Unfair Suspension

[Bowgun]

Today in Blackburrow me and a friend of mine were fighting tons of gnolls for fangs. Until today I didnt understand what pathing was but i understand it now and im sorry for breaking the rules..I honestly thought that the ledge we were using for pathing was left the way it was to be more like the original EQ.

Thaid had been pathing alongside us for awhile(not in our group) and only after he didnt get the kill on a gnoll commander that we were fighting did type in "Say" that he was going to petition. I asked him why and he remained silent, so i continued fighting gnolls. After awhile Amelinda showed up and told us we were breaking the rules, and that she was going to suspend our accounts for a week. Me and my friend tried to talk to her and tell her that we didnt know we were breaking the rules and what happened with us and thaid, but she swiftly replied with "Doesnt matter, these people told you it was an exploit."

I wasnt gonna flame, but after this incident my friend who ive worked SO HARD to get him into EQ is pretty much completely done with it, Along with six other players who i've informed of what took place. We dont wanna play a game that were gonna get "suspended" for a week from for doing something we ABSOLUTELY didnt know was wrong. I love EQ! But i'd rather they'd just ban us and be done with it, it'd feel less like im a child being given a time out. Nilbog talked about "players spreading lies and rumors and scaring away new players", THIS IS NOT A LIE. I also had three other people that were interested in trying EQ until this happened. GM staff is scaring away new players, not us. I would LOVE to see as many people playing p99 as possible but i will not recommend a server where the GM's wont investigate a matter whatsoever.

Oh also, I had my friend check this on his account. Thaid who KNEW that ledge was an exploit, was using the same exploit as us and only reported us because he wasnt strong enough to steal our kills, is still playing in blackburrow and is not suspended.

I'd like our suspensions removed(Bowgun, Bottles, Antonious). If they are taken away, me and my friends will continue to play on p99. I will also continue to recommend project 1999 to my friends.

[Hasbinbad]

Dude. Take the suspension and come back in a week. They aren't going to start making exceptions now, for you.

[Pico]

this forum isnt really for talking about eq plz do that somewhere else

[Bowgun]

Dude. Take the suspension and come back in a week. They aren't going to start making exceptions now, for you.

if they dont, im done. And so is the group i play with. Its not right to suspend people for something they didnt know was wrong, and let the guilty one just play and go unpunished.

[Diggles]

your name is so retarded i'd permaban you tbh

[bman8810]

You do realize that everyone claims ignorance. Ignorance is no excuse, using game mechanics to remove the risk of an encounter has, and always will be, an exploit; i.e. if you can path in such a way that you remove all chance of the gnoll getting to you you are exploiting.

Also, high end issues are far more complex than this one. Look at it this way, no one is going to be an exception to the rule anymore (this is a good thing).

[Bowgun]

You do realize that everyone claims ignorance. Ignorance is no excuse, using game mechanics to remove the risk of an encounter has, and always will be, an exploit; i.e. if you can path in such a way that you remove all chance of the gnoll getting to you you are exploiting.

Also, high end issues are far more complex than this one. Look at it this way, no one is going to be an exception to the rule anymore (this is a good thing).

I totally agree with you that every claims ignorance! but why not let them off with a warning first and then suspending them or banning them? why not check things out more before being so quick to suspend? seems like such a harsh thing to me when you dont know for sure if the accused is guilty or not.

[Silentone]

you did something wrong you got punished for it, if you didnt do it on purpose then just take it as a lesson learned. end of story 1 week is not that bad, not trolling u just saying....its not a bad server its not a bad game and amelinda doing whatever she can to keep the cheaters out *not saying u are*

[Bowgun]

you did something wrong you got punished for it, if you didnt do it on purpose then just take it as a lesson learned. end of story 1 week is not that bad, not trolling u just saying....its not a bad server its not a bad game and amelinda doing whatever she can to keep the cheaters out *not saying u are*

I know... I was willing to let it go before, but its just such an extreme punishment that she came to so quickly that my friend is almost completely uninteresting in playing eq again. and him playing was like 75% the reason im playing eq. and so on for the rest of my friends playing everquest.:(

[Anesthia]

Threads like this only work if you're fighting raid mobs. Try again in 50 levels.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I got killed by the commander on one of those trains on my lowbie ranger.. but i didn't petition.


Thats just part of blackburrow i figured.


Noob central expect trains xD



Be nice if they enforced trains in higher zones like they do in BB tho ;p

[Bowgun]

I got killed by the commander on one of those trains on my lowbie ranger.. but i didn't petition.


