TMO raid suspension secretly lifted

[Metallikus]

Grats, your facebook trolling worked again.

[Autotune]

Grats, your facebook trolling worked again.

your guild should stick to what you're good at.

Petitioning bullshit.

[Silentone]

http://cooleys.chattablogs.com/archives/mad%20face.jpg

[Jimes]

pic related

[Xeliso]

Grats, your facebook trolling worked again.

Lol, rage more.

[Silentone]

i guess, i couldnt get the true feeling he was trying to get across: mad, sad, crying i guess yours does a better job of pulling it all togther.

[Joroz]

no need for petitions if they just get rid of the rules... Down with server rules!!! let the chaos begin.

[relapsee69]

Amelinda "I do not negotiate with terrorists. I am a friendly person and I am friends with many of you. But I am not the big pushover that you seem to think that I am. I am not going to put up with people perpetuating douchebaggery and breaking MAJOR rules and thinking that you are going to get away with it."

Way to get lawyered out of your first ruling as a GM. So pretty much your word means shit. Good to know

[Rachner]

Related: RMFT!

Amelinda "I do not negotiate with terrorists. I am a friendly person and I am friends with many of you. But I am not the big pushover that you seem to think that I am. I am not going to put up with people perpetuating douchebaggery and breaking MAJOR rules and thinking that you are going to get away with it."

Way to get lawyered out of your first ruling as a GM. So pretty much your word means shit. Good to know

[Mcbard]

We're assuming it was lifted, and that TMO didn't misunderstand something Amelinda said, or that they didn't just flat decide to say fuck the rules. When posed with the fact that TMo had 40 people in VP 20 minutes before midnight she simply replied "interesting". I'm under the assumption that somebody with the proper authority on this server would have said a little more before the fact than "interesting" and also that if their suspension were lifted it would be made public so that everyone was aware, just as their ban was.

TL:DR Slow your roll until it's sorted out, this thread belongs in RnF =p

[Lazortag]

It's not my business to say whether their suspension should have been lifted or not and I don't even have an opinion on it, but it would be nice to be informed when a raiding suspension on another guild is repealed. If the intention was to inform us soon then I understand, and if we weren't going to be informed it's not really that big of a deal, it would just have been awkward had we been mobilizing for a target, seen TMO there, thought "well they aren't going to contest it because they're still suspended", only to be surprised when they did engage the mob. In either case a guide would have to inform us that the suspension was lifted so it would be best to do it before rather than after.

[quido]

Someone should make a poll about whether or not ninjalooting a server first epic piece out of spite and holding it hostage deserves the same punishment as an unclear train after a raid.

I give props to Amelinda for doing what is right. Even if I sometimes don't like or agree with a decision, I know that Amelinda always does what she believes is right and I respect her for it. You should do the same.

Each of you should send her a tell and thank her for her efforts on behalf of our great server.

[Ereet]

I don't think I've ever seen Jeremy divert from the pattern of:

if it benefits Jeremy = good
if it benefits someone not Jeremy = bad

Seriously, you've got to be the most self serving person on this server. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but for real, you don't even try to hide it.

[Xeliso]

F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5

[quido]

I seek justice, even at my own expense. Justice is more served today than 24 hours ago.

[Razdeline]

I seek justice, even at my own expense. Justice is more served today than 24 hours ago.

Then why the fuck weren't Innoruuk logs looked at before your shit guild ninja looted him?

[bizzum]

Man why'd you post this in server chat we'd all be much more entertained if it was in RNF and had 2x as many dumb posts.

[Jimes]

Then why the fuck weren't Innoruuk logs looked at before your shit guild ninja looted him?

furious

[Ereet]

I seek justice, even at my own expense. Justice is more served today than 24 hours ago.

Also delusional.

[quido]

Then why the fuck weren't Innoruuk logs looked at before your shit guild ninja looted him?

I have no interest in an ill-gotten victory. Unlike your guild, I have no interest in looting stuff that doesn't belong to me. If we'd been told something different than what we were, we wouldn't have looted it.

Buck up, chaps. Everquest is still here for you to play. Come give us hell, bitchez.

[Xatava]

this thread fails to deliver

[baub]

Never put a woman in-charge

Especially a bi-polar retard with a dried up cunt

[relapsee69]

I have no interest in looting stuff that doesn't belong to me. If we'd been told something different than what we were, we wouldn't have looted it.
.

forgot about ninja looting ragefire ?

[relapsee69]

Never put a woman in-charge

Especially a bi-polar retard with a dried up cunt

quoted for truth

[quido]

You guys are crybabies and poor sports. You know as well as I that you deserve much worse. Buck the fuck up, wussies.

[Razdeline]

Come at me when you want lessons on how to play your class.

[Silentone]

Never put a woman in-charge

Especially a bi-polar retard with a dried up cunt

^^confirmed so mad he doesnt know this isnt RNF

[Maze513]

forgot about ninja looting ragefire ?

there was a permaban handed down for that action

[quido]

forgot about ninja looting ragefire ?

Do you mean the Ragefire at which Daliant somehow got the handin without even being at his computer? For twenty minutes?

Our member was permabanned for that and he didn't even know he wasn't supposed to loot it.

[Silentone]

Do you mean the Ragefire at which Daliant somehow got the handin without even being at his computer? For twenty minutes?

Our member was permabanned for that and he didn't even know he wasn't supposed to loot it.

^^ this

[Otur]

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/50/5082f7ea_Slow-Clap.gif

[Shiftin]

Our member was permabanned for that and he didn't even know he wasn't supposed to loot it.

This is one of the top 5 dumbest things you've ever posted, and that's a really long list.

Enjoy your server.

[Diggles]

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-09-Psych.gif

[Seaweedpimp]

Amelinda "I do not negotiate with terrorists. I am a friendly person and I am friends with many of you. But I am not the big pushover that you seem to think that I am. I am not going to put up with people perpetuating douchebaggery and breaking MAJOR rules and thinking that you are going to get away with it."

Way to get lawyered out of your first ruling as a GM. So pretty much your word means shit. Good to know

lol u mad

[Jimes]

lol u mad

lol u glad

[Seaweedpimp]

Never put a woman in-charge

Especially a bi-polar retard with a dried up cunt



lol u madder



ps great way to speak of the person whos basicly taking care of your eq needs.

[baub]

lol u madder



ps great way to speak of the person whos basicly taking care of your eq needs.

so funny that i actually chuckled

[Galvatar]

go back to RnF please kthx

[Silentone]

Enjoy your server.

bye shiftin, have fun on eqmac

you get your corpse from vp?

[Nagach]

Well bye P99. Congratz TMO on server domination for a while.

I was all in to play EQ, not just to compete with lawyering, kill stealing, mass training etc.

/wave to jeremy, stealin, necrious, eppion, seiya have fun !

I enjoyed my stay here, just not the end !

Have fun !

[Razdeline]

Server definitely taking a turn for the worse. People lying, cheating, and stealing to get anywhere. The idea of this server being a great nostalgic place is fake.

On live, back in the day it was never this bad, raiding was enjoyable, people generally had respect for one another.

Lack of CSR support doesn't help, but people not acting like they do in real life as they should online is the real problem.

[john_savage1982]

http://countercorruptionnetwork.com/images/corruption_map2.jpg

[Bruno]

http://i42.tinypic.com/28cozty.gif

[Joroz]

those leaving the p99 community should really check out the peq server. its the same thing as p99 but they started a few years before p99 was around. all the content is in and accurate up to the GoD expansion. great community there and they do fix exploitable bugs when they are found.

[teekanc]

Server definitely taking a turn for the worse. People lying, cheating, and stealing to get anywhere. The idea of this server being a great nostalgic place is fake.

On live, back in the day it was never this bad, raiding was enjoyable, people generally had respect for one another.

Lack of CSR support doesn't help, but people not acting like they do in real life as they should online is the real problem.

Guides here are lolz

[Alkorin]

It's interesting to see IB folks complaining like this when the situation has been wrenched in your favour so many times. Hypocrites much?

Stop whining. Both guilds are the same. You all bring this on yourselves.

[Otur]

http://scm-l3.technorati.com/11/02/22/27581/corruption.gif

[roks1]

Rule lawyering complaints from ib / tr... I've... I've seen it all.

