Occupy Wall Street - Success

[vaylorie]

The federal government announced today that it has decided to succumb to Occupy Wall Street demands. Occupy Wall Street leaders were happy to hear the news and said that their hard work has paid off and that they will resume normal showing and general personal hygiene attention. Due to this, the following laws are now in effect.

Capitalism is a crime.
All people regardless of job, longevity, performance or amount of work done now make the same wage.
*****This includes those with the job ‘homeless’, ‘hobo’, or ‘neckbeard’.
College education is now free for all people.
All debt is wiped off the books and forgiven.
*****Including credit cards, mortgages, home equity loans, student loans, personal loans and that $5 that I owe John.
Government health care is provided for all people
*****All those in the insurance industry have been reassigned to be janitors at local high schools
All forms of border constraints have been removed and anyone can travel anywhere at any time. Immigration is no longer a consideration as citizenship now means nothing.
All elections will be done via paper ballot and counted 35 times by ‘trusted’ officials.
All drugs are now legal and encouraged to use.
All exports and imports are deemed evil and are banned permanently.
All campaigns are publically financed
The military is now disbanded
1 Trillion dollars in immediate spending for public works projects
All property is now community property.
Oil and natural gas is now banned from use. Solar and Wind energy are the only acceptable forms of energy generation.
Any company with more than 5 employees is considered an evil corporation and will be dismantled.
Shopping and consumerism is forbidden, the government will distribute food and supplies to all people in an equal and just manner.


Effective tax rate for all people are now 95.2% and the last act of the military is to round up all people with more than $1M of net worth to be jailed indefinitely for crimes against humanity stemming from having possessions that others do not have.

This is a resounding success for all OWS suppors everywhere but a special thanks goes out to the Communist Party USA, Black Panthers, Revolutionary Communist Party, American Nazi Party, Hezbollah, Government of North Korea, Communist Party of China, Hugo Chavez and Ayatollah Khamenei for your dedicated public support.

[Autotune]

tl;dr

[purest]

op is mentally unstable

[Truth]

op is mentally unstable

[Kassel]

I Hate your extremist additude so i will counter you with my extremist additude

[Dfn]

Sounds about right. Occupiers are a bunch of shitbirds.

[Truth]

i often randomly put groups of randomly people into confined blankety terms

like ******s

[jarshale]

op is mentally unstable

[Jimes]

.

[booter]

Either a bad troll or a bad human.

[Dazen]

The federal government announced today that it has decided to succumb to Occupy Wall Street demands. Occupy Wall Street leaders were happy to hear the news and said that their hard work has paid off and that they will resume normal showing and general personal hygiene attention. Due to this, the following laws are now in effect.

Capitalism is a crime.
All people regardless of job, longevity, performance or amount of work done now make the same wage.
*****This includes those with the job ‘homeless’, ‘hobo’, or ‘neckbeard’.
College education is now free for all people.
All debt is wiped off the books and forgiven.
*****Including credit cards, mortgages, home equity loans, student loans, personal loans and that $5 that I owe John.
Government health care is provided for all people
*****All those in the insurance industry have been reassigned to be janitors at local high schools
All forms of border constraints have been removed and anyone can travel anywhere at any time. Immigration is no longer a consideration as citizenship now means nothing.
All elections will be done via paper ballot and counted 35 times by ‘trusted’ officials.
All drugs are now legal and encouraged to use.
All exports and imports are deemed evil and are banned permanently.
All campaigns are publically financed
The military is now disbanded
1 Trillion dollars in immediate spending for public works projects
All property is now community property.
Oil and natural gas is now banned from use. Solar and Wind energy are the only acceptable forms of energy generation.
Any company with more than 5 employees is considered an evil corporation and will be dismantled.
Shopping and consumerism is forbidden, the government will distribute food and supplies to all people in an equal and just manner.


Effective tax rate for all people are now 95.2% and the last act of the military is to round up all people with more than $1M of net worth to be jailed indefinitely for crimes against humanity stemming from having possessions that others do not have.

This is a resounding success for all OWS suppors everywhere but a special thanks goes out to the Communist Party USA, Black Panthers, Revolutionary Communist Party, American Nazi Party, Hezbollah, Government of North Korea, Communist Party of China, Hugo Chavez and Ayatollah Khamenei for your dedicated public support.

Well said

[vaylorie]

I don't get it.... why all the trolling... this is what all the OWS folks wanted right? I thought you would be excited at the thought that all of the things you wanted as a collective movement came to fruition?

It's just based on the signs, interviews, lists of demands, etc. from occupy gatherings around the US..

/shrug
:confused:

[Dazen]

They are just a bunch of douchebags

[Klath]

this is what all the OWS folks wanted right?
No, that's what you want them to be about because it makes it easy for you to ridicule them. It's intellectually lazy but you'll continue to do it because making fun of dirty hippies always gets a chuckle.

Matt Taibbi had a pretty good write-up on OWS in RS.
How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the OWS Protests (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-i-stopped-worrying-and-learned-to-love-the-ows-protests-20111110)

[vaylorie]

No, that's what you want them to be about because it makes it easy for you to ridicule them. It's intellectually lazy but you'll continue to do it because making fun of dirty hippies always gets a chuckle.

It's intellectually lazy to assume that the protesters want what they claim to want? What I posted (with included levity) was straight from the horse's mouth. Instead of looking at what they are saying they want and seeing it for what it is, you are adding into what they are wanting to find some deep meaning and/or just ignoring a large percentage of the protesters and dismissing them as not part of the group. What I posted is literally straight from interviews, signage and submitted 'demands' from various groups throughout the country.

Also, I didn't once call anyone a 'dirty hippie' in my post but I did indicate (factually accurate) that the ones camping out aren't necessarily following generally acceptable personal hygiene expectations.

Again, it's lazy to assume that what someone says they want, they actually want?

[pickled_heretic]

Again, it's lazy to assume that what someone says they want, they actually want?
it's lazy to assume the movement is homogenous. do all republicans want a complete abolition of abortion or a flat tax? do all democrats want to ban guns? are all tea partiers complete loons? you can find members of each party that have said these things, to assume that they represent the movement as a whole is absurd.

[Klath]

It's intellectually lazy to assume that the protesters want what they claim to want?
What is your source for this list of demands?

