doesn't mean you are stupid. You just choose to deny logic.

Science has historically been marginalized by those with faith. I don't expect that to change anytime soon especially when faith always find some new way to try to fit modern society into their delusions.

Grownups dont believe in fairy-tales kiddo.

I'm suddenly talking about religion? I was still rolling my eyes at your demands for proof of a rotation when Elethia played on the server in question. My point was, and still is, that you possess little to no skill at determining the face value of conversational input.

Hence my soup of the day reference. It was a specific construct meant to showcase the absurdity that must take place in your day to day interactions.

[Autotune]

I'm suddenly talking about religion? I was still rolling my eyes at your demands for proof of a rotation when Elethia played on the server in question. My point was, and still is, that you possess little to no skill at determining the face value of conversational input.

Hence my soup of the day reference. It was a specific construct meant to showcase the absurdity that must take place in your day to day interactions.

I played on prexus and remember zero rotations.

[Alarti0001]

I'm suddenly talking about religion? I was still rolling my eyes at your demands for proof of a rotation when Elethia played on the server in question. My point was, and still is, that you possess little to no skill at determining the face value of conversational input.

Hence my soup of the day reference. It was a specific construct meant to showcase the absurdity that must take place in your day to day interactions.

Your statement would make sense if you understood how memories store in our brains. Almost, always we remember things incorrectly from how they happened.

Memories are NOT reliable as information documentation. This is why we have record keeping.

Sorry, you didn't know this. Get informed!

[deneauth]

Why waste anymore energy on this argument. It is what it is, just play on the server or leave its pretty goddamn simple if you ask me.

[Alarti0001]

Your statement would make sense if our brains were hard drives. Almost, always we remember things incorrectly from how they happened.

Memories are NOT reliable as information documentation. This is why we have record keeping.

Sorry, you didn't know this. Get informed!

FTFM

[Frieza_Prexus]

Your statement would make sense if you understood how memories store in our brains. Almost, always we remember things incorrectly from how they happened.

Memories are NOT reliable as information documentation. This is why we have record keeping.

Sorry, you didn't know this. Get informed!

It all makes sense now. You're the guy from Memento.

[Ele]

Your statement would make sense if you understood how memories store in our brains. Almost, always we remember things incorrectly from how they happened.

Memories are NOT reliable as information documentation. This is why we have record keeping.

Sorry, you didn't know this. Get informed!

Scientific American subscription confirmed.

[deneauth]

Why waste anymore energy on this argument. It is what it is, just play on the server or leave its pretty goddamn simple if you ask me.

QFT

Who is this international man of mystery?

[Ele]

I played on prexus and remember zero rotations.

Were you not very young during that time period and also not participating in the end game?

[kotton05]

If you're going to hate, don't hate the guild, hate the players.

[Alarti0001]

It all makes sense now. You're the guy from Memento.

Haven't seen the movie so I can't understand your insult/compliment.

[Alarti0001]

Scientific American subscription confirmed.

Nah!

No subscriptions at all actually. If I was to subscribe it would probably be to Nature or Science.

[Autotune]

Were you not very young during that time period and also not participating in the end game?

define, very young.

also

no i didn't take part of the end game.

[deneauth]

Well first off the rules you referred to above are not really the rules that were violated today, which is what I'm assuming you are referring to. Perhaps indirectly, but not entirely true. If a raid target is up, you better expect competition.

Second, we enforce the rules, we take actions. In the past actions were taken against entire guilds and guild leadership, perhaps at times prematurely. This can still be the case, but only in extreme circumstances. Each situation is judged on its own merit, the disciplinary actions discussed with multiple staff members, and appropriate actions taken.

Third, no matter what actions we take, Guild A (violating guild) says they're too harsh, Guild B (victim guild) says they aren't harsh enough. Honestly, we all need to take a step back and investigate ourselves, our motives, and what we want for the Project 1999 server and community. Is it guild drama, loot whoring, and harsh punishment for crimes committed? Or do we want to foster a better game, communicate with each other, and move the server forward in a better way?