[Smyd]

Why were rules ever instated in the first place??

/petition to abolish rules. Chaos > order.
Black Sabbath had it right all this time... except they didnt know they were writing about the future internet hooligans; THE MOB RULES. sigh

[Smyd]

oh yeah
/sarcasm off

[Bruman]

Can we please keep RnF in RnF?

[Swish]

This is a poor advert for the server.

[Writ3r]

Cause this server is a joke, they are too busy banning people for making sense on a forum rather than cheating/stealing/being complete idiots both in game and on forums.

[Autotune]

Amelinda says, ' Do not troll with suspension lift blah, blah, blah ' (something or another)

TMO says, ' Do not troll with suspension lift. In Fact, DO not bring it up to any other guild. ' (after all, guilds are very good at taking things out of context to screw other guilds)


AKA, not our fault. If Amelinda wanted you guys to know, she would have told you. I do believe there is something about non-disclosure anyhow.

[Alkorin]

ITT, someone is whining about something they shouldn't have known about in the first place, making it clear that at least one person has a big mouth.

[Autotune]

ITT, someone is whining about something they shouldn't have known about in the first place, making it clear that at least one person has a big mouth.

I told IB after we killed 2 of 4 dragons. I was getting multiple tells asking why we were doing what we were doing and I was answering as best I could to tell them the truth (not troll) but not give them info about our suspension lift (don't disclose)

It became increasingly close to trolling so I just told them.

[Bruman]

...wait, is this not a joke/troll? I really have no idea.

What's the point of a week suspension just to lift it later? It shows inability to hold firm on decisions - just like the "no-tolerance" rule for MEQ/SEQ that was quickly skirted back on the big cheater unveiling.

I can only guess people here don't have kids, or if they do, let their kids run over them.

Edit: Again, it's not like it was a perma-ban on raiding or anything. It was a week, seriously. Not the end of the world.

[Alkorin]

I can only guess people here don't have kids, or if they do, let their kids run over them.

Them, and everyone else that gets in the way, I'd bet.

[Autotune]

...wait, is this not a joke/troll? I really have no idea.

What's the point of a week suspension just to lift it later? It shows inability to hold firm on decisions - just like the "no-tolerance" rule for MEQ/SEQ that was quickly skirted back on the big cheater unveiling.

I can only guess people here don't have kids, or if they do, let their kids run over them.

Edit: Again, it's not like it was a perma-ban on raiding or anything. It was a week, seriously. Not the end of the world.

It was lifted 2days early. Amelinda took the time to look at both sides and ruled how she felt was right. I still didn't agree with it tbh, but whatever, I let it go.

Win some, lose some, and every now and then, break even.

[Szeth]

Yea GM decisions that affect the entire server being done without the knowledge of the high end player base was the end for me.

P99 was fucking awesome, and who knows maybe in the future it can be again. For me though, the sun has set for now.

[EQsale]

http://countercorruptionnetwork.com/images/corruption_map2.jpg

[Bruman]

Yea GM decisions that affect the entire server being done without the knowledge of the high end player base was the end for me.

P99 was fucking awesome, and who knows maybe in the future it can be again. For me though, the sun has set for now.

Sorry to see you go can I have your stuff please?

(just wanted to beat everyone else to it)

(yes I saw your EC thread, heh)

[Metallikus]

The fact that months of raid petitions against TMO were swept under the rug to lesson a burden is the most absurd part about TMO corruption. 1 week suspension secretly lifted so they can get an easy jump on targets left up in VP is just the icing on the cake.

[solodeath]

It was lifted 2days early. Amelinda took the time to look at both sides and ruled how she felt was right. I still didn't agree with it tbh, but whatever, I let it go.

Win some, lose some, and every now and then, break even.

2 days early sounds easy enough, but that allowed a clear roll of all raid mobs in VP for a guild uncontested..

[Autotune]

The fact that months of raid petitions against TMO were swept under the rug to lesson a burden is the most absurd part about TMO corruption. 1 week suspension secretly lifted so they can get an easy jump on targets left up in VP is just the icing on the cake.

lol, ours against you and IB were swept under the same rug at the same time.

TMO corruption eh?

2 days early sounds easy enough, but that allowed a clear roll of all raid mobs in VP for a guild uncontested..

Except we never should have been raid suspended in the first place.

[Harrison]

Because you guys never did anything wrong? L o l

[Autotune]

Because you guys never did anything wrong? L o l

Hmm, don't think I said that. However, I'd like to commend you on your increasing (I hope) willingness to increase your reading comprehension.

So close buddy.

[messiah_b]

What a terribly stupid thing to do. Couldn't keep up one decision against rules lawyering for even a week?!

Edit: Okay removed to give the benefit of the doubt, but this was incredibly stupid because in politics appearance is everything. No one cares about any of the backstory. All they see is one guild getting favored. It's stupid.

[Metallikus]

What a terribly stupid thing to do. Couldn't keep up one decision against rules lawyering for even a week?!

If you don't want certain players here just tell them to leave and quit with the passive aggressive guild-whore stuff of legend Amel.

[quido]

You guys are such babies.

The suspension was lifted because a train (that was probably IB and VD's own fault) is not as severe a transgression as ninjalooting a server first epic piece that definitely is not yours and then holding it hostage. I personally think there should be a much greater disparity between punishments than two days, but I am pleased that it was acknowledged that ninjalooting and being a bitch is more severe than an unclear train AFTER a raid.

It's not like IB and VD are the only people with unanswered petitions.

[Raavak]

I am truly embarrased to be associated with you guys and your cruel personal attacks over a game. This isn't even RnF where it can be sometimes expected.

[Daldolma]

I like Amelinda, but what an utter disaster of a ruling. If you are going to raid suspend an entire guild, be certain you're right for doing so. And if you're certain you're right, don't repeal your punishment early due to an excess of whining.

I don't know whether Amelinda ruled wrongly in the first place or just got fed up with whining and repealed it early, but either way, this once again sets the precedent that the rules are the rules and they must be followed... unless you break them en masse.

Make all zones VP. No raid rules aside from no ninja looting. Let the raid scene police itself so you can actually come down hard and without mercy on those who break the few rules there are. Trying to enforce civility breeds far more animosity than leaving things in their natural state.

[Mystro]

your guild should stick to what you're good at.

Petitioning bullshit.

Ok,

Stealing.. You have to understand something.. And I know this is hard for you, but this isn't your server, you don't make the rules. nor does TMO or IB or whoever.. This is suppose to be a community for people to enjoy playing a classic game with classic "enforced" rules.

It's quite simple.. Follow the rules, and enjoy the game.. Sure, competition is nice, but excessive training/making your own rules doesn't apply to this community. Were all adults here, why make everyone suffer?..

This community is slowly going downhill, and the actions of very few people are making it this way..

Thanks for your time,

[pecete]

why we dont forguet the word "clasic" and propose solutions for this server rather than trying to enforce rules that doesnt work.
My solution on a boss pop make zone full PvP with no rules against training.:)

[Banditfist]

Uthgaard was a biased GM. Amelinda has just proven herself weak andi now ineffective.

If CS would just provide some kind of feedback loop on a petition rather than let it lag. The only way is to either direct tell or do something really stupid like ninjaloot to get attention.

Kind of funny how IB was always accused of GM favoritism.

[Wotsirb401]

At least Uthgaard was spot on and would ban people and take action right away

[Autotune]

At least Uthgaard was spot on and would ban people and take action right away

Yeah, Uth was quick to ban and just as quick to correct injustices.

[DigglesVersion2.0]

Summary of thread:

Metallikus Confirmed MAD
VD confirmed BAD

[Frieza_Prexus]

I'm curious, it seems that some are suggesting that no appeals process should exist. Should this really be the case? Just allow for a moment, the possibility, that there was an error, should correction be disallowed?

As an aside, there are those of us who think that neither guild deserved suspension, and that any punishments should have been on an individual level.

[messiah_b]

I'm curious, it seems that some are suggesting that no appeals process should exist. Should this really be the case? Just allow for a moment, the possibility, that there was an error, should correction be disallowed?

As an aside, there are those of us who think that neither guild deserved suspension, and that any punishments should have been on an individual level.