Thats just part of blackburrow i figured.


Noob central expect trains xD



Be nice if they enforced trains in higher zones like they do in BB tho ;p

this is different though. I know that we were cheating now, but we absolutely didnt know then. I wouldve much preferred a warning and then if we did it again a perma ban. rather than laying the blame on us, and letting thaid go continue to play in blackburrow of all places.

[Rachner]

You clearly do not grasp the idea of "ignorance is no excuse." I'm really not sure why you keep citing that as your excuse.

[Bowgun]

You clearly do not grasp the idea of "ignorance is no excuse." I'm really not sure why you keep citing that as your excuse.

Im believe that Amelinda's conclusion was drawn too quickly, and that cheaters arent being punished because of this. Thaid is still playing.

[Bowgun]

ugh.. im leaving the forums for awhile. getting too frustrated.

[Sickle]

Dude, you all got caught. 1 week, troll the forums in the mean time. You will be back in 6 days

[Zenlina]

its Blackburrow geez, thats like doing CB and getting suspended? Just make another toon, whats 10-15 lvls...

[Rachner]

Im believe that Amelinda's conclusion was drawn too quickly, and that cheaters arent being punished because of this. Thaid is still playing.

Actually, no he's not. More reading and less writing seems to be the common remedy for most of your particular issues. See below:

Hi gamemaser Amelinda, (nise rip off of queen amalada from starwars)
hello an goodbuy, i am so tired of petishioning and having YOU ingore everyone.
I was plaIwas playing on the project1999 server last night at about 11pm or 12pm. I was fighting icebears and goblisn and skelitons with my friend who's
name is Skyfre. We are barbirians, and shaman as well Anyway si was
any way i was fighting and got killed becuaue of your stiuid server CRASHINg
about 9 or ten times, which led to me dieng and loosing lots of expeirence.
I am aware that the server is free and thanks very much it is fun most often of the time. But it IS NOT MY FALT IF I LOOSE ECXPERIENCE BECAUSE OF YOUR SERVER CRASH!! I get very very mad at ineixperienced server hosters when they CANT HOST A SEVERE WITH IT OUT CRASHIGN WHILE I AM PLAYING!:confused:

ps i had deleveled from about level 5 too level 4, and in that porcis i l;ost ALL my spell capabilitys which fustastes me a lot.

yours uNtruly.
Tha;)id

[Bowgun]

Actually, no he's not. More reading and less writing seems to be the common remedy for most of your particular issues. See below:

...:eek: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Smyd]

If this is true, i agree fully. No point in investing time on a server where the Nazi Staff don't do the necessary research they should before suspending and banning.

Once again, if this is true, i also think that hitting the lowbie population with this is utter idiocy considering all the BS happening at raid level.

[bman8810]

What "necessary" research? He admits to exploiting mob pathing. He doesn't get a free ride due to ignorance.

[maverixdamighty]

I'm sorry but 1 week suspension for that is ludicrous. Obviously they are newer players and a warning would suffice.

[Smyd]

If i was new and i figured that running onto a ledge had an advantage to me, i wouldnt auto think "this might be a bannable exploit" .... sure it's nice to confirm such things, but if it doesnt come to mind in the form of a question, how can you possibly figure out that what you're doing is wrong?

With that in mind, if the poor sod pleaded guilty and stopped exploiting (provided he was given the chance) then it would be fine right? but an outright suspension for a new player that isn't familiar with the rules just because he isn't an insane dick face that likes to keep a copy beside him for hardcore lawyering, is very much overkill and a game killer for me.

Hell, less would be a game killer for me. Amelinda, lighten up. Especially in BB, i mean come on.

[Smyd]

Sorry if my thoughts are so disjointed and sometimes dont make sense (or if i've missed something out) just typing this out in between work so no time to edit and clean my thoughts up =p

kiss you all.

[bounky47]

You were told that it was an exploit as amelinda said, yet you persisted. Not to mention that the rule for playing on this before you even finish signing up, is to read the rules. You got off easy, and this should be in the petition forum.

[maverixdamighty]

He said the one player said he was petitioning but would not explain why, so he was not warned of what he was doing wrong.

[Smyd]

I think he meant Amelinda said that the other player in question warned him, which he didn't in reality because he was using the same exploit, which is the exact point of the rant.

She did not check to see if he was warned, or if the petitioner in question was in fact using the exploit himself, petitioning only to rid himself of the competition.

