Rant and Flames...

[Kruel]

I move that we take down R&F. So far we have lost two devoted DEVs. I personally believe this is because of R&F section of the forum. People can post there own rants on there own guild web page. Lets take this down and get more moderators here. We are hurting our development of the server.

[Tyen01]

fat


I'd just like to say, turning off one of your most popular subforums is a retard idea.

Whoever shuts down something like that obviously doesn't know what they are trying to accomplish.

[G13]

Yes we must all believe everything Xzerion and TR/IB tells us

You are not allowed to disagree

[Ring]

I'm from Canada. We value our freedom of speech in my country.

I think you'll find that if we remove RnF, the regulars there will not stop posting but merely move to other forums (like server chat). A lot more regular players read server chat than they do RnF, their trolling will reach more people.

[Ring]

Pals, let's get RnF fixed.

Here's my bug thread: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=389001

[nalkin]

I think a better idea is to not have any more devs that are also players, especially ones that are in one of the lead guilds/a guild leader. Its practically impossible to not cheat since you have info on how zones will work... are you just supposed to magically block it out of your head when your guild goes to raid?

[Rogean]

R&F is closed for the night. It will reopen tomorrow. If people continue to slander the current developers, it will be closed again. The staff members currently on the team have done nothing to deserve this onslaught of disrespect based on selectively leaked information on internal disagreements. Any claims of corruption stopped when those they accused resigned from the team, regardless of truthfulness or not.

[Humerox]

It won't stay there. Better to lock the forums completely and get a couple of people to clean up the mess.

[Razdeline]

fat


I'd just like to say, turning off one of your most popular subforums is a retard idea.

Whoever shuts down something like that obviously doesn't know what they are trying to accomplish.

That much retardation in a forum needs to be stopped. Its like a Pustulating wound.

[Versus]

You guys need to step the fuck away from the computer and remember these are *people* you are fucking with.

[Amelinda]

You guys need to step the fuck away from the computer and remember these are *people* you are fucking with.

[Doors]

I'd just like to say that if you closed RnF down that all the retardation that takes place there is going to end up in other forum sections regardless of how many bans fly because of it.

No reason to take it down really.

[Razdeline]

I'd just like to say that if you closed RnF down that all the retardation that takes place there is going to end up in other forum sections regardless of how many bans fly because of it.

No reason to take it down really.

Then those people will simply get their forum privileges taken away. Simple as that. Would be harsh in the beginning, but in the end all the idiots would be weeded out.

[Doors]

RnF filters the garbage. It's necessary. If people don't wanna read it they can opt out. Rogean shut it down because nerds keep going in there and accusing devs of shit with zero evidence.

[Razdeline]

You would *think* people could harbor a level of integrity/discipline/maturity being that this is a 10+ year old game, and should have an older- more mature player base.

But nope.

There is a difference between having a mature, intelligent rant than openly attacking people 24/7.

People are abusing internet anonymity. That is not right. Take away R/F until people learn to act more civilized.

[Tumdumm]

cant keep rnf away forever
but can def ban

ps in typing this thing i see why people put 'def'... the whole word is way hard to spell & spell check should know that

[Nineran]

Just wanted to say props to the GMs/Devs on shutting R&F down. Keep it that way forever if needed. Good call guys and gals!

[Envious]

I guess people dont understand how serious EQ really is...

[xshayla701]

LOL I got a batphone saying Rogean went crazy, I'm really sorry I missed it tbh.

[Malrubius]

I move that we take down R&F. So far we have lost two devoted DEVs. I personally believe this is because of R&F section of the forum. People can post there own rants on there own guild web page. Lets take this down and get more moderators here. We are hurting our development of the server.

I'd love to see that happen permanently. The forums are often the first (and then the last) thing that people ever read about P1999.

[Spud]

Just a thought...

Make Rants and Flames a section where threads which have turned into arguments/shit are relegated to. You can't make new threads in Rants and Flames but you can still post replies to threads which have been moved there.

[Cujoy]

Then you force one of the mods to be more of a forum janitor than they already have to.

[Barkingturtle]

R&F is closed for the night. It will reopen tomorrow. If people continue to slander the current developers, it will be closed again. The staff members currently on the team have done nothing to deserve this onslaught of disrespect based on selectively leaked information on internal disagreements. Any claims of corruption stopped when those they accused resigned from the team, regardless of truthfulness or not.