Look if you hand down 1 week suspension on raiding the least you can do is ride it out. To lift it 2 days early is stupid regardless of the merits of the original ban, because now everyone knows what the top guilds have known for awhile - there are no reprocussions for being anti-social on this server - especially if you do it as a group.

[Hitchens]

What a terribly nasty thread. It's not even a disagreement about a ruling anymore, it's just people with axes to grind throwing out personal attacks.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Look if you hand down 1 week suspension on raiding the least you can do is ride it out. To lift it 2 days early is stupid regardless of the merits of the original ban, because now everyone knows what the top guilds have known for awhile - there are no repercussions for being anti-social on this server - especially if you do it as a group.

"regardless of the merits of the original ban"

That looks like a complete absolute. Do you suggest that a clearly erroneous punishment should stand even if a party is exonerated simply to send a message? It seems to me that would send a different message entirely.

[muttonchops]

http://youtu.be/HLNhPMQnWu4

:)

[Jimes]

Yeah, Uth was quick to ban and just as quick to correct injustices.

This.

There are lots of tears being shed and tinfoil hats being worn ITT. The fact is that a GM made a judgement, then later when presented with more evidence through petitions decided that their judgement was incorrect. These tears and conspiracy claims are from either butthurt IB pretending to be victims, or from people in <random guild> who don't really know what's going on anyway.

[Metallikus]

10 raid petitions against TMO that would get them suspended were ignored for months.

Our leader has been patiently waiting for justice that has never come about because GMs ignored the petitions.

All those petitions were thrown out when Amelinda had her cute coming to jesus moment and decided to suspend TMO and IB for a week as some kind of punishment. Laughable justice but at least action was finally taken.

The petitions were not even looked at. What recourse do the law abiding citizens of the server have if the cheating bullies of the server get away with murder for months without a well documented petition being looked at.

And here they are able to weesel out of a suspension early with RNF whining and facebook spamming.

This server is on the brink of losing the highly honorable players because the bully trolls reign supreme.

[Labyrrinth]

This server is on the brink of losing the highly honorable players because the bully trolls reign supreme.

hahahahahahhHAHAHAhhhh

[Jimes]

And here they are able to weesel out of a suspension early with RNF whining and facebook spamming.

If you want to make things up to make yourself feel better and dry those tears, go right ahead.

This server is on the brink of losing the highly honorable players because the bully trolls reign supreme.

laugh.jpg

[Fazlazen]

All those petitions were thrown out when Amelinda had her cute coming to jesus moment and decided to suspend TMO and IB for a week as some kind of punishment. Laughable justice but at least action was finally taken.

You raid with IB. IB ninja looting Cazic Thule should have gotten you suspended with them.

Be happy you got a free pass.

[Raavak]

10 raid petitions against TMO that would get them suspended were ignored for months.
Are these 10 as invalid as the one that temporarily got TMO raid suspended? Just because you want to believe something doesn't make it true. If you remove all your emotion and bias from the situation is your claim valid? Its easy to get caught up in the moment.

[Banditfist]

Appeal? Pfffft! We would get a ruling and then go months before implementation/results.
This decision reeks. Not saying favoritism, but Jesus make a decision.

"Don't pitch the bitch" ~Boiler Room

[DigglesVersion2.0]

Metallikus certainly you dont mean to call VD honorable? This organization is filled with some of the slimiest people i have encountered on project 1999. Your guild should wish to have outstanding members like TMO.

[Mystro]

Metallikus certainly you dont mean to call VD honorable? This organization is filled with some of the slimiest people i have encountered on project 1999. Your guild should wish to have outstanding members like TMO.

You lost bro?. RnF is >>> way

Your smartass remarks aren't wanted here.. Go post something in RnF about how bad you are at life.

[Jimes]

Appeal? Pfffft! We would get a ruling and then go months before implementation/results.
This decision reeks. Not saying favoritism, but Jesus make a decision.

"Don't pitch the bitch" ~Boiler Room

More examples of people chiming in that have no idea what's going on.

Were you listening to The Dude's story, Donny?
What?
Were you listening to The Dude's story?
I was bowling.
So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

[Alarti0001]

Do you mean the Ragefire at which Daliant somehow got the handin without even being at his computer? For twenty minutes?

Our member was permabanned for that and he didn't even know he wasn't supposed to loot it.

This begs the question, why wasn't Perun permabanned

[Szeth]

Perma ban him and Jeremy or Zeelot to keep the tables even. Tortue was hardly a loss so it isnt fair to say that he was your permaban.

[Alarti0001]

The fact that months of raid petitions against TMO were swept under the rug to lesson a burden is the most absurd part about TMO corruption. 1 week suspension secretly lifted so they can get an easy jump on targets left up in VP is just the icing on the cake.

The fact that VD wasn't raid suspended, along with IB is terrible. The suspension was lifted because we never got to argue our case.... and when we did we had enough evidence to exonerate ourselves. The only thing maligned about this whole thing is that we were suspended at all, VD didn't share in the same fate as IB (even though they raid together) and Perun wasn't permabanned like other plooters in the recent past.

Basically, stfu until you have evidence. Because, WE DO! =)

[Szeth]

post evidence then. I am bored at work would love some more fuel for the fire

[Alarti0001]

Uthgaard was a biased GM. Amelinda has just proven herself weak andi now ineffective.

If CS would just provide some kind of feedback loop on a petition rather than let it lag. The only way is to either direct tell or do something really stupid like ninjaloot to get attention.

Kind of funny how IB was always accused of GM favoritism.

IB was hardy biased, he banned/suspended people from all guilds. Ib was accused of GM favoritism because they had 2-3 gms in their guild, and many other real life friends of Rogean. People like Eashan who duo boxed since he started playing here got free passes... and bragged about them in tells.

[Diggles]

Metallikus certainly you dont mean to call VD honorable? This organization is filled with some of the slimiest people i have encountered on project 1999. Your guild should wish to have outstanding members like TMO.

If you're going to copy me realize I keep RnF in RnF

[Metallikus]

The fact that VD wasn't raid suspended, along with IB is terrible. The suspension was lifted because we never got to argue our case.... and when we did we had enough evidence to exonerate ourselves. The only thing maligned about this whole thing is that we were suspended at all, VD didn't share in the same fate as IB (even though they raid together) and Perun wasn't permabanned like other plooters in the recent past.

Basically, stfu until you have evidence. Because, WE DO! =)

Proper channels of recourse are to make a petition in the petition section.

These channels have been ignored.

TMO's channels of recourse, RNF & facebook.

These channels are responded to immediately.

Does every guild have personal access to the lead GM? No

Amelinda editing here: the fact is that YES every guild on this server has access to me and access to my facebook that is connected to my phone if they know where to look and send a PM. but there are people in every guild who have a way to contact me if things go bad. EVEN SOMEONE IN VESICA DEI. SO quit acting like a baby.

Corrupted BS at its finest.

[Alarti0001]

10 raid petitions against TMO that would get them suspended were ignored for months.

Our leader has been patiently waiting for justice that has never come about because GMs ignored the petitions.

All those petitions were thrown out when Amelinda had her cute coming to jesus moment and decided to suspend TMO and IB for a week as some kind of punishment. Laughable justice but at least action was finally taken.

The petitions were not even looked at. What recourse do the law abiding citizens of the server have if the cheating bullies of the server get away with murder for months without a well documented petition being looked at.

And here they are able to weesel out of a suspension early with RNF whining and facebook spamming.

This server is on the brink of losing the highly honorable players because the bully trolls reign supreme.

VD petitions every time they stub a toe. Sorry TMO didn't put that rock there.

[Autotune]

Proper channels of recourse are to make a petition in the petition section.

These channels have been ignored.

TMO's channels of recourse, RNF & facebook.

These channels are responded to immediately.

Does every guild have personal access to the lead GM? No

Corrupted BS at its finest.

Me, Nilbog and Rogean have breakfast cooked by Amelinda everyday bro. You should give up on p99

[Metallikus]

IB was hardy biased, he banned/suspended people from all guilds. Ib was accused of GM favoritism because they had 2-3 gms in their guild, and many other real life friends of Rogean. People like Eashan who duo boxed since he started playing here got free passes... and bragged about them in tells.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

IB had pocket GMs, so now to make it fair you have a pocket GM?
GTFO

[Frieza_Prexus]

Does every guild have personal access to the lead GM? No

Corrupted BS at its finest.

