AA in p99

[Riprop]

Hello everyone, loving the server, just wanted to let everyone know i'll be holding an AA meeting in game every friday night in the EC Tunnel. Come share your story, do some step work, get a sponsor, w/e, much apologies in advance if there are already meetings (please let me know where/when)

see you there!

[Riprop]

i forgot to mention 10PM EST

[Riprop]

hell i'll even through in some NA in there (dont want to deny anyone to meetings) but we will primarily be AA since thats always been my substance of choice

[Hailto]

So we discuss alternate advancement builds i guess?

[Riprop]

I guess I will have to clarify. AA stands for Alcoholics Anonymous. I encourage all of you to join even if you've only had the tiniest drink of alcohol in your life. It has changed my life around and I have seen it work for many friends and family as well. I was a borderline nightmare for the things I have done in my lifetime and I didnt even realize what I was doing until I went to a meeting and someone layed the smack down on me.

[Riprop]

I am also considering making the AA guild so we can have meetings constantly while we play too. I think that would be a terrific idea, any thoughts?

[Riprop]

could even just bring alts in the guild to make it completely anonymous?

[Knuckle]

a troll getting trolled by lord hailto

[Hitchens]

I'm not sure Project 1999 is an appropriate place to start a new chapter of your church, but good luck.

[Riprop]

not trolling, dude, im 100% running the meeting tomorrow in game, maybe you should come by (you probably need it)

[Andrew Jackson]

troll is too obvious cuz he put it in rnf off the bat

[Ephirith]

not funnay my half brother is an alcohol

[Andrew Jackson]

my colleague, Samuel Adams, is also an alcohol

[bouncerr 2.0]

Props to you if this is real. Is cool idea. Goodluck

[BelenosGotHeals]

Substituting alcohol addiction with EverQuest addiction, I like it.

[Knuckle]

troll is too obvious cuz he put it in rnf off the bat

that too, and new skeleton account not even a fire giant yet

[Halfelfbard]

i did all this shit, and it failed. And ur meeting is way to late anyway.

[Grahm]

will be there.

[gotrocks]

AA is not a church. just a heads up.

cool idea, will join in, will also help run meetings if you need it, picking topics, etc. have lots of experience running meetings in the seattle area.

Also, this definitely needs to be AA/NA, as lots of people here are not just or not at all alcoholics but instead have other substance abuse problems. I think this is a cool idea, and may in fact raise peoples awareness of addiction as a serious problem. Besides, AA meeting are for substance abuse as well, whether they are called AA or not. I am definitely not an alcoholic, but i find my favorite meetings are usually AA meetings anyway.

A good meeting with good people wont judge you for being addicted to drugs instead of alcohol, thats kind of the whole point of the program.

Lastly, I very much doubt he is trolling with this. he just put it in RnF because its "not safe for work" and also only vaguely related to p99 in that the meeting is being hosted on the server.

Anyway, good work, actually really excited to see this, send me a pm if you'd like someone to help run the meetings, i'd be more than happy to help.

[Lexical]

AA is not a church. just a heads up.

cool idea, will join in, will also help run meetings if you need it, picking topics, etc. have lots of experience running meetings in the seattle area.

Also, this definitely needs to be AA/NA, as lots of people here are not just or not at all alcoholics but instead have other substance abuse problems. I think this is a cool idea, and may in fact raise peoples awareness of addiction as a serious problem. Besides, AA meeting are for substance abuse as well, whether they are called AA or not. I am definitely not an alcoholic, but i find my favorite meetings are usually AA meetings anyway.

A good meeting with good people wont judge you for being addicted to drugs instead of alcohol, thats kind of the whole point of the program.

Lastly, I very much doubt he is trolling with this. he just put it in RnF because its "not safe for work" and also only vaguely related to p99 in that the meeting is being hosted on the server.

Anyway, good work, actually really excited to see this, send me a pm if you'd like someone to help run the meetings, i'd be more than happy to help.

Look at this fucking boyscout.

But in all seriousness, the only problem I have with AA is their puritanical standards which would diagnose 90+% of Europeans as alcoholics. Also, their 12 step program does hint towards some religious/spiritual context since number 2 is give yourself over to a higher power since you have no willpower blah blah blah and other bull crap.

p.s. this thread is definitely a troll.

[Hailto]

Look at this fucking boyscout.