Um, silencing your critics does nothing to reduce the perception of corruption hanging over this board and server. It does quite the opposite, in fact.

And it's RnF; it's a joke. It's supposed to be taken with a huge grain of salt. It's humor, it's spin and it's all utterly meaningless unless you lend it relevance by doing something like this.

You would have been better off countering any unfounded allegations with humorous, absurd allegations of your own. Because RnF is a game; it's not real, guys. Instead you lock the whole forum? That just feels like a cover-up. Like you just want this whole thing to blow over while you plug your ears and sing, "I can't hear you."

I understand being worried that readers will take RnF as gospel, because honestly this server is home to some of the most insidiously stupid people I have ever met. To people like me, though, who have used an internet message board before and are trying to decide if they want to continue to trust you and your associates and thus continue to play on your server, well, it's not a positive thing. It makes me feel like you feel like you've got something to hide. It makes me feel like you're overreacting to obvious trolls because they are too close to the truth.

Trouble is, there's no way you can prove otherwise, now. I for one will always have my doubts as to the integrity of this server, lame as that entire phrase is to utter in every way. Things have been handled very, very poorly around here over the past week. On one hand, you capitulate to the hackers because, well, that's the question, isn't it? On the other hand, you close a sub-section of the board because people are saying mean things. Weird priorities. Suspect priorities. Later dudes.

[booter]

Every point that people feel they "need" to make in RnF can be made in Server Chat. You just have to act like the 20-30somethings you are, use fewer racial slurs, and actually make valid points with evidence.

[mitic]

R&F is closed for the night. It will reopen tomorrow. If people continue to slander the current developers, it will be closed again. The staff members currently on the team have done nothing to deserve this onslaught of disrespect based on selectively leaked information on internal disagreements. Any claims of corruption stopped when those they accused resigned from the team, regardless of truthfulness or not.

just reopen it and it if it gets out of hand again, just delay velious and p99 for another half year, u gota fight them trolls with their own weaps

[Barkingturtle]

Every point that people feel they "need" to make in RnF can be made in Server Chat. You just have to act like the 20-30somethings you are, use fewer racial slurs, and actually make valid points with evidence.

RnF isn't for making points. That's the whole point! It's a word-game. It's sarcastic. It's mean and nasty and fun. It's inside poop and dick jokes. It has been that way since the internet was born. What it never is: worth taking seriously.

How have so few of you learned that over the years? I don't get it. You folks have used message boards before P99, yes?

[booter]

RnF isn't for making points. That's the whole point! It's a word-game. It's sarcastic. It's mean and nasty and fun. It's inside poop and dick jokes. It has been that way since the internet was born. What it never is: worth taking seriously.

How have so few of you learned that over the years? I don't get it. You folks have used message boards before P99, yes?

I don't personally take RnF seriously, but it was the major cause of this community losing two devs. Not worth it.

I was around on the very first day of the server and active on these boards a little before that. They were fine before we had an RnF section and they'd be fine (probably better) if we got rid of it.

So if your "fun and games" forum is worth losing real developers, delaying content... well I guess we just don't share the same priorities.

[Barkingturtle]

I don't personally take RnF seriously, but it was the major cause of this community losing two devs. Not worth it.


Haha, no.

That's like blaming Woodward and Bernstein for Nixon's resignation. If Woodward and Bernstein wrote for The Onion.

And you can tell by my join date I've been around here for a while, too. I don't doubt that this board would be fine without RnF, but I do doubt the entertainment value of a world without rants and flames. I mean, legitimate questions and comments, silly anecdotes and official announcements are great and all, but they suck for passing the time at work.

[booter]

That's what reddit is for.

[Ektar]

RnF isn't for making points. That's the whole point! It's a word-game. It's sarcastic. It's mean and nasty and fun. It's inside poop and dick jokes. It has been that way since the internet was born. What it never is: worth taking seriously.

How have so few of you learned that over the years? I don't get it. You folks have used message boards before P99, yes?

it's nice that you think so. I, too, do the whole rnf thang for saying silly things and not taking anything seriously. But the problem is not everyone does! Just because some people "do it wrong" doesn't mean their impact can or should be ignored.

For example, an open inquisition by "exdev 1" against "exdev 2" was not for shits n giggles. Can you honestly say that, because he merely posted it in rnf, it can or should be ignored? like lol it's in rnf so it's not real. Unfortunately this is not the case.

[Malrubius]

...worth losing real developers, delaying content...