I cannot speak to every member, but TMO instituted a blanket prohibition on any non-officer contacting the GMs on this matter, and our appeal was submitted in the form of a brief in the petition forum.

[Alarti0001]

Metallikus certainly you dont mean to call VD honorable? This organization is filled with some of the slimiest people i have encountered on project 1999. Your guild should wish to have outstanding members like TMO.

During hackathon 2012 when all the de-levels and suspensions were handed out for MQ and SEQ who were the two guilds on top with suspensions? Oh, IB, and VD....ya we are slimy. The two lowest guilds? Divinity and TMO.

[DigglesVersion2.0]

You lost bro?. RnF is >>> way

Your smartass remarks aren't wanted here.. Go post something in RnF about how bad you are at life.

AWWWWW how cute, a baddie is mad at me. go back to suckling at IBs teat pal

[messiah_b]

"regardless of the merits of the original ban"

That looks like a complete absolute. Do you suggest that a clearly erroneous punishment should stand even if a party is exonerated simply to send a message? It seems to me that would send a different message entirely.

Look it's not a life without parole situation here. There wasn't a single ban that I am aware of.

It was a 1 week suspension on a free server. I'm not going to give my kid a process of appeals when I tell them they can't have soda for a week. If I ground them til their 18 then I would expect it to be reviewed at some point.

Use some common sense.

[Nirgon]

Here's a great thread designed to get GMs to stop caring about what you have to say.

[Autotune]

Here's a great thread designed to get GMs to stop caring about what you have to say.

[Rusl]

During hackathon 2012 when all the de-levels and suspensions were handed out for MQ and SEQ who were the two guilds on top with suspensions? Oh, IB, and VD....ya we are slimy. The two lowest guilds? Divinity and TMO.

Rofl you had just as many suspended as we did, Rogean said so himself.

[Frieza_Prexus]

It seems like common sense, to me, that if eating a 1 week ban should be a no big deal, then it should be no big deal when it is lifted.

Obviously this is not the case.

I'm not going to give my kid a process of appeals when I tell them they can't have soda for a week

I ask again: If a punishment is erroneous, should it be allowed to stand?

To me, the answer is clearly no.

[Rusl]

@Nirron your assuming they care already. The past 8 or so months is more than enough proof that they give 0 fucks.

[Alarti0001]

Rofl you had just as many suspended as we did, Rogean said so himself.

Lies, you had double digits more people suspended.

[Ele]

Rofl you had just as many suspended as we did, Rogean said so himself.

A major difference was TMO booted all players caught up in Hackathon :: IB reinvited, power leveled, and made some of those caught officers.

[Banditfist]

Alarti calling someone a liar? Is this the first time you have ever posted something not in RnF? Credibility=0l

[Motec]

It was fun guys. Best of luck to you all.

[Daldolma]

It seems like common sense, to me, that if eating a 1 week ban should be a no big deal, then it should be no big deal when it is lifted.

Obviously this is not the case.



I ask again: If a punishment is erroneous, should it be allowed to stand?

To me, the answer is clearly no.

The point is that an erroneous punishment as all-encompassing and harsh as a full week raid suspension should never be levied without irrefutable and definite evidence. This should not be a situation where an appeals process is necessary or warranted -- if such a harsh action is to be taken, the punishment must be inarguably justified.

What Amelinda did was throw out months worth of petitions and say "look: things have gotten so ugly and so unbearable that you're all taking a week in time-out to think about what you did, and that's that. We'll never look back again, and we'll start fresh afterwards."

Ok. Seems harsh, but heck, if things really were that ridiculous at the end-game, then go for it -- send everyone to time out for a week. Not really a bad idea, IMO.

The problem is that Amelinda is now going back and saying "No -- actually, things weren't that bad all around. It wasn't everyone. It was only IB, I was mistaken." Obviously, that's going to infuriate IB after the verdict had been reached that both parties beared some blame, both would take equal time away, and nothing from the past would move forward. You can't say we're starting fresh and not looking back, then re-evaluate and overturn a prior decision. It doesn't make sense.

This situation was butchered. If you're going to raid suspend them both, you need to be justified in doing it and you need to stick to your guns once you do. I don't know which part of that equation fell through -- either she wasn't justified in suspending TMO in the first place, or she failed to stick to her guns -- but either way, the way this played out was highly unfair to just about everyone.

[Splorf22]

Look if TMO wants to argue that their raid suspension was wrong/misguided, fine. I've never seen the video, and I wasn't there, so I can't judge.

But I hope Amelinda realizes that she has just totally sabotaged her credibility with everyone now. Repealing the ban was already a bad idea. What happened to "it's time for the raiding guilds to take me seriously?" Well no one is going to take you seriously when you flip-flop on your decisions based on facebook posts, and then try to hide this by telling TMO to keep it quiet.

If you want a decent raiding community on P1999, you need to do:
1] Zonewide shouts on first aggro
2] Periodic server repops every ~2 weeks
3] Full variance: give every raid mob a 1/N chance to spawn every tick thus eliminating poopsocking
4] "Raid Guild Petition forum" where each guildleader gets a maximum of 2 petitions per week, fraps is required, EVERYONE can see the evidence, and EVERY petition is answered.
5] Actual consistency with enforcing decisions.

[Szeth]

Raid disputes will all but disappear within 3 months. Heard it here first.

[Autotune]

where was all this outrage when IBs suspension got reduced to a week? eh?

ours reduced by 2days lol.

anyhow, you retards can keep derpin this thread up.

[Kassel]

Raiding will all but disappear within 3 months. Heard it here first.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Oh, I agree the situation is quite unfortunate. I think neither guild should have been suspended, and any punishments should have been on an individual level.

This should not be a situation where an appeals process is necessary or warranted -- if such a harsh action is to be taken, the punishment must be inarguably justified.


"Should not" and "is not" are two entirely separate things. Ideally all punishments would be justified, but this is never possible in reality. This is like saying "everyone in jail deserves to be there."

Obviously the stakes are far lower here, but the principle holds all the same.

[Nirgon]

But I hope Amelinda realizes that she has just totally sabotaged her credibility with everyone now.

God I wish I could GM this blue server.

You wouldn't think just twice but three times before acting like this.

I would be beating the shit out of people.

[Raavak]

I've never seen the video, and I wasn't there, so I can't judge.

Repealing the ban was already a bad idea.

If TMO was wrongly accused why should they be punished?

Oh, I agree the situation is quite unfortunate. I think neither guild should have been suspended, and any punishments should have been on an individual level.

[Daldolma]

Look if TMO wants to argue that their raid suspension was wrong/misguided, fine. I've never seen the video, and I wasn't there, so I can't judge.

But I hope Amelinda realizes that she has just totally sabotaged her credibility with everyone now. Repealing the ban was already a bad idea. What happened to "it's time for the raiding guilds to take me seriously?" Well no one is going to take you seriously when you flip-flop on your decisions based on facebook posts, and then try to hide this by telling TMO to keep it quiet.

If you want a decent raiding community on P1999, you need to do:
1] Zonewide shouts on first aggro
2] Periodic server repops every ~2 weeks
3] Full variance: give every raid mob a 1/N chance to spawn every tick thus eliminating poopsocking
4] "Raid Guild Petition forum" where each guildleader gets a maximum of 2 petitions per week, fraps is required, EVERYONE can see the evidence, and EVERY petition is answered.
5] Actual consistency with enforcing decisions.

Or just actually live up to the purpose statement of the server and be classic.

I don't know what server you all played on, but on Quellious, when we petitioned about getting trained in NToV, here was the GM response:

There was no play nice policy, the GMs didn't mediate every dispute, they didn't try to micromanage every encounter. I understand why the GMs here are trying to enforce a play nice policy, but it's simply unattainable. You have 200 people that all want the same thing and most are willing to lie, cheat, and grief their way to getting it. Every loophole, every weakness, every gray area will be exploited. It's never going to end. And in the process, you're going to completely neglect the rest of the server because you're so busy with the raiding scene.

Let them train, let them KS, let them compete. It'll be miserable for everyone for 2 weeks, and then they'll all come to civil agreements because nobody wants to spend 8 hours CRing. Let them police each other.

Spend your time going after RMTers and helping resolve run-of-the-mill petitions instead.