But in all seriousness, the only problem I have with AA is their puritanical standards which would diagnose 90+% of Europeans as alcoholics. Also, their 12 step program does hint towards some religious/spiritual context since number 2 is give yourself over to a higher power since you have no willpower blah blah blah and other bull crap.

p.s. this thread is definitely a troll.

Why do you no longer come to #p99?

[gotrocks]

Look at this fucking boyscout.

But in all seriousness, the only problem I have with AA is their puritanical standards which would diagnose 90+% of Europeans as alcoholics. Also, their 12 step program does hint towards some religious/spiritual context since number 2 is give yourself over to a higher power since you have no willpower blah blah blah and other bull crap.

p.s. this thread is definitely a troll.

:D

i know alot of people that have turned their lives around as a result of AA. To be honest, regardless of what you think of it, there are very, very few ways for hardcore addicts to get clean, and AA has shown more long term (as in lifetime) success than just about every other program out there.

And yes, it's true that sometimes AA can be a little overzealous about diagnosing alcoholism and addiction, but you'll rarely find an AA member getting in your face about it and trying to force you into a meeting. The majority of people in AA are there because they have hit rock bottom and want help, and their philosophy is that if you need help, you'll come and get it. There are exceptions, of course, but thats the same with anything. Alcoholism/addiction is actually very simple to determine: if it's heavily interfering with your day to day life, work, relationships, or causing problems for you on a consistent basis, you are very likely an addict. There's not much more to it than that.

Also, the religious context in AA is only what you make it. As it's been said many times in AA, your "higher power" is what you make it. I once knew a girl who's higher power was nature. I knew someone else who claimed his higher power was a random object that he owned, though he wouldn't tell anyone what it was. The whole higher power thing is really just used as a tool to give you strength when you have none yourself. There isn't anything about willpower in any of the steps, it simply states that you are powerless against alcohol and drugs, which is in fact the case for most people who come to AA.

I could probably argue about this for pages, but I really don't want to. I'm not some religious/fanatic nut about AA, I just believe that it works for a lot of people, and saves lives. I've got my views on AA, and everyone else can have theirs as well, but the bottom line that I don't think anyone can deny is this: AA has helped alot of people who simply couldn't get it anywhere else. It's saved many, many lives, and asks for nothing in return (AA does not require a fee to come to a meeting. The majority of people who run these meetings are volunteers, and the places they run the meetings at let them use that space for free). I'm not entirely sure how people could classify AA as a "cult" since it doesn't fit any definition that I've seen of what a cult is, but if you'd like to argue to the contrary, I'd be interested in seeing what you have to say.

Lastly, I sincerely hope this isn't a troll, as that'd be both stupid and a dick move. I really thought this was a cool idea, and if the OP doesn't follow through, I'll go ahead and run one myself. go boyscouts :)

[Hailto]

Can i drink crown at the meetings like i generally do when i play EQ?

[Hailto]

I want to troll this meeting with a horrible story of how I was destitute and then found AA, but then at the end tell them all it was fake and that they will relapse and there is no hope.

You're a bad man.

[gotrocks]

Oh, there's one other thing I wanted to add about "religion" in AA, because in my personal opinion, and in the opinion of many others who have done AA, there is no "religion" in the AA program, its about faith. There's a big difference between "religion" (like Christianity) and "faith".

There's a saying in AA that sums this up pretty well. Alot of people have trouble wrapping their head around the whole higher power thing, but these people don't realize that its not required that you go and join a new religion or some shit, it just takes faith. The saying goes, 'Religion is for people who are afraid of hell. Faith is for people who have been there". That statement pretty much sums it up for me.

Anyway, I'll stop my AA preaching now, I know that nobody really wants to hear it. I just think that people who dismiss the 12 step program as being anything other than an extremely helpful and potentially successful tool for drug addicts/alcoholics are probably ignorant of what it really is. I'm not saying EVERYONE is that way, just most of them.

peace :D

[gotrocks]

Can i drink crown at the meetings like i generally do when i play EQ?

Yes :) just dont glorify it.

[Hitchens]

AA isn't a cult, but it's definitely a Christian based organization. While AA does allow people to call nature or rocks or doorknobs a higher power, that's really only to make it more palatable to a secular society. The Big Book is a Christian work.

[gotrocks]

AA isn't a cult, but it's definitely a Christian based organization. While AA does allow people to call nature or rocks or doorknobs a higher power, that's really only to make it more palatable to a secular society. The Big Book is a Christian work.
I've never been a meeting that pushed Christianity as the only way to dealing with addiction.