...and, I would add, a lower player population. There are players (probably a lot of them) from back in the day, who hear about P1999, visit the home page, see the recent threads, say "wtf, I'm not 12", and never return.

Getting rid of R&F, putting in some at least semi-mature forum rules, and putting in some real penalties for breaking those rules - would reap huge benefits in the long run. imho.

[Barkingturtle]

For example, an open inquisition by "exdev 1" against "exdev 2" was not for shits n giggles. Can you honestly say that, because he merely posted it in rnf, it can or should be ignored? like lol it's in rnf so it's not real. Unfortunately this is not the case.

So if it was posted in server chat we'd be having this conversation in RnF right now, yeah?

I don't know. It disturbs me, though, to see RnF painted as the insubordinate in this scenario, when RnF did nothing to anyone. Honestly, stifling the dissenters is to me more damning than anything anyone has ever posted in RnF or anywhere. Because dudes, actions really do speak louder than words.

Or we could just ban words, maybe. That would probably solve everything.

[Kruel]

wow this conversation is actually going good. We all love this game, and i think we can all agree all this talking in R&F has been digging us into a hole.

[Hagglebaron]

RnF is there for a reason, and the option to opt out is present. I don't see the problem people have with it, if you don't like whats going on in there don't look.

[Barkingturtle]

There are players (probably a lot of them) from back in the day, who hear about P1999, visit the home page, see the recent threads, say "wtf, I'm not 12", and never return.


That's the emu community.

This has been my first foray into EQemu, and I have been seriously disappointed. I expected to play this game with the people I played with back in 1999. Back then, the average player was in his or her thirties. Back then.

This server? Average age is 20-25, maybe younger, and it's compounded by the fact that it's free and there's this inarticulate, racist, homophobic EQemu PvP Borg shitting up the joint.

I never claimed that this place's RnF was of even adequate quality, but I think that's more a result of the community than the concept. I mean, this isn't the only message board on the interwebs, and P99's isn't the only RnF section, but it's definitely tough to read most of the threads. In conclusion, I mostly blame PvP, youth and Twitter.

[druziil]

RnF has not been used the way it was ment to be in the last several weeks. People are using it as a soapbox and exploiting the ruleless nature of it to inflame the community over grossley exaggerated issues regarding GM/Staff desicions. If the posted rules about not questioning GM/Staff desicions were enforced more appropriately I could get back to telling people that TMO is full of bad players and that tiggles ia fat.

There is a place for legitimate discussions regarding server issues. It's called server chat. Make valid points in a reasonable way and good things happen.

[Dirtnap]

That's the emu community.

This has been my first foray into EQemu, and I have been seriously disappointed. I expected to play this game with the people I played with back in 1999. Back then, the average player was in his or her thirties. Back then.

This server? Average age is 20-25, maybe younger, and it's compounded by the fact that it's free and there's this inarticulate, racist, homophobic EQemu PvP Borg shitting up the joint.

I never claimed that this place's RnF was of even adequate quality, but I think that's more a result of the community than the concept. I mean, this isn't the only message board on the interwebs, and P99's isn't the only RnF section, but it's definitely tough to read most of the threads. In conclusion, I mostly blame PvP, youth and Twitter.

Sadly this server is packed full of all the people who were 8-13 years old when EQ came out. So when they log in, their nostalgia makes them that age once again.

[Ektar]

I was 12 when I played eq.

DON'T BE HATIN

[Barkingturtle]

I was 12 when I played eq.

DON'T BE HATIN

Really?

I find it unfathomable that people paid fifteen bucks a month back in the age of AOL for their twelve year-old kids to play an online video game.

I guess I just don't remember anyone being that young, either. Most of my guildies were at least a decade older than me, and I was 19 in 1999. The sub-based model was a real barrier of entry back then. It was my own money, and I had a hard time justifying it even though I had been searching for an MMORPG without knowing what it was. No one I played with lived at home with their parents, even.

Did your parents play? That's really the only feasible scenario I can see wherein a twelve year-old is playing EQ in 1999. Is that what this server is comprised of? The forgotten children of EverQuest addicts?

What have we done?

[Rais]

Rants and Flames were made for in game issues. Such as KSing people, training people, fucking over other raids.

Starting threads just to attack people personally, spamming the fuck out of it like Tiggles, Visage, other moronic people, or just threads that are so off base of whats going on in game. That's the issue.

