new rules terrible

[heartbrand]

Not even going to bother going line by line but the new rules are terrible and do not reflect the reality on the ground nor the will of the players. Something like this should come from the bottom up aka from the players not top down from GM's who don't actually play here.

[Vladigan]

You will be taken more seriously if you give reasons/arguments for your dislike for the rules.

Also, anyone can just say that something is "not fair", "sucks", etc. Instead of complaining, try to offer some suggestions or alternatives to be considered.

This isn't Nazi Germany. I am pretty sure the people in charge of making decisions will listen to reasonable requests and logical ideas. Not to say they will do what you want, but learn how to debate instead of bitch and you will be surprised how much more effective your time can be!

Just my 2 cents on the subject matter....

[Nirgon]

It falls just short its intent. Please include grey areas.

[Amelinda]

It falls just short its intent. Please include grey areas.

LOL wait - you are calling for us to include gray areas in the rules???

your guildies have cried whenever there is a rule that has a gray area

[Hammertime]

training = pvp tactic

[Lazortag]

Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, ... is AGAINST the rules.

This is the part that I raise my eyebrows towards, since (if I'm reading it right) this includes rooting people mid-kite, or mez-pushing people into lava, or drowning people, or mez-pushing someone off of a tall building. Which, if I remember correctly, Amelinda was perfectly okay with not too long ago. So I'm guessing this is just written wrong?
(edited to be more clear)

[Nirgon]

So have a lot of other people.

Don't take my word for it though.

As far as crying, let me fuck you up with some truth and a reminder.

"Grey area" is introduced or exploit goes unpunished.

Our guild tolerates it for a few hours or maybe a week or two. Nothing happens, we're told by the other players to "deal with it" or "qq moar".

We take hold of said exploit or grey area and destroy what they "had going for them".

Then the real crying to the staff starts and unsurprisingly gets a result in their favor.

"Nagafen is being exploited" -> weeks of deafening silence.
Players wiped in PvP, strat stolen. GMs beat the shit out of Holocaust.

"CT rotation set off is legal deal with it" -> GMs agree.
Holocaust repeats step, new rule is created to benefit team originating the problem.

Hope this reality check was beneficial.

Ask me why I don't play here, I'm happy to go into further details regarding the above.

As far as grey areas? And the above post? Thanks for telling people what they already know, super helpful.

You should break these grey areas down. Or maybe you just like your job being harder than it has to be and people ripping on you. I don't know, its one of the two or both. It certainly doesn't help the server population, people notice.

Things were just fine with us stealing their exploits and turning them against them. Staff interaction has created a certain imbalance that is irreparable at this point. Exploited loots going unremoved for too long to create the illusion of legitimacy and used to farm dino in OOT / kill other raid targets to acquire gear etc.

Similar to how an old joke goes: What do you tell a server with two black eyes? Nothing, you already told it twice.

[oldfish]

Where are these new rules?

If the quote is correct, this is getting way too ridiculous

Intent to cause PVE death against the rules?

[heartbrand]

"Petition Rules
• GM's and guides are unpaid volunteers who put forth their time and effort to make your experience more enjoyable. They will be treated with the respect that they are deserving of or you may face disciplinary action."

Disagree, we the players have no voice in who the GM's and Guides are so why should those imposed upon us with no vote expect to be respected?

"Accountability:
Our server is a Guild vs. Guild server, and as such a Guild (or alliance of guilds) can be punished for the actions of its members. The basic message here is for guild leaders to keep a leash on some of the more colorful members. To clarify, If a member of Guild_A trains Guild_B, then the staff reserves the right to take disciplinary action not only against the player doing the training, but also to take identical actions against the highest ranking leader or officer (as determined by the staff) online at the time of the incident. So, if you're in the officer/leader role of your guild, we can and will hold you accountable for the conduct of your members. If you have a member training in such and such zone and you're online, don't be surprised if we suspend you as well in addition to him. You are responsible for your own guild members. Till Death Do You Part, For Better *or* For Worse. And disguising your officers as members won't work. We know who generally runs the show in each guild."

Terrible, dumb, retarded, etc. People should never be punished for the sins of others, this isn't the year 2000 B.C in Mesopotamia. This is a server that lends itself to zerg vs. zerg which inevitably means there are going to be some dumbasses, punish those who act not those who do not. Pretty simple.

"Causing XP Loss:
• The Staff strongly supports and encourages the use of PvP by guilds to enact their wishes throughout the world, but only PvP that is within the rule-set of this server. Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules. All players need to know that attacking a raid party while they are engaged on a raid mob is NOT against the rules, however, as soon as a player brings intentionally brings NPCs/Mobs into that PvP encounter they are breaking the rules, and can be banned for such actions."

Unenforceable, requires running Fraps 24/7, will result in 1% getting punished while 99% get away with it. Any rule which lends itself to such a result should not be a rule. Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming, learn how to invis / sidestep mobs, go out and proactively engage potential griefers before they can grief you and kill them, etc. etc.

"Training:
Intentionally causing experience death to a player, or utilizing NPCs to cause intentional damage or death to a player is against the rules. If you make a mistake, try and make it right. If you need Staff assistance to help make the situation right, let us know. Remember, taking advantage of a bad situation that you have caused on accident is just as bad as doing it on purpose in the first place."

Same thing not enforceable, should be legit tactic for example training out guilds that want to turtle at a zone line.

"Bind Rushing/Camping, Corpse Camping:
The staff reserves the right to step in if we feel that Bind Rushing, Bind Camping, or Corpse Camping has become or is becoming excessive."

That's why you can plug.

[Nirgon]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/1/28/2352e3e8-ecad-402e-9a86-2d6526e20e28.jpg

[Vladigan]

"Causing XP Loss:
• The Staff strongly supports and encourages the use of PvP by guilds to enact their wishes throughout the world, but only PvP that is within the rule-set of this server. Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules. All players need to know that attacking a raid party while they are engaged on a raid mob is NOT against the rules, however, as soon as a player brings intentionally brings NPCs/Mobs into that PvP encounter they are breaking the rules, and can be banned for such actions."

Unenforceable, requires running Fraps 24/7, will result in 1% getting punished while 99% get away with it. Any rule which lends itself to such a result should not be a rule. Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming, learn how to invis / sidestep mobs, go out and proactively engage potential griefers before they can grief you and kill them, etc. etc.


Just want to bring to your attention the two points that seem to void each other out...

"Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules"

and

"Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming"

I can see where this would create confusion. You say you can't use an NPC for PVP but then say that NPC's are part of PVP. I am assuming you were more concerned about training which you seemed to cover pretty well in another section.

I would recommend revising this section so the true intent of it is clearly understood. Thanks

[Nirgon]

I can see where this would create confusion.

Whew. At least two people have common sense around here.

[Darwoth]

seems like for some reason or other staff feels the need to interfere and meddle creating a bunch of rules lawyering bullshit just like on blue when the majority of the playerbase want to be left alone to do as they please when it comes to player interactions.

dont know why and have stopped bothering to try and figure it out, but it really is unfortunate as this drives off just as many people as any of the other mainline issues here.

why is it so unacceptable to simply adopt a "tough shit, your on your own for everything other than hackers and bugs" stance when most here want it that way, and it would mean infinitely less work for said staff?

[Nirgon]

Head of CSR reportedly has "no time" -> Logs in immediately to server broadcast against us and hand down punishments.

You tell me Darwoth.

[heartbrand]

seems like for some reason or other staff feels the need to interfere and meddle creating a bunch of rules lawyering bullshit just like on blue when the majority of the playerbase want to be left alone to do as they please when it comes to player interactions.

dont know why and have stopped bothering to try and figure it out, but it really is unfortunate as this drives off just as many people as any of the other mainline issues here.

why is it so unacceptable to simply adopt a "tough shit, your on your own for everything other than hackers and bugs" stance when most here want it that way, and it would mean infinitely less work for said staff?

