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Rogean
08-25-2011, 11:24 AM
Originally I had decided not to devise a system against users intentionally going LD while zoning, but we have brought it up internally and are now considering it. A system like this may or may not be difficult to implement, and there's no guarantee that it will be available at the launch of the server, or even at all. With that said,
I am opening it for discussion. The system would force a player spawn even if their client has closed the connection while zoning, and they would appear linkdead for the 30 seconds. Due to the nature of the zoning process, it could take up to 5 minutes for a player to pop out linkdead while zoning.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 11:29 AM
Forcing a player spawn when in pvp mode is perfect IMO. I remember people would plug without zoning - also remember having to run a few times when a Warrior plugged while in zone bc the now-npc-warrior was 2x better than the player was when plugged in :D

Arillious
08-25-2011, 11:30 AM
More people dieing is fine by me.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 11:32 AM
IMO you'd want to be sure they had same or better exp loss for plugging (assuming they die)... otherwise it's an incentive to plug

Humerox
08-25-2011, 11:32 AM
Plugging is a huge problem in PvP. Any measure taken toward resolving it is fantastic!

:D

Kope
08-25-2011, 11:36 AM
What about people who zonecrash legitimately?

I crash every 4th or 5th zone and I haven't been able to figure out why yet (could be my horrible college campus connection).

Rogean
08-25-2011, 11:40 AM
What about people who zonecrash legitimately?

I crash every 4th or 5th zone and I haven't been able to figure out why yet (could be my horrible college campus connection).

Hope nobody is around the zoneline that doesn't like you then :P

A few things to note:

Your character will fight back.

And we will put in a message to notify you when you log in with a list of players who attacked and killed you while you were linkdead.

Humerox
08-25-2011, 11:48 AM
^^ awesome.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 11:55 AM
And we will put in a message to notify you when you log in with a list of players who attacked and killed you while you were linkdead.

See, now this sound FUN! Would certainly bring a lot of grins around the server, fun screenshots for posting, etc.

Accountability. Anytime you bring accountability and force it on the players, it's a good thing IMO. Own what you do online baby.

pasi
08-25-2011, 11:59 AM
Plugging is awful. System is great.

Xantille
08-25-2011, 12:06 PM
not my preciousssssssssssssssss

I don't really care either way (more non-yt for me LULS), but two issues I can think of:

1) The one previously brought up, i.e. the legitimate zone crash. Those people are dead, regardless of whether or not they fight back like an NPC. The list of people who attacked you thing is interesting, though, but hardly a deterrent.

2) There is strategic value in plugging, especially on a server where you won't be able to /who zones. Misdirection is key.

I'm thinking of a situation where two guilds are fighting over a raid mob. Guild A is camping a zone line and Guild B is outside. Guild B doesn't want Guild A to know when they're zoning in, so they zone in and plug to make Guild A think they gave up / logged out.

By 'fixing' plugging in this way, you are legislating that CLASSIC strategy (among others) out of the game.

Vile
08-25-2011, 12:06 PM
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

fiegi
08-25-2011, 12:11 PM
Killing someone before they get to the zoneline requires lots of strategy, and changing this would take that away. I myself enjoy chain casting root at zonelines.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 12:18 PM
"Legitimate zone crash"... yeah, I could understand that the first 6 months of live EQ. After that, I can't remember a single time when any of my group mates zone crashed when we were exp'ing around the town. But somehow the pvp moments increase the frequency of "legitimate zone crash" events, IMO.

the ratio of "legitimate zone crashes" vs "party poopers" exponentially tells me that it's worth adding Rogean's accountability ideas vice not implementing them. Had a legitimate zone crash? Shit happens. Enjoy all the other times when you get to smoke the other guy who wants to purposely zone plug on you... of course if we implemented Rogean's idea, a ton less "run to the zoneline!" happens anymore.

Yukahwa
08-25-2011, 12:29 PM
I think it was fine with zone plugs. Makes you know how NPC's feel. And yeah, it just means you have to keep people from zone lines. Part of the game. Might as well make it so NPC's could zone out with you too.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 12:32 PM
I think it was fine with zone plugs. Makes you know how NPC's feel. And yeah, it just means you have to keep people from zone lines. Part of the game. Might as well make it so NPC's could zone out with you too.

Negative, I disagree with your argument. The Zekkers only PVE'd to enable them to PVP.

Bardalicious
08-25-2011, 12:32 PM
The only reason it is part of the game is because it is an unintended exploit of game mechanics. If they had wanted you to be able to disconnect while zoning without facing PVP consequences, they would have given you the option to do so.

Disconnecting your modem or ending eqgame.exe is not part of the game. I'm all for popping them out on the other side if they plug.

YendorLootmonkey
08-25-2011, 12:34 PM
I think it was fine with zone plugs. Makes you know how NPC's feel. And yeah, it just means you have to keep people from zone lines. Part of the game. Might as well make it so NPC's could zone out with you too.

Wouldn't it put pure melee classes at even more of a disadvantage, since they really don't have a way of keeping their targets away from the zoneline.

Seems to me this system promotes pvp instead of allowing pvp avoidance, and forces people to choose their battles more carefully, as there may not be an 'easy out'. This is what you guys want, is it not?

dusk883
08-25-2011, 12:36 PM
Wouldn't it put pure melee classes at even more of a disadvantage, since they really don't have a way of keeping their targets away from the zoneline.

Seems to me this system promotes pvp instead of allowing pvp avoidance, and forces people to choose their battles more carefully, as there may not be an 'easy out'. This is what you guys want, is it not?

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??!!

Yukahwa
08-25-2011, 12:36 PM
PVP avoidance is part of PVP. Yeah, it does keep people engaged in PVP. It also means Melee's (that cant gate) are stuck in PVP until they die or win, which kinda balances out the fact that they can't keep people held down.

People that running and zone plugging are people that didn't choose their battles at all and don't want to be part of that battle that chose them haha.

I just like classic experience and was never bothered by zone plugging. Either wait on the other side or move on. I think there are bigger fish to fry.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 12:38 PM
Melee players who unplugged in the middle of a pvp fight became absolute bastards sometimes on TZ, now they didn't make any mistakes when trailing you the caster. IMO this is all a win for melee guys who turn into NPCs when unplugged. To this day I'll try to Charm a P99 player if I see them LD, I never know when it'll work.

Civeal
08-25-2011, 12:46 PM
what if you slowed reallllly slow, would it pop you on the other side before you actually zoned? and would you die without having the chance to fight back?

Rogean
08-25-2011, 12:49 PM
Melee players who unplugged in the middle of a pvp fight became absolute bastards sometimes on TZ, now they didn't make any mistakes when trailing you the caster. IMO this is all a win for melee guys who turn into NPCs when unplugged. To this day I'll try to Charm a P99 player if I see them LD, I never know when it'll work.

Yea but a rooted LD PC won't pumice it off :)

Bardalicious
08-25-2011, 12:50 PM
what if you slowed reallllly slow, would it pop you on the other side before you actually zoned? and would you die without having the chance to fight back?


Didn't you just read that he said it would take about 5 minutes to see the player on the other side on an actual disconnect? Do you zone slower than that? And if so, do you play on a TI-83 calculator?

YendorLootmonkey
08-25-2011, 12:54 PM
The only reason it is part of the game is because it is an unintended exploit of game mechanics. If they had wanted you to be able to disconnect while zoning without facing PVP consequences, they would have given you the option to do so.

Disconnecting your modem or ending eqgame.exe is not part of the game.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 12:54 PM
Pumice wasnt a game changer until well after Kunark IMO... it was pricey and if I remember right it had a long cast time for some time on Live. Yeah, when everyone eventually had money to spend and the time when Pumice was instant, it was an issue. I would log in and spend an hour to go fund the 50 effing stones I would need for the week. I think Pumice has to be addressed, it just wasn't implemented very well. Often times though, I know many people didn't take the time to junk buff and pumice would often be a bigger detriment than help.. wiping off their cleric buff before they get to my Clinging Darkness? That's a win for me. If they were prepared? Yeah, it was a pain.

Halister
08-25-2011, 12:58 PM
I'm thinking the same thing about this as about the other issues. Zoneplugging was part of the excitement. Get that fucker before he gets to the zone or he's gone.

Everquest is never going to be "fair". By implementing this anti-zoneplug thing youre pretty much fucking over slow-zoners. Having a shittier computer/connection puts you at a disadvantage by zonelines as you will have longer loading times than the other guy. Maybe not a very big deal, but then again neither is zoneplugging.

Never understood why it upset people so much. Try to kill the guy later? Go kill someone else? Team up with someone and make sure you debuff and root the guy you're trying to kill? People are way to fixated with their killshots- you ran the fucker out of the zone, you made him humiliate himself by zoneplugging. You won. Do you really need a sticker, too?

Convict
08-25-2011, 01:02 PM
Never understood why it upset people so much. Try to kill the guy later? Go kill someone else? Team up with someone and make sure you debuff and root the guy you're trying to kill? People are way to fixated with their killshots- you ran the fucker out of the zone, you made him humiliate himself by zoneplugging. You won. Do you really need a sticker, too?

^

dusk883
08-25-2011, 01:02 PM
Agree in spirit with Halister. I never got "mad bro" when someone ran for the zone, I knew I "won" already and I didn't want or need any yellow text. The chase to the zoneline in Steamfont has a ton of memories, knowing that I could beat someone there by going "over" the mountain by Halv (?) vice so many elves going "around" it from the mills. To be there waiting was gold when they arrived.

However... knowing you'll get to hear the dying sound effects if they do zone and you zone slow... that's also gold. I was a slow zoner so I never got to chase anyone beyond the zoneline when they did make it. I didnt want a sticker but I did want to make the biggest impact on the player when he came to Steamfont to smoke gnomes.

The cost/benefit of ending zoneplugging to save your life is a goooooood thing in the end IMO.

SearyxTZ
08-25-2011, 01:08 PM
I never got "mad bro" when someone ran for the zone

I sure did. =/

Anything to combat zone plugging would be awesome. Plain and simple: it's an easily-abused exploit that makes the game less fun.

nilbog
08-25-2011, 01:17 PM
Arguing in favor of zone plugging is pure lols. Networking strategy has no place in an mmorpg IMO.

Sent while loling from my iPhone

Yukahwa
08-25-2011, 01:21 PM
On one hand we are told that the game will be the shitty unbalanced eq we all love and hate, and on the other hand we want to fix a lot of old problems no one ever really saw as problems during live PVP days.