[maverixdamighty]

If the person who petitioned, Thaid, got this person suspended and then went on using the exploit once they were gone then he should have been suspended as well if not worse. Looks like that problem is already taken care of though from someone posting his rant about quitting.

[bounky47]

He said the one player said he was petitioning but would not explain why, so he was not warned of what he was doing wrong.

but she swiftly replied with "Doesnt matter, these people told you it was an exploit."

He knew it was wrong, and if he didn't then he should have or he shouldn't be playing. End of story.

[bman8810]

You guys have to understand that Amelinda is being asked to police a server that has 600+ active people on it at peak times. That is an incredibly difficult task. As such, if you break the rules, even in ignorance, expect to get a slap on the wrist (which is all that a week suspension is, seriously, if that caused your friend to quit then he wasn't going to be here long anyways).

[maverixdamighty]

Regardless his actions don't warrant a one week suspension imo. Hell even the IB/TMO raid suspensions were that length or shorter and they could still play, but not raid.

[maverixdamighty]

lol ya man. i gave up on the pvp servers they get taken down way too frequently even though i have more fun there. what are you up to?

[Hastley]

Since this is in RNF im just going to say it:

Amazing that blackburrow is patrolled so thoroughly but the millions of platinum being RMTed is ignored

[Quickfingers]

Since this is in RNF im just going to say it:

Amazing that blackburrow is patrolled so thoroughly but the millions of platinum being RMTed is ignored

And mspaint penises

[Bruno]

Since this is in RNF im just going to say it:

Amazing that blackburrow is patrolled so thoroughly but the millions of platinum being RMTed is ignored

Blackburrow is serious business bro.

[Daldaen]

So... what exactly happened?

You were using a ledge that makes gnolls take an extra long time to get to you when running or can they never reach you where you stand?

I find it funny that is considered an exploit yet...

A. Recharging items via a vendor was patched into the game even though it wasn't originally in because classic (albeit exploit)
B. Dispelling DoTs/Recourse effects from necro and SK heals is allowable, even though exploit
C. Handing in items to Quest NPC then getting invis then accepting trade is allowed to bypass faction requirements in many epic and other quests, even though exploit
D. Multiple offender MQ / ShowEQ users temporarily banned whereas some noobs in Blackburrow get similar treatment?

[Nirgon]

Just take a week and think about never doing it again.

[Lanuven]

This is fkn sad.

People getting suspended for a pathing bug in blackburrow.

Players using RMT to sell off all their loot / accounts in EC go unpunished.

Raiding guilds train each other, hold loot hostage, use same pathing bugs, or exploits to kill targets, grief server, grief staff..go unpunished.

[Zereh]

=/ Sounds like someone is so used to responding to the real jerks in-game they now just assume that everyone is that way. So sad.

[Savok]

Unbelievable. GM's need a serious reality check.

[RevengeofGio]

I'm fine with taking a hard stance on things.... but a lot more BS happens at raid levels that goes unanswered yet they smite newbies. I'm not seeing how this is good.

[Flunklesnarkin]

If this is true, i agree fully. No point in investing time on a server where the Nazi Staff don't do the necessary research they should before suspending and banning.

Once again, if this is true, i also think that hitting the lowbie population with this is utter idiocy considering all the BS happening at raid level.

[Hitchens]

Judgement in regards to OP's actions is fairly draconian, but it may have to do with drama levels reaching critical mass. Things will probably calm down. I seriously doubt Amelinda gets any sort of jollies from handing out suspensions.

[Bowgun]

if they dont, im done. And so is the group i play with. Its not right to suspend people for something they didnt know was wrong, and let the guilty one just play and go unpunished.

Im not done with eq. im not gonna play much, but i was overreacting.. its just that if were gonna invest alot of time in this game I wanna know GM's are going to investigate further on things like this. My friend has been accused of two boxing before(which he definitely hasnt two boxed), if someone told amelinda I was two boxing how much further would she investigate than that? Im not going to exploit.. I've read the rules now. Honestly im just afraid of getting super into this game, then getting kicked for something random.

[nalkin]

Bowgun received nearly as harsh a penalty as people who cheated/hacked for 2 years... lol. Sorry bowgun, next time you should try to break the rules more since it appears the penalties are nearly equal

[Savok]

I'm fine with taking a hard stance on things.... but a lot more BS happens at raid levels that goes unanswered yet they smite newbies. I'm not seeing how this is good.

[username1337]

Today in Blackburrow me and a friend of mine were fighting tons of gnolls for fangs. Until today I didnt understand what pathing was but i understand it now and im sorry for breaking the rules..I honestly thought that the ledge we were using for pathing was left the way it was to be more like the original EQ.

