Reiker commits suicide.

[Hasbinlulz]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-hostess-brands-seeks-court-permission-to-liquidate-20121116,0,3175964.story

[hatelore]

I love how the union president tries to blame it all on the hostess management. Yeah, try explaining that to the 18k employees who now have no job because of fucked up union nonsense. Fuck unions.

[Autotune]

YAY UNIONS!!!!!!!

[Diggles]

YAY UNIONS!!!!!!!

[Lexical]

What I don't get is if most of the companies employees accepted the pay cut and thus did not support the strike and the ones that did strike were simple bakers, why not hire some temporary bakers during the strike? I don't think Hostess if it was doing as well as the owner's said it was doing wouldn't need to cut everyone's paycheck by 8% nor would it be so crippled by an easily replaceable workforce.

Honestly, I can't think of anyone I know personally who buys Hostess products regularly. They were a failing company and the union (which I looked into, and they are only 100,000 strong and span like 8 other industries so the likely hood of there being more than a couple hundred workers in that strike is unlikely) is being made out to be a scapegoat.

[Tarathiel]

isnt this old news? all of the hostess stores and factories have been closing down in my area for at least the past year if not longer

[Sodapop]

what I don't get is why hasnt he paid me.

[Lexical]

No Tarathiel, this is the work of the unions. That is why the ever so prosperous company that is Hostess is going under.

[Black Jesus]

Unions are communist organizations, and like communism they cause societal collapse.

[Diggles]

i hate this fuckin communist country im moving to china

[Bubbles]

I can't believe i might be telling my kids someday about 'what a twinkie was'...

we're all gonna end up like Woody Harrelson in Zombieland... roaming the countryside, shotgun in hand, looking to find the Twinkie Van Shipment needle in the zombieapocalypse haystack..

so sad =(

[Alawen]

It's hard for me to figure out who is being sarcastic and who is actually stupid.

Except for Hatelore.

[Hitchens]

Tasty Kakes is a union shop and is doing just fine.

I personally think unions have probably outlived their usefulness, but blaming them for Hostess' failures just isn't very accurate. Hostess is a dinosaur in the snack food industry, and with more competition and Americans becoming more health conscious, it was inevitable due to the way Hostess had chosen to operate its business.

[Bamzal Sherbet]

Of all countries, the United States has the highest rate of obesity. From 13% obesity in 1962, estimates have steadily increased, reaching 19.4% in 1997, 24.5% in 2004. 26.6% in 2007, and 33.8% (adults) and 17% (children) in 2008.

Sounds to me like hostess should have been set for a while

[hatelore]

It's hard for me to figure out who is being sarcastic and who is actually stupid.

Except for Hatelore.

Gee thanks. The plants were operating at 50% or below capacity. Out of 18k workers that is a lot more then 100 or 200 workers striking. And for the chap who said why not just refill these easely replaceable positions, you do realize it takes more then just bakers to run these plants or distribute the products right? We are talking about machinests,mechanics,engineers,maintenance ,supervisors, management positions, drivers , i can go on but you get my point...

I have read up on this and I realize it isn't just the unions fault, but at the end of the day 18k are out of work over a long drawn out strike, that's the bottom line. Yeah it sucks to take a pay cut, but sometimes companies have to restructure and bite the bullet when things go south, that's called life.

[Hitchens]

I have read up on this and I realize it isn't just the unions fault, but at the end of the day 18k are out of work over a long drawn out strike, that's the bottom line. Yeah it sucks to take a pay cut, but sometimes companies have to restructure and bite the bullet when things go south, that's called life.

18k are not out of work over a long drawn out strike. You can't say that you realize it isn't just the unions fault and then immediately follow it up with laying the blame at the feet of a strike.

Well, I guess you can say that, but it doesn't make much sense.

[hatelore]

If the people aren't at work, how do you expect the plants to operate? If the drivers aren't driving how do you expect the product to reach the stores? If the maintenance crews aren't repairing the machinery and maintaining them... You get my point. Yeah it was a combination of bad business decisions etc, but at the end of the day if the people aren't at work, how does the company operate?

