prop 37 in Cali

[dredge]

It doesn't look like prop 37 will pass in Cali. So confusing, why would anyone not vote to know what's in the food they're eating? Special interests and big corporations have you all so brainwashed it's pathetic. It's like: "I'm voting to keep the mystery meat a mystery, I don't want to know what I'm feeding my children" derp

Seriously, I would like to know how anyone could be against food labeling laws.
This prop was so important because if it passed in Cali in would have effected all of us in the states sooner then later.

Fuck, I'm disappointed in the human race.

[Black Jesus]

yep

[dredge]

btw these laws are in effect in a ton of different countries, like Russia, Europe.. etc.....

but here in America you don't have the right to know what's in your food. Sad

[dredge]

It doesn't look like prop 37 will pass in Cali. So confusing, why would anyone not vote to know what's in the food they're eating? Special interests and big corporations have you all so brainwashed it's pathetic. It's like: "I'm voting to keep the mystery meat a mystery, I don't want to know what I'm feeding my children" derp

Seriously, I would like to know how anyone could be against food labeling laws.
This prop was so important because if it passed in Cali in would have effected all of us in the states sooner than later.

Fuck, I'm disappointed in the human race.

[dredge]

^sorry thought I was editing

[Black Jesus]

yea, it's like they make GMO corn that has its own pesticides in it so they don't have to spray it... either way you're still eating pesticides but these are not natural your body doesn't know what the fuck to do with it.

[dredge]

yea, it's like they make GMO corn that has its own pesticides in it so they don't have to spray it... either way you're still eating pesticides but these are not natural your body doesn't know what the fuck to do with it.

very true but even if it was just regular old corn why wouldn't you want the right to know it's in your food, see how easy it is to get twisted away from the basic point?

[dredge]

enjoy eating round-up dumb asses

[HeallunRumblebelly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frvg9hfJYBo

I don't wanna knooowwww~

[Hasbinlulz]

You guys are righteous on general principle but have no idea what you're talking about. :)

[Tecmos Deception]

Special interests and big corporations

And here I thought I wouldn't have to listen to any more political rhetoric bullshit propoganda ads for a couple of years.

Wtf dredge? You got fucking brainwashed by political ads so now even after the election you feel the need to carry on the "special interests hate me so you should vote for me!" torch into the future?

Fuck you and your shit.

[dredge]

And here I thought I wouldn't have to listen to any more political rhetoric bullshit propoganda ads for a couple of years.

Wtf dredge? You got fucking brainwashed by political ads so now even after the election you feel the need to carry on the "special interests hate me so you should vote for me!" torch into the future?

Fuck you and your shit.

you know what Mr. Tranny tucked Dick Deception,
FUCK YOU!!

You mother fuckers are the ones that don't know what the hell your talking about.

Name 1 reason why the public should know whats in the food they consume or serve to their children.
ASSHOLE

[dredge]

^Name 1 reason why the public should know whats in the food they consume or serve to their children.

-FUCK YOU and your transgender Bull Shit, Dick Head

[dredge]

FUCK


should'NT

[dredge]

Occupy Monsanto
Folks, prop 37 was defeated by the chemical/genetically engineered food industry as a result of their massive campaign to misinform California voters about the measure. These companies know their business model (which they revere above all else) is on the line, and will hold no punches to keep it growing.
We, the people need to stand up for ourselves and each other, not just at the voting booth every couple of years, but in our every day lives. Please feel free to download sticker templates here www.labelityourself.org/liy and print them out, so the next time you head to your grocery store, you can help let people know what's in their food. Anything not organic that contains soy, corn, sugar (most sugar comes from GE sugar beets), canola or cottonseed is highly likely to contain GMOs and should be labeled.
It's time to take our food supply back! #LabelitYourself

http://labelityourself.org/liy/

[quido]

Is someone trying to change your constitution?

[dredge]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61485_10151081964891316_1242773682_n.jpg

[Orruar]

Jesus people, the government isn't the only way to change this. Quit being such a fucking sheep. You can form an advocacy group to boycott any products that refuse to voluntarily label their foods. You can simply choose to individually boycott these products and encourage others. There are many levels of involvement and work you can put in to help make this come about.

People just want to be lazy and have daddy government do all the work. The problem with that approach is that it ends up costing more overall, as you're not only paying for new government workers to enforce the new law, but you're also paying higher prices on all products which now have to conform with the law. And you know the biggest companies would get around the law somehow anyway.

Quit being lazy. If you really care about this issue, then take your own steps to solve it. Don't expect government to solve it for you. The recent hurricane on the east coast serves as a great example. People who expect government help in the aftermath are typically the worst off. Those who take responsibility for themselves and their neighbors are the ones who are doing just fine.

[Raavak]

Buy genetically unaltered seeds. Grow your own food. Only thing you can do. This stuff is only going to get worse likely until they accidentally release a genetic time bomb that kills us all.

[dredge]

Jesus people, the government isn't the only way to change this. Quit being such a fucking sheep. You can form an advocacy group to boycott any products that refuse to voluntarily label their foods. You can simply choose to individually boycott these products and encourage others. There are many levels of involvement and work you can put in to help make this come about.

People just want to be lazy and have daddy government do all the work. The problem with that approach is that it ends up costing more overall, as you're not only paying for new government workers to enforce the new law, but you're also paying higher prices on all products which now have to conform with the law. And you know the biggest companies would get around the law somehow anyway.

Quit being lazy. If you really care about this issue, then take your own steps to solve it. Don't expect government to solve it for you. The recent hurricane on the east coast serves as a great example. People who expect government help in the aftermath are typically the worst off. Those who take responsibility for themselves and their neighbors are the ones who are doing just fine.

ok so what your saying is don't ever let your children eat at a restaurant or the school cafeteria etc.... gmo's are in 90% of all the food in the market.

Labels and the resulting outrage are the only way Kelloggs is going to stop using gmo corn in their cornflakes, mcdonalds to stop feeding its cattle gmo corn, wonder bread stop using gmo flour....... etc.......etc.......

We shouldn't have to live in a bubble and grow our own food just so some bullshit chemical warfare company can continue to control our food supply

[dredge]

Buy genetically unaltered seeds. Grow your own food. Only thing you can do. This stuff is only going to get worse likely until they accidentally release a genetic time bomb that kills us all.

yeah that makes a lot more sense then passing a label law

[Orruar]

ok so what your saying is don't ever let your children eat at a restaurant or the school cafeteria etc.... gmo's are in 90% of all the food in the market.

Labels and the resulting outrage are the only way Kelloggs is going to stop using gmo corn in their cornflakes, mcdonalds to stop feeding its cattle gmo corn, wonder bread stop using gmo flour....... etc.......etc.......

We shouldn't have to live in a bubble and grow our own food just so some bullshit chemical warfare company can continue to control our food supply

Under the theory of democracy, laws are only passed when a majority of people believe it is a good idea. If the majority of people dislike GMO foods, and they actually put their money where their mouth is, their collective action will have long ago changed the habits of the food producers. Use the profit motive to force companies to make the change. It's far more effective than trying to use the government. Laws are easily avoided. They can't put a gun to anyone's head and force them to buy their product. Seriously, quit being such a fucking sheep. 95% of Americans have been convinced that government is the only way to solve their problems. It's pathetic.