Real game issues? Yea, post about it and spread the word. But to just talk smack to other guilds about how 30 people just spammed 1k life tap and making fun of the other guild for losing? Really?

[johnny ringo]

Really?

I find it unfathomable that people paid fifteen bucks a month back in the age of AOL for their twelve year-old kids to play an online video game.

I guess I just don't remember anyone being that young, either. Most of my guildies were at least a decade older than me, and I was 19 in 1999. The sub-based model was a real barrier of entry back then. It was my own money, and I had a hard time justifying it even though I had been searching for an MMORPG without knowing what it was. No one I played with lived at home with their parents, even.

Did your parents play? That's really the only feasible scenario I can see wherein a twelve year-old is playing EQ in 1999. Is that what this server is comprised of? The forgotten children of EverQuest addicts?

What have we done?

let me guess, when you were his age you had to march 5 miles to school, uphill both ways? then when you got home your parents whipped you and made you do family jigsaw puzzles.

get off his nuts.

[Beauregard]

Honestly, stifling the dissenters is to me more damning than anything anyone has ever posted in RnF or anywhere. Because dudes, actions really do speak louder than words.


I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Letting the cheaters off and locking down RnF screams favoritism, whereas before all this it was only questionable. Trying to muffle your playerbase is much worse PR than whatever the hell was being said about the staff in Rants and Flames forum. A forum which every EQ community ever has hosted.

It seems poor decisions are being made at the top.

[Barkingturtle]

let me guess, when you were his age you had to march 5 miles to school, uphill both ways? then when you got home your parents whipped you and made you do family jigsaw puzzles.

get off his nuts.

Let me guess, you're in the aforementioned age bracket.

No really, you don't have to answer that. It was a rhetorical question. Ask your mommy what that word means, Junior.

Anyway, when I was twelve I played pen and paper role-playing games like DnD and Shadowrun and the list goes on and on. I used to steal books from my school's library and trade them in at the used book store for new DMG's and Monster Manuals, because when you're twelve you don't have a job. My parents didn't whip me, they nurtured me and we sang a lot. Sometimes my uncle would fondle me and I'd pretend to be asleep.

So yeah. Get on my nuts.

[Humerox]

Some people seem to be forgetting that this forum isn't opt-out.

[Diggles]

I was a beast at the table top pokemon game.

[Razdeline]

I agree. R/F is being abused. Most of the posts there go in circles, people feed off of each other's trolling. It is a never ending disaster.

Most importantly, people are saying horrible things to other individuals that they would not say to their face IRL. That is where the abuse is.

[Diggles]

there's a reason it's RANTS AND FLAMES

it's not so we can play nice and have tea like Server Chat.

[Humerox]

RnF serves its purpose. It's a very good thermometer.

It's kind of like the idea of a free press, mixed with some National Enquirer. Sometimes you just want to know.

[Supreme]

RnF is there for a reason, and the option to opt out is present. I don't see the problem people have with it, if you don't like whats going on in there don't look.

exactly.

[Barkingturtle]

I agree. R/F is being abused. Most of the posts there go in circles, people feed off of each other's trolling. It is a never ending disaster.

Most importantly, people are saying horrible things to other individuals that they would not say to their face IRL. That is where the abuse is.

It is not a disaster. It is prose on a message board, usually of pathetic construction and desperate intent. Sometimes, it's clever and dryly humorous, but even then it is inconsequential. Like Freddy Krueger or the Easter Bunny, it only has power if you believe in it.

That said, I agree that it's an absolute cesspool. That's not the forum's fault, though. Rather it's the handiwork of some of its members. The current solution is akin to inducing a coma because your patient has herpes.

[Runningfish]

Was recently thinking the same thing.. I'm all for freedom of speech but a lot of the drama and discontent that we're dealing with is coming from RnF. It doesn't really serve a point aside from a place for people to fight and bitch. I also think we do need a bit more moderation here. This a lot of times is the public face of the server.. This is what people see before they actually download titanium and start playing. I guarantee that people will be turned away if all they see is drama, trolling, and bitching. Obviously everyone wants freedom of speech but personally I'd rather be able to play classic EQ than troll on a forum.

[Mcbard]

Rants and Flames isn't the problem, the people that post there are. Rants and Flames is just the effect. Stupid people saying stupid shit. Not worth losing developers and players over Rogean, I agree!

[booter]

RnF serves its purpose. It's a very good thermometer.

It's kind of like the idea of a free press, mixed with some National Enquirer. Sometimes you just want to know.

