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View Full Version : What are warriors holding aggro with pre-yak procs?


Taffan
01-03-2013, 06:34 AM
I know I am grouping with a few warriors, on my ranger, with my woodsman's staff and pulling off them.

Thinking of making a warrior and was just curious if a lammy+fist of zek or something (don't want a buy a wurmslayer, with the upcoming nerf) with an FBSS and a good amount of str would be enough to hold it off those twinkie lower levels?

Tecmos Deception
01-03-2013, 07:22 AM
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80086

I'd be tempted to use a staff of battle at least from 20-yak procs, though. Even though it's slow and it's a 2h and it doesn't proc.

Calabee
01-03-2013, 08:28 AM
when i was lvling culp a long time ago, some war was using deadwood staves, worked fine holding aggro agaisnt a rog.

Calabee
01-03-2013, 08:52 AM
btw why isnt this under the tanks sections.. lol

Taffan
01-03-2013, 03:51 PM
Thanks. Oh.. you're right.. Tank section :P I'm stuck in the melee forums mindset :)

Splorf22
01-03-2013, 03:59 PM
As a warrior you will not be holding aggro consistently vs a twink rogue - evade just doesn't always work. The way it works in theory is that both of you will have roughly the same hate/dps from melee and your procs will compensate aggro-wise if not dps for their backstabs.

Your problem is that all the weapons that proc at low levels have horrible ratios, so you basically have to pick one or the other. I am firmly in the high ratio camp, because if you are holding aggro 50% of the time either way you might as well at least be doing a lot of damage. If you have the cash I'd go SCD+Wurmslayer, if you want to be cheap Lamentation or Jade Mace+Fist of Zek. Honestly I'd keep those all the way up to 46 when you can get a Sarnak Warhammer in the mainhand.

falkun
01-03-2013, 04:14 PM
For low levels, I'm also in the DPS > proc camp. Get some cheap high-DPS weapons until you can get some yaks or a sarnak warhammer and something else.

Taffan
01-03-2013, 07:05 PM
SCD+fist is probably what I would do. Unless I got a wurmslayer for free :P they're going to be a bitch to sell once they are nerfed.

Elements
01-03-2013, 09:32 PM
As a warrior you will not be holding aggro consistently vs a twink rogue - evade just doesn't always work. The way it works in theory is that both of you will have roughly the same hate/dps from melee and your procs will compensate aggro-wise if not dps for their backstabs.

Your problem is that all the weapons that proc at low levels have horrible ratios, so you basically have to pick one or the other. I am firmly in the high ratio camp, because if you are holding aggro 50% of the time either way you might as well at least be doing a lot of damage. If you have the cash I'd go SCD+Wurmslayer, if you want to be cheap Lamentation or Jade Mace+Fist of Zek. Honestly I'd keep those all the way up to 46 when you can get a Sarnak Warhammer in the mainhand.

Totally agree with this. Toss in a CoF and your good to go.

bouncerr 2.0
01-03-2013, 11:19 PM
Don't bother with sarnak war hammer highly overrated and not that great. 5 or 6 sec stun gives time for the other DPs to build aggro again. Yaks give that snap instant that you want.

Tecmos Deception
01-04-2013, 08:50 AM
Do reasonably affordable one handers really out-DPS a staff of battle from 20-50ish?

Cippofra
01-04-2013, 09:25 PM
Do reasonably affordable one handers really out-DPS a staff of battle from 20-50ish?

Some people seem to believe fast hitting weapons increase aggro. This is some kind of silly myth imo. Without procs, hate is related only to damage and not to weapon speed at all. This is just my opinion of course. Flame suit on.

Taffan
01-05-2013, 03:52 AM
Some people seem to believe fast hitting weapons increase aggro. This is some kind of silly myth imo. Without procs, hate is related only to damage and not to weapon speed at all. This is just my opinion of course. Flame suit on.

The problem is, that with 2h weps, or even just slower weps, you have a lot bigger gap between hits, which means that if you miss 3 times in a row, a monk/rogue can get like 10 hits off and you will never get aggro back... unless you crit or something. So, people favor faster, good damage, 1hander over a medium speed/slow 2hander. At least, until you can get your skill up to a point where you have a lot lower miss rate.

Tecmos Deception
01-05-2013, 05:33 PM
Lord knows I won't be able to find the posts, but I quite clearly remember reading on these forums, from reliable sources, a couple of months ago, that aggro comes from potential damage. AKA if aggro per second is based (there is a formula to it, it isn't a 1:1 thing) off of the DPS a person would do if he hit with every swing he takes and every one of those hits was for the maximum potential damage.

So slow vs. fast doesn't mean anything, apart from the formula having some bias in favor of faster weapons because it overvalues damage bonus damage compared to the rest of the potential damage from a swing, because swings generate aggro, whether they are hits or misses, and the amount generated is based on the potential maximum damage per swing.

You could potentially have aggro spikes and lulls still, but it would be based on bad luck with the double attack RNG, not with hit/miss.

Tecmos Deception
01-05-2013, 05:38 PM
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39361

This wasn't the discussion I remember from a few months ago, though.



Ah ha! Found it, just had to look through my post history for a few minutes. Rogean says aggro is based on damage potential (well actually he says on "swings," but whatever) http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=586722#post586722

Taffan
01-06-2013, 03:54 AM
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39361

This wasn't the discussion I remember from a few months ago, though.



Ah ha! Found it, just had to look through my post history for a few minutes. Rogean says aggro is based on damage potential (well actually he says on "swings," but whatever) http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=586722#post586722

So, even if you swing with a slow 2hander, and miss, but a DPS lands 4 dual wield hits before your next 2h swing, you still have the potential to hold aggro? That doesn't seems accurate.

Splorf22
01-06-2013, 11:03 AM
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=88535

This is why 2H sucks on this server.

Tecmos Deception
01-06-2013, 12:50 PM
Loraen is so awesome.

I love reading about this stuff.