Can someone please appoint this man President of the red server? This is supposed to be a PVP server not a lawyer vs lawyer server

[Autotune]

Blue pen just laid the smack down on your red box.

[Null]

"Petition Rules
• GM's and guides are unpaid volunteers who put forth their time and effort to make your experience more enjoyable. They will be treated with the respect that they are deserving of or you may face disciplinary action."

Disagree, we the players have no voice in who the GM's and Guides are so why should those imposed upon us with no vote expect to be respected?


Think of the server less like a country that you are living in and more like a free hostel in a city of free hostels. If someone is going to be a prick, shit on the floor and walk around acting entitled to the staff then they can get the fuck out. There are plenty of other hostels around, ours has a pool and go karts though so wipe your feed imho.


"Accountability:
Our server is a Guild vs. Guild server, and as such a Guild (or alliance of guilds) can be punished for the actions of its members. The basic message here is for guild leaders to keep a leash on some of the more colorful members. To clarify, If a member of Guild_A trains Guild_B, then the staff reserves the right to take disciplinary action not only against the player doing the training, but also to take identical actions against the highest ranking leader or officer (as determined by the staff) online at the time of the incident. So, if you're in the officer/leader role of your guild, we can and will hold you accountable for the conduct of your members. If you have a member training in such and such zone and you're online, don't be surprised if we suspend you as well in addition to him. You are responsible for your own guild members. Till Death Do You Part, For Better *or* For Worse. And disguising your officers as members won't work. We know who generally runs the show in each guild."

Terrible, dumb, retarded, etc. People should never be punished for the sins of others, this isn't the year 2000 B.C in Mesopotamia. This is a server that lends itself to zerg vs. zerg which inevitably means there are going to be some dumbasses, punish those who act not those who do not. Pretty simple.


This is here to combat guilds perpetuating a culture of violating rules, where 'taking one for the team' is rewarded post suspension. It provides motivation for officers and guild leaders to keep their dregs in line. It also has real world analogies far beyond 2000B.C. Mesopotamia...such as this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act ). The intent here is not to hit officers and guild leaders whenever their members misstep, its to punish them if they repeatedly show that they can not control their guild members.


"Causing XP Loss:
• The Staff strongly supports and encourages the use of PvP by guilds to enact their wishes throughout the world, but only PvP that is within the rule-set of this server. Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules. All players need to know that attacking a raid party while they are engaged on a raid mob is NOT against the rules, however, as soon as a player brings intentionally brings NPCs/Mobs into that PvP encounter they are breaking the rules, and can be banned for such actions."

Unenforceable, requires running Fraps 24/7, will result in 1% getting punished while 99% get away with it. Any rule which lends itself to such a result should not be a rule. Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming, learn how to invis / sidestep mobs, go out and proactively engage potential griefers before they can grief you and kill them, etc. etc.


This area might need a bit of rewording. AFAIK the intent here is to stop training (ill get more into this in the next quote) and not to require people to completely disengage or not initiate when mobs are involved. We are talking this part over in the staff forum, but the wording here is tricky so if any wordsmiths want to have a hand at this one (or any other rules) we wouldn't complain.


"Training:
Intentionally causing experience death to a player, or utilizing NPCs to cause intentional damage or death to a player is against the rules. If you make a mistake, try and make it right. If you need Staff assistance to help make the situation right, let us know. Remember, taking advantage of a bad situation that you have caused on accident is just as bad as doing it on purpose in the first place."

Same thing not enforceable, should be legit tactic for example training out guilds that want to turtle at a zone line.

Bluntly, training isn't going to be legal, but it wasn't legal on live and it still happened. If anything the fact that it was illegal kept it in the realm of tactic and not a complete replacement for actual PvP, just like <insert sports analogy>.


"Bind Rushing/Camping, Corpse Camping:
The staff reserves the right to step in if we feel that Bind Rushing, Bind Camping, or Corpse Camping has become or is becoming excessive."

That's why you can plug.



This is here to protect new players from being griefed off the server before becoming invested almost exclusively. The only other situation that I can imagine where a established player would get staff protection from the above is if it was causing issues for staff rectifying an outside issue (like we cannot resolve a petition because the dude is in a constant state of loading). Even then it would have to be one hell of a petition to warrant getting involved like that.

[Nirgon]

If someone is going to be a prick, shit on the floor and walk around acting entitled to the staff then they can get the fuck out.


Or they can stay here and continue performing acts that risk the project being shut down and bully the staff.

I have no problems with Null or Amelinda (aside from a tiff or two).

The rules leave much to be desired and certainly are grounds for further ridiculousness where there should be none. Things need to be clearly spelled out, especially in known and documented cases that have tried and succeeded in breaking these rules before or known petitioned cases where a player left with a bad taste in his/her mouth.

[Null]

The rules leave much to be desired and certainly are grounds for further ridiculousness where there should be none. Things need to be clearly spelled out, especially in known and documented cases that have tried and succeeded in breaking these rules before or known petitioned cases where a player left with a bad taste in his/her mouth.

well, start shooting off examples.

[Nirgon]

Of what?

People staying around here and shitting things up? The community has called for the head of Richgirl etc many times. There is one way to resolve and silence this.

Or grey areas within these rules that were some how neglected? As Amelinda has said to others before she can kindly check her inbox. She can forward you this and discuss. I think my suggestions are nonpartisan and very constructive.

[loserofgame]

well, start shooting off examples.

Could you please put back up a copy of the original draft of rules, the thread has been removed. I would also like to re-read them and offer constructive feedback.

Thank you.

[Autotune]

http://i41.tinypic.com/1z2emvb.jpg

[Null]

Of what?

People staying around here and shitting things up? The community has called for the head of Richgirl etc many times. There is one way to resolve and silence this.

Or grey areas within these rules that were some how neglected? As Amelinda has said to others before she can kindly check her inbox. She can forward you this and discuss. I think my suggestions are nonpartisan and very constructive.

Everything I read had to do with training and intentional xp death, which I said probably needed to be reworked. Did I miss anything outside of more detail on what is and isn't allowed xp killing?

[Null]

Could you please put back up a copy of the original draft of rules, the thread has been removed. I would also like to re-read them and offer constructive feedback.

Thank you.

Amy took them down, not sure why. I will see if shes ok with me putting them back up.

[Nirgon]

Everything I read had to do with training and intentional xp death, which I said probably needed to be reworked. Did I miss anything outside of more detail on what is and isn't allowed xp killing?

Glad it's being looked at.

We advocated this long before the server started.

An open discussion needs to be had about how certain cases will be handled. Once a ruling is made on how a case is handled, make an addendum to the posted rules.

These need to be known in advance so rules can be pointed to rather than deliberated over at the time of occurrence. I'd rather people complained about the rules (there's a brand new one that is absolutely bullshit btw, guilty as charged) than complained about the staff.

[Jadian]

Heartbrand still terrible

Nirgon still delusional.

New rules changed nothing afterall.

[Palemoon]

Glad they are putting in some sensible guidelines, its needed on a server like this to promote a healthier population.

The server is about pvp. Its not about bind rushing draco to start death touch scripts while yelling "alla akbar", and its not about training imps and LDCs once a week on nagafen raids.

More pvp, less lame tacits. Thanks.

[jeffd]

it's weird that the whiniest bitches on these forums are all people who apparently don't play here.

you kids need to go outside and get some fucking sun.

[Rallyd]

So have a lot of other people.

Don't take my word for it though.

As far as crying, let me fuck you up with some truth and a reminder.

"Grey area" is introduced or exploit goes unpunished.

Our guild tolerates it for a few hours or maybe a week or two. Nothing happens, we're told by the other players to "deal with it" or "qq moar".

We take hold of said exploit or grey area and destroy what they "had going for them".