[Splorf22]

If TMO was wrongly accused why should they be punished?

Hmm that kinda disappeared in the editing but what I wanted to say was that the best approach would have been 'oh well, suck it up for 48 hours and try not to be in so many petitions' but if she had posted the video on the forums, why she decided it was worth of a ban, and why she changed her mind, I could respect that. But doing this in secret and then attempting to cover it up is just terrible.

[Jimes]

Oh, I agree the situation is quite unfortunate. I think neither guild should have been suspended, and any punishments should have been on an individual level.

That's situational. If the people in charge and running the raids are violating basic server rules by cheating/ninja looting/etc, then the guild shouldn't be raiding until major internal changes are made. If it was random_rogue_01 from the guild that was committing the violations, then that would be a different story.

[Splorf22]

Or just actually live up to the purpose statement of the server and be classic.

I don't know what server you all played on, but on Quellious, when we petitioned about getting trained in NToV, here was the GM response:

There was no play nice policy, the GMs didn't mediate every dispute, they didn't try to micromanage every encounter. I understand why the GMs here are trying to enforce a play nice policy, but it's simply unattainable. You have 200 people that all want the same thing and most are willing to lie, cheat, and grief their way to getting it. Every loophole, every weakness, every gray area will be exploited. It's never going to end. And in the process, you're going to completely neglect the rest of the server because you're so busy with the raiding scene.

Let them train, let them KS, let them compete. It'll be miserable for everyone for 2 weeks, and then they'll all come to civil agreements because nobody wants to spend 8 hours CRing. Let them police each other.

Spend your time going after RMTers and helping resolve run-of-the-mill petitions instead.

I'm quite ok with this. And I agree; it'll be nasty as hell for 2 weeks and then people will come to an agreement. But right now we have server rules that are selectively and secretly enforced. So either we need transparency and consistency, or no rules.

[Kassel]

Or just actually live up to the purpose statement of the server and be classic.

I don't know what server you all played on, but on Quellious, when we petitioned about getting trained in NToV, here was the GM response:

There was no play nice policy, the GMs didn't mediate every dispute, they didn't try to micromanage every encounter. I understand why the GMs here are trying to enforce a play nice policy, but it's simply unattainable. You have 200 people that all want the same thing and most are willing to lie, cheat, and grief their way to getting it. Every loophole, every weakness, every gray area will be exploited. It's never going to end. And in the process, you're going to completely neglect the rest of the server because you're so busy with the raiding scene.

Let them train, let them KS, let them compete. It'll be miserable for everyone for 2 weeks, and then they'll all come to civil agreements because nobody wants to spend 8 hours CRing. Let them police each other.

Spend your time going after RMTers and helping resolve run-of-the-mill petitions instead.

I played on quellious and there was a GM enforced rotation in NTOV after weeks of bitching between Lotus cult and Vis Maior. Ya thats right a GM enforced rotation on live, in the classic trilogy period.

[Daldolma]

Oh, I agree the situation is quite unfortunate. I think neither guild should have been suspended, and any punishments should have been on an individual level.



"Should not" and "is not" are two entirely separate things. Ideally all punishments would be justified, but this is never possible in reality. This is like saying "everyone in jail deserves to be there."

Obviously the stakes are far lower here, but the principle holds all the same.

No, the principle doesn't hold. They have logs here, there are fraps, everything can be documented in a highly controlled environment. If every crime occurred between the same two gangs, on video camera, and within a 12-block radius, there wouldn't be any reason for an appeals process. They're not policing an entire country with a hundred thousand different laws, they're policing a few zones in a video game with 3 or 4 rules that warrant suspension. Unlike in the real world, certainty is not only possible, it should be requisite for such a large-scale punishment.

If you're not sure, you don't make the call for a guild-wide raid suspension. If you are sure, you don't change your mind just because you're being harassed.

[Jimes]

IB leadership blatantly ninja loots a boss corpse after they wiped twice and get a 2 week suspension, which is reduced by an entire week. Why were you all not blowing up the forums over that?

[tekniq]

God I wish I could GM this blue server.

You wouldn't think just twice but three times before acting like this.

I would be beating the shit out of people.

here you go http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

[Raavak]

'oh well, suck it up for 48 hours and try not to be in so many petitions'I sucked it up for 120 hours for doing nothing wrong.

[Perun]

IB leadership blatantly ninja loots a boss corpse after they wiped twice and get a 2 week suspension, which is reduced by an entire week. Why were you all not blowing up the forums over that?

Because vd is my children they wouldnt go and do that..

[Daldolma]

I played on quellious and there was a GM enforced rotation in NTOV after weeks of bitching between Lotus cult and Vis Maior. Ya thats right a GM enforced rotation on live, in the classic trilogy period.

It was more than weeks before the rotation went into effect, and it was only GM-enforced in that the GMs enforced the agreement that VM and LC came to. Both guilds scrapped and clawed in NToV until the GMs demanded they come to an agreement or get booted out of NToV. They agreed on a rotation and the GMs "enforced" it, although I can't remember an instance when there was an attempt to break the agreement. FWIW, that agreement lasted into Luclin and beyond.

I'd be fine with that, too, but I was getting at the early days of NToV on Quellious. There were no rules, and it was fun as hell.

[Once]

So whats with all this high level gear being sold on EC suddenly?

[Splorf22]

I sucked it up for 120 hours for doing nothing wrong.

Wow, way to quote out of context. As I said 90% of my problem was the manner in which things were handled [facebook posts, secret meetings] rather than the actual decisions. and if I were Amelinda I would make my decisions final for the simple reason that I wouldn't want to be listening to appeals all the time.

FWIW, I think the original ban was handled poorly too for the simple reason that TMO didn't get a chance to respond. Which is why I feel we need a PUBLIC petition forum, where only guildleaders can post etc etc.

[Frieza_Prexus]

No, the principle doesn't hold. They have logs here, there are fraps, everything can be documented in a highly controlled environment. If every crime occurred between the same two gangs, on video camera, and within a 12-block radius, there wouldn't be any reason for an appeals process. They're not policing an entire country with a hundred thousand different laws, they're policing a few zones in a video game with 3 or 4 rules that warrant suspension. Unlike in the real world, certainty is not only possible, it should be requisite for such a large-scale punishment.

If you're not sure, you don't make the call for a guild-wide raid suspension. If you are sure, you don't change your mind just because you're being harassed.

We submitted our own evidence and matched it up with the other submission to verify it. This was enough to make a difference. You're assuming perfect information exists. That is fallacious.

You're disallowing the possibility of error. The principle I cited absolutely does transfer. To use my previous example: this is a reason superior courts exist in the real world. Error can creep into a ruling at any level, and lack of corrective procedure is manifestly unjust.

Would you happily submit to a punishment that you believed, in good faith, to be erroneous?

I suspect you would not.

[Bruman]

So whats with all this high level gear being sold on EC suddenly?

Apparently some IB members are "done" with the server, like Szeth and maybe Motec, at the least.

If you mean over the past few weeks, it's because epics are replacing some high end gear, plus raid gear saturation has finally hit. After a year of farming the same content, I think bank alts are finally filling up.

[relapsee69]

So whats with all this high level gear being sold on EC suddenly?

IB leaving to play on eqmac

[Gwence]

I've been here since basically the beginning of the server so I think I'm qualified to say this.

Cyrius was the only non-bias, well informed, EQ intelligent, GM this server has ever seen.

Big mistake running him off


Amelinda is probably a nice person and all, but it's clear she knows very little about EQ raids..

Uthgaard was also pretty unclear in EQ raid mechanics from my dealings with him in plane of sky release, he obviously has an extreme hatred for xzerion/eashan even though they have only ever helped this server.


cyrius had the whole package, extensive EQ knowledge, un-bias etc etc..

[Perun]

I've been here since basically the beginning of the server so I think I'm qualified to say this.

Cyrius was the only non-bias, well informed, EQ intelligent, GM this server has ever seen.

Big mistake running him off


Amelinda is probably a nice person and all, but it's clear she knows very little about EQ raids..

Uthgaard was also pretty unclear in EQ raid mechanics from my dealings with him in plane of sky release, he obviously has an extreme hatred for xzerion/eashan even though they have only ever helped this server.


cyrius had the whole package, extensive EQ knowledge, un-bias etc etc..

