An Open Letter To Aruden

[Hasbinbad]

I understand why you're mad. What I think you're seeing is the GM's not responding because there is a lack of solid evidence of playerbase support of your request.

Therefore I propose you start a petition.

http://www.petitiononline.com/

I will sign it.

[Diggles]

I demand we report every post with Holocaust in it, much like the word "******" (used academically)

[Diggles]

diggles = sucks

hasbinbad = sucks


Diggles + Hasbinbad = Epic.

[Hasbinbad]

I demand we report every post with Holocaust in it, much like the word "******" (used academically)
One is a horrible epithet, the other is not.

It is not offensive to speak about a holocaust or about slavery. In fact, any academic could make a good argument about why talking about holocausts and slavery is good in that it raises awareness about those issues, which goes a long way to help prevent recurrences.

However, there is no good use of the word ******, other than to speak of it's use, which accomplishes the above. Any other use of the term is meant to be offensive to all black people, de facto, by the very nature of the word, and the context which it has acquired. Ignorance is your only excuse, but that only works once, and only if you were a feral child - raised under a rock - by wolves - that was born yesterday.

The only other possible exception is the ironic of black people using the word, usually amongst themselves. This is an effort on the part of blacks to have some modicum of power over whites (who many perceive as having all or most of the control in this world), in that whites are not supposed to use the word.

Now there is another movement within the "subtly" racist internet generation that thinks it is OK to use the word ****** regardless of their race, justifying that use with the above questionable ironic use.

This is a misuse of logic. The justification is akin to "hey that guy over there stabbed his wife, that must make it ok for me to do it."

The fact is that the use is offensive to many blacks, even when used by other blacks. There is a very strong movement within the black community to discourage their own use of the word. This is always more prevalent with older blacks, with black youths making up the vast majority of the population which uses it. In that it is still an offensive term which conjures up images of ethnic slavery that has no other legitimate use in modern English, no matter who uses it, don't fucking use it.

If you use it here, I at least will send private messages to forum moderators, here and on IRC, and I will try to have it removed and have you banned. That is what I can do.

Use of the word Holocaust is completely different. I understand where Aruden is coming from, but whoever made the argument in that thread that the term is general had the right of it. No matter how much I believe that the assholes who made that guild are racist little bitchfucks who are thumbing their noses at me right now, Holocaust is a word with a legitimate use. Without some kind of solid proof that they have an anti-Semitic agenda, and in the absence of an outcry by the vast majority of the community, the GM's really have no reason to act.

[Hasbinbad]

The only other possible exception is the ironic of black people using the word, usually amongst themselves.
Should read:
The only other possible exception is the ironic by black people, usually amongst themselves.
I got twisted in my pre-post edits, and forgot one. DAMN YOU NO EDIT KEY!!

[pickled_heretic]

why do you need evidence that its intent was anti-semitic? this isn't a court of law, it's an emulated everquest server. it's best to err on the side of caution.

it's not like it's an artistic slapnuts fucking expression here, it's the name of a guild in a server full of trolls. you know exactly what they meant when they made a name like that.

don't ever compare having an open discussion with the holocaust with naming your fucking pvp troll guild after it. one of these things is appropriate, i'll let you decide for yourself which one it is.

[Hasbinbad]

I understand what you're saying pickled, but honestly Holocausts are a pretty common theme in fantasy worlds, and I can't see acting on it without some other kind of evidence that there is an anti-Semitic agenda behind it..

If *i* was a GM, I would look at chat logs etc., and the first time they said anything remotely anti-Semitic, I'd disband the guild and IP ban every single one of them, but that's me, and I could understand not having the time to deal with that.

[Truth]

If they were trying to be trolly about The Holocaust™, I'd at least expect propaganda on their website.

[Daldolma]

I don't think it's ultra-offensive, but I also don't think it matters. The fact is that the word "Holocaust" is generally associated with "The Holocaust" of Jews during WWII, and there's simply no reason to bring that into a game. It doesn't matter if that was the intent or if that is a justified association.

I've seen character surnames like "Manboobs" get changed on a whim. So what's the point in defending a guild named Holocaust when 50+ people have voted in a poll that it offends them? People are bothered by it, just change it. Annihilation, extermination, massacre -- they all mean roughly the same thing and don't offend anyone. Switch it and move on.

[Diggles]

Let's say I made an all blacks guild. Would it be socially acceptable to name it "Massa Got Us Waddermelun"?

[Truth]

Rename is <Sho'ah>

[pickled_heretic]

Let's say I made an all blacks guild. Would it be socially acceptable to name it "Massa Got Us Waddermelun"?

let's say i find a more asinine and irrelevant comparison to make than this one. will you die irl?

[Diggles]

doubt it I have no morals or social boundaries.

Rename is Sho'ah
ftfy

[Truth]

ty

[Truth]

What I meant is instead of renaming the guild, how about we just rename The Holocaust™ to Sho'ah, as the Jews have already done

[purest]

One person is bothered by it, just change it.

i can see this as a being a really good rule

[Diggles]

daldolma's name bothers me change it

[Daldolma]

Didn't say one person. 50+ voted that they found it inappropriate. If there's a significant portion of the server that thinks it's inappropriate, and there's clearly some justification behind that, there's no reason to bother with it.