Flawed logic. The only stuff you see is from the same 5 - 10 loudest people who post hundreds if not thousands of times each week. It's an absolute echo chamber.

[Barkingturtle]

Was recently thinking the same thing.. I'm all for freedom of speech but a lot of the drama and discontent that we're dealing with is coming from RnF. It doesn't really serve a point aside from a place for people to fight and bitch. I also think we do need a bit more moderation here. This a lot of times is the public face of the server.. This is what people see before they actually download titanium and start playing. I guarantee that people will be turned away if all they see is drama, trolling, and bitching. Obviously everyone wants freedom of speech but personally I'd rather be able to play classic EQ than troll on a forum.

The obvious solution is to remove RnF posts from the "Recent Threads" area on the home page, then. That way, new users have to navigate to RnF purposely. Hell, include a disclaimer in the forum description even, for folks unfamiliar with how message boards work.

And frankly, a lot of people would be turned off if they came to a message board where everyone was getting along, giving one another reach-arounds and behaving perfectly civilly. It would be boring to a lot of people, myself included. You'd still have your nostalgia machine, but it would be far less organic and authentic. That's what censorship does: it turns everything sterile. RnF needs an enema, not a lobotomy.

[toddfx]

I 100% agree and for months have felt R&F is a stain on our community.

R&F is just glorifying the work of trolls, and that has boiled over into the rest of the forum and community long ago.

To be honest I pretty much stopped visiting P99 forums for quite a few months because I couldn't stand the tone that goes on around here. I attribute that to R&F folk. :mad:

[Malrubius]

The obvious solution is to remove RnF posts from the "Recent Threads" area on the home page, then. That way, new users have to navigate to RnF purposely. Hell, include a disclaimer in the forum description even, for folks unfamiliar with how message boards work.

That would be a start. In the past, I have decided NOT to point people to Project 1999, because I knew what they would see on the home page.

Personally, I'd still like to see it go away. Maybe it is organic, but so is cancer.

[Rais]

@lol at the idea RnF should be required because of Freedom of Speech.

[Humerox]

@lol at the idea RnF should be required because of Freedom of Speech.

Who said that?

[Labyrrinth]

Silky Venom also had a pretty pervasive RnF forums, aptly titled "The Volcano"

A lot of the people didn't like that forum, didn't even want to acknowledge it's existence. A lot of others felt it was needed. What we ended up doing, which really did help appease both sides was we put it near the very bottom of the forums list, with a warning, and probably the most important was we suppresed the last post "at-a-glance" view.

It's an idea that may work well here too.

[Barkingturtle]

That would be a start. In the past, I have decided NOT to point people to Project 1999, because I knew what they would see on the home page.

Personally, I'd still like to see it go away. Maybe it is organic, but so is cancer.

You realize of course that RnF is not some malignant growth forcing posters to behave in a misanthropic way, right? The "cancer" is people. Honestly, if someone had breast cancer would you just cut off the whole boob?

Poor example.

Really though, I get what people are saying. The RnF section here is crap; no debate here. But again, that's not the whole board's fault. It's a handful of posters. So ban them. IP ban them and when they make sock accounts do it again. If it's more than a handful, then it's the community itself, and those asking for more civility and less random, meaningless vitriol are deluding themselves into thinking they themselves are not the gentle, cuddly minority.

[Slathar]

You realize of course that RnF is not some malignant growth forcing posters to behave in a misanthropic way, right? The "cancer" is people. Honestly, if someone had breast cancer would you just cut off the whole boob?

Poor example.

Really though, I get what people are saying. The RnF section here is crap; no debate here. But again, that's not the whole board's fault. It's a handful of posters. So ban them. IP ban them and when they make sock accounts do it again. If it's more than a handful, then it's the community itself, and those asking for more civility and less random, meaningless vitriol are deluding themselves into thinking they themselves are not the gentle, cuddly minority.


Viva la RnF! We bring the truth to the masses through networking, honest journalism, and felching.

[porigromus]

Were the devs correct in all their decisions? I don't know. What I do know is they offer us for free the absolutely best classic server around. This is what we all wanted for years and we have it. Don't run off the great people who made it happen for us. Thank you to all who do this for us. Many of us appreciate the hard work.

Yes a chunk of the population was cheating. It also happened in the live game but I still want the game to be here to play. SOE took it away by destroying it, please don't talk the developers into doing it here. Thanks.