Lets balance the classes while we are at it.

lethdar
08-25-2011, 01:31 PM
It would be nice if there was some large resist penalty on linkdead players. On vztz I leveled up a warrior to 60 to drag behind me and just /q with 200mr and sow while i mained the bard. Going from pc level melee to NPC with perfect stick is a pretty large jump.

Bardalicious
08-25-2011, 01:34 PM
Arguing in favor of zone plugging is pure lols. Networking strategy has no place in an mmorpg IMO.

Sent while loling from my iPhone

I love you. Really.

This server will be amazing. No hacking was the best announcement possible. No yellow text and no zone plugging will be icing on the already delicious cake.

Bardalicious
08-25-2011, 01:38 PM
On one hand we are told that the game will be the shitty unbalanced eq we all love and hate, and on the other hand we want to fix a lot of old problems no one ever really saw as problems during live PVP days.

Lets balance the classes while we are at it.

There's a HUGE difference between balancing classes and fixing game exploits. By your same logic, since things like hacking client-side offsets to exploit the game was classic, we should just leave it in right?

Zone plugging IS NOT PART OF THE GAME. It is an exploit of the game system that was not intended to be abused. Period.

And you are sadly mistaken. Plenty of people have a problem with fighting a player in PVP just to have them zone and pull the plug to fuck them out of the kill.

Halister
08-25-2011, 01:39 PM
I don't see it much as an exploit. The pve game is strongly built around strictly divided zones, I see nothing wrong in using the same mindset for pvp is all.

I also am not alltogether that much for fixing things that really aren't broken. I always played this game with people plugging now and then, I still like this game. I'm looking for an original server with good community and good antihacks. If Rogean and co can get that up and running all of these game-mechanical issues will sort themselves out. A lot of the charm with eq, the loot and scoot rules and all of these "easily abused exploits" were controlled by the community, not mechanics or gm's. It was a part of the charm of the game. It's what's been lacking on our other pvp servers.

I mean seriously, there are a lot of things like this that could be adjusted for different reasons. If we are to balance things like this for pvp, why not throw in a hard coded zonetime that evens out that? Just like it seems illogical that people should be able to poof zoning it seems illogical that it would take one person 15 seconds to travel that magical foot between sola and lavastorm while it takes the other a minute.

Vile
08-25-2011, 01:43 PM
I love you. Really.

This server will be amazing. No hacking was the best announcement possible. No yellow text and no zone plugging will be icing on the already delicious cake.

om nom nom nom

dusk883
08-25-2011, 01:44 PM
noone is saying you shouldnt be able to zone out, most of those who do run for the zone are going to make it IMO. Just those who additionally zone plug are being addressed. Nothing "wrong" with hauling it to the zoneline.... just the unplugging part is a joke that needs accountability

Halister
08-25-2011, 01:47 PM
The people that zone fast will make it most of the time, the people that don't will die most of the time. I zone pretty fast myself. Just saying it seems just as gamebreaking to me as zoneplugging does.

Smedy
08-25-2011, 01:53 PM
Since there won't be any big consequences from dieing in pvp i would like a system for when people plug while zoning. It's gonna be 5% that actually crash while zonging and are victims of this, however the other 95% gonna get what they deserve, pluggin scum!

Makes pvp more fun when you know, you're never safe, not even by zone lines.

Bardalicious
08-25-2011, 02:00 PM
I don't see it much as an exploit. The pve game is strongly built around strictly divided zones, I see nothing wrong in using the same mindset for pvp is all.

I also am not alltogether that much for fixing things that really aren't broken. I always played this game with people plugging now and then, I still like this game. I'm looking for an original server with good community and good antihacks. If Rogean and co can get that up and running all of these game-mechanical issues will sort themselves out. A lot of the charm with eq, the loot and scoot rules and all of these "easily abused exploits" were controlled by the community, not mechanics or gm's. It was a part of the charm of the game. It's what's been lacking on our other pvp servers.

I mean seriously, there are a lot of things like this that could be adjusted for different reasons. If we are to balance things like this for pvp, why not throw in a hard coded zonetime that evens out that? Just like it seems illogical that people should be able to poof zoning it seems illogical that it would take one person 15 seconds to travel that magical foot between sola and lavastorm while it takes the other a minute.

Disconnecting intentionally from the game client during a zoning session is an outright exploit, if you are too stubborn to admit it, then I have no reason to argue with you. The system is obviously broken if it is being used to undesired effects. Just as you cannot instantly camp while you are engaged in PVP combat, neither should you be able to instantly disappear from the world while you are zoning.

What it comes down to, is people are afraid of the accountability they will face. If you want to PVP, you had better damn well be prepared to own up to the fight if you are losing. Unlike the past where you could simply hoof it to the zone and face no consequences when you plug. It is a security blanket that was never meant to be there. Mad props to Rogean and Nilbog for wanting to take that away.

Bardalicious
08-25-2011, 02:02 PM
Makes pvp more fun when you know, you're never safe, not even by zone lines.

Exactly.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 02:04 PM
Since there won't be any big consequences from dieing in pvp i would like a system for when people plug while zoning. It's gonna be 5% that actually crash while zonging and are victims of this, however the other 95% gonna get what they deserve, pluggin scum!

Makes pvp more fun when you know, you're never safe, not even by zone lines.

This is a great point IMO... if there's exp loss, I bet the number of potential zone plugs goes thru the roof if there's no exp loss for doing so. I also believe there will be tons of plugging without zoning if it means you become an NPC when LD and unlootable, etc.

SearyxTZ
08-25-2011, 02:11 PM
This should really be one of those things that there is unanimous agreement on. I'm honestly kind of impressed that someone took a stab at arguing a case for zoneplugging lol.

pasi
08-25-2011, 02:14 PM
This should really be one of those things that there is unanimous agreement on. I'm honestly kind of impressed that someone took a stab at arguing a case for zoneplugging lol.

My feelings as well.

Halister
08-25-2011, 02:23 PM
I'm pretty much posting the same thing on all these different issues. I don't think they are problems big enough that they would need have development time put in. Nothing much in eq pvp really did aggrevate me. To me it really isn't a problem and therefore i don't care much if it's fixed or not.

I dont see either of the alternatives as more or less hardcore, or whatever it is that we are discussing. I'll play the game and be just as happy wether plugging is in or not. I kind of feel if these are the issues being worked on we should already be playing, you know?

juicedsixfo
08-25-2011, 02:23 PM
I'm honestly kind of impressed that someone took a stab at arguing a case for zoneplugging lol.

Well when said person is a confirmed plugger you gotta try and at least... well...

lol seriously

Xantille
08-25-2011, 02:31 PM
Pumice wasnt a game changer until well after Kunark IMO... it was pricey and if I remember right it had a long cast time for some time on Live. Yeah, when everyone eventually had money to spend and the time when Pumice was instant, it was an issue. I would log in and spend an hour to go fund the 50 effing stones I would need for the week. I think Pumice has to be addressed, it just wasn't implemented very well. Often times though, I know many people didn't take the time to junk buff and pumice would often be a bigger detriment than help.. wiping off their cleric buff before they get to my Clinging Darkness? That's a win for me. If they were prepared? Yeah, it was a pain.

WAT

YendorLootmonkey
08-25-2011, 02:32 PM
I'm pretty much posting the same thing on all these different issues. I don't think they are problems big enough that they would need have development time put in. Nothing much in eq pvp really did aggrevate me. To me it really isn't a problem and therefore i don't care much if it's fixed or not.

I dont see either of the alternatives as more or less hardcore, or whatever it is that we are discussing. I'll play the game and be just as happy wether plugging is in or not. I kind of feel if these are the issues being worked on we should already be playing, you know?

Do you want a server with a healthy population or not? I would think that would be the primary goal vs. "omg start it up already!!1!" Let them take the time to do it right so you guys have a more fun experience.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 02:43 PM
WAT

Yeah, I started re-thinking that, too :D

Here's a fact though: Woohoo Wawazzat laughed at anyone who had time to use Pumice (when it had a casting time). Of course, necro laughs at everyone I suppose.

Pumice has to be looked at, I do remember being effing MISERABLE with all the pumice I had to carry around though when it was an instant.

Xantille
08-25-2011, 02:45 PM
I will lol if egg shaped pumice is in game. Since a majority of the server won't be stacking buffs for shit (esp early on), instant pumice will make running -- even from a melee -- a near impossibility.

now back to regularly scheduled thesis on the evils of reaching the glory land.

Bardalicious
08-25-2011, 02:47 PM
I'm pretty much posting the same thing on all these different issues. I don't think they are problems big enough that they would need have development time put in. Nothing much in eq pvp really did aggrevate me. To me it really isn't a problem and therefore i don't care much if it's fixed or not.

I dont see either of the alternatives as more or less hardcore, or whatever it is that we are discussing. I'll play the game and be just as happy wether plugging is in or not. I kind of feel if these are the issues being worked on we should already be playing, you know?

Lol, yeah, now I really know you aren't worth arguing with.

Considering the point you are attempting to make here is....

"Well, if they are spending time on fixing things they might as well just stop and turn the server on!"

You have no idea where in the development stage of the server they are at. They have a multi-person team and this is just one of many things they are likely working on. The actual coding for most of these stickied issues takes very little time to implement. I'd much rather spend the next 2 months having them get community feedback on these issues and have them sorted out prior to release than have a half-assed server put up right now. Believe me, there have been plenty of those floating around already.

dusk883
08-25-2011, 02:50 PM
IMO lets play on the half assed server right now today... and know that it'll be rebooted, changed, wiped, whatever else. Wouldn't be a better "launch" day if we call it Beta now in whatever state it is in now? Just being able to play P99 style pvp at all in any form without the douchebaggery of other servers who have tried...

Halister
08-25-2011, 03:06 PM
It incredible how one tracked your minds are. Did i say i wanted to play on a crashing piece of shit server? No, I didn't. Did i say RELEASE NOW!!11? No, I didn't. Did i claim to know what stage of development they are in? No, I didn't claim that either.

To make it easier to understand here's the important part; most of these issues have never bothered me and I'm surprised so many of you see them as problems. Why would I prefer to wait for something being implemented that I don't think is a problem?

It's pretty apparant that the people venting here are mostly for it. If it makes for a stronger community or whatever it is you are saying it will achieve then go ahead. To me it's a non issue. Is this so hard to understand?

