Xzerion says TR isn't shown favoritism?

[Enygma]

So then... why don't they get a 1 week raid suspension like Dark Ascension did when Koota was found using SEQ?

The reasoning the guild got a raid suspension for a week was because their "officer" was found cheating... wasn't Perun the raid leader?

People must know that being able to see EVERYTHING as a raid leader is a HUGE advantage to their guild and the primary reason they were able to become the #1 raiding guild on the server. (Not to mention I heard their bard puller Stefan was using SEQ as well - not confirmed) But had Stefan been using ... being able to run straight to the dragon and see every mob all the way back to your raid, is LoL EZmode.

The reason Dark Ascension broke up was because of having two seperate raid suspensions and people getting fed up and burnt out with the way the server was managed.

So I ask why isn't TR being suspended?

Just saying,

Discuss,

Sworen

[Werlop]

they were able to become the #1 raiding guild on the server

Well, at least you're honest.
Maybe because the GM's have given up on moderating? If this happened 2 months ago, almost every guild probably would have gotten a suspension.

[Enygma]

But the reason behind it was because he was an "officer" not just a member... that was the reason the suspension was given.

I understand that an entire guild can't be held accountable for a MEMBER.

Sworen

[Rogean]

So then... why don't they get a 1 week raid suspension like Dark Ascension did when Koota was found using SEQ?


Why is your question specific to TR? Every single raiding guild was guilty of having players who got suspended.. why single out TR? Seems like a biased question.

We discussed these decisions in length between the senior staff of the server, and much harsher options were considered, including actions taken against guilds that had many of these accounts in them (even to the point of being disbanded).

We could raid suspend yes, but that would result in every raid-capable guild being suspended... in which case it would result in the players deguilding for the duration of the suspension to raid anyways.

[G13]

Why is your question specific to TR? Every single raiding guild was guilty of having players who got suspended.. why single out TR? Seems like a biased question.



We could raid suspend yes, but that would result in every raid-capable guild being suspended... in which case it would result in the players deguilding for the duration of the suspension to raid anyways.

Which TMO Officers were found to be using Show EQ

[Rogean]

Which TMO Officers were found to be using Show EQ

What does officer have to do with it? Koota wasn't an officer. He was using it to track.

Atleast that was the point of that situation.

[Enygma]

What does officer have to do with it? Koota wasn't an officer. He was using it to track.

Atleast that was the point of that situation.

The reason we were given was because he was an "officer", was the reason Dark Ascension was raid suspended and Koota wasn't just banned.

DA had brought up the fact that there is no way for them to know if someone is cheating or not so why hold the entire guild accountable? The reason was Koota is an Officer and the guild must be held accountable for the Officer's actions because he represents the guild to a higher degree.

I appreciate the answers Rogean.

Thanks,

Sworen

[Fraggle]

Raid suspend Sworen. Problem solved.

Thanks,

Fraggle

[G13]

What does officer have to do with it? Koota wasn't an officer. He was using it to track.

Atleast that was the point of that situation.

Which is exactly my point

An officer of a raiding guild using a hack is a much more serious offense to the rules you have put in place than that of a member doing it. I believe them because as we've seen, Durison, or any officer for TMO for that matter, were not caught using a hack. They were playing by the rules. YOUR rules. Officers can't police every member, but they dam sure better be able to police themselves wouldn't you agree? Otherwise this is just a corrupt box with no discipline or order.

This has nothing to do with accusations leveled at Xzerion. This has everything to do with an officer of TR admitting publicly he was cheating while competing against a rival guild.

In this instance it's TR's leadership that is responsible for either being ignorant of Perun's cheating or complicit in it. Either way, they are responsible.

So that means your punishment should be that much more severe. So how long are you going to make TR's raid suspension be. DA was raid suspended for a total of one month. I think an appropriate ruling should be one month for TR.

[Rogean]

If any guilds get raid suspensions, it would be all of them. If that's what you want I will consider it. I asked the raid guilds to start working with eachother and getting along and you still cannot go one week without multiple raid disputes and rule lawyering.

[G13]

If any guilds get raid suspensions, it would be all of them. If that's what you want I will consider it. I asked the raid guilds to start working with eachother and getting along and you still cannot go one week without multiple raid disputes and rule lawyering.

You're completely ignoring the argument that has been presented to you

You know it's fair that since an OFFICER of TR was caught cheating, that by those actions the guild should share equal punishment.

TMO is not DA. TMO's officer are completely innocent of using hacks during a competitive raid. This is the important distinction you are ignoring.

[CHusk2]

Without even getting into specifics I can cite numerous instances of extreme dicketry by TR. Just last night I was with a group in KC when TR busts in, shouts for everyone who isn't TR to get out of the zone, then proceeds to train everyone who doesn't leave. Fuck TR.

[johnny ringo]

Without even getting into specifics I can cite numerous instances of extreme dicketry by TR. Just last night I was with a group in KC when TR busts in, shouts for everyone who isn't TR to get out of the zone, then proceeds to train everyone who doesn't leave. Fuck TR.

lmfao

[Skope]

If any guilds get raid suspensions, it would be all of them. If that's what you want I will consider it. I asked the raid guilds to start working with eachother and getting along and you still cannot go one week without multiple raid disputes and rule lawyering.

you should've banned everyone that was caught. no questions asked. trying to find out who was cheating and where for what purpose is a wild goose chase, but letting people off the hook like that was...

wow.

that shit didn't sit well with ANYBODY. no reason to be taken back by the sheer number of cheaters and change your approach. it set a horrendous precedent when you coughed up a golden opportunity to give another "fuck you" to fippy. you went soft instead of doing the same thing you'd do every night, pinky: ban them.

the vitriolic BS between the 2 top guilds didn't help either. both uth and xz are to take part of the blame for that nonsense.

[Kruel]

Koota was an officer.. Perun wasnt an officer.. Not sure what your getting at. EVERY raid guild had cheaters..

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

It could work Rogean if you didn't 'ask'. Obviously if left to their own devices it will not work and I feel confident in the use of the word obviously because look at how things have not gotten better since raids started here. If you want things to never change continue to take the same approach as always. But we would have all our staff intact, eliminate any needs for cheating or perception if everyone was forced to share and probably be much further along in development due to your time being freed from nonsense. The fact we are here shows that we have learned nothing from the past on this server. Eliminate all of these problems with a rotation/calendar as the result of a guild summit.

And yes it seems every guild raiding had someone suspended, the difference is some were using it to raid and maintain advantages in the raid scene and others just had people using it for their own reasons. Both against the rules clearly and cheating but there was a difference.

[Amelinda]

Without even getting into specifics I can cite numerous instances of extreme dicketry by TR. Just last night I was with a group in KC when TR busts in, shouts for everyone who isn't TR to get out of the zone, then proceeds to train everyone who doesn't leave. Fuck TR.

and you petitioned about this - right? because i always make sure to investigate every petition if i happen to get them and this is totally unacceptable.

[Maze513]

You're completely ignoring the argument that has been presented to you

You know it's fair that since an OFFICER of TR was caught cheating, that by those actions the guild should share equal punishment.

TMO is not DA. TMO's officer are completely innocent of using hacks during a competitive raid. This is the important distinction you are ignoring.

[Skope]

What does officer have to do with it? Koota wasn't an officer. He was using it to track.

Atleast that was the point of that situation.

err, also, part of the reason i quit yesterday. it's BS like that, dude...

Koota was using it to track and you caught him red handed and punished the entire guild.

Perun was using it to track as well, though tracking the entire zone to see a mob that was already up and note where the other guild was. you know exactly how both guilds benefited yet only acted on one. banning every guild that had cheaters? ban the entire server then, but you've never done that. you guys specifically banned guilds that you know and can prove that benefited from cheats. if you're telling me that you'd ban div from raiding and have anywhere near that solid proof i'd fucking love to hear it, or any other guild on the server for that matter.

you've got to see the double standard here. throw in that he's coming back in a week along with the rest of them AND they get to keep most if not all of their goodies?

[Rogean]

err, also, part of the reason i quit yesterday. it's BS like that, dude...

Koota was using it to track and you caught him red handed and punished the entire guild.

Perun was using it to track as well, though tracking the entire zone to see a mob that was already up and note where the other guild was. you know exactly how both guilds benefited yet only acted on one. banning every guild that had cheaters? ban the entire server then, but you've never done that. you guys specifically banned guilds that you know and can prove that benefited from cheats. if you're telling me that you'd ban div from raiding and have anywhere near that solid proof i'd fucking love to hear it, or any other guild on the server for that matter.

you've got to see the double standard here. throw in that he's coming back in a week along with the rest of them AND they get to keep most if not all of their goodies?

Will discuss this with Nilbog.

[Skope]

Will discuss this with Nilbog.

ban everyone you've caught the past 2-3 weeks and delete their accts while you're at it. zero tolerance until the numbers are in triple digits? zero tolerance, period.

[Harrison]

Which is exactly my point

An officer of a raiding guild using a hack is a much more serious offense to the rules you have put in place than that of a member doing it. I believe them because as we've seen, Durison, or any officer for TMO for that matter, were not caught using a hack. They were playing by the rules. YOUR rules. Officers can't police every member, but they dam sure better be able to police themselves wouldn't you agree? Otherwise this is just a corrupt box with no discipline or order.

This has nothing to do with accusations leveled at Xzerion. This has everything to do with an officer of TR admitting publicly he was cheating while competing against a rival guild.

In this instance it's TR's leadership that is responsible for either being ignorant of Perun's cheating or complicit in it. Either way, they are responsible.

So that means your punishment should be that much more severe. So how long are you going to make TR's raid suspension be. DA was raid suspended for a total of one month. I think an appropriate ruling should be one month for TR.

Durison = Winterfresh

Argument nullified by stupidity and butthurt biased crying.

[Maze513]

the fact that your even will to discuss this is a step in the right direction

[Skope]

Durison = Winterfresh

Argument nullified by stupidity and butthurt biased crying.

don't be an idiot, dude.

right now the punishment for training is practically equal if not slightly less harsh than SEQ/MQ. that's a god damn shame.

furthermore, TR/IB has had trainers suspended in the past but it has nothing to do with SEQ/MQ and using third-party cheats to benefit an entire guild and dick another guild over.


If any guilds get raid suspensions, it would be all of them. If that's what you want I will consider it. I asked the raid guilds to start working with eachother and getting along and you still cannot go one week without multiple raid disputes and rule lawyering.

now tell me with a straight face that all guilds are being equally assholes to each other and the rest of the server. it's been tried and people got fed up, wanna know why? because it's the 2 with the loudest mouths and that budge the least that get the most attention. it also turns out that they're the two that cause the biggest shitstorms and are in some form or another responsible for what's taken place. you've got to quit pandering

[Harrison]

I'm agreeing with you entirely on the fact punishments are too lax. I've never wavered from that for an instant.

But, when someone is going to paint people as saints that are very obviously not, I'm going to correct them.

This entire situation has been exacerbated by the lack of severe punishment and transparency. In my experiences across many emulated MMOs, if you aren't 100% transparent or hardcore on offenders it will never be put to rest. I've seen countless great projects go down the tubes because of the very things we're seeing now, here.

This project is probably the best I've seen, of all of them. But, it is hitting a crossroads right now that will make or break it. Losing two devs isn't going to kill the server, but it is putting it on life support. This is of course just my opinion based on years of experience in various emulated mmo communities.

[ElanoraBryght]

VS fight has become "we cant clear to him, or the other guild will leapfrog us. so we'll leave the raid force at the zone line, and try to get FTE on VS. If we train every exp camp from VS room to zone in, and everyone fighting at zone in, along the way, so be it. At least we may get the kill!"

Where did this come from? Draco. FG's.

When gms set the precedence that it doesnt matter who kills the trash, it's ok to leapfrog others and it's all about who gets the named, all bets were off. The guild that stops to clear won't get the boss. The guild that trains every mob in the zone, kills the boss, loots 5 seconds before they wipe, has "won"* - even if that win means anyone else raiding / exping in that zone has had to eat a death / lose their exp time as part of the cost.

*Won. Heh. It's not just one guild doing this. If it doesn't wipe my raid, I don't petition it; we're supposed to be working things out not pissing gm's off. But that doesn't mean we don't see it, ss it, fraps it, and have to decide when the next boss spawns if it's worth going after or not based on the recent server history with petitions and gm responses.

[Motec]

I really feel sorry for any dev who reads these boards at all.
Shut down RNF.

Every single time you guys post some shit, is 10 seconds, 10 minutes, or an hour + of time spent reading or dealing with shit that could be spent developing.

[Humerox]

The punishments were too light, but outright bans are too severe.

I still think the middle road should be taken...strip the characters on all the accounts completely in addition to the xp and plat loss.

Make the same offer to all accounts banned in the past for the same reasons.

[Motec]

text

No-one I know died.
All trash was killed (by me, the 30 something mobs at the zone in were solo xp for my mage).
If anyone died, they would of received 96% rezzes, bull raid buffs and even assistance to re break any camps disturbed. This is not a problem at all.

Did anyone ask? Did anyone approach someone in TR or TMO about it? Both guilds would extend the same respect to anyone disturbed by their actions.

Instead, did people come to the forums crying? Its a shit position for everyone involved, but crying foul and sitting in the corner didnt achieve anything.