[Hagglebaron]

If you have some ranting and/or flaming to do, head on into rants and flames. If you are horrified and offended by what goes on in there, use the opt out option.

What is so hard about this concept?

[Diggles]

If you have some ranting and/or flaming to do, head on into rants and flames. If you are horrified and offended by what goes on in there, use the opt out option.

What is so hard about this concept?

apparently it scares away newbies.

which we've provided an answer to, hide recent post and put it at the bottom of the forum list. hell, put a warning up or something

[mitic]

we need a new rule for r&f:

no posts about devs, even if it comes from another dev.

[Malrubius]

You realize of course that RnF is not some malignant growth forcing posters to behave in a misanthropic way, right? The "cancer" is people. Honestly, if someone had breast cancer would you just cut off the whole boob?

Poor example.

Really though, I get what people are saying. The RnF section here is crap; no debate here. But again, that's not the whole board's fault. It's a handful of posters. So ban them. IP ban them and when they make sock accounts do it again. If it's more than a handful, then it's the community itself, and those asking for more civility and less random, meaningless vitriol are deluding themselves into thinking they themselves are not the gentle, cuddly minority.

I agree with you, it is a handful of people and not R&F itself. However, the existence of R&F (in its present form) implies acceptance of, and even encourages, that behavior. Maybe we can call it nicotine ;)

So yeah, IF the problem posters could be really and truly banned from the forums (repeatedly and regularly as necessary), THEN, the existence of an R&F in and of itself wouldn't be a problem.

But I still like your idea of removing its posts from the "Recent Threads" section on the home page ASAP (as a temporary fix until the bans can start making a real impact).

[Salty]

yay!!!!!!!!!!

[Bubbles]

Really?

I find it unfathomable that people paid fifteen bucks a month back in the age of AOL for their twelve year-old kids to play an online video game.



Just for information's sake, and to show my age, it was only $10 a month in 1999. ;)

[Barkingturtle]

Just for information's sake, and to show my age, it was only $10 a month in 1999. ;)

Was it really? I don't remember that.

I do remember buying the game itself for like fifteen bucks. Didn't even come in a box, just a CD case. I think it was in a bin at Target.

[nilbog]

AOL service itself was like $19.95, eq was $9.89 I thought? Just like the 989 studios.

Game was expensive, but obviously worth it. I think I paid 49.95 for my retail copy.

[Bardalicious]

AOL service itself was like $19.95, eq was $9.89 I thought? Just like the 989 studios.

Game was expensive, but obviously worth it. I think I paid 49.95 for my retail copy.

Yes, it was just under 10/month.

It was fairly expensive to buy when it first came out, but I believe they introduced the Jewel Case copies (without the box or anything else) for pretty cheap not long after. I've got that laying around still somewhere heh.

[Runningfish]

It's not that I find R&F offensive it just doesn't really serve a purpose. If you have beef with someone, solve it in tells not in OOC. The same logic applies here IMO. I agree it's the people not the forum but why support the stupidity by giving them R&F? If they really want a forum to bitch and fight on they can make their own. Yes you can opt out but people who are new to the community will probably see R&F before noticing the opt out thread. When it comes down to it I think the question is whether or not R&F is Good for the community.

[SUSUGAM]

BURN IT TO THE GROUND

[SUSUGAM]

It's not that I find R&F offensive it just doesn't really serve a purpose. If you have beef with someone, solve it in tells not in OOC. The same logic applies here IMO. I agree it's the people not the forum but why support the stupidity by giving them R&F? If they really want a forum to bitch and fight on they can make their own. Yes you can opt out but people who are new to the community will probably see R&F before noticing the opt out thread. When it comes down to it I think the question is whether or not R&F is Good for the community.

you are dumb. RnF is entertaining.

[Diggles]

Yes, it was just under 10/month.

It was fairly expensive to buy when it first came out, but I believe they introduced the Jewel Case copies (without the box or anything else) for pretty cheap not long after. I've got that laying around still somewhere heh.
I have every expansion up to PoP in jewel cases in my game room

[Anger]

I move that we take down R&F. So far we have lost two devoted DEVs. I personally believe this is because of R&F section of the forum. People can post there own rants on there own guild web page. Lets take this down and get more moderators here. We are hurting our development of the server.

shut the fuck up fatty

[Razdeline]

Kruel is right.

[Chanur]

Kruel is retarded. Take away the central area for shit slinging and pretty soon its splattered on the rest of the board.