Naikon
08-25-2011, 04:09 PM
Yes to removing zone plugging

Its not important to me either way and I would only say its not worth putting in a significant amount of man hours. Players will adjust their play style to the rules one way or another.

beentheredonethat
08-25-2011, 06:00 PM
Personally don't care of people plug while zoning. This was never a problem on Rallos. It happened, it wasn't an issue to anyone though.

Besides people can lose connection legitimately, don't want to penalize them for that probably.

Yukahwa
08-25-2011, 06:02 PM
Yep, it just happened, wasn't a big deal. If you want to kill the guy wait for him on the other side when he reboots or just walk away and try harder to kill before the zone line next time.

Scribbles
08-25-2011, 06:08 PM
when ppl do it it pisses me off to no end, but as someone who never actually plugs but crashes every 2-3 times i zone something like this would assrape me, especially if after you get disconnected/crash it takes like 10 minutes to log back in (a la voidds boxing limit). if i could log back in before my npc self appeared, then 100% for it

Vile
08-25-2011, 06:26 PM
when ppl do it it pisses me off to no end, but as someone who never actually plugs but crashes every 2-3 times i zone something like this would assrape me, especially if after you get disconnected/crash it takes like 10 minutes to log back in (a la voidds boxing limit). if i could log back in before my npc self appeared, then 100% for it


Fix your shit box brah.

Crenshinabon
08-25-2011, 06:29 PM
Arguing in favor of zone plugging is pure lols. Networking strategy has no place in an mmorpg IMO.

Sent while loling from my iPhone

Why is it so much lols?
What I think is lame is that people with a faster comp have an obvious advantage when it comes to zoning. Taking out plugging is seriously fked up and if thats the case I wouldnt even make a melee.

To even out taking out plugging can you should make a minimum zone time for people with rediculous amounts of money to spend on a fast computer? Say minimum zone time is 15 - 20 seconds.

If they complete their zone, re zone, then I appear after he has already zoned I lose hands down. This would be 100% frustrating and to know that they can get away every time by doing that and I can't have any chance to escape is broken and frustrating.

Pudge
08-25-2011, 06:33 PM
rogean: if I disconnected/plugged, what would happen if i went to log into the server again before the 5 minute timer was up? would i be locked out untill my character finally loaded to the other side, stood around for 2 minutes, and then poofed?

Yukahwa
08-25-2011, 06:33 PM
Good point Creshinabon.

I am in favor of doing nothing about this issue because it seems like a waste of time. I can see how its a legitimate problem for slow pokes with slow computers and bad internet connections, so now I really think the actual best way (regardless) is to leave it as-is.

Vile
08-25-2011, 06:34 PM
Why is it so much lols?
What I think is lame is that people with a faster comp have an obvious advantage when it comes to zoning. Taking out plugging is seriously fked up and if thats the case I wouldnt even make a melee.

To even out taking out plugging can you should make a minimum zone time for people with rediculous amounts of money to spend on a fast computer? Say minimum zone time is 15 - 20 seconds.

If they complete their zone, re zone, then I appear after he has already zoned I lose hands down. This would be 100% frustrating and to know that they can get away every time by doing that and I can't have any chance to escape is broken and frustrating.

I can't read past all the QQ here. Anyone help me out?

Pudge
08-25-2011, 06:35 PM
i agree with the above.. implement this shit later on, it's not that big of a deal.

we want to get to PVPING!

Crenshinabon
08-25-2011, 06:42 PM
I can't read past all the QQ here. Anyone help me out?

QQ to you is me being super surprised that Rogean and Nill are trying to take plugging out of the game when I already think melee has an incredible disadvantage as it is. What I thought was always broken was the fact that people zone at different rates. Plugging is just something else broken that needs to be there to alleviate the grief. Vile don't you play a caster on every box you play on anyways? Not to mention you probably have a faster computer than me. Sounds like a fun server.

YendorLootmonkey
08-25-2011, 06:42 PM
What I think is lame is that people with a faster comp have an obvious advantage when it comes to every competitive 3D graphical multiplayer game EVER.

News at 11.

Crenshinabon
08-25-2011, 06:47 PM
Lol except not at all, I can think of no other 3d game or mmo etc that uses the same zone structure as EQ. It doesnt matter in pve but it does in pvp.

pasi
08-25-2011, 06:47 PM
It takes my Pentium II 6 minutes to zone, can you guys put in a realistic minimum zone time to make this more like the classic experience???

YendorLootmonkey
08-25-2011, 06:49 PM
Lol except not at all, I can think of no other 3d game or mmo etc that uses the same zone structure as EQ. It doesnt matter in pve but it does in pvp.

So the guy with a 2.0GHz AMD has no advantage over your 350MHz Pentium-2 while playing a first-person shooter as you choke along at your frame rate of 4?

Crenshinabon
08-25-2011, 06:50 PM
Make jokes all you want, but even my mid range P4, ddr2, nvidia 8800 has a slow time at zones compared to some others I have seen. Pretty sure a lot of the community will not have much better than this except a lot of the hardcores who will grief people off server.

And none of that even comes close to compare to zones Shoveler. I play Battlefield, bioshock etc, just turn down the graphics. Never once in the middle of chasing someone in a fps battle have we both had to go to a loading screen to load the flag capture point or the next area to shoot in.

YendorLootmonkey
08-25-2011, 07:00 PM
Turn up your virtual memory size and defrag your HD. You know what I meant -- people with faster computers generally have an advantage over those who don't in FPS, multiplayer games, etc. You turned your reso down in BF2 and maybe your view distance, but that guy running his reso at 1600x1200 at 100% view distance had the advantage over you.

raptorak
08-25-2011, 07:06 PM
Hmm I have an awesome computer but I often crash when zoning, it was pretty much 50% of the time until I turned off texture cacheing, now it is about 20%. As long as we can't be looted and we don't lose any exp I guess I can live with this system.

Buhbuh
08-25-2011, 07:56 PM
The people that zone fast will make it most of the time, the people that don't will die most of the time. I zone pretty fast myself. Just saying it seems just as gamebreaking to me as zoneplugging does.

This is where I have a "fuck 'em" attitude.

Now, let's remember why EQ sucked ass after Velious.

First, let me preface my explanation by first stating that zone plugging was a pretty novel thing to do in EQ during the Velious era (essentially no one devised doing it in PvP. It was mostly a way to get to PoM.)

With that in mind, Luclin came out and had safe zones. BUT, not only did it have safe zones, it had instant click exodus's and portals for Druids and Wizards!

Then came PoP with more safe zones, more AA's, more insane gear without proper scaling to help end the lives of people in much the same quick manner as previously seen in Velious and before then. That was Sony's fault. Moving on...

LDoN-- yay! Instances! (By this point plugging was rampant.)

Then later some bullshit gating AA for all classes? I hardly remember.

Case in point: EQ sucked because there became too many ways for people to A) escape PvP, and B) the gear scaled with PvP mechanics over time made a PvP battle between 2 people sometimes last 3 hours (some of them were epic, don't get me wrong).

So if we're making a list of things that were wrong with EQ, the terrible things that prevented real, honest PvP, it would start as follows:

1. Safe zones
2. Alternate Advancement (some were actually good ideas, ironically enough).
3. Instances
4. Hackers
5. Zone pluggers
6. Too much gear with too many stats
7. More levels
-----------------
8. Sony
9. My mom yelling at me to take out the garbage
10. Guilds ran by people who didn't want to stir anyone up
11. Iloveyou
12. That Constellations chick in the RL pic forum is really quite gorgeous and stunning, amirite or wut?
13. I've got a thing for those deep, dark brown peepers. I MELT, BREW.

But seriously, 1-7. Dying isn't a big deal. I suicide by going Rambo on full groups all the time, pals. I zone, sure. I don't plug. It isn't really a "tactic."

The reality is that you've lost at the point if plugging. You're just denying anyone else the pleasure of getting the kill of you out of spite and pride. I'm surprised no one else has said that. Don't call plugging something it isn't, something tactical or noble or even remotely natural to the game.

It is an exploit. What's that quote?

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right." -- Thomas Paine, y'all.

Galacticus
08-25-2011, 08:39 PM
Originally I had decided not to devise a system against users intentionally going LD while zoning, but we have brought it up internally and are now considering it. A system like this may or may not be difficult to implement, and there's no guarantee that it will be available at the launch of the server, or even at all. With that said,
I am opening it for discussion. The system would force a player spawn even if their client has closed the connection while zoning, and they would appear linkdead for the 30 seconds. Due to the nature of the zoning process, it could take up to 5 minutes for a player to pop out linkdead while zoning.

Yes. Good idea.

Amuk
08-25-2011, 08:44 PM
Keep plugging in ahah, I like suicide missions against several players, but at least I know I have a slim ass fucken chance of maken it to the ZL - I can understand both sides, I just won't be able to attempt to solo fight grps anymore.

Lazortag
08-25-2011, 09:10 PM
If you're going to have exp loss on death then you have to allow zone plugging. If I'm running away from a mob (that can kill me and take away my exp), I'm safe so long as I reach a zoneline. Why should it be different with a player? I'm okay with taking away plugging but only if you don't allow exp loss on death.

raptorak
08-25-2011, 09:12 PM
Exp loss on death is a horrible idea - these emu servers barely work properly as it is, let alone losing exp from being consistently griefed as you fail to log back on to the server after crashing at zone. And what was wrong with loosing cash?

Rushmore
08-25-2011, 09:29 PM
There needs to be at least 5 mins of downtime if you do decide to plug...

I would prefer 10mins. Plugging YES we all do it.... Why wouldn't you?

But if you do there should be some punishment. Especially in massive pvp fights for Naggy etc. 10 mins is a life time....and when you puss out you should be punished.

I know occasionally it happens on accident; not plugging itself but other problems that you may have. And yes that sucks...but plugging is a real problem and something should be put in place to protect everyone.

This is a simple fix as opposed to implementing some Jesus like system to save us all.

Envious
08-25-2011, 09:43 PM
/signed

Rushmore
08-25-2011, 09:58 PM
/signed

?

Aenor
08-25-2011, 11:22 PM
Didn't you just read that he said it would take about 5 minutes to see the player on the other side on an actual disconnect? Do you zone slower than that? And if so, do you play on a TI-83 calculator?

He said up to, not about. RIF.

Vile
08-26-2011, 10:39 AM
Buy new computers, box Red 99.

Littlegyno
08-26-2011, 10:49 AM
Vile, we've plugged ourselves into the glory land quite a few times haven't we dog? When all those african americans chasing us and shit.