[dredge]

Under the theory of democracy, laws are only passed when a majority of people believe it is a good idea. If the majority of people dislike GMO foods, and they actually put their money where their mouth is, their collective action will have long ago changed the habits of the food producers. Use the profit motive to force companies to make the change. It's far more effective than trying to use the government. Laws are easily avoided. They can't put a gun to anyone's head and force them to buy their product. Seriously, quit being such a fucking sheep. 95% of Americans have been convinced that government is the only way to solve their problems. It's pathetic.

Your right I'm just being lazy.
I'm writing the 30 different products that are in my lunch now to see if their research and development divisions can shed some light on if fucking GMO poison is in any of it.

That's what everyone should do when they eat something they didn't grow from heirloom seed stock right?

This makes way more sense then wanting a law

[dredge]

wonderful, this is the result so far:

As of right now the FDA has no definition of GMO ingredients. Thus without no definition there is no foundation for me to construct an answer. I can say there may be and may not be, but until we have something to stand on, it is very hard to answer this question. All the FDA has acknowledged is that they have accepted the genetic modification of about 40 different plants for various reasons. I am not trying to cloud the issue, but until we have a complete understanding and a very specific definition and guidelines, I really do not have an answer.

Thanks

[dredge]

^so your shit out of luck

[Orruar]

Yeah, I'm going to come home from work and spend 3 hours doing a research project on the content of my food.

If you ever want a peek into the mind-boggingly retarded brain of a Libertartarian, read a full Orruar or Hailto post.

Except that two posts ago, you claimed to have not read the entire post. Do try and at least pretend to have consistent and logical thought flowing through what you call a brain.

[Orruar]

Your right I'm just being lazy.
I'm writing the 30 different products that are in my lunch now to see if their research and development divisions can shed some light on if fucking GMO poison is in any of it.

That's what everyone should do when they eat something they didn't grow from heirloom seed stock right?

This makes way more sense then wanting a law

You are posting on a message board on the internet. Certainly this means you have heard of something called Google. If GMO is such a huge problem, certainly there has been quite a lot written on the subject and obtaining the information you seek will not be difficult.

[Orruar]

Quo

[Cypher.]

Out of curiosity, what's your science/technical background dredge?

[dredge]

Out of curiosity, what's your science/technical background dredge?

I'm just a guy who has an interest in nutrition. I was a professional Chef for many years. I managed a High School Cafeteria. I traveled to Mongolia as a consultant and Chef instructor, where I opened a upscale Western Restaurant and trained the staff of about 12 restaurants. etc....

I'm currently an IT student studying Information Assurance/ Network Security at a local tech college.

I don't have to be a scientist to care about what is in our food or what my family eats, and I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that there is a correlation between GMO and rising health issues like cancer and allergies.

So I chose to get informed on the issue,

[Zereh]

So I chose to get informed on the issue,

So should everyone. Educate yourselves. And don't be fooled into thinking the government in any way, shape or form has the average food consumer's best interests at heart.

******** width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rixyrCNVVGA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Zereh]

grrr Can't imbed: TED ~ Robyn O'Brien (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA)

[dredge]

great video here:

http://youtu.be/TB5EBFUwaw0

and here is what the ad campaign looked like, too bad, Cali voted to not know, mind boggling really

http://youtu.be/RB1xHFwSYIg

[dredge]

and this is just the tip of the iceberg, this poison is in practically everything here in the states:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/46045_386345454774076_1038031309_n.png

then you got to worry about what the animals were feed that your consuming, the milk, etc...

I started researching and corresponding with a bunch of dog food companies in my quest to get my pup a non GMO food and I eventually had to buy a premo kibble made in Canada to escape GMO's. The dog food is made by Champion / Acana/ Orijen if anyone is wondering.

[dredge]

and you can't just google it, like the one company that I corresponded with explained to me, sense the FDA won't define what a GMO is here in the states they don't know or won't tell.

look at these so called health food companies that are against it because they use GMO's

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558723_369044279837527_1561169785_n.jpg

Kashi, Silk, Gardenburger, Naked.... these co's are poisoning us under the guise of being health conscience

[dredge]

good luck shopping on your own, without labels your pretty much screwed

[Lexical]

I would be willing to compromise and instead of putting things like corn or soy, companies that use GMOs have to put "corn" and "soy." i.e. with quotes around them.

[Orruar]

and you can't just google it, like the one company that I corresponded with explained to me, sense the FDA won't define what a GMO is here in the states they don't know or won't tell.

look at these so called health food companies that are against it because they use GMO's

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558723_369044279837527_1561169785_n.jpg

Kashi, Silk, Gardenburger, Naked.... these co's are poisoning us under the guise of being health conscience

So why not use this image as a starting point on which companies to boycott and which to support? Seriously, if GMO is a big deal, enough people will hit the companies where it matters: the bottom line. If business sees that it is more profitable to avoid GMO in their products, they will act accordingly.

Here's a free million dollar idea for you. Start a company that comes up with a GMO-free label. Require food producers to prove to you that their food is GMO free before putting that label on their food. If people truly care about GMO, they will seek out this label on foods they buy.

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that there is a correlation between GMO and rising health issues like cancer and allergies.

Perhaps not to show correlation. But to show causation is a different beast altogether. We live in a horribly complex world, and it would be a difficult task to show what you believe. Make no mistake about it, your hatred of GMO is based on belief, not on fact. There's nothing wrong with that, but you have to understand it and you have to understand that pushing your beliefs upon people makes you no better than the bible thumpers who would love to outlaw premarital sex if they could.

[Orruar]

I'm currently an IT student studying Information Assurance/ Network Security at a local tech college.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcL4LyBkBOA

Watch all 5 junior college montages

[Black Jesus]

If you can even do the research project, it's not like the companies are going to willingly give up the information.

[Orruar]

Except being completely informed on every single purchasing decision is a full-time job. I know in your fantasy Libertard world, every person is willing to come home from work and do a 5 hour research project on every consumption decision they'll make. But some of us work for a living, and not smoke pot all day and plagiarize Milton Friedman articles on Everquest forums like you.

And I laid out an idea of how the free market could solve the problem using labeling, but you probably ignored that part due to inability to comprehend the sheer genius of it.

We live in the information age. The pro-government argument regarding difficulty of obtaining information is becoming more and more ludicrous. Get with the 21st century. In order to get the proposition passed, you needed half of California to agree. That's 20 million people, roughly. If it takes 100 man hours to determine if a single product is GMO, and you could only convince 5% of those who would vote on such a thing to put in a single hour of research, then you could correctly classify 10,000 products. Or we could pass a law that will probably cost tens of millions each year to implement and maintain. Do you not see the sheer absurdity of such a program?

[Orruar]

Yep. Not like advertising and outright fraud make it close to impossible for consumers to choose products and services with perfect wisdom. Lying to consumers always works.

Fraud is illegal. Don't need new laws to stop it.

[Hasbinlulz]

Fucking patriots. Sigh.

[dredge]

And I laid out an idea of how the free market could solve the problem using labeling, but you probably ignored that part due to inability to comprehend the sheer genius of it.

We live in the information age. The pro-government argument regarding difficulty of obtaining information is becoming more and more ludicrous. Get with the 21st century. In order to get the proposition passed, you needed half of California to agree. That's 20 million people, roughly. If it takes 100 man hours to determine if a single product is GMO, and you could only convince 5% of those who would vote on such a thing to put in a single hour of research, then you could correctly classify 10,000 products. Or we could pass a law that will probably cost tens of millions each year to implement and maintain. Do you not see the sheer absurdity of such a program?

they already have that and it's really expensive and hard to get certified because there inst a clear definition of what a gmo is on the books
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/561804_10151146238498515_943249946_n.jpg

[Clark]

Glad I shop at Trader Joes, and follow the SCD Diet. Don't have to worry about getting unhealthy nutrition or food that has been tampered with/chemically changed. I feel bad for the mainstream folks who eat a lot of the crap the corporate markets produce.

