Latest scientific consensus on intelligence, does it justify racism?

[MakeYouMad]

editors note: This post is not inherently racist, it's the presentation of the current consensus on intelligence. It's up to the viewer to decide if this information justifies racist views or if you believe all humans are equal after reading it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intelligence

Mainstream Science on Intelligence was a public statement issued by a group of academic researchers in fields allied to intelligence testing that claimed to present those findings widely accepted in the expert community. It was originally published in the Wall Street Journal on December 13, 1994 as a response to what the authors viewed as the inaccurate and misleading reports made by the media regarding academic consensus on the results of intelligence research in the wake of the appearance of The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray earlier the same year. It was drafted by professor of psychology Linda Gottfredson and signed by Gottfredson and 51 other university professors specializing in intelligence and related fields, including around one third of the editorial board of the journal Intelligence,[1] in which it was subsequently reprinted in 1997


1. "Intelligence is a very general mental capability ... it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings ..."
2. "Intelligence, so defined, can be measured, and intelligence tests measure it well. They are among the most accurate (in technical terms, reliable and valid) of all psychological tests and assessments."
3. "While there are different types of intelligence tests, they all measure the same intelligence."
4. "The spread of people along the IQ continuum ... can be represented well by the ... ‘normal curve'."
5. "Intelligence tests are not culturally biased"
6. "The brain processes underlying intelligence are still little understood"
7. "Members of all racial-ethnic groups can be found at every IQ level"
8. "The bell curve for whites is centered roughly around IQ 100; the bell curve for American blacks roughly around 85; and those for different subgroups of Hispanics roughly midway between those for whites and blacks. The evidence is less definitive for exactly where above IQ 100 the bell curves for Jews and Asians are centered"
9. "IQ is strongly related, probably more so than any other single measureable human trait, to many important educational, occupational, economic, and social outcomes ... Whatever IQ tests measure, it is of great practical and social importance"
10. "A high IQ is an advantage because virtually all activities require some reasoning and decision-making"
11. "The practical advantages of having a higher IQ increase as life’s settings become more complex"
12. "Differences in intelligence certainly are not the only factor affecting performance in education, training, and complex jobs ... but intelligence is often the most important"
13. "Certain personality traits, special talents, [etc] are important ... in many jobs, but they have narrower (or unknown) applicability or ‘transferability’ across tasks and settings compared with general intelligence"
14. "Heritability estimates range from 0.4 to 0.8 ... indicating genetics plays a bigger role than environment in creating IQ differences"
15. "Members of the same family also tend to differ substantially in intelligence"
16. "That IQ may be highly heritable does not mean that it is not affected by the environment ... IQs do gradually stabilize during childhood, however, and generally change little thereafter"
17. "Although the environment is important in creating IQ differences, we do not know yet how to manipulate it"
18. "Genetically caused differences are not necessarily irremediable"
19. "There is no persuasive evidence that the IQ bell curves for different racial-ethnic groups are converging"
20. "Racial-ethnic differences in IQ bell curves are essentially the same when youngsters leave high school as when they enter first grade ... black 17-year-olds perform, on the average, more like white 13-year-olds"
21. "The reasons that blacks differ among themselves in intelligence appear to be the same as those for why whites ... differ among themselves"
22. "There is no definitive answer as to why bell curves differ across racial-ethnic groups. The reasons for these IQ differences between groups may be markedly different from the reasons for why individuals differ among themselves within any particular group"
23. "Racial-ethnic differences are somewhat smaller but still substantial for individuals from the same socio-economic backgrounds"
24. "Almost all Americans who identify themselves as black have white ancestors – the white admixture is about 20% ... research on intelligence relies on self-classification into distinct racial categories"
25. "The research findings neither dictate nor preclude any particular social policy, because they can never determine our goals. They can, however, help us estimate the likely success and side-effects of pursuing those goals via different means."

[MakeYouMad]

(reserved)

Posting my review on the science here and leaving original post as the scientific facts only.

[Connador]

You can't edit on RnF, foo'

[JayDee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGpoEPcmOK4

[Anger]

A way to eliminate racism, as quoted by Morgan Freeman himself (a black man, for all you 4chan CP-faggots),

"Just stop talking about it. I'm gonna stop calling you a white man....and I'm gonna ask you to stop calling me a black man."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

THE MOST REAL THING ALL YOU BLACK FOLK HAVE EVER SEEN. ITS BECAUSE HE'S ONE OF YOU TOO.

[MakeYouMad]

A way to eliminate racism, as quoted by Morgan Freeman himself

"Just stop talking about it. I'm gonna stop calling you a white man....and I'm gonna ask you to stop calling me a black man."


I guess you didn't read anything from the consensus above. We live in an information based economy now where things like high IQ are important. The consensus shows there's a 15-20% IQ deficit in race that is not related to economic status and is genetic based.

This means if you continue on the current road as our civilization advances, you will end up with one of the following possibilities: a permanent unemployable class, a permanent welfare class, a permanent janitor class, or permanent criminal class due to inability to be employed.

Also, factor in the lower IQ demographics are reproducing faster than higher ones, which by definition is regression of civilization. This brings up questions like, should anything be done to prevent it? If a permanent lower class exists, dominated mostly by one ethnic group, it's obviously going to lead to huge problems as they increase in population. They'll use their numbers to lobby for socialism, to take wealth from other populations, or just flat out try to violently overthrow them out of spite.