[Convict]

What is your source for this list of demands?
lol get this bro

This is a resounding success for all OWS suppors everywhere but a special thanks goes out to the Communist Party USA, Black Panthers, Revolutionary Communist Party, American Nazi Party, Hezbollah, Government of North Korea, Communist Party of China, Hugo Chavez and Ayatollah Khamenei for your dedicated public support.

Basically Glenn Beck found our beloved R&F

[Aadill]

http://news.yahoo.com/house-aims-ax-200-million-taxpayer-fund-presidential-110149426.html

“The [public funds] are only relevant if you don’t want to win the presidency,” La Raja said. “It’s just not enough money.”

For example, in the 2008 general election, GOP nominee John McCain took the $84 million in public funds. Obama, who opted out of the taxpayer money, went on to raise about $350 million for the general election.

It was created in response to the Watergate scandal as a way to limit corruption or the appearance of corruption in presidential elections.

I am a member of Occupy Raleigh and I firmly stand against the idea of private donation. It is a shilling of the system. I did not vote for Obama and I will not vote for him this coming year. I firmly stand against this maneuver by the house. I firmly stand for FORCING public funding ONLY. There should be no under-the-table deals and lobbying should be thrown out the window.

I also stand for the following:


*eradicate many of the tax loopholes that currently exist except for standard deductions for individuals/families and standard corporate deductions WHEN APPROPRIATE (I believe there is currently a percentage deduction available). These deductions set a fairly hard line for determining benefit to tax ratios. They are currently off as had been mentioned in another post on these boards in the sense that if you make less than $54k/year you're sucking money out of the system more than you're contributing. With this I would say, lower the standard deductions and rescale the tax code or remove the deductions altogether.

*have short term (I'm talking 10 years short term) approach to bringing jobs back to the US via tax credits. a service based economy is putting a lot of skilled workers out of jobs forcing them into lower service jobs such as retail or high stress commission based jobs such as telemarketing. (I am not in this situation but seriously I know people with engineering degrees that are flipping burgers.. it's ridiculous).

*overturn Citizens United vs FEC. fucking no brainer, seriously.

*reinstate Glass-Steagall (as Volcker rule was a paper tiger). the last time banks were allowed to invest and lend the Great Depression happened. Glass-Steagall was revoked in 1999 and since then the economy has shit itself multiple times.


*limit lobbying to the socialist constructs we currently have that are beneficial to human society such as the EPA (if it weren't also corrupt, this needs fixing) so there are government interests somewhat similar to the New Deal in terms of maintenance of infrastructure, public works, and national parks. I also believe there should be some Federal level of FDA (again hopefully in a non corrupt or at least less lenient capacity). Corporate lobbying should be limited or denied.

*re-institute the Fairness Doctrine that Reagan threw out in favor of private business over the FCC-regulated radio/television airwaves (fair and unbiased news media on publicly available news networks i.e. antenna or rabbit-ear television, public radio etc.. I am NOT referring to cable or satellite radio).

*limit defense spending to just that: defense of our country (defense includes research into technologies that have benefited the public as well as security measures)


What do you stand for, vaylorie?

[pickled_heretic]

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?35710-Tea-Party-loon-arrested-for-child-rape

Tea party endorses child rape!

[Klath]

Protesting the fact that the wealthy are able to game the system to the detriment of everyone else seems like a pretty worthwhile endeavour.

http://i44.tinypic.com/5njfnm.jpg

[Aadill]

Oh yeah and for more controversial topics.. I haven't forgotten them as they are key issues that critics think OWS and other Occupations are all about gimmegimmegimme:

I do not know what to think of single payer healthcare. The problem for me starts with the fact that the costs of things that require health insurance keep going up because there is a collective pool of money from which to grab. The system is inflating itself because everyone has to have it and the influx of new accounts as required with Obamacare has made operations even more expensive. It was a shit move that tried to tie in a socialist construct with only doing a halfassed job at it (the option bill cannot work).

Other entitlements are abused as well. I do not like this. They should be used for people who genuinely need it. Dorothea Dix was shut down a few years ago here in Raleigh. Some of the people who were being sheltered there are now in prison, homeless, or out on their own with no help whatsoever. This is akin to medieval times and the asylums. What the fuck, THESE are the people that need help. Those that abuse things such as EBT, welfare, etc. are the problem. The system itself wouldn't be abused if there was better oversight. These are conditional issues that have cropped up over the years. They are problems that need fixing by repairing the system, not eradicating it. I could maybe go for state-level reproductions of the same system but then you're going into more detail of unequal statehood. That should NOT be the case in this country.

[vaylorie]

it's lazy to assume the movement is homogenous. do all republicans want a complete abolition of abortion or a flat tax? do all democrats want to ban guns? are all tea partiers complete loons? you can find members of each party that have said these things, to assume that they represent the movement as a whole is absurd.

I agree that the movement has no central message. Another point of my initial post here (and other posts on the R&F forum re: OWS) has been that some of the things that OWS 'stands for' are awesome and will be supported almost universally regardless of political party if there was some form of standardization around messaging.

That being said, there is no central message so you say that these aren't OWS tenants and I say that they are. Both of our understandings come from things that we have seen & heard both personally talking to occupiers as well as seeing their signage across camps around the nation.

Don't tell me it's not about these things when this stuff is all over their camps.

[Aadill]

Protesting the fact that the wealthy are able to game the system to the detriment of everyone else seems like a pretty worthwhile endeavour.

Wells Fargo's absorbed branch of Wachovia did just that. They were sued for it the other day:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111129-712747.html

[Aadill]

I agree that the movement has no central message. Another point of my initial post here (and other posts on the R&F forum re: OWS) has been that some of the things that OWS 'stands for' are awesome and will be supported almost universally regardless of political party if there was some form of standardization around messaging.

That being said, there is no central message so you say that these aren't OWS tenants and I say that they are. Both of our understandings come from things that we have seen & heard both personally talking to occupiers as well as seeing their signage across camps around the nation.

Don't tell me it's not about these things when this stuff is all over their camps.

I can agree with this sentiment. It's truly a downfall of some of the larger Occupations. Raleigh is well put together because of smaller numbers and a chance for people to get together and speak in groups. Chapel Hill has done the same in an attempt at something that has been referred to as "visioning," it has promoted a more solidified set of principles and ideas with which to evaluate, but by no means does each person have to repeat what everyone else is saying. Those that are on the fringe tend to get pushed out or walk away when they realize that they cannot promote their message at large. That is a problem in places like Philly or LA or OWS.. not everyone knows each other but the media knows where to pick up juicy bits.