[Diggles]

you realize Aruden made a bunch of accounts to vote too, right?

[Diggles]

And posted the poll on fucking Reddit

[Daldolma]

Haha, how many? There are like 50 or 60 votes that say it's inappropriate. Even 20 would be enough IMO. If 30 or 40 of those are his, then fuck it.

[Diggles]

well considering he posted that shit on reddit i'd say like 20 are his, around 15 are some retards that dont even play the server, rest might be legit (I know a couple people voted to troll)

[Daldolma]

Jesus, if he made 20 different accounts to vote, he's got way bigger issues than guild names.

I'm finding that hard to believe, though.

[Diggles]

he's made how many threads about it?

He seems dedicated to pissing Cast off (God praise his soul)

[Truth]

yea that aruden guy is just a troll. the reddit thing blew his cover no one is that assburger

[pickled_heretic]

you realize Aruden made a bunch of accounts to vote too, right?

uthgaard indicated that aruden made 1 other account to post that thread, there's no evidence that he made multiple accounts to vote, or that he even voted with the 2 accounts that he made. i know at least a handful of those votes are legit, xshayla for instance. you can look through the thread for a few others. personally, i never voted in the poll because i was not aware of its existence until after the thread had fallen off of the front page.

[purest]

uthgaard indicated that aruden made 1 other account to post that thread, there's no evidence that he made multiple accounts to vote, or that he even voted with the 2 accounts that he made. i know at least a handful of those votes are legit, xshayla for instance. you can look through the thread for a few others. personally, i never voted in the poll because i was not aware of its existence until after the thread had fallen off of the front page.

exactly something aruden would say

[pickled_heretic]

exactly something aruden would say

Wehrmacht, how does it feel to know that you are the single most damning thing about any argument you ever make?

[pickled_heretic]

It's like, thank god wehrmacht decided to come in as opposition, this makes my life so much easier. i just have to say your name a few times to win every argument ever.

[purest]

http://tacomaatheists.com/files/2009/07/tin-foil-hat.jpg

[Autotune]

lol, applying the word holocaust to specifically the Jew people is a fucking insult. It's like when I say the word black and you think i'm talkin about some african slave bunny from the south picking cotton. No you dumb fuck, I was referring the the crayon.






ITT: Pussies easily offended by words.

[Odonk]

it isnt like the entire server population is just going to quit playing just because a few morons find a guild name offensive. and besides, who are you to decide what another guilds name means? just get some preparation H for your butt and move on

[Aadill]

hol·o·caust

1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire.
2.

Holocaust The genocide of European Jews and others by the Nazis during World War II
A massive slaughter
3. A sacrificial offering that is consumed entirely by flames.


If *i* was a GM, I would look at chat logs etc., and the first time they said anything remotely anti-Semitic, I'd disband the guild and IP ban every single one of them, but that's me, and I could understand not having the time to deal with that.

why do you need evidence that its intent was anti-semitic? this isn't a court of law, it's an emulated everquest server. it's best to err on the side of caution.

lol, applying the word holocaust to specifically the Jew people is a fucking insult. It's like when I say the word black and you think i'm talkin about some african slave bunny from the south picking cotton. No you dumb fuck, I was referring the the crayon.

ITT: Pussies easily offended by words.


Political correctness is a sham for those who are afraid to define things as they are; a method used to completely circumvent feeling bad about a perceived bigotry. All that shit does is cause polarization.

Black people are African American while white people are White? No one says, "caucasian" unless they are trying to inadvertently make people feel bad about the polar opposite.

The word holocaust does NOT belong to the Jews. Sho`ah, HaShoah, Churben, Hurban, and The Holocaust are all words to describe it in various Jewish forms, but it is not a word that BELONGS to an event. Holocaust and The Holocaust are not the same and anyone who thinks they are is part of the problem. Adolf, to this day, is verboten for a child's name in Germany.

I can understand that the words conjure up bad images but how about all the other people that were named Adolf at the time? How about peoples birthdays on 9/11? How about weddings, anniversaries on 9/11? How about wanting to sit at the back of the bus in middle school? How about the problems of wage slavery? How about being a custodian or janitor and being called a sanitation engineer? How about a truck driver being called a 'freight relocation specialist?' Words become negative because people make them that way. Stop attaching emotions to emotionless words.




With all of that said whining and calling the GMs racist is not a good way to get what you want. Derp.

[Shannacore]

If *i* was a GM, I would look at chat logs etc., and the first time they said anything remotely anti-Semitic, I'd disband the guild and IP ban every single one of them, but that's me, and I could understand not having the time to deal with that.

Not sure if srs

[pickled_heretic]

hol·o·caust

1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire.
2.

Holocaust The genocide of European Jews and others by the Nazis during World War II
A massive slaughter
3. A sacrificial offering that is consumed entirely by flames.