Your suggestion of "ignoring" this whole thing is rather hilarious when it's obvious the problems are just getting started. At the very least, pretending like there is no problem will result in substantial decline for civilization in general due to the above reasons.

[Anger]

I guess you didn't read anything from the consensus above. We live in an information based economy now where things like high IQ are important. The consensus shows there's a 15-20% IQ deficit in race that is not related to economic status and is genetic based.

This means if you continue on the current road as our civilization advances, you will end up with one of the following possibilities: a permanent unemployable class, a permanent welfare class, a permanent janitor class, or permanent criminal class due to inability to be employed.

Also, factor in the lower IQ demographics are reproducing faster than higher ones, which by definition is regression of civilization. This brings up questions like, should anything be done to prevent it? If a permanent lower class exists, dominated mostly by one ethnic group, it's obviously going to lead to huge problems as they increase in population. They'll use their numbers to lobby for socialism, to take wealth from other populations, or just flat out try to violently overthrow them out of spite.

Your suggestion of "ignoring" this whole thing is rather hilarious when it's obvious the problems are just getting started. At the very least, pretending like there is no problem will result in substantial decline for civilization in general due to the above reasons.

Man, I read your post. And reread the post above. And I REALLY want to post an intellectual retort. Take it as a troll or not, up to you. I get it. But I can't help but kill this thread.

Black people don't play Everquest as good as white people. These are facts. This isn't even a race thing, but...from my own personal experiences...they are more stingy in EC then the white person economy. I'd offer them a ride but...we all know how that goes. They try to sell me cheap things that are obviously worth more money then they offer (as proven through vent), and then they try to get their dealer (Bob) involved too. Blacks. Them there Blacks. I'm going to log in to a notification from da' Pig when I wake up. But yeah.

[Anger]

White people turn up the treble. Black people turn up the bass.

SGT SLICK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VoERlcRK7M

[Tiggles]

Favorite thread on RnF right now. Good work

[Tommy_Wiseau]

wormcheck still bellcurve trolling

yawn

[Csihar]

What is your actual goal? To convince people that your point of view is correct and hope they resort to some form of action? Or is it more about finding peers?

[jilena]

It's not like they are ever going to do anything about this.

[Humerox]

asians are higher on the curve than whites. forget that tidbit?

[pickled_heretic]

asians are higher on the curve than whites. forget that tidbit?

yes, it's true. is there a problem?

[Humerox]

yes, it's true. is there a problem?

absolutely not. i'm jus' a dumbass white boy.

:D

[jilena]

Jews are the master race? Obv jewish conspiracy is obv.

Also, when they test asians, are they testing random hick asians in china or they testing the ones that were smart enough to move to a non-asian country?

[Humerox]

hell...the chinese have more honor roll students than the US has in population.

personally i'm brushing up on my cantonese for the real NWO

[pickled_heretic]

Jews are the master race? Obv jewish conspiracy is obv.

Also, when they test asians, are they testing random hick asians in china or they testing the ones that were smart enough to move to a non-asian country?

the group that the bell curve used was specifically far east asians, though they didn't specify any subgroup beyond that.

[Peatree]

IMO Racism is never justified. It is a choice to hate someone simply because they are a certain way. However, IMO prejudice is justified. We as humans "pre juduge" everyone and everything we meet. How a person/thing behanves towards the other then defines whether or not prejudice is justified.

[pickled_heretic]

IMO Racism is never justified. It is a choice to hate someone simply because they are a certain way. However, IMO prejudice is justified. We as humans "pre juduge" everyone and everything we meet. How a person/thing behanves towards the other then defines whether or not prejudice is justified.

racism is prejudice based on race.

[Pico]

IMO Racism is never justified. It is a choice to hate someone simply because they are a certain way. However, IMO prejudice is justified. We as humans "pre juduge" everyone and everything we meet. How a person/thing behanves towards the other then defines whether or not prejudice is justified.

see i never prejudged you just because you had gaping open sores on your face. that would be wrong. but after you post cringeworthy, painfully dumb stuff like this that's when i can accurately judge u as a neocon moran

[bonehand]

I am equally racist to all races. Especially whites, blacks, hispanics, and asians. I go out of my way to dislike people based solely on their shoe choice, dress shirt color, and wing sauce preference. I don't like most people in fact, even the hot ones. During the inevitable zombie apocolypse I may change my mind, till then, I hate everyone.

[degenvf]

I am equally racist to all races. Especially whites, blacks, hispanics, and asians. I go out of my way to dislike people based solely on their shoe choice, dress shirt color, and wing sauce preference. I don't like most people in fact, even the hot ones. During the inevitable zombie apocolypse I may change my mind, till then, I hate everyone.

rofl.

OnT:

"Racism, the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason"
I choose at the least ten other reason to hate an random person.

Another thing that always bothered me, all these dumb racist fucks always ranting about intelligence levels.
It's like when random people worry so much about over population. If you are really that worried , just put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger bud, no worries.

[Tommy_Wiseau]

Here's your excuse to ban this shitposting faggot, admins. You can still redeem yourselves.

[naez]

blackies vein is bigger than whiteys pene

[Hasbinbad]

Here's your excuse to ban this shitposting faggot, admins. You can still redeem yourselves.
Bit chilly where you are eh?