The point of staff disciplinary action is not to remove those responsible from the game, and certainly not to remove those indirectly associated. Not in any way is it about that. It's about teaching people that they are doing something wrong, so that they can correct it, redeem their name, and hopefully make the server a better place in the future. At times, they fail to do that, and that's where permanent bans usually sit (as well as some other one-off circumstances).

The point is, it's a long road, and it's not always easy to interpret staff rules, especially during heated races. It's our job to clarify them as much as possible, make sure people understand them, not make mistakes in enforcing them (we're human), and refine them to fit the vision that the owners of the server see for it.

Sorry you feel violated for whatever has occurred today or in the past. We're all working pretty hard at trying to create a better future for the server, even though at times it may not seem that way.

Edit: I edit a lot. Get over it.

Re read it people and then eat a Snickers bar because you all act like Devas when you are hungry.

[quido]

I'm hungry.

[tekniq]

every server needs a guild like TMO.

[fishingme]

voted yes because tmo/ib drama made us lose two devs

[Eccezan]

http://i.imgur.com/am4hn.gif

[Kraftwerk]

I'm hungry.

Snap into a slim jim.

[gotrocks]

I support server raid calenders.

[Tasslehofp99]

Was there rotations on live? No

If players play more than yourself so what? They deserve the loot they put effort into.

Being on top on live, it was the same bullshit there. Haters gonna hate no matter what.

All these accusations of r m t and no fucking proof. Its called u mad.

lol, dumb.

[nilbog]

To be fair, every raid guild is bad for the 'server' as a whole.

If everyone was level 10-55 and only talked about raiding, the server would be a better place.

[-Taelara]

TMO is horrible for the server. Killing mobs - LOOTING THE LOOT! How dare we. We should just leave the mobs up and gather every 50+ on the server and random loot off.

<3 Nilbog. If people don't like your awesome sandbox they can go play WoW have have instances with no competition. Now those are some healthy servers.

[Taffan]

Need a date ~

Either way this explains exactly why rotations wont work here. With how many raiders we have there would be months of wait time on mobs.

Are there really that many? I only really figured 4-6 guilds could take on the big bosses. Wouldn't that only be a month tops?

[Taffan]

Are there really that many? I only really figured 4-6 guilds could take on the big bosses. Wouldn't that only be a month tops?

Also, with so many targets now - there would be something for each guild to do at least 1-3 times a week.. no?

[Camulet]

Played on Veeshan from 99 - there were definately rotations. And lots of NBG groups (not all) but alot more than on p99.

Server is classic here, community is not imo.

[Alarti0001]

Are there really that many? I only really figured 4-6 guilds could take on the big bosses. Wouldn't that only be a month tops?

There are, and because of variance raid guild sizes are much larger here than during classic.

If a rotation was put in place guilds like TMO, BDA and FE could effectively split into 3 guilds each to take up more rotation slots. Other guild would get on that rotation too since they wouldnt need to worry about variance or instant engages.

[nilbog]

There are, and because of variance raid guild sizes are much larger here than during classic.

If a rotation was put in place guilds like TMO, BDA and FE could effectively split into 3 guilds each to take up more rotation slots. Other guild would get on that rotation too since they wouldnt need to worry about variance or instant engages.

NPC variance isn't forcing humans to guild invite more members. It is a choice.

[Autotune]

NPC variance isn't forcing humans to guild invite more members. It is a choice.

It's the best choice, for winning!

[Autotune]

Seriously though, the advantage of a large roster in the current system far out weighs any disadvantages. That's due soley on the enormous varience in place.

[Frogie305]

http://i47.tinypic.com/25rjsy0.jpg

Not Enough Sprite golems. Refresh your Selfs haters.

[Tasslehofp99]

I played on prexus and remember zero rotations.

There were rotations on prexus for sure that worked out fine, up until velious and <Stasis> came around. They were the first guild to introduce the "FCFS" aka FTE stratedgy on prexus; which in essence dissolved the rotations. Stasis was a top guild for a few months but fizzled out fairly quick due to lack of leadership and a similarity to peace pipe in attitude/maturity.