Bigpop
08-26-2011, 11:02 AM
Didn't read the whole thread so not sure if this was mentioned, but on live people would plug while running away from someone not even near a zone line...wait a few seconds and then plug back in resulting in a kind of warp where you wouldn't know where the other person had gone.
ghosting or whatever you want to call it some people considered to be "strategy" and a legitimate tactic(bullshit)

Knuckle
08-26-2011, 11:19 AM
I don't like the idea if its going to slow down pvp that significantly. If it made them pop out like 1minute later I'd say yeah lets do this...But 5 minutes? Jesus. Also, let's keep in mind this will detract from focus on the spell resist system, which needs to be fair and balanced more than any other aspect of everquest pvp.

mimixownzall
08-27-2011, 02:10 PM
To me, killing someone isn't the only means to 'defeat' someone. If they run or zone plug I consider it a win.

Yukahwa
08-27-2011, 02:30 PM
That's a good point. The only reason you need to see a corpse is to loot an item from it. Im for item loot..and don't care about zone plugging. Waste of coding time.

Muaar
08-27-2011, 06:49 PM
sounds good. fully support even thought i love plugging and even had a button for it in live.

Harrison
08-27-2011, 07:15 PM
sounds good. fully support even thought i love plugging and even had a button for it in live.

You support training, and exploiting, so far.

Good to know who the scumbags are ahead of time!

Muaar
08-27-2011, 07:22 PM
Actually the entire point of my supporting training is to prevent exploiting a system created to protect baddies. If it isnt hacking it isnt cheating. I'm sorry you learned to play EQ on emu and not live but some of us play a 15 year old game because we like it. Troll poster raged

Harrison
08-27-2011, 07:25 PM
Your post makes no sense, retard.

"lol I train to prevent exploiting of the system that protects baddies!"

Vile
08-27-2011, 07:41 PM
Vile, we've plugged ourselves into the glory land quite a few times haven't we dog? When all those african americans chasing us and shit.

Fo sho.

Galacticus
08-28-2011, 08:19 PM
http://www.filmsnobs.com/www/pics2/schmidt1.jpg

Dont you go calling people names...

Lasher
08-29-2011, 07:46 PM
Remember when you zoned low health and got back hps based off how much hp gear you had, if you had 400hps in hp gear and were below 400 health and zoned it would pop you up to 400

Macken
08-29-2011, 07:51 PM
we called it zoning dots.

Rushmore
08-29-2011, 08:13 PM
haha

Mrcurtloco
08-30-2011, 06:55 AM
Zone hoppin monks always got back to 25%, basterds!

Nirgon
08-30-2011, 04:44 PM
What about plugging when zoning to avoid a train on both sides? Hm?

Vile
08-30-2011, 05:13 PM
What about plugging when zoning to avoid a train on both sides? Hm?

time to die

Nirgon
08-31-2011, 03:36 PM
Constantly rezoning might become the flavor of the day. Not sure how that'd go with X people doing it constantly.

JayDee
08-31-2011, 03:47 PM
worked just fine on live

Nirgon
08-31-2011, 03:56 PM
Yeah but you could plug. Imagine someone doing this 15-20mins to avoid death. Now imagine multiple people etc..

Yukahwa
08-31-2011, 04:37 PM
Yeah it doesn't matter. They ran like a coward and avoided death..who cares. It just means you failed to kill them before they hit the zone.

Lasher
08-31-2011, 05:54 PM
no plugging will be lols. I definitly get plugged on more than i plug. Exp loss in pvp and no plugging obviously benefits one side more than the other

Crenshinabon
08-31-2011, 06:33 PM
no plugging will be lols. I definitly get plugged on more than i plug. Exp loss in pvp and no plugging obviously benefits one side more than the other

This. No plugging is one sided towards casters and gankers. Not to mention you have to plug sometimes to avoid being griefed. No plugging, find someone at bind, profit.

Xareth
09-01-2011, 12:23 AM
This. No plugging is one sided towards casters and gankers. Not to mention you have to plug sometimes to avoid being griefed. No plugging, find someone at bind, profit.

Another moronic post. Plugging is an exploit, plain and simple. All of the "advantages of plugging" debates are fucking stupid. Like arguing that in some specific instances it would be more favorable for you to be driving drunk.

Mrcurtloco
09-01-2011, 02:32 AM
Another moronic post. Plugging is an exploit, plain and simple. All of the "advantages of plugging" debates are fucking stupid. Like arguing that in some specific instances it would be more favorable for you to be driving drunk.

you mean like drunk drivers have a higher survival rate and lower injury rate upon collision?

yeah I guess thats not favorable...

Tombom
09-01-2011, 03:03 AM
you mean like drunk drivers have a higher survival rate and lower injury rate upon collision?

yeah I guess thats not favorable...

This man knows his shit.

Xareth
09-01-2011, 03:08 AM
Exactly like saying <what you said> as an argument for driving drunk.

JayDee
09-01-2011, 03:11 AM
you mean like drunk drivers have a higher survival rate and lower injury rate upon collision?

yeah I guess thats not favorable...

not when you pray for death every waking moment like Xareth bro

Mrcurtloco
09-01-2011, 04:22 AM
not when you pray for death every waking moment like Xareth bro


even all the Carlos Rossi you can drink wont save you from a jump off a cliff.

dont pray Xareth, drink and jump, better odds


also dont ferget "the top of line wine Carlos Rossi"

Nirgon
09-01-2011, 03:42 PM
Keep it :P

Xareth
09-01-2011, 09:49 PM
I prefer to drink and drink over any of that. Just keep drinking, problem solved.

Arclyte
09-01-2011, 10:49 PM
Sounds like it would be a pain in the ass to make workable (then again I know nothing about coding)

I vote put it on the backburner, and if it becomes even a slight problem, bring it to the fore.

Vondra
09-03-2011, 10:49 AM
Definitely against zone plugging. Anything that forces people to take a death they have coming is good to me. Dealt with similar things in many different games, whether mmorpg, MUD, or otherwise, and it was always really obnoxious.

Titanuk
09-04-2011, 06:14 PM
red99 out yet?

Kelsar
09-04-2011, 08:40 PM
If someone goes LD during zone (due to plugging or otherwise), force their character spawn on the other side for 30 seconds and auto-attack/cast if messed with (similar to an NPC). Problem solved.

gloinz
09-04-2011, 09:32 PM
Keep it :P

signed
its always been apart of eq that if you fail to kill a girlyman before said girlyman reaches zoneline then you fail to kill a girlyman

Nirgon
09-13-2011, 02:20 PM
signed
its always been apart of eq that if you fail to kill a girlyman before said girlyman reaches zoneline then you fail to kill a girlyman

Maybe the direction is unclear to me. Do you want to fix nuances in the previous system or try to create something that, for better or worse, was completely classic? Not sure what to say regarding some of these decisions if it is in line with the goal of the project.

greatdane
09-13-2011, 03:30 PM
I don't care too much. If I were in charge, I wouldn't bother implementing some great big anti-plugging mechanic. It doesn't have a direct influence on the actual fight, and if someone plugs from you, you've won anyway. Without yellow text and (hopefully) without itemloot, people won't be so hugely obsessed with landing the killshot anyway. I'm hoping many will be satisfied with making the guy run so hard he yanked the cord out of his modem. Those players will develop a rep and the plugging has its own consequence that way. If it got red99 released a week sooner, I'd take zone-plugging with a smile. It never got my panties in a bunch on live or VZTZ.

Wonton
09-13-2011, 07:28 PM
Why is it so much lols?
What I think is lame is that people with a faster comp have an obvious advantage when it comes to zoning. Taking out plugging is seriously fked up and if thats the case I wouldnt even make a melee.

To even out taking out plugging can you should make a minimum zone time for people with rediculous amounts of money to spend on a fast computer? Say minimum zone time is 15 - 20 seconds.

If they complete their zone, re zone, then I appear after he has already zoned I lose hands down. This would be 100% frustrating and to know that they can get away every time by doing that and I can't have any chance to escape is broken and frustrating.



Good point Creshinabon.

I am in favor of doing nothing about this issue because it seems like a waste of time. I can see how its a legitimate problem for slow pokes with slow computers and bad internet connections, so now I really think the actual best way (regardless) is to leave it as-is.

i am so subtle, tee hee hee

Wonton
09-13-2011, 07:33 PM
Turn up your virtual memory size and defrag your HD. You know what I meant -- people with faster computers generally have an advantage over those who don't in FPS....

i smell douche bag

Mardur
09-13-2011, 07:51 PM
Wonton please tell me you're playing here.

Wonton
09-13-2011, 07:53 PM
on red99? yeah

Ravenlof
09-13-2011, 08:33 PM
I don't care too much. If I were in charge, I wouldn't bother implementing some great big anti-plugging mechanic. It doesn't have a direct influence on the actual fight, and if someone plugs from you, you've won anyway. Without yellow text and (hopefully) without itemloot, people won't be so hugely obsessed with landing the killshot anyway. I'm hoping many will be satisfied with making the guy run so hard he yanked the cord out of his modem. Those players will develop a rep and the plugging has its own consequence that way. If it got red99 released a week sooner, I'd take zone-plugging with a smile. It never got my panties in a bunch on live or VZTZ.

aggred

Vile
09-13-2011, 09:50 PM
You dudes must know not about whole guild zone plugging tactics... w/e

Just release the fucking shit box already.

Xareth
09-14-2011, 12:42 AM
Yeah to what Vile said, and your entire last post is ridiculous Greatdane. If you don't actually kill someone you haven't won. So if zone plugging is legal...lol...then it's a viable tactic.

Screenshot or stfu

sineroth
09-18-2011, 02:20 AM
pluggin is a safety make it to the zone was and plug is almost like agate or sumfin for melee's i can see if they plug while not zoning thats not to fair if yer a warrior or sumfin but while zoneing i think its gay to change that
keep it more classic guys

Billbike
09-18-2011, 09:35 AM
I don't care about zone plugging. Not really a big deal.
If you zone plug, it's like tapping out. The other guy quit the fight, therefore I win.

Yukahwa
09-18-2011, 12:37 PM
I think the real problem comes from when an entire guild zones into an area and plugs..and then they all log in at once in that zone. I don't think that the rest of the game should be unclassicified and waste DEV time just to fix some raid guild problems though.

greatdane
09-18-2011, 03:59 PM
I don't feel that strongly about zoneplugging. People can't grief others by doing it and it doesn't make you win fights. "Fixing" zoneplugging would almost be equivalent to fixing the ability to bag gear before dying if there was itemloot. Losers zoneplug and get known for it. It's just one of those things.