Then the real crying to the staff starts and unsurprisingly gets a result in their favor.

"Nagafen is being exploited" -> weeks of deafening silence.
Players wiped in PvP, strat stolen. GMs beat the shit out of Holocaust.

"CT rotation set off is legal deal with it" -> GMs agree.
Holocaust repeats step, new rule is created to benefit team originating the problem.

Hope this reality check was beneficial.

Ask me why I don't play here, I'm happy to go into further details regarding the above.

As far as grey areas? And the above post? Thanks for telling people what they already know, super helpful.

You should break these grey areas down. Or maybe you just like your job being harder than it has to be and people ripping on you. I don't know, its one of the two or both. It certainly doesn't help the server population, people notice.

Things were just fine with us stealing their exploits and turning them against them. Staff interaction has created a certain imbalance that is irreparable at this point. Exploited loots going unremoved for too long to create the illusion of legitimacy and used to farm dino in OOT / kill other raid targets to acquire gear etc.

Similar to how an old joke goes: What do you tell a server with two black eyes? Nothing, you already told it twice.


My response - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6U2cNu9tEM

The only reason anyone would need grand clarification on rules is so that they could get as close to breaking them as possible. That's how Holocaust has always worked, harass GM's to create a more suitable environment for their cause.

[Nirgon]

Heartbrand still terrible

Nirgon still delusional.

New rules changed nothing afterall.


Well you got one thing right.

[heartbrand]

My response - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6U2cNu9tEM

The only reason anyone would need grand clarification on rules is so that they could get as close to breaking them as possible. That's how Holocaust has always worked, harass GM's to create a more suitable environment for their cause.

I would like to stress this individual has trained us repeatedly and often suggested training as our tactic of choice for PVP in nihilum vent.

[oldfish]

There is a difference between something being technically illegal, and in practice.

In practice, i have never heard in 2 years of playing Rallos that training was illegal, as it was such a widespread and accepted part of the pvp experience.

When i started playing here was the first time i heard about any sort of ban against training on live.

I am playing against this OOR necro who is killing my xp camp and i wish i could train his ass, thats what i would have done on Rallos.

[Nirgon]

My response - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6U2cNu9tEM

The only reason anyone would need grand clarification on rules is so that they could get as close to breaking them as possible. That's how Holocaust has always worked, harass GM's to create a more suitable environment for their cause.

You, sir, are a fucking abomination.

Let's consider your change of stance of aggroing CT night 1 vs night 2:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=568634&postcount=28

I'll say that I've heard Beo was finally suspended which is a good thing. Notice how I haven't called for the head of anyone else who did it? Or insisted since he was suspended that Troriste should? Troriste acted before the rule was in place and I'll tip my hat to him.

You sir on the other hand are devoid of absolutely any credibility and I'm shocked you would try and post a defense.

I maintain a flawless track record of exposing your cheating and fibbing. Come at me bro.

[Nirgon]

In practice, i have never heard in 2 years of playing Rallos that training was illegal, as it was such a widespread and accepted part of the pvp experience.


This is ... lol... just... pffft.

[Autotune]

http://i42.tinypic.com/dzctj5.jpg

Now offering legal advice! Get at me.

[heartbrand]

Here's the real issue that it all comes down to. There's not enough people to enforce these rules, and the enforcement that exists has been incredibly uneven. Nihilum intentionally exploited dragons, logs show it, fraps show it, even a screenshot of Hughman admitting about the ongoing exploitation of nagafen, but yet holocaust was suspended and disbanded but Nihilum went unpunished.

At the time of the holocaust suspension, the numbers in each guild were farily equal, and holocaust had been pushing nihilums shit in. The suspension allowed nihilum to farm loot uncontested for multiple weeks, use said loot to progress further, recruit more people since they were the only show in town, demoralized those suspended leading them to ultimately quit. So I ask, where is the equal treatment of nihilum with a suspension as well? Where is their guild disband? Oh, that's right.

Case in point, last week, beovvulf zones in, is frapped using eye of zomm to set off DT cycle (at that time it was established that doing so was now a suspendable offense), forced us to all camp, which then brought the nihilum zerg forces in for PVP. Crazycloud trained them back, and was suspended, beovvulf was a-ok. This tactic allowed them to sit in fear and farm the entire day. Even GMing.

The other day, Skelly zones in, pulls entire temple on us, forces us to zone/camp, etc., then the zerg forces enter. We return the favor on them Xantille suspended. Skelly? A-ok. Nihilum now allowed to sit in fear and farm.

I've witnessed countless LDC trains to Naggy/FG's etc., not even going to bother going on about how ridiculous it is that Nihilum got EXP rezzes that one time and we never have in the face of Emumu train after Emumu train in Sol B. Complete joke.

I've sent so many petitions, reports, fraps, to staff with people admitting brazenly and proudly that they have trained me or holocaust but zero action, certainly not a Nihilum style CSR Rez.

I want to stress something, I wouldn't care if training was legal, I would simply adapt, adjust, etc., however, apparently it isn't if you have a holocaust tag but it's a-ok if you're nihilum, that doesn't sit right with me. The uneven ruling on this server is a travesty.

I could give fifteen more examples right now but there's no point anymore, I find myself finally agreeing with emperor cast, it's too late to wipe this shit clean, just burn it down.

[loserofgame]

The only reason anyone would need grand clarification on rules is so that they could get as close to breaking them as possible.

Well, that is not the only reason someone would need clarification on rules. For example, people who intend to follow rules might want clarification to ensure they are not breaking them for reasons other than getting as close to breaking them as possible. Honest people, for instance(of which there are many on this server, despite what the forums will tell you).

You are right in saying that there will always be individuals and groups who will bend rules as much as possible without breaking them, or break rules as much as possible without getting caught. That's true not just on this server, but anywhere. And I do not think that such people are in only one guild on this server, either.

That said, rules, if written properly, and enforced justly, are good. They can protect some aspects of player enjoyment, not just in raiding guilds but on the entire server.

However, I would think that on a very lawless server such as r99, less is certainly more.

[Nirgon]

I think it is obvious when people are trying to break the rules and get away with it (more lucky than exploit, a real knee slapper).

I also think it is entirely possible to remove almost every grey area from the rules.

Given obvious previous attempts and infractions resulting, it is easy enough to prove intent and punish accordingly.

[oldfish]

This is ... lol... just... pffft.

Yea Pfft all you want.

Rallos Oasis in 01-02? "Spectres to dock!", daily.

[Nirgon]

I know for a fact many players who were suspended and then banned for repeated training.

But please, continue.

[Palemoon]

Dont break the rules and you dont have to worry about getting suspended, simple as that. Hopefully crazycloud and xantille learn this lesson.

[oldfish]

I know for a fact many players who were suspended and then banned for repeated training.

But please, continue.

So you having heard of players getting banned for training, means I didnt see trains in Oasis in Rallos daily and that i had never heard of anyone getting banned for it and assumed it wasnt illegal since it was so widespread?

Please continue with your superb logic, mr. important serious forum person

[Morninx]

When it comes to rules for EQ boxes, the biggest fear is GM favoritism. Design rules that are not open to GM interpretation and if I were you, I would have the least # rules as possible since enforcing them is a headache for all.

Also, the rule about CT DT cycle that Amelinda put out needs to be thought about. The rules cannot favor only large guilds on a small box. Even if Nihilum has a raid force outside, they need to come in and pvp, not use their numbers as an excuse to set off CT.

[Jadian]

Well you got one thing right.

Glad you can finally admit it. That's the first step to recovery.

[Rallyd]

Here's the real issue that it all comes down to. There's not enough people to enforce these rules, and the enforcement that exists has been incredibly uneven. Nihilum intentionally exploited dragons, logs show it, fraps show it, even a screenshot of Hughman admitting about the ongoing exploitation of nagafen, but yet holocaust was suspended and disbanded but Nihilum went unpunished.

