Does AC do anything on this server???

[MakeYouMad]

Lovely posted this screenshot of melee damage against a caster and against a rogue. Just looking at the numbers, you can tell something isn't right.

On EQ live, the way AC worked is, caster AC softcap was 100, then everything over gave them only like 5%, so putting 1000ac on a caster did absolutely nothing. Chain softcap was 300 then rogues got like 20% for everything over that. If a rogue and wizard both had a displayed AC of 1000, the wizard's true AC would be 145, and the rogues would be something like 440.

The melee damage in this screenshot appears to be entirely random number generated with no regard to either target's AC (JUST LIKE VZTZ). The only difference is the miss rate is way higher against the rogue. Is this some kind of ghetto, custom VZTZ system where AC increases miss rate but doesn't mitigate damage?

Caster DPS is an entirely separate issue, so don't tell me crap like blah blah, casters are underpowered. That has to be addressed separately. What we don't need though, is a caster welfare program where mages tank the same as warriors in PvP, like on VZTZ.

I really hope we're not using ghetto VZTZ mechanics on purpose when working P99 ones could be used.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3978/70172257.jpg

[Vile]

wtb dev answer before server launch.

more testing peons.. more testing..

[Amuk]

you cry so much

[Sprinkle]

ac works , quote the pic of shart hitting the tank and look at his dps vs the caster

clear diff

your not considering the dmg bonus of the 2hs yummy is using

its going to push all attacks up alot

[Doors]

Hes actually right though. Player vs. Player ac values or damage values (plus hit to miss ratios) are still really off.

[mimixownzall]

Uhhh... well... someone might want to recheck my math... but...

I counted the number of hits done to shartstains which were 31. I then added them up and averaged them and came up with 67.35 average damage.

I then counted the first 31 damage hits (not including the bash) and averaged them out on Lovely and came up with 57.32 average damage.

So... the AC mitigation is better on the mage wearing cloth than the rogue wearing chain?

[Sprinkle]

you dont honestly think these devs know how to fix them do you?

you dont think these devs actually consider stuff like this do you?

you dont think these devs even have half the eq experience some of the people here do you?

its blatantly obvious most of them never even played EQ Back in the day , cmon bro

look what they fixed in a month you think they would even know where to start here?


this will be a take what you can get server and ill be surprised if its up before winter holidays

[Doors]

Another quality post by cozmonaught thanks dude.

[MakeYouMad]

I counted the number of hits done to shartstains which were 31. I then added them up and averaged them and came up with 67.35 average damage.

I then counted the first 31 damage hits (not including the bash) and averaged them out on Lovely and came up with 57.32 average damage.

So... the AC mitigation is better on the mage wearing cloth than the rogue wearing chain?

Yea, I didn't even need to add them up to notice the damage was entirely random number generated. Also, 5 misses on wizard and 26 misses on rogue? wtf?

That's why I made this post, I think we're getting more of the Null vision when we should be using P99 mechanics instead.

[Naez 4.20]

I agree with this thread

[Knuckle]

I agree with wehrmacht, AC needs some work.

[Sprinkle]

real devs would take 5 people and conduct a test

5 warriors same weapons and make a parse of them dpsing a mob

then a shaman with banded

then another war

then a caster

then change weapons and repeat

keep healing the target to parse for 10 mins , average results

then do a 2hs weapon , on all classes , front and back of target

then try a mob

then try piercing weapons

then try different armors

and do hundreds of these tests

instead they just gave us a broken server and said here you go here is a cookie let us know how it is

then they take third hand info and make a lol decision and do something once every 2 weeks

what did you guys expect

[Pudge]

sprinkle why dont you 2-box parse it out then if you know how to do it?

[PVPBetaChamps]

There is 0 info to be gained from these retarded "logs". Please fucking learn how to parse information and present it in a way that is somewhat fucking coherent.


edit: this was meant for Lovely's thread, but fuck it I'm leaving it to piss off wehr

[mimixownzall]

There is 0 info to be gained from these retarded "logs". Please fucking learn how to parse information and present it in a way that is somewhat fucking coherent.


edit: this was meant for Lovely's thread, but fuck it I'm leaving it to piss off wehr

Typical VZTZ response. Trashing everyone's test attempts but not showing any evidence of their own to the contrary.