There's a thing called compromise, the union leader should have done just that. The way it is now, no one wins. Not the company or the union.

[Hitchens]

One would have to accept the premise that new management wanted the company to operate in the same capacity it did when those workers were there.

I'm genuinely not convinced this is the case.

[hatelore]

And I meant the past business decisions and bankruptcy were the companies fault, not the unions. The pay cut and such were part of a restructuring plan to try to keep the business running. The workers didn't want the paycut and on top of that they wanted a better pension deal. Now they will get nothing, but an unemployment check.

[Hitchens]

Again, I'm not sure the restructuring plan was to try and keep the business running.

And your point about the unions refusing to compromise just isn't true. The unions had negotiated and accepted cuts. Unfortunately management then wanted to eliminate benefits and retirement while Ripplewood cleaned up.

Feels weird defending unions, but I've felt weirder.

[hatelore]

Unions made sense back when labor laws and worker safety were not considered important to companies. Nowadays, unions usually do more harm then good.

[Hitchens]

I tend to agree that unions have out-lived their usefulness, but I don't work in a union industry so maybe I'm wrong about that. It's easy to form an opinion when it doesn't involve me.

But either way, you are just not correct in your understanding of the Hostess situation.

[hatelore]

Not saying you are lying, but can you link that please? I didn't read in any news article where they wanted to eliminate there retirement completely. If so, on that note I do agree that's messed up.

[Hitchens]

In trying to shed costs, Hostess is gunning for what are known as MEPPs -- multi-employer pension plans -- which it is required to participate in under its labor agreements with the unions.

MEPPs, which grew in popularity back in the union glory days of the 1950s and '60s, were designed for companies within an industry to share pension burdens. There are nearly 1,500 MEPPs in the country, covering more than 10 million workers. These mammoth defined-benefit plans -- employers, not workers, make the contributions -- were especially attractive to unions, as they allowed workers to move easily between companies.

Trouble with MEPPs is, if some employers go out of business, the remaining companies have to pick up the shortfall in funding benefits. When there are too few employers left standing, the fund is in trouble. According to a March research report by Credit Suisse, MEPPs are now underfunded by $369 billion. A third of the 40 MEPPs to which Hostess contributes are among the most underfunded plans in the country.

At the bargaining table, week after week, Hostess and the Teamsters have gone at it over the MEPPs, which Hostess contends are at the heart of its woes. Perella Weinberg's Michael Kramer has squared up against Harry Wilson, the financial adviser retained by the Teamsters. Monarch's Herenstein has been there. So has a representative from Silver Point. Though all are cordial -- somebody once served Hostess snacks -- they've yet to achieve a middle ground.

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/

[hatelore]

I read that article, thanks for the link.

Yup, I have to swallow my pride and say on that note you are right. The articles I had read said nothing about that, clearly the unions aren't the only ones at fault. I wish news nowadays weren't so biased and could just present the facts.

[Hasbinlulz]

unions have out-lived their usefulness
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Unions were a good model of organization, but industry has drastically changed, and union structures have failed to keep pace. Labor needs to be organized IMHO to protect workers from bosses, but although individual union employees may see better terms some of the time, the current model of unions are not good for anyone in the long run and from the societal perspective - except the unions themselves.

[Kassel]

Any company that goes through 7 ceo's in 10 years is going to have systematic problems to start with, add in union issues and this is what you get. They all failed, it happens. I am sure someone will by the rights to the twinky in the fire sale, open up a non union shop and you will be able to get your fix.

[jjgerman]

hostess made horrible toxic waste, and packaged it as food. They should have been put out of business back in the 50s.

Here is the thing about the union/business relationship. If it requires slave labor, its not a business. Unions are there to remind people of that.

There are a few unions that go overboard like the teachers unions, but they are not all the same. Some unions do help preserve American jobs.


IF a company could pay you less. They would. Already been proven with outsourcing, everything that can be outsourced, has been.
IF a company doesnt want to share its profits, with its worker bees. BURN IT DOWN

Pay a living wage, or go bankrupt.

[Reiker000]

But either way, you are just not correct in your understanding of the Hostess situation.

This is hatelore, he is not correct in his understanding of any situation.