In fact, i rarely even hear it being talked about in meeting. I don't go very often anymore, if ever, but in all the meetings i've been to it almost never comes up, unless someone is talking about their own personal experience and mention that their higher power was jesus/god.

[Lexical]

Why do you no longer come to #p99?

If you say you miss me, I will come back :D

[Hailto]

If you say you miss me, I will come back :D

That is going too far.

[Lexical]

Some facts about AA:

1. around 40% of participants drop out before the end of the first year
2. only about 20% show long term recovery.
3. AA preaches abstinence not true rehabilitation which would being able to enjoy a drink now and then.

Some sauce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effectiveness_of_Alcoholics_Anonymous

There have been many other successful programs that teach people to drink responsibly and have nothing to do with high powers or any of that spiritual garbage. It teaches willpower and has a high percentage of people completing the program. AA hides behind the numbers it drops with the attitude of "oh they didn't want to get better." The entirety of it is flawed from the get go as it doesn't instill self empowerment but misplaces the addiction which is not healthy for future brain development.

[Lexical]

For clarity on number 2.

Only 20% of the people remaining exhibit long term recovery.

[Hailto]

Hasn't it been proven with at least some scientific basis that if you are a true alcoholic there is no rehabilitation in the sense than you can begin to drink occasionally again with no problem? This is only what i have heard others say mind you, i don't know about the validity of it it.

[Lexical]

That is going too far.

I will accept a public announcement from you that states that you find me tolerable.

[Lexical]

Hasn't it been proven with at least some scientific basis that if you are a true alcoholic there is no rehabilitation in the sense than you can begin to drink occasionally again with no problem? This is only what i have heard others say mind you, i don't know about the validity of it it.

There is a lot of theories on the matter since Psychology is still a young science. There have been many successful programs in Europe, Central America and North America that actually slowly wane alcoholics off of it and then facilitate a healthier behavior that assumes the problem stems from grabbing a drink when reacting to something being social awkwardness, stress, etc. and then cognitively develop other mediums for dealing with such psychological situations.

[Autotune]

How's it anonymous when your name is over your character?

[Humerox]

well...Anne Treisman did just win the National Medal of Science...

[ForeverLost]

MM is a better program.

http://www.moderation.org/

[gotrocks]

its pretty much been proven that true alcoholics cant ever drink "socially" (ie, taking a couple drinks every now and then).

There have been a ton of studies on this. If you're an alcoholic, you're always an alcoholic. You can't condition someone to not be one because its brain chemistry. The programs that are claiming to show people how to drink responsibly are bullshit - that may work for a year, maybe 2 or 3 or 4, but eventually that person is going to go back to being an alcoholic.

doesnt matter what program you're in, long term recovery from alcoholism is extremely rare and difficult. I'd say 20% is probably too high, its more like 10%. Pretty sure thats the highest recovery rate of any program long term. Other programs boast having over 50%, but thats generally after a year at most, and it falls off rapidly after that to around 2-3% if that.

I've done a ton of reading on this for both sides. I've got a really good book you should check out if you're interested in the subject, il try to find the title.

[Enygma]

Is this the guy that bought minyin?

[Godefroi]

oh my god, go talk to a psychologist, this is a fun game not a fucking hospital !!!

[Lexical]

its pretty much been proven that true alcoholics cant ever drink "socially" (ie, taking a couple drinks every now and then).

Give me a source that proves it and I will give you 10 that refute it. Addiction isn't some disease although that is what AA would want you to believe. Granted the severity of addiction does have some to with genetic make up of the addicted that much is proven, but for the vast majority of people who are classified as an alcoholic, they can be completely rehabilitated and have a couple of drinks here and there.

There have been a ton of studies on this. If you're an alcoholic, you're always an alcoholic. You can't condition someone to not be one because its brain chemistry. The programs that are claiming to show people how to drink responsibly are bullshit - that may work for a year, maybe 2 or 3 or 4, but eventually that person is going to go back to being an alcoholic.


doesnt matter what program you're in, long term recovery from alcoholism is extremely rare and difficult. I'd say 20% is probably too high, its more like 10%. Pretty sure thats the highest recovery rate of any program long term. Other programs boast having over 50%, but thats generally after a year at most, and it falls off rapidly after that to around 2-3% if that.

More AA nonsense propaganda. Give me dat sauce.