Come on babe you know as well as I do xerion and eashan follow the same code as me... Hack to the MAX yeaaa boy

[Diggles]

Cyrius? Are you fucking kidding me? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Diggles]

http://i.imgur.com/GJskk.jpg

[SamwiseRed]

Join Red and battle it out. Problem solved, may the best man err best train win!

[Raavak]

Wow, way to quote out of context.
Sorry bro, I guess that's just how I feel about what went down. No offense intended.
FWIW, I think the original ban was handled poorly too for the simple reason that TMO didn't get a chance to respond. Which is why I feel we need a PUBLIC petition forum, where only guildleaders can post etc etc.
I think there is a forum, for discussion anyway?

[Raavak]

Join Red and battle it out. Problem solved, may the best man err best train win!
Not to derail the thread, but didn't Uthgaard make PoH or something PvP during some squabble in the past? I missed that one...

Then another squabble, in PoH, he DT'd all the players in the zone. I didn't miss that one ;)

[Xanthias]

I think there is a forum, for discussion anyway?

Ya the raid dispute one...

And on a side note, why hasn't this thread been moved to RnF yet?

[Flunklesnarkin]

GM DTing everybody sounds like internet justice to me.

[Banditfist]

Ya the raid dispute one...

And on a side note, why hasn't this thread been moved to RnF yet?

GMs ignoring something else?

[Boombha]

All they see is one guild getting favored. It's stupid.

You can say this when IB's suspension was reduced from 14 days to 7.

So TMO got 2 days off, big deal.

What it shows me is that the GM is willing to take new information and apply it to her decisions. TMO was raid suspended after seeing 1 side of the story. Once TMO appealed, both sides were seen and the GM's decision was altered.

[Craigmandu]

You can say this when IB's suspension was reduced from 14 days to 7.

So TMO got 2 days off, big deal.

What it shows me is that the GM is willing to take new information and apply it to her decisions. TMO was raid suspended after seeing 1 side of the story. Once TMO appealed, both sides were seen and the GM's decision was altered.

Then why the need for secrecy? Why not publicly disclose on the forum as a GM that the ban was lifted and why it was? If something needs to be kept "secret" you can bet there is more to it than that.

[Frieza_Prexus]

That can only be answered by the GM staff. TMO chose to sit on it for obvious tactical reasons.

[Bruman]

What I don't like is immediately after the raid suspension was lifted, training and other nonsense immediately commenced in Sol B.

[Hitchens]

Perhaps the desire to keep it quiet was merely a misguided attempt to avoid a shitstorm rather than anything sinister.

[Craigmandu]

Perhaps the desire to keep it quiet was merely a misguided attempt to avoid a shitstorm rather than anything sinister.

Perhaps it wasn't......

The truth is, when you try to hide something like this, regardless of your intentions the worst scenario is what people will gravitate to.

Without comment from the GM or show of the new "evidence" that supported the reduction, what else should the community take from it? Not, what else should 1 or 2 guilds take from it, but the entire community.

[Alkorin]

Perhaps the desire to keep it quiet was merely a misguided attempt to avoid a shitstorm rather than anything sinister.

Not misguided, intentional. They were told to keep it to themselves and not troll IB/others. This has been explained. Page 6.

[Hitchens]

I try not to attribute malice to incompetence unless given a reason to.

[Hitchens]

Not misguided, intentional. They were told to keep it to themselves and not troll IB/others. This has been explained. Page 6.

Oh, I wasn't saying anything was done by mistake. By misguided I meant that the desire to keep it quiet to avoid a shitstorm actually accomplished the opposite.

[Jimes]

Still wondering where all the forum raging was when IB got an entire week off of their suspension when they were 100% guilty of ninja looting. No new fraps or logs were brought to the table to prove that they didn't ninja.

[Flunklesnarkin]

GM's not personally informing you of the reduced suspension =/= Secret


either way I do feel GM's are way too lenient here... GM's let raiding guilds walk all over them and the rules.

[Craigmandu]

Still wondering where all the forum raging was when IB got an entire week off of their suspension when they were 100% guilty of ninja looting. No new fraps or logs were brought to the table to prove that they didn't ninja.

How do you know this? How do you know it wasn't "secret" like this was? That should have been made public just like this should have been. Again, it is the authorities responsibility to inform the community when they make changes to publicly declared decisions. It's okay to change it, and it could very well be warranted, just be transparent about it.

[Boombha]

But right now we have server rules that are selectively and secretly enforced. So either we need transparency and consistency, or no rules.

We can't say if they were selective because we will never know the full story. We will only know one guild side, and what the other guild thinks their side is. We will never know everything, so to say it's selective is just nonsense.

So that can be fixed by it not being secret? So, then we put every dispute on the forums and let everyone here have their million and one opinions and then let everyone here be the jury and then perhaps a poll for the judging? That's equally nonsense. Nothing is ever cut and dry/ black and white. Everyone can see the same evidence and come to different conclusions. It would be chaos to do all of that on the open forums.

[solodeath]

the suspension should of stayed, these guys are douches

[Hitchens]

GM's not personally informing you of the reduced suspension =/= Secret

Don't really understand this myself either. I can't think of too many games that will discuss disciplinary actions with players. Perhaps a precedent had already been set here, but if so I'm not sure it's a very good one.

[Flunklesnarkin]

How do you know this? How do you know it wasn't "secret" like this was? That should have been made public just like this should have been. Again, it is the authorities responsibility to inform the community when they make changes to publicly declared decisions. It's okay to change it, and it could very well be warranted, just be transparent about it.


Thats an interesting concept.


Public humiliation might help people see how much work the GM's actually do on bans.



Maybe make a thread where it lists a persons in game name(s), offense, and penalty/punishment.


I know other games have done that before and you can see just who the worst offenders are easily.

[Jimes]

How do you know this? How do you know it wasn't "secret" like this was? That should have been made public just like this should have been. Again, it is the authorities responsibility to inform the community when they make changes to publicly declared decisions. It's okay to change it, and it could very well be warranted, just be transparent about it.

The reduction of IB's suspension wasn't secret.

[Boombha]

Maybe make a thread where it lists a persons in game name(s), offense, and penalty/punishment.

Like in the newspapers :)

Decisions are not up for public debate, but once they are made, a listing is made for all to see.

[Banditfist]

The reduction of IB's suspension wasn't secret.

How do you know it wasn't increased? Fuckstick!

[Raavak]

Oh, I wasn't saying anything was done by mistake. By misguided I meant that the desire to keep it quiet to avoid a shitstorm actually accomplished the opposite.
Yeah, but I bet it would have happened in either case. /shrug


Like in the newspapers

Decisions are not up for public debate, but once they are made, a listing is made for all to see.

From Amelinda's post here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65277) it would seem there is some sort of non disclosure rule about stuff the GMs follow.

[Jimes]

How do you know it wasn't increased? Fuckstick!

This game of "what if" is pretty retarded. The GM's made a public announcement on this stuff. IB confirmed ninja looted CT. 2 week suspension was handed out. 1 week was taken off, and you peasants on the forums were pretty much silent about it.

[Hitchens]

Yeah, but I bet it would have happened in either case. /shrug

I agree.

[Craigmandu]

From Amelinda's post here it would seem there is some sort of non disclosure rule about stuff the GMs follow.

Since the punishment was documented as such, regardless of the last paragraph about "non-disclosure of account information policy" that post should have been replied to or edited and the reduction of 2 days explained in the same fashion as the original reduction of 1 week was explained.

[Banditfist]

This game of "what if" is pretty retarded. The GM's made a public announcement on this stuff. IB confirmed ninja looted CT. 2 week suspension was handed out. 1 week was taken off, and you peasants on the forums were pretty much silent about it.

You missed the secret GM decision to shorten TMOs suspension. How do you know Amelinda didnt lengthen IB's?

Mem blurr, TMO.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I think public humiliation / punishment thread with a list of offenses and punishments would make half this drama go away.


Less bickering over who got punished for what etc etc.


and anybody saying there is some sort of non-disclosure policy as a reason they can't... I call shenanigans on that.

[Jimes]

You missed the secret GM decision to shorten TMOs suspension. How do you know Amelinda didnt lengthen IB's?

Mem blurr, TMO.

That wasn't exactly secret either.

