Possible to play a non-twinked warrior?

[dscar23]

Hi everyone, from what I'm reading around the forums, it seems that a warrior will have a hard time holding agro unless he is twinked or has proccing weapons. seeing as I just started playing here recently, I don't have much (and not subliminally asking for things) so I was wondering if I'm going to struggle to keep aggro to the point of being a burden/not getting groups b/c of shitty gear.

Any input would be appreciated, would like to play the warrior but if I had to consider a knight I would. Thanks again.

[kaev]

Tbh, twinking is so over the top here that, unless you have a premade group with friends who're also starting from scratch, any melee or hybrid (except bard) is really hurting in comparison to most other characters you'll encounter. Even a twinked warrior has trouble with agro. :(

[dscar23]

So im basically shit outta luck? I was gun-ho on a warrior, but if not having adequate weaponry is going to end up just pissing me off, guess I'll try a different class. Should I be avoiding tanks altogether if im not twinking??

[Nogdar]

Well, pallys and especially SKs have absolutely no aggro problem on the other hand, even if not twinked. You'll be taking hard hits but it's doable if you have worthy friends to play with. SKs can also solo somewhat decently with fearkite, so you won't take hits if doing that. If you want to play a tank, go for it. And if it must be a warrior, go for it. Being a little subpar isn't as important as playing something you want to play.

[Heavydrop]

You'll get there, keep at it.
Play what you want to play.

[Estu]

You can get cheap proccing weapons on a non-twinked warrior if you're smart with your plat and take a little time out to farm PP (bone chips, spiderling silks, HQ bear skins) and research the right proc weapons and their prices. If you're grouped with some twinked monk or rogue obviously that won't be good enough for you to hold aggro, but you're not at fault for that so you shouldn't worry about it.

[kaev]

You can get cheap proccing weapons on a non-twinked warrior if you're smart with your plat and take a little time out to farm PP (bone chips, spiderling silks, HQ bear skins) and research the right proc weapons and their prices. If you're grouped with some twinked monk or rogue obviously that won't be good enough for you to hold aggro, but you're not at fault for that so you shouldn't worry about it.

DD procs are worth very little for agro. You need stun or snare or dot+debuff, and the only one of those that comes to mind that procs below L37-ish is such a poor ratio (Whip of Strangulation 6/24, procs Choke at L10) that you still have crap agro due to low melee threat.

It's true that a low-budget SK can get a lot of mileage out of Disease Cloud and the low level snare/dot. He still needs good armor and a weapon that generates decent melee threat, and Shadowknights are popular enough here that good gear is somewhat expensive.

As for Paladin, I strongly suspect that over-reliance on Flash of Light is why Paladins have such a terrible rep as crap tanks on this server. Flash of Light isn't one-tenth as good a spell as many people make it out to be. It has very little intrinsic agro, so when it doesn't stick or wears off it has nearly zero effect, plus there are some very wierd interactions with the pathing code here when it does stick. FoL is basicly a group wipe begging to happen, and yet this server is chock full of people who think "Paladin is easy, just chain FoL". Want to play a Paladin well? Delete FoL frmo your spellbook and learn to play your class. Paladin doesn't have two stuns to rotate until L49, so effective use of Root is crucial, yet I have seen very few Paladins making use of Root for agro control. The main plus for Paladins here is that they are so unpopular that Paladin-specific gear is pretty reasonably priced.

At any rate, without strong gear any tank in EQ is weak. Warrior, Shadowknight, & Paladin are by far the three most gear-dependant classes in classic EQ due to their primary role as damage soaks, with Warrior heading that list because they have such poor intrinsic agro. Relative to other classes, you need good weapons, item haste, and excellent armor to do your job well. It's tough to obtain those playing a tank up from scratch (good friends & supportive guild do make it possible tho.)

[dscar23]

Ended up rolling a warrior and got him to 5. Lo and behold, some nice ogre sk in inny swamp (cant remember his name) hooked me up with a kunzar k-something. Been doing some work with that and it has an engulfing darkness proc so i assume that will be useful for agro whenever it procs (not sure the level, if anyone can clarify?)

Really liked all a Sk brings to the table,but, end of the day, the xp penalty might just be too much for me to deal with (HAVE to be a Troll haha).

Anyways thanks for the responses and if anyone has a low level alt they would like to level up with me, look me up in game on Vado. Currently level 7.

[kaev]

I believe that the kunzar ku'juch procs at L40, and yeah that's an ok agro proc. Good luck!

[Zehv9]

DD procs are worth very little for agro. You need stun or snare or dot+debuff, and the only one of those that comes to mind that procs below L37-ish is such a poor ratio (Whip of Strangulation 6/24, procs Choke at L10) that you still have crap agro due to low melee threat.

It's true that a low-budget SK can get a lot of mileage out of Disease Cloud and the low level snare/dot. He still needs good armor and a weapon that generates decent melee threat, and Shadowknights are popular enough here that good gear is somewhat expensive.