Thaid had been pathing alongside us for awhile(not in our group) and only after he didnt get the kill on a gnoll commander that we were fighting did type in "Say" that he was going to petition. I asked him why and he remained silent, so i continued fighting gnolls. After awhile Amelinda showed up and told us we were breaking the rules, and that she was going to suspend our accounts for a week. Me and my friend tried to talk to her and tell her that we didnt know we were breaking the rules and what happened with us and thaid, but she swiftly replied with "Doesnt matter, these people told you it was an exploit."

I wasnt gonna flame, but after this incident my friend who ive worked SO HARD to get him into EQ is pretty much completely done with it, Along with six other players who i've informed of what took place. We dont wanna play a game that were gonna get "suspended" for a week from for doing something we ABSOLUTELY didnt know was wrong. I love EQ! But i'd rather they'd just ban us and be done with it, it'd feel less like im a child being given a time out. Nilbog talked about "players spreading lies and rumors and scaring away new players", THIS IS NOT A LIE. I also had three other people that were interested in trying EQ until this happened. GM staff is scaring away new players, not us. I would LOVE to see as many people playing p99 as possible but i will not recommend a server where the GM's wont investigate a matter whatsoever.

Oh also, I had my friend check this on his account. Thaid who KNEW that ledge was an exploit, was using the same exploit as us and only reported us because he wasnt strong enough to steal our kills, is still playing in blackburrow and is not suspended.

I'd like our suspensions removed(Bowgun, Bottles, Antonious). If they are taken away, me and my friends will continue to play on p99. I will also continue to recommend project 1999 to my friends.

Rulings like this one happen all the time on P1999. Why do you think so many posts more or less like this one end up in RnF everyday?

The fact of the matter is P1999 is not friendly to new EverQuest players or MMORPG players in general. Using bad pathing to one's advantage would intuitively seem like intelligent gameplay but in many MMORPGs this behavior is against the rules. Usually on other MMORPG, where players pay to play, the player is given a warning and he stops what he is doing and goes on his marry way. However, on P1999, where there is no cost to create an account and there is no monetary incentive to keep players playing, the GMs/Devs have opted to use a shoot-first-never-ask-questions later policy. This policy was likely adapted because they believe that most players are Everquest Vets that will stop at nothing to get the upper hand, breaking rules in the process. They make a poor assumption that players are fully aware of every rule they break.

This policy does not fare well for true newbs or people who just play this game leisurely because these are the type of people who are not constantly consulting the rulebook for everything they do. In other words, GM/Devs expect you to have the attitude that "If something is too easy, it's likely an exploit". If you're not the type of player who isn't aware of what constitutes easy/hard then how are you supposed to know if what you're doing is somehow circumventing the rules?

It's sad that GMs don't take into consideration context of violations before making a ruling. Perhaps I'm off base but is it not a different situation when a lowbie group wearing newb armor slaying gnolls in BB violates pathing rules versus a level 45 fungi-wearing shaman in lguk violating pathing rules? If people here see these situations the same then wow, just wow, there are no words.

Had GM let this group off with a warning then we wouldn't have this thread, their group would have learned about pathing exploits and to avoid them, and everybody would go on their marry way. In contrast, raiders who continually violate the rules are given the same one week suspensions again and again. Where is the logic to punishments? Obviously raiders will continue to play, but applying the same harsh punishment to new players who may or may not know better is almost ludicrous.

[username1337]

Today in Blackburrow me and a friend of mine were fighting tons of gnolls for fangs. Until today I didnt understand what pathing was but i understand it now and im sorry for breaking the rules..I honestly thought that the ledge we were using for pathing was left the way it was to be more like the original EQ.

Thaid had been pathing alongside us for awhile(not in our group) and only after he didnt get the kill on a gnoll commander that we were fighting did type in "Say" that he was going to petition. I asked him why and he remained silent, so i continued fighting gnolls. After awhile Amelinda showed up and told us we were breaking the rules, and that she was going to suspend our accounts for a week. Me and my friend tried to talk to her and tell her that we didnt know we were breaking the rules and what happened with us and thaid, but she swiftly replied with "Doesnt matter, these people told you it was an exploit."