[Reiker000]

It doesn't look like prop 37 will pass in Cali. So confusing, why would anyone not vote to know what's in the food they're eating? Special interests and big corporations have you all so brainwashed it's pathetic. It's like: "I'm voting to keep the mystery meat a mystery, I don't want to know what I'm feeding my children" derp

Seriously, I would like to know how anyone could be against food labeling laws.
This prop was so important because if it passed in Cali in would have effected all of us in the states sooner then later.

Fuck, I'm disappointed in the human race.

I didn't read the thread, but the idea behind the proposition is OK but the proposition itself is fucking stupid. I would have voted no too.

[Reiker000]

It means chemicals that were synthesized using natural products -- but still chemicals none the less.

everything is "chemicals" if you want to be pedantic.

[Reiker000]

Why would you have voted no?

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

First of all, there's zero scientific proof that genetically modified food is harmful. I wouldn't want to have to pay based on someone's hunch. Do the scientific research and then come @ me. Also, GM food has largely contributed to fighting hunger and vitamin deficiencies in third world countries.

The biggest problem is that it puts all of the burden on retailers and none on the actual manufacturers. It's a fucking nightmare for retailers, especially small businesses. It doesn't even outline what exactly needs to be labeled, which means you pretty much need to label everything and then nothing really matters. The whole thing is very wishy washy, doesn't affect restaurants, does affect small businesses and large retailers benefit from a new burden on their smaller competition. The whole thing is just horribly written. Pay more $$$ because of the misinformed soccer mom whose afraid of big words? No thanks.

[doraf]

More useless state jobs are created anytime a new law is passed in this state. I'm all for jobs, but we don't need to spend money making sure people are aware of what they should be already and if they aren't, then they most likely don't care anyway. Example: If people didn't care about weighing 300 pounds and looking like fat greasy sloths, then they would stop ordering supersized meals at Mc Donald’s.

My family has a 55 acre organic orchard and ranch in Santa Barbara County. It's a freakin joke, a waste of money and time. Prop 37 was pushed by farmers who can not compete in the industry and never will with their miniature apples and pears. Know why our produce is organic? Because we care about the water it is sitting above more than the fruit on the trees or the grapes on the vines. Anyone who expects to get rich as an organic farmer is an idiot. The farming industry in California is way bigger than your little pea brain can imagine and fucking it over for a stupid label is a horrible idea.

[dredge]

The problem with scientific evidence is its hard to get these studies done when monsanto controls everything and bullies and threatens any scientist that disagrees with them.

The first study on rats that followed them for their whole life cycle showed like 85% cancer, increased aggression, infertility and severe allergies.

[Black Jesus]

First of all, there's zero scientific proof that genetically modified food is harmful. I wouldn't want to have to pay based on someone's hunch. Do the scientific research and then come @ me..

Stopped reading here because you obviously haven't.

[dredge]

Secondly it has been proven that gmos have done nothing for for fighting world hunger and famine.
You have been misinformed and played.

[dredge]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c0.15.403.403/p403x403/599361_349517118456910_150433374_n.jpg

watch the movie and come back with an argument, you cant:
http://vimeo.com/6575475

[Black Jesus]

Here you go Reiker.

A new paper reviewing data from 19 animal studies shows that consuming genetically modified (GM) corn or soybeans leads to significant organ disruptions in rats and mice, particularly in livers and kidneys. “Other organs may be affected too, such as the heart and spleen, or blood cells,” stated the paper. In fact some of the animals fed genetically modified organisms had altered body weights, which is “a very good predictor of side effects in various organs.”

Link to scientific journal: http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/10

[Black Jesus]

1 of 9000 studies btw

[Orruar]

That's funny.

I juts saw a Kellog's Cornflakes commercial -- the entire commercial took place in a sprawling cornfield, and I was told repeatedly that I should buy THEIR cereal products because they're "all natural!"

Many people are unaware, for example, that when something says "natural flavors" on the label, it still means chemicals. It means chemicals that were synthesized using natural products -- but still chemicals none the less. An EXTREMELY misleading way to advertise, and I'm sure the guy who came up with the scam was payed quite a bit of money.

Well, technically, everything you eat is a part of nature, since nature encompasses everything in this universe. Want some all natural plutonium to go with your oil flakes?

[Hasbinlulz]

The most organic hippie kale grown in grassfed kitten shit in the world is still full of chemicals. ;)

[Black Jesus]

Yea but then the cell structures at least resemble something digestible. Keep in mind digestion is one of the most straining thing your body does, which is why intermittent fasting makes you live longer.

[Orruar]

Secondly it has been proven that gmos have done nothing for for fighting world hunger and famine.
You have been misinformed and played.

Seems like a difficult thing to prove. Do you understand what prove means? Do you understand the scientific method?

[dredge]

^ fine nitpick, not proven, but that argument is straight out of the Monsanto guide book of bullshit

[dredge]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/403315_398559573546539_1640808980_n.png

right here guy:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/gmo-food_b_914968.html

[Orruar]

^ fine nitpick, not proven, but that argument is straight out of the Monsanto guide book of bullshit

If the Monsanto guide book says that we should use the scientific method to gain true knowledge, I'd say it's a pretty good book.

[Lexical]

If the Monsanto guide book says that we should use the scientific method to gain true knowledge, I'd say it's a pretty good book.

There is a problem with ethics though when they are applying the scientific method about potentially toxic intake to unknowing human participants which is actually considered illegal in the academic realm.

[Orruar]

There is a problem with ethics though when they are applying the scientific method about potentially toxic intake to unknowing human participants which is actually considered illegal in the academic realm.

Right, but that's not what we're discussing.

[dredge]

Right, but that's not what we're discussing.

Dude, read the article

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/gmo-food_b_914968.html

[Lexical]

Right, but that's not what we're discussing.

lol yeah, I was about to correct myself actually. I didn't read the bottom posts of the page and just figured this topic was still on the health affects of food. My bad. :(

[Lexical]

GMO products** not food.

[dredge]

GMO products** not food.

hmm, so 95% of the groceries at the super market are not food?

[Reiker000]

Here you go Reiker.

A new paper reviewing data from 19 animal studies shows that consuming genetically modified (GM) corn or soybeans leads to significant organ disruptions in rats and mice, particularly in livers and kidneys. “Other organs may be affected too, such as the heart and spleen, or blood cells,” stated the paper. In fact some of the animals fed genetically modified organisms had altered body weights, which is “a very good predictor of side effects in various organs.”

Link to scientific journal: http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/10

I forgot that humans are the same as rats/mice.

Again, the biggest problem is that this proposition was an underhanded way for big business to route out small businesses. Everyone in support of 37 have been swindled exactly how they wanted you to be.

I'm not completely against the provisions of the proposition, but the thing was written terribly and really had nothing to do with "protecting people from GM food" like they were trying to lead people to believe. Fortunately, the majority were able to see through this.

Come up with a plan that doesn't completely cripple small retailers and try again.

[Black Jesus]

When I go grocery shopping I walk up and down aisles without putting jack shit in the cart, and I'm not even looking to not eat GMO (well, there's no labels so how would you know?). I skip it because the American diet is high fructose corn syrup cholestoral processed ass bullshit.