As for Paladin, I strongly suspect that over-reliance on Flash of Light is why Paladins have such a terrible rep as crap tanks on this server. Flash of Light isn't one-tenth as good a spell as many people make it out to be. It has very little intrinsic agro, so when it doesn't stick or wears off it has nearly zero effect, plus there are some very wierd interactions with the pathing code here when it does stick. FoL is basicly a group wipe begging to happen, and yet this server is chock full of people who think "Paladin is easy, just chain FoL". Want to play a Paladin well? Delete FoL frmo your spellbook and learn to play your class. Paladin doesn't have two stuns to rotate until L49, so effective use of Root is crucial, yet I have seen very few Paladins making use of Root for agro control. The main plus for Paladins here is that they are so unpopular that Paladin-specific gear is pretty reasonably priced.

At any rate, without strong gear any tank in EQ is weak. Warrior, Shadowknight, & Paladin are by far the three most gear-dependant classes in classic EQ due to their primary role as damage soaks, with Warrior heading that list because they have such poor intrinsic agro. Relative to other classes, you need good weapons, item haste, and excellent armor to do your job well. It's tough to obtain those playing a tank up from scratch (good friends & supportive guild do make it possible tho.)

Hey there. I'm a new player on this server and I went Paladin. I did this because on the server chat boards, other new players were asking about other guys starting out, and nobody was talking about tanks. So I made a paladin.

I went into it having no idea how generating threat was supposed to be done, and I couldn't find any information about it. A player told me to do just as you said, use Flash of Light. I've been doing that for a while, and it works just as you say. I easily get aggro if it lands, but easily lose it if it wears off. If the target is low on health and flees, it warps all over the place and nobody can hit it until it wears off. It is indeed trouble waiting to happen.

I was worried that Root would behave the same way, except for the flee problem. Does it actually generate threat that stays with you even if the effect goes off?

[kaev]

Root has some agro, not a lot but more than FoL. More importantly, it:
1. doesn't have the warp issue,
2. doesn't get the wild pathing weirdness where engaged blinded mobs will sometimes just take off (very nasty if mob is SoWed),
3. can be used as crowd-control (root parking mobs away from people.)

Root is occasionally useful in groups that have better regen than direct healing (say with druid or shaman plus bard) and multiple characters capable of tanking to spread the damage around (rooted mob will pretty much always attack that nearest player in melee range that is on its hate list.)

When grouped with a warrior you can root a mob to make it easier for the warrior to hold agro, leaving you free to root park adds or whatever as necessary.

One thing to always keep in mind with Root is that anytime the rooted mob is dd'd (by spell or proc) it gets an extra chance to break the root that is modified by the amount of damage done.

Something to avoid (usually) is rooting a snared mob because that will overwrite the snare (happens with druid/ranger and necro/sk and bard snares.) Generally, when grouped with a snaring class, I avoid rooting mobs that are at or under half health and I always watch for "such-and-so is snared" messages from groupmates.

[Raavak]

I went into it having no idea how generating threat was supposed to be done, and I couldn't find any information about it. A player told me to do just as you said, use Flash of Light.
Years ago pallys used to talk about using stuns for aggro. Is that still true or is that further down the timeline?

[kaev]

Stuns are fantastic agro. Unfortunately, Paladin has to wait until L30 for first Stun, L49 for second, L52 for third, and the latter two both do damage also.

On live, Luclin made Paladin stunning for agro trivial by adding a pair of low level, fast casting, low mana cost, zero damage, stuns (Cease & Desist). IMO it was an overboost that took too much of the thought & tactics out of playing the class, but it was quite an improvement in viability for sub-49 Paladin as a group tank.

[Zehv9]

Sounds like I just gotta keep truckin to 30.

[theaetatus]

My experience of FoL on this server is vastly different.. It's great aggro if it's resisted, the aggro stays after it has worn off and running mobs just run normally. The only time I've had trouble with it is on the few times I've cast it on an incoming mob a little too early.

[Zehv9]

My experience of FoL on this server is vastly different.. It's great aggro if it's resisted, the aggro stays after it has worn off and running mobs just run normally. The only time I've had trouble with it is on the few times I've cast it on an incoming mob a little too early.

That's strange, I am sure that a fleeing mob that I have the flash of light effect on have that eratic movement pattern. I know that's how it appears to my group mates as well, for they're frantically chasing after it in confusion just like I am. EDIT: Now that's not happening. WHATEVS


I have noticed that when the spell is resisted, I tend to gain a lot of aggro as well. Does the chance for this spell to get resisted go up as you fight higher level creatures? I suspect that unless resistances are a factor, it's just a matter of the target level compared to your characters' level.

The root thing is interesting though, I didn't know it just attacks whatever is closest while rooted. Lets me have a bit of control over spreading damage around if that needs to happen.