I wasnt gonna flame, but after this incident my friend who ive worked SO HARD to get him into EQ is pretty much completely done with it, Along with six other players who i've informed of what took place. We dont wanna play a game that were gonna get "suspended" for a week from for doing something we ABSOLUTELY didnt know was wrong. I love EQ! But i'd rather they'd just ban us and be done with it, it'd feel less like im a child being given a time out. Nilbog talked about "players spreading lies and rumors and scaring away new players", THIS IS NOT A LIE. I also had three other people that were interested in trying EQ until this happened. GM staff is scaring away new players, not us. I would LOVE to see as many people playing p99 as possible but i will not recommend a server where the GM's wont investigate a matter whatsoever.

Oh also, I had my friend check this on his account. Thaid who KNEW that ledge was an exploit, was using the same exploit as us and only reported us because he wasnt strong enough to steal our kills, is still playing in blackburrow and is not suspended.

I'd like our suspensions removed(Bowgun, Bottles, Antonious). If they are taken away, me and my friends will continue to play on p99. I will also continue to recommend project 1999 to my friends.

Also nobody cares if you play or recommend P1999 to friends. Many players here see more players as a liability to their chance at raid loot.

[Nakara]

I seriously doubt Amelinda gets any sort of jollies from handing out suspensions.

Really? Seems like a pretty textbook case of loser shutin who finally gets what some may consider to be 'power' and then just abuses the shit of said 'power'

[George Harrison]

Really? Seems like a pretty textbook case of loser shutin who finally gets what some may consider to be 'power' and then just abuses the shit of said 'power'

as did guineapig & uthgaard

these people are brought onto the project specifically for those qualities. Whoever does the hiring of volunteers is and always was completely incompetent.

[mbravo]

You're right. Like everything in your life that upsets you, it's everyone else's fault but your own. Surely it's more likely that the everyone who has ever enforced a rule is a dirty bastard, and you who can't follow them, you don't deserve to be punished, you're simply misunderstood. Thanks no dipshit left behind.

Unfortunately your reply is rather generic so it loses its potency.
With that in mind, there are, indeed occasions in which rules should not be enforced. Legalism often leads to problems far greater than the source.

[Diggles]

dude, what if like, we killed everyone who had aids, so aids wouldnt spread!

[George Harrison]

Lol... talk about generic replies.

Hey, listen dude. I'm sure you try really hard to seem like you think deep thoughts, but you're like the dumb chick that you keeps waking you up after sex stating the obvious about mundane things and genuinely believing they're striking new discoveries.

just awful

[Diggles]

japn?

[mbravo]

Lol... talk about generic replies.

Hey, listen dude. I'm sure you try really hard to seem like you think deep thoughts, but you're like the dumb chick that you keeps waking you up after sex stating the obvious about mundane things and genuinely believing they're striking new discoveries.

You can't use my re-use my insult, but I guess you feel like furthering my belief that you love insipid replies.

Anyways, as to your last comment.
I'm sorry you said that..

[username1337]

Lol... talk about generic replies.

Hey, listen dude. I'm sure you try really hard to seem like you think deep thoughts, but you're like the dumb chick that you keeps waking you up after sex stating the obvious about mundane things and genuinely believing they're striking new discoveries.

My name is Uthgaard and I have a superiority complex so I must belittle people on the forums of an emulation server of a 10 year old game to feel good about myself.

[Diggles]

13 year old game you fucking peasant.

[Abacab PvP Prophet]

Man, you need to buck up bitch

I got suspended every other day on P99, but I am the 1% and pay for 35% of the server upkeep like I'm some god damn troll SuperPAC so I always was able to skirt the rule of the law.

Behind every iron fist is a pandering hand, perhaps you should give me $50 and I'll hook you back in with one of my drone-like corrupt GM plants

[Abacab PvP Prophet]

I AM THE LAW

[username1337]

Now now, it's not his fault he ran out of fingers to count on.

Well at least your come backs are entertaining Uthgaard, bravo.

[bman8810]

It seems that most people here are more concerned with the relative punishment rather than the actual punishment. Personally, I don't care if you are a newb or if you have been doing this for years - if you abuse game mechanics you can expect to be punished. Quite frankly, it seems more like your ego was bruised than anything else. Once again, ignorance is no excuse.

[mbravo]

It seems that most people here are more concerned with the relative punishment rather than the actual punishment. Personally, I don't care if you are a newb or if you have been doing this for years - if you abuse game mechanics you can expect to be punished. Quite frankly, it seems more like your ego was bruised than anything else. Once again, ignorance is no excuse.

Ego? this is everquest you bacon wrapped asshat

[Nakara]

Once again, ignorance is no excuse.