[Enygma]

Will discuss this with Nilbog.

Thanks,

Sworen

[ElanoraBryght]

I didn't come here crying about anything Motec. I stated (my version) of why boss mobs are now being killed in a hurry while massive zone trash is dumped on bystanders.

90% of the server cleans up after themselves. That doesn't mean it was ok to drop 20 mobs on bystanders in the first place.

[arduin]

It really doesn't matter how much you bitch about the raid guilds causing problems and rules lawyering, there is no solution. Period. It's not some magic set of rules that will fix everything but no one has come up with them yet. It's classic EQ, and it happened on (almost) every server.

Both the appeal and problem with classic EQ raiding is the lack of instances. No other game has the head to head competition where often times it's a single tiny detail that lets you win the fight that time, but next time the other guild knows so you better come up with something new or you may lose. And at the same time, it's always going to cause friction, because there is always going to be a winner and a loser.

Everyone who suggests that guilds take turns with a rotation or play as nice people that can enjoy losing to the competition doesn't really want to be involved in classic EQ raiding. They want the WoW style instances where everyone wins, which is fine, it is in fact what the vast majority of MMO players desire. However, the raiders here want the competition, they want the feel of seeing the other people that they're beating right next to them trying for the mob and failing. No other game has captured that, and sadly it looks like no other game will, because the genre has clearly moved away from it.

[Skope]

Everyone who suggests that guilds take turns with a rotation or play as nice people that can enjoy losing to the competition doesn't really want to be involved in classic EQ raiding. They want the WoW style instances where everyone wins, which is fine, it is in fact what the vast majority of MMO players desire. However, the raiders here want the competition, they want the feel of seeing the other people that they're beating right next to them trying for the mob and failing. No other game has captured that, and sadly it looks like no other game will, because the genre has clearly moved away from it.

classic live EQ had rotations and even calendar-based rotations enforced strictly by GMs. classic live EQ also had FFA where, unless your corpse disappeared, the GMs didn't care. what's difficult to ignore is the poo volcano the 2 competing guilds and their fanboys RnF verbal thrashing ultimately exacerbated the issue. spout your nonsense elsewhere

[Doors]

Honestly fuck banning these kids. Out right delete their characters, accounts, whatever then IP ban them. Once a cheater always a cheater.

Take the server population hit. Losing shitty players on your emu is not a loss, its addition by subtraction.

[Kruel]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rogeans Post on Rant and flames:

Lets get one thing straight folks. We don't answer to you.

There has been a lot of petitions lately, a lot of posts on the forums, with everyone trying to critique GM Decisions. The developers of this project put way too much time into this for us to be put on the spotlight every single time we make a decision, ESPECIALLY when you ASSUME you know all the facts. 90% of the time, you don't. Situations are handled between the staff and the players directly involved. Any dialog between a GM and a player can be considered a private matter, and will not be open to public debate. Players will divulge their interactions with GM's as they see fit, maybe giving all details and maybe not disclosing all of it, and quite possible they themselves aren't aware of every point of consideration in a staff decision.

I'm getting quite tired of everything being questioned, everyone assuming they are experts in every decision being made. Its getting old quite fast. We make decisions based on our best judgements, often discussing large impacting decisions with several staff members first. You are welcome to report anything you may believe to be unjustified use of GM privileges to the petition forum or Nilbog and myself, but this would only be in situations where you believe a GM did not act as they are instructed so, and an investigation may occur, but do not think that this suddenly privies you to all information associated with any decision. I realize that the environment for our community is a little more open than such organizations as SOE Itself, with more direct involvement in the community by the developers, but there are certain ways things need to be handled, and they wont always be agreed on by everyone, but thats how it is in any scenario. Many of us, including myself, do not play on the server. That means we spend all of our time working to better the server, and handling the issues that arise. We make decisions based on our best judgement, with no favoritism for any play character connections, so you will have to trust in our opinions for the health of the server.


Just a thought that this isnt R&F, and you are publicly bashing a guild and a server staff decision.

[Harrison]

There is a very, very simple solution because this isn't a for-profit project.

Ban offenders that are beyond a reasonable doubt. Period.

You can't be wishy-washy with scumbags who don't respect the very obvious rules you've laid down for them in the first place. They're not to be respected since they disrespected you first, given second chances, or pitied. You handle them like criminals and ostracize them at a very minimum.

Trained blatantly/with proof? Banned.
SEQ? Banned.
MQ? Banned.
Continuous killstealing? Banned.
Spamming? Banned.
Etc. Etc. The rules are clear and listed.

The moment you kowtow to these pieces of shit by and large, like we sort of have going on now, you're losing an uphill battle.

[arduin]

classic live EQ had rotations and even calendar-based rotations enforced strictly by GMs. classic live EQ also had FFA where, unless your corpse disappeared, the GMs didn't care. what's difficult to ignore is the poo volcano the 2 competing guilds and their fanboys RnF verbal thrashing exacerbated this issue. spout your nonsense elsewhere

That depends on your server, I know my server never had GM enforced anything, and neither did lots of the other servers. Well, except the GM enforced sleeper incident.

[Skope]

Just a thought that this isnt R&F, and you are publicly bashing a guild and a server staff decision.

not my first time and won't be my last. i'm belligerent but i have a tendency to make good points

[Silentone]

Ya I agree, my server was cuthroat...if you never experienced it then you must have been on a carebare server... 7th hammer was ruthless and we would do anything to kill raid mobs and cockblock the rest of the server...

[Skope]

Ya I agree, my server was cuthroat...if you never experienced it then you must have been on a carebare server... 7th hammer was ruthless and we would do anything to kill raid mobs and cockblock the rest of the server...

the point is your experience means squat when someone else's is the exact opposite. it only means that both options should always be on the table.

[Guldgoa]

skope is right

[jarshale]

There is a very, very simple solution because this isn't a for-profit project.

Ban offenders that are beyond a reasonable doubt. Period.

You can't be wishy-washy with scumbags who don't respect the very obvious rules you've laid down for them in the first place. They're not to be respected since they disrespected you first, given second chances, or pitied. You handle them like criminals and ostracize them at a very minimum.

Trained blatantly/with proof? Banned.
SEQ? Banned.
MQ? Banned.
Continuous killstealing? Banned.
Spamming? Banned.
Etc. Etc. The rules are clear and listed.

The moment you kowtow to these pieces of shit by and large, like we sort of have going on now, you're losing an uphill battle.

[Kevlar]

I just think this wrist slapping is kind of sad. This place is starting to feel like live where the cheaters are running rampant.

One of the things I really liked when I signed up here was the strict policy, in writing, of how exactly cheaters would be dealt with.

Well, so much for that idea.

[Planet]

Which TMO Officers were found to be using Show EQ

TMO officers have mult. accounts and uses them account not Tagged TMO to do there law breaking, Rogean why do you allow theses children to play you has a fool?

[G13]

TMO officers have mult. accounts and uses them account not Tagged TMO to do there law breaking, Rogean why do you allow theses children to play you has a fool?

Name the account that was banned, that was being used by a TMO officer

Otherwise STFU

[Harrison]

I already did.

[Planet]

Name the account that was banned, that was being used by a TMO officer

Otherwise STFU

LOL you think Rogean little sock.Dll caught all the cheaters? please stfu Beowulf been uising MQ and HackEQ for months

[Harrison]

Someone ban Tamiah again please.

Beowulf is one of the good guys in TMO.

[Rogean]

46 more accounts flagged since the suspensions... just sayin'

Those will be getting permanent bans.

[Guldgoa]

46 more accounts flagged since the suspensions... just sayin'

Those will be getting permanent bans.

crazy

[Shiftin]

that really is amazing.

[Tamiah2011]

Someone ban Tamiah again please.

Beowulf is one of the good guys in TMO.

When did I get banned?

[Labyrrinth]

There is a very, very simple solution because this isn't a for-profit project.

Ban offenders that are beyond a reasonable doubt. Period.

You can't be wishy-washy with scumbags who don't respect the very obvious rules you've laid down for them in the first place. They're not to be respected since they disrespected you first, given second chances, or pitied. You handle them like criminals and ostracize them at a very minimum.

Trained blatantly/with proof? Banned.
SEQ? Banned.
MQ? Banned.
Continuous killstealing? Banned.
Spamming? Banned.
Etc. Etc. The rules are clear and listed.

The moment you kowtow to these pieces of shit by and large, like we sort of have going on now, you're losing an uphill battle.

agreed,, once people know that you MEAN it, they won't challenge it (some will but... w/e)

It's like having kids, they are going to test you. Don't give in.

[Tamiah2011]

46 more accounts flagged since the suspensions... just sayin'

Those will be getting permanent bans.

That good, but the other 280+ should be perma banned as well since alot got perma banned for much lesser offenses.

[Seaweedpimp]

That good, but the other 280+ should be perma banned as well since alot got perma banned for much lesser offenses.

u mean the other 365?

[Tamiah2011]

u mean the other 365?

im guessing 280 some were banned for running EZ server in back ground.oops meant suspended for 2 weeks not banned.

[Stibe]

im guessing 280 some were banned for running EZ server in back ground.oops meant suspended for 2 weeks not banned.

your poor grasp of english is a dead give away on your troll accounts btw.

[Tamiah2011]

your poor grasp of english is a dead give away on your troll accounts btw.

Like when is fact trolling, plus everyone has mult. forum accounts so please get over yourself.

[Mcbard]

What does this thread have to do with favoritism/Xzerion?

What benefit does using a 3rd party program as an officer as opposed to a member have on the outcome of a raid? If anything, a puller using those programs would have the biggest affect on the outcome of a raid I think!

[Spud]

46 more accounts flagged since the suspensions... just sayin'

Those will be getting permanent bans.

wow pretty amazing, people just don't learn. These people actually logged in with ShowEQ installed after the 365 accounts were caught?

I am satisfied with the original punishment given out to the first 365 offenders (sorry Skope). It was obviously a wide spread issue and banning 365 accounts off the bat could of been very bad for the servers health.

now Rogean is breaking out the ban hammer for the true knuckle heads.

[Spud]

Like when is fact trolling, plus everyone has mult. forum accounts so please get over yourself.

i don't

[Labyrrinth]

i don't

me neither

[Cyrano]

It's amazing how many people recently quit but are still here bitching about a server they don't actually play on.

This server has become a cesspool of the most ungrateful people I've ever encountered.

[Tamiah2011]

wow pretty amazing, people just don't learn. These people actually logged in with ShowEQ installed after the 365 accounts were caught?

I am satisfied with the original punishment given out to the first 365 offenders (sorry Skope). It was obviously a wide spread issue and banning 365 accounts off the bat could of been very bad for the servers health.

now Rogean is breaking out the ban hammer for the true knuckle heads.

That s bullshit and you know it, They need to be perma-banned just like many others were and reroll a new account if they want to try again. Why should the rules be bent for them?

[Vohl]

I'm thinking that reviewing each of the 365 accounts prior to banning, suspension, etc. would have been a staggering amount of work. Uthgaard posted about this practice shortly before resigning. Apparently, bans were not always handed out No Questions Asked, and some people who were honest and apologetic about their offense were given second chances prior to this episode.

[Spud]

That s bullshit and you know it, They need to be perma-banned just like many others were and reroll a new account if they want to try again. Why should the rules be bent for them?

Because there is 365 of them, which is a huge portion of active accounts. There's only a 600-800 accounts logged in any given night. I could see why Nilbog and Rogean would be hesitant to just cut off that much of the servers population, don't you?

I said i was satisfied with the punishment. I wouldn't mind seeing them stripped of all their loot as well as Klaatu has proposed but i'm not going to go ape shit on Rogean and Nilbog for comming to a conclusion I could only assume had the servers best intentions in mind.

[Tyen01]

If any guilds get raid suspensions, it would be all of them. If that's what you want I will consider it. I asked the raid guilds to start working with eachother and getting along and you still cannot go one week without multiple raid disputes and rule lawyering.

Fish Bait will rise again

[Tamiah2011]

Because there is 365 of them, which is a huge portion of active accounts. There's only a 600-800 accounts logged in any given night. I could see why Nilbog and Rogean would be hesitant to just cut off that much of the servers population, don't you?

I said i was satisfied with the punishment. I wouldn't mind seeing them stripped of all their loot as well as Klaatu has proposed but i'm not going to go ape shit on Rogean and Nilbog for comming to a conclusion I could only assume had the servers best intentions in mind.



Your satisfied with the judgement because nothing has ever happen with your account. I am very sure you would feel different if it had effect you and you were perma banned while ours were slapped on the wrist.

[G13]

LOL you think Rogean little sock.Dll caught all the cheaters? please stfu Beowulf been uising MQ and HackEQ for months

What officers in TMO were banned for using ShowEQ

You haven't named any yet

[Spud]

Your satisfied with the judgement because nothing has ever happen with your account. I am very sure you would feel different if it had effect you and you were perma banned while ours were slapped on the wrist.

I don't cheat though so I don't have to worry about being perma banned or being slapped on the wrist.

[Tamiah2011]

What officers in TMO were banned for using ShowEQ

You haven't named any yet

rogean has not posted a list of all suspended so how would I know which TMO member was caught? But I know for fact they were using MQ and HackEQ when I was in TMO..At this point it dosnt matter cause Rogean isnt perma banned account anyways.Bullshit but true.