[Tommy_Wiseau]

80 degrees and i'm sunburned

meanwhile ur finna be banned

[guineapig]

You could have just linked the entire Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intelligence

And why are we making R&F posts about Wikipedia articles anyway?

[Diggles]

guineeapig why did you clean up hasbinbad's nudity post like it didn't happen and not ban him for it?

[Tommy_Wiseau]

ban diggles for discussing confidential staff business

[Diggles]

i have an application to be a guide it's totally cool

[Hasbinbad]

He didn't ban me because he thinks you racist twats should die in a fucking fire, and me bringing up the fact that you're mad that you have little dicks is hilarious.

Bitch.

[Diggles]

mad

[naez]

fat

[Aenor]

The consensus shows there's a 15-20% IQ deficit in race that is not related to economic status and is genetic based.

Read your own shit.

23. "Racial-ethnic differences are somewhat smaller but still substantial for individuals from the same socio-economic backgrounds"

Economic status makes a difference.

18. "Genetically caused differences are not necessarily irremediable"

Look up irremediable.

[jilena]

Intelligence based racism or not, everyone knows you walk on the other side of the street when you see black people coming toward you. Just to have that head start. Because they run faster than you do.

[naez]

latest gallup poll shows 60% of black people cant swim so if being chased dive out into water

[pickled_heretic]

Economic status makes a difference.


yes, it does, obviously. there's a difference in average intelligence between members of the same race who occupy different positions of socio-economic status, it would only be logical to assume that the races as a whole have different average intelligence as well, given that the various races also occupy different positions on the socio-economic ladder.

that doesn't change the fact that when you control for socio-economic status, there persists a difference between intelligence that cannot easily be explained away by environment. the most parsimonious explanation is genetics.

Look up irremediable.

you're absolutely right. literally, the difference in IQ is remediable. we could, for instance, euthanize and/or sterilize any people who happen to deviate too strongly below the IQ average (let's say, an IQ of 80 or below). this would happen to more black people than it would white people, and it would happen to fewer east asians than it would whites, and would therefore cause the averages to converge. there are, after all, examples of blacks, whites, asians, jews, native americans, etc. who have an IQs significantly above 100, and if these members of their respective races were allowed to promulgate then the genetic gap in IQ would literally disappear.

however, are there any practical solutions? probably not. economic and sociological forces are widening the gap, if anything, with the poorest (and by extension, the dumbest) of global civilization reproducing significantly faster than the smartest.

[guineapig]

guineeapig why did you clean up hasbinbad's nudity post like it didn't happen and not ban him for it?

Bans are based on previous infractions/warnings.
He received one for the post.

[Hasbinbad]

See Diggles, Guinea thinks you're a bitch too.

[Diggles]

thought nudity posts were outright bans because they threaten google ads, carry on then

[Peatree]

see i never prejudged you just because you had gaping open sores on your face. that would be wrong. but after you post cringeworthy, painfully dumb stuff like this that's when i can accurately judge u as a neocon moran

Anyone else see the irony in Pico spelling moron wrong? :D

[pickled_heretic]

Anyone else see the irony in Pico spelling moron wrong? :D

pretty sure it was intentional, based off of this image:

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

someone had to post it

[Peatree]

pretty sure it was intentional, based off of this image:

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

someone had to post it

That is simply awesome. Love that it's a Card fan too. GO RANGERS! :D

[jilena]

I will keep my bigger brain and my smaller penis so I know when to pull out. Even if my offspring would carry superior genetics on the intelligence when compared to the strong black hero...

[Tommy_Wiseau]

Anyone else see the irony in Pico spelling moron wrong? :D

pretty sure it was intentional, based off of this image:

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

someone had to post it

gonna need reconstructive surgery after the facepalm i just did

[Harrison]

See Diggles, Guinea thinks you're a bitch too.

Pretty much the highest of compliments...

[MakeYouMad]

Read your own shit. Economic status makes a difference.

23. "Racial-ethnic differences are somewhat smaller but still substantial for individuals from the same socio-economic backgrounds"


It appears you don't even understand what you just quoted. That sentence says that racial background is much more important for determining IQ than income.


18. "Genetically caused differences are not necessarily irremediable"

Look up irremediable.

If you actually read the whole thing, it says without a doubt, ethnic background is the #1 determining factor for IQ, not income or anything else. They just slipped in non-scientific, liberal slogans like the one above in order to not make themselves appear as "evil" eugenicists.

[Harrison]

The pathetic part is this kid probably believes his drivel.

[burkemi5]

racism is never justified. also you used wikipedia as your citation. nice troll though.

[MakeYouMad]

racism is never justified. also you used wikipedia as your citation. nice troll though.

When you state something as fact, "racism is never justified", you have to support it with some kind of logical reasoning. Why would anyone agree with your point of view if you can't even come up with one statement based on objective reality to back it up?

[burkemi5]

what does racism mean to you?

[MakeYouMad]

what does racism mean to you?

The word "racism" implies that treating people differently is wrong because everyone is the same, in reality, all testing says the exact opposite. Natural selection doesn't create equality.

Therefore, I consider it an irrational, propaganda word that has no scientific basis or reasoning behind it.

People who tend to use that word usually fall into one of two categories, someone looking out for their own self preservation, or liberals who don't understand a society or civilization is composed of the bell curve and not outlier individuals.

[Lazortag]

The word "racism" implies that treating people differently is wrong because everyone is the same, in reality, all testing says the exact opposite. Natural selection doesn't create equality.