[Silikten]

I also thought that AC lowers the max hit cap. I can clearly see that Yummy's max hit is 108 on both characters. Shouldn't the max hit be lower on the target with higher AC?

Example: 400ac max hit = 108------770ac max hit= 90

Something similar to that? Then an overall lower spectrum of numbers calculated due to the higher AC....

or something!

[Amuk]

I'm personally tired of the crying. This servers pretty fucking good judging from the event, and felt more classic then any emu I've played on. Expecting shit to be 100% perfect after a month of beta, with 100 different opinions people quoting shit from horrible first person opinion threads from 2001. People need to shut the fuck up, especially this Wehrmacht fucker and just go with it, post bugs on the pvp bug forum with good parses and statistical evidence. Character A with this weapon and this much str/attack against etc etc backing it all up with screenshots and large sample sizes because holy shit, EQ is a fucking RNG based game. It's the reason these types of games are barely considered competitive because of the random nature of how shit can go down.

I don't know if this is coherent, but some of the fucking ****** nerds on this forum need to take a step back and realise some shit won't be exactly how your memory of a 12 year old game is.

[gloinz]

I'm personally tired of the crying. This servers pretty fucking good judging from the event, and felt more classic then any emu I've played on. Expecting shit to be 100% perfect after a month of beta, with 100 different opinions people quoting shit from horrible first person opinion threads from 2001. People need to shut the fuck up, especially this Wehrmacht fucker and just go with it, post bugs on the pvp bug forum with good parses and statistical evidence. Character A with this weapon and this much str/attack against etc etc backing it all up with screenshots and large sample sizes because holy shit, EQ is a fucking RNG based game. It's the reason these types of games are barely considered competitive because of the random nature of how shit can go down.

I don't know if this is coherent, but some of the fucking faggot nerds on this forum need to take a step back and realise some shit won't be exactly how your memory of a 12 year old game is.

this zergling number 1795 seems right

[Amuk]

I'm a mini ship from one of the protoss carriers, and cast is the mothership.

[Bazia]

I'm personally tired of the crying. This servers pretty fucking good judging from the event, and felt more classic then any emu I've played on. People need to shut the fuck up, especially this Wehrmacht.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrXUM_DtCm3uS9xBlCywr9fD29NHs6W Ccse5dJ8l00dKpxYYHx

[mimixownzall]

If the VZTZ crowd would just leave the discussion and debates and testing to the real people, these forums would be a lot more helpful.

[Lazortag]

I'm a mini ship from one of the protoss carriers, and cast is the mothership.

They're called Interceptors, NOOB.

[MakeYouMad]

There is 0 info to be gained from these retarded "logs". Please fucking learn how to parse information and present it in a way that is somewhat fucking coherent.

If Mimix's math is right, the wizard in cloth mitigated damage better than the rogue with much higher *real* AC. This is something you wouldn't see even with a small sample size on EQ live.

The real question is, is Null putting in these bogus VZTZ mechanics in place of legit P99 ones on purpose? I was under the impression P99 had already reverse engineered all the important melee combat formulas.

There was a patch that reduced the effectiveness of AC in EQ live PvP, so worst case scenario, if they were missing this information, you could parse the effectiveness of mitigation on the Zek server, then adjust it to compensate for the percent AC was lowered by.

I might do this parse myself. I just don't feel much purpose in doing so if Null is going to alter every mechanic on the server on purpose to create his vision of EQ PvP without caring how normal EQ is supposed to work.


I also thought that AC lowers the max hit cap

No, it's a damage interval 20 system, higher AC only adjusts how often each number occurs. It shifts the distribution pattern downwards.

[Doors]

The real question is, is Null putting in these bogus VZTZ mechanics in place of legit P99 ones on purpose?

Seriously loling right now. Its a conspiracy man, it has to be.