[Thana8088]

I am sure Amelinda is doing the best that she can, and it must be incredibly frustrating to deal with the "oh-we-are-so-entitled" p99 community.

Could the lifting of TMO's raid suspension been handled differently? Sure.

Should it have been? Maybe.

Does it really matter now? Not so much.

People will work together towards a better community or they won't. If we do, perhaps the original spirit of p99 will return someday.

[Writ3r]

She is too busy banning people like PureLo who point out her mistakes and contradictions that hold her accountable for her own actions rather than taking the time to legitimately go through your petitions and handle them with intent to fix. Seems she would also much rather hide her little pinky promises with the intent to be stealthy but rather as we all know should be made public knowledge so they don't erupt into stuff like this causing further dissension. I mean after all wasn't it her own words saying she wanted there to be a "clean slate" where both/all guilds could work together better?

Good job botching that ideal.

[Silentone]

Just curious what difference would it have made if she posted it or we raided a target and revealed it?

[Writ3r]

If she posted it... there doesn't look like there is any favoritism going on for one.

Second, people who are going to engage targets and see TMO roll up actually would have to be prepared to be leapfrogged or trained instead of not...considering they thought they were suspended.

Besides as is shown without the knowledge of knowing think of how many petitions could have been avoided on top of the amount they already complain about getting had it been made public... it is quite obvious people would rather trust a professional public statement by someone who is suppose to be in charge rather than players who have provided problems in the past for others.

[Flunklesnarkin]

If she posted it... there doesn't look like there is any favoritism going on for one.

Second, people who are going to engage targets and see TMO roll up actually would have to be prepared to be leapfrogged or trained instead of not...considering they thought they were suspended.

Besides as is shown without the knowledge of knowing think of how many petitions could have been avoided on top of the amount they already complain about getting had it been made public... it is quite obvious people would rather trust a professional public statement by someone who is suppose to be in charge rather than players who have provided problems in the past for others.


+1 for better communication between GM's and players

[Boombha]

If she made it public earlier the flame would still be on her, it would just be directed differently.

Perhaps she was trying to stay the storm a bit. Sure hindsight says, there is no way a storm could have possibly be negated, but if we give the benefit of the doubt, perhaps she was just trying to hold it off for a bit longer so she didn't have to sit in tell-hell for the last few hours of her night.

[Writ3r]

if she truly wanted to avoid tell spam or flame wars then she wouldn't have done it at all, making it a secret instead of public just makes it 10x worse because then it is like a piece of bloody meat in a pool of piranha's... people going nuts wondering whether it is legitimate truth or not.

[Ravager]

I think keeping the lifting of TMO's suspension secret was pretty unfair to the whole server. I generally think that whatever the GM's decide is fair, because I never know all the information, but when they tell a guild that their suspension has been lifted, but tell it to nobody else, that makes that guild privy to some pretty important raid scene information that will affect about a quarter of this server's population.

I'm not saying TMO did anything wrong and I'm not calling favoritism because I'm sure Amelinda has her reasons for wanting to keep it secret, but I do believe that the integrity of the server as a whole is at stake when GM's are sharing information that give an advantage in the end-game with one group of players and not another.

[Hitchens]

if she truly wanted to avoid tell spam or flame wars then she wouldn't have done it at all, making it a secret instead of public just makes it 10x worse because then it is like a piece of bloody meat in a pool of piranha's... people going nuts wondering whether it is legitimate truth or not.

People make mistakes. It happens.

[Autotune]

I think keeping the lifting of TMO's suspension secret was pretty unfair to the whole server. I generally think that whatever the GM's decide is fair, because I never know all the information, but when they tell a guild that their suspension has been lifted, but tell it to nobody else, that makes that guild privy to some pretty important raid scene information that will affect about a quarter of this server's population.

I'm not saying TMO did anything wrong and I'm not calling favoritism because I'm sure Amelinda has her reasons for wanting to keep it secret, but I do believe that the integrity of the server as a whole is at stake when GM's are sharing information that give an advantage in the end-game with one group of players and not another.

aye, Raid suspensions are an advantage.

[Razdeline]

Really has nothing to do with any favoritism to anyone.

The active trolling, inhumane acts in raid zones, and competition turned to griefing is ruining the raid scene here.

Anonymous forum accounts need to not be anonymous, the general set of raid rules aren't being followed. So I am done here. Enjoy your game, and enjoy making it worse, and killing off the population.

I appreciate there being a hard working group of volunteers that try to do police work here, but it isn't working (at least end game). What I care about is end game, so others may find a home here that don't care about that.

I think the CSR team needs a bulldog to intelligibly enforce rules, which isn't happening. Until that happens I won't be playing here.

Good bye p99.

Vazdeline 60 mage IB

[Razdeline]

Really has nothing to do with any favoritism to anyone.

The active trolling, inhumane acts in raid zones, and competition turned to griefing is ruining the raid scene here.

Anonymous forum accounts need to not be anonymous, the general set of raid rules aren't being followed. So I am done here. Enjoy your game, and enjoy making it worse, and killing off the population.

I appreciate there being a hard working group of volunteers that try to do police work here, but it isn't working (at least end game). What I care about is end game, so others may find a home here that don't care about that.

I think the CSR team needs a bulldog to intelligibly enforce rules, which isn't happening. Until that happens, I won't be playing here.

Good bye p99.

Vazdeline 60 mage IB

[Autotune]

so nice, he said it twice.

[Razdeline]

so nice, he said it twice.

Things that have happened between both guilds are reactions caused from actions. Both sides have done wrong things, and I really hope you guys can consider making right choices.

It always seems easy to do the wrong thing, but hard to do the right. The whole scene in the past year has become progressively worse.

[Nirgon]

I think the CSR team needs a bulldog to intelligibly enforce rules, which isn't happening.

Sign me up.

[Autotune]

Things that have happened between both guilds are reactions caused from actions. Both sides have done wrong things, and I really hope you guys can consider making right choices.

It always seems easy to do the wrong thing, but hard to do the right. The whole scene in the past year has become progressively worse.

It had to get worse before it got better. I seen it no other way.

[Boombha]

I don't see favoritism to just one guild. People keep shouting that TMO somehow has the GM in their back pocket and yet BOTH guilds/individuals in both guilds have been punished for various reasons and BOTH guilds have been given leeway on various situations.

I hear IB QQing about unfair treatment over the reduction of a raid suspension for an alleged training when they were JUST let off for an alleged training of BDA. Evidence was provided in both situations and the GM acted on it. IB is QQing over unfair treatment of a reduced raid suspension when their raid suspension was reduced from 14 days to 7.

What it comes down to is "If it doesn't go MY way, then I will cry favoritism" and that is what I see IB doing right now.

[Hitchens]

A little rational self interest would go a long way. Treating other players pleasantly helps make your own gaming experience pleasant and productive.

[Banditfist]

Boombha, you hear what you want to hear. Listening to Stealin or any other TMO/RnF is another thing that is inherently wrong with the server.

[Kender]

forget the raid suspensions. asshattery should carry account suspensions for all involved. 2 week minimum. any account they've used on that IP.

maybe then people will be nicer to each other

[BruizeLee]

Never put a woman in-charge

Especially a bi-polar retard with a dried up cunt

jesus christ little harsh?

[Diggles]

jesus christ little harsh?

he's in IB, he misses xzerion's private box lessons

[Alarti0001]

jesus christ little harsh?

Bruize this is why tmo gives 0 shits baub joined ib...just a hateful child

[Silentone]

and mad...real mad.

[Enygma]

Yea GM decisions that affect the entire server being done without the knowledge of the high end player base was the end for me.

P99 was fucking awesome, and who knows maybe in the future it can be again. For me though, the sun has set for now.

It will be if this isnt a troll and IB is actually leaving the server. Finally no more cheaters!! BUt i still think is a qq for attention.

HURRAY!

[LordFresh]

Bruize this is why tmo gives 0 shits baub joined ib...just a hateful child

You are a retard. Baub > you in every way possible. TMO would be NOTHING if you guys didnt merge with DA/ascension a guild that baub helped build up.. you are a nobody.

[Harrison]

TMO would be twice the guild it is now if it didn't absorb that piece of shit guild.

[ardikus]

epic nerd drama on a fake eq server!