[pickled_heretic]

I agree that the movement has no central message.

so why did you post that tripe in the first place? trying to score a few laughs w/ your friends and people who already agree with you? because you aren't going to convince anyone w/ these childish tactics. take your sophistry somewhere else.

[pickled_heretic]

you can't simultaneously say that the movement has no message while also saying that the message that the movement represents is full of extremist rhetoric.

unless you're a moran LOL

[Aadill]

^ also this. you're reading bias, not evaluating, vaylorie. there is a massive difference.

[pickled_heretic]

http://turbid.com/images/goofy/get-a-brain-morans.jpg

[Aadill]

I have spoken to Tea Party members who are very intelligent and very well put together, who end up agreeing with just about everything the Occupations are saying...but that picture is what the media showed.

[Klath]

IAnother point of my initial post here (and other posts on the R&F forum re: OWS) has been that some of the things that OWS 'stands for' are awesome and will be supported almost universally regardless of political party if there was some form of standardization around messaging.

You should consider adding your voice to support the things you agree with.

[Aadill]

Vaylorie: not everyone agrees because not everyone has the same lifestyle. Much like the Tea Party who was against a centralized government because what was good in California is not good for Texas, OWS is seeing that. I posted what was mainly important to me. I still prefer a more liberal/humanitarian approach to government but I recognize the pitfalls of bad management that tends to come with overreaching government agencies. The guy next to me on the street might be anarcho-political, nationalist communist, libertarian, or just like me.. but we're all pissed that money is entering politics faster than information about it is coming out to keep voters informed.

[Aadill]

^ there's your standardized message.

[pickled_heretic]

http://bastardlogic.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/rick-perry-and-sarah-palin-rally-their-troops_4411024_36.jpg?w=500

[Aadill]

okay that one is just disappointing.

[vaylorie]

you can't simultaneously say that the movement has no message while also saying that the message that the movement represents is full of extremist rhetoric.L

Do I honestly believe that all OWS protesters want the things in my initial post? No. Do some of them? Without question. It is impossible to definitively talk about what OWS really wants because OWS isn't a movement, it is an awareness campaign for literally hundreds of issues. This is the point.

Great, raise awareness, organize if you want to make a difference and stop 'occupying' streets, bridges, parks and talking about port shutdowns, revolutions, brainwashing, etc. if you have no real ability to define success or even clarify what you want changed.

If you have no message and no expectations, you can never define success and I can't relate to a 'movement' that is eternal and can't clarify what they are trying to do. What is the measure for 'corporate greed' being fixed? Etc.

[pickled_heretic]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f-LIpOBEVaE/TksKDtyp4AI/AAAAAAAAASc/daoCJv-3ob4/s1600/05_full_600.jpg

[pickled_heretic]

http://davefactor.blogspot.com/2011/08/signs-signs-everywhere-teabagger-sign.html

[vaylorie]

...

Aadill, you make some good points and I don't have time right now to agree specifically... I'm not opposed to the OWS movement, but I would like actual change and I don't see that coming from OWS.

[pickled_heretic]

fail, here it is again
http://houstontps.org/audio/4995.jpg

[Shiftin]

*eradicate many of the tax loopholes that currently exist except for standard deductions for individuals/families and standard corporate deductions WHEN APPROPRIATE (I believe there is currently a percentage deduction available). These deductions set a fairly hard line for determining benefit to tax ratios. They are currently off as had been mentioned in another post on these boards in the sense that if you make less than $54k/year you're sucking money out of the system more than you're contributing. With this I would say, lower the standard deductions and rescale the tax code or remove the deductions altogether.



I listened to a senior tax partner at a big 4 firm talk on this a couple weeks ago. I'm also a CPA w/ a masters, etc. Believe me when I say that:

This is maniacally stupid and would eviscerate the economy. First, you people have to quit using the word loophole when you mean "tax expenditure" (things written into the tax code which reduce tax revenue collected either by deduction or credit). These are deductions or tax incentives put in place to encourage a specific behavior. You can't be against government encouraging behaviors it deems good through tax law in one breath and advocate huge tax credits for bringing jobs back from overseas in the next, because the principal is the same.

Do you realize what would happen to the real estate, construction, and countless related industries if you removed the mortgage interest deduction (the thirdlargest by overall dollar impact to individual tax revenue)?
They would collapse, almost immediately. Millions upon millions of people would lose their jobs.

I'm pretty sure the top tax expenditure, exclusions for employer-provided health care and insurance, isn't going away. Maybe you want to remove the second biggest in allowing people to put away pre-tax dollars for retirement? Yeah, let's quit incentivizing people to save for their own retirements, I can't see any long term negative effects from that.

After the top 6 or 7 tax expenditures, they to become immaterial on both an individual level and in aggregate to the budget. Removing things put in place to encourage behaviors we deem as a society to be good, either on a moral, environmental or economic level is not how you "fix" the budget or tax code. It's how you further screw the economy.

On the corporate side, the top three things the current administration identified as loopholes, if eliminated completely, only saves 130 billion total over 10 years (not time value adjusted). That's NOTHING.

The tax loophole stuff is talking point nonsense from people who don't actually understand the tax code and the federal budget. I know you're smarter than that, and people who do understand them aren't going to take you seriously if you're leading arguments with idealistic contradictory points which show a lack of understanding of the subject matter. I realize there aren't many people like me as a percentage of the popluation, and you're not really reaching out to us in the first place, but it makes my head explode.

[pickled_heretic]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/z06pdq/racist-sign2.jpg

[pickled_heretic]

http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/save-are-teachers.jpg

this sign makes me sad =/

[Klath]

As long as we're posting funny Tea Party signs...

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1661/imgqro.jpg]

[pickled_heretic]

I listened to a senior tax partner at a big 4 firm talk on this a couple weeks ago. I'm also a CPA w/ a masters, etc. Believe me when I say that:

This is maniacally stupid and would eviscerate the economy. First, you people have to quit using the word loophole when you mean "tax expenditure" (things written into the tax code which reduce tax revenue collected either by deduction or credit). These are deductions or tax incentives put in place to encourage a specific behavior. You can't be against government encouraging behaviors it deems good through tax law in one breath and advocate huge tax credits for bringing jobs back from overseas in the next, because the principal is the same.