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9416101.jpg

[Diggles]

I'm a mini ship from one of the protoss carriers, and cast is the mothership.

pretty good analogy because motherships are fucking terrible

[gloinz]

Seriously loling right now. Its a conspiracy man, it has to be.

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9416101.jpg


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvqYK0vSyMG2xiAogxkJ_KkiwAWZ6xv n2Nd9gUwryhIHyoPYisJQ

[Bkab]

haha sprinkles banned, makeyoumad up next.

[Darksinga]

I'm personally tired of the crying. This servers pretty fucking good judging from the event, and felt more classic then any emu I've played on. Expecting shit to be 100% perfect after a month of beta, with 100 different opinions people quoting shit from horrible first person opinion threads from 2001. People need to shut the fuck up, especially this Wehrmacht fucker and just go with it, post bugs on the pvp bug forum with good parses and statistical evidence. Character A with this weapon and this much str/attack against etc etc backing it all up with screenshots and large sample sizes because holy shit, EQ is a fucking RNG based game. It's the reason these types of games are barely considered competitive because of the random nature of how shit can go down.

I don't know if this is coherent, but some of the fucking faggot nerds on this forum need to take a step back and realise some shit won't be exactly how your memory of a 12 year old game is.

Typical response from the guy who's hoping/praying AC will remain broken for a boost on his "pvp event winning rogue" *cough*

But back to the topic,

Just from the two logs I can see that it's seriously messed up. The trade off on some classes, like a bard, is your HPs are freakin low but you get to wear plate to boost your AC.

Yeah you could release the server and fix it later, I won't complain because I want to try some winter mmorpgs and more time on R99 the better, but this needs some real looking at.

I don't want this to be another vztz where ac is practically void.

[Lovely]

Well when we did these tests we tested a lot more then these screenshots. What we noticed was that AC didn't seem to change the damage on the hits that actually landed. If you have 400 AC or 700 AC it seem to be hit for about the same numbers. However AC makes the person MISS a lot more that's what it seems to do. If you don't count dodge/riposte/parry etc you'll see a shitloads of more misses on the people with HIGH AC.

[Lovely]

There is 0 info to be gained from these retarded "logs". Please fucking learn how to parse information and present it in a way that is somewhat fucking coherent.


edit: this was meant for Lovely's thread, but fuck it I'm leaving it to piss off wehr

How about you people that don't even play on the beta stfu and go hide in a corner? I'm not trying to post some perfect logs that shows exactly how things are. But when I notice something being a bit strange on beta then ill test it out a little and if it still seem strange then ill take some screenshots and post it here and if the Developers or other players think that the numbers seem to be off then we can just hope that the Developers look into it and test it themselves. (which they have done so far on every point that the peoplez on the FORUMZ have made)

If they think the numbers like this are fine, then fine. If not then we get a little tweak to the system.

[Aesop]

a killshot on a rogue with a 9/19 weapon in a ganksquad means nothing statistically.

[Aesop]

i mean other than the obvious. lol

[Lovely]

Seems like AC make you miss more and Defense skill make you get hit for less damage. Not sure what defense skill Shartstains? Did people that was lvl'd to 50 at the event get max in all skills?

[mimixownzall]

http://www.notacult.com/episode3.htm

This page shows you a lot on mitigation on live.

Notice the damage he getting on the paladin using an 8 dmg weapon (notice the first screen has 'your engulfing darkness spell as worn off' message thus using a serrated bone dirk). He pierces for a max of 11. This is with full shaman buffs (hes grouped with Blart).

Now scroll through the other screens and you can see that against casters he is piercing a lot harder. He is doing upwards of 35 dmg to the clothies. He also does decent dmg against a cleric. I guess the cleric has his class quest armor, which is going to be far inferior to the paladin's planar no-drop stuff AC-wise, since it's not purple and they loot a froggy crown.

I know these aren't logs of 100+ hits, but I think it is still definitive enough to get the idea that AC played a larger part in PVP melee than we are seeing currently on red99.

[Prova]

From what I've seen, Lovely is the only person making any effort at all to do legitimate empirical testing. Without her/him, we would just have a slough of posts describing how 'stuff feels right' or some similarly useless drivel.