Yukahwa
09-18-2011, 05:51 PM
Bagging gear isn't an issue either. If they aren't wearing the gear they aren't getting the benefits of it. If they make a habit of running away from fights and trying to bag, they will one day die with an item in their hand and it will be lootable and it will be a great victory.

People should be allowed to essentially "Hide" valuable gear inside the bags since it is the most convenient way to "hide" gear. Pretend that the backpack represents a nearby bush or a hole that the character stashed his valuable loots while he was running away.

When you kill him with the item on his curser, it is like you found that stash..congrats.

Item loot bagging isn't broken.

Zone plugging isn't broken.

Palemoon
09-19-2011, 08:51 PM
Making zone pluggers pop out the other side link dead for X amount of time is a good thing.

Vile
09-19-2011, 10:03 PM
Pretend that the backpack represents a nearby bush or a hole that the character stashed his valuable loots while he was running away.

I haven't smoked weed yet and this is fucking ridiculously retarded.

Vile
09-19-2011, 10:24 PM
I haven't smoked weed yet and this is fucking ridiculously retarded.

Now that I have enlightened myself.. I may look back and laugh, again.

Amuk
09-19-2011, 11:47 PM
tread carefully vile I called that guy a faggot for saying such things and got a ban warning in my inbox.

Not calling him a faggot again just warning vile so it doesnt happen to him.

Xareth
09-20-2011, 12:17 AM
Now that I have enlightened myself.. I may look back and laugh, again.

Tried it myself and I concur.


You said,

Item loot bagging isn't broken.

but it is not something that can be broken or working atm because it is not defined. So saying "item loot" is saying what? What version? Some versions would be broken and some would work.


tread carefully vile I called that guy a faggot for saying such things and got a ban warning in my inbox.

Not calling him a faggot again just warning vile so it doesnt happen to him.


Funny

Haul
09-20-2011, 04:04 AM
Wouldn't it put pure melee classes at even more of a disadvantage, since they really don't have a way of keeping their targets away from the zoneline.

Seems to me this system promotes pvp instead of allowing pvp avoidance, and forces people to choose their battles more carefully, as there may not be an 'easy out'. This is what you guys want, is it not?

This.

Vile
09-20-2011, 10:08 AM
tread carefully vile I called that guy a faggot for saying such things and got a ban warning in my inbox.

Not calling him a faggot again just warning vile so it doesnt happen to him.


good looks man.

just laughing at the idea of this dude imagining throwing his gear into a nearby bush so it doesn't get looted..

Yukahwa
09-20-2011, 11:29 AM
You guys should know that my goal is to say whatever possible to have an item loot server made so I can play it and enjoy it. There are some dudes that might think it just doesn't make sense to not loot items out of bags, so I offered that solution.

Haven't you seen cops? Running away and stashing your stuff totally works..heh.

Vile
09-20-2011, 11:47 AM
You guys should know that my goal is to say whatever possible to have an item loot server made so I can play it and enjoy it. There are some dudes that might think it just doesn't make sense to not loot items out of bags, so I offered that solution.

Haven't you seen cops? Running away and stashing your stuff totally works..heh.

And the cops always find the stash... so I should always get to loot whatever the fuck I want.

That is if they implemented item loot, but now we're straying off topic.. this thread is for zone plugging :)

jilena
09-20-2011, 02:02 PM
I am indifferent about zoneplugging. It's a bitch move but really zoning is so shitty in Everquest that people who have better machines/connections are going to be at a huge advantage in crossing over zones and being able to attack people who are freshly zoned with the game still loading on their screen.

Yukahwa
09-20-2011, 02:48 PM
That's what the ...heh was about. Since you are such an RP'er vile, pretend that when you die with an item still in your hand..the "cops" found your stash.

It totally works for RPer dudes like you Vile ; ) I played on discord and it was a blast. I wish there was enough active everquest population to support a server like that again. Anyone know if Apostle is still around?

Zone plugging - I think we have bigger fish to fry. Only time its a real real issue is when a whole guild does it at a raid target to jack an opposing guild. If anything, make players pop out as LD in these zones but in nowhere else.

Amuk
09-20-2011, 08:10 PM
What if shamans bring the drug dogs Yukahwa, stash ain't looken to safe behind that tree.

JayDee
09-20-2011, 10:00 PM
It totally works for RPer dudes like you Vile ; ) I played on discord and it was a blast. I wish there was enough active everquest population to support a server like that again. Anyone know if Apostle is still around?


and that is exactly why item loot won't work. consequences are too high for most people.

fuck, i might not even play either way, and tbh im probably more likely to play with item loot because i can log in a gank people before i log out. but in the end, that is not even worth it if only a handful of people are playing.

i am just looking out for the best interest of my *****s, like jesus. i will die for your sins and this is my judgement.

hotstud
10-08-2011, 02:25 AM
Originally I was excited for zone plugging being punished somehow but after playing the beta I think this is a horrible idea.

Not only are zones a way to "escape" from PvP which everyone hates but they also provide a blind spot in the game where none should exist. Zoning as a mechanic is obviously here to stay.

It's kind of unfair though that you would zone across and run into a group of gankers who are taking advantage of the fact that you can't see them before entering an area and will be out of control of your character for a couple seconds after exiting zone.

Zone plugging allows you to escape this situation. Oh zoned into a group of people camping the zone? Just zone back and pull plug.

Either zone plugging needs to be allowed or a mechanic needs to exist for safety after exiting a zone. Personally I would prefer that plugging just be allowed, it's classic.

If zone plugging is punished people are going to setup camp right on the other side of zones a lot more because there will be no escape from essentially running into an area blind and being stunned for a second before you can play again. It's like giving zone campers an added bonus enabling them to chase down people who otherwise would have zone plugged and turns zones into a mechanic that solely benefits gankers.

Something like a flag when you enter a zone based on when you were last in PvP might work. If you zoned after being cast on by another player you could be spawned if you pull plug or whatever, if you zone without having been cast on and then on the other side take damage you could zone back and pull plug without punishment if you do so within 10 seconds or something.

Harrison
10-08-2011, 09:07 AM
Chickenshit who wants to exploit detected.

Palemoon
10-08-2011, 10:06 PM
Ok so the "post your screenshot kills" thread is full of people zone plugging and storys of so and so zone plugging multiple times , etc.

Any status updates on getting the zone plugging "fix" enabled? Think it would be a good thing.

Tumdumm
10-09-2011, 12:52 AM
Ok so the "post your screenshot kills" thread is full of people zone plugging and storys of so and so zone plugging multiple times , etc.

Any status updates on getting the zone plugging "fix" enabled? Think it would be a good thing.

i did some research and have determined that the quoted statement is possibly exaggerated

i saw one story of perseverance against a multiple plugger
...its not like he's gonna pop into some other zone when he finally does wanna log back on... quit your job & quit bitchin imo

Lovely
10-09-2011, 01:24 PM
I've never zoned plugged and I never will but the current client makes me crash about 1/10 of the times I zone. So personally I'm all for zone plugging cause I'll get freaking furious if I crash and end up dying on the other side due to it. And making someone plug is even a greater achievement then killing them. Means they are SCURREDDD of you

Nirgon
10-10-2011, 09:58 AM
I've never zoned plugged and I never will

Lol we'll see

hotstud
10-10-2011, 10:05 AM
Chickenshit who wants to exploit detected.

Are you talking to me? Cause zone plugging isn't exploiting. First of all it's classic. Second of all, read my post.. zones are retarded. You shouldn't magically touch an invisible line which hides everything behind it and blinds and stuns you when you cross it.

Zone plugging is the only real option to make zones not completely retarded in PvP. No one wants to cross a zone line and see 5 people waiting on the other side already casting spells by the time you can control your character then be punished for zoning back and pulling plug.

I guarantee you if zone plugging is punished every fucking zoneline in the game will be camped because it gives you a HUGE advantage to starting a fight. No one can see if you're in the next zone, no one can see across the zone line, and you get to engage first for 3-5 seconds before they even know there is a fight and on top of all that now you get punished for using the one advantage a zone offers (leaving the game instantly)?

Punishing zone plugging only makes zoning extremely frustrating and nothing but a negative experience. Zone lines have to be in the game, don't leave the disadvantages while removing the advantages. This will also enable some bullshit ganking techniques. Have friends log out on one side of zone, you and friends camp other side. When someone zones over you engage and tell your friends to log in. Now you've created an inescapable trap using zone lines to give your gank squad an unfair advantage. Totally changes the dynamic of zoning and PvP.

P.S. Like I said a mechanic where zoning while not in PvP then immediately being engaged on other side that allows you to zone back immediately and plug without punishment would be fine. I'm all for punishing zone plugging where someone runs to a zone to escape PvP that started while they were playing. It does need to account for this specific situation though where you zone into a new area and are immediately attacked.

Null
10-10-2011, 05:07 PM
P.S. Like I said a mechanic where zoning while not in PvP then immediately being engaged on other side that allows you to zone back immediately and plug without punishment would be fine. I'm all for punishing zone plugging where someone runs to a zone to escape PvP that started while they were playing. It does need to account for this specific situation though where you zone into a new area and are immediately attacked.

Perhaps a /ready command that both players need to type before engaging in PvP?

Nirgon
10-10-2011, 05:11 PM
Group zones in, all crash. Players waiting on other side get free kills. Sounds smart to me right.

Envious
10-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Perhaps a /ready command that both players need to type before engaging in PvP?

Lol

Vile
10-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Perhaps a /ready command that both players need to type before engaging in PvP?

had to sig this.

pojab
10-10-2011, 09:15 PM
i think he makes a good point in that /anon should be removed.

hotstud
10-10-2011, 11:12 PM
i think he makes a good point in that /anon should be removed.

Honestly I would support this too. Anything that prevents zones from being a blind spot for gankers to hide behind. I'm actually kind of surprised all you leet PvPers here don't see the problem with punishing zone plugging while still leaving the obvious disadvantages that come from zoning into an area without being able to know whats ahead.

So right now zones are essentially a safe spot. You can zone dance or even zone plug.

Punishing zone plugging will just change zones from being safe spots into being death traps. It's not going to fix anything about zones being annoying it will just make them 10x more annoying.

This change will only ensure that on the issue of zones people are going to die a lot more. Not because they ran away but because zones will be the new "I win" button as you get to engage first and no one can zone away after you've nuked the shit out of them before they could even see what was happening.