Do you realize what would happen to the real estate, construction, and countless related industries if you removed the mortgage interest deduction (the thirdlargest by overall dollar impact to individual tax revenue)?
They would collapse, almost immediately. Millions upon millions of people would lose their jobs.

I'm pretty sure the top tax expenditure, exclusions for employer-provided health care and insurance, isn't going away. Maybe you want to remove the second biggest in allowing people to put away pre-tax dollars for retirement? Yeah, let's quit incentivizing people to save for their own retirements, I can't see any long term negative effects from that.

After the top 6 or 7 tax expenditures, they to become immaterial on both an individual level and in aggregate to the budget. Removing things put in place to encourage behaviors we deem as a society to be good, either on a moral, environmental or economic level is not how you "fix" the budget or tax code. It's how you further screw the economy.

On the corporate side, the top three things the current administration identified as loopholes, if eliminated completely, only saves 130 billion total over 10 years (not time value adjusted). That's NOTHING.

The tax loophole stuff is talking point nonsense from people who don't actually understand the tax code and the federal budget. I know you're smarter than that, and people who do understand them aren't going to take you seriously if you're leading arguments with idealistic contradictory points which show a lack of understanding of the subject matter. I realize there aren't many people like me as a percentage of the popluation, and you're not really reaching out to us in the first place, but it makes my head explode.

SC johnson hasn't paid corporate tax in the last 9 years despite reporting corporate profits in the billions. you can take your "informational seminar," and shove it right up your asshole. thx

[pickled_heretic]

General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1322755275-YbKRs9SKXXOQXQAqGQJV6g

U WOULDNT UNDERSTAND THIS IS GOOD FOR UR ECONOMY I ATTENDED AN INFORMATIONAL SEMINAR THAT TOLD ME SO

[Aadill]

One thing that a lot of people do not understand, and this is a concept that came up when a conservative blogger made a post on our forums about the Tea Party of Richmond complaining about Occupy Richmond not paying the same fees that they did (the Tea Party signed for a non-profit business license and was actually labeled as The Tea Party of Richmond, Inc."):

What we discussed was the fact that when the Tea Party protest in this video amassed thousands of people (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4w8HTrD-cg&feature=related) they left. Protesting for a period of time and then leaving DOES NOT CREATE CHANGE. The Occupations themselves are middle fingers to the government who, in the case of Raleigh, require a protest permit good for only four hours. The government which you are protesting sets the time, place, and manner, for which you may speak out against them.

See why that is a problem? The Occupation has some logistical issues and has made some downright head-shaking mistakes (I'm a fucking backpacker for chrissakes, I'm appalled by some of the methods they are using to inhabit this space) but the point of the Occupation itself is to say, "WE ARE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW YOUR RULES BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT LISTENING."

So, yeah, the space that is being occupied tends to be publicly visible because it becomes a public square, an agora... a forum. It is there to promote discussion. The /facepalm I have is because of the lack of logistics, it's driving people away instead of bringing them in. Again, that's what the media focuses on, instead of the message. Just realize that, first.


Shiftin: Perhaps I should redefine. Expenditures are one thing but let's take a look at the most (in)famous example: Property tax loopholes. Private jets should not be tax deductible. Trademark trading should not allow you to evade property (and sales) taxes:

http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/blogpost/9744635/

[Aadill]

that's actually two examples, shiftin, but you get the point.

[Aadill]

Furthermore i do agree there are a lot of EXPENDITURES that do need to be kept in place to promote certain behaviors. There are others, though, that are being put in place to ALLOW certain behaviors, hence the negative descriptor.

[Klath]

The tax loophole stuff is talking point nonsense from people who don't actually understand the tax code and the federal budget.

Again, the wealthy are able to game the system in their favor. Case in point:

From: G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all)
[...]

A review of company filings and Congressional records shows that one of the most striking advantages of General Electric is its ability to lobby for, win and take advantage of tax breaks.

Over the last decade, G.E. has spent tens of millions of dollars to push for changes in tax law, from more generous depreciation schedules on jet engines to “green energy” credits for its wind turbines. But the most lucrative of these measures allows G.E. to operate a vast leasing and lending business abroad with profits that face little foreign taxes and no American taxes as long as the money remains overseas.
[...]

[Aadill]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republicans-being-taught-talk-occupy-wall-street-133707949.html

How Republicans are being taught to talk about Occupy Wall Street

Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.' Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'

[Shiftin]

I assume you mean depreciation on planes shouldn't be tax deductable like depreciation on any other asset, which I don't really understand. Can you explain why? What impact do you think that would really make on the budget?

[Shiftin]

Again, the wealthy are able to game the system in their favor. Case in point:


Why are you equating GE to the wealthy? Because the people who run it are wealthy? Because the company as a whole is large? There is a problem with scale in general that comes up when talking about things like this, health care providers, etc. People see a massive company that employes thousands and thousands of people making profit in the "million" or "billions" and think it's unfair. They don't look at the actual profit margin that company is operating on. If a sole proprietership made those same profit margins, they would be out of business. When a corporation is doing the same thing on a larger scale at a lower margin, they're suddenly evil if their overall profit has the "illion" in it somewhere.

(No I don't think GE should be able to avoid taxes on foreign earned income, but now you're talking about tax treaty problems, which are even more complicated. This is why the discussion is difficult to have with most people.)

[pickled_heretic]

General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.
General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.
General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

LOL TAXES ARE HARD THATS WHY ITS OKAY FOR CORPORATIONS TO AVOID 100% OF THEIR TAX OBLIGATIONS

[Klath]

Why are you equating GE to the wealthy?

Because it's a huge company that wields massive amounts of money to solve its problems. They can afford lobbyists to bend the law to their favor. My small software company, on the other hand, is stuck with the laws as they are. People and companies with wealth can change the rules. The more they change them the more they entrench their position at the expense of the rest of us.

[Shiftin]

I'm trying to speak in general terms. If you don't like companies getting incentives for "going green" because it's not economically practical without incentives, that's fine. Personally, I don't either. You don't like the way our tax treaties work? That's cool too. I can dig it. Let's talk about those things like human beings.

How about we talk about a national VAT like every other modern country in the world has at this point? That way, you can greatly reduce the individual and corporate tax rates which are so easily manipulated and have the tax revenues be derived at the point of consumption of a good or service.