So ya, 95% of groceries are not food.

[Black Jesus]

I forgot that humans are the same as rats/mice.

Quoted where I stopped reading because of lunacy denouncing like every clinical trial ever performed.

[dredge]

and really had nothing to do with "protecting people from GM food" like they were trying to lead people to believe.

like by putting fucking GMO labels on the God damn food?

[Reiker000]

like by putting fucking GMO labels on the God damn food?

This will probably be my last response in this thread because 99% of this forum is fucking retarded and as always, completely unable to grasp the entire picture. I'm just repeating myself over and over to receive "lol tldr u mad?" responses from children. If you want to educate yourself about something, get off Project1999.

But, once again, you're being emotionally blackmailed on an issue. You keep repeating "BUT... BUT GMO IS BAD!" without actually responding to the points of Proposition 37 that are bad.

Here's the third time I'll say this: I am not against a larger amount of transparency on purchasable goods. I think most people can say the same thing.

However, the provisions of the bill are awful. You say "putting fucking GMO labels on the god damn food" like some magic label fairies are going to be placed around California to make sure this shit happens. Do you know who's responsible for "putting fucking GMO labels on the god damn food"? Hint: I've said it at least twice in this thread. Do you know exactly what needs to be labelled? Again, probably not. The proposition is so vague retailers would probably need to label everything, even animals bred via selective breeding, which is harmless "genetic modification" that's been going on for thousands of years.

The entire thing is a big business scare tactic and you're falling for it. Again, fortunately not the entirety of California fell for it.

If this passed, guess what would happen? Costs in local "mom and pop" shops would skyrocket, you'd buy more from Walmart or whatever giant, and those small businesses go out of business. And you probably wouldn't eat any differently.

If a similar bill popped up in my state (New York) which actually put the responsibility on the manufacturer instead of the retailer, actually gave a clear outline on what had to happen, and had sane limitations without driving up the costs of food, then sure, I'd probably vote for it. Prop 37 was not that. It was big business takeover veiled in phony science.

[Cypher.]

I'm just a guy who has an interest in nutrition. I was a professional Chef for many years. I managed a High School Cafeteria. I traveled to Mongolia as a consultant and Chef instructor, where I opened a upscale Western Restaurant and trained the staff of about 12 restaurants. etc....

I'm currently an IT student studying Information Assurance/ Network Security at a local tech college.

I don't have to be a scientist to care about what is in our food or what my family eats, and I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that there is a correlation between GMO and rising health issues like cancer and allergies.

So I chose to get informed on the issue,

Alright, considering this, I'm going to assume that IRL you're a reasonable guy who has some experience and is on the right-side of the intelligence curve. That said, let me make a few comments:

1. My guess for the resistance from food large companies for the label change is that it will cost an amount of money that they don't want to spend. I work as an engineer in the medical device industry and the requirements for labeling is very clearly laid out, deviation from which can result in the FDA/CADA coming down on you like the wrath of God. That said, changing labels can be a pain in the ass on a smaller scale - now multiple that by all the products these companies have and I can understand their desire not to mess with their labeling.

2. Either you or someone else mentioned that there is a lack of regulation on what is GMO, etc. I would say that this is the largest issue within the field of GE-ing as regulation is the key to safety. Going back to medical devices, I feel no misgivings if I had to have a procedure in the hospital that uses devices due to the field being so heavily regulated as to assure top quality. Like-wise, GMO can be made perfectly safe (assuming nothing to the contrary rigorously disproves this) with proper regulation such as documentation of quantities of chemicals, what genes are being replaced/modified, standard safety testing performed, and proper labeling. With these regulations in place, I can assure you that the regulating agencies (such as the FDA and CADA) will have no qualms about shutting down producers who violate the regulations that will put consumers at risk.

3. In my mind, there are parallels between medicine 150-200 years ago and now to GMO now compared to possibilities in the future. If you will recall, snake oils, unwashed doctors' hands, and pseudoscience were the norm before the good and bad was separated in medicine that in turn gave rise to the beauty that is modern allopathic and osteopathic medicine. Likewise, GMO is in its infancy and should be nurtured in order to better understand which portions are beneficial and which are harmful so that we don't squander the great potential of this relatively new science.

In summary: Push more for standards and regulation and apply rigorous science to reap the benefits of genetic engineering.

[Reiker000]

^ Culpability for correct labeling was placed on the end retailers and there was no specificity as to what actually needed to be labeled, which would result in over-labeling to cover their asses to a point where it didn't even matter anymore since the whole thing would become diluted with labels about absolutely everything that could be considered "unnatural."

[Spitty]

What he said.

The astounding thing is not that the proposition didn't pass, it's that there are thousands of ill-informed voters across the country blaming California for making the right decision at this time.

You can link Huffington Post's fancy diagrams all you want, but to the populace that's truly informed on the details of Proposition 37, you're a complete fool. You fell for the straw man argument, and embody the meat-with-eyes mentality that enables larger businesses to make massive capital gains - which they absolutely would have if this proposition passed as it was written.

Thankfully, the larger part of California is smarter than you are, and knows that voting is a much more powerful tool than being informed by colorful Huffington Post diagrams.

[Spitty]

Good christ, you people post fast here. I was referring to Reiker's second-down post, but Cypher's just as agreeable.

[Reiker000]

We are trained ForumQuest professionals.

[dredge]

The entire thing is a big business scare tactic and you're falling for it. Again, fortunately not the entirety of California fell for it.
.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61485_10151081964891316_1242773682_n.jpg
Looks like all these green countries fell for it too.

Look man, it's a world market.
When Hershey sells a candy bar in Europe they don't use GMO's because if they did they would have to label it as such and no one would buy it.

So why should they sell the good stuff in Europe, and sell the GMO poison here in the states?

Because they can and they make more profits.

Why would they spend millions fighting prop 37?
Because it protects their profits and that's the number one priority to them.

That small business labeling burden argument is complete bullshit

[Reiker000]

Do you fucking read anything?

[Reiker000]

I'm not against labeling. Not responding to you any further until you can read 1 post and actually make an intelligent response instead of posting pictures you found on reddit/4chan.

[Spitty]

Somebody simply hasn't read the proposition, and has put way too much time and effort into proving a point that's completely pointless. Yes, it's nice to know what other countries have done. That's not the issue at hand.

Hard to swallow pride and back down for a moment for some people, I guess.

[dredge]

Default Orijen and Acana GMO Free

New research that followed more then just a few months of test rats that were fed GMO foods showed a super high rate of cancer and infertility. So I wrote a bunch of dog food brands about the use of genetically modified organisms "GMOs" and Champion's response was the most impressive. Figured I'd share.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........................
MESSAGE
is your kibble free of GMO\'s? I have seen the studies where these foods cause tumors and aggression. I feed the pink bag of Fromm\\\'s puppy gold but am gearing up to change to no grain in the near future and I am thinking since your Canadian that there is a good chance you don\'t use genetically modified organisms in your feed like they think it\'s safe to feed the public here in the USA. Let me know please. -Dredge
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .
Hello Dredge,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your question.
I hope that I can put your mind at ease by telling you that we do not any GMO ingredients. All of the animals raised for us as fresh meat ingredients are fed a GMO free diet.
A couple of other ingredients of concern to consumers in particular are alfalfa, potato and canola oil. Alfalfa GMO seed is illegal to sell in Canada, and we use GMO free potato in our diets.