Therefore, I consider it an irrational, propaganda word that has no scientific basis or reasoning behind it.

People who tend to use that word usually fall into one of two categories, someone looking out for their own self preservation, or liberals who don't understand a society or civilization is composed of the bell curve and not outlier individuals.

So assuming what you say is true, we should treat people worse if they're less intelligent. In that case I'm free to discriminate against you. Am I understanding this correctly?

[pickled_heretic]

if you accept the following as true:

1. race is a crude indicator of socioeconomic status and IQ

2. some of the variance in IQ is probably caused by genetics

3. within racial groups, there is a large amount of variation in IQ

then accepting the "scientific consensus" STILL doesn't justify discrimination based on race (the definition I use for "racism") there are still black people who are smarter than you and there are still east asians and jews who are dumber than you, using race as an indicator of who is smarter or dumber is not acceptably precise enough.

[burkemi5]

rac·ism   [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

there is absolutely no biological basis for racism. your post kind of made since when you said, "Therefore, I consider it an irrational, propaganda word that has no scientific basis or reasoning behind it." the rest consists of sweeping generalizations. what are you even trying to argue?

"People who tend to use that word usually fall into one of two categories, someone looking out for their own self preservation, or liberals who don't understand a society or civilization is composed of the bell curve and not outlier individuals." - pretty irrelevant to what we're trying to talk about here.

[burkemi5]

race isn't an indicator of anything. saying otherwise is a racist statement.

[MakeYouMad]

2. some of the variance in IQ is probably caused by genetics

The out of Africa theory of evolution predicts the closer you go to the source of where humans diverged from lower life forms, the more primitive and less intelligent the people would be. They stuck around and interbred longer.

You always have these crazy leftists who don't disagree with the out of Africa theory, yet disagree with all of it's obvious 1+1 conclusions.



then accepting the "scientific consensus" STILL doesn't justify discrimination based on race (the definition I use for "racism") there are still black people who are smarter than you and there are still east asians and jews who are dumber than you, using race as an indicator of who is smarter or dumber is not acceptably precise enough.

Read my earlier post, it doesn't matter what outlier individuals score, a civilization is composed of the bell curve. It takes the shape of the average or lowest common denominator.

[burkemi5]

this thread is dumb. OP you are treating this like a political debate and talking about all these issues that are irrelevant. please come to my grad level diversity class and argue that racism is justified based on a wikipedia article. i'd pay you 100 dollars to do this.

[MakeYouMad]

OP you are treating this like a political debate and talking about all these issues that are irrelevant.

Nope, I put value on what the bell curve score is for population groups. You think this value is irrelevant and that only outliers matter. Anyone with common sense knows that outlier data is far less meaningful.


please come to my grad level diversity class and argue that racism is justified based on a wikipedia article. i'd pay you 100 dollars to do this.

Grad level "diversity" class? I hope you're not serious. How does such a class even exist.

Do you even know where political correctness and pro-diversity came from in the first place? The correct word for this movement is called "cultural Marxism".

Back when people were actually trying to push economic Marxism as mainstream, they started pushing cultural Marxism to go with it. Why? Because unless everyone believes they're the same as everyone else, collectivist movements fall apart. It's a brain washing and indoctrination process.

[burkemi5]

Nope, I put value on what the bell curve score is for population groups. You think this value is irrelevant and that only outliers matter. Anyone with common sense knows that outlier data is far less meaningful.



Grad level "diversity" class? I hope you're not serious. How does such a class even exist.

Do you even know where political correctness and pro-diversity came from in the first place? The correct word for this movement is called "cultural Marxism".

Back when people were actually trying to push economic Marxism as mainstream, they started pushing cultural Marxism to go with it. Why? Because unless everyone believes they're the same as everyone else, collectivist movements fall apart. It's a brain washing and indoctrination process.

you're avoiding arguing about the main point, whether or not racism is justified. and yeah, i am in a field that requires me to be cognizant of diversity and racism so i am taking a graduate level diversity class. pretty common actually for my field of study.

[MakeYouMad]

you're avoiding arguing about the main point, whether or not racism is justified.

Racism is justified if you agree that the bell curve of a population group is what matters, not outlier data, and integration with a group scoring on average, considerably lower than yours, would significantly decrease your level of civilization.



and yeah, i am in a field that requires me to be cognizant of diversity and racism so i am taking a graduate level diversity class. pretty common actually for my field of study.

And the main teaching of this class is, it's only racist if white people do it, right?

Anyway, not sure if you're aware, but America had a pretty much "western Europe only" immigration policy until 1965 when the law was changed. The main group involved in changing this law, viewed homogeneous societies as being hostile to their ethnic group so they started pushing "diversity" as being a good thing. In reality, they pushed it entirely out of self preservation.

These procedures are well documented in the following article, you can view the mountain of references at the bottom:

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/books-immigration.html

The whole diversity thing is pretty much a joke. Political correctness, diversity, both are offspring of Marxism. Today it's selfishly pushed by tiny ethnic groups that don't care what effect it has on the other 98% of the population. In terms of objective benefits, homogeneous civilizations far outweigh "diverse" ones. Racial nepotism is a huge source of conflict and internal problems, especially failed attempts at integration. Without going into specifics of which ones, Caucasian and Asian female intermarriage rates are something like 40%, other groups are 4% and can't be considered anything but a failure.

[Aenor]

You said:

"There's a deficit in race that is not related to economic status."