[Enygma]

If anything, a puller using those programs would have the biggest affect on the outcome of a raid I think!

So you agree with me that Perun and Stefan (being in that category, Perun in both - raid leader and puller) would have a huge advantage? And much of TR's success could be attributed to same?

I would wager to guess you also agree as a result TR should be raid suspended?

Even their own guild feels this is the necessary punishment.

Sworen

[G13]

rogean has not posted a list of all suspended so how would I know which TMO member was caught? But I know for fact they were using MQ and HackEQ when I was in TMO..At this point it dosnt matter cause Rogean isnt perma banned account anyways.Bullshit but true.

Which TMO officer was banned for using ShowEQ

[Cwall]

wipe it clean

[Albel420]

ban everyone you've caught the past 2-3 weeks and delete their accts while you're at it. zero tolerance until the numbers are in triple digits? zero tolerance, period.

Ack don't do that, atleast look into my situation before this happens :P i play on ez and mq2 is used there for the /stick . I logged of ez to play some p99 and forgot to disable it and i logged in, asoon as i logged in i noticed it was up and logged straight out and idsabled it, been like a week now, no response since ive added my account name and what happened, imo being punished for a 10 second accident is ridiculous . Yet no one seems to want to take the time to say hey were looking into it, or give me a straight forward answer. dont get me wrong im not trying to be a douche here, just saying. i goofed up yeah, but just looking at my account can show that i used nothing to benefit me, my druid is poorly geared and broke....

[mitic]

Ack don't do that, atleast look into my situation before this happens :P i play on ez and mq2 is used there for the /stick . I logged of ez to play some p99 and forgot to disable it and i logged in, asoon as i logged in i noticed it was up and logged straight out and idsabled it, been like a week now, no response since ive added my account name and what happened, imo being punished for a 10 second accident is ridiculous . Yet no one seems to want to take the time to say hey were looking into it, or give me a straight forward answer. dont get me wrong im not trying to be a douche here, just saying. i goofed up yeah, but just looking at my account can show that i used nothing to benefit me, my druid is poorly geared and broke....

just dont use mq at all imo. all other emu servers are a joke compared to p99 difficulty

[Arkis]

It's amazing how many people recently quit but are still here bitching about a server they don't actually play on.

This server has become a cesspool of the most ungrateful people I've ever encountered.

Pretty much. I was updated on some happenings on the server and came back to look at wtf it's become. Saw this thread. Saw a few more threads. Saw some RnF threads.

Lol. It's no wonder the famous Crow, original leader IB, had quit over the community.

Even if I thought of coming back for lolz, I won't know. Have fun P99, Red99 would have been cool, but will probably suffer from the same shit.

My god you people are ungrateful pieces of shit. The people that run this server need to just fucking delete people's accounts.

And for the record, Xzerion is the fucking man. You dipshits need to stfu if you don't want to lose more developers.

For the rest of the people that haven't been complaining and have been enjoying the server, have a nice day! :)

[Albel420]

just dont use mq at all imo. all other emu servers are a joke compared to p99 difficulty

yeah havent logged back into ez lol and deleted mq2, just played on ez from time to time when i was bored

[Skope]

spud, if people are going to cheat on p99 by duping, SEQ/MQ it was always with the understanding that if caught, their bans would be permanent. No exceptions. You don't back down when 365 dickheads are caught in a net in one fell swoop and then pussy out because that's a really really big number.

Instead of purging the server of a massive number of people who'd thought they could take advantage you've given them a slap on the wrist and then welcomed them back. I've said this before, with the current punishment handed out to those original 365 accounts it actually paid off to cheat here for approximately 2 years. The argument that the new .dll file will mean this server is cleaner than fippy is all fine and dandy, but what the hell happened to the last ~2 years? with that ruling, i was asked, as well as the rest of the server, to forget about what happened before and to somehow excuse them because the GMs excused them. No thanks, i'd rather quit. i'm not playing on a server where the GMs are gonna be bossed around and bend in the severity of punishments because of mere numbers. It's your sandbox and it's your rules, but the way you apply them is ass backwards and that's not something that i want to be a part of or ever look forward to. Will it hurt the server by decreasing population? yes, but i'm pretty sure we can do without them. The point that you're missing is that this approach hurts the population even further when you consider how fucking stupid and ill-informed it was. A lot of people have quit a long time ago partly because they knew how bad it was and when it was finally addressed the GMs balked, and i'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks that this was too much to swallow.

If you don't agree with a GMs decisions you can bitch and moan, you can present your case and hope they'll see it. but when they let off 365 people they ask you, by continuing to play here, that you be just as forgiving. No. I quit

[Anger]

spud, if people are going to cheat on p99 by duping, SEQ/MQ it was always with the understanding that if caught, their bans would be permanent. No exceptions. You don't back down when 365 dickheads are caught in a net in one fell swoop and then pussy out because that's a really really big number.

Instead of purging the server of a massive number of people who'd thought they could take advantage you've given them a slap on the wrist and then welcomed them back. I've said this before, with the current punishment handed out to those original 365 accounts it actually paid off to cheat here for approximately 2 years. The argument that the new .dll file will mean this server is cleaner than fippy is all fine and dandy, but what the hell happened to the last ~2 years? with that ruling, i was asked, as well as the rest of the server, to forget about what happened before and to somehow excuse them because the GMs excused them. No thanks, i'd rather quit. i'm not playing on a server where the GMs are gonna be bossed around and bend in the severity of punishments because of mere numbers. It's your sandbox and it's your rules, but the way you apply them is ass backwards and that's not something that i want to be a part of or ever look forward to. Will it hurt the server by decreasing population? yes, but i'm pretty sure we can do without them. The point that you're missing is that this approach hurts the population even further when you consider how fucking stupid and ill-informed it was. A lot of people have quit a long time ago partly because they knew how bad it was and when it was finally addressed the GMs balked, and i'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks that this was too much to swallow.

If you don't agree with a GMs decisions you can bitch and moan, you can present your case and hope they'll see it. but when they let off 365 people they ask you, by continuing to play here, that you be just as forgiving. No. I quit

365 less people = less ad clicks = less server profit.

derp.

[Autotune]

365 less people = less ad clicks = less server profit.

derp.

it isn't 365 people. ACCOUNTS DO NOT = PEOPLE.


Its more likely closer to 100 people maybe 150. Most of those are probably ones that didn't do anything with the program because they play EZ server and messed up switching servers.

Prolly anywhere between 50-80 people that actually would be lost due to them getting banned that actually cheated. How many cheaters do you expect to actually click a banner ad as well? Knowing that they could get banned at any time.

[Anger]

it isn't 365 people. ACCOUNTS DO NOT = PEOPLE.


Its more likely closer to 100 people maybe 150. Most of those are probably ones that didn't do anything with the program because they place EZ server and messed up switching servers.

Prolly anywhere between 50-80 people that actually would be lost due to them getting banned that actually cheated. How many cheaters do you expect to actually click a banner ad as well? Knowing that they could get banned at any time.

The number really isn't the issue - think ya kinda missed the point.

Statistically, they'd lose money if they banned that many accounts.

[Skope]

365 less people = less ad clicks = less server profit.

derp.

if it's about ad revenue then why ban anyone at all? ever? they're all potential and can chip in to the server funds.

[Autotune]

The number really isn't the issue - think ya kinda missed the point.

Statistically, they'd lose money if they banned that many accounts.

The number is the issue, that's why they didn't ban them in the first place.

[Amelinda]

46 more accounts flagged since the suspensions... just sayin'

Those will be getting permanent bans.

people are dumb.

[Anger]

The number is the issue, that's why they didn't ban them in the first place.

Not quite sure I follow, but lets talk about the numbers then.

If they ban every one of those accounts, it's a good deal of potential profit that they may or may not lose.

If they don't ban any of them ever then P99 gets branded as a "classic EQ server that you can cheat on to get ahead", turning what i'd imagine would be even more people away from the server/turning away current good standing people that already play here.

Really they did the best thing in that aspect by allowing the one time '"grace period" for said accounts. Shows current/potential players that cheating isn't tolerated, while keeping the players of those 365 accounts around for more potential profit.

[deneauth]

Typically this type of violation results in a permanent ban. While we are furious that this many people chose to think we aren't serious about our rules, we also aren't willing to simply throw away that many accounts.

Allow me to shed some light. I understand what you are saying, but it still sounds to me like the number of offenses was the reason they were not getting permanent bans.

[Skope]

If they don't ban any of them ever then P99 gets branded as a "classic EQ server that you can cheat on to get ahead", turning what i'd imagine would be even more people away from the server/turning away current good standing people that already play here.

Really they did the best thing in that aspect by allowing the one time '"grace period" for said accounts. Shows current/potential players that cheating isn't tolerated, while keeping the players of those 365 accounts around for more potential profit.

don't forget that the GMs get branded as being able to be pushed around by sheer number of cheaters.

don't forget the people that played under the notion that the rules applied to everyone equally, regardless of who they were or how many. With this ruling you couldn't have sent a clearer "no, they don't"

had i known these 2 things do you think i'd have joined this server in the first place? shit, nilbog/rogean could have spared me quite a bit of trouble from the start

[Autotune]

Not quite sure I follow, but lets talk about the numbers then.

If they ban every one of those accounts, it's a good deal of potential profit that they may or may not lose.

If they don't ban any of them ever then P99 gets branded as a "classic EQ server that you can cheat on to get ahead", turning what i'd imagine would be even more people away from the server/turning away current good standing people that already play here.

Really they did the best thing in that aspect by allowing the one time '"grace period" for said accounts. Shows current/potential players that cheating isn't tolerated, while keeping the players of those 365 accounts around for more potential profit.

Looking at it as 365 accounts were all cheaters is one thing.

However, there is no telling how many where actually flagged because they left it on when they logged into p99 and never used it (meaning they didn't cheat with it). These were supposedly getting overturned. So the 365 accounts suspended is most likely not 365 suspended accounts for cheating, just 365 flagged accounts as possible cheaters (and some where).

Without actually having the numbers and knowing how many got over turned and what IP's had the most accounts as actual cheaters and so forth it's all speculation.

I don't think it is as bad as you say it is, and it's probably not as light as I say. I am sure it wouldn't hurt the server to see 100-150 actual cheating people leave the server. Especially seeing how they have said before that even if no one played on the server they would continue to develop p99.

[Anger]

Both you and Skope have valid points. I suppose it's utter speculation at this point.

You know what they say though, money is the root of all evil. Wonder how many of those item dupers were selling in game plat for real money on one of those trade sites.

[Skope]

Both you and Skope have valid points. I suppose it's utter speculation at this point.

no it isn't. let's get down to business...

Rogean/Nilbog, is there any chance you'd punish these people far more severely than the current punishment that's been handed out? This will seal any chance of me coming back and will mean i delete my forum account as well. So do me a solid and let me know, you'll be saving me and others quite a bit of time.

[Autotune]

no it isn't. let's get down to business...

Rogean/Nilbog, is there any chance you'd punish these people far more severely than the current punishment that's been handed out? This will seal any chance of me coming back and will mean i delete my forum account as well. So do me a solid and let me know, you'll be saving me and others quite a bit of time.

Banning the accounts outright would have been pretty harsh on some of the people that were flagged due to a simple mistake.

Banning the accounts of actual cheaters would be justifiable.

Suspending the accounts of flagged people is fine imo, just ban the ones that were actually cheating.

A suspension is a fine punishment for someone who forgets to leave his cheats running when switching servers, it isn't for someone who willingly chose to "cheat the system" for personal gains.

Edit:
I'd like to have seen "365 accounts were flagged as cheaters. These accounts have been suspended until we can review them and determine the severity of the infraction. At the end of the (insert time frame here), all accounts deemed to have broken the (insert server cheating/hacking rule) will be banned permanently."

[Skope]

Banning the accounts outright would have been pretty harsh on some of the people that were flagged due to a simple mistake.

Banning the accounts of actual cheaters would be justifiable.

Suspending the accounts of flagged people is fine imo, just ban the ones that were actually cheating.

A suspension is a fine punishment for someone who forgets to leave his cheats running when switching servers, it isn't for someone who willingly chose to "cheat the system" for personal gains.

there's ways of distinguishing the two, but instead a single punishment was considered and it was thought to be fair and lessen the workload... welp, it isn't. you've caught sight of the giant gorilla in the room that's been here since server's creation and instead of pointing to the door he was told to come back in 2 weeks.

I want my question answered

[Harrison]

Ack don't do that, atleast look into my situation before this happens :P i play on ez and mq2 is used there for the /stick . I logged of ez to play some p99 and forgot to disable it and i logged in, asoon as i logged in i noticed it was up and logged straight out and idsabled it, been like a week now, no response since ive added my account name and what happened, imo being punished for a 10 second accident is ridiculous . Yet no one seems to want to take the time to say hey were looking into it, or give me a straight forward answer. dont get me wrong im not trying to be a douche here, just saying. i goofed up yeah, but just looking at my account can show that i used nothing to benefit me, my druid is poorly geared and broke....

I don't think anyone is saying to ban the legitimate people who made this mistake, however few they are. (Because most of these claims are bullshit and they will know, anyways.)

Make your post in the petitions section.

[Anger]

Quickly becoming another RnF thread.