Political correctness is a sham for those who are afraid to define things as they are; a method used to completely circumvent feeling bad about a perceived bigotry. All that shit does is cause polarization.

Black people are African American while white people are White? No one says, "caucasian" unless they are trying to inadvertently make people feel bad about the polar opposite.

The word holocaust does NOT belong to the Jews. Sho`ah, HaShoah, Churben, Hurban, and The Holocaust are all words to describe it in various Jewish forms, but it is not a word that BELONGS to an event. Holocaust and The Holocaust are not the same and anyone who thinks they are is part of the problem. Adolf, to this day, is verboten for a child's name in Germany.


you are supporting a very bizarre view by trying to make this analogy. Adolf would not have been an appropriate name for classic everquest, so whether or not it's verboten for the jesus of fucking Nazareth it's a really bad example to use.

there is a time and a place to have these discussions about controversial topics, a p99 server is not one of them. If the guild's name was "The Holocaust" there would be no dispute over whether or not it was offensive, the only issue is whether or not the word by itself most commonly refers to the judeocide. if you type simply "holocaust" into a search engine you will struggle to find a non-judeocide related article. the soonest i could find anything non-related to the wholesale slaughter of jews was page 8 of the search results.

[Aadill]

I was referencing word association and negative connotations that people build out of their own volition, not by some empirical or intrinsic discovery of a word in a language.

the only issue is whether or not the word by itself most commonly refers to the judeocide. if you type simply "holocaust" into a search engine you will struggle to find a non-judeocide related article. the soonest i could find anything non-related to the wholesale slaughter of jews was page 8 of the search results.

Do you expect people to discuss the merits of a word defined in a dictionary or discuss the event that people associate with the word? Whose fault is that? why do you think those search results are in the order they are in?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_results_page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization


Negative connotations are only part of the English language because we let them be there. We associate feelings with words. Say niggling or *****rdly in public and see what sort of responses you get. Are they archaic words? You bet... but the point is phonetics and emotions kick in and people get more concerned with how it makes them feel rather than what it means. Holocaust in the terms of a fantasy game is probably something like how The Hole was created. That was a holocaust in relation to the game. Massive PvP destruction, although my disdain for the majority of the general PvP population is high, should be able to use that particular word if they so choose. I support that under the concept of people in this world purposely creating negative emotion over words. It's not just about The Holocaust vs holocaust, but this is a perfect example.

Have you been up in arms over the erudite jokes? Is this (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52541) offensive?

[Odonk]

when did google become the one stop shop to tell us whether or not something is racist? it seems to me that your whole argument revolves around the fact that google has 8 pages of information about The Holocaust when you search for "holocaust" before it shows anything NOT pertaining to it.

[pickled_heretic]

I was referencing word association and negative connotations that people build out of their own volition, not by some empirical or intrinsic discovery of a word in a language.


no such thing. the domain of language is exclusively subjective. a word means precisely what a person's interpretation of that word is. if most people conjure up images of burning jews and gas chambers when you say "holocaust," then that's what the word means. i'm not going to embarrass you by responding to the rest of your post, especially the last part.

[xshayla701]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljtam0OtOy1qfl0xr.gif

[Aadill]

no such thing. the domain of language is exclusively subjective. a word means precisely what a person's interpretation of that word is. if most people conjure up images of burning jews and gas chambers when you say "holocaust," then that's what the word means. i'm not going to embarrass you by responding to the rest of your post, especially the last part.

Embarrass me on the P99 boards I don't give a fuck. If this board is "not a place for these sorts of discussions," then heed your own warning otherwise discuss it.

Tell me, do you expect people to discuss the merits of a word defined in a dictionary or discuss the event that people associate with the word?

when did google become the one stop shop to tell us whether or not something is racist? it seems to me that your whole argument revolves around the fact that google has 8 pages of information about The Holocaust when you search for "holocaust" before it shows anything NOT pertaining to it.

[pickled_heretic]

Tell me, do you expect people to discuss the merits of a word defined in a dictionary or discuss the event that people associate with the word?

they're going to use the word however they want to use the word. the most common interpretations are going to gradually filter to the top of search results. also, logic is hard.

[Aadill]

PS if you are actually wanting to argue by starting namecalling that's cool. I just fail to see why people are so willing to stand by some sort of political correctness when it is their own emotion that leads them to miscommunication in discourse. Holocaust is not a bad word. A guild named Holocaust does not make them Anti-Semitic. A guild named Gestapo would raise my eyebrow and probably result in a denial. I don't even know what the original thread was and I probably don't give a shit because the guy ended up being a whiny shitheel about it, but the point stands: you are assigning definition and emotion to a word usage that is unrelated.

[Autotune]

PS if you are actually wanting to argue by starting namecalling that's cool. I just fail to see why people are so willing to stand by some sort of political correctness when it is their own emotion that leads them to miscommunication in discourse. Holocaust is not a bad word. A guild named Holocaust does not make them Anti-Semitic. A guild named Gestapo would raise my eyebrow and probably result in a denial. I don't even know what the original thread was and I probably don't give a shit because the guy ended up being a whiny shitheel about it, but the point stands: you are assigning definition and emotion to a word usage that is unrelated.

every time a Japanese person hears the word adam and thinks of atom they cry, thus no one can be named Adam in Japan.