The original article said:

"Racial-ethnic differences are somewhat smaller for individuals from the same socio-economic backgrounds."

If I was hiring for a job that required reading comprehension, I would definitely hire a black college grad over you. The black college grad would have at least high school-level reading comprehension.

[MakeYouMad]

You said:

"There's a deficit in race that is not related to economic status."

The original article said:

"Racial-ethnic differences are somewhat smaller for individuals from the same socio-economic backgrounds."


This guy was so desperate, he actually altered what the quote to try and make it something different.

The quote from the original article is below, not what you posted. It clearly states that genetics are a far higher contributing factor to IQ than economic status is:

""Racial-ethnic differences are somewhat smaller but still substantial for individuals from the same socio-economic backgrounds""

That was really pathetic trying to alter the quote in an attempt to support cultural Marxism.

[burkemi5]

Racism is justified if you agree that the bell curve of a population group is what matters, not outlier data, and integration with a group scoring on average, considerably lower than yours, would significantly decrease your level of civilization.

if you're gonna throw around all these stats like you know something about statistical methods you should be careful of the words you use. are you saying that the population mean for intelligence of african americans is significantly lower than that of whites? and how would this "decrease my level of civilization? is intelligence the only measure of civilization? how is intelligence being measured? is it biased towards whites? what is civilization? what determines civilization? what makes my civilization "better?" how can i measure my "civilization" to determine that it is "decreased?" and how does this make racism okay again? so you're saying since another group isn't as smart as us (which is untrue) that we should treat them differently (i'm assuming you mean segregate) so to not taint our population? why shouldn't we help them, assuming they need help? sounds like you want to make an aryan race... hmm sounds familiar. OP you nazi bro?

[MakeYouMad]

are you saying that the population mean for intelligence of african americans is significantly lower than that of whites?

I didn't say that, the scientific consensus says that.


is it biased towards whites?


You must have missed this part:

5. "Intelligence tests are not culturally biased"

In many African languages, they only have terminology to say things like "The dog is up the tree", they don't even have words to describe how far up the dog is. Much abstract thinking is totally alien to them.

When you transplant these people from Africa to other societies, their children who were born and raised entirely in the 1st world, still have a large deficit in abstract thinking just like the African natives did.

This isn't cultural bias, this is called a biological deficit in abstract thinking and concepts.



and how would this "decrease my level of civilization?

Do you think people would have actually gone to space if the average IQ was 85 instead of 100? Everywhere on earth with IQ demographics that low, it's like a living hell.


and how does this make racism okay again?

Once again, the word "racism" implies treating people differently is wrong because everyone is equal. If everyone isn't equal, your guilt trip crap about "racism" collapses.


so you're saying since another group isn't as smart as us (which is untrue)

Says who? Where is your objective data that says everyone walking the planet is exactly the same? This theory of yours is not predicted by any theories of evolution or biology either.

I noticed you didn't address the out of Africa theory of evolution either. It predicts the closer you go the source of divergence from lower life forms, the more primitive of people you will find. Are you claiming out of Africa theory is false?


that we should treat them differently (i'm assuming you mean segregate) so to not taint our population?

In the current modern day world, we have forced integration, and guess what, it doesn't work. Even with government coercion telling Caucasians they're evil if they don't like multiculturalism, the black intermarriage rate to whites is only 4%, what would it be without coercion? like 0-2%?

It's a failed social experiment no matter how you look at it. The white and Asian female intermarriage rate is 40% without government coercion.

Just looking at these numbers, you can tell that humans are selectively segregating themselves naturally, even while people try to social engineer them to act differently.

If people don't interbreed with each other, there's pretty much no reason for them to live together. It will just be a source of eternal conflict.



sounds like you want to make an aryan race... hmm sounds familiar. OP you nazi bro?

Ignoring all science on this issue and spamming the word Nazi is the usual far leftist approach to this subject. That's a pretty lame slander attempt, try to come with some actual, objective data next time.

[pickled_heretic]

You always have these crazy leftists who don't disagree with the out of Africa theory, yet disagree with all of it's obvious 1+1 conclusions.


give me an example of one of these "1+1" conclusions, then.

Read my earlier post, it doesn't matter what outlier individuals score, a civilization is composed of the bell curve. It takes the shape of the average or lowest common denominator.

what is your point? in your everyday interactions with other people, if you are assuming that every black person you meet is dumber than you because of the information in the Bell Curve, that is an unscientific assumption that is unsupported by the facts.

[Aenor]

This guy was so desperate, he actually altered what the quote to try and make it something different.

The quote from the original article is below, not what you posted. It clearly states that genetics are a far higher contributing factor to IQ than economic status is:

""Racial-ethnic differences are somewhat smaller but still substantial for individuals from the same socio-economic backgrounds""

That was really pathetic trying to alter the quote in an attempt to support cultural Marxism.

LOL thank you for being entertaining. If you had ever been paid to write, you would recognize "editing for brevity and clarity."

You said:

"The consensus shows there's a 15-20% IQ deficit in race that is not related to economic status and is genetic based."

You said NOT RELATED. Now you're backpedaling and saying oh sure it's related, the relationship just isn't as great as the relationship between genetics and IQ. You got caught not even reading the article you posted and now you want to quibble over a cut out phrase?

Hiring African American college grads to read posts. Paying well.