At the time of the holocaust suspension, the numbers in each guild were farily equal, and holocaust had been pushing nihilums shit in. The suspension allowed nihilum to farm loot uncontested for multiple weeks, use said loot to progress further, recruit more people since they were the only show in town, demoralized those suspended leading them to ultimately quit. So I ask, where is the equal treatment of nihilum with a suspension as well? Where is their guild disband? Oh, that's right.

Case in point, last week, beovvulf zones in, is frapped using eye of zomm to set off DT cycle (at that time it was established that doing so was now a suspendable offense), forced us to all camp, which then brought the nihilum zerg forces in for PVP. Crazycloud trained them back, and was suspended, beovvulf was a-ok. This tactic allowed them to sit in fear and farm the entire day. Even GMing.

The other day, Skelly zones in, pulls entire temple on us, forces us to zone/camp, etc., then the zerg forces enter. We return the favor on them Xantille suspended. Skelly? A-ok. Nihilum now allowed to sit in fear and farm.

I've witnessed countless LDC trains to Naggy/FG's etc., not even going to bother going on about how ridiculous it is that Nihilum got EXP rezzes that one time and we never have in the face of Emumu train after Emumu train in Sol B. Complete joke.

I've sent so many petitions, reports, fraps, to staff with people admitting brazenly and proudly that they have trained me or holocaust but zero action, certainly not a Nihilum style CSR Rez.

I want to stress something, I wouldn't care if training was legal, I would simply adapt, adjust, etc., however, apparently it isn't if you have a holocaust tag but it's a-ok if you're nihilum, that doesn't sit right with me. The uneven ruling on this server is a travesty.

I could give fifteen more examples right now but there's no point anymore, I find myself finally agreeing with emperor cast, it's too late to wipe this shit clean, just burn it down.

Once again, gonna have to give you the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6U2cNu9tEM

You lie on all fronts, I couldn't care less what you think, but for people that read this bullshit on forums before they come to play on server? Grats on depleting population with blasphemy.

[Nirgon]

idk I say lots of random shit to random people

[Nirgon]

So you having heard of players getting banned for training, means I didnt see trains in Oasis in Rallos daily and that i had never heard of anyone getting banned for it and assumed it wasnt illegal since it was so widespread?

Please continue with your superb logic, mr. important serious forum person

Just because it was against the rules on live didn't mean every time someone ran to a zone out with mobs got them suspended.

I'll tell you this. I'm sure people DID get warnings which later led to suspensions for training spectres in Oasis. Count on it.

I had a GM despawn a sand giant that someone tried to charm me into.

People who trained Kael raids DEFINITELY got suspended.

The point is, dimwit, that it was against the rules and punishments went beyond a stern talking to.



You lie on all fronts

I've heard this before!

Shortly after you were nailed for exploiting Nagafen, exploiting Vox, Supreme + others being proven to have been banned for MQ and also for trying to DDoS the server and get it shut down otherwise.

I set out and said "here's what you guys did", was accused of being a liar and then..... well, here I stand bro.

Please tell me where I've ever falsely accused a member of your guild of anything. I will humbly apologize.

[Rallyd]

Anything said in a tell to you Nirgon is a troll statement meant to piss you off, or make you quote it on forums, I win.

[Nirgon]

^

I'll say "You mad" was a troll statement when you thought you'd get away with the CT thing.

I'll say "Enjoy your bans" is a stark contradiction of your previous gloating and definitely stinks of pissed cheerios. But no one went running to the staff about it did they? Oh.

Your defense afterwards is laughable. Here's a fun sentiment, nothing I say to you is with the sole intent of trolling. I've definitely sent you tells with the intent of angering you, but that resulting anger is largely based on your confrontation with the truth and exposure.

[Null]

Case in point, last week, beovvulf zones in, is frapped using eye of zomm to set off DT cycle (at that time it was established that doing so was now a suspendable offense), forced us to all camp, which then brought the nihilum zerg forces in for PVP. Crazycloud trained them back, and was suspended, beovvulf was a-ok. This tactic allowed them to sit in fear and farm the entire day. Even GMing.

The other day, Skelly zones in, pulls entire temple on us, forces us to zone/camp, etc., then the zerg forces enter. We return the favor on them Xantille suspended. Skelly? A-ok. Nihilum now allowed to sit in fear and farm.

I've witnessed countless LDC trains to Naggy/FG's etc., not even going to bother going on about how ridiculous it is that Nihilum got EXP rezzes that one time and we never have in the face of Emumu train after Emumu train in Sol B. Complete joke.

I've sent so many petitions, reports, fraps, to staff with people admitting brazenly and proudly that they have trained me or holocaust but zero action, certainly not a Nihilum style CSR Rez.

I want to stress something, I wouldn't care if training was legal, I would simply adapt, adjust, etc., however, apparently it isn't if you have a holocaust tag but it's a-ok if you're nihilum, that doesn't sit right with me. The uneven ruling on this server is a travesty.

I could give fifteen more examples right now but there's no point anymore, I find myself finally agreeing with emperor cast, it's too late to wipe this shit clean, just burn it down.

Honest question. How did any of that work differently on live? Trains happened all the time right? How often did people get banned? Not all that often in my experience.

Here is typically how shit goes down. We get a petition, someone just trained our shit. We port in, look around, see a bunch of corpses...alright we were too late, shit typically happens pretty fast. So we hang around, keep an eye out....aaaannndddd revenge train.

[Nirgon]

Lots of things work differently here than on live, we're willing to admit that.

However, it was rare on live for one side to take every punishment while another got a pass. Moreso, equal punishments were given for equal infractions. Not the case here and undeniable.

[heartbrand]

Except they were frapped doing it, said fraps posted, but yet no action.

[loserofgame]

Honest question. How did any of that work differently on live? Trains happened all the time right? How often did people get banned? Not all that often in my experience.

Here is typically how shit goes down. We get a petition, someone just trained our shit. We port in, look around, see a bunch of corpses...alright we were too late, shit typically happens pretty fast. So we hang around, keep an eye out....aaaannndddd revenge train.

I hate making references to The Bible. But I heard that turning the other cheek works wonders sometimes when it comes to law and rules and all that silly stuff.

Only if the law is enforced, mind you...

[Null]

Lots of things work differently here than on live, we're willing to admit that.

However, it was rare on live for one side to take every punishment while another got a pass. Moreso, equal punishments were given for equal infractions. Not the case here and undeniable.

I am not sure what you are talking about. 2 Observed offenses by staff should have the same punishment, need an example.

[Autotune]

I hate making references to The Bible. But I heard that turning the other cheek works wonders sometimes when it comes to law and rules and all that silly stuff.

Only if the law is enforced, mind you...

doesn't work like that. You turn the cheek in EQ and you'll just keep gettin fucked.

Only thing that works is beating the Opfor at their own games. Be it at Rule Lawyering, Frapsing, Training, petitioning, poopsocking, PvP, ect.

Only way to get rid of rule lawyering, is to get rid of the rules to lawyer.

[Diggles]

need to make EQ the wild west

[loserofgame]

doesn't work like that. You turn the cheek in EQ and you'll just keep gettin fucked.

Only thing that works is beating the Opfor at their own games. Be it at Rule Lawyering, Frapsing, Training, petitioning, poopsocking, PvP, ect.

Only way to get rid of rule lawyering, is to get rid of the rules to lawyer.

That's not very fun.

I'd rather enjoy losing, as long as it was the right way.

I can see that years of bickering has made you too bitter to realize any other option, though.

[Null]

I hate making references to The Bible. But I heard that turning the other cheek works wonders sometimes when it comes to law and rules and all that silly stuff.

Only if the law is enforced, mind you...

Is speeding enforced? Yes.

Is speeding against the law? Yes.