No? rather talk about GE and it's specific case that is fun to quote over and over?
You can tax GE 100% of it's worldwide earnings and it wouldn't matter at all in the grand scheme of the budget. Think beyond zero level talking points.

[Aadill]

I assume you mean depreciation on planes shouldn't be tax deductable like depreciation on any other asset, which I don't really understand. Can you explain why? What impact do you think that would really make on the budget?

Fair enough. I can concede on that point. It's more symbolic than anything as it's a classic Robin Hood. As far as the second point about evading or misusing the tax code: any thoughts?

[pickled_heretic]

No? rather talk about GE and it's specific case that is fun to quote over and over?
You can tax GE 100% of it's worldwide earnings and it wouldn't matter at all in the grand scheme of the budget. Think beyond zero level talking points.

you think GE is the only firm that is getting away with this? you are wrong... we only know some cases like GE, SC Johnson etc. because they are have corporate offices in states states where their financial information must be made public. legislated tax evasion takes place in virtually every corporation, whether the corporation literally funds the legislative effort itself or simply hires tax lawyers to exploit laws that are already on the books.

you can't trust the legislative process to fix any of this because the legislative process in many cases is what started it. who can you trust? the corporations? when can you ever trust a person to pay more taxes than they are required? our elected officials? nonsense, in many cases they were elected principally via large donations from corporate entities.

there's no purpose to think beyond "zero level talking points" because if the system is flawed on a fundamental level it doesn't matter how much shit you stack on a shitty foundation.

[Aadill]

oh and shiftin i'll use my ignorance of the details of that particular example to prove two points:

1) I don't have a CPA. I don't own enough to make that a priority. the concept however remains at point: not enough people can know about it because no one speaks up which leads to point 2:

2) the point of the occupation (which includes these forums and threads, now) is to have an open discussion. it's not about agreeing or disagreeing with a single message that can fit on a bumper sticker, it's about discussing the problems. thanks for the enlightenment. i never owe on taxes and end up taking the standard deduction which results in a few extra bucks per year. sometimes i get a $1.00 check. I got $15.00 once. I don't shake the tax code books to find the prize like it's a box of cracker jacks

[Shiftin]

I think the trademark stuff is a really interesting case, absolutely. It seems more like a state issue than a federal issue but I'd like to see more about it. The article suffers from the last section where it seems they can't and won't identify what it's actually costing them though. I'd like to see some more hard research. There are plenty of small and symbolic things you could change in the tax code to make people feel warm and fuzzy. My overall point is that those things don't really matter and it's confusing for people to take to the streets to fight for them instead of more concrete and meaningful changes.


I'm not trying to say that there aren't laws and riders to laws, and addendums that got slipped in at the last minute that don't grant special benefits to people all over the place. I *hate* the current rules of congress. I know firsthand how 1 politician can screw an entire industry to satisfy his donors when the UIGEA was officially added by Bill Frist to a bill about port defense literally minutes before it got voted on. I'm totally with you guys on the need for more transparency. Fight those fights and stay on message. Trust me, people will get behind you. Just don't take a scattershot approach at everything that has money, that isn't productive.

[Aadill]

Just don't take a scattershot approach at everything that has money, that isn't productive.

Agreed.


See what I did there?

[Aadill]

Just started reading this..

http://www.racialicious.com/2011/10/03/so-real-it-hurts-notes-on-occupy-wall-street/

This is important because I think this is what Occupy Wall Street is right now: less of a movement and more of a space. It is a space in which people who feel a similar frustration with the world as it is and as it has been, are coming together and thinking about ways to recreate this world. For some people this is the first time they have thought about how the world needs to be recreated. But some of us have been thinking about this for a while now. Does this mean that those of us who have been thinking about it for a while now should discredit this movement? No. It just means that there is a lot of learning going on down there and that there is a lot of teaching to be done.

[roks1]

Capitalism is a crime.
-- k, it's definitely capitalism that's being protested, not inequality... jeje?
All people regardless of job, longevity, performance or amount of work done now make the same wage.
*****This includes those with the job ‘homeless’, ‘hobo’, or ‘neckbeard’.
-- op hates equality
College education is now free for all people.
-- op hates education
All debt is wiped off the books and forgiven.
*****Including credit cards, mortgages, home equity loans, student loans, personal loans and that $5 that I owe John.
-- op has child's understanding on government debt
Government health care is provided for all people
-- op thinks voters are not interested in having healthcare despite evidence on the contrary (Medicare appeared out of thin air, it's true!)
*****All those in the insurance industry have been reassigned to be janitors at local high schools
-- op loves 3rd party payers, as they are clearly involved in medical care and the medical profession and should be treated as such... one moment while I contact Aetna to schedule my checkup at the insurance agency.
All forms of border constraints have been removed and anyone can travel anywhere at any time. Immigration is no longer a consideration as citizenship now means nothing.
-- op thinks that arbitrary lines that change over the course of history should dictate a human being's ability to move around the globe... op clearly not a citizen of the world.
All elections will be done via paper ballot and counted 35 times by ‘trusted’ officials.
-- op believes that blacks and illegals are the only fraud in elections.
All drugs are now legal and encouraged to use.
-- op thinks it has the authority to tell other adults how to treat themselves.
All exports and imports are deemed evil and are banned permanently.
-- op clearly lives in Middle Earth
All campaigns are publically financed
-- op doesn't believe in democracy, because people would fund someone they don't support, in a democracy...
The military is now disbanded
-- op is threatened militarily from rowdy canadians.
1 Trillion dollars in immediate spending for public works projects
-- op does not recall any recovery to have taken place during any time after a depression... history is boring.
All property is now community property.
-- op doesn't want other people to use it's toilet
Oil and natural gas is now banned from use. Solar and Wind energy are the only acceptable forms of energy generation.
-- op has a bumper sticker stating "For every hummer you sell, i will buy 3" with an accompanying "and keep them running!" sticker alongside... also truck nuts. op wonders if oil is generated spontaneously.
Any company with more than 5 employees is considered an evil corporation and will be dismantled.
-- op has a clear understanding of how incorporating a business works, involving deals with the devil and a ouija board.
Shopping and consumerism is forbidden, the government will distribute food and supplies to all people in an equal and just manner.
-- op has infomercials on in the background while posting, in defiance of anti-consumerist attitudes. op has a poster of billy mays in it's living room. op disregards all religious and philosophical warnings about gluttony. op does not want to share.