[Messianic]

Sack up, Rogean

I don't see how people can say stuff like this, then think it doesn't come off as an insult and make them look like jackasses who need to be permabanned

[bluejam]

VS fight has become "we cant clear to him, or the other guild will leapfrog us. so we'll leave the raid force at the zone line, and try to get FTE on VS. If we train every exp camp from VS room to zone in, and everyone fighting at zone in, along the way, so be it. At least we may get the kill!"

Where did this come from? Draco. FG's.

When gms set the precedence that it doesnt matter who kills the trash, it's ok to leapfrog others and it's all about who gets the named, all bets were off. The guild that stops to clear won't get the boss. The guild that trains every mob in the zone, kills the boss, loots 5 seconds before they wipe, has "won"* - even if that win means anyone else raiding / exping in that zone has had to eat a death / lose their exp time as part of the cost.

*Won. Heh. It's not just one guild doing this. If it doesn't wipe my raid, I don't petition it; we're supposed to be working things out not pissing gm's off. But that doesn't mean we don't see it, ss it, fraps it, and have to decide when the next boss spawns if it's worth going after or not based on the recent server history with petitions and gm responses.
This is why FTE is a flawed rule. Makes sense in theory, but ingame, it looks very very grim - see Trak, Draco, CT, any of the kitable outdoor dragons... there's a lot of grey area.

[deneauth]

I agree Messianic, this is server chat, not R & F. There has been some good legitmate arguing going on here, lets try to keep the flaming to a minimal at least, if we can't stop ranting. Anyway this is a very touchy subject. The rules stated are clear as previously posted, but on the other hand, as Rogean previously posted, 365 accounts are just too many to throw away. A middle ground had to be decided apon. A 2 week suspension plus the deleveling and stripping of coin is is a fairly harsh punishment. That being said I can also sympthise with the arguements that the possibility exists these people may or may not have been cheating for the better part of 2 years and aquired pleanty of gear using these cheats. What it boils down to is it is not our decision to make, as Rogean has said before, the development team doesn't answer to us, although many would beg to differ at this point.

[Skope]

What it boils down to is it is not our decision to make, as Rogean has said before, the development team doesn't answer to us, although many would beg to differ at this point.

this pendulum swings both ways. if you disagree with the staffs decision and they won't budge then you always have the option to consider whether or not you've had enough. if you need the other side to this argument then just look back on this thread as there really isn't much left to say that hasn't been said. this isn't the first time i think they've gone wrong, but the others weren't game-breaking, this on the other hand i feel really is.

there are always 2 decisions here, theirs and then yours. the notion they don't care about whether or not people will play here is utter BS and though nilb0g may actually adhere to that quite firmly, i don't think rogean does.

[deneauth]

I agree that the development team probably should of stuck to their guns and permanently banned the accounts that were hacking as stated in the rules. The decision would not have effected me one iota. If you don't want to play on the server anymore you don't have to, I for one still enjoy playing, and am going to continue to play regardless of how the development team may or may have mishandled this for lack of a better word "fiasco." As always these are just the opinions of one anonymous person over the internet, and I don't know if we ever ended up grouping together Skope but I would have enjoyed meeting and playing with you in game, because I only play for the nostalgia and social aspect of EQ, not the raiding aspect.

Mad props to Rogean, Nilbog, Uthgaard, and the rest for this server, I was unimployed for 8 months and this server kept me from doing self destructive things during that time, I appreciate you all more than you can know.

[Skope]

As always these are just the opinions of one anonymous person over the internet, and I don't know if we ever ended up grouping together Skope but I would have enjoyed meeting and playing with you in game, because I only play for the nostalgia and social aspect of EQ, not the raiding aspect.

i do too, but it's shit like this that makes it incredibly difficult.

[Spud]

I don't know if we ever ended up grouping together Skope but I would have enjoyed meeting and playing with you in game

Don't worry you didn't miss much.

JK... Skope was a great necro/wiz/mage/shaman/guild mate.

hey Skopery why don't you come back now that Rogean is handing out the bannings?

[deneauth]

What ever happened to Nynn btw? I levelled up Find with her almost all the way to level 50 then she joined Divinity, and quit shortly afterwards. I know it had nothing to do with the guild b/c Divinity is awesome, but I thought perhaps you all knew/heard something.

[Robben]

Without even getting into specifics I can cite numerous instances of extreme dicketry by TR. Just last night I was with a group in KC when TR busts in, shouts for everyone who isn't TR to get out of the zone, then proceeds to train everyone who doesn't leave. Fuck TR.

Sounds like a great group of guys

[Loly Taa]

Rogean, I was told back when I played in Classic that Xzerion never had database accesss, yet this post I just read tells me the complete opposite;


By Xzerion...

When Kunark was launced my database access was revoked

So wait... the leader of the top guild on the server had database access until Kunark? What shit is this?

[JenJen]

deep breaths

[booter]

Looks like not everything you are told is true.

I'm assuming Xz had database access because he was actively developing Kunark up until it launched. Once it launched, it was taken away. Same thing with his time developing Classic.

[john_savage1982]

It baffled me why people are still devoted to this game and this server. Yall got problems.

[Hasbinbad]

Rogean, I was told back when I played in Classic that Xzerion never had database accesss, yet this post I just read tells me the complete opposite;


By Xzerion...

When Kunark was launced my database access was revoked

So wait... the leader of the top guild on the server had database access until Kunark? What shit is this?
The entire group of server staff is involved in a conspiracy to keep TMO from getting dragons. Combined with our forces of non-detectable showeq, we scour the interwebz for ways to make it more difficult for you to get pixels.

http://i.imgur.com/dnI6J.jpg

[Loly Taa]

The entire group of server staff is involved in a conspiracy to keep TMO from getting dragons. Combined with our forces of non-detectable showeq, we scour the interwebz for ways to make it more difficult for you to get pixels.

http://i.imgur.com/dnI6J.jpg

Well obviously Uth wasn't involved, or he wouldn't have quit over the corruption.

[johnny ringo]

Rogean, I was told back when I played in Classic that Xzerion never had database accesss, yet this post I just read tells me the complete opposite;


By Xzerion...

When Kunark was launced my database access was revoked

So wait... the leader of the top guild on the server had database access until Kunark? What shit is this?

loly thinks there's a conspiracy aganist him, news at 11

[Muerte]

46 more accounts flagged since the suspensions... just sayin'

Those will be getting permanent bans.

crazy

[G13]

The entire group of server staff is involved in a conspiracy to keep TMO from getting dragons. Combined with our forces of non-detectable showeq, we scour the interwebz for ways to make it more difficult for you to get pixels.

http://i.imgur.com/dnI6J.jpg

Pure emotional strawman

[Foxx]

FREE KOOTA

[mala]

Can it just be established knowledge that these 350 people weren't suspended because a few of them were friends of the Dev's?

Why does everyone keep beating around the bush here... the server is corrupt.

[Diggles]

not really

[Littlegyno]

pvp could fix this.

[Kevlar]

Can it just be established knowledge that these 350 people weren't suspended because a few of them were friends of the Dev's?

Why does everyone keep beating around the bush here... the server is corrupt.

So keep the handful of dev ass kissers, and suspend the other 330+. Would still be a better server.

[Foxx]

Can it just be established knowledge that these 350 people weren't suspended because a few of them were friends of the Dev's?

Why does everyone keep beating around the bush here... the server is corrupt.

http://www.newswireless.net/contentimages/medium/Inspector_Gadget.jpg

[yaaaflow]

Can it just be established knowledge that these 350 people weren't suspended because a few of them were friends of the Dev's?

Why does everyone keep beating around the bush here... the server is corrupt.

Why wouldn't they have just removed their pals from the list of people who cheated and then punished the rest then?

[booter]

Can it just be established knowledge that these 350 people weren't suspended because a few of them were friends of the Dev's?

Why does everyone keep beating around the bush here... the server is corrupt.

It was directly addressed in the news post when it happened: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46654

Typically this type of violation results in a permanent ban. While we are furious that this many people chose to think we aren't serious about our rules, we also aren't willing to simply throw away that many accounts.

You either trust Nilbog/Rogean or you don't. It's pretty simple. For those that don't, why even play? Just log off and get on with your lives.

[mala]

Why wouldn't they have just removed their pals from the list of people who cheated and then punished the rest then?


News of the exemptions would come to light within a week, creating a whole other kind of shit storm. The course of action taken was just a way for the dev's to give their friends a slap on the wrist, and not having to outright ban them, without appearing to show favoritism.

[Diggles]

Mala, I don't think your tinfoil hat is on tight enough

[Ring]

loly thinks there's a conspiracy aganist him, news at 11

Drop out of P1999 like it's high school, Loly.

[Loly Taa]

Drop out of P1999 like it's high school, Loly.

I adore how you think that bothers me.

[mala]

Mala, I don't think your tinfoil hat is on tight enough

this completely derails my point, well done.

who are you again? wait... we dont care.

[Diggles]

who are you again? wait... we dont care.

this works both ways.

[mala]

this works both ways.

coming from a dedicated forum troll account this really hurts bro.

[Harrison]

News of the exemptions would come to light within a week, creating a whole other kind of shit storm. The course of action taken was just a way for the dev's to give their friends a slap on the wrist, and not having to outright ban them, without appearing to show favoritism.

Who is this moron?

[Skope]

hey Skopery why don't you come back now that Rogean is handing out the bannings?

because they're not handing out the bannings. they're permabanning the people caught after 365 special cases.

[Gwence]

Dropping 6 levels, all platinum, and 2 weeks suspension, that's a adequate punishment imo.

Some of you guys are really vindictive because you've had things happen to you in the past or are just straight bitter (G13 lol much respect) and now you think these people aren't getting the same treatment as you got or whatever...


I'd suggest marijuana for most of you, might help ease your stress.

[Seaweedpimp]

Dropping 6 levels, all platinum, and 2 weeks suspension, that's a adequate punishment imo.

Some of you guys are really vindictive because you've had things happen to you in the past or are just straight bitter (G13 lol much respect) and now you think these people aren't getting the same treatment as you got or whatever...


I'd suggest marijuana for most of you, might help ease your stress.



wipe it clean gwence




your cheating roster that is

[Salty]

wipe it clean gwence




your cheating roster that is

correct

[Skope]

Dropping 6 levels, all platinum, and 2 weeks suspension, that's a adequate punishment imo.

hypothetical scenario, gwence:

Asdf started playing here in Nov 09 and after a couple of weeks installed SEQ. He's been enjoying the pleasure of knowing everything that goes on in every zone for a period of 1.5 years. He's collected massive amounts of $$ selling items with his dungeon farming necro, spotting nameds simply by zoning in. Though he's got a ton of $$, he's bought nearly all of the gear he needs on his main and alts that he didn't get while raiding.

He gets caught, loses 6 levels and gets his $$ stripped. Mind you, he has more money in items than he ever had in pure plat. Do you really think that's fair? Hell, where is your old guildie Ralph? How long was he SEQing and how much $$ do you think he made from PKTs and twinked how many chars? These are the people getting off easy. If this was written in the rules and i knew this when signing up i would have never joined this server

[Gwence]

wipe it clean gwence




your cheating roster that is

you get pained soul yet?

[Gwence]

hypothetical scenario, gwence:

Asdf started playing here in Nov 09 and after a couple of weeks installed SEQ. He's been enjoying the pleasure of knowing everything that goes on in every zone for a period of 1.5 years. He's collected massive amounts of $$ selling items with his dungeon farming necro, spotting nameds simply by zoning in. Though he's got a ton of $$, he's bought nearly all of the gear he needs on his main and alts that he didn't get while raiding.

He gets caught, loses 6 levels and gets his $$ stripped. Mind you, he has more money in items than he ever had in pure plat. Do you really think that's fair? Hell, where is your old guildie Ralph? How long was he SEQing and how much $$ do you think he made from PKTs and twinked how many chars? These are the people getting off easy. If this was written in the rules and i knew this when signing up i would have never joined this server

Shit happens pal, you really want to sit there and focus on all this 24/7 to an extent where it starts to effect your fun? They are making efforts to get rid of and punish these people, Im happy for that. But there's a few people that got hit are my friends, they deserve a punishment, but not an exile or an execution.

and Ralph was never my guildie

[JayDee]

didnt read gwences post but im pretty sure he mad about wasting his life logged in 20 hours out of the day for a garbage server with corrupt gms and hackers

[Skope]

Shit happens pal, you really want to sit there and focus on all this 24/7 to an extent where it starts to effect your fun? They are making efforts to get rid of and punish these people, Im happy for that. But there's a few people that got hit are my friends, they deserve a punishment, but not an exile or an execution.

and Ralph was never my guildie

he played a mage alt in your guild for a while, granted i think it was only for a period of a few weeks.

Secondly, all i ask is that the rules that govern this server be dealt in a manner that's consistent and treats all players equally. That's the difference between you and me. I'd expect even harsher treatment against a person wearing a <divinity> tag, because they should know better, whereas clearly you'd rather dick people by having your buds come back early and hardly scathed even if it means the punishments are unfair. If that's something that won't happen here, even if it's only 365 special cases (still trying to work that one out), that's a server where i don't want to play. furthermore, they aren't getting rid of them and the punishment isn't nearly as severe as the potential benefits they could have gained from cheating.