[mimixownzall]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsYHZOMAyVQ

[Lazortag]

Grad level "diversity" class? I hope you're not serious. How does such a class even exist.
...

I feel I should point out the elephant in the room: you have never graduated from high school. You admitted this much when we argued in IRC a while ago. This means you lack the proper background to make statistical inferences like the ones you've attempted to make in this thread. One could further argue that you lack basic reading comprehension and that you're a moron, which by your own reasoning justifies discrimination against you.

5. "Intelligence tests are not culturally biased"

In many African languages, they only have terminology to say things like "The dog is up the tree", they don't even have words to describe how far up the dog is. Much abstract thinking is totally alien to them.

When you transplant these people from Africa to other societies, their children who were born and raised entirely in the 1st world, still have a large deficit in abstract thinking just like the African natives did.

Now you're assuming a link between intelligence and language. You aren't a linguist, nor have you studied linguistics, otherwise you would know that this hypothesis has been universally rejected. If you can find a peer-reviewed work that says that language determines capacity for abstract thought, I will give you over 9000 dollars. I'd be surprised if you could even find a recent work that says that language significantly affects how people perceive the world, because this is also rejected by the majority of linguists. In short, this is possibly the worst argument you could use to justify racism. This is probably why you didn't get into college Wehrmacht - not because affirmative action gave your spot to a black man, but because you make stupid fucking arguments like the one I quoted above.

[Jjlent]

Burkemi and Giege have slain The Racist!

[Tommy_Wiseau]

I feel I should point out the elephant in the room: you have never graduated from high school. You admitted this much when we argued in IRC a while ago. This means you lack the proper background to make statistical inferences like the ones you've attempted to make in this thread. One could further argue that you lack basic reading comprehension and that you're a moron, which by your own reasoning justifies discrimination against you.



Now you're assuming a link between intelligence and language. You aren't a linguist, nor have you studied linguistics, otherwise you would know that this hypothesis has been universally rejected. If you can find a peer-reviewed work that says that language determines capacity for abstract thought, I will give you over 9000 dollars. I'd be surprised if you could even find a recent work that says that language significantly affects how people perceive the world, because this is also rejected by the majority of linguists. In short, this is possibly the worst argument you could use to justify racism. This is probably why you didn't get into college Wehrmacht - not because affirmative action gave your spot to a black man, but because you make stupid fucking arguments like the one I quoted above.

the dude's a straight up 1890s eugenecist and one big long argument from authority is the best you can do?

[Envious]

Lol, so Tommy Wiseu, or whatever, is wehrmacht?

Racism is 100% valid, and justified.

My dick is bigger than Hasbinbad's. 95% sure.

[Diggles]

tommy is japan you fucking moron

[MakeYouMad]

I feel I should point out the elephant in the room: you have never graduated from high school. You admitted this much when we argued in IRC a while ago.

I don't know what this guy is even talking about. I've only talked to him like twice and the conversation was never about "high school". I went to college so you must be thinking of someone else. Either that or you're just making things up.

This Lazortag/Giegue guy is one of those people who has invested his life into far leftist ideology and refuses to change those thoughts when presented evidence debunking it. By acknowledging anything in this thread as true, it would be admitting how irrational and based on fantasy his ideology is.

He also belongs to a so called "persecuted" ethnic group, so the motive for his weak attacks against this scientific consensus is self preservation and nothing more. He's obviously has no credibility in this thread due to his extreme bias.

[burkemi5]

I don't know what this guy is even talking about. I've only talked to him like twice and the conversation was never about "high school". I went to college so you must be thinking of someone else. Either that or you're just making things up.

This Lazortag/Giegue guy is one of those people who has invested his life into far leftist ideology and refuses to change those thoughts when presented evidence debunking it. By acknowledging anything in this thread as true, it would be admitting how irrational and based on fantasy his ideology is.

He also belongs to a so called "persecuted" ethnic group, so the motive for his weak attacks against this scientific consensus is self preservation and nothing more. He's obviously has no credibility in this thread due to his extreme bias.

what does being "far leftist" have to do with discrimination? and what ethnic group does he belong to that is "persecuted?"

[MakeYouMad]

what does being "far leftist" have to do with discrimination?

All of your responses are trying to force people to view life on a micro level while ignoring the big picture. This is an irrational thought process typically found in far leftists. You have to view things with weight on both micro and macro level.

The macro level weighs heavily towards discrimination being justified. The micro level is just all random and up in the air.

The problem with your train of thought is that humans live in towns, cities, and civilizations. The micro level doesn't apply to these, only macro level does.

If you think ignoring the macro level has no consequences, consider the following:

"In 1950 whites and blacks were respectively 27.98% and 8.97% of world population. By 2060 these figures will almost reverse as blacks surge to 25.38% and whites shrink to 9.76%. These groups and their governments will be looking for elbow room, and the diminished presence of whites in Europe, and especially in the relatively wide open spaces North America, will provide such an opportunity. Specifically, countries like Canada, the United States, Argentina, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, and Russia can expect to be pressured to accept collectively hundreds of millions of refugees from India, and sub-Sahara Africa."

[MakeYouMad]

It seems the liberals have vacated thread.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4629/1gnls.jpg

[Diggles]

the only thing liberal in this thread is my bowels.

[burkemi5]

i'm not liberal. i just think OP is racist. also, i figured he wasn't going to listen to our arguments or misconstrue them into some political BS so i thought i'd let this thread die.