Canola was developed using traditional plant breeding techniques right here in Canada and is rich in health-protective vitamin E and polyunsaturated fatty acids. Essential polyunsaturated fatty acids, such as Linoleic Acid (an omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid) play an important role in skin and coat health, organ function and decreasing inflammatory conditions, such as arthritis. It is important when formulating diets to ensure the omega 6 to omega 3 fatty are within the nutritionally ideal range. Our cold-pressed, GMO-free Canola oil adds an omega 6 component, traditionally only seen in grains and poultry, without compromising the nutritional integrity of our fish based formulations.
I hope that I have been helpful and please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Kind regards

[dredge]

Same question to top notch well respected American co's:

This is the response from Fromm, I preferred Champion's response because they addressed what the meat sources are fed, this response seems evasive :

Soybeans and corn are the two most genetically modified plants. We do not use these ingredients in any of our products. In addition, we use no ingredients that are genetically modified by crossing two different species of DNA. We do use ingredients produced through hybridization which is a form of genetic modification. So all of us concerned about this matter must be completely sure of what we believe to be a genetically modified organism. We also need to be sure and fully understand the research performed. We have no idea as to the level these rats were fed these substances. If like the saccharin study to where the rats that developed cancer were fed amounts some 750 times greater than a person would ever consume the question becomes did the saccharin really cause the cancer or was it because the levels fed were so high that the stress on the body allowed cancer to develop? I believe the latter because the FDA only listed a warning on saccharin containing foods because there is really no proof that it alone, used at normal levels, causes anything. If it is true the proof is in the pudding, then for over 63 years Fromm has been producing safe, high quality foods and to date there is absolutely no indication what so ever that the foods we produce are harmful in anyway.

As of right now the FDA has no definition of GMO ingredients. Thus without no definition there is no foundation for me to construct an answer. I can say there may be and may not be, but until we have something to stand on, it is very hard to answer this question. All the FDA has acknowledged is that they have accepted the genetic modification of about 40 different plants for various reasons. I am not trying to cloud the issue, but until we have a complete understanding and a very specific definition and guidelines, I really do not have an answer.

Thanks


and
Thank you for your interest in Earthborn Holistic Natural Food for Pets. The main ingredients of concern for GMO are corn and soy. Since our Earthborn products do to contain corn or soy, generally speaking there are little GMO issues with this product line. We don't make the claim that our products are GMO free because we do not grow our ow ingredients and cannot fully control the process. Cross contamination exists on farms, at elevators, etc and to say that traces of it do not exist cold be misleading.

We also do not specify what type of corn *are fed to the animals used for meat sources. It would be nearly impossible to control this aspect of the food.

[Spitty]

Meat. With. Eyes.

[dredge]

jeez, seems like a label might help

[Black Jesus]

heres what the label would have looked like

http://www.islandbreath.org/2009Year/2009-06/090618monsanto.jpg

[dredge]

heres what the label would have looked like

http://www.islandbreath.org/2009Year/2009-06/090618monsanto.jpg

lol

thanks, I needed that

[Spitty]

Listen, let me try and make this succinct.

Your position is sound and agreeable, but mutually exclusive from the idea that Proposition 37 needed to be passed.

Genetically-modified food is, at best, an unknown quantity with vague implications when it comes to human and animal health and wellbeing. Plenty of people are absolutely against eating any product containing manually-modified genetic code. That's fine, and labeling would help that segment of the population achieve that end without an intense amount of time and labor devoted to due consumer research.

Proposition 37 was the malformed result of large companies attempting to fight that labeling. When it became clearer that it would go to popular vote, these large companies lobbied intensely for contingencies that would not only offset their burden, but would allow them gigantic capital gains by swallowing small market retailers that couldn't afford to research and label all items they sold.

You think you put some effort into researching your dog's food? Try multiplying that labor by thousands of products and you'll get the idea of what Proposition 37 would have done to small markets; markets which, especially in California, are already bending over backwards to source local products from genuine farming entities.

The derailment of Proposition 37 may have delayed the GMO labeling debate again, but it's an incredibly smart step in the direction of preventing these GMO companies from increasing in size and clout. It's not hyperbole to say that passing 37 would have resulted in less non-GMO food being available, and Monsanto et. al would have seen massive increases in market shares.

Make sense? You're right, but barking up the wrong tree.

[Orruar]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61485_10151081964891316_1242773682_n.jpg
Looks like all these green countries fell for it too.

Look man, it's a world market.
When Hershey sells a candy bar in Europe they don't use GMO's because if they did they would have to label it as such and no one would buy it.

So why should they sell the good stuff in Europe, and sell the GMO poison here in the states?

Because they can and they make more profits.

Why would they spend millions fighting prop 37?
Because it protects their profits and that's the number one priority to them.

That small business labeling burden argument is complete bullshit

All those green countries used the Prop 37 wording in their regulations?

Again, you can't seem to grasp anything between a two-solution paradigm. All you see is two sides to an issue and can't possibly comprehend anything more complex than that.

[Reiker000]

Listen, let me try and make this succinct.

Your position is sound and agreeable, but mutually exclusive from the idea that Proposition 37 needed to be passed.

Genetically-modified food is, at best, an unknown quantity with vague implications when it comes to human and animal health and wellbeing. Plenty of people are absolutely against eating any product containing manually-modified genetic code. That's fine, and labeling would help that segment of the population achieve that end without an intense amount of time and labor devoted to due consumer research.

Proposition 37 was the malformed result of large companies attempting to fight that labeling. When it became clearer that it would go to popular vote, these large companies lobbied intensely for contingencies that would not only offset their burden, but would allow them gigantic capital gains by swallowing small market retailers that couldn't afford to research and label all items they sold.

You think you put some effort into researching your dog's food? Try multiplying that labor by thousands of products and you'll get the idea of what Proposition 37 would have done to small markets; markets which, especially in California, are already bending over backwards to source local products from genuine farming entities.

The derailment of Proposition 37 may have delayed the GMO labeling debate again, but it's an incredibly smart step in the direction of preventing these GMO companies from increasing in size and clout. It's not hyperbole to say that passing 37 would have resulted in less non-GMO food being available, and Monsanto et. al would have seen massive increases in market shares.

Make sense? You're right, but barking up the wrong tree.

Don't waste your time with well thought out, educated responses. They're already too busy preparing their "lol tldr u mad?" responses complete with non-related meme image ripped from reddit.

[Spitty]

I just want you guys to let me into your club.

/http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kCBnP-Xr-bI/TUJSyl_3zUI/AAAAAAAAAbw/aRzBbnYl1wg/s400/seal.jpg

[Spitty]

How the fuck did that fail so hard? Damn you, extraslash.

[Spitty]

It was a baby seal. The joke is now completely ruined.

[Lexical]

hmm, so 95% of the groceries at the super market are not food?

I was making a correction to my statement that one since food was too generic of a term >.<

[Reiker000]

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/916323.jpg

Am I doing it right? I'm new to this whole "idiot" thing.

[Spitty]

No, your image actually showed up. See above for being an idiot.

[dredge]

Don't waste your time with well thought out, educated responses. They're already too busy preparing their "lol tldr u mad?" responses complete with non-related meme image ripped from reddit.

actually dude if you go through my posts I didn't once respond with any thing like that. I have given articles and charts and images that help support my argument.

On the other hand, You have insulted me by questioning my intellect and furthermore, you have not brought any evidence to support any of your claims.

So really, are you sure your not the one calling the kettle black?