[Aadill]

they're going to use the word however they want to use the word. the most common interpretations are going to gradually filter to the top of search results.

alright let's put that into the scope of the situation here:

The people in the Holocaust guild are not labeling themselves as anti-Semitic. They are using their interpretation of the word. Aruden made a dumb post in which 50 people that voted against the guild name are using another interpretation of the word.

Tyrrany of majority through feigned ignorance or misperception.

[Messianic]

However, there is no good use of the word ******, other than to speak of it's use, which accomplishes the above. Any other use of the term is meant to be offensive to all black people, de facto, by the very nature of the word, and the context which it has acquired.

So do we have to verify that we're black IRL to be able to use the word without being a racist?

[Autotune]

the word ****** was around before it was used on Africans. I will not let the Jews take holocaust like Africans took ******.

[pickled_heretic]

alright let's put that into the scope of the situation here:

The people in the Holocaust guild are not labeling themselves as anti-Semitic. They are using their interpretation of the word. Aruden made a dumb post in which 50 people that voted against the guild name are using another interpretation of the word.

Tyrrany of majority through feigned ignorance or misperception.

that's not how it works. the majority of people in the states are not black, but we still confine some words like '******' to certain arenas of discussion. it's not that most people find the word offensive, it's that any civilized society protects its minorities out of its collective sense of moral justice.

i can't claim a word for my own use. i am a slave to however the word is most commonly used. i can't make a guild with the word "coon" in it for the same reason. sure, i can mean a raccoon. who cares? i could mean whever i wanted, the word can be easily interpreted with racist connotation and thus is simply not appropriate for guild naming conventions. once again, we're not talking about free speech in public discourse, we're talking about a fucking troll guild on an emulated pvp server. i would not allow the name just to avoid controversies like this that could reach beyond the scope of the server (and already have).

[pickled_heretic]

PS if you are actually wanting to argue by starting namecalling that's cool.

Holocaust and The Holocaust are not the same and anyone who thinks they are is part of the problem.

You started this, I'm just taking out the trash. I'm part of the problem? get real. your rhetoric sounds like talking points from oreilly.

[Autotune]

that's not how it works. the majority of people in the states are not black, but we still confine some words like '******' to certain arenas of discussion. it's not that most people find the word offensive, it's that any civilized society protects its minorities out of its collective sense of moral justice.

i can't claim a word for my own use. i am a slave to however the word is most commonly used. i can't make a guild with the word "coon" in it for the same reason. sure, i can mean a raccoon. who cares? i could mean whever i wanted, the word can be easily interpreted with racist connotation and thus is simply not appropriate for guild naming conventions. once again, we're not talking about free speech in public discourse, we're talking about a fucking troll guild on an emulated pvp server. i would not allow the name just to avoid controversies like this that could reach beyond the scope of the server (and already have).

holocaust isn't shortened, it is what it is.

Coon is short for raccoon, mostly to be used as a racial slur.

holocaust is not a racial slur in any shape form or fashion. Slave trade would be more appropriate in comparison. Slave trading was also around before the Africans were traded.

fuck off.

[pickled_heretic]

holocaust isn't shortened, it is what it is.

Coon is short for raccoon, mostly to be used as a racial slur.

holocaust is not a racial slur in any shape form or fashion. Slave trade would be more appropriate in comparison. Slave trading was also around before the Africans were traded.

fuck off.

"The Holocaust" is not a racial slur in any shape form or fashion, but it is commonly accepted that a guild name specifically referring to the Judeocide is unquestionably inappropriate. The only issue is whether "Holocaust" and "The Holocaust" are the same. your comparison is invalid.

[pickled_heretic]

third page down:

http://www.coondawgs.com/

a website devoted to racoon hunting enthusiasts. clearly coon is less controversial than holocaust.

[pickled_heretic]

third page down:


sorry, not page, i meant link. it's on the first page for searching for "coon."

[Aadill]

"The Holocaust" is not a racial slur in any shape form or fashion, but it is commonly accepted that a guild name specifically referring to the Judeocide is unquestionably inappropriate.

How do you know this?

[Autotune]

"The Holocaust" is not a racial slur in any shape form or fashion, but it is commonly accepted that a guild name specifically referring to the Judeocide is unquestionably inappropriate. The only issue is whether "Holocaust" and "The Holocaust" are the same. your comparison is invalid.

There have been many holocausts aside from that of the Jews. Holocaust should not and does not only apply to the Jewish people.

The Holocaust is referenced to the Jewish people because that is what they wished to call it.

One is a specific name given to an event, the other is a generic word with a generic definition.

The Super Bowl does not equal super bowl. One has a specific meaning, the other could refer to a bowl that has super powers, or an array of other meanings.