I've done a ton of reading on this for both sides. I've got a really good book you should check out if you're interested in the subject, il try to find the title.

Give it to me as long as it isn't an AA pamphlet.

But here is some reading for you in the mean time that validates everything I have stated.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-heart-addiction/201010/the-psychology-addiction

http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

[Lexical]

Do you engage the jehovas witnesses that come to your door too?

I do! I met one that was actually a nano-physicist and we had a really engaging conversation over some tea. Most are not nano-physicists sadly :(

[Lexical]

Mormons are my favorite door to door salesmen.

[gotrocks]

Tell me how AA is not this:

cult
/kəlt/
Noun

A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Synonyms
worship - religion - adoration

you be trollin' son.

or you just don't know anything about AA. Probably both. Not really sure what you have against AA, maybe you had a close family member who was an alcoholic and he paid more attention to AA than he did to you.

And Lex, I wont deny that there are indeed some people who can "recover" from alcoholism, but there have been too few long-term studies that show this to be possible.

I don't really want to debate with you simply because no matter what i say, you won't change your mind, and no matter what you say, you won't change my mind. I think that we can both agree that AA does help some people, and for many others i does nothing.

[gotrocks]

But just to humor you, AA is neither of those things. Not even close. There are all kinds of different faiths/religions in AA, so clearly there is no devotion towards a particular figure or object, and unless Christianity is suddenly considered strange or sinister, the second definition doesn't apply either. I think you're just ignorant.

[Thana8088]

Here's an idea: If you don't agree with it, don't fucking go. But don't come in here acting all offended because someone is trying to do something constructive for a possible subset of the population.

[Hitchens]

But just to humor you, AA is neither of those things. Not even close. There are all kinds of different faiths/religions in AA, so clearly there is no devotion towards a particular figure or object, and unless Christianity is suddenly considered strange or sinister, the second definition doesn't apply either. I think you're just ignorant.

Christianity is neither strange nor sinister, which is why I don't understand why it's taboo to point out the religious roots of Alcoholics Anonymous. This is a well known issue within AA, and has been debated since the manuscript of The Big Book was first penned.

[Sirken]

How's it anonymous when your name is over your character?

do lvl 1 gnome alts in tunnel for true anonymous meeting!

[Hitchens]

arab sun god cult

Lay off the Acharya S books. They aren't true. One does not need to invent things in order to criticize religion.

[Lexical]

Religion was pivotal in constructing a large spanning society in the older days. Its ethereal punishment and reward standards formed a cohesive mold for society so it was just a bunch of anarchist communes. For that, I am thankful.

[Lexical]

so it was not just a bunch of anarchist communes.** Damn the no edit in RnF.

[Thana8088]

do lvl 1 gnome alts in tunnel for true anonymous meeting!

Why's it gotta be gnomes?? Are you saying they have substance abuse problems? I would nominate dwarves for that. :p

[Lexical]

Why's it gotta be gnomes?? Are you saying they have substance abuse problems? I would nominate dwarves for that. :p

well both are children of Brell

[Tarathiel]

i smoke weed, and i am ok with this. does that make me an addict??

[Andrew Jackson]

http://i.imgur.com/Gkb58.gif

[Hailto]

i smoke weed, and i am ok with this. does that make me an addict??

As long as you are okay with your addiction, you cannot free yourself.

[Andrew Jackson]

where we meetin up

[Andrew Jackson]

????????? am at shady

[traveler]

Keep coming back it works!

Had to go to 5 in RL; went to one of the larger ones in town; ran into quite a few people i knew. Good story.

[Andrew Jackson]

i ran a troll to ec for this drank honey mead with like 4 other trolls and spammed ooc so wasnt a total loss

[Andrew Jackson]

o but op was clearly a troll as we all knew DUh

[BigSlip]

Hello everyone, loving the server, just wanted to let everyone know i'll be holding an AA meeting in game every friday night in the EC Tunnel. Come share your story, do some step work, get a sponsor, w/e, much apologies in advance if there are already meetings (please let me know where/when)

see you there!

i forgot to mention 10PM EST

hell i'll even through in some NA in there (dont want to deny anyone to meetings) but we will primarily be AA since thats always been my substance of choice

I am also considering making the AA guild so we can have meetings constantly while we play too. I think that would be a terrific idea, any thoughts?

***** you sound drunk as FUCK

[Hailto]

lol'd