Effective tax rate for all people are now 95.2% and the last act of the military is to round up all people with more than $1M of net worth to be jailed indefinitely for crimes against humanity stemming from having possessions that others do not have. :rolleyes:
-- http://www.stanford.edu/class/polisci120a/immigration/Federal%20Tax%20Brackets.pdf
--

[Shiftin]

At the end of the day, that's why my life goal is to have enough to "retire" from financial services at 45 and go back to teach personal finance to high school kids. Anything I can do to educate kids about money before they go out and screw up their lives and society because they don't understand it is a huge win.

[pickled_heretic]

At the end of the day, that's why my life goal is to have enough to "retire" from financial services at 45 and go back to teach personal finance to high school kids. Anything I can do to educate kids about money before they go out and screw up their lives and society because they don't understand it is a huge win.

the last thing the next generation needs is an education from the current education. each generation is left further and further in debt, with more individual liberties being sucked away by the establishment. and then the cycle is repeated. the LAST people we need teaching them is people like you.

[Shiftin]

So we're clear before I add you to my ignore list, you think that kids graduating high school would be better off without a course in personal finance than with one?

[Aadill]

the last thing the next generation needs is an education from the current education. each generation is left further and further in debt, with more individual liberties being sucked away by the establishment. and then the cycle is repeated. the LAST people we need teaching them is people like you.

To an extent, I can agree. However I have no evaluated Shiftin's mindset and therefore cannot and will not address him in a vitriolic manner.

WITH THAT SAID: the indoctrination of the American Dream into the majority of the younger generation is starting to backfire as the population continues to grow. What worked 30 to 40 some years ago for our parents does not necessarily work for people of this generation, and it surely will not work for the next generation of young adults entering the workforce. The problem exists in this very concept that doing business as usual is the only option. The insults about lack of personal responsibility comes not at the people protesting but the previous generation who threw caution to the wind in helping teach the next generation how to handle their own problems. Shiftin is at least aware of these problems and is willing to put forth effort. Considering his current discourse and forbearance of undying support for the broken system we live in leads me to believe he's at least capable of pointing out problems in the system that can allow individuals to evaluate for themselves.

[pickled_heretic]

So we're clear before I add you to my ignore list, you think that kids graduating high school would be better off without a course in personal finance than with one?

if you're going to add me to your ignore list, add me instead of announcing it to the world. i certainly don't care, i'm sure that most people don't either.

i'm saying that being taught financial policy by the economic failures that are pushing our country deeper and deeper into debt is bad policy. if you disagree, you are almost certainly part of the problem.

[Shiftin]

Personal finance. What can compounding interest really do to you? How do you know if college / which college is a smart investment for you? Do a rent vs. buy analysis? How does a mortgage work? What are property taxes / how do you do your own short form taxes? How do you save for retirement?

You know, all those evil things.

[Aadill]

Thank you for the conversation vaylorie/Shiftin. I have someone over on another forum/facebook page who are quoting Newt Gingrich and not responding to any conversation whatsoever. When it comes to everyone's future I'd rather learn how I can help and teach it to others than spew insults.

[Shiftin]

Same to you, as always.

[Aadill]

What I really enjoy is the fact that due to the large use of social media (that will hopefully not get affected by SOPA or any other free-speech limiting internet bills), more news is getting out to more people. Yeah I hear the insults about "OH LOOK THEY ALL HAVE IPHONES, etc" but what the fuck would the Arab spring done without mobile phones and twitter? Information got out fast enough because everyone was ready to share it at a moment's notice. Something may happen across the country but you can experience it live via sites like livestream. Even though Facebook is sort of a blunder in the apolitical, non-corporate side of things, it is a HUGE marketing and networking tool.

Shiftin, question: would you have known about the trademark/royalties deal in NC? My assumption is no. I, too, need more details.. but I would have not heard about it had I not checked various Occupy sources.. people are digging up info, reading bills in local state and national houses/senates and dissecting then scrutinizing every thing the politicians do. I imagine that is starting to scare the shit out of some politicians/companies.



My sister came up with the explanation why all of this is happening:

Reality TV has made entertainment go down the toilet. When people lost their source of distraction all hell broke loose.

I blame all of the problems on the Kardashians.

[Shiftin]

Probably not.

And a bill banning the kardashians is change i can believe in.

[Hasbinbad]

I'm a citizen of the USA and a sometimes Oakland Occupier who was tear gassed and flash banged while I was dragging a 17 year old girl out of harms way because she was shot with rubber bullets for speaking truth to power in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is what is important to me:

---

Fuck your CPA Shiftin (not the fact that you're educated, but the fact that you're a cog who's been educated to support the economic monster).

Fuck everyones current jobs and the industries that they support.

Fuck you.

Fuck your credit card and your mortgage.

Fuck your bank.

Fuck the Senators shitting up our government.

Fuck the Representatives doing the same thing.

And the President.

And every fucking non-whistle blower that has ever been a part of this system.

Did I mention: fuck you?

Fuck your guns, I have guns too. And I'm can be more than a little imbalanced after watching youtubes of big dumb jocks in worthless, meaningless blue uniforms beating up highly educated little girls who are trying to fulfill their end of the social contract between every citizen of this country and this countries founding documents to provide a better life for the jocks and their children. Come at me bro.

Fuck your "service" as a mercenary, and fuck your brainwashing.

Fuck every single motherfucker that has ever used a cost-benefit-analysis to give a real person substandard anything, but especially medical care.

Fuck debt society.

Fuck the entire home loan industry. Seriously, kill 'em all.

Tear this whole shit down. Kill everyone who thinks that the old dynasty was a good idea.

Reinstate the revolutionary ideas left to us by the fathers of this country, without the influence of money in politics, and without banks having any power - like they told us.

Stop borrowing any money from anyone. Write them all a big IOU, and explain that although it will be some time before our next payment, we WILL address our debt after we square our house.

Disband the entire military except the few air force video jocks needed to man defensive drones.

Instate a new military order made up of mostly pissed off 20 something militant lesbians, and make all actions based on -isms a crime punishable by a fucking bullet in your head a la Judge Dredd.

Shoot anyone who was involved over an arbitrary level with the old dynasty.

Shoot anyone who was a police officer.

Shoot anyone who was involved in any -ism group, except the black panthers, because black on white racism is OK.