[Skope]

should read divinity tag, but the <'s and >'s don't play nice.

[JayDee]

Xzerion has committed treason imo

He was pretending to uphold the rules but he instead went sneakily behind everyone's back in an attempt to give one side an unfair advantage.

im appalled friends

[Twopair]

Durison = Winterfresh

Argument nullified by stupidity and butthurt biased crying.

Really? I grouped with Winterfresh and his cleric alt a ton in Mistmoore.
It must have been a case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, they were so different.

[Ektar]

oh come on that avatar can NOT be ok.

I'm ok with it though.

[Gwence]

I dont want them to have a lessened punishment because they're my friends. I want them to have an adequate punishment, which it is, and then come back because this is a game and I dont take it as seriously as you apparently. If people enjoy playing this game I wouldn't wish it on anyone to never be able to play again.

The people that are habitual will get caught again, dont worry, and Im sure they'll be permanently gone. You're assuming some of the people caught now are habitual (which Im sure some are) and maybe this will change their outlook on it and they wont do it anymore. If they do then /shrug that's their choice and they will have to deal with those consequences as well.

[Twopair]

I dont want them to have a lessened punishment because they're my friends. I want them to have an adequate punishment, which it is, and then come back because this is a game and I dont take it as seriously as you apparently. If people enjoy playing this game I wouldn't wish it on anyone to never be able to play again.

The people that are habitual will get caught again, dont worry, and Im sure they'll be permanently gone. You're assuming some of the people caught now are habitual (which Im sure some are) and maybe this will change their outlook on it and they wont do it anymore. If they do then /shrug that's their choice and they will have to deal with those consequences as well.

[Kevlar]

Dropping 6 levels, all platinum, and 2 weeks suspension, that's a adequate punishment imo.

Some of you guys are really vindictive because you've had things happen to you in the past or are just straight bitter (G13 lol much respect) and now you think these people aren't getting the same treatment as you got or whatever...


I'd suggest marijuana for most of you, might help ease your stress.

Wrong.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I left live for this place because I was tired of how the hackers and multiboxers ran rampant. I actually believed the server rules when I signed up that all of these asshats would get an irrevokable ip ban.

Some of us just don't want to play with cheaters. period.

[nalkin]

Considering people were permabanned for committing lesser crimes in the past, it doesn't seem fair that people who were caught this time are getting less of a punishment (an extremely weak punishment at that). How does that make sense? Stripping characters of plat is such a joke punishment for most of the players who got caught. Either they need to unban everyone they banned in the past or ban everyone who got caught.

[Humerox]

Strip all characters on all accounts completely.

Offer a one-time amnesty to all previously banned accounts (prior to the last 46) provided they come back stripped and deleveled appropriately.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

VS fight has become "we cant clear to him, or the other guild will leapfrog us. so we'll leave the raid force at the zone line, and try to get FTE on VS. If we train every exp camp from VS room to zone in, and everyone fighting at zone in, along the way, so be it. At least we may get the kill!"

Where did this come from? Draco. FG's.

When gms set the precedence that it doesnt matter who kills the trash, it's ok to leapfrog others and it's all about who gets the named, all bets were off. The guild that stops to clear won't get the boss. The guild that trains every mob in the zone, kills the boss, loots 5 seconds before they wipe, has "won"* - even if that win means anyone else raiding / exping in that zone has had to eat a death / lose their exp time as part of the cost.

*Won. Heh. It's not just one guild doing this. If it doesn't wipe my raid, I don't petition it; we're supposed to be working things out not pissing gm's off. But that doesn't mean we don't see it, ss it, fraps it, and have to decide when the next boss spawns if it's worth going after or not based on the recent server history with petitions and gm responses.


Yup. Which is where I come back to we need to have a summit and agree upon rules for raiding. Because otherwise you need to suspend or ban people for training if it kills another group don't you? Does having a raid target make it ok to train the zone now? Your guild may have a method for going into fear and training to kill dracoliche but if another guild is in zone and you train them how is this tactic acceptable?

[Humerox]

Yup. Which is where I come back to we need to have a summit and agree upon rules for raiding.

Everyone did this a long time ago. Nilbog and Rogean decided not to enforce player-driven rules, which not only ruined what was accomplished, it ruined any chance of it ever being feasible.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Considering people were permabanned for committing lesser crimes in the past, it doesn't seem fair that people who were caught this time are getting less of a punishment (an extremely weak punishment at that). How does that make sense? Stripping characters of plat is such a joke punishment for most of the players who got caught. Either they need to unban everyone they banned in the past or ban everyone who got caught.

Well said.

[Enygma]

Please stay on track here... this post was regarding the fact that given the exact same circumstances:

1. Koota was caught using Show EQ tracking Dracoliche -> Koota was an officer of DA and as a result banned and Dark Ascension was Raid suspended for 1 week.

2. Perun was caught using Show EQ by a .dll file -> Perun was an officer/raid leader of Transatlantic Rampage and as a result was suspended and deleveled to 54 had platinum removed. TR was not raid suspended.

At this time Rogean has said he will discuss the matter with Nilbog.

Please discuss your thoughts of why this circumstance is at all different, both people had the same advantage and provided an advantage to their guild. Why should the punishment differ?

Your thoughts on the totality of circumstances regarding the 365+ accounts that were identified should be brought to another thread. Thank you.

Sworen

[Humerox]

Not really, because the smaller issue can be taken care of with a more satisfying response to the larger.

[Maze513]

Please stay on track here... this post was regarding the fact that given the exact same circumstances:

1. Koota was caught using Show EQ tracking Dracoliche -> Koota was an officer of DA and as a result banned and Dark Ascension was Raid suspended for 1 week.

2. Perun was caught using Show EQ by a .dll file -> Perun was an officer/raid leader of Transatlantic Rampage and as a result was suspended and deleveled to 54 had platinum removed. TR was not raid suspended.

At this time Rogean has said he will discuss the matter with Nilbog.

Please discuss your thoughts of why this circumstance is at all different, both people had the same advantage and provided an advantage to their guild. Why should the punishment differ?

Your thoughts on the totality of circumstances regarding the 365+ accounts that were identified should be brought to another thread. Thank you.

Sworen

[Daldolma]

Please stay on track here... this post was regarding the fact that given the exact same circumstances:

1. Koota was caught using Show EQ tracking Dracoliche -> Koota was an officer of DA and as a result banned and Dark Ascension was Raid suspended for 1 week.

2. Perun was caught using Show EQ by a .dll file -> Perun was an officer/raid leader of Transatlantic Rampage and as a result was suspended and deleveled to 54 had platinum removed. TR was not raid suspended.

At this time Rogean has said he will discuss the matter with Nilbog.

Please discuss your thoughts of why this circumstance is at all different, both people had the same advantage and provided an advantage to their guild. Why should the punishment differ?

Your thoughts on the totality of circumstances regarding the 365+ accounts that were identified should be brought to another thread. Thank you.

Sworen

Just taking a stab, but as far as I see, there are two significant differences.

#1 - Koota was caught using ShowEQ to the benefit of his guild, in order to track raid mobs. Regardless of whether or not DA knew how he was gaining this information, DA was clearly benefiting and raiding on the back of knowledge gained via 3rd party programs. While Perun was caught having utilized ShowEQ on P99, as far as I can tell, the circumstances and frequency of the usage were never divulged beyond what he himself said -- which is that it was only used on one occasion, and only in order to confirm that a dragon was being kited. Only a GM could verify the validity of that, but if it is true, it doesn't seem to be the equivalent of utilizing ShowEQ to indiscriminately track raid targets. Therefore, it's a bit of a logical leap -- at least for non-GMs -- to suggest TR benefited from Perun's use of ShowEQ in the manner that DA benefited from Koota's use of ShowEQ.

#2 - Koota was caught in a sting operation of sorts. From what I know, they were on the look-out for raid guilds using ShowEQ, and set up a trap to test it. Koota was the one and only person caught, and so it makes sense to come down hard. Even still, Koota himself was granted some leniency in that he was not permanently banned. Conversely, in this instance, 365 accounts were caught. All of them were granted leniency beyond any allowances that had previously been permitted. It wouldn't seem fair to hold TR to a harsh past precedent when every account caught is being granted leniency.

I think there are two fair scenarios.

#1 - permanently ban everyone caught cheating. Then, look into Perun's use of ShowEQ, and if it was utilized more than on that one specific occasion to verify a dragon being kited, raid ban TR for 1-week. That's fair.

#2 - What's been done. It's not ideal IMO, but it's fair. Everyone was given the same leniency, and it is a one-time and one-time only proposition. Anyone caught cheating henceforth -- whether it be an individual or a guild -- will be held to the server rules and past precedent.

[mala]

In response to the OP: there is no difference in my eyes. The punishment should be the same.

[G13]

Dropping 6 levels, all platinum, and 2 weeks suspension, that's a adequate punishment imo.

Some of you guys are really vindictive because you've had things happen to you in the past or are just straight bitter (G13 lol much respect) and now you think these people aren't getting the same treatment as you got or whatever...


I'd suggest marijuana for most of you, might help ease your stress.

That is not an adequate punishment. All of that exp and plat can be easily regained, especially when your guild is actively working to plvl you, and with a guild bank stock full of cash and items.

Your raid leader was caught using a 3rd party program to cheat. He has admitted he cheated openly during a raid against a competitive guild. If you do not distance yourself from this situation, by allowing him and other cheaters within your guild to re-app, you are making the statement that your guild accepts cheaters with open arms and will reward them.

If you want to cry in your cheerios and claim people have this opinion because they are vindictive than that's on you. You can try to mask your hypocrisy with arrogance and insults all you want. The facts are the facts. You can't troll your way around this one. IB/TR officer/raid leader was caught hacking/cheating and you accepted them back.

Previous guilds who had trackers/pullers/officers caught using SEQ were raid suspended for 2 weeks. The second time it was just a member that was caught, the guild suffered another 2 week raid suspension.

I propose that TR/IB suffer a 2 week raid suspension, since this can be considered your first infraction, and the player in question (beyond the numerous members that were caught cheating) was your raid leader/officer.

I have never cheated playing this game. There are a lot of players on this server with integrity that have never cheated, that have always assumed that other players played by the rules and it was an even playing field. By not taking appropriate action again your guild, the developers are making a statement. That they favor one guild over the other. EQUAL punishment is absolutely necessary to make this situation right.

Rogean you have always been reasonable. You know what I'm saying is true. If you're not going to perma ban these accounts, the proper and fair thing to do is at least hand out punishment that you yourself have previously set the precedent for, which is a 2 week raid suspension if an officer/raid leader is caught using a 3rd party program to cheat during competitive raids. Show the community they matter to you and do the right thing.

[Zenlina]

Koota himself was granted some leniency in that he was not permanently banned.

Yes but if you want to play by equal rights, then the others should be suspended for 3 month+ like koota then. Or at least i believe he was perma banned till kunark was open. Will need koota to confirm exactly on that.

[Gwence]

That is not an adequate punishment. All of that exp and plat can be easily regained, especially when your guild is actively working to plvl you, and with a guild bank stock full of cash and items.

Your raid leader was caught using a 3rd party program to cheat. He has admitted he cheated openly during a raid against a competitive guild. If you do not distance yourself from this situation, by allowing him and other cheaters within your guild to re-app, you are making the statement that your guild accepts cheaters with open arms and will reward them.

If you want to cry in your cheerios and claim people have this opinion because they are vindictive than that's on you. You can try to mask your hypocrisy with arrogance and insults all you want. The facts are the facts. You can't troll your way around this one. IB/TR officer/raid leader was caught hacking/cheating and you accepted them back.

Previous guilds who had trackers/pullers/officers caught using SEQ were raid suspended for 2 weeks. The second time it was just a member that was caught, the guild suffered another 2 week raid suspension.

I propose that TR/IB suffer a 2 week raid suspension, since this can be considered your first infraction, and the player in question (beyond the numerous members that were caught cheating) was your raid leader/officer.

I have never cheated playing this game. There are a lot of players on this server with integrity that have never cheated, that have always assumed that other players played by the rules and it was an even playing field. By not taking appropriate action again your guild, the developers are making a statement. That they favor one guild over the other. EQUAL punishment is absolutely necessary to make this situation right.

Rogean you have always been reasonable. You know what I'm saying is true. If you're not going to perma ban these accounts, the proper and fair thing to do is at least hand out punishment that you yourself have previously set the precedent for, which is a 2 week raid suspension if an officer/raid leader is caught using a 3rd party program to cheat during competitive raids. Show the community they matter to you and do the right thing.


We haven't accepted him back but if there is some kind of vote I would definitely support his return and probably anyone elses. I dont turn my back on my friends or guildies because they make a bad decision.

The stigma all the "outed" people will have to deal with is probably the worst part of all of it. The people on the frontlines of it all (sadly) have there name out there for all to know now. IMO that's a worse punishment than a permaban. Leaving the game in the rear view window is the easy way out. Having to face people for the next 6 months or so.. that's tough.


oh and of course... much respect

[JayDee]

Gwence will defend his friends rights to hack and exploit until his dying breath

[G13]

We haven't accepted him back but if there is some kind of vote I would definitely support his return and probably anyone elses. I dont turn my back on my friends or guildies because they make a bad decision.