So what if the sample sizes are small and the conclusions drawn are skewed from a relatively narrow experience base. This sort of stuff is the backbone of how the game is going to play and feel. We could honestly use more of it.

[Palemoon]

The facts of AC and mitigation/avoidence are out there (and they are not in the first post, his numbers are all wrong and pulled out of his butt), but we don't have any idea what system they are useing here.

From fighting some super green bandits on a lvl 50 buffed/skilled buffed Paladin, I missed my swings way more then I thought "felt" right (theres that word again..).

We have to trust in Null (or whoever) in running parses to make sure his forumula is working right. Its hard to just look at the small picture, Null is the one that has to look at the system from the outside, as a whole, to make sure everything is balanced.

[Wonton]

how do you ignore someone on forums ?

[Atmas]

Do any of you know how the current AC code works and have suggestions or are you just bitching? I think AC needs some changes but provide more than just "it's broken braw"

In any case you can't just add up the first 31 hits or whatever. Let me ask if you are aware of what a 0 hit gets registered as? I'm pretty sure there is another thread that details they appear just as misses. So in essence you eliminating fully mitigated damage from your equation.

[jrwriter]

Remember the characters can sit to gaurantee a hit

[Lovely]

Oh and I forgot to add one thing. If you sit and get attacked by a player then you won't get hit for max damage, it will count as a regular standing hit.

I assume you're suppose to be dealt max damage when sitting. It's always been the case when I played this game at least.

[Melveny]

Oh and I forgot to add one thing. If you sit and get attacked by a player then you won't get hit for max damage, it will count as a regular standing hit.

I assume you're suppose to be dealt max damage when sitting. It's always been the case when I played this game at least.

This is very true, was a rogue on live. Was a rogues dream to come across casters medding and one shotting them. First hit always did max dmg, following hits hit as normal. In the case of double Backstab, first would land for max and second for normal.

[mimixownzall]

Do any of you know how the current AC code works and have suggestions or are you just bitching? I think AC needs some changes but provide more than just "it's broken braw"

In any case you can't just add up the first 31 hits or whatever. Let me ask if you are aware of what a 0 hit gets registered as? I'm pretty sure there is another thread that details they appear just as misses. So in essence you eliminating fully mitigated damage from your equation.

I see what you're getting at, but there is little doubt that the hits, themselves, that land should be doing less damage on average on a higher AC person who is wearing chain as oppose to cloth, adding the misses or not. If you try to justify the misses as making up for the obvious flaw in what the damage of the hits are you are sadly mistaken.

[Null]

I literally touched nothing in the mitigation code because I figured testing done by players on beta would provide much better results than anything I could do by myself. In the small amount of mitigation testing I did before betas release it appeared that AC was having an impact on damage.

Nothing was said prior to the event about AC or mitigation in general and the resist code was getting mostly positive feedback aside from 'its not classic'. We dumped large amounts of high level gear into the population, shifting people out of low-medium gear levels into best in slot situations and dregs freak out because shit isn't working flawlessly.

Thats the whole damn point of beta guys, you need to chill the fuck out.

[nerfed]

Nerfed - 50 cleric (717 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 909 attack)
Same weapon (Enameled Black Mace 8dmg/28dly). Ranger has fire beetle in off hand.

[Tue Nov 01 18:05:46 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:46 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:49 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:50 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:54 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:55 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] You crush Slayer for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:00 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:00 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:03 2011] You crush Slayer for 3 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:03 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:06 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:06 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:09 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:11 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:11 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:12 2011] You crush Slayer for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:12 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:13 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:13 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] You crush Slayer for 6 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:17 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:17 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:19 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:20 2011] You crush Slayer for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:20 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:25 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:26 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:26 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:27 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:29 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:29 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] You crush Slayer for 7 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:33 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:33 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:34 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:35 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 28 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:40 2011] You crush Slayer for 3 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:40 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:41 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:41 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:43 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:44 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:44 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:45 2011] You crush Slayer for 7 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:45 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:46 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:51 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:54 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:56 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:57 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:57 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:58 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:00 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:00 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:04 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:04 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:05 2011] You crush Slayer for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:05 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:08 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:10 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:11 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:11 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:12 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:16 2011] You crush Slayer for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:16 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] You crush Slayer for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:21 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:22 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:23 2011] Your resist poison fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:25 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:25 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:27 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:28 2011] You crush Slayer for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:28 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:29 2011] Your resist disease fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:30 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:33 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:33 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Your resist magic fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:36 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:36 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nerfed - 50 cleric (634 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 1073 attack)