Yes people should be forced to learn every pathing bug here that differs from classic before they start playing, I agree

[Hitchens]

Yes people should be forced to learn every pathing bug here that differs from classic before they start playing, I agree

More like players who know better shouldn't talk their friends who don't know any better into exploiting.

But I realize that isn't as entertaining as blaming Amelinda.

[bman8810]

Ego? this is everquest you bacon wrapped asshat

See, we all have different objectives when we play video games. Personally? I haven't had my ego wrapped up in a video game, let alone EverQuest, is quite a few years... I guess that is what happens when you graduate college and get a job.

[Truth]

this forum isnt really for talking about eq plz do that somewhere else

[Daldolma]

If the rules were enforced so thoroughly and consistently at the end-game, nobody would have a problem with this. But as things stand, end-game raiders are afforded every opportunity at self defense with infinite rebuttal and extraordinary lenience when caught en masse.

Not to mention the bustling RMT economy that nobody gives a shit about cleaning up. God forbid some group of newbies exploits their way through level 4, but the IB exodus and everyone's favorite EC RMTer may as well auction prices in USD.

If you want to enforce the rules, enforce them on everyone. Don't pick on newbies because you know they won't give you hell about it. An exploit in Blackburrow means nothing to the vast majority of the server. Literally millions of plat changing hands via RMT? That effects everyone. End-game hacking, exploits, training, ninja looting, and general douchebaggery? That effects more than half the server's population.

Issue a no-tolerance warning then perma-ban a few of the big time RMTers and the first few asshats that break the raid rules. Server will be cleaned up in no time. At the moment, nobody fears losing their account. There's no sufficient risk associated with breaking server rules.

[Autotune]

If the rules were enforced so thoroughly and consistently at the end-game, nobody would have a problem with this. But as things stand, end-game raiders are afforded every opportunity at self defense with infinite rebuttal and extraordinary lenience when caught en masse.

Not to mention the bustling RMT economy that nobody gives a shit about cleaning up. God forbid some group of newbies exploits their way through level 4, but the IB exodus and everyone's favorite EC RMTer may as well auction prices in USD.

If you want to enforce the rules, enforce them on everyone. Don't pick on newbies because you know they won't give you hell about it. An exploit in Blackburrow means nothing to the vast majority of the server. Literally millions of plat changing hands via RMT? That effects everyone. End-game hacking, exploits, training, ninja looting, and general douchebaggery? That effects more than half the server's population.

Issue a no-tolerance warning then perma-ban a few of the big time RMTers and the first few asshats that break the raid rules. Server will be cleaned up in no time. At the moment, nobody fears losing their account. There's no sufficient risk associated with breaking server rules.

IDK, a week having to level an alt or play an old abandoned toon is pretty harsh.

[Daldolma]

IDK, a week having to level an alt or play an old abandoned toon is pretty harsh.

A week for what? What did you even do to earn the week (read: 5 days) of raid suspension?

Nothing special is the answer. The end-game is allowed to get so toxic that eventually the GMs just lash out and it's invariably unfair and inconsistent. 9 out of 10 times a train doesn't get you raid suspended, but fuck you if you're Train #10. Why the entire guild? Why just a random train? Nobody knows.

The solution is to instill some fear. If you think you very well may get banned and lose thousands of hours worth of pixels for training your competition, you won't train them. And if you do, you'll pay the consequences -- not your entire guild. And it'll take you weeks to get back to a point where you can be a factor in the end-game again, assuming you don't quit.

The GMs made a decision to target the guilds, which was a mistake. You target the individuals. Nobody is taking an account ban on the chin for their guild.

[Nirgon]

You know what would prevent a whole lot of this?

Just agreeing to weekly rotations on mobs and sticking to it.

99% of problems gone.

For all of you that complain? A lot of others find this (well ANYTHING) to be worth it.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Of course Nirgon would be pro-raid rotation...

He's also Anti-Abortion too..


but he is Pro-Killing Babies.

[Silentone]

You know what would prevent a whole lot of this?

Just agreeing to weekly rotations on mobs and sticking to it.

99% of problems gone.

For all of you that complain? A lot of others find this (well ANYTHING) to be worth it.

Nirgon you say this only because you have nothing to lose. Who decides what guilds get in on rotation? how does one guild with large numbers agree to another guild with very small numbers in the same rotation. this kindergarden not everyone is going to get a turn sorry.

[messiah_b]

They're all against the rules genius.

What about giving items to players? Is that all items or all players?

[Diggles]

Tiggles is a fed, gave items to protect server