So, that's fine.. everyone should die more, right? It's MUCH more frustrating to the killer when a victim zones away and pulls plug than it is to a victim who zones into a gank squad and now has no possible exit, right?

Well if the server is using that mentality why don't you add full corpse loot and max level range for attack, remove anonymous, no safety for level 1s, etc?

Perhaps a /ready command that both players need to type before engaging in PvP?

Pretty fucking retarded Null.. you guys are pandering to blue players with every rule then I point out that punishing zone plugging is too hardcore and will just turn the server and zones into a non-stop gank death festival and you try to pretend like I'm not hardcore enough. Hey bro, let me know when you're gonna stop putting in all the blue rules and I'll stop complaining about this new zone ganking bonus you're trying to add.

How about instead of a /ready command you not change a classic mechanic to reward people who camp on the other side of zone lines to take advantage of people being in game before they can even play? You're just SOOOO hardcore Null, you want so much PvP you're happy to have it happen when people aren't even in control of their character because of the zone mechanic and then instead of being able to safely get away by zoning back they should be popped out LD on the other side to guarantee a kill because they DARED CROSS A ZONE LINE.. FUCKING NEWBS, LLOLOLOLOL

Hows that full corpse loot and max level range coming along? I can't wait.

Sniperfire
10-11-2011, 02:41 AM
Perhaps a /ready command that both players need to type before engaging in PvP?
wow just wow maybe issue everyone helmets and kneepads

lethdar
10-11-2011, 04:08 AM
Honestly I would support this too. Anything that prevents zones from being a blind spot for gankers to hide behind. I'm actually kind of surprised all you leet PvPers here don't see the problem with punishing zone plugging while still leaving the obvious disadvantages that come from zoning into an area without being able to know whats ahead.

So right now zones are essentially a safe spot. You can zone dance or even zone plug.

Punishing zone plugging will just change zones from being safe spots into being death traps. It's not going to fix anything about zones being annoying it will just make them 10x more annoying.

This change will only ensure that on the issue of zones people are going to die a lot more. Not because they ran away but because zones will be the new "I win" button as you get to engage first and no one can zone away after you've nuked the shit out of them before they could even see what was happening.

So, that's fine.. everyone should die more, right? It's MUCH more frustrating to the killer when a victim zones away and pulls plug than it is to a victim who zones into a gank squad and now has no possible exit, right?

Well if the server is using that mentality why don't you add full corpse loot and max level range for attack, remove anonymous, no safety for level 1s, etc?



Pretty fucking retarded Null.. you guys are pandering to blue players with every rule then I point out that punishing zone plugging is too hardcore and will just turn the server and zones into a non-stop gank death festival and you try to pretend like I'm not hardcore enough. Hey bro, let me know when you're gonna stop putting in all the blue rules and I'll stop complaining about this new zone ganking bonus you're trying to add.

How about instead of a /ready command you not change a classic mechanic to reward people who camp on the other side of zone lines to take advantage of people being in game before they can even play? You're just SOOOO hardcore Null, you want so much PvP you're happy to have it happen when people aren't even in control of their character because of the zone mechanic and then instead of being able to safely get away by zoning back they should be popped out LD on the other side to guarantee a kill because they DARED CROSS A ZONE LINE.. FUCKING NEWBS, LLOLOLOLOL

Hows that full corpse loot and max level range coming along? I can't wait.

Whoa, this guy is mad.

hotstud
10-11-2011, 05:31 AM
Whoa, this guy is mad.

So mad brew. Everything I write sounds mad. It's my own personal skill. In reality I'm just trying to make it clear that enabling a zone plugging punishment is a complete game changer and from a game development standpoint there are multiple factors that need to be considered before such a decision is made.

Devs want to play amateur game developer but they're obviously not very good at it if issues like this are ignored and answered with, "Maybe we should have a /ready command." Yeah, thanks.. sticky a post asking for discussion on this mechanic then insult me for actually pointing something out.

What can I say though, I'm the guy who got banned for 5 months for saying something Nilbog said was bullshit. I've come to understand that this server is more summed up like, "We do whatever the fuck we want. Your opinion is meaningless. We only ask for it so we can tell you to STFU."

Darwoth
10-11-2011, 05:58 AM
how bout 2 min pvp flag, can not zone for 2 mins once you attack another player unless via channeling a gate etc.

this way people that engage someone and end up on the shit end of the fight can not just numlock to the zoneline and plug, and pussbags that spend all their time hauling ass anyway can continue to do so.



or, pvp flag timer for all but when zoning you have a 10 second buff similar to the xp loss protection buff that cancels out the flag. this will improve pvp by removing zoneplugging/zone hopping but prevent the zoning into a dozen people issue being complained about.


or just implement pvp flag timer and make it so you can /w all zones like you could in post kunark, makes that real simple.


personally none of this is a big enough issue for me to really care, it should probably just be left alone. has been to many non classic things added/changed already and with to much more im afraid that much of the intended playerbase will be alienated instead.

Nirgon
10-11-2011, 01:08 PM
You do know that some of these things while seemingly unfair and in need of adjustment were classic. You're suggesting that one mechanic with an exploitable element be replaced with another. Just leave it alone.

Rust1d?
10-12-2011, 09:05 AM
Tell me what % of pvp fights happen at the zoneline? 2-5%? I really see this as a non-issue. Someone zone plugs, move on.

Lovely
10-12-2011, 09:35 AM
I don't really think it's a big issue. I make people plug and zone dance everyday and I don't really care. Let them waste their time and try to get them next time instead. You pretty much achieved your goal when you make someone plug anyways.

Palemoon
10-12-2011, 09:57 AM
I don't really think it's a big issue. I make people plug and zone dance everyday and I don't really care. Let them waste their time and try to get them next time instead. You pretty much achieved your goal when you make someone plug anyways.

You can do that as a wizard with high burst damage.

But try a classic era melee where anyone can stroll to the zoneline and plug in the 5 hours it takes you to get them to half health.

I don't want to make my opponent plug, just so he can log back in 5 mins later and attack me again. I want him corpse running from his bind point.

Dontmez_Mebro
10-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Sounds like a good idea.

Arillious
10-20-2011, 11:03 AM
Honestly, we need to leave this issue alone. Pulling the plug is pretty classic and making someone pull the plug is kinda like making someone tap out in a MMA fight. It's almost more satisfcation then actually knocking them out/killing them.

Xareth
10-20-2011, 02:09 PM
how bout 2 min pvp flag, can not zone for 2 mins once you attack another player unless via channeling a gate etc.

When you mix EQ and drugs lots of crazy shit comes out.

gloinz
10-20-2011, 02:18 PM
Honestly, we need to leave this issue alone. Pulling the plug is pretty classic and making someone pull the plug is kinda like making someone tap out in a MMA fight. It's almost more satisfcation then actually knocking them out/killing them.

Vile
10-20-2011, 02:26 PM
Zone plugging is lame. Might not be the most important issue, but should be addressed eventually.

gloinz
10-20-2011, 02:49 PM
zone plugging is a classic mechanic that is fine leave it alone

Palemoon
10-20-2011, 04:08 PM
Its a way to bypass zone control. Needs to go.

Vile
10-20-2011, 04:36 PM
zone plugging is a classic mechanic that is fine leave it alone

Until a whole guild starts abusing it when they zone into zones like Hate/Fear/Seb..

georgie
10-20-2011, 04:42 PM
Until a whole guild starts abusing it when they zone into zones like Hate/Fear/Seb..

then they can just camp out. plugging is fine why are we adding more shit than is necessary

Vile
10-20-2011, 04:51 PM
then they can just camp out. plugging is fine why are we adding more shit than is necessary

You obviously don't follow. It's all good. See you nigs on the battlefields.

Macken
10-20-2011, 11:59 PM
Ever chased a guy who was zone dancing and you crash with 100% health and come back dead to the guy who was running for his dear life?

It's happened to me before. If it happens alot, expect alot of crying and a little quitting.

I hear there is alot of crashing going on currently.

Arillious
10-21-2011, 10:00 AM
Ever chased a guy who was zone dancing and you crash with 100% health and come back dead to the guy who was running for his dear life?

It's happened to me before. If it happens alot, expect alot of crying and a little quitting.

I hear there is alot of crashing going on currently.

This is a seperate issue, if there's a problem with crashing while zoning then that needs to be fixed anyways.

I see no point in spending a crap load of time on this issue when this is like it or not as classic as it gets. There will likely be bigger issues that arrise if any of the idea's in this thread are implemented.

Example: Making people appear on the other side LD: what about legit crashes?

Example 2: Not allowing people to zone at all: Obvious problems where you have no where to run to when NPC's get involved in pvp.

Lovely
10-21-2011, 10:06 AM
Keep the zone plugging due to the amount of crashes you get when you zone. There is nothing worse then zoning and crashing and logging back in dead.

Dontmez_Mebro
10-21-2011, 01:11 PM
zone plugging is a classic mechanic that is fine leave it alone
MY FONT IS BOLD AND UNDERLINED AS WELL AS LARGE AND IN ALL CAPS! I AM THE VICTOR IN THIS ARGUMENT!

Zone logging is an exploit, and should be punished.

Melveny
10-21-2011, 01:20 PM
Serious biznas!

Melveny
10-21-2011, 01:56 PM
Zone plugging should stay, especially with this dynamic system being abused. *Yes* I will plug from a red con abuseing dynamic pvp system.*Yes* I will plug from a Zerg fest that requires no skill ( 3-5+ vs 1 ). No matter how you spin it, removing Zone plugging will only help with grief style play and provide people no form of escape. The idea that plugging ruins pvp etc or makes pvp pointless etc. So does 6 vs 1, pointless pvp.


Sorry that people's Zerg is ruined, 6 v1 chain casting c.c spells until that one lands to steam roll, will not always provide you that kill.

Arillious
10-21-2011, 02:07 PM
Zone logging is an exploit, and should be punished.

If you have an idea what won't cause other, larger issue's then lets hear it.

Melveny
10-21-2011, 02:12 PM
If zone logging is an "exploit" why can it STILL be done on live to this day? It's classic and should stay. Not only Is it classic but it's like one of the very few features that survived the ever changing world of norrath and it's 20 expansions.

Dontmez_Mebro
10-21-2011, 02:19 PM
Zone plugging should stay, especially with this dynamic system being abused. *Yes* I will plug from a red con abuseing dynamic pvp system.*Yes* I will plug from a Zerg fest that requires no skill ( 3-5+ vs 1 ). No matter how you spin it, removing Zone plugging will only help with grief style play and provide people no form of escape. The idea that plugging ruins pvp etc or makes pvp pointless etc. So does 6 vs 1, pointless pvp.