[naez]

this thread has confirmed racism is justified

[MakeYouMad]

i'm not liberal. i just think OP is racist. also, i figured he wasn't going to listen to our arguments or misconstrue them into some political BS so i thought i'd let this thread die.

What argument?

All you did was post politically correct slogans backed with zero objective facts then tried to imply everyone that isn't a cultural Marxist is a bad person for some...unknown reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

Where's the objective data to back up your Marxist point of views? All the data on the first page of this post says your claims of everyone being equal are completely invalid.

When you attempt to spam the word "racist" at people in a negative manner, it requires that all humans are equal. If they aren't, all of your Marxist propaganda falls apart.

[deakolt]

What is your actual goal? To convince people that your point of view is correct and hope they resort to some form of action? Or is it more about finding peers?

[Naez 4.20]

Results: Poll
Racism is justified by the scientific consensus
Ahnen, citizen1080, cvinion, Dazen, Doors, hrafn, MakeYouMad, mimixownzall, Mithaniel Marr, naez, Naez 4.20, Sorath, Tiggles

[MakeYouMad]

What is your actual goal? To convince people that your point of view is correct and hope they resort to some form of action? Or is it more about finding peers?


I feel it's a shame cultural Marxism remains strong when economic Marxism has been so thoroughly defeated. Someone who's not familiar with the origin of these ideas might think they are completely unrelated, or maybe cultural Marxism is normal, and this is the way life is supposed to be, but no, both of these are very new social engineering programs directly tied to each other. Both come from the same source, same time period.

Video: “The History of Political Correctness”

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236

[Csihar]

You didn't answer my question. I'm not challenging you, by the way, it's just genuine curiosity.

When you attempt to spam the word "racist" at people in a negative manner, it requires that all humans are equal. If they aren't, all of your Marxist propaganda falls apart.

Your use of the word 'equal' is a bit too liberal (see what I did there? Holy shit I'm good) and perhaps your use of the word 'racism' as well.

Oxford Advanded Learner's Dictionary:

1. the unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race
2. the belief that some races are better than others

If you're going by the first definition, no amount of science can justify such a thing. An example would be unprovoked mocking or other verbal attacks or even physical attacks based on another person's race. A "white boy" getting jumped by a group of black guys simply because he's white or vice versa wouldn't be justified. That is obviously a micro example, Turks vs. Kurdish people would be an example on a larger scale. This definition of racism isn't really something that can be ignored. It's also not something that can solely be blamed on collectivist philosophies.

You're going by the second definition. I have a lot of questions about the research and IQ tests are limited (3 points I'll make. 1: Each IQ test contains a portion based on knowledge. More knowledge does not equal greater intelligence. 2: You obviously can't overperform but you can underperform. There are multiple reasons why a person can underperform and each and every factor would need to be eliminated before gauging the IQ difference between individuals 3: Our understanding of intelligence is still far too limited. Regardless of the first 2 points of the article IQ tests are still flawed and limited. Our limited knowledge of intelligence and the limitations of IQ tests are often demonstrated when autistic people take the tests. Highly autistic people are not mentally retarded but their test scores will show they are. High-functioning autistic people can be highly intelligent and yet score low on the IQ tests. An autistic person graduating a difficult university course with honors is enough evidence of a high intelligence and no IQ test score should convince any psychologist otherwise) but I'll put that aside and just accept the research as valid.

When accepting these theories the statement "in general black people are less intelligent than white people" shouldn't be a problem, considering it would a fact. Concluding that any white people is more intelligent than any black person would still be an incorrect conclusion though. Getting into the second definition "the belief that some races are better than others", there are still things left to discuss. '...better than others' is an incomplete statement. No one is 'better than' or 'worse than' anyone else. Only the Abrahamic religions, for example, have such a universal measuring stick.You are better at something. The definition would need to be expanded to 'the belief that some races are better at intelligence (obviously an awkward statement, but you'll get my point) than others'. A white person being more intelligent than a black person only speaks to their level of intellectual equality, not equality in general. Equality in general refers to the rights people have. My IQ test scores put me above 97% of the population. That would certainly make me intellectually superior over 97% of all people but that does make me 'superior' in any other way? Am I entitled to more rights? Does that mean I use my intelligence in a productive way? Just fill in the endless other questions yourself.

Intelligence is only one of many factors that determine what a person is capable of and how they act. I definitely have socialist leanings (although I stress individuality over collectivism and, taking America as an example, dislike the liberals), with my beliefs based on the facts I find in human psychology, but I see your point. However, I disagree that intelligence is the major contributing factor. Source: my understanding of psychology. I also find your cultural marxist, zionist theories to be a disappointingly typical explanation. It's far too narrow. A lot of the problems with non-white Americans are more a case of the European colonization of the Americas coming back to bite the current Europeans living there in the ass, made worse by bad philosophies, good philosophies implemented poorly by illogical and overly emotional people, bad social policies etc. I don't feel like discussing anything beyond the mere surface so you don't really need to write a lengthy response as I probably won't reply (I will read it though).

[deakolt]

I'm wondering how the OP feels about environmental activism

[Naez 4.20]

I am a fan of living in the environment, but the species has already fucked up the Gulf, Ozone layer, and you can go on what else at this point just let it ride

[Akim]

option 3, fuck this fake science, iq levels measure intelligence as well as standardized tests do. and im fucking plat blonde blue eyes white, if anyone should be calling racist shots its me pure as a driven fuckin snow. lol but yeah quibble over differences when 99 percent of us probably have mixed blood.. yeeah that seems REAL intelligent to me.