[Reiker000]

On the other hand, You have insulted me by questioning my intellect and furthermore, you have not brought any evidence to support any of your claims.

Are you fucking for real? All I'm doing is telling you what's in the proposition. You want my evidence? READ THE FUCKING THING. But we all know you won't actually do that.

[Cypher.]

actually dude if you go through my posts I didn't once respond with any thing like that. I have given articles and charts and images that help support my argument.

On the other hand, You have insulted me by questioning my intellect and furthermore, you have not brought any evidence to support any of your claims.

So really, are you sure your not the one calling the kettle black?

If you're going to talk science, try referencing something like this:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889157510000098

[Spitty]

So really, are you sure your not the one calling the kettle black?

You know, thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my post.

[Reiker000]

You know, thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my post.

My guess is he's too busy occupying oakland, dreading his hair, and buying some new hemp bead necklaces.

[Hasbinlulz]

My guess is he's too busy occupying oakland, dreading his hair, and buying some new hemp bead necklaces.
lolwut?

[dredge]

My guess is he's too busy occupying oakland, dreading his hair, and buying some new hemp bead necklaces.

sorry I was busy trying on my new argyle sweater
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1243/4327470/24218261/404552206.jpg
do you like it?

[dredge]

http://youtu.be/MbvYwg-Aqis

[Ephirith]

The motivation behind this shit is almost purely irrational fear of esoteric science. That's what this is about. It's hilarious to me that such a large group of people would raise such a fuss about some genetically modified food potentially causing harm.

Meanwhile, more than 50% of them are overweight, and a similar proportion scarfs down potato chips, cheeseburgers, and copious amounts of sugar on a daily basis... thoroughly destroying the health of their bodies.

Oh shit! What if this genetically altered food might give me cancer? I don't know if it does or not, so it clearly does! Nom nom nom nom... mmmm bacon

[iNteg]

If you genetically engineer bacon to taste even bacon-ier I don't give a shit it's delicious.

[dredge]

The motivation behind this shit is almost purely irrational fear of esoteric science. That's what this is about. It's hilarious to me that such a large group of people would raise such a fuss about some genetically modified food potentially causing harm.

Meanwhile, more than 50% of them are overweight, and a similar proportion scarfs down potato chips, cheeseburgers, and copious amounts of sugar on a daily basis... thoroughly destroying the health of their bodies.

Oh shit! What if this genetically altered food might give me cancer? I don't know if it does or not, so it clearly does! Nom noms nom nom... mmmm bacon
You obviously know nothing on the subject. Why don't you read up and come back when you have some facts

[Black Jesus]

From my more than basic understanding of the topic, there's two general ways GMO crops work.


1. They splice the genes so that when bugs eat it, they die.
2. They splice the genes so the plants can survive more pesticides, so the bugs die.

Either way the bugs die. And what's bad for bugs is bad for you country bumpkins.

[dredge]

Good luck finding non-GMO seeds, those don't have to be labeled either.

Exactly, non gmo soy for example is in danger of becoming extinct.

These monsters want to control the whole enchilada, watch the movie folks

[dredge]

You know the one cafeteria in the states where you wont find any gmo's?

At Monsanto's hq.
They post signs that say it.
I wonder why they won't eat it?

[Ephirith]

Its a CONSPIRACY.

WAKE UP people.

Everyone is a bunch of SHEEP.

Big science is scheming with the CORPORATIONS to poison us for profit.

I'm a fat fuck who can't jog for one mile, but genetic engineering is UNHEALTHY-- the internet said so!

[dredge]

"Unfortunately, it is impossible to verify that genetically modified crops perform as advertised. That is because agritech companies have given themselves veto power over the work of independent researchers."
— Scientific American Editorial 13.8.2009

"Most safety studies of genetically modified organisms have been conducted by the corporations that market them. Their results have generally been withheld from independent reviewers, and intellectual property rights restrictions are used to create barriers to conducting independent studies."
— New York Times letter to editor 2011

babzee420 (5 weeks ago)

A new GMO study may very well change the way that the world looks at GMOs once and for all. Complete with shocking and very disturbing photos of rats with tumors larger than a golf ball in size, a new French GMO study has concluded that rats fed a lifelong diet consisting of Roundup-containing genetically modified corn suffered serious consequences. While the onset of tumors was the most obvious and damaging effect, the researchers reveal that the rats also received heavy amounts of damage to multiple organs.

As a result of the mass tumors, liver and kidney damage, it was concluded that around 50% of the males and 70% of the females died prematurely as a result of eating only Roundup tolerant seed or drinking water with Roundup as approved levels set by the United States government.

Read more: naturalsociety.com/gmo-study-rats-fed-lifetim e-of-gm-deve...

[Orruar]

As a result of the mass tumors, liver and kidney damage, it was concluded that around 50% of the males and 70% of the females died prematurely as a result of eating only Roundup tolerant seed or drinking water with Roundup as approved levels set by the United States government.

And so naturally when you are attempting to solve a problem that is condoned by the government, you turn to the government. Makes sense.

[dredge]

Its a CONSPIRACY.

I'm a fat fuck who can't jog for one mile, but genetic engineering is UNHEALTHY-- the internet said so!

your right, I'm fat and unhealthy, so what.
Does that mean I shouldn't be concerned with what the children are eating?
With what is happening to independent farmers?
etc....
the list goes on and on,

but your right, I can't do 10 pull ups so I guess my opinion doesn't count

[dredge]

http://thecrazyhistoryofhistory.blogspot.com/2012/09/gmomonsanto-versus-planet.html

[Ephirith]

your right, I'm fat and unhealthy, so what.
Does that mean I shouldn't be concerned with what the children are eating?
With what is happening to independent farmers?
etc....
the list goes on and on,

but your right, I can't do 10 pull ups so I guess my opinion doesn't count

It means you need to put things in perspective and show logical consistency.

Why so much emphasis on genetically engineered food when, even if everything you are saying is true, it still isn't as damaging to your health as abuse of sugar or fat-filled foods? Or physical inactivity?

We don't see labels on candy bars or cheeseburgers that say "THE SUGAR/FAT IN THIS WILL DAMAGE YOUR HEALTH IF CONSUMED IN LARGE AMOUNTS", when that is undisputed empirical fact.

I don't inherently disagree with labeling food if it is genetically altered. My problem with it is that it is clearly motivated by fear, ignorance, and a misplaced sense of importance by the same breed of dipshit who buys organic food because it is "healthy", and then sits on the couch all fucking day every day.

Some day genetic engineering may allow us to grow crops without using harmful pesticides, and without any ill effects if eaten. Prop 37 was championed by 'organic' and 'natural' foods companies who have a vested interest in selling you an $8 vegetable.

[dredge]

"Prop 37 was championed by 'organic' and 'natural' foods companies who have a vested interest in selling you an $8 vegetable."


I'm sorry, I disagree.
Prop 37 was championed mostly by mothers with children with severe allergies and people sick and tired of trying to make healthy decisions and not being able to due to the lack of labeling.

On the other hand prop 37 was squashed by corporate interest in profit, big pharm and others fueled by greed:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/484905_369600563127115_1933826598_n.png
sure there are small organic companies with invested interest for prop 37 to pass, but they are grossly out weighed by the corporate and big pharm money on the other side.

We need a change.

Do you really think a vegetable cost $8 in China, Russia or Europe?
Why do you suppose these countries won't let our gmo crops over their borders?