Do you speed? Well, I do within reason.

If you speed do you automatically get a ticket? No, officer has to see you do it or you have to hit some sort of automated photo booth that shows your plate number.

What do other people tend to do when they see a person pulled over on the side of the road? Slow the fuck down.

What would happen if speeding laws were repealed and everyone could go as fast as they wanted anywhere they wanted?

[loserofgame]

What would happen if speeding laws were repealed and everyone could go as fast as they wanted anywhere they wanted?

Then you'd need road crews to make roads like the Autobahn, or everyone would crash their cars from the potholes.

[Greegon]

Im not sure what's so bad about this rules guys.. basically its saying, you can stun/root/snare a bard while hes kiting. But you can't train specs on a lvl 12 group, or, say, fear a frog in lower guk while its being engaged to bring 12 more mobs in. Rather, you would just have to nuke the player and hope the mob doesnt get kill so you get some plats. right..? In any case I dont get why all of you guys are training CT death touch, sounds kind of lame :/ Fight with yer weps and magic maybe?

[Diggles]

What would happen if speeding laws were repealed and everyone could go as fast as they wanted anywhere they wanted?

someone would invent the spinfusor and we'd have our very first version of Tribes on Earth

[heartbrand]

Is speeding enforced? Yes.

Is speeding against the law? Yes.

Do you speed? Well, I do within reason.

If you speed do you automatically get a ticket? No, officer has to see you do it or you have to hit some sort of automated photo booth that shows your plate number.

What do other people tend to do when they see a person pulled over on the side of the road? Slow the fuck down.

What would happen if speeding laws were repealed and everyone could go as fast as they wanted anywhere they wanted?

There would be less deaths as many studies have shown multiple times. Speed limits do nothing to help safety and in fact lead to more crashes.

But to the main point the analogy here is terrible, nihilium exploited multiple dragons (one week spawn so staff had plenty of time to deliberate between these kills) no enforcement, holocaust follows foot and is sentenced to death.

[heartbrand]

Theres video evidence and f-ing confessions and STILL the staff does not act. But oh boy a guide logs into fear and sees all hell breaking loose time to suspen holo members for two weeks.

[Harrison]

Exploiters mad they can't exploit anymore.

This is new stuff people.

[Envious]

Gotta pick your analogies better Null!

[heartbrand]

One, a train is not an exploit. Two, exploiters still exploiting without punishment hence complaint.

[Diggles]

http://i.imgur.com/3Rcsc.gif

[loserofgame]

"This message is hidden because Harrison is on your ignore list."

I'm only going to do this once, but I couldn't resist.

It felt good.

[Gongshow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEaX4ApC_EU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Autotune]

That's not very fun.

I'd rather enjoy losing, as long as it was the right way.

I can see that years of bickering has made you too bitter to realize any other option, though.

you say you'd rather enjoy losing, but what i've seen with Nilly/holo seems to be the exact same as tmo/ib these past few months.


You will either keep giving ground and losing it or you'll fight back.

[loserofgame]

you say you'd rather enjoy losing, but what i've seen with Nilly/holo seems to be the exact same as tmo/ib these past few months.


You will either keep giving ground and losing it or you'll fight back.

You are correct, those situations are analogous.

I am not affiliated with either Holocaust or Nihilum at this time.

I am more concerned with how the rules will affect the server in general. Also, because Holocaust and Nihilum are a significant portion of the server population, it behooves me to be interested in their rivalry.

Also, I am really enjoying this server. I hope you are with yours as well.

[Silentone]

Here is a thought to all you hardcore red guys. why not make raid zones like VP on blue. No fuckin rules have at it until you turn BLUE and then you will come to your own rules which can be governed by guild officers. seems the pvp server has more rules then the blue server, geezus.

[aerokella]

I think if these rules had been in place since day 1 holocaust wouldnt have scared away all the newbies with their grief tactics.

[Autotune]

Also, I am really enjoying this server. I hope you are with yours as well.

gotta love/hate relationship going on atm. It's all good tho.

I think with red, you guys do have more tools to stop trains and so forth without needing GM involvement tbh.

[heartbrand]

Here is a thought to all you hardcore red guys. why not make raid zones like VP on blue. No fuckin rules have at it until you turn BLUE and then you will come to your own rules which can be governed by guild officers. seems the pvp server has more rules then the blue server, geezus.

Many of us have requested this, but you see there are two counter philosophies, that of Holocaust and that of Nihilum. Holocaust came to this server to PVP. They wanted to engage people, grief them, kill people, screenshot it, ForumQuest, win, etc. Nihilum came here to get the loots and kills they can't get on Blue in PVE because of the poopsocking. They don't really care about PVP and only engage in it when they need to in order to obtain PVE loots. Holocaust agrees with your statement and thinks these rules are too subjective and ultimately impossible to enforce fairly. Nihilum sees that chaos as a threat to their ability to farm the loots they came here for, they didn't come here to PVP and engage in multiple hour long zone struggles, they came to get those kills, so they want rules which will allow and enable them to do so. The GM's seem to take the Nihilum approach for their rules.

[loserofgame]

Here is a thought to all you hardcore red guys. why not make raid zones like VP on blue. No fuckin rules have at it until you turn BLUE and then you will come to your own rules which can be governed by guild officers. seems the pvp server has more rules then the blue server, geezus.

+1. I like rules, but a server like this should have less rules, not more.

It certainly makes things lawless, and difficult(by and large it is anyway, regardless of the rules).

You should not have signed up to play on r99 if you thought you would have an easy time.

[Supreme]

I've heard this before!

Shortly after you were nailed for exploiting Nagafen, exploiting Vox, Supreme + others being proven to have been banned for MQ and also for trying to DDoS the server and get it shut down otherwise.

I set out and said "here's what you guys did", was accused of being a liar and then..... well, here I stand bro.

Please tell me where I've ever falsely accused a member of your guild of anything. I will humbly apologize.

You are falsely accusing me of trying to DDoS the server and get it shut down.

Do you realize how many people that play Blue99/Red99 are part of the online gaming community i manage? Over 200 players just in Everquest. Why would I (waste time and resources setting up a bot network) DDoS a game that a large part of my community plays? You also realize that EQEmulator/Blue99/Red99 is NIGH invunerable to DDoS attacks anymore?

You chose to believe the lies and half truths and then because you did not know the facts continue to try and present them as such.


I await your humble apology.

[Jontaidoe]

null great post. the rest of you should quit forumsquest and try playing this sweet game called Everquest. It's pretty fun!

[loserofgame]

null great post. the rest of you should quick forumsquest and try playing this sweet game called Everquest. It's pretty fun!

This sounds good. ForumQuest was fun for an hour, though. Maybe I'll try it again sometime.

Cheers.

[Jontaidoe]

Here's the real issue that it all comes down to. There's not enough people to enforce these rules, and the enforcement that exists has been incredibly uneven. Nihilum intentionally exploited dragons, logs show it, fraps show it, even a screenshot of Hughman admitting about the ongoing exploitation of nagafen, but yet holocaust was suspended and disbanded but Nihilum went unpunished.

At the time of the holocaust suspension, the numbers in each guild were farily equal, and holocaust had been pushing nihilums shit in. The suspension allowed nihilum to farm loot uncontested for multiple weeks, use said loot to progress further, recruit more people since they were the only show in town, demoralized those suspended leading them to ultimately quit. So I ask, where is the equal treatment of nihilum with a suspension as well? Where is their guild disband? Oh, that's right.

Case in point, last week, beovvulf zones in, is frapped using eye of zomm to set off DT cycle (at that time it was established that doing so was now a suspendable offense), forced us to all camp, which then brought the nihilum zerg forces in for PVP. Crazycloud trained them back, and was suspended, beovvulf was a-ok. This tactic allowed them to sit in fear and farm the entire day. Even GMing.