This is an emotional argument. Not a rational one. I don't give a flying fuck if they "they are your friends". They are not my friends. They are not friends with the other 750+ that log in every day. Your reasoning here is meaningless.


The stigma all the "outed" people will have to deal with is probably the worst part of all of it. The people on the frontlines of it all (sadly) have there name out there for all to know now. IMO that's a worse punishment than a permaban. Leaving the game in the rear view window is the easy way out. Having to face people for the next 6 months or so.. that's tough.


oh and of course... much respect

I don't care about your stigma. Your emotion is irrelavent. I only care about cheaters receiving the proper punishment for breaking the rules. The precedent has been set. Your guild needs a 2 week raid suspension for the actions of your raid leader/officer. Period. End of story.

[Seaweedpimp]

This is an emotional argument. Not a rational one. I don't give a flying fuck if they "they are your friends". They are not my friends. They are not friends with the other 750+ that log in every day. Your reasoning here is meaningless.




I don't care about your stigma. Your emotion is irrelavent. I only care about cheaters receiving the proper punishment for breaking the rules. The precedent has been set. Your guild needs a 2 week raid suspension for the actions of your raid leader/officer. Period. End of story.

[Hasbinbad]

ITT:
http://i.imgur.com/GRxRQ.jpg

[Gwence]

This is an emotional argument. Not a rational one. I don't give a flying fuck if they "they are your friends". They are not my friends. They are not friends with the other 750+ that log in every day. Your reasoning here is meaningless.




I don't care about your stigma. Your emotion is irrelavent. I only care about cheaters receiving the proper punishment for breaking the rules. The precedent has been set. Your guild needs a 2 week raid suspension for the actions of your raid leader/officer. Period. End of story.

You have no friends so it's not surprising you're all for sending them to the gallows. Your high and mighty approach leaves alot to be desired though since you were a major piece of trash during your day, not that I ever complained about it aside from the random RnF forum back and forth topics.

It's not my stigma or emotions I am talking about, I guess you can't read well or comprehend what I said, I dont know. It's there stigma, not mine, there's. Is that clear?

Do you even play anymore?

much respect

[Quizy]

All i know is back in the day we got raid suspended for 2 weeks because tubban was caught using SEQ in lower guk..

Most of the people in these guilds are legitimate GOOD players and good people.... however the law of the land has been to punish the entire guild....We never really thought this was fair but thats how things went and it seems really unfair to not have that same kinda action take place here..

Cheers to all the legitimate hardworking players across the server.... even if you do have to suffer because of the cheating few that ruin things for them.

[Fraggle]

All i know is back in the day we got raid suspended for 2 weeks because tubban was caught using SEQ in lower guk..

Most of the people in these guilds are legitimate GOOD players and good people.... however the law of the land has been to punish the entire guild....We never really thought this was fair but thats how things went and it seems really unfair to not have that same kinda action take place here..

Cheers to all the legitimate hardworking players across the server.... even if you do have to suffer because of the cheating few that ruin things for them.

By your logic, using Tubban as an example, then all raid guilds should be suspended from raiding as per:

Why is your question specific to TR? Every single raiding guild was guilty of having players who got suspended.. why single out TR? Seems like a biased question.

We could raid suspend yes, but that would result in every raid-capable guild being suspended... in which case it would result in the players deguilding for the duration of the suspension to raid anyways.

[Juugox2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjMkqFmRGL4&feature=player_embedded enjoy

[Harrison]

The irony in G13 crying right now has me fucking rofling

[Quizy]

By your logic, using Tubban as an example, then all raid guilds should be suspended from raiding as per:

Yeah? why not ? I just think things should be linear when it comes to punishment

[aerokella]

Arent people already working on compiles that will circumvent the detection yummies?.... Ill bet everyones just gunna be right back at it again in a month.

[xshayla701]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/08/custom_1249356214076_bill-clinton.jpg

[Kevlar]

Arent people already working on compiles that will circumvent the detection yummies?.... Ill bet everyones just gunna be right back at it again in a month.

Which is why they should all be wiped and ip banned. Anyone who thinks these cheaters "learned their lesson" is a fool.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Heck g13 if you follow the line as far as punishments, wasn't IB or such there when DA got their raid suspension or no raiding for a week? And then after knowing it is against the rules and a violation and all that for the next period of months they continue to do the same exact things in order to maintain an advantage over other guilds.

It wasn't a 'poor decision' it was a willful act knowing full well what they were doing. The only rational thing to do is remove everything they received. Otherwise just wait for a new compile and they will be at it again and after a week will be 60 again, showing no effects.

[JayDee]

why did rogean take down the wipe poll

because it was a landslide in favor or wipe and punishing cheaters? no freedom of speech here eh

[mitic]

why did rogean take down the wipe poll

because it was a landslide in favor or wipe and punishing cheaters? no freedom of speech here eh

"uh, they posted a wipe thread, we should srsly consider it now!" :rolleyes:

ya know, thats the integrity that the vztz management needed back the days

[bluejam]

why did rogean take down the wipe poll

because it was a landslide in favor or wipe and punishing cheaters? no freedom of speech here eh
Yup, just delete your account and leave - let the corruption spread and infest the very roots of this server. :rolleyes:

[Swishahouse]

Heck g13 if you follow the line as far as punishments, wasn't IB or such there when DA got their raid suspension or no raiding for a week? And then after knowing it is against the rules and a violation and all that for the next period of months they continue to do the same exact things in order to maintain an advantage over other guilds.

It wasn't a 'poor decision' it was a willful act knowing full well what they were doing. The only rational thing to do is remove everything they received. Otherwise just wait for a new compile and they will be at it again and after a week will be 60 again, showing no effects.

Thanks for Shaere

[Cwall]

server should be wiped imo

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

And here is another thought. if you strip a raid guild of all their gear does that help or hinder? Meaning now there is perhaps even more (and now legitimate) reason for them to raid everything as they will need it but then again it could work as now they lost everything they gained from it and now fall behind in the race. Would you want to be in that guild then? Perhaps roll them back pre-kunark? And how do you punish everyone unless you think they all knew and benefited? Do you make a distinction between the lvl 17 druid in patchwork who used auto forage after starting here 2 months ago and the raiders who abused for the sake of getting raid targets and gaining an unfair advantage in which the end result was the majority of the server's population was affected adversely(I think you have to)? Look at what they caused in the raid scene, forum drama, and just all around hate and discontent. And what if you chalk the fact they were able to do those things possibly due to cheating? Did the raid scene mess contribute to development being slowed and did that affect the entire server population negatively or harm the project as such?

If I asked you is it more likely that people sat at their computer for 5 days refreshing track windows every 5 seconds non stop or more likely there was some kind of alert for them when named pop what would you say? They claim to mobilize faster then anyone but how do they know the instant it spawns? Is it possible for multiple people to take shifts on trackers and check periodically? Sure it is. Is it also possible for those people to have a plugin notify them of a mob spawn? And btw, have it linked to a text message system? It sure is. I wish I knew the truth because I don't see anyone refreshing track every few seconds for days on end. I find it more likely something set off an audio trigger or an alert. I only mention this because this is an example of using said cheat to gain the advantage and ensure the rest of the server gets shit. That could be griefing, or at the very least impacting our enjoyment negatively. What if they could view a map and see where the mob was positioned and know where to move the raid? What if they could see how all the mobs were pathing and know the exact open route at any instant ie when exactly to pull and from where precisely. What if you knew precisely when a mob was spawning so with 2 guilds camping it you knew exactly when to move in and gain position? Just examples of possibilities I believe have occurred here. And if it was being used to such an advantage then should they retain the loot? Should everyone lose? Should it be disseminated to others outside the guild in some form? Would it unbalance the economy and hurt the server integrity? Maybe just remove the loot they have attained post kunark then? Lot of decisions and shades to consider here with serious implications. Make them all level 1 again with no loot. Reset the toon to level 1. That should slow down raiding, no?

Maybe just do it like the NCAA does it. Probation 6 months, no raids allowed. Or 4 to be less extreme. Next month 1 raid target, next month 2, etc. Or no raids for 6 months. Heck if they go to 50 they will be 60 in a week. Maybe roll them back to level 1, salt the earth as it were. I tried to think of examples over history and salting the earth was something extreme used. Also look at Germany post World war 2 and what happened there. SMU in college football comes closer perhaps if you look at that story. No bowl games no tv games no recruiting blah blah blah and give them the death sentence because their actions specifically compromised the integrity of college football.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

And trust me, as most of you aware most guilds had people caught in some form or fashion. It wasn't just TR who had members busted but they did seem to be ones benefiting from such things here. How do you beat someone who has all these advantages? Poopsock? If you sit there for 3 days on the mobs spawn point then no matter what they have as an advantage you get the mob. Guys want an even playing field because they had the advantage that you didn't. Like a guy being in favor of more stringent drug testing when he knows what he uses is undetectable. Or that RTS player who wants a resource scarce map when they have resource cheats. Fog of war always enabled when they have the view map hack. This isn't an easy decision folks no matter what they decide but in the end it should come down to what is right, and just. I guess we shall see.

[Azzbad]

And here is another thought. if you strip a raid guild of all their gear does that help or hinder? Meaning now there is perhaps even more (and now legitimate) reason for them to raid everything as they will need it but then again it could work as now they lost everything they gained from it and now fall behind in the race. Would you want to be in that guild then? Perhaps roll them back pre-kunark? And how do you punish everyone unless you think they all knew and benefited? Do you make a distinction between the lvl 17 druid in patchwork who used auto forage after starting here 2 months ago and the raiders who abused for the sake of getting raid targets and gaining an unfair advantage in which the end result was the majority of the server's population was affected adversely(I think you have to)? Look at what they caused in the raid scene, forum drama, and just all around hate and discontent. And what if you chalk the fact they were able to do those things possibly due to cheating? Did the raid scene mess contribute to development being slowed and did that affect the entire server population negatively or harm the project as such?

If I asked you is it more likely that people sat at their computer for 5 days refreshing track windows every 5 seconds non stop or more likely there was some kind of alert for them when named pop what would you say? They claim to mobilize faster then anyone but how do they know the instant it spawns? Is it possible for multiple people to take shifts on trackers and check periodically? Sure it is. Is it also possible for those people to have a plugin notify them of a mob spawn? And btw, have it linked to a text message system? It sure is. I wish I knew the truth because I don't see anyone refreshing track every few seconds for days on end. I find it more likely something set off an audio trigger or an alert. I only mention this because this is an example of using said cheat to gain the advantage and ensure the rest of the server gets shit. That could be griefing, or at the very least impacting our enjoyment negatively. What if they could view a map and see where the mob was positioned and know where to move the raid? What if they could see how all the mobs were pathing and know the exact open route at any instant ie when exactly to pull and from where precisely. What if you knew precisely when a mob was spawning so with 2 guilds camping it you knew exactly when to move in and gain position? Just examples of possibilities I believe have occurred here. And if it was being used to such an advantage then should they retain the loot? Should everyone lose? Should it be disseminated to others outside the guild in some form? Would it unbalance the economy and hurt the server integrity? Maybe just remove the loot they have attained post kunark then? Lot of decisions and shades to consider here with serious implications. Make them all level 1 again with no loot. Reset the toon to level 1. That should slow down raiding, no?

Maybe just do it like the NCAA does it. Probation 6 months, no raids allowed. Or 4 to be less extreme. Next month 1 raid target, next month 2, etc. Or no raids for 6 months. Heck if they go to 50 they will be 60 in a week. Maybe roll them back to level 1, salt the earth as it were. I tried to think of examples over history and salting the earth was something extreme used. Also look at Germany post World war 2 and what happened there. SMU in college football comes closer perhaps if you look at that story. No bowl games no tv games no recruiting blah blah blah and give them the death sentence because their actions specifically compromised the integrity of college football.

You'd be surprised at how little meaning their trackers have for life outside EQ...these guys are still in the call off for work mode for killing EQ EMU raid bosses, lol.

[Tamiah2011]

Which TMO officer was banned for using ShowEQ

Beowulf was office was using MQ and HackEQ

Loly 2 account was using MQ and HackEQ

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

You'd be surprised at how little meaning their trackers have for life outside EQ...these guys are still in the call off for work mode for killing EQ EMU raid bosses, lol.

Perhaps. It certainly is possible to maintain uhh how many trackers for days on end. Requires a perverse sort of dedication but definitely doable. The problem is only certain people know to what extent the usage of said things were. Some people most likely were in fact just caught having it loaded from ez server but then again some of those use that as an excuse and used it to cheat on p99. Some people got hit by having others log in their toon. I guess my point was if you're using PED when you work out on your own to make you faster that is one thing. But once you enter competition any such use isn't just 'wrong' you are clearly using the same thing for the same reasons as you were before but now you added ethics and other considerations.

Relay team wins the gold medal at the olympics. Later tests positive for PEDs. Gold medals stripped from the team. Barred from competition. Do the people who paid for them to make appearances now become entitled to being compensated? Get their money back because they were victims of fraud (they weren't actually gold medalists they were cheaters) through lawsuits?

[Uthgaard]

Beowulf was office was using MQ and HackEQ

Loly 2 account was using MQ and HackEQ

I'm surprised no one has :confused: about this yet.

[Loly Taa]

I'm surprised no one has :confused: about this yet.

Tamiah = Planet = RandySlopeJr.