[pickled_heretic]

How do you know this?

nilbog said as such. you're welcome to open that line of discussion, but you would be the first. Assuming that "The Holocaust" and "Judeocide" are perfect synonyms, do you really think it's appropriate to name an everquest guild after it?

[pickled_heretic]

There have been many holocausts aside from that of the Jews. Holocaust should not and does not only apply to the Jewish people.

The Holocaust is referenced to the Jewish people because that is what they wished to call it.

One is a specific name given to an event, the other is a generic word with a generic definition.

The Super Bowl does not equal super bowl. One has a specific meaning, the other could refer to a bowl that has super powers, or an array of other meanings.

nobody has said anything to convince me that judeocide isn't the most commonly accepted interpretation of the word. the myriad other reasons are inconsequential, if the most common, or fairly common meaning is to refer to the judeocide, then it's inappropriate, just as the word coon.

[Odonk]

starting to get the feeling that pickled heretic really couldnt give 2 fucks less about the OP. instead he is having to much fun trolling. its the same fucking arguement over and over and over and over. i mean, does it really take 3 threads to discuss this? how many times do the GMs have to ignore you before you get the hint? Let me summarize for you, if it hasnt been changed yet, it isnt going to be. put preparation H on your asshole to stop the pain and move on, or better yet contact a civil rights group and let them laugh at the ludicrousness that your presenting... be sure to tell them your whole argument is based on google search.

[pickled_heretic]

There have been many holocausts aside from that of the Jews. Holocaust should not and does not only apply to the Jewish people.

The Holocaust is referenced to the Jewish people because that is what they wished to call it.

One is a specific name given to an event, the other is a generic word with a generic definition.

The Super Bowl does not equal super bowl. One has a specific meaning, the other could refer to a bowl that has super powers, or an array of other meanings.

nothing about the particle "The" conveys any meaning (indeed, particles never convey meaning), it is purely there for syntax. "Super Bowl" means the same as "The Super Bowl" depending on the context.

See here: "A Super Bowl winner" is clearly referring to "The Super Bowl," while "a super bowl winner" could refer to some other super bowl winner, or someone who is really good at winning bowls.

"Holocaust" the guild name is capitalized. Without other context, "Holocaust" capitalized nearly always refers to the Judeocide. See this chicago style guide, ironically posted by Humerox:

The Chicago Manual of Style:

In current usage, the referent of a lowercased "holocaust" is rarely the Nazi murders, while the core referent of a capitalized "Holocaust" is almost invariably the Judeocide of the Nazi camps.

Now, answer this: Is the guild name capitalized?

[Aadill]

nilbog said as such. you're welcome to open that line of discussion, but you would be the first. Assuming that "The Holocaust" and "Judeocide" are perfect synonyms, do you really think it's appropriate to name an everquest guild after it?

If nilbog has chatlogs of them actually making it for that purpose, then great.... get rid of it. From what I understand it is the opposite: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=472242&postcount=4

The guild's name is Holocaust, not The Holocaust. Why are you changing the guild's name to make your argument? Trollocaust.

[Autotune]

nobody has said anything to convince me that judeocide isn't the most commonly accepted interpretation of the word. the myriad other reasons are inconsequential, if the most common, or fairly common meaning is to refer to the judeocide, then it's inappropriate, just as the word coon.

Well by your own admittance, the word holocaust is not inappropriate.

Google, define holocaust - The google abides.

hol·o·caust/ˈhäləˌkôst/

Noun:

1) Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire or nuclear war: "a nuclear holocaust".

2) The mass murder of Jews under the German Nazi regime during the period 1941–45.



Until 2 becomes 1 and 1 becomes 2, stfu.

Sorry, I thought you would have looked at the word and seen that the #1most commonly accepted interpretation of holocaust not that of the Jewish holocaust. My mistake.

[Autotune]

Now, answer this: Is the guild name capitalized?


I want you to go over capitalization of words in your English book, then return here when you understand why you are an idiot.

[pickled_heretic]

If nilbog has chatlogs of them actually making it for that purpose, then great.... get rid of it. From what I understand it is the opposite: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=472242&postcount=4

The guild's name is Holocaust, not The Holocaust. Why are you changing the guild's name to make your argument? Trollocaust.

in case you missed it the first time, particles are an artefact of the English language's isolating past. (google it, you'll learn a few things). they don't convey any meaning by themselves and only exist for syntactical purposes. "A Holocaust survivor" nearly always refers to the judeocide, despite the fact that we don't say "A The Holocaust survivor."

[Odonk]

Now, answer this: Is the guild name capitalized?

good luck creating a guild WITHOUT a capitalized name

[pickled_heretic]

I want you to go over capitalization of words in your English book, then return here when you understand why you are an idiot.

the fact that the name is capitalized might be a consequence of the fact that proper names should generally be capitalized. the Holocaust is a proper name.

[Autotune]

"A Holocaust survivor" nearly always refers to the judeocide,

Only when they are talking about the holocaust of jews. IF they were referring to muslims, native americans, africans or any other group of people, they would not be referring to the jewish holocaust. Thus, they would need to elaborate instead of using a generalized reference to people who aren't complete morons.

