My encounter with Slidein

[Phildorex]

I have a 21 enchanter, Lewit. I was hunting gargoyles in OOT. Everything was going fine. Later, a level 40 wizard shows up named Slidein, from Lineage. He is quadding the specs.

I killed a gargoyle but had to take some hits to keep my pet alive. I went back to the little tree in the corner of the island to bandage myself. While bandaging, Slidein pulls a quad of specs right on top of me, and they instakill me.

Why would anyone pull a quad of specs right on top of another player, someone who is sitting in the "safe spot" in the corner of the island? At best, it's reckless and shows a complete lack of respect for other players.

I waited for at least an apology, but received nothing. I messaged him, and he decided to berate me and accuse me of intentionally messing up his quad in violation of the PnP rules. Pretty much every tell he send was rude and insulting. I had my swear filter on, so I didn't get all of his brilliance.

I told him I have screenshots and would post them. He encouraged me to post them and explain what happened. I've never posted in Rants and Flames before.

As you can see, I had just killed a gargoyle and was bandaging myself. You can see him casting then his specs attack me. My pet, a chanter sword pet, only attacks a mob after it hits me first, as you can see. I cannot offensively attack a mob with the pet. Following are all of our exchanges plus a screenshot that shows I died at the tree that's a safe spot on that island.

I am a member of "No Time to Rez", a permadeath guild. So, because of this reckless and obnoxious player, I have to delete my character due to no fault of my own. Back to square one.

[Ekco]

5 star RnF post

-5 stars for neither player knowing how undead aggro works.

[Phildorex]

I started bandaging before he pulled the specs right on top of me. Each bandage takes several seconds. I was in a safe spot. Please enlighten me - what did I do wrong to cause my death?

The specs aggroed to me, so clearly he was mistaken about them ignoring me unless I did something to them.

Is there any scenario where Slidein isn't 100 percent at fault?

[OriginalContentGuy]

All I can think to say even though Slidein clearly ignorant is sorry you don't got time to rez.

[Ekco]

i don't think there is a safe way to kite spectres if a lower level player is doing gargs, same way spectres or sand giants pulled near docks would always stop to smoke people sitting or standing there before resuming chasing the person that initially pulled them

[Ekco]

in oasis*

[usmcjdking]

I need to know what happened between Steamfont and zoning into GFay,

This is the missing piece.

but yeah you got trained

[chillybob]

OP got social aggro'd to the face and met his first p99 schizophrenic... well done

RIP LEWIT

[Phildorex]

I need to know what happened between Steamfont and zoning into GFay,

This is the missing piece.

but yeah you got trained

After dying, my gnome went back to bind point in Steamfont. I think I sent him a one word tell "why?" upon dying. He didn't respond.

I was running back to the BB docks, so I immediately zoned to LFay then GFay. I sent the 2nd tell when I zoned to GFay, and that's when he first responded. Our entire conversation is in the post.

[Swish]

Chillogan did this to me on the Oasis spectres once, I haven't forgotten.

[tycohunden]

Who even quads spectres! You quad dorfs in BB dammit! To 49! Don’t worry, that wizard will never get myga blood with that game sence. Spectres are there for melee classes or derpy ass shamans

[sammoHung]

Lineage is trash. They claim to be casual friendly - but they are chock full of the same ilk of no-life, antisocial people as the other "big" raid guilds.

Sorry about your reroll, OP. The only way to avoid assholes in this game is by not playing.

Good post, though. I will treat Sildein with the respect he deserves, anytime I see him.

[kjs86z2]

Finally a RnF that truly delivers.

I guarantee he saw your guild tag and deliberately attempted to kill you.

Next time hide your guild tag.

10/10 tho.

[Tann]

/guildstatus "players name"

no one can hide!

[cd288]

Slidein is clearly a newb and talking out his ass. The annoying part about the OOT camp is if someone is out there killing gargoyles and you want to quad the specs you have to be aware of their location at all times because your kite will get disrupted if you accidentally drag the specs within aggro range of that person sitting to med, etc.

Technically he's the one who broke the rules by training you unless you deliberately put yourself in range of his kite in order to mess with it (which it seems you did not).

[kjs86z2]

If I was doing a permadeath run it sure as hell wouldn't involve being in that zone.

[cd288]

I've always thought permadeath shouldn't count deaths that result from blatant griefing like this. Should be fault of your own/groupmates. Blatant training shouldn't count.