[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:39 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:40 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:40 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] You crush Slayer for 11 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:44 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:45 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:46 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 42 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:51 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:51 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:56 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:56 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:59 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:59 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:00 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:02 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:02 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:05 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:11 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:12 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:13 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:15 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:16 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] You crush Slayer for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 37 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:22 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:25 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer parries!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:25 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] You crush Slayer for 2 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:30 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] You crush Slayer for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 26 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:35 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:36 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:37 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] You crush Slayer for 17 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:41 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:41 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:43 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:43 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:44 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:44 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:45 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:45 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.

[Titanuk]

more testing peons.. more testing..

[Crenshinabon]

Nerfed, that just shows that a ranger melee skill pwns a clerics which should be the case......

Someone who can should go up against another of the same class who is naked using same weapon vs you being armored and having higher ac. That would be a very good test.

Like you 50 cleric, enamled black mace 700 ac vs a 50 cleric, same weapon, naked with super low ac.

[PVPBetaChamps]

it shows nothing, thats not parsing any relevant sample size. have you people ever had a statistics class in middle school? all info you need to understand this concept is learned there.

[Amuk]

I literally touched nothing in the mitigation code because I figured testing done by players on beta would provide much better results than anything I could do by myself. In the small amount of mitigation testing I did before betas release it appeared that AC was having an impact on damage.

Nothing was said prior to the event about AC or mitigation in general and the resist code was getting mostly positive feedback aside from 'its not classic'. We dumped large amounts of high level gear into the population, shifting people out of low-medium gear levels into best in slot situations and dregs freak out because shit isn't working flawlessly.

Thats the whole damn point of beta guys, you need to chill the fuck out.

This is what pisses me off about the trolls claiming that Null has this hidden agenda to implement vz/tz shit and he's trying to manipulate his own version of classic. New flash mother fuckers, most peoples version of classic is different and you're expecting one guy who - who's volunteering, to fix everything after a month and please a wide range of opinions.

Yeah Darksinga, I was really the mvp of that event, it wasn't the healers/bard/necro and I'm trying to fight for rogues to be OP - infact I find it hilarious if people read that post and make a rogue because of it, enjoy retards you just got majorly trolled.

[PVPBetaChamps]

\
I don't want this to be another vztz where i was anally penetrated by every guild and player on the box because I was terrible

fyp

[Null]

Nerfed, that just shows that a ranger melee skill pwns a clerics which should be the case......

Someone who can should go up against another of the same class who is naked using same weapon vs you being armored and having higher ac. That would be a very good test.

Like you 50 cleric, enamled black mace 700 ac vs a 50 cleric, same weapon, naked with super low ac.

The goal of that log was to see if AC and ATK were having a noticeable impact damage output, not to actually figure out what the gains were (hence the small sample). All that it needs to show is that the ranger (or rogue or warrior in the other logs) were getting an increase in damage output from large differences in AC and ATK.

The big thing that I am noticing is that AC and ATK is pretty constant among players (probably due to wearing a bunch of resist gear). I do not remember a whole hell of a lot about AC and ATK numbers from back then. Was this the case and if it was, did the weapon/defensive skills seperate melee classes from casters or was there an underline mechanic in place that made sure melees hit harder than casters?

I guess what I am asking is IF a melee and a caster had the same stats, weapon and skills, would the melee still hit on average harder than the caster?

[Shamanx]

I guess what I am asking is IF a melee and a caster had the same stats, weapon and skills, would the melee still hit on average harder than the caster?

If everything was similar across the board, I believe the damage would be even, sans double attack. There was a good reason Rod of Annihilation (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=154) was removed from the game.