You can't let Monsanto regulate them-self and trust their own scientific studies, and as soon as and independent tries to conduct a study their funds are yanked by the university due to Monsanto pressure.

[Spitty]

Still haven't heard back on that one post.

Confirmed meat-with-eyes. Keep bleating about your cause, righteous warrior.

[Orruar]

Keep on fighting to have the government solve your problems. By the time they implement a halfassed "solution" that doesn't solve the problem, you could have solved it a hundred times over using non-governmental methods.

[Orruar]

Keep on fighting to have the government solve your problems. By the time they implement a halfassed "solution" that doesn't solve the problem, you could have solved it a hundred times over using non-governmental methods.

I should be more clear.

You'll be able to solve it using market forces if it really is a problem. If you can't convince enough people to give a shit about the problem, perhaps that means you're fighting for a non-important cause. Usually when people run to the government to address an issue, it's because they have failed at convincing people on their own.

[dredge]

Keep on fighting to have the government solve your problems. By the time they implement a halfassed "solution" that doesn't solve the problem, you could have solved it a hundred times over using non-governmental methods.

I get right on hiring a elite team of incorruptible science Ninjas to battle the system, we can do underground tests with out anyone's financial backing.

this sound like a great idea

[Ephirith]

Usually when people run to the government to address an issue, it's because they have failed at convincing people on their own.

This

[Reiker000]

I get right on hiring a elite team of incorruptible science Ninjas to battle the system, we can do underground tests with out anyone's financial backing.

this sound like a great idea

Or you could drum up support for a bill that actually accomplishes the things you believe in without the ambiguity and detriment towards small business that Proposition 37 had. But nah, keep on armchair warrioring over Project 1999 forums, I'm sure that will accomplish a lot.

[dredge]

I'm sure that will accomplish a lot.

I accomplished what I set out to do. I came here to rant and rave about prop 37 results, done.

I'm also getting entertained and fighting boredom at school

[Spitty]

Browsing RNF at school.

Yeah, you're future's so bright you'll need a mob and a paper hat.

[Spitty]

Mop. MOP! Fuck this forum.

[dredge]

Mop. MOP! Fuck this forum.

lol

I know how you feel

[Hailto]

Browsing RNF at school.

Yeah, you're future's so bright you'll need a mob and a paper hat.

Also, your*

[doraf]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61485_10151081964891316_1242773682_n.jpg
Looks like all these green countries fell for it too.

Look man, it's a world market.
When Hershey sells a candy bar in Europe they don't use GMO's because if they did they would have to label it as such and no one would buy it.

So why should they sell the good stuff in Europe, and sell the GMO poison here in the states?

Because they can and they make more profits.

Why would they spend millions fighting prop 37?
Because it protects their profits and that's the number one priority to them.

That small business labeling burden argument is complete bullshit

Where are all the colored dots for the other European, Asian, South American, and African countries? I remember there being a lot more countries when I studied geography and traveled.

[dredge]

I'm still confused how you two think the private sector "using market forces" is supposed to accomplish and replace what the FDA is there to do.

[Spitty]

Also, your*

Your right.

Your missing a period, by the way.

[doraf]

Originally Posted by Ephirith
The motivation behind this shit is almost purely irrational fear of esoteric science. That's what this is about. It's hilarious to me that such a large group of people would raise such a fuss about some genetically modified food potentially causing harm.

Meanwhile, more than 50% of them are overweight, and a similar proportion scarfs down potato chips, cheeseburgers, and copious amounts of sugar on a daily basis... thoroughly destroying the health of their bodies.

Oh shit! What if this genetically altered food might give me cancer? I don't know if it does or not, so it clearly does! Nom noms nom nom... mmmm bacon


You obviously know nothing on the subject. Why don't you read up and come back when you have some facts

You should educated Ephirith with some green and orange dots or an article about rats w/ no baseline tests conducted. Then will he will understand the way of the ManBearPig like the rest of us. :)

[Spitty]

I'm still confused how you two think the private sector "using market forces" is supposed to accomplish and replace what the FDA is there to do.

I'm still confused how you think denying Prop 37 and refusing to label GMO products are the same.

[Orruar]

I'm still confused how you two think the private sector "using market forces" is supposed to accomplish and replace what the FDA is there to do.

After I gave a couple examples? You'd make a terrible businessman, but don't worry, we still need people to do the manual labor.

Here's a hint of how free market regulation works: Underwriter's Laboratories

Question: If there were two foods, one labeled as non-GMO by the FDA, and one labeled and non-GMO by a reputable testing company, which would you prefer, all other things being equal? If you choose the FDA product, why?

[doraf]

You obviously know nothing on the subject. Why don't you read up and come back when you have some facts

Your right.

Your missing a period, by the way.

You're missing an apostrophie and an "e." But, I typed "educated" in a previous post when I meant "educate," so who am I to correct anyone either. LOL

[Shaun421]

I haven't even played this shit for a year, but honestly, this discussion drove me up a wall.

WE GET IT. You dont like GMOs. You want to know what products contain them.

We're talking about fucking PROP 37 and the LANGUAGE contained in that specific prop. Get off you're fucking hippy high horse and READ what people are trying to tell you. Many of whom AGREE with your stance on the labels.

In addition to the potential damage to "mom and pop" shops, Prop 37 would have opened the door to all sorts of frivilous (fuck you spelling) lawsuits, akin to the ADA bullshit suits. Prop 37 allowed ANYONE to file a suit against any company alleged of failing to meet the new regulation, regardless if that party received damages in any sort of way. This can be extrapolated to mean anyone could sue a company without even needing PROOF of a violation. The burden is now on business to defend themselves against baseless accusations that caused no harm, EVEN IF THE COMPANY DID EVERYTHING BY THE LAW.

We don't need any more fucking bullshit suits. They either A, clog up an already fucked court system, or B, companies settle out of court to avoid court costs of defending themselves, which encourages more bullshit suits.

It was a poorly written proposition. Good intention, we all love transparency, but fucking READ what the shit says before you whip out your graphs and argue something that no one was even talking about.

Fuck.

[dredge]

After I gave a couple examples? You'd make a terrible businessman, but don't worry, we still need people to do the manual labor.

Here's a hint of how free market regulation works: Underwriter's Laboratories

Question: If there were two foods, one labeled as non-GMO by the FDA, and one labeled and non-GMO by a reputable testing company, which would you prefer, all other things being equal? If you choose the FDA product, why?

lol, manual labor, ok, I'm not above getting my hands dirty
and I'm no where near being a hippie other guy.

I would choose the FDA because it's the one in the position and the authority to regulate.

[Orruar]

I would choose the FDA because it's the one in the position and the authority to regulate.

Shocking, you'd choose the unaccountable entity that stands to lose nothing if they make a mistake. Any business that accidentally approved a GMO food and labeled it as non-GMO would stand to lose a lot of money if mistakes are made. If the FDA messes up, you can't just stop paying part of your taxes. In fact, such a mistake would likely lead to an increase in funding, as they would claim that they have insufficient resources to do the job.

[Ephirith]

Any business that accidentally approved a GMO food and labeled it as non-GMO would stand to lose a lot of money if mistakes are made. If the FDA messes up, you can't just stop paying part of your taxes.

It's hilarious you think this is how it actually works.

[Spitty]

You're missing an apostrophie and an "e." But, I typed "educated" in a previous post when I meant "educate," so who am I to correct anyone either. LOL

If we're being pedantic, I twice missed an 'e' and twice missed an apostrophe (correctly spelled here) in that two-part statement. However, good sir, I delightfully inform you now that it was completely intentional and designed to evoke the spirits of those that dwell under yonder bridge.