Essentially I just gave up, my parents always told me.

"You can't fight an idiot, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

[Shiftin]

Shaere - Zero of the TR tracking accounts were banned. Your entire argument is predicated upon us using SEQ to track mobs being the reason we get so many and in two weeks we were cleaning up and the cheater .dlls were in effect, not a single one of our shared guild tracking bots was flagged. If you want, send me a tell in game and i can log on each of them in succession, un anon them and show you that they are tracking classes of adequate level in the zones mobs spawn in. Also, none of our pullers (bards) were flagged.

I have spent around 245 actual hours on tracking bots by mine and the guild's records. I can track while playing halo, online poker (back when it was around), watching TV, etc. Make fun of me for not having a life all you want for sitting home and tracking / doing these things instead of going out to bars, but i have a family and that's how i spend my time some nights after the kiddo is in bed.

Lots of folks in our guild have quite a few tracking hours. Having a guild with US, Euro and australian players + rewarding members for tracking is how we have such good tracking, despite what you continue to claim. I'm sorry you find this hard to believe, but it is the truth and supported by the evidence from the bannings.

[MelxDruid]

Planet from Severed Fennin ro? Rofl

I think anyone from Severed clearly remembers his lies.

[Friday]

In all seriousness,

Tracking was a burden shared by a lot of TR members. Flame if you want but it was legitimate. You could always get good guild chat during mob windows, at any time of the day, because people were sitting on tracking mobs multi-tasking between tracking / irl.

[Anger]

I'm surprised no one has :confused: about this yet.

Uth....you were there man. You know Nilbog pulled some favoritism bullshit. Theres really no other explanation for what happened. If this was supposed to be some "example" back in the day, then the same rules should be enforced EVERY time, not just when the GM's are on the rag and need a guild to take it out on.

This shit isnt tinfoil hat crap anymore. It's very obvious. DA/TMO has always been the scapegoat of the server.

[Mezzmur]

In all seriousness,

Tracking was a burden shared by a lot of TR members. Flame if you want but it was legitimate. You could always get good guild chat during mob windows, at any time of the day, because people were sitting on tracking mobs multi-tasking between tracking / irl.

I agree with Friday, I think tracking sucks and it's a burden for everyone.

Some people stand as close as they can to a spawn point, set and audio trigger and pray. Unless you know the coords, this can be completely unreliable. Other people spam track. I sat in EJ for 7 hours the other day hitting track every 30s to a minute. There's no doubt that there were gaps where I forgot, but that's how we get announcements out within a few seconds of a pop. Someone has to do it...

[EkireiTheNecro]

God DAMN....people STILL arguing about this shit?

[Lazortag]

I agree with Friday, I think tracking sucks and it's a burden for everyone.

Some people stand as close as they can to a spawn point, set and audio trigger and pray. Unless you know the coords, this can be completely unreliable. Other people spam track. I sat in EJ for 7 hours the other day hitting track every 30s to a minute. There's no doubt that there were gaps where I forgot, but that's how we get announcements out within a few seconds of a pop. Someone has to do it...

I dunno if this has been mentioned, but I think the problem is that no one had to do this in classic. The variance was not so massive that people had to waste so much of their lives just tracking shit. This is the primary reason why most raid targets on this server are inaccessible to guilds other than the top two, outside of server repops.

[Rais]

Originally Posted by Tamiah2011
Beowulf was office was using MQ and HackEQ

Loly 2 account was using MQ and HackEQ

I'm surprised no one has :confused: about this yet.

Is this true?

[Lazortag]

I think Uth is commenting on Tamiah accusing people of using "HackEQ" which to my knowledge is a made up program.

[Anger]

I dunno if this has been mentioned, but I think the problem is that no one had to do this in classic. The variance was not so massive that people had to waste so much of their lives just tracking shit. This is the primary reason why most raid targets on this server are inaccessible to guilds other than the top two, outside of server repops.

I think you are remembering it wrong. Big guilds ALWAYS had to track targets if they wanted to beat the competition. Poopsocking isn't something created by P99 either, lol.

[Loly Taa]

Is this true?

No, it's not true- in fact anyone who knows me, knew i had one account, one character that was not level 1, and that character is Loly.

[Lazortag]

I think you are remembering it wrong. Big guilds ALWAYS had to track targets if they wanted to beat the competition. Poopsocking isn't something created by P99 either, lol.

My point is that they didn't have to track as much as they do here; please actually read my post. There were no 4-day variances in classic.

[Anger]

My point is that they didn't have to track as much as they do here; please actually read my post. There were no 4-day variances in classic.

I read it brew.

And the reason there werent variances is because they had scheduled patch/maintenance days that repopped all raid targets every week.

[Rais]

Yea I had no idea of a hackeq from the years I've played. I do know Tamiah2011 is totally enraged at TMO and says anything and everything.

[Lazortag]

I read it brew.

And the reason there werent variances is because they had scheduled patch/maintenance days that repopped all raid targets every week.

They didn't happen every week; see this page: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php. Live had roughly 2.18 patches every month. It wasn't a weekly scheduled thing; it was something that happened fairly randomly, so sometimes you'd get two patches within a week, and sometimes you'd only get one in an entire month. Moreover, the reason why there were no variances is of no consequence - the point is that in classic EQ, no mobs had four day windows and no one had to waste their lives sitting on a tracker for an average of 48 hours a week per raid mob.

[Lazortag]

Also, we do have patch day repops here sometimes, though not as often as Live. They're also really fun. Just throwing that out there.

[Morlaeth]

Shaere - Zero of the TR tracking accounts were banned. Your entire argument is predicated upon us using SEQ to track mobs being the reason we get so many and in two weeks we were cleaning up and the cheater .dlls were in effect, not a single one of our shared guild tracking bots was flagged. If you want, send me a tell in game and i can log on each of them in succession, un anon them and show you that they are tracking classes of adequate level in the zones mobs spawn in. Also, none of our pullers (bards) were flagged.

I have spent around 245 actual hours on tracking bots by mine and the guild's records. I can track while playing halo, online poker (back when it was around), watching TV, etc. Make fun of me for not having a life all you want for sitting home and tracking / doing these things instead of going out to bars, but i have a family and that's how i spend my time some nights after the kiddo is in bed.

Lots of folks in our guild have quite a few tracking hours. Having a guild with US, Euro and australian players + rewarding members for tracking is how we have such good tracking, despite what you continue to claim. I'm sorry you find this hard to believe, but it is the truth and supported by the evidence from the bannings.

I support this message.

[Pico]

tr is a wart upon the otherwise still pretty ugly face of p99

[johnny ringo]

Tamiah = Planet = RandySlopeJr.

Essentially I just gave up, my parents always told me.

"You can't fight an idiot, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

and then you dropped out of high school to become a professional EQ player.

they must be very proud

[Hasbinbad]

tr is a wart upon the otherwise still pretty ugly face of p99
It's skin cancer, not a wart.

[Wiz]

Wrong.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I left live for this place because I was tired of how the hackers and multiboxers ran rampant. I actually believed the server rules when I signed up that all of these asshats would get an irrevokable ip ban.

Some of us just don't want to play with cheaters. period.


I aggree with this i only started playing here cause i thought it was a small cummunity and it is and the gms seemed to enforce the law well uthgaard did..
But im not gonna waste anymore time playing when this server is CLEARLY CORRUPT FROM THE HIGHEST POSITION DOWN.

[Quizy]

tr is a wart upon the otherwise still pretty ugly face of p99

it's retarded to just point a finger at TR.. jelly ?

[Slathar]

In the name of Jesus Christ, wipe it clean. It's unholy and I rebuke it.

[Wiz]

I agree with Friday, I think tracking sucks and it's a burden for everyone.

Some people stand as close as they can to a spawn point, set and audio trigger and pray. Unless you know the coords, this can be completely unreliable. Other people spam track. I sat in EJ for 7 hours the other day hitting track every 30s to a minute. There's no doubt that there were gaps where I forgot, but that's how we get announcements out within a few seconds of a pop. Someone has to do it...

I dont listen to known cheaters sorry Mezzmur quicker to just skip over ur dripple

[Pico]

not sure about retarded but u can buy wart jelly at any drugstore hth

[Foxx]

pvp could fix this

[Koota]

Sorry im late

[Waffen]

pvp could fix this

nope. please insert coin and try again.

[Asher]

Also, we do have patch day repops here sometimes, though not as often as Live. They're also really fun. Just throwing that out there.

I think this is a great idea and I have been having a lot of fun on the recent repop days.

Asher

[Metallikus]

They didn't happen every week; see this page: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php. Live had roughly 2.18 patches every month. It wasn't a weekly scheduled thing; it was something that happened fairly randomly, so sometimes you'd get two patches within a week, and sometimes you'd only get one in an entire month. Moreover, the reason why there were no variances is of no consequence - the point is that in classic EQ, no mobs had four day windows and no one had to waste their lives sitting on a tracker for an average of 48 hours a week per raid mob.

nobody has to do it here either.

[Enygma]

By your logic, using Tubban as an example, then all raid guilds should be suspended from raiding as per:

Tubban was using MQ2 in LGuk while Dark Ascension were camping in Naggy's lair.. there was a dispute between DA and TR about who had 15 players on the spawn first. IT was found that Tubban was using MQ2 during this investigation. Tubban had nothing to do with the raid force in Nagafen's lair, nor did he provide DA any advantage as he never had anything to do with strategizing or other instruction, he showed up he played when he did.... All I really remember him raiding was sky but meh, that's beside the point.

The reason Dark Ascension was issued a second raid suspension due to Tubban using MQ2 was this: It was Dark Ascension's second offence of using third party programs within the guild in a span of 2 weeks. Koota had been caught two (2) weeks prior and Dark Ascension was raid suspended. When the GM's found Tubban cheating they said DA was "harboring cheaters". Nilbog came on to tell Durison that DA needed better recruiting standards and it was the fault of the guild again.

As a result Dark Ascension created a recruitment guild called Shadow Rising to appease the GM's. This guild consisted of recruits and alternate characters. Only main characters were allowed into Dark Ascension.

In essence, I believe the second raid suspension would not have been handed out had Dark Ascension not just been suspended from raiding for Koota's infraction. As per the reasoning provided.

A third suspension was also threatened when Dark Ascension beat TR on Dojorn in SKy and new rules were created on the spot about 15 on the spawn point for a NON-KOS mob. (THis point has been dealt with in a separate thread and has nothing to do with cheating but thought it was an interesting point).

During DA's raid suspension the first time, TR got a clean sweap of everything. When DA returned to raiding the next week, they got a clean sweap of everything. When DA was suspended on Tubban's infraction, TR got another clean sweap. TR was going through a rough patch and was having difficulty competing with DA at this time. A lot of their veteran member's had grown bored and people like Gwence/Alfie were getting banned for training.

There is a clear pattern here but I'll leave it to you to make your own conclusions.

Sworen

[Enygma]

Also, none of our pullers (bards) were flagged.


um... Stefan?

Sworen

[Thatguy05]

Tubban was using MQ2 in LGuk while Dark Ascension were camping in Naggy's lair.. there was a dispute between DA and TR about who had 15 players on the spawn first. IT was found that Tubban was using MQ2 during this investigation. Tubban had nothing to do with the raid force in Nagafen's lair, nor did he provide DA any advantage as he never had anything to do with strategizing or other instruction, he showed up he played when he did.... All I really remember him raiding was sky but meh, that's beside the point.

The reason Dark Ascension was issued a second raid suspension due to Tubban using MQ2 was this: It was Dark Ascension's second offence of using third party programs within the guild in a span of 2 weeks. Koota had been caught two (2) weeks prior and Dark Ascension was raid suspended. When the GM's found Tubban cheating they said DA was "harboring cheaters". Nilbog came on to tell Durison that DA needed better recruiting standards and it was the fault of the guild again.

As a result Dark Ascension created a recruitment guild called Shadow Rising to appease the GM's. This guild consisted of recruits and alternate characters. Only main characters were allowed into Dark Ascension.

In essence, I believe the second raid suspension would not have been handed out had Dark Ascension not just been suspended from raiding for Koota's infraction. As per the reasoning provided.

A third suspension was also threatened when Dark Ascension beat TR on Dojorn in SKy and new rules were created on the spot about 15 on the spawn point for a NON-KOS mob. (THis point has been dealt with in a separate thread and has nothing to do with cheating but thought it was an interesting point).

During DA's raid suspension the first time, TR got a clean sweap of everything. When DA returned to raiding the next week, they got a clean sweap of everything. When DA was suspended on Tubban's infraction, TR got another clean sweap. TR was going through a rough patch and was having difficulty competing with DA at this time. A lot of their veteran member's had grown bored and people like Gwence/Alfie were getting banned for training.

There is a clear pattern here but I'll leave it to you to make your own conclusions.

Sworen


Its called favoritsm and their sandbox, most likely goblin and whoever else ( xz a former dev ) is in the said guild getting less to no punishment for the same flaws thats happened to other guilds in the past

[Shiftin]

um... Stefan?

Sworen

Stefen has not been a member of TR since April 30th. Please quit getting your information from tiggles and loly.

[mitic]

hi sworen bro

[G13]

You have no friends so it's not surprising you're all for sending them to the gallows. Your high and mighty approach leaves alot to be desired though since you were a major piece of trash during your day, not that I ever complained about it aside from the random RnF forum back and forth topics.