Start a nationalized company called U.S. Standard, which makes everything, at a standard level of quality and the cheapest possible price point, and allow regulated capitalism to compete with that standard.

Completely outlaw patents and intellectual property of any kind.

Assign cheap but safe housing to every citizen. Make this state of affairs legit enough to survive without fear, but uncomfortable enough to make other options very enticing.

Control companies so that other options are not fucking out of fucking reach.

Shoot anyone who breaks any law to get money.

---

Now.. Aren't you glad that the first crackpot theories Occupiers had didn't get immediately seized upon by the entire movement?

I guarantee you that although this list is mostly overblown, it is mild in it's current state compared to the agendas of many of the people who have been most trampled upon by the current system.

Occupy is taking its time. The people who are moving and shaking are carefully considering what our actual goals are to be, once the initial shock of our existence passes.

None of us is stupid enough to think that any of us have real answers at this point.

However, there is a central message of Occupy that is clear, absolutely focused, and beyond debate.

"Shit is fucked up."

If you want us to rush in, more chaos will ensue. What is being done now is measured, intelligent, and effective.

..and that is what you're afraid of.

[vaylorie]

I'm the reason why Occupy Wall Street is not relevant to the masses and will peter out in lieu of an organization capable of pushing reform

+1

[Hasbinbad]

vaylorie (http://www.project1999.org/forums/member.php?u=19975) This message is hidden because vaylorie is on your ignore list (http://www.project1999.org/forums/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

[Aadill]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2011/12/01/massachusetts-ag-slaps-5-big-banks-with-lawsuits/

Attorney General Martha Coakley said on Thursday the lawsuit was filed in state court in Boston against Bank of America Corp, JPMorgan Chase & Co Inc, Citigroup Inc, Wells Fargo & Co and Ally Financial.

If you want to know why Occupy Raleigh and Occupy Winston-Salem mic-checked John Stumpf to tell him why he's a bad leader and why he shouldn't be speaking at the "Executive Series" seminar at business colleges:

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/economics/wells-fargo-lawsuit-summary.htm

30 lawsuits in the one year he's been there. Granted some are from previous years' actions, but do you see a pattern?

Nine previous out of court settlements and court ordered settlements amount to over $1.2B.

[Diggles]

when you were flashbanged was it like Call of Duty where you look around slow and everything is ringing and it kills you if it hits you in the face and stuff?

[Aadill]

when you were flashbanged was it like Call of Duty where you look around slow and everything is ringing and it kills you if it hits you in the face and stuff?

and then you respawn

[Diggles]

killcam for that would be fucked up

[Aadill]

sadly you end up in comas like Scott Olsen, which is fucking ridiculous and ugly. 5 officers in Cairo refused to unload 7.5 tons of US-made tear gas. In the US they can't wait to fucking use it:

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/11/30-4

[burkemi5]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cJD8pZiRIzs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kraftwerk]

vaylorie (http://www.project1999.org/forums/member.php?u=19975) This message is hidden because vaylorie is on your ignore list (http://www.project1999.org/forums/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

I'm so glad you joined me in that club, even I'd we differ on where cuts should be made beyond the military, at least we can agree that vaylorie adds nothing of value.

Also, what do you think of The Fed bailing out Europe and printing more money with their reduction of USD swap rates yesterday? The rumor is it was done to keep a major Euro bank from failing (more bailouts at expense of US taxpayer!). And based on the USD libor market it was probably Credit Agricole. So French bank failures incoming months ahead is my guess.

[Aadill]

adam corolla

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Carolla

Controversies

Carolla has occasionally stirred up controversy due to sweeping generalizations he sometimes makes during unscripted broadcasts, the more notorious being about specific ethnic groups or women. In late 2003, Carolla stated on the air during Loveline that Hawaiians are "dumb." Carolla further elaborated that Hawaiians are "stupid," "in-bred," "retarded" people who are among the "dumbest people we have." These comments were met with anger in Hawaii, and resulted in the loss of radio affiliates for Loveline there.[30]
On the April 4, 2010 episode of The Adam Carolla Show, Carolla referred to Filipino boxer Manny Pacquiao as being illiterate, having brain damage, and being someone who prays to chicken bones.[31] Carolla said of the Philippines, where Pacquiao makes his home, "They got this and sex tours, that's all they have over there. Get your shit together Philippines. Jesus Christ. I mean, again, it's fine to be proud of your countrymen. But that's it? That's all you got?"[32] Filipino leaders, including the office of President Gloria Arroyo, responded to the incident.[31][32] Carolla later apologized via Twitter, saying, "Read your comments. Sorry if I offended many of you. I don't preplan my commentary. I try to be provocative [and] funny but I crossed the line and I'm sorry."[33] Carolla received death threats over the incident.[34]
In August 2011, Carolla attracted the ire of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation after a podcast in which, referring to transgendered people, he asked, "When did we start giving a shit about these people?" The segment was in response to a proposed initiative to have the puppet characters Bert and Ernie, from the children's television show Sesame Street, enter into a "gay marriage." He went on to say that the LGBT moniker ought to be replaced with "YUCK," and that LGBT activists ought to "shut up," and that they are "ruining [his] life."[35] The GLAAD organization also referred to previous offensive remarks by Carolla, including an assertion that, "all things being equal," heterosexual parents are better than homosexual parents. Carolla responded to GLAAD via TMZ.com, stating, "I'm sorry my comments were hurtful. I'm a comedian, not a politician."[36][37][38] GLAAD responded by identifying Carolla's apology as "empty."[39]

[burkemi5]

yeah i mean not trying to really argue just post a funny video. not gonna back corolla just thought it was funny and would fan the flames.

[Aadill]

I understand.. I kinda like Corolla because he *is* a dick, but he tends to go over the top with totally ignorant bullshit when he's not on a script. So basically I'm saying he's not funny or cool when he's himself.

[Dfn]

Occupiers confirmed liberal shiteaters wanting to destroy capitalism in the name of "fairness."

[Truth]

I personally enjoy "bailing out" big banks who lost bets with fraudulent financial instruments so while I'm homeless due to the recession they caused at least the corporate-communists can be fat and fucking happy in their palaces.

[Truth]

Because that's what capitalism's all about

[Dfn]

Because that's what capitalism's all about


Capitlism would/should let businesses that fuck up go out of business. Occupiers should be railing against their government for allowing those businesses to be bailed out. America has been drifting further and further from what capitalism is. But the moron occupiers have a disturbing lack of knowledge of American history and understanding of political and economic theory.