[Orruar]

It's hilarious you think this is how it actually works.

I'd love to hear how you think markets function, if it's not people voluntarily trading their pieces of paper for things they value more. Do you really debate that if a business makes a mistake that angers its customers, that business does not lose money?

[doraf]

If we're being pedantic, I twice missed an 'e' and twice missed an apostrophe (correctly spelled here) in that two-part statement. However, good sir, I delightfully inform you now that it was completely intentional and designed to evoke the spirits of those that dwell under yonder bridge.

Oh hey Spit! I've been meaning to direct you to this video.

<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c8_YILH5khc?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c8_YILH5khc?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[dredge]

^ stay on target

but what a waste of technology, why does it take all that equipment to make a song that sounds like it from a casio 2000 keyboard?

[dredge]

Shocking, you'd choose the unaccountable entity that stands to lose nothing if they make a mistake. Any business that accidentally approved a GMO food and labeled it as non-GMO would stand to lose a lot of money if mistakes are made. If the FDA messes up, you can't just stop paying part of your taxes. In fact, such a mistake would likely lead to an increase in funding, as they would claim that they have insufficient resources to do the job.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1243/4327470/24218261/404570119.jpg

EAT IT!

[dredge]

whoops sorry, here it is:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1243/4327470/24218261/404570119.jpg

now EAT IT!

[Orruar]

You managed to post that picture 3 times in 8 minutes. Yet you still avoid the question: If you believe that the free market is better at providing goods and services, why do you make an exception for food labeling? Give a reasoned and logical explanation on why the market will fail to provide this particular function.

[doraf]

whoops sorry, here it is:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1243/4327470/24218261/404570119.jpg

now EAT IT!

I guess it is hard to govern a state or be taken seriously if you're farting all over the place.

Maybe I can write the labels. "Warning, GMO and gluten! You may grow a tail, get lung cancer, and possibly shoot fire out of your ass. You will definitely have severe anal leakage. Check back side for green and orange poke a dot chart that undeniably proves any other random nonsense I may come up with"

Back off topic. Circuit bent Casio just for you Dredge. :)

<object width="480" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZBfNeXhiJHE?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZBfNeXhiJHE?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[Orruar]

This doesn't apply when "the masses" have become a giant herd of mindless sheep.

Most people don't even know what "GMO" stands for, or how common it is (ie in almost everything we eat.)

As I said before -- I just saw a Kellogs Cornflakes commercial the other night. The commercial told me, several times, that I should buy they products because they're "100% natural."

It's these very companies who've lobbied the very laws that allow them to use such misleading terms. Just like that bottle of whatever you're drinking that probably says "with natural flavors" all over it is anything BUT natural.

Hell almost nothing says "artifically flavored" on it anymore. The food companies essentially lobbied laws that allowed for them to replace "artificial flavors" with "natural flavors" (which refer, technically, to flavors ARTIFICALLY SYNTHESIZED, at least in part, by a natural product containing the flavor being emulated.) It's still totally artificial.

Right, but if people are all just a bunch of mindless sheep, how would democracy solve that? You still need to convince 50% of the population to support this. If they're all stupid and oblivious to GMO, then you fail to pass the law. And as you point out, even if a law is passed, it's likely that the companies being regulated will have their hands all over the regulations and craft them to their advantage.

Companies will respond long before 50% of their customers become upset with them for using GMO foods. If any significant portion of the population shifted their habits and only gave their money to companies that truly satisfied their needs, you'd see businesses shift their production methods. I think the problem the GMO people have at this point is that many people simply don't believe all the GMO hype, and so they won't shift their habits. So it is their job to try and change minds. They are apparently failing at doing that on their own, so they're hoping labeling laws will do the job for them. Even if labeling laws have some benefit to society, it's still wrong to use these laws as a scare tactic.

[dredge]

If its so easy to vote with your wallet then I challenge you to go to the regular store and buy food to feed a family of four for a day without buying any GMOs.

Let us know how it turns out

[Orruar]

If its so easy to vote with your wallet then I challenge you to go to the regular store and buy food to feed a family of four for a day without buying any GMOs.

Let us know how it turns out

No thanks. You're the one that wants to eat exclusively non-GMO food, and so you should be the one that bears the cost of doing so. By supporting labeling laws, you're attempting to get everyone else to pay for your choices.

I'll give you a helping hand though. The magical Google machine turned up literally dozens of websites devoted to giving you information on which foods to buy for a non-GMO diet. Some even have smart phone apps you can use while at the grocery store! Holy shit, look at that, the free market is already solving this problem that you're crying to the government about!

https://www.google.com/search?q=list+of+non+GMO+foods&rlz=1C1ASUM_enUS483US483&aq=f&oq=list+of+non+GMO+foods&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Reiker000]

If its so easy to vote with your wallet then I challenge you to go to the regular store and buy food to feed a family of four for a day without buying any GMOs.

Let us know how it turns out

http://www.troll.me/images/retard-superman/keep-it-up-fight-the-good-fight-thumb.jpg

[dredge]

http://youtu.be/bFEoMO0pc7k

[dredge]

Back off topic. Circuit bent Casio just for you Dredge. :)

<object width="480" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZBfNeXhiJHE?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZBfNeXhiJHE?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

this is way better and it didn't even need any gizmos
******** width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tg24k7tzIc0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[dredge]

<a href="******** width=" 420"="" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tg24k7tzIc0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="">"><a href="******** width=" 420"="" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tg24k7tzIc0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="">******** src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tg24k7tzIc0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

[dredge]

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tg24k7tzIc0?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tg24k7tzIc0?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

i did it :-)

[dragonfists]

there is too much corruption around this.. i purposely will buy any non-gmo labeled food over unlabeled food, its just too bad we don't have laws like europe that enforce labeling gmo foods.

monsanto has terrible pr, they dont care, they own all the patents and are making a killing

[Orruar]

dredge, you still haven't answered what about food labeling makes it more effectively done by government. Your selectively edited picture didn't even answer that question. While you work on that, let's consider this from another angle. You have said that there is no universally agreed upon definition of GMO. If we leave food labeling up to government, we must then use their definition. What happens if that definition is too narrow? If they include some foods as non-GMO that you consider to be GMO, suddenly that label is useless. You are either back to doing your own research, or you're back to fighting for a change in the labeling. In the free market, if someone comes up with an overly narrow definition, and there are people who would like a broader definition, a competing company can come in and offer that service. Once again, it won't take anywhere near 50% of the population for this to occur. As soon as enough demand is out there for a more broad definition of GMO, business will move to capitalize on it.

This would indicate to me that even if you believe in government food labeling for some things, such as fat content and whether gluten is present, you could still think we should leave GMO up to the market. These other metrics are very easy to define. Either a food will trigger a reaction in a celiac or it won't. GMO is not as readily defined, and so requires a more flexible apparatus to regulate. The government simply moves too slowly to keep up with the demands of the people in this area. Businesses can, and have, reacted to this issue much more swiftly.

[dredge]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/27990_10151303436676368_1214599151_n.jpg

http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2012/11/peru-passes-monumental-ten-year-ban-on.html

hmm, somehow all these 3rd world countries and do what we think impossible

[vaylorie]

Real men like their meat the same as they like their women. Genetically modified, offal and all.

[dredge]

http://spaceghetto.org/images/67901.jpg