[MakeYouMad]

option 3, fuck this fake science

If it was fake, you wouldn't see study after study coming to the same conclusions:


Ecological correlations between IQ, skin color, temperature and GDP per capita

The researchers (Donald Templer and Hiroko Arikawa) computed the correlations between the predominant skin color in 129 nations, GDP per capita, high and low mean temperatures in the summer and winter, and skin color. The correlation between predominant skin color and population IQ was ? 0.92!

http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/intelligence_and_skin_color

[MakeYouMad]

For those not familiar with correlation coefficients, these range in magnitude from 0 (no correlation) to 1 (perfect correlation).

[Diggles]

Note : probably we can remove antifascism an dliberalism from some idiots ony if will kick their genitalies with stones just like that poor ape did :cool:

[pickled_heretic]

For those not familiar with correlation coefficients, these range in magnitude from 0 (no correlation) to 1 (perfect correlation).

actually correlation can range from -1 (perfect inverse correlation) to 1 (perfect direct correlation).

[burkemi5]

If it was fake, you wouldn't see study after study coming to the same conclusions:


Ecological correlations between IQ, skin color, temperature and GDP per capita

The researchers (Donald Templer and Hiroko Arikawa) computed the correlations between the predominant skin color in 129 nations, GDP per capita, high and low mean temperatures in the summer and winter, and skin color. The correlation between predominant skin color and population IQ was ? 0.92!

http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/intelligence_and_skin_color


although it looks like you were banned (good riddance) it is pretty evident that you don't know anything about statistics, especially correlations. the first thing you learn about correlations is how correlation in no way means causation. in this case, all that bullshit you've been spewing about skin color and GDP does not cause IQs to be lower. also, as diggles already pointed out, correlation goes from -1 to 1. good hustle out there chief, take a seat on the bench. go back to the under the bridge you came from.

[deakolt]

i find it laughable that OP ignored Csihar's post...

stupid fucking pseudo-intellectuals and their straw men

[Naez 4.20]

no pretty sure csihar got trolled there writing a novel in one of the most obvious troll threads

[deakolt]

my statement stands (a bit modified),

stupid fucking pseudo-intellectual trolls and their straw men

[horsethief]

it is pretty evident that you don't know anything about statistics, especially correlations. the first thing you learn about correlations is how correlation in no way means causation.

lol @ pretending like a .92 correlation for 129 different nations means nothing.

Sure, if you only studied 3-4, you might be able to claim that, but not 129. It's a valid trend line at the very least that would be used to create a hypothesis (that most liberals would not like) for further testing.

[pickled_heretic]

also, as diggles already pointed out, correlation goes from -1 to 1.

diggles? what the fuck man.

[Diggles]

lol

[burkemi5]

diggles? what the fuck man.

qq maybe you shouldn't all have the same avatar

[Tumdumm]

qq maybe you shouldn't all have the same avatar

first time i ever saw someone take advice from RnF to heart

[Diggles]

the Diggles Diggle clusterfuck was fun

[pickled_heretic]

first time i ever saw someone take advice from RnF to heart

haha, i suppose it's true.

i never meant to keep the same avatar. i made it for diggles and let him copy it. but then i couldn't figure out how to turn it off until today.

[Diggles]

and it's oh so wonderful~

[central scrutinizer]

There is no way to accurately quantify intelligence and if there was, there would be no way to accurately measure it due to the dynamic nature of brain chemistry. A subject could provide erroneous data for many millions of reasons that it would be virtually impossible to account for.

And if there was some magical method to somehow control the gathering of such data, trying to parse it along racial lines would only open up more variables to be accounted for.


This is magical thinking, nothing more.
Until we can upload ourselves to computers of course. Then we'll hash all of this out, and at the end of the day your agenda would still not be served.

[pickled_heretic]

There is no way to accurately quantify intelligence and if there was, there would be no way to accurately measure it due to the dynamic nature of brain chemistry. A subject could provide erroneous data for many millions of reasons that it would be virtually impossible to account for.

And if there was some magical method to somehow control the gathering of such data, trying to parse it along racial lines would only open up more variables to be accounted for.


This is magical thinking, nothing more.
Until we can upload ourselves to computers of course. Then we'll hash all of this out, and at the end of the day your agenda would still not be served.

a person's iq changes very little throughout his or her life, and iq has been found to be highly correlated with many other indicators such as college, employment, socio-economic status, and criminal history. in fact, your score on an iq test is the best predictor of how and what you will do later in life, even trumping your parent's socio-economic status. (although, the two are conflated anyway).

the sad thing is, this data and its prescriptions for society are often eclipsed by people who try to harness it for their own politically or racially motivated ambitions.

[central scrutinizer]

a person's iq changes very little throughout his or her life, and iq has been found to be highly correlated with many other indicators such as college, employment, socio-economic status, and criminal history. in fact, your score on an iq test is the best predictor of how and what you will do later in life, even trumping your parent's socio-economic status. (although, the two are conflated anyway).

the sad thing is, this data and its prescriptions for society are often eclipsed by people who try to harness it for their own politically or racially motivated ambitions.

I am aware of this.

[pickled_heretic]

I am aware of this.

then how can you agree with anything you stated 3 posts ago?