Try again.

[Aadill]

o.O

[pickled_heretic]

Try again.

there's nothing to try... encounter someone who says they are a holocaust survivor, and ask them what holocaust. that would be cute.

[Odonk]

in case you missed it the first time, particles are an artefact of the English language's isolating past. (google it, you'll learn a few things). they don't convey any meaning by themselves and only exist for syntactical purposes. "A Holocaust survivor" nearly always refers to the judeocide, despite the fact that we don't say "A The Holocaust survivor."

lmao. back to google he goes for justification. you do know that if more people researched the Armenian Holocaust than the Jewish Holocaust it would appear first in google right? just because there is more interest in the Jewish Holocaust than the Armenian doesnt mean that the Jews have the word on lock down.

[Autotune]

there's nothing to try... encounter someone who says they are a holocaust survivor, and ask them what holocaust. that would be cute.

encounter any historian that makes a reference of a holocaust survivor yet doesn't give reference to time, race, religion, region. There is a great deal of probability that you would be completely wrong in assuming the survivor was jewish.

[Odonk]

there's nothing to try... encounter someone who says they are a holocaust survivor, and ask them what holocaust. that would be cute.

I wouldnt have a problem in the world asking them WHICH holocaust. WHAT holocaust infers the idea that one doesn't believe that it actually took place. douche

[Aruden]

If you took a majority vote about imprisoning Japanese-Americans in interim camps during WWII, the Japanese would have lost. Majority is insufficient with respect to racism that targets a minority.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53259

At least 64 players find the name offensive. What more do the GMs need? Oh wait, we're playing on Project Nazi99.

[pickled_heretic]

encounter any historian that makes a reference of a holocaust survivor yet doesn't give reference to time, race, religion, region. There is a great deal of probability that you would be completely wrong in assuming the survivor was jewish.

only if you lived in another time, and a different place. language is always contextual and always subjective. here, where we are all at, being a Holocaust survivor almost universally means that you were victim of and survived the nazi judeocide.

[Autotune]

only if you lived in another time, and a different place. language is always contextual and always subjective. here, where we are all at, being a Holocaust survivor almost universally means that you were victim of and survived the nazi judeocide.

Wrong again.

There were muslims that survived their holocaust, as well as some native americans. Does this mean those that survived are now jewish?

try again.

[pickled_heretic]

lmao. back to google he goes for justification. you do know that if more people researched the Armenian Holocaust than the Jewish Holocaust it would appear first in google right? just because there is more interest in the Jewish Holocaust than the Armenian doesnt mean that the Jews have the word on lock down.

in that case, i only mentioned google because i'm sure most people don't know what isolating/synthetic languages are.

and yes, if most people used "holocaust" to refer to the armenian genocide, then that's what the word would mean. what is your point?

[pickled_heretic]

try again.

there's nothing to try... encounter someone who says they are a holocaust survivor, and ask them what holocaust. that would be cute.

[Autotune]

encounter a muslim who says his/her ancestor was a holocaust survivor or any native american who also talks about how his/her ancestor survived a holocaust.

Jewish people are not the only ones who have survived hardships.

I sincerely hope you are trolling.

[pickled_heretic]

encounter a muslim who says his/her ancestor was a holocaust survivor or any native american who also talks about how his/her ancestor survived a holocaust.

in both of those cases, i would still not need to know "what holocaust." that's the great thing about context in language.

And in either case - both of these events are still inappropriate for a guild name. this doesn't really strengthen your case, it makes it weaker, and it makes you look foolish. i know you're smarter than that.

[Odonk]

in that case, i only mentioned google because i'm sure most people don't know what isolating/synthetic languages are.

and yes, if most people used "holocaust" to refer to the armenian genocide, then that's what the word would mean. what is your point?

if you are to dense to see the point in this post i pity you. but allow me to spell it out....

HOLOCAUST DOESN'T BELONG TO ONE SECT OR RELIGION. IT IS A GENERALIZED WORD REFERRING TO MASS LOSS OF LIFE WHICH IS TOTALLY APPROPRIATE ON A PvP SERVER.

Is this clear enough?

[Odonk]

hence the reason The Armenian Holocaust also shows up (Regardless of how far down the line) when you do a general search on holocaust in your "all knowing, all answering" google.

[Autotune]

in both of those cases, i would still not need to know "what holocaust." that's the great thing about context in language.

And in either case - both of these events are still inappropriate for a guild name. this doesn't really strengthen your case, it makes it weaker, and it makes you look foolish. i know you're smarter than that.

Then you agree based on context that a guild in Everquest ( a fantasy world ) would not refer to any holocaust so long as the guild name was < Holocaust > ( a generic term ).

As when playing on a MMORPG (note RPG stands for Role Playing Game) where there are not any Jews, Native Americans, or Muslims (or any other real world race/group has undergone a holocaust) then the word is without real world context and should be allowed ( as it has been ).

It certainly did not hurt my "case"

General word used in the #1 most commonly accepted use is allowed. Sorry, try again.