The other day, Skelly zones in, pulls entire temple on us, forces us to zone/camp, etc., then the zerg forces enter. We return the favor on them Xantille suspended. Skelly? A-ok. Nihilum now allowed to sit in fear and farm.

I've witnessed countless LDC trains to Naggy/FG's etc., not even going to bother going on about how ridiculous it is that Nihilum got EXP rezzes that one time and we never have in the face of Emumu train after Emumu train in Sol B. Complete joke.

I've sent so many petitions, reports, fraps, to staff with people admitting brazenly and proudly that they have trained me or holocaust but zero action, certainly not a Nihilum style CSR Rez.

I want to stress something, I wouldn't care if training was legal, I would simply adapt, adjust, etc., however, apparently it isn't if you have a holocaust tag but it's a-ok if you're nihilum, that doesn't sit right with me. The uneven ruling on this server is a travesty.

I could give fifteen more examples right now but there's no point anymore, I find myself finally agreeing with emperor cast, it's too late to wipe this shit clean, just burn it down.

Guess what retard, we're giving the loots back. So fuck off and stop complaining about it. We have killed vox AND naggy legit now so stop your fucking crying and getbetter loser.

[Gongshow]

http://a2.idata.over-blog.com/300x198/2/62/96/52/Lunettes/Wild-Wild-West.jpg

[Supreme]

Many of us have requested this, but you see there are two counter philosophies, that of Holocaust and that of Nihilum. Holocaust came to this server to PVP. They wanted to engage people, grief them, kill people, screenshot it, ForumQuest, win, etc. Nihilum came here to get the loots and kills they can't get on Blue in PVE because of the poopsocking. They don't really care about PVP and only engage in it when they need to in order to obtain PVE loots. Holocaust agrees with your statement and thinks these rules are too subjective and ultimately impossible to enforce fairly. Nihilum sees that chaos as a threat to their ability to farm the loots they came here for, they didn't come here to PVP and engage in multiple hour long zone struggles, they came to get those kills, so they want rules which will allow and enable them to do so. The GM's seem to take the Nihilum approach for their rules.

The problem is that when you want to "grief them, kill people, screenshot it, ForumQuest, win, etc" Holocaust wants to use ANYTHING and EVERYTHING they can to "win". Even if that means...fearing engaged mobs,training, Z-axis exploit, zone plugging, ganking and lying about PVP kills.

"for the win"

lol.

[heartbrand]

As to the analogy, here's a better one. You're driving on a 65 MPH road and see cars every day zooming past cops with radar guns at double the posted speed. You keep going the speed limit but are confused why the cops fail to pull these obvious speeders over. The speeding allows them to get to work faster, be more productive, earn more income, etc., but you keep going the speed limit regardless. Finally, one day, you decide that enough is enough, if the speed limit is meaningless, you too will drive double the posted limit so you can also get to work earlier, get home faster, be more productive, waste less time, etc.

As you zoom alongside your habitual speeding friends past the cops with the radar guns, their signals suddenly go off. VROOM VROOM VROOM. You are perplexed. They order you to the side of the road. "Sir, you are going twice the posted speed limit." You look confused and respond, "Officer, you have watched these same people speed past your road on the way to work every single day and have never pulled them over, I had come to think that speeding was not an issue that was taken seriously." The officer looks you up and down and responds, "It's a very serious issue, you have been sentenced to death via lethal injection, immediately." You shout and scream, telling the officer I don't understand, you watch those same people etc., etc., but he doesn't care. He hauls you off to the jail where you will be executed.

While you are in jail awaiting your execution, the speeders have now taken your higher paying jobs, invested in hedge funds, made millions of dollars, and now have purchased beautiful new cars. You see, they don't drive those ricercars anymore on the way to work, they drive BMW's, mercedes, etc., and not just any luxury vehicles, ostentatious ones, bright reds, yellows, etc. They continue to speed on their way to work, build properties, expand their real estate empires, and marry your sisters and rape your mothers. Meanwhile you sit in jail.

Finally, several weeks later, a judge decides to show some mercy to you and commute your sentence to time served. You return to find your jobs gone, many of your loved ones vanished, and all your savings gone. You get in your car to drive to your new lower paying job to see the same speeders as before, but this time in their flashy cars, driving past the same officer, and aren't being pulled over.

You voice your complaints to the town council, but you don't have a vote, as you don't live in a democracy, you just get to pretend to air your concerns to people who pretend to care. Finally, after being tired of being bugged by your incessant complaining, the Mayor of the town agrees to take away the BMW's and Mercedes from these speeders who had been verified via speed camera on the highway. Of course, these speeders are now millionaires and have real estate and stock empires but that's besides the point, they have been punished. Oh, and the Mayor want's that toyota 199 of yours as well. The speeders go out, immediately purchase newer, and even fancier cars than before, while you try to secure a loan with your bad credit to buy Ricardo's 1984 ford.

That's the analogy.

[heartbrand]

The problem is that when you want to "grief them, kill people, screenshot it, ForumQuest, win, etc" Holocaust wants to use ANYTHING and EVERYTHING they can to "win". Even if that means...fearing engaged mobs,training, Z-axis exploit, zone plugging, ganking and lying about PVP kills.

"for the win"

lol.

Fearing engaged mobs is also banned now??????

[heartbrand]

Guess what retard, we're giving the loots back. So fuck off and stop complaining about it. We have killed vox AND naggy legit now so stop your fucking crying and getbetter loser.

Confirmed vox still up post new ruling and NOT Killed.

[Silentone]

I'm sorry my play time on red has dwindled downt to almost like 1 hour a week. However I will say this, anyone who says they dont play for loot in everquest is either lying to themselves or just flat out lying. Everquest is all about the loot, the pvp in evequest is a tool used to self police the population. Maybe you guys should police each other as opposed to greefing each other. I dont see a reason for guild "A" with no vested interest in a raid target greefing guild "B" unless they are going to try to attmet said target.

[Null]

There would be less deaths as many studies have shown multiple times. Speed limits do nothing to help safety and in fact lead to more crashes.



Gotta pick your analogies better Null!


Alright, I think the point I am trying to make it still there, but yes its an unfortunate analogy if you jump off the rails with it.

[Supreme]

As to the analogy, here's a better one. You're driving on a 65 MPH road and see cars every day zooming past cops with radar guns at double the posted speed. You keep going the speed limit but are confused why the cops fail to pull these obvious speeders over. The speeding allows them to get to work faster, be more productive, earn more income, etc., but you keep going the speed limit regardless. Finally, one day, you decide that enough is enough, if the speed limit is meaningless, you too will drive double the posted limit so you can also get to work earlier, get home faster, be more productive, waste less time, etc.

As you zoom alongside your habitual speeding friends past the cops with the radar guns, their signals suddenly go off. VROOM VROOM VROOM. You are perplexed. They order you to the side of the road. "Sir, you are going twice the posted speed limit." You look confused and respond, "Officer, you have watched these same people speed past your road on the way to work every single day and have never pulled them over, I had come to think that speeding was not an issue that was taken seriously." The officer looks you up and down and responds, "It's a very serious issue, you have been sentenced to death via lethal injection, immediately." You shout and scream, telling the officer I don't understand, you watch those same people etc., etc., but he doesn't care. He hauls you off to the jail where you will be executed.

While you are in jail awaiting your execution, the speeders have now taken your higher paying jobs, invested in hedge funds, made millions of dollars, and now have purchased beautiful new cars. You see, they don't drive those ricercars anymore on the way to work, they drive BMW's, mercedes, etc., and not just any luxury vehicles, ostentatious ones, bright reds, yellows, etc. They continue to speed on their way to work, build properties, expand their real estate empires, and marry your sisters and rape your mothers. Meanwhile you sit in jail.