[Salty]

real devs would take 5 people and conduct a test

5 warriors same weapons and make a parse of them dpsing a mob

then a shaman with banded

then another war

then a caster

then change weapons and repeat

keep healing the target to parse for 10 mins , average results

then do a 2hs weapon , on all classes , front and back of target

then try a mob

then try piercing weapons

then try different armors

and do hundreds of these tests

instead they just gave us a broken server and said here you go here is a cookie let us know how it is

then they take third hand info and make a lol decision and do something once every 2 weeks

what did you guys expect

Sprinkle got banned for this post.

I call Nazi shenanigans.

[chuck]

Guineapig sighting?

[PVPBetaChamps]

thank god

[mimixownzall]

I literally touched nothing in the mitigation code because I figured testing done by players on beta would provide much better results than anything I could do by myself. In the small amount of mitigation testing I did before betas release it appeared that AC was having an impact on damage.

Nothing was said prior to the event about AC or mitigation in general and the resist code was getting mostly positive feedback aside from 'its not classic'. We dumped large amounts of high level gear into the population, shifting people out of low-medium gear levels into best in slot situations and dregs freak out because shit isn't working flawlessly.

Thats the whole damn point of beta guys, you need to chill the fuck out.

We are, Null, we are just trying to provide some info but the doomsayers (VZTZ fanbois) keep butting in with their tin-foil hats thinking we are trashing you (well, maybe tmoney is) but lovely and I have been nothing but positive.

The simple fact is that out of the people who played beta hard core there were like a handful of melee around. That is not your fault. There simply weren't enough melee testers to get anything done in the melee/ac department.

[Treats]

The goal of that log was to see if AC and ATK were having a noticeable impact damage output, not to actually figure out what the gains were (hence the small sample). All that it needs to show is that the ranger (or rogue or warrior in the other logs) were getting an increase in damage output from large differences in AC and ATK.

The big thing that I am noticing is that AC and ATK is pretty constant among players (probably due to wearing a bunch of resist gear). I do not remember a whole hell of a lot about AC and ATK numbers from back then. Was this the case and if it was, did the weapon/defensive skills seperate melee classes from casters or was there an underline mechanic in place that made sure melees hit harder than casters?

I guess what I am asking is IF a melee and a caster had the same stats, weapon and skills, would the melee still hit on average harder than the caster?

Yes, defensive skill separated AC on different classes. First you have to understand how AC was actually determined. There are two different values on AC. Mitigation and Avoidance.

Avoidance works the same for all classes. The same numbers are used no matter if you are a Monk or an Enchanter. The only difference is having a HIGHER defensive skill. Here is the formula (T is Agility):

Avoidance = (T from table) + (Defense * 16/9), but never less than 0

Mitigation is a lot different. Melee have a different bonus applied to RAW AC than Casters do. It is also different for spell buffs. Defense skill is also calculated differently. Formula:

Caster Mitigation = (Buffs/3) + (Defense/2) + (Equipment + 1)
Melee Mitigation = (Buffs/4) + (Defense/3) + (Equipment * 4/3)

It is also important to note that there was NO SOFTCAP on AC until after Velious, only the Hardcap.

I made a pretty extensive post here trying to explain how AC should work. This should be able to help you with most of your questions about it. I have to agree that it should be fixed before the PVP server is made live.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48312

[Lovely]

To long didn't read. But it seems like you guys got it handled good job Treats :p

[Knuckle]

Nerfed - 50 cleric (717 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 909 attack)
Same weapon (Enameled Black Mace 8dmg/28dly). Ranger has fire beetle in off hand.