Sorry that people's Zerg is ruined, 6 v1 chain casting c.c spells until that one lands to steam roll, will not always provide you that kill.

The dynamic thing is an issue, being outnumbered does not justify exploiting. Maybe you should learn to make friends and group up.

Obviously the server owner thinks it is a problem as well. Please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining

Melveny
10-21-2011, 02:22 PM
The dynamic thing is an issue, being outnumbered does not justify exploiting. Maybe you should learn to make friends and group up.

Obviously the server owner thinks it is a problem as well. Please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining

Hey Mr. Angry, read the post above yours. Your requesting a classic live feature to be removed. One of the only features to survive the entire history of Everquest, yet you refer to it as an exploit.

Just sayin.

Dontmez_Mebro
10-21-2011, 02:25 PM
I'm so angry! I'm gonna guess from your posts on how angry I am that you're 12 year old mentality can't handle a real discussion, and just ignore you completely. Have fun being angry when this gets implemented. I hope you enjoy your brief time on the server befor
e you ragequit.

Melveny
10-21-2011, 02:31 PM
I'm so angry! I'm gonna guess from your posts on how angry I am that you're 12 year old mentality can't handle a real discussion, and just ignore you completely. Have fun being angry when this gets implemented. I hope you enjoy your brief time on the server befor
e you ragequit.

Lol you obviously have no idea whom I am, but that is ok you will learn soon enough.

I'm trying to figure out which post of yours was consider a discussion? All I see is words spewed forth from your mouth, finger tips. You provide no logical arguement only simple statements of your "opinion". I can already tell your opinion is gold, maybe because I'm 12.

Better luck next time.


Future reference, you don't grief Melveny.

Dontmez_Mebro
10-21-2011, 08:00 PM
Well since I'm new, and we have similar join dates I would guess that you are nobody, but maybe you are some troll who was banned and has made a new account. I think that covers both possibilities. Fact is you're nobody. I'll be happy to T-Bag your withered corpse so you know who I am on release.

Melveny
10-21-2011, 08:04 PM
Lol this guy

Harrison
10-21-2011, 08:36 PM
zone plugging is a classic mechanic that is fine leave it alone

Confirmed exploiting pussy.

Clearrain
10-22-2011, 12:56 AM
Blizzy is a pussy

hotstud
10-23-2011, 04:35 PM
Confirmed exploiting pussy.

Confirmed no idea about game design or the definition of the word exploit.

Pudge
10-23-2011, 04:57 PM
....yea, thinking again about this, just leave it alone and let ppl plug.

Arillious
10-27-2011, 05:45 PM
In conclusion: The majority say leave it alone. Some other's say develope a system to prevent it. In my opinion, no solutions have been offered that don't cause other problems.

Dontmez_Mebro
10-27-2011, 08:37 PM
I don't like it but I think we all agree that there are other things you should work on first.

Rushmore
10-27-2011, 08:44 PM
Listen I play with the best zone pluggers in the game now.

But if you want it to be fair...

If someone goes Link dead because of plugging or a shitty connection (its almost 2012 no excuse for a shitty connection) you are unable to log back in for 10mins. Maybe even make it 15mins.

During raids this is a major problem when the whole guild you are fighting against plugs and you have to sit there constantly awaiting there return where otherwise you know you have 10mins to rally and kill the raid mob.

Just a thought.

Scailed
10-28-2011, 07:11 AM
So the guy with a 2.0GHz AMD has no advantage over your 350MHz Pentium-2 while playing a first-person shooter as you choke along at your frame rate of 4?

roflmao~ .... get job working anywhere... work 40 hours. buy any computer that came out within the last few years or the hardware to build it. ive seen the poorest ppl ever w computers that can 5box this old ass game....

what really got me was the guy who recommended a minimum zone time for ppl with ancient machines. rofl~ do something about it yourself

fyi, making a zone plugging prevention system would save ppl tons of time, especially for contested raid mobs. but at the same time, there def was strategy to it in grp pvp. im happy w/e the gms do, this server will be strong for years to come, they know how to keep their population satisfied =) very happy this server wasnt just a rumor

Dontmez_Mebro
10-28-2011, 12:21 PM
Listen I play with the best zone pluggers in the game now.

But if you want it to be fair...

If someone goes Link dead because of plugging or a shitty connection (its almost 2012 no excuse for a shitty connection) you are unable to log back in for 10mins. Maybe even make it 15mins.

During raids this is a major problem when the whole guild you are fighting against plugs and you have to sit there constantly awaiting there return where otherwise you know you have 10mins to rally and kill the raid mob.

Just a thought.

+1

Vohl
10-28-2011, 02:49 PM
Same concern here. I still occasionally go LD while zoning, then get the "temporary ban" message. It'd be nice if the solution involved dropping the IP ban approach and instead caused the account to immediately jump back on the LD character.

Galacticus
10-28-2011, 05:52 PM
Keep it real, Keep it classic, Keep it pvp.

Vohl
10-28-2011, 07:40 PM
Oddly enough, relogging back into an active LD character is classic. EQ originally disabled it due to a duplication bug where you'd relog and be able to loot a corpse if your LD toon died as you were zoning back in. The corpse would have all your gear, and you would as well.

gdg
11-02-2011, 10:24 PM
Is there a way to keep a 30 minute counter on people that LD? If they LD once.. and they login again in the next 30 minutes.... :and plug a second time: they stay in zone for 10 minutes as a free kill..

Everyone LD's from time to time.. Most of the time people that LD try to log back in after a few minutes and end up plugging 2, 3, 4 or more.. until the attackers get tired of waiting.

Kain
11-04-2011, 03:44 PM
I think with exp on the line, people are going to plug more often.

I'm against plugging but then again do I really want to lose 2 hours of grinding? :o

Glam
11-04-2011, 04:11 PM
Dont see the problem with plugging or LD.... you mad because you didnt get someone to kill?

just sit down and wait for him to logg in then if you most kill him or just go and find someone else..... what is the problem?

Tamiah2011
11-04-2011, 04:12 PM
Dont see the problem with plugging or LD.... you mad because you didnt get someone to kill?

just sit down and wait for him to logg in then if you most kill him or just go and find someone else..... what is the problem?

I see no point in unpluggin not like your lossing some item ..

Dontmez_Mebro
11-07-2011, 11:45 AM
You're just cheating people out of the plat they can loot from you.

Kelsar
11-07-2011, 12:11 PM
Just FYI - if you stream netflix while playing EQ you'll zone-crash far more frequently

Lovely
11-07-2011, 01:01 PM
I'm still crashing a lot :confused:

I always play windowed and I'm alt tabbed more then I'm in game. That might have something to do with it but... Every mana class gotta sit 5-15 min to regen up mana, not much else to do during that time.

Dete
11-08-2011, 03:27 AM
It doesn't really matter if red99 has zone plugging or not. However anyone who is trying to get it removed by calling it an exploit is deluding them selves. Having a personal dislike for something and calling it an exploit does not a valid argument make. Unless an actual EQ live developer is trolling these forums and can state one way or the other. Sure it may not have been initially intended but from what I have read they haven't done a single thing to that prevents a player from plugging. Nor have they commented saying they thought it was an exploit.

Now I played on Tallon Zek during my live days and even though there was some plugging I still had more fun with Everquest PvP than I have in any MMo since. PvP battles in EQ live were great, from the massive guild fights over bosses to the smaller group fights over camps. There was a real objective to these battles. Not just points or rankings, but fighting to get the better leveling spot or to get the better gear. These things would increase your chances of winning in your next encounter.

It can be a little disappointing when your chasing someone and they plug, so just find someone else to kill if your just out to PvP. If you were fighting over content just revel in the fact that you won because now that content is yours if you attacked them or you get to keep your content if they were the aggressors.

Naez 4.20
11-08-2011, 03:30 AM
not classic™

Silikten
11-12-2011, 05:34 PM
ex·ploit: verb (used with object)--to use selfishly for one's own ends: employers who exploit their workers.

zoning: verb--any continuous tract or area that differs in some respect, or is distinguished for some purpose, from adjoining tracts or areas, or within which certain distinctive circumstances exist or are established.

Think about it.

ignorance
11-20-2011, 03:50 PM
Less plugging is a good thing.
TZVZ PVP Vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbpAj4cX3JQ)
Two fights, two plugs.
That was common-place.

xblade724
11-20-2011, 04:19 PM
I believe system should be 1 minute until d/c. If they really ARE LD, 1 minute is more than enough time for the other combatant to zone through and kill

sineroth
11-24-2011, 10:41 PM
keep it real keep it classic IMO

juicedsixfo
12-01-2011, 03:42 PM
I always thought the rule was if you can't finish someone off before they zone (and possibly plug, or zone faster and run away), then you didn't get the kill. Move along. It's just part of the game.

Keep it Classic™

If we need to be focusing on anything it should be guards assisting.

Taluvill
12-01-2011, 05:31 PM
If we need to be focusing on anything it should be guards assisting.

xblade724
12-07-2011, 02:49 AM
You guys realize that this pvp server is NOT classic and far from it, yea? Why not implement and an anti-zone plug feature to better this server. Why make exp loss from kills all hardcore style and not classic but allow pansy plugging?

Autotune
12-07-2011, 03:09 AM
You guys realize that this pvp server is NOT classic and far from it, yea? Why not implement and an anti-zone plug feature to better this server. Why make exp loss from kills all hardcore style and not classic but allow pansy plugging?

should go one step further imo, if you are gonna make it hardcore, then all characters should be kicked and deleted by the server upon death.

Mardur
12-07-2011, 04:33 AM
I always thought the rule was if you can't finish someone off before they zone (and possibly plug, or zone faster and run away), then you didn't get the kill. Move along. It's just part of the game.

Keep it Classic™

If we need to be focusing on anything it should be guards assisting.

Picking this quote for new page~

Glam
12-07-2011, 11:00 AM
You guys realize that this pvp server is NOT classic and far from it, yea? Why not implement and an anti-zone plug feature to better this server. Why make exp loss from kills all hardcore style and not classic but allow pansy plugging?

you mad????

/Q is the best button in the game

xblade724
12-07-2011, 10:49 PM
ex·ploit: verb (used with object)--to use selfishly for one's own ends: employers who exploit their workers.

zoning: verb--any continuous tract or area that differs in some respect, or is distinguished for some purpose, from adjoining tracts or areas, or within which certain distinctive circumstances exist or are established.