Finally, several weeks later, a judge decides to show some mercy to you and commute your sentence to time served. You return to find your jobs gone, many of your loved ones vanished, and all your savings gone. You get in your car to drive to your new lower paying job to see the same speeders as before, but this time in their flashy cars, driving past the same officer, and aren't being pulled over.

You voice your complaints to the town council, but you don't have a vote, as you don't live in a democracy, you just get to pretend to air your concerns to people who pretend to care. Finally, after being tired of being bugged by your incessant complaining, the Mayor of the town agrees to take away the BMW's and Mercedes from these speeders who had been verified via speed camera on the highway. Of course, these speeders are now millionaires and have real estate and stock empires but that's besides the point, they have been punished. Oh, and the Mayor want's that toyota 199 of yours as well. The speeders go out, immediately purchase newer, and even fancier cars than before, while you try to secure a loan with your bad credit to buy Ricardo's 1984 ford.

That's the analogy.

Your analogy is flawed because you are trying to equate Police to GM's and that GM's are all just standing around watching "speeders" break the law and do nothing. Which you know to be a lie.

You also are generalizing that everyone but you "cheats". Which by proxy i can LAUGH OUT LOUD at the Bolts you cast through WALLS in CT and LGUK every damn day.

Poor Heartbrand always the victim of injustice and tyranny....

[Gongshow]

Looks like the rules post was taken down already.

Wiki Wild Wild Wiki Wiki Wild Wild West.

Jim West.

Desperado.

[heartbrand]

Your analogy is flawed because you are trying to equate Police to GM's and that GM's are all just standing around watching "speeders" break the law and do nothing. Which you know to be a lie.

You also are generalizing that everyone but you "cheats". Which by proxy i can LAUGH OUT LOUD at the Bolts you cast through WALLS in CT and LGUK every damn day.

Poor Heartbrand always the victim of injustice and tyranny....

You're right, it's even easier here where we have confessions and fraps of the violations and don't even need the cops to witness it in the first place. Thanks for helping my point.

[Supreme]

Fearing engaged mobs is also banned now??????

Never said it was "banned" I said that it is a lame tactic used by Holocaust to try and grief people that are OOR.

The OOR system was designed so people of higher level could not "grief" lower level players...but for some reason fearing mobs is a "legal" tactic.

[Supreme]

Confirmed vox still up post new ruling and NOT Killed.

So because vox isnt dead you are going to talk out of your ass and "assume" vox was always killed using exploits?

Keep driving the speed limit.

[heartbrand]

Fearing pets is something used by EVERYONE on this server, calling it a holocaust tactic is one of the more absurd statements I've ever read on this forum, and that includes every IronLion and Steaks post.

[Null]

As to the analogy, here's a better one. You're driving on a 65 MPH road and see cars every day zooming past cops with radar guns at double the posted speed. You keep going the speed limit but are confused why the cops fail to pull these obvious speeders over. The speeding allows them to get to work faster, be more productive, earn more income, etc., but you keep going the speed limit regardless. Finally, one day, you decide that enough is enough, if the speed limit is meaningless, you too will drive double the posted limit so you can also get to work earlier, get home faster, be more productive, waste less time, etc.

As you zoom alongside your habitual speeding friends past the cops with the radar guns, their signals suddenly go off. VROOM VROOM VROOM. You are perplexed. They order you to the side of the road. "Sir, you are going twice the posted speed limit." You look confused and respond, "Officer, you have watched these same people speed past your road on the way to work every single day and have never pulled them over, I had come to think that speeding was not an issue that was taken seriously." The officer looks you up and down and responds, "It's a very serious issue, you have been sentenced to death via lethal injection, immediately." You shout and scream, telling the officer I don't understand, you watch those same people etc., etc., but he doesn't care. He hauls you off to the jail where you will be executed.

While you are in jail awaiting your execution, the speeders have now taken your higher paying jobs, invested in hedge funds, made millions of dollars, and now have purchased beautiful new cars. You see, they don't drive those ricercars anymore on the way to work, they drive BMW's, mercedes, etc., and not just any luxury vehicles, ostentatious ones, bright reds, yellows, etc. They continue to speed on their way to work, build properties, expand their real estate empires, and marry your sisters and rape your mothers. Meanwhile you sit in jail.

Finally, several weeks later, a judge decides to show some mercy to you and commute your sentence to time served. You return to find your jobs gone, many of your loved ones vanished, and all your savings gone. You get in your car to drive to your new lower paying job to see the same speeders as before, but this time in their flashy cars, driving past the same officer, and aren't being pulled over.

You voice your complaints to the town council, but you don't have a vote, as you don't live in a democracy, you just get to pretend to air your concerns to people who pretend to care. Finally, after being tired of being bugged by your incessant complaining, the Mayor of the town agrees to take away the BMW's and Mercedes from these speeders who had been verified via speed camera on the highway. Of course, these speeders are now millionaires and have real estate and stock empires but that's besides the point, they have been punished. Oh, and the Mayor want's that toyota 199 of yours as well. The speeders go out, immediately purchase newer, and even fancier cars than before, while you try to secure a loan with your bad credit to buy Ricardo's 1984 ford.

That's the analogy.

Pretty cool story but thats not how it happened :/

Also, wasn't this thread about the rules that were posted? You keep making this about a situation that has already come, gone and been handled.

[Supreme]

You're right, it's even easier here where we have confessions and fraps of the violations and don't even need the cops to witness it in the first place. Thanks for helping my point.

You are crying about how you "drive the speed limit regardless". Which is a LIE. You do all the same kinds of crap that anyone else "breaking the speed limit" does. You train..you cast Ebolt through walls, bind/sit behind zonelines etc etc etc.

Go ahead and call me a liar..LOTS of screenshots of you and your guildmates doing these things.


What do you have on Nihilum? a Screenshot to show where the bug spot was so we can petition it? LAWDY LAWD!


Sounds to me like you are mad that a)you picked the wrong guild b)you failed ingame so now you are forum warrioring c)drank too much holocaust kool-aid and forgot how to use that law degree.

[Jontaidoe]

Heartbrand, the angel from above. Had done no wrong and never will. Fuck you heartbrand, you're probably the biggest fucking cheater on this server douchebag. Get pwned more and cry about it. BTW, even with the CT death cycles yall pulled, you got GRIEFED in fear and logged off. Yall just SUCK

[Jontaidoe]

Pretty cool story but thats not how it happened :/

Also, wasn't this thread about the rules that were posted? You keep making this about a situation that has already come, gone and been handled.

Null, i fucking love you.

[Supreme]

Fearing pets is something used by EVERYONE on this server, calling it a holocaust tactic is one of the more absurd statements I've ever read on this forum, and that includes every IronLion and Steaks post.

Again you are generalizing with "everyone". I am a SK i have not feared engaged/charmed mobs to try and grief/PK people that are out of my level range.

I will say that MOST of that only happens with HOLOCAUST members. AKA Slathar,Donkee and Sneet.

[heartbrand]

Nihilum first guild to exploit dragons: Fact.

Nihilum abuses zone line in Sol B, a zone line that can only be accessible via clogging down your processor, repeatedly, with dozens of screenshots: Fact.

Nihilum was first to discover and exploit mage bolt LOS: Fact.

Nihilum was first to exploit CT DT cycle: Fact.

Thx.

[heartbrand]

Again you are generalizing with "everyone". I am a SK i have not feared engaged/charmed mobs to try and grief/PK people that are out of my level range.

I will say that MOST of that only happens with HOLOCAUST members. AKA Slathar,Donkee and Sneet.

Yes, because Wawaka/Natural/Fallen/Nerfed/Mellowyellow don't fear pets.

[Jontaidoe]

Holocaust used all those things too. Just because you do it first doesnt make you the most punishable. Fucking idiot. How did you pass the bar?