[Kraftwerk]

Capitlism would/should let businesses that fuck up go out of business. Occupiers should be railing against their government for allowing those businesses to be bailed out. America has been drifting further and further from what capitalism is. But the moron occupiers have a disturbing lack of knowledge of American history and understanding of political and economic theory.


Umm, are we both talking about the same Occupy movement? Because the OWS I've seen is against government bailouts of failing banks. Plus the system we have now isnt free market capitalism, nobody is allowed to fail.

[Messianic]

Umm, are we both talking about the same Occupy movement? Because the OWS I've seen is against government bailouts of failing banks. Plus the system we have now isnt free market capitalism, nobody is allowed to fail.

Most people are allowed to fail - just not automakers or banks.

[Dfn]

Umm, are we both talking about the same Occupy movement? Because the OWS I've seen is against government bailouts of failing banks. Plus the system we have now isnt free market capitalism, nobody is allowed to fail.

Yes. Look for my earlier posts about what I've seen at Occupy San Jose. Just this week I've had conversations with sign holders that said "The private sector has failed.", "This revolution won't be privatized.", and someone (cant remember his sign) wanting the government to provide all means of employment bc unemployment is caused by the private sector; they were advocating for MORE government involvement.

Maybe occupy sj is out of touch with the rest of occupy, I don't know. But the occupiers here are usually holding signs that contradict eachother, they are just too stupid to realize it.

[Maddox]

The federal government announced today that it has decided to succumb to Occupy Wall Street demands. Occupy Wall Street leaders were happy to hear the news and said that their hard work has paid off and that they will resume normal showing and general personal hygiene attention. Due to this, the following laws are now in effect.

Capitalism is a crime.
All people regardless of job, longevity, performance or amount of work done now make the same wage.
*****This includes those with the job ‘homeless’, ‘hobo’, or ‘neckbeard’.
College education is now free for all people.
All debt is wiped off the books and forgiven.
*****Including credit cards, mortgages, home equity loans, student loans, personal loans and that $5 that I owe John.
Government health care is provided for all people
*****All those in the insurance industry have been reassigned to be janitors at local high schools
All forms of border constraints have been removed and anyone can travel anywhere at any time. Immigration is no longer a consideration as citizenship now means nothing.
All elections will be done via paper ballot and counted 35 times by ‘trusted’ officials.
All drugs are now legal and encouraged to use.
All exports and imports are deemed evil and are banned permanently.
All campaigns are publically financed
The military is now disbanded
1 Trillion dollars in immediate spending for public works projects
All property is now community property.
Oil and natural gas is now banned from use. Solar and Wind energy are the only acceptable forms of energy generation.
Any company with more than 5 employees is considered an evil corporation and will be dismantled.
Shopping and consumerism is forbidden, the government will distribute food and supplies to all people in an equal and just manner.


Effective tax rate for all people are now 95.2% and the last act of the military is to round up all people with more than $1M of net worth to be jailed indefinitely for crimes against humanity stemming from having possessions that others do not have.

This is a resounding success for all OWS suppors everywhere but a special thanks goes out to the Communist Party USA, Black Panthers, Revolutionary Communist Party, American Nazi Party, Hezbollah, Government of North Korea, Communist Party of China, Hugo Chavez and Ayatollah Khamenei for your dedicated public support.

This is great!

[Truth]

There are definitely more socialistic sentiments at an OWS rally than you would find at a Tea Party thing (read: none), but they are both manifestations of the same populist (slave) uprising. You're going to find dumbasses at any kind of political event because only a dumbed down population would twice elect the idiot son of an asshole and then a naked Marxist revolutionary.

[Maddox]

http://img.memecenter.com/uploaded/1bfcd32d35106b8bf2662a7bb48bdfe41.jpg

[lordyamish]

http://img.memecenter.com/uploaded/1bfcd32d35106b8bf2662a7bb48bdfe41.jpg

and thats why im proud to be a libertarian

[Hasbinbad]

Looks like Fascism wins in that picture..

[Aadill]

This being one of the fundamental issues of OWS, is a small victory of sorts. Even the CONSIDERATION of going to this stage means something may be happening in the political landscape. If this went statewide and CA, TX, NY, and NC followed, there'd be some force behind it: http://warisacrime.org/content/los-angeles-poised-be-first-major-us-city-call-end-corporate-personhood

[booter]

Corporate personhood isn't even the problem though, unfortunately. It's the unlimited corporate money in politics (which was slipped in with the Citizens United ruling).

[EnnoiaII]

Most people are allowed to fail - just notcompanies the people in Congress have money invested in.

Fixed.

[Hasbinbad]

Corporate personhood isn't even the problem though, unfortunately. It's the unlimited corporate money in politics (which was slipped in with the Citizens United ruling).
They are both problems.

This is where Occupy's greatest strength and also greatest weakness lie. There is so much that is fucked up that nobody can really argue with that fact, but we're also not willing to latch on to just one issue - a central demand - so that they can quickly and cheaply patch that up and marginalize us and the rest of the problems.

[booter]

All I'm saying is that everyone sort of freaks out when they hear "corporate personhood" but the main goal is really campaign finance reform. That was what the McConnell rule (that was overturned by Citizens United) was attempting to do.

The idea of corporate personhood is not what many people think - by granting "personhood" to a corporation, the government is prevented rom violating the constitution in their treatment of corporations. This is also what allows you as a citizen to sue a corporation for wrong doing.

[vaylorie]

All I'm saying is that everyone sort of freaks out when they hear "corporate personhood" but the main goal is really campaign finance reform. That was what the McConnell rule (that was overturned by Citizens United) was attempting to do.

The idea of corporate personhood is not what many people think - by granting "personhood" to a corporation, the government is prevented rom violating the constitution in their treatment of corporations. This is also what allows you as a citizen to sue a corporation for wrong doing.


Good point! This impacts things from protecting shareholders from personal litigation, contracts as well as allowing companies to own assets on paper. Corporate personhood was a major driver behind the industrial revolution and economic growth by allowing limited liability for capital investments.

I think OWS would be better to describe their concern as the outlay of money by corporations being protected by free speech as I can't image they really want the abolition of corporate personhood and the major crash of the economy that would follow. Of course, that doesn't fit as well on a piece of cardboard but.. eh.