Think about it.

^ This. It's not intended as part of the game for you to purposely disconnect in ways not built into the game. That is the same definition as hacking

"unofficial alternative or addition to a commercial program". This is an unofficial alternative to exiting the program. How is this any different from finding a way to make /q instantly boot you from the world? Isn't that the same thing, just exiting the program using an unofficial alternative?

Rust1d?
12-07-2011, 11:55 PM
Zone plugging and OOR range healing making me rethink playing this box.

Mexer
12-08-2011, 01:43 PM
Zone plugging and OOR range healing making me rethink playing this box.

For me its Zone Plugging, no Faction Assist ( Guards) and no body loot.

Bodyloot. People would think bout far more, befor jumping someone...

No offense, but calling this Emu "Classic" is like calling a pig Olivia Wilde.

gloinz
12-08-2011, 01:48 PM
For me its Zone Plugging, no Faction Assist ( Guards) and no body loot.

Bodyloot. People would think bout far more, befor jumping someone...

No offense, but calling this Emu "Classic" is like calling a pig Olivia Wilde.

zone plugging = classic

Rust1d?
12-08-2011, 01:50 PM
Didn't one of the boxes have it where once you zoned you could not zone for XX time or something?

Mexer
12-08-2011, 01:51 PM
zone plugging = classic

Untill they fixed it...

Fear was classic, Charm also,....untill they fixed it...

gloinz
12-08-2011, 01:51 PM
Untill they fixed it...

Fear was classic, Charm also,....untill they fixed it...

they never fixed it wtf r u talking about

Mexer
12-08-2011, 01:53 PM
Didn't one of the boxes have it where once you zoned you could not zone for XX time or something?

A good option. Engaged in PvP u shouldnt be able to Zone for a small time amount.

I hate those Zone dancing, its a fking time waste and ends in two ways.

They PLug, or u get them after 149 minutes of dancing and onehittingbeforhezoned.

Mexer
12-08-2011, 01:54 PM
they never fixed it wtf r u talking about

KI tooks over the toon after plugging,crashing.

gloinz
12-08-2011, 01:55 PM
KI tooks over the toon after plugging,crashing.

no, it did not dumb dumb

furthermore zone dancing is a valid tactic for dealin with casters who are wayyyy more powerful than you could be 1v1 as most melees, always has been

Mexer
12-08-2011, 02:04 PM
no, it did not dumb dumb

furthermore zone dancing is a valid tactic for dealin with casters who are wayyyy more powerful than you could be 1v1 as most melees, always has been

I played from 99 to close to 2002, and i am sure they changed it that way, at least for a short period of time. I remember a lot of fights near Oasis/Ro Zone Pluggers and woke up in a real tuff battle.

So, anyway, even if i would be wrong. The Threads Name is - Discuss, And i would prefer a System where Zone Plugging would be handled in a better way. My Opinion, take it , or leave it. Zone Dancing is a time waste and depends on Comp Speed/Ping.

bamzal
12-08-2011, 08:13 PM
KI tooks over the toon after plugging,crashing.

dumb.

I played from 99 to close to 2002, and i am sure they changed it that way, at least for a short period of time. I remember a lot of fights near Oasis/Ro Zone Pluggers and woke up in a real tuff battle.


What?

Softcore PK
12-09-2011, 11:55 PM
After playing this long, I've decided that people who plug should show up on the other side for a minute or so. It's not fair to the people who crash when they zone (like me sometimes), but this has become the norm for pvp near zonelines :/

Your group manages to wear 2 red cons down to less than 10%, and they plug. Then they don't have to lns from the fight, and come back a few minutes later with a few more of their friends (probably organized in vent). It's no fun :(

Salty
12-10-2011, 01:46 AM
I plugged 7 times.

2 times I was 10% health when I got back.

1 time a clutch dot dispell.



Plugging is for pros. My KDR is pro

Slave
12-10-2011, 02:50 AM
Zone plugging and OOR range healing making me rethink playing this box.

OOR healers are what made me transfer from RZ to SZ. Best server I ever played, in any game, ever.

Plugging should be shat upon whenever possible... but not sure we need a mechanic to do it for us, when we have R&F forum. With minimal exp loss and no item loot anyway, the plugger is effing themselves over more than if they'd just taken it like a real gamer.

Lemons
12-10-2011, 03:46 AM
yea, plugging is part of the game. not being able to plug is retarded.

right now pvp is 99.9% ganking, plugging should be aloud in this instance, and since u cant regulate when a plug is from gank or not, it shouldnt be put in. honestly plugging is part of the game, attacking near a zone line is a decision you make.

xblade724
12-10-2011, 07:08 AM
This server already isn't classic, so don't dismiss this:

Why allow people to be pussies and plug while zoning (NOT intended for this use, which is the pure definition of exploit), but you allow the game to show LD tags for those that innocently go LD instead of just keep them in the world where the player might have to think "hmmm... is he afk?" or it's simply a free kill/death/xp loss. Why are the people that really do go LD punished with a free kill for some douche and granted xp/coin loss while the true pansies zone dancing and pulling plug at end get away free? Does not make sense

Edit:
Yes, plugging is part of the game... but guess what, on classic it was ITEM/COIN loot, not exp loss!! I don't know why I didn't think of it before. It's not so bad if you die and you lose some coin and you know your items are all bagged (well, you hope anyways .. it's always fun when you think you bagged everything and you come back and lost your helm).

Yeah sooo... this may come back to changing to restricted item loot rather than exp loss - there'd be less plugging.

VanEyck
12-12-2011, 04:09 PM
I have zone plugged on exactly 2 occasions on red99, both times to escape a gank situation. I used to be very much against it, preferring to eat a death and coin loss instead of being a pussy. But now I'm not so sure and here's why.

1. Experience loss. As a casual hybrid experience is more precious than anything.

2. Ample oppurtuniies for pure casters to channel gate while under attack. If they can leave a fight, so can I.

3. Why should I die to a gank squad, wasting experience time and coin, when they could easily root me before I hit the ZL?

I no longer feel as though plugging is a cheap tactic for these reasons. Remove experience loss and nerf channelling and I probably wont resort to plugging.

Foreverman
12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
Here is my take on it if we could do it so if you are engaged in pvp you cant plug but if you are running from a gank or PK that you arent ready for you should be able to plug, with that said I have not yet plugged, i got my ass handed to me at zone line 6 or 7 times by a group of 4 but refused to plug. not saying it was smart but thats just the way i feel.
TL;DR??

If you engage pvp you shouldnt be able to run from it
If you are being ganked and have not engaged pvp you should be able to Plug ..i guess

Szeth
12-12-2011, 04:44 PM
Ok so what happens if you get ganked by 3 people, decide "Y'know I bet I can kill ONE of them, and then get away"

Is that then frowned upon? Seems like if you're ganked, only a moron stays to die, so if you can get away - by all means do it.

Silikten
12-13-2011, 03:48 PM
People need to zone out and be LD for the duration if they plug. That seems fair to me! I like how people stay in LD longer now, that was a great addition. But plugging needs to be the same. Just make them zone through :)

juicedsixfo
12-13-2011, 05:13 PM
Not to bitch or anything, but in my opinion this shouldn't even be a thread. It's always been the same and the only people that bitch are people who can't finish the job. Why are we messing with how the game operates as a program instead of implementing classic mechanics like fixing guards? This server has lost of a ton of first timers over that issue alone – I doubt anyone is quitting over people plugging.

Plugging/DQing is just part of the game, deal with it. Or sit on the other side for ~5 minutes like I do, they always come back too soon.

Foreverman
12-13-2011, 06:42 PM
Not to bitch or anything, but in my opinion this shouldn't even be a thread. It's always been the same and the only people that bitch are people who can't finish the job. Why are we messing with how the game operates as a program instead of implementing classic mechanics like fixing guards? This server has lost of a ton of first timers over that issue alone – I doubt anyone is quitting over people plugging.

Plugging/DQing is just part of the game, deal with it. Or sit on the other side for ~5 minutes like I do, they always come back too soon.

you have a valid point, i guess you can look at it that way.

xblade724
12-14-2011, 03:43 AM
Not to bitch or anything, but in my opinion this shouldn't even be a thread. It's always been the same and the only people that bitch are people who can't finish the job. Why are we messing with how the game operates as a program instead of implementing classic mechanics like fixing guards? This server has lost of a ton of first timers over that issue alone – I doubt anyone is quitting over people plugging.

Plugging/DQing is just part of the game, deal with it. Or sit on the other side for ~5 minutes like I do, they always come back too soon.



you have a valid point, i guess you can look at it that way.

wow, err, I agree. But I also believe this SHOULD be discussed again in the future.. perhaps after the guard fixes?

Morninx
12-18-2011, 01:46 PM
Plugging is CLASSIC.

Think I've heard this argument before.....??

Kill target before he zones...

xblade724
12-19-2011, 06:49 AM
Plugging is CLASSIC.

Think I've heard this argument before.....??

Kill target before he zones...

If you haven't noticed, this server is not classic 100%; very pick-and-choose. Apparently they thought Selos song is worth changing so now we die from a root when we do anything -- apparently that's cheaper than someone hunting near a zoneline and whenever in trouble, just dance to zoneline and pull the plug. This, ESPECIALLY, discourages what little melee classes we have on pvp in consideration with not being able to burst damage. Non-burst characters = never get a kill. Yea guys, because that's less cheap than Selos' bug , hmm?

nilbog
12-19-2011, 12:51 PM
Came here to look at new opinions about zone plugging, found complaining about bard issues.

Moving on.

Nirgon
12-19-2011, 01:41 PM
Came here to look at new opinions about zone plugging, found complaining about bard issues.

Moving on.

*Resolved* guard assist issues + harvest being in game + sword proc rate complaints, looking to move on to other improvements and fixes, found people who don't know how to play bard.

Maybe the h8rs can see how this system is starting to work. Maybe. After they L2P.

Slave
12-19-2011, 04:39 PM
*Resolved* guard assist issues + harvest being in game + sword proc rate complaints, looking to move on to other improvements and fixes, found people who don't know how to play bard.

Maybe the h8rs can see how this system is starting to work. Maybe. After they L2P.

Let's pick and choose everything, hell let's make our own game!! We can rename it Everquest for Fucking Idiots... oh wait they have that already, it is called World of Warcraft.

Then when we get tired of that, they can spend another few years developing a Classic server that we choose to spend our time on because it isn't yet ruined.