[heartbrand]

Missing the point anyway, don't give a F about any of this stuff outside of hacking/exploiting pathing, raid zones should be FFA end of story, or else threads like this will continue, one side will always be favored over another, and no equitable solution will ever be reached. The End.

[Jontaidoe]

Ya'll will be griefed off the server then. just like you are almost every night anyways.

[heartbrand]

Holocaust used all those things too. Just because you do it first doesnt make you the most punishable. Fucking idiot. How did you pass the bar?

Reading comprehension. No one said those who violate something first should be "the most punishable," most punishable not correct English, but I digress. The issue is that Nihilum comes here with their "whistle squeaky clean" B.S., when in fact, not only do they participate and use these tactics they complain about, and continue to do so, they in fact originated many of them as well. Not difficult to comprehend, try it a second time I'm sure you'll get it.

[Darwoth]

i still want real clarification on things like trade ganking and ninja looting etc in the rules.

can we at least get a hands off approach on these things that are entirely preventable by utilizing some control in recruitment, locking corpses and standard trading precautions?

[heartbrand]

i still want real clarification on things like trade ganking and ninja looting etc in the rules.

can we at least get a hands off approach on these things that are entirely preventable by utilizing some control in recruitment, locking corpses and standard trading precautions?

This is a democratic server my friend, more regulation required, players can't be trusted to lock down their own corpses, we must protect them from themselves.

Side note, is PVPing a guild while they have loot on corpses, wiping said guild, and then looting their spoils Ninja Looting? I have seen uneven application of this "rule" (I say "rule" because it hasn't been addressed), as well.

[Titanuk]

no rules or bust

Gms can go help the blue server decide who gets VP

[Titanuk]

no rules or bust

Gms can go help the blue server decide who gets VP

[Palemoon]

i still want real clarification on things like trade ganking and ninja looting etc in the rules.

can we at least get a hands off approach on these things that are entirely preventable by utilizing some control in recruitment, locking corpses and standard trading precautions?

This was answered by Amelinda months ago, its not allowed. Sorry

[Titanuk]

This was answered by Amelinda months ago, its not allowed. Sorry

no rules or bust

Gms can go help the blue server decide who gets VP

[Supreme]

Nihilum first guild to exploit dragons: Fact.

Nihilum abuses zone line in Sol B, a zone line that can only be accessible via clogging down your processor, repeatedly, with dozens of screenshots: Fact.

Nihilum was first to discover and exploit mage bolt LOS: Fact.

Nihilum was first to exploit CT DT cycle: Fact.

Thx.

Are you mental or stupid...nm BOTH.


Red99 is developed from Blue99....Nihilum discovered NOTHING first.

[Titanuk]

Pretty cool story but thats not how it happened :/

Also, wasn't this thread about the rules that were posted? You keep making this about a situation that has already come, gone and been handled.

no rules or bust

Gms can go help the blue server decide who gets VP

[heartbrand]

Notice how I only used the word discover by one of those, the mage bolt LOS, which only works with PCs, and not with NPCs. This was a known duel bug on blue with the frequent duels that involved mages using bolts out of LOS?

[Titanuk]

Are you mental or stupid...nm BOTH.


Red99 is developed from Blue99....Nihilum discovered NOTHING first.

no rules or bust

Gms can go help the blue server decide who gets VP

just agree to no rules then

[Titanuk]

Notice how I only used the word discover by one of those, the mage bolt LOS, which only works with PCs, and not with NPCs. This was a known duel bug on blue with the frequent duels that involved mages using bolts out of LOS?

no rules or bust

Gms can go help the blue server decide who gets VP

[Slathar]

her hitler hair-do is makin me feel ill

[Darwoth]

This was answered by Amelinda months ago, its not allowed. Sorry

no it wasn't amelinda gave her opinion on what she thinks (which understandably had a dark blue tint to it) and stated she does not know whether it is legal or not because rogean and nilbog did not clarify it yet.

such activity was legal on both rallos and sullon and should be here as well.

[Slathar]

so i can't fear mobs that people are engaging because it might cause exp loss? what about their pets? im supposed to tank a mage pet because to fear it would be 'griefing?'

both legal tactics on live (rallos zek)

why are you shitting up the server with rules that won't get enforced?

[Kringe]

Is speeding enforced? Yes.

Is speeding against the law? Yes.

Do you speed? Well, I do within reason.

If you speed do you automatically get a ticket? No, officer has to see you do it or you have to hit some sort of automated photo booth that shows your plate number.

What do other people tend to do when they see a person pulled over on the side of the road? Slow the fuck down.

What would happen if speeding laws were repealed and everyone could go as fast as they wanted anywhere they wanted?

Depends on what country you are talking about...
Theres this highway called the Autobahn... No speed limit, nothing enforced (less wrecks) actually considered safer than most of the U.S's Highways...

Analogy- Red99 is like a different country all in itself... Needs to be dealt with seperately and like Darwoth posted, little GM interaction unless hacking/bugs or the extreme present itself... *Thats how it was on live* you would never see a GM ever unless
A) - Training commensed for hours upon hours (im talking 30-40 corpses needing resses for 4-5hours nonstop) then a GM would come in declare who had the zone or seperate the sides and let them pvp for the rights to the zone (then the losing guild had to gtfo)... Rarely if ever did you ever see a GM intervene though.

Problem here is like many have said- There has not been a single reputable punishement for the actions of Nihilium (almost 5 weeks to remove dragon loot?) - Confirmed exploitation of said mobs from even Rogeans logs, but still no punishment, while Holocaust was suspended for 2 weeks and guild disbanded?? Seriously that type of shit will crush this community and turn it into a 60person server with Nihilum raid force equalling 70% of that population... The rest being people that login to get a kill or two or purely for nostalic reasons.


Thing is the population is already 1/3 of what it started out to be and with the rules changing daily/weekly or at any GMS discreation on the fly, it will only get worse.

[Darwoth]

didnt some guy get suspended a month or so back for fearing somebodys pet in blackburrow? if i recall the blue no pvp experience guide decided it was "training" instead of a valid tactic to not get your shit pushed in by your opponents pet.

lets get real folks, have we learned that the more rules the more pissed off people and arbirtray decisions that can easily be interpreted as favoritism yet?

[Kringe]

This was answered by Amelinda months ago, its not allowed. Sorry

Why are you still responding??

People who were former GM/Guides should not be allowed to post when in said guilds that are of topic and or discussion... The community could most certainly start to believe the main reason your guild goes completely unpunished is because of the said work/involvement you have with said people.


I believe Uthgaard outted you already on this subject..

[heartbrand]

didnt some guy get suspended a month or so back for fearing somebodys pet in blackburrow? if i recall the blue no pvp experience guide decided it was "training" instead of a valid tactic to not get your shit pushed in by your opponents pet.

lets get real folks, have we learned that the more rules the more pissed off people and arbirtray decisions that can easily be interpreted as favoritism yet?

I hate to do it, but everything Darowth says is gold and deserves being re-posted for emphasis, this man understands what PVP should be, and is a true PVPer in real life.

[Amelinda]

I posted the rules prematurely - didn't realize nilbog and rogean were still rewording a few things etc.

The fact still remains that you guys are crying awfully hard about this.

I really understand this is super important to you all. I do. To be honest I really want this server to take off and survive. But you guys have to realize we are all on the same side (except the select few of you who just want to watch the world burn. YOU can go fuck yourselves. Seriously. GTFOff of my box if you just wanna destroy it.)

I'm going to lock this thread because it's degenerated into "the gm's are retards who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

You fail to see that we GENUINALLY want you to be happy and enjoy the server. Seriously. we do. but it's like null said. Our emu servers are like a couple of free hostels in a town full of free hostels. Our hostels are much nicer and we have the pool, tennis courts and go-carts. We want you to enjoy our nice things for free but the more you shit it up the less desire any of us have to put any energy into making it nice or even keeping the door open.

locking this thread.

meditate upon my words.