[pickled_heretic]

if you are to dense to see the point in this post i pity you. but allow me to spell it out....

HOLOCAUST DOESN'T BELONG TO ONE SECT OR RELIGION. IT IS A GENERALIZED WORD REFERRING TO MASS LOSS OF LIFE WHICH IS TOTALLY APPROPRIATE ON A PvP SERVER.

Is this clear enough?

the only thing the word belongs to is the English speaking population. most people hear, think of, or use holocaust and think of burning jews and gas chambers. if you want to use the word in another way, you have to provide additional context.

[pickled_heretic]

Then you agree based on context that a guild in Everquest ( a fantasy world ) would not refer to any holocaust so long as the guild name was < Holocaust > ( a generic term ).

As when playing on a MMORPG (note RPG stands for Role Playing Game) where there are not any Jews, Native Americans, or Muslims (or any other real world race/group has undergone a holocaust) then the word is without real world context and should be allowed ( as it has been ).

It certainly did not hurt my "case"

General word used in the #1 most commonly accepted use is allowed. Sorry, try again.

the word, absent any other context and capitalized, refers to the judeocide in nearly every case. the context we have here on p99 is this guild full of retarded trolls who clearly picked the name for its controversial nature.

[pickled_heretic]

holocaust as a guild name? NOT CLASSIC.

[Autotune]

the word, absent any other context and capitalized, refers to the judeocide in nearly every case. the context we have here on p99 is this guild full of retarded trolls who clearly picked the name for its controversial nature.

you are now placing your emotions into the debate and trying to add your own context based on what you feel and what you think. The guild name is not controversial, only when you try to apply more meaning to a word outside of it's most generic usage.

The word is capitalized based on the fact that the name of a guild is a proper noun.

We have gone over this all already, stop running in circles.

[pickled_heretic]

you are now placing your emotions into the debate

being offended is ALL ABOUT EMOTION, because being offended IS AN EMOTION. we were talking about emotions the whole time. if we take emotion out of anything like the word "******" or "coon" or "chink" or any traditionally offensive word, there's nothing to be offended about. should those words then be allowed as guild or character names?

[pickled_heretic]

i have stated several times that i find nothing offensive about the word "Holocaust," just like I find nothing offensive about being called a "******," etc. however, out of deference toward others, i respect that in some arenas of discussion, these things are not appropriate.

i realize that you're a super jaded child of postmodernism, so i don't blame you for feeling the way you feel. i just find it quite poignant that people go out of their way to flame me for having a little fucking empathy for others.

[Odonk]

the word, absent any other context and capitalized, refers to the judeocide in nearly every case.

in nearly every case... so who are you to say this is one of those cases?

the context we have here on p99 is this guild full of retarded trolls who clearly picked the name for its controversial nature.

pot calling kettle black

[pickled_heretic]

in nearly every case... so who are you to say this is one of those cases?



pot calling kettle black

it doesn't even need to be every case. just most of them. intent is not important. I want to make a guild called "coondogs" because i am passionate about raccoon hunting? too fucking bad. the word in the social consciousness means something that is considered offensive to some people, so i can't.

[Odonk]

you are now placing your emotions into the debate and trying to add your own context based on what you feel and what you think. The guild name is not controversial, only when you try to apply more meaning to a word outside of it's most generic usage.

The word is capitalized based on the fact that the name of a guild is a proper noun.

We have gone over this all already, stop running in circles.

finally someone that has caught on to what i said 3 or 4 pages ago

[pickled_heretic]

the word's most generic usage is best represented by a google search. aadill posted some useful references on how to interpret search results, you should seek them out.

[Odonk]

trollololololololololololololololol

[Aadill]

the word's most generic usage is best represented by a google search. aadill posted some useful references on how to interpret search results, you should seek them out.

correlation does not prove causation.

[pickled_heretic]

trollololololololololololololololol

it would be trolling, except nobody has been able to explain away the fact that nearly every single indexed search result for the word "holocaust" (not appended with particles, not capitalized" refer specifically to the slaughter of jews that occurred during and leading up to the 2nd world war.

[Aadill]

it would be trolling, except nobody has been able to explain away the fact that nearly every single indexed search result for the word "holocaust" (not appended with particles, not capitalized" refer specifically to the slaughter of jews that occurred during and leading up to the 2nd world war.

Search Holocaust and then search holocaust.

search results are not case sensitive.

[pickled_heretic]

correlation does not prove causation.

thank you, statistics 101, but there are no statistics here.

[pickled_heretic]

Search Holocaust and then search holocaust.

search results are not case sensitive.

Non sequitur, the guild's name is capitalized.

[Aadill]

GMs I demand you name the guild < holocaust >!

[Diggles]

Non sequitur, the guild's name is capitalized.
You capitalize names regardless of their intentions or the actual wording, this is a bullshit argument

[Autotune]

You capitalize names regardless of their intentions or the actual wording, this is a bullshit argument

[pickled_heretic]

We are referring to two case insensitive morphemes. "holocaust" the search term and "holocaust" the guild name. that is precisely why the search result is so relevant.