[Tue Nov 01 18:05:46 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:46 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:49 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:50 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:52 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:54 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:55 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] You crush Slayer for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:05:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:00 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:00 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:03 2011] You crush Slayer for 3 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:03 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:06 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:06 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:09 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:11 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:11 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:12 2011] You crush Slayer for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:12 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:13 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:13 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] You crush Slayer for 6 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:15 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:17 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:17 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:19 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:20 2011] You crush Slayer for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:20 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:23 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:25 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:26 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:26 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:27 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:29 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:29 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] You crush Slayer for 7 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:31 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:33 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:33 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:34 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:35 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 28 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:40 2011] You crush Slayer for 3 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:40 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:41 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:41 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:43 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:44 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:44 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:45 2011] You crush Slayer for 7 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:45 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:46 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:48 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:51 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:54 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:56 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:57 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:57 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:58 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:06:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:00 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:00 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:02 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:04 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:04 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:05 2011] You crush Slayer for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:05 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:08 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:10 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:11 2011] You crush Slayer for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:11 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:12 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:14 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:16 2011] You crush Slayer for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:16 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] You crush Slayer for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:19 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:21 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:22 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:23 2011] Your resist poison fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:25 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:25 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:27 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:28 2011] You crush Slayer for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:28 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:29 2011] Your resist disease fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:30 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:33 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:33 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Your resist magic fades.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:36 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:36 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:07:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nerfed - 50 cleric (634 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 1073 attack)

[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:39 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:40 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:40 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] You crush Slayer for 11 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:42 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:44 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:45 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:46 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 42 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:48 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:51 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:51 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:52 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:54 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:56 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:56 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:58 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:59 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:15:59 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:00 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:02 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer dodges!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:02 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:04 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:05 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:06 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:08 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:10 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:11 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:12 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:13 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:15 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:16 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:17 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] You crush Slayer for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:19 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:21 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 37 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:22 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:23 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:25 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer parries!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:25 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] You crush Slayer for 2 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:27 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:29 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:30 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:31 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] You crush Slayer for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:34 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 26 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:35 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:35 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:36 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:37 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:37 2011] Slayer tries to crush YOU, but misses!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] You crush Slayer for 17 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:39 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:41 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:41 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:43 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:43 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 38 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:44 2011] You crush Slayer for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:44 2011] YOU are pierced by thorns!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:45 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:45 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but miss!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 30 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:47 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:50 2011] You try to crush Slayer, but Slayer ripostes!
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Tue Nov 01 18:16:52 2011] Slayer crushes YOU for 24 points of damage.

this is such a fucking stupid test, you decreased the rangers attack rating as you increased the clerics armor rating. You didnt even alter the clerics attack rating or armor in either fight so of course he hits for the same in each fight, which lends the question, why the fuck are you spamming up your logs with your cleric hitting the ranger? We know clerics hit for less than rangers, their god damn skill caps dont go to 210 like rangers you newb.

So instead of an independent variable with clearly defined goals in your test, you leave a mishmash of fucking autoattacks from both toons with no isolated stats, you changed attack rating AND armor so we don't know which stat is effecting the rangers damage.

Nerfed - 50 cleric (634 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 1073 attack)

Nerfed - 50 cleric (717 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 909 attack)

[Bkab]

Yea, Slayer and Nerfed didn't follow Null's instructions yesterday while we were testing ac/atk at all. /facepalm

[Nirgon]

I support forum bans for troll-tards.

[nerfed]

Yea, Slayer and Nerfed didn't follow Null's instructions yesterday while we were testing ac/atk at all. /facepalm

Hey idiot you realize he was testing different scenarios right? The only thing I didn't follow was where to post it because of misinformation.

this is such a fucking stupid test, you decreased the rangers attack rating as you increased the clerics armor rating. You didnt even alter the clerics attack rating or armor in either fight so of course he hits for the same in each fight, which lends the question, why the fuck are you spamming up your logs with your cleric hitting the ranger? We know clerics hit for less than rangers, their god damn skill caps dont go to 210 like rangers you newb.

So instead of an independent variable with clearly defined goals in your test, you leave a mishmash of fucking autoattacks from both toons with no isolated stats, you changed attack rating AND armor so we don't know which stat is effecting the rangers damage.

Nerfed - 50 cleric (634 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 1073 attack)

Nerfed - 50 cleric (717 armor 759 attack )
Slayer - 50 ranger (719 armor and 909 attack)

The 2nd set clearly wasn't about the clerics damage. Re-read null's post.

All that it needs to show is that the ranger (or rogue or warrior in the other logs) were getting an increase in damage output from large differences in AC and ATK.