[LordFresh]

TMO would be twice the guild it is now if it didn't absorb that piece of shit guild.

tmo wasnt tracking or attempting raid targets short of maestro before hooking up with ascension. But yes ascension was a POS guild.

[Harrison]

TMO was raiding pre DA faggotry.

TMO would have progressed just fine with the playerbase they had, and was a great guild with plenty of players and talent to do so.

They absorbed DA and their reputation will never be recovered.

[cyryllis]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/432079_10150677512989274_682669273_11186560_372125 308_n.jpg

[Alarti0001]

tmo wasnt tracking or attempting raid targets short of maestro before hooking up with ascension. But yes ascension was a POS guild.

So TMO would be nothing without a guild baub helped build...but that guild was a pos guild? Consistency please.

So you are telling me baub built a shit guild...tmo absorbed it and made it perform?

You are a moron...their are great players in every guild. It takes great management and inner guild community to make it work. The Tmo merger was the one great raid guild merger on this server because both guilds are cool enough to work together without inner strife. The shitheads who wanted to form inner cliques to vie for power or loot priority left and went to ib....relapsee, mcbard(although not da), baub, and im sure a few others.

[LordFresh]

So TMO would be nothing without a guild baub helped build...but that guild was a pos guild? Consistency please.

So you are telling me baub built a shit guild...tmo absorbed it and made it perform?

You are a moron...their are great players in every guild. It takes great management and inner guild community to make it work. The Tmo merger was the one great raid guild merger on this server because both guilds are cool enough to work together without inner strife. The shitheads who wanted to form inner cliques to vie for power or loot priority left and went to ib....relapsee, mcbard(although not da), baub, and im sure a few others.

are you kidding dude, yes ascention was shit because baub had taken a break at that point.. actually baub was a great member of DA and like it or not ascension is DA. And yes if ascention was a shit guild what does that make tmo.

Although i agree that there are great players in each guild with some shitheads. but relapsee / daliant / baub / mcbard > you in everyway possible and they didnt leave for loot they left because TMO was a joke.

[Alarti0001]

are you kidding dude, yes ascention was shit because baub had taken a break at that point.. actually baub was a great member of DA and like it or not ascension is DA. And yes if ascention was a shit guild what does that make tmo.

Although i agree that there are great players in each guild with some shitheads. but relapsee / daliant / baub / mcbard > you in everyway possible and they didnt leave for loot they left because TMO was a joke.

Yet TMO is #1the by leaps and bounds and is here to stay and not running to another server. Time will tell. Also, explain how they are greater than me. Tell me what you know about me.

[quido]

I'm one of the baddest and one of the best-looking motherfuckers that has ever lived.

[LordFresh]

Yet TMO is #1the by leaps and bounds and is here to stay and not running to another server. Time will tell. Also, explain how they are greater than me. Tell me what you know about me.

Minten > You in everyway possible..

[Perun]

are you kidding dude, yes ascention was shit because baub had taken a break at that point.. actually baub was a great member of DA and like it or not ascension is DA. And yes if ascention was a shit guild what does that make tmo.

Although i agree that there are great players in each guild with some shitheads. but relapsee / daliant / baub / mcbard > you in everyway possible and they didnt leave for loot they left because TMO was a joke.

I think its safe to say these people joined IB because they share our everquest philosophy which is... Hack to the MAX babyyyyyyyyyyy we dont give a fuck bout no rules

[baub]

#1 guild wipes to Druushk with 50 last night before anyone knows they are even in VP, then takes 3 hours to pull hoshkar resulting in them getting trained... by themselves.

http://i.imgur.com/hWReU.jpg

Sorry I wouldn't let you know who Minten and Slapen were in game Faz, rest assured big Slapen is in your guild collecting them VP pixels though ;p

[Alarti0001]

Minten > You in everyway possible..

/yawn

[Autotune]

look at that server first warrior and wizard epic... Nice screenshot.

[Alarti0001]

#1 guild wipes to Druushk with 50 last night before anyone knows they are even in VP, then
oh takes 3 hours to pull hoshkar resulting in them getting trained... by themselves.

http://i.imgur.com/hWReU.jpg

Sorry I wouldn't let you know who Minten and Slapen were in game Faz, rest assured big Slapen is in your guild collecting them VP pixels though ;p

Date/time stamps or it didn't happen.
oh also a screenshot of a /who would help too.

[Seaweedpimp]

baub so mad ib collapsing.


its either red or vd bro.

[Zenlina]

All members at the time built DA not just one. And besides barb didnt join DA till near the end, so didnt really build it per say from the beginning so you can toss that out the window.

If you said daliant or heebee on the other hand would of had more wt, but doesnt matter in the end. You guys left and deserted your friends and yes it was for loot, but that's the way yous wanna roll then fine, i dont hold it against you just disappointed because i thought yous were better then that.

[Seaweedpimp]

Cant be #1 or even #2? Hop servers.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Cant be #1 or even #2? Hop servers.

[Harrison]

Number 1 shitbag guild, so proud.

[Nizzarr]

Come proc some BSH on red baub!

[Tiggles]

I did not know this thread existed because it's not in RnF.


Please put this thread in RnF so I can call people bad words.


With Love-

Tiggles

[Silentone]

baub so mad ib collapsing.


its either red or vd bro.

Maybe he should think twice before bailing on his guild just because they had a bad week. I guess those pixles were to precious.

[Tiggles]

Maybe he should think twice before bailing on his guild just because they had a bad week. I guess those pixles were to precious.

I was hurt by Mcbard leaving Baub was eehh...

[Harrison]

TMO was raiding pre DA faggotry.

TMO would have progressed just fine with the playerbase they had, and was a great guild with plenty of players and talent to do so.

They absorbed DA and their reputation will never be recovered.

[Ele]

Just because you quote yourself Harrison doesn't mean people will give your statements any more credence.

[azeth]

i dislike that Baubarian's name is used negatively in this thread. Ill bow out as I obv. quit well before whatever drama is being discussed, however I doth protest out of love for my fellow barbarians.

Barbarian
Samuel
Azeth

our tallest members.

[azeth]

Barbarian
Samuel
Azeth

our tallest members.

meant Baub~

[fishingme]

IB/TMO/VD merger, case closed.

[quido]

Let's just implement Tiggles' draft idea!

[Autotune]

IB/TMO merger, case closed.

[G13]

While I'm sure baub was a decent shaman who sat there and buffed people who sent him tells the revisionist history being laughably attempted here cannot go unanswered

Baub was not some savior like Obama. He was one of many shamans who had good attendance and did was he was told.

That's it

[Harrison]

Bronson, worst enchanter on the server next to Acarer.

[G13]

Bronson, worst enchanter on the server next to Acarer.

Nobody cares about about the garbage you type on the internet Finawin. Go troll someone else.

[Zenlina]

Bronson, worst enchanter on the server next to Acarer.

He thinks your a enchanter... that hilarious

[Harrison]

...you're an enchanter... that's hilarious.

Fixed that for you. Hopefully English is your second language.

[Tiggles]

He thinks your a enchanter... that hilarious

[Diggles]

tiggles lied to me fucker

[Alarti0001]

...you're an enchanter... that's hilarious.

Fixed that for you. Hopefully English is your second language.

Spelling/grammar trollls, for when you are too stupid to come up with anything else to say. Considering you just repeat the same shit about tmo/da over and over again, this is not surprising.

[Xanthias]

Wow this finally makes it to RnF after 200+ posts

[baub]

thx for the love friends

Come proc some BSH on red baub!

maybe someday nizzypoo ~

[Appollo]

the revisionist history being laughably attempted here cannot go unanswered


History, I hear it repeats itself. I believe I've seen this scenario unfold before.

[Nirgon]

Bronson, worst enchanter on the server next to Acarer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOUMIXbTM5U

[Nebi]

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2j3ntxc.jpg

[kawing168]

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2j3ntxc.jpg

OMG

[Motec]

Lol who screenshotted my char.

/surname would not allow amelinda driedupcunt.

[Tiggles]

Lol who screenshotted my char.

/surname would not allow amelinda driedupcunt.

Have fun on eqmac friends

[Alarti0001]

Lol who screenshotted my char.

/surname would not allow amelinda driedupcunt.

Motec is a prime example of how shitty some people are raising their kids.