[Hasbinbad]

Brilliant troll detected. Pickled Heretic is purposely arguing the STUPIDEST line of arguments against this in order to make everyone think the issue is retarded, just like him.

Thoughts?

[Diggles]

fuck you and the fuck you fucked in on

[Odonk]

it would be trolling, except nobody has been able to explain away the fact that nearly every single indexed search result for the word "holocaust" (not appended with particles, not capitalized" refer specifically to the slaughter of jews that occurred during and leading up to the 2nd world war.

lmao. back to google he goes for justification. you do know that if more people researched the Armenian Holocaust than the Jewish Holocaust it would appear first in google right? just because there is more interest in the Jewish Holocaust than the Armenian doesnt mean that the Jews have the word on lock down.

already been over this as well, 2 pages ago

[Hasbinbad]

Brilliant troll detected. Pickled Heretic is purposely arguing the STUPIDEST line of arguments against this in order to make everyone think the issue is retarded, just like him.

Thoughts?

[pickled_heretic]

Brilliant troll detected. Pickled Heretic is purposely arguing the STUPIDEST line of arguments against this in order to make everyone think the issue is retarded, just like him.

Thoughts?

people have accused me of trolling several times. despite this my arguments are still indefatigable and unassailable.

[Odonk]

at least we can quote previous posts every time he brings up the same shit over and over. confirmed brilliant troll /agree

[pickled_heretic]

it's probably because calling someone a "troll" on the internet is about as meaningless as calling someone a nerd at a dnd convention.

[Autotune]

Brilliant troll detected. Pickled Heretic is purposely arguing the STUPIDEST line of arguments against this in order to make everyone think the issue is retarded, just like him.

Thoughts?

I thought this too, but I have been using it as a reason to not go outside in the cold and take trash off.

It literally is boring now tho, so see you all laterz onz. Enjoy the Skyrim video.

Lyrics after FUS RO DAH:
"HE'S THE LORD"
"FUCKING COOL"
"OH MY GOD"
"ME GUSTA" lol.

[Hasbinbad]

http://i.imgur.com/m7YaZ.jpg

[Kassel]

Why to morans post red server rants in the blue server RNF?

It is almost as bad as OWS

[Diggles]

google confirmed fantastic source

http://twzr.bz/pics/full/p7qib/what-are-these-strawberries-doing-on-my-nipples-i-need-them-for-the-fruit-salad-pic.png

[Odonk]

lulz

[Hasbinbad]

http://i.imgur.com/4I1fz.png

[Diggles]

What, did someone steal your sweetroll?

[Odonk]

http://www.claresceramichideaway.com/images/catalog/full%20sized/whimsical/trolls/trollMiniFull.jpg

[pickled_heretic]

Brilliant troll detected. Pickled Heretic is purposely arguing the STUPIDEST line of arguments against this in order to make everyone think the issue is retarded, just like him.

Thoughts?

how is it stupid? let me walk it through for you. the "true capitalization" of the guild name as a non-proper noun cannot be known, because it is a proper noun. we basically can't know the intent of the guild creator was to mean "Holocaust" or "holocaust." (of course, he'll never admit it was "Holocaust," even if it was).

still, when the possible results are either "Holocaust" or "holocaust," the judeocide is the search result in the overwhelming majority of cases.

once again, that is why the result of this search is so poignant. i keep repeating the same things, because nobody ever really refutes them.

[Aadill]

What, did someone steal your sweetroll?

swee troll

[Autotune]

how is it stupid? let me walk it through for you. the "true capitalization" of the guild name as a non-proper noun cannot be known, because it is a proper noun. we basically can't know the intent of the guild creator was to mean "Holocaust" or "holocaust." (of course, he'll never admit it was "Holocaust," even if it was).

still, when the possible results are either "Holocaust" or "holocaust," the judeocide is the search result in the overwhelming majority of cases.

once again, that is why the result of this search is so poignant. i keep repeating the same things, because nobody ever really refutes them.

wrong. Seach Project 1999 red holocaust. see what comes up homie.

[Hasbinbad]

http://i.imgur.com/4I1fz.png

[pickled_heretic]

wrong. Seach Project 1999 red holocaust. see what comes up homie.

yes, the result is the guild. how is this relevant?

[pickled_heretic]

I don't know what that picture means.

[Hasbinbad]

I don't know what that picture means.
You will.

You wiiiilllll.

http://i.imgur.com/V8R0x.jpg

[Tiggles]

HBB and Diggles should just blow each other and stop posting in RnF

[Diggles]

you're welcome for the avatar you little shit

[Peatree]

I wonder If a guild is created, named "Crackers" and they only allow white people in it, would that be a problem too?

[Diggles]

If I'm a Christian and a guild named "Crusades" is made, am I allowed to be offended?

[Odonk]

If I'm a Christian and a guild named "Crusades" is made, am I allowed to be offended?

only if your muslim

[Messianic]

No one answered my question :(

[ColdFritter]

No one answered my question :(

cuz u ugly

<3