This is pure emotion, obfuscation, and hyperbole. Again, I don't care about your feelings or your friends. Your raid leader/officer cheated during a competitive raid. He broke the rules. You are defending him "because he is your friend". We are not in high school anymore. This is not a popularity contest. Server rules are not put in place to cater to how Gwence feels.

If an officer/tracker/raid leader uses ShowEQ during competitive raid encounters, their guild should suffer the same punishment. These are the rules and the precedent for this punishment has been set prior by Rogean. What I want to know is why is Rogean not abiding by his own rules and raid suspending your guild for a minimum of 2 weeks. Rogean the community demands an explanation for this obvious double standard.

If TMO officer accounts have been caught by this "hack sweep", then make that information public and inflict the same punishment on them. If you have direct evidence against TMO officers proving they cheat beyond an accusation, then provide that information. Perun admitted his guilt. It's beyond refute.

You're also assuming I'm defending TMO here, which is not the case. Based on the evidence that has been presented though, TMO officers are completely innocent and have been vindicated. TMO officers are playing by the rules. TR/IB is not. So why don't you give me a good reason why your guild shouldn't be raid suspended for at least 2 weeks beyond the flimsy excuse that they "are your friends".

It's not my stigma or emotions I am talking about, I guess you can't read well or comprehend what I said, I dont know. It's there stigma, not mine, there's. Is that clear?

This entire discussion between us has been about how Gwence feels. Not reality. Gwence doesn't abandon his pals, so his pals should be allowed to cheat is basically what you've been saying behind the insults. Because Gwence "feels" a certain way, we're all supposed to just suck it up and allow P99 to be a corrupted box filled with cheaters or something. All the time and effort people have put into their characters, which is considerable, is not as important as Gwence's feelings. The last time I checked, the server doesn't revolve around the way TR/IB membership feels.

Or does it Rogean? I would like a clarification please.

Rogean you know what you need to do. Do the right thing and take the appropriate action.

Your feelings are irrelavent Gwence. You're more concerned about the reputation of hackers and cheaters than you are of the overall health and integrity of the server. Every IB/TR member apparently shares your view which is a sad narrative on how low your guild has sunk. I've yet to see an IB/TR member speak out against your leadership's corruption. Not one.

As long as you stand to gain from your guildmates cheating, you excuse/rationalize it. This is why this server is the way it is. Children like you are running the asylum, and now apparently Rogean has just handed you the keys by allowing this to stand. Uthgaard was the only mechanism left in place that gave this server any credibility/impartiality.

It's sad to see how low the server has sunk. You have people openly defending and excusing cheaters on the forums. When P99 was first created, it was done so with promises that this behavior would not be tolerated under any circumstances. That it would be a fair and level playing field here, since most EMUs are corrupt boxes filled with hackers and cheaters. It's possible that they ran this secret hack sniffing under the impression they would find different results. What we've been witnessing is damage control to keep the server at the status quo potentially. I don't really see any other possible explanation for the blatant double standard and coddling TR/IB is being given here after their officers have been caught cheating.

If you're not going to ban these accounts permanently or wipe the server clean, than wipe those accounts clean, including their characters. Raid suspend the guilds whose officers were caught using exploits during competitive raids. This goes for all guilds whose officers have been found guilty. If an officer is caught again, disband the guild permanently. That's the only way this server will ever gain it's reputation back again beyond just another corrupted box.

[mitic]

srsly, you dont need to cheat eq endgame. the only thing you need is to be first at target, and thats TRs strenght

[Skope]

Bronson, it was a bit backwards from the beginning, but i disagree with on some points.

To justify a guild-wide punishment you need to show proof that it was done with the entire guild there and they benefited in a competitive scenario against another guild. Like when koota was hacking, for example. He tracked via SEQ, uthgaard set up a sting operation (i think it was uth?) and the guild benefited. A 2 week raid suspension is understandable considering the circumstances. When one of their members got caught MQing in lguk, though, didn't warrant a guild-wide raid suspension because the guild didn't benefit.

The same should apply here. Perun was caught SEQing in a raid scenario where his guild benefited and thus they deserve a 2 week suspension.

What should be taken into account, though, is that if Durison got nicked for training the rules should apply here as well, but the punishment not as harsh. Training another guild at a raid means your guild benefits and i think would consequently justify a guild-wide raid suspension, but certainly not for 2 weeks.

When a guild member cheats via SEQ/MQ they should be permabanned, no questions asked. If that guild benefited from those cheats then they too get a raid suspension. But if a member cheats, trains, dupes for his own benefit then i can't see why an entire guild would be punished, nevermind every single raiding guild on the server.

[Fists]

srsly, you dont need to cheat eq endgame. the only thing you need is to be first at target, and thats TRs strenght

This is hilarious. If you guys are so strong bro, why aren't you getting any merbs. TR/IB is yet again, on the decline.

Also, some food for thought. You say you have 13 accounts suspended, most of which being doubles; then why do you guys only have 19-20 people showing up for each mob since the suspension? Labor day weekend eh?

[mitic]

This is hilarious. If you guys are so strong bro, why aren't you getting any merbs.

are you playing on P99 ?

i dont know whos suspended and i dont give a fuck since in every guild suspensions happened

[JenJen]

ive got an idea

stop posting in this bullshit thread!

[karsten]

This is hilarious. If you guys are so strong bro, why aren't you getting any merbs. TR/IB is yet again, on the decline.

in the last four day, these are the mobs that TR has killed:

Trakanon
Venril Sathir
Talendor
Severilous
Inny
Vox
Nagafen

tmo got:
draco/ct
1x trak
gore
sky stuff, not sure what

Bregan D'aerth got:
Faydedar

nice work bros!


Big Karsten, the truthiest poster on RnF!
oh, and I would you folks to please watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Daltheb#p/u/0/0T6y4efp9Eg

this is 17 minutes of fun and frolicking in PoH together with TMO!

[JenJen]

daltheb is subscribed to minxy

[druziil]

TMO officers are playing by the rules.


Anyone else lol @ this?

[Alarti0001]

in the last four day, these are the mobs that TR has killed:

Trakanon
Venril Sathir
Talendor
Severilous
Inny
Vox
Nagafen

tmo got:
draco/ct
1x trak
gore
sky stuff, not sure what

Bregan D'aerth got:
Faydedar

nice work bros!


Big Karsten, the truthiest poster on RnF!
oh, and I would you folks to please watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Daltheb#p/u/0/0T6y4efp9Eg

this is 17 minutes of fun and frolicking in PoH together with TMO!

Noble Dojorn
Overseer of Air
Hand of Veeshan
Eye of Veeshan
Draco x2

[Alarti0001]

Anyone else lol @ this?

All of our unsuspended officers did. -)

[Gwence]

Im not defending cheating, Im saying they have been punished now it's time to move on, you want to crucify people in TR because you are bitter. I dont see you speaking out against the other 364 people that got suspended, just Perun, because you're bitter.

You say you don't care about emotions but your entire crusade is based on them.

[Gwence]

uncontested sky mobs congrats george clooney

[Alarti0001]

uncontested sky mobs congrats george clooney

Nagafen, vox, congrats ?

[Twopair]

You.... Guys.... Take.... This.... Game.... Way.... Too.... Seriously....

[Ektar]

oh, and I would you folks to please watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Daltheb#p/u/0/0T6y4efp9Eg

this is 17 minutes of fun and frolicking in PoH together with TMO!

check out this link then go to his subscriptions and click on misshanna. She talks about something or other with the camera mostly focused on her chest. Worth it to check out imo.

[Twopair]

check out this link then go to his subscriptions and click on misshanna. She talks about something or other with the camera mostly focused on her chest. Worth it to check out imo.

She is beyond annoying, and is da chubs.

[Ektar]

you're doing it wrong.

turn off sound. watch only boobies.

[Fraggle]

wall of text

TLDR

You're a big cry baby and a terrible player. First, remove yourself from Durison's laughably small penis. Second, hang yourself like you should have done when your guild was raid suspended so many times for being so damn terrible.

[Ennoia]

You.... Guys.... Take.... This.... Game.... Way.... Too.... Seriously....

They all need a Saevrok-sized train.

[Twopair]

They all need a Saevrok-sized train.

They just need to go outside and live a little.
Bragging about mobs is best virgin-detector.
The buttonman himself would make kids cry.

[G13]

What should be taken into account, though, is that if Durison got nicked for training the rules should apply here as well, but the punishment not as harsh. Training another guild at a raid means your guild benefits and i think would consequently justify a guild-wide raid suspension, but certainly not for 2 weeks.

When a guild member cheats via SEQ/MQ they should be permabanned, no questions asked. If that guild benefited from those cheats then they too get a raid suspension. But if a member cheats, trains, dupes for his own benefit then i can't see why an entire guild would be punished, nevermind every single raiding guild on the server.

I have no disagreement with you. I've actually commented on these specific points in a different thread. Using SEQ is an entirely different situation than aggroing mobs on a raid and training. Gwence was suspended on his monk for doing this in fear. Hell, Trystich did it to Daltheb on a draco raid. He had it recorded on FRAPS.

Nobody asked that they be raid suspended for those offenses. Appropriate actions were taken against the accounts. In this situation though we have precedent that has already been established by Rogean and Nilbog. If an officer/tracker/raid leader, ie someone in a position of leadership with a guild is caught hacking, the entire guild suffers as a result.

A minimum punishment for Perun using ShowEQ on competitive raids should a 2 week raid suspension for TR/IB. Period.

[Ektar]

guys don't you remember that it was proven that perun is a dev? perun is a dev is uthgaard is rogean. rogean does not punish rogean.

case closed.

[Skope]

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VS9oNBJEtNU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Seaweedpimp]

srsly, you dont need to cheat eq endgame. the only thing you need is to be first at target, and thats TRs strenght

lmfao

[G13]

Im not defending cheating (<--yes you are), Im saying they have been punished now it's time to move on, you want to crucify people in TR because you are bitter. I dont see you speaking out against the other 364 people that got suspended, just Perun, because you're bitter.

You say you don't care about emotions but your entire crusade is based on them.

You have zero credibility. All you are doing is "defending your friends" for cheating. I play on P99 because I enjoy the game of Everquest. We all play here because of our love for the game. This server is supposed to be a haven for players who want to re-live the classic experience. The end game drama is irrelevant. It does not define the game for the people who log in every night and play by the rules. IB used to be a guild that defined itself based on skill. Now it's been reduced to trying to rationalize cheating, just so they can get their friends back and the status quo is maintained.

The other 364 people that got banned were not officers/raid leaders/people in positions of leadership in one of the top 2 raiding guilds on the server that control the end game. TR/IB is in the unique situation/position of being the only guild, besides Peace Pipe, to have leadership caught using 3rd party hacks. The other top tier raiding guild's officer core were not caught cheating/using 3rd party hacks during competitive raids.

Was anyone in Divinity even suspended? Not that I'm aware of, though I'm sure it's possible. There is a larger issue with the server here that people aren't addressing. Neither are Rogean and Nilbog, and that is people are willing to do anything, even cheat and use 3rd party hacks, to kill pixels and boost their egos. At what point does development draw the line? Why even have rules if they aren't going to be properly enforced.

Has the server been reduced to constantly reacting to how TR/IB feels about a situation now? Is that what P99 has become? You might as well rename the server Project TR/IB and call it a day. The rest of us are just guests in TR/IBs sandbox, where TR/IB define what the rules and punishments are for everyone else but themselves because Xzerion knows how to code. I mean you're openly defending your pals hacking. Kinsawt and Xzerion stated the cheaters can re-app. We both know that Perun isn't going anywhere and will be plvled back up to 60 and given money from TR's stash the second his account is released.

I'll state my opinion on what the proper punishment should be one last time. All 365 accounts should be banned permanently, or at the very least every character deleted off the accounts. Any raid guild whose officers/raid leaders/leadership are caught using 3rd party hacks suffer the following penalties:

1) First offense - 2 week raid suspension. This should be leveled against TR/IB immediately for Perun using a 3rd party hack during a competitive raid.

2) Second offense - Permanent disbanding of the guild. All officer accounts permanently banned. Officer IPs banned from every setting foot on the server again.

No exceptions. This server is only as good as the community allows it to be. If proper action isn't taken against the guild whose officers were caught using 3rd party hacks, I believe that all the other guilds whose officers have been vindicated should protest. Divinity, Taken, BDA, TMO, Reclamation, Mischief officer core should be outraged that TR/IB hasn't been raid suspended yet.

Rogean if you want the server to police itself, you should allow the community that didn't cheat define what the proper punishment should be for those that did. It's the right thing to do. Take the proper action that benefits the community and the overall health/integrity of the server and do what's right.

[Hasbinbad]

TEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTE XTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXT TEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTE XTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTbut y u mad tho?

[Ektar]

your lack of spacebar usage has stretched the screen and I can't see your signature properly.

You are ruining my immersion.

[Motec]

Since p1999 is just TR's playground, you might as well all quit so lord Ektar may rule over the lands proper.

[Slathar]

WIPE IT CLEAN

JIHAD!

[Hasbinbad]

Since p1999 is just TR's playground, you might as well all quit so lord Ektar may rule over the lands proper.