[Phildorex]

Technically he's the one who broke the rules by training you unless you deliberately put yourself in range of his kite in order to mess with it (which it seems you did not).

I'll address this strange possibility that I intentionally killed off my character, which I took weeks to level up and would have to delete after dying, just so I could inconvenience him:

The corner of the island with the little tree is where I sat between pulls. When Slidein showed up, he sat right behind me, so he was fully aware this was the spot I was sitting in.

When he first showed up, I killed a few gargs while he was medding, then I left for about 10 minutes to sell to vendors and drop some weight.

I came back the the exact same spot, and he was finishing a quad when I got back. While he sat at the tree medding, I killed 3 more gargs, pulling each one to that same area - right in front of him - he saw all 3 fights and apparently started his quad as I wrapped up fight #3. The specs that he pulled on top of me were literally the first quad he did after I returned. He knew I was there.

Either he is extremely stupid and doesn't know that specs will kill people in range (which is possible from his responses), or he intentionally killed me. This was literally his first opportunity to kill me.

As I said - best case scenario is that he is reckless and hates other players.

[Phildorex]

There's something else I notice when I revisit Slidein's tells. He was using a staff of temperate staff. Lower element is not an AE spell. Level 40 is too low to single pull a spec - you cast at one, and the other three will all aggro immediately. It would have been very difficult for him to single out each spec and use the staff on it - they all look the same. Of the four specs he pulled on top of me, clearly two were attacking me - the pet communications reveal that. He only had aggro on one, two tops. The rest were social.

He's either REALLY stupid, or this was intentional.

[deathusurper]

Slidein sounds like a jerk.

[WarpathEQ]

You know what they say...Stupid is as stupid does

[kjs86z2]

I'd prob call that death a mulligan man.

You haven't deleted yet, right?

At least take all the plat / gear off.

[cd288]

There's something else I notice when I revisit Slidein's tells. He was using a staff of temperate staff. Lower element is not an AE spell. Level 40 is too low to single pull a spec - you cast at one, and the other three will all aggro immediately. It would have been very difficult for him to single out each spec and use the staff on it - they all look the same. Of the four specs he pulled on top of me, clearly two were attacking me - the pet communications reveal that. He only had aggro on one, two tops. The rest were social.

He's either REALLY stupid, or this was intentional.

Doesn't seem to be a reason for it to be intentional. Seems like he just doesn't understand aggros mechanics for the Spectres and how they will attack the person sitting/bandaging if pulled past them within aggro range, before returning to attack him.

It's odd he made it this far without understanding the game's mechanics.

[sammoHung]

It's odd he made it this far without understanding the game's mechanics.

That's a lot of players these days. Instead of exploring on their own, they pull up the wiki for the "Soandso's wizard kiting guide" and just follow it to a T.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Nice day in the park?

Not if you play an enchanter. Tried to rest once after a game of Frolf, gang of Shadow Men came at me from clear across the park.

Post just proves enchanter sit aggro is real.

[Zuranthium]

You deserved to die and things like this are what make the game alive. EQ is supposed to be a dangerous world where something wild might happen at any given time. Stop whining.

You should have been paying attention to your surroundings, and probably should have been sitting at the water's edge. If you can't see that a bunch of specters are coming your direction, and moreover if you don't move in response, that's your fault.

[Phildorex]

You deserved to die and things like this are what make the game alive. EQ is supposed to be a dangerous world where something wild might happen at any given time. Stop whining.

You should have been paying attention to your surroundings, and probably should have been sitting at the water's edge. If you can't see that a bunch of specters are coming your direction, and moreover if you don't move in response, that's your fault.

If I'm driving on the highway and a drunk driver crosses the line and kills me, that's my fault.

[WarpathEQ]

The more I think about this the more impressed I am that there were 2 people in OOT trying to kill on spectre isle at the same time in the year 2026

[Ekco]

2 people in OOT
drama being posted in RnF

shit's lookin up fam

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

we're so fucking back

[kjs86z2]

You deserved to die and things like this are what make the game alive. EQ is supposed to be a dangerous world where something wild might happen at any given time. Stop whining.

You should have been paying attention to your surroundings, and probably should have been sitting at the water's edge. If you can't see that a bunch of specters are coming your direction, and moreover if you don't move in response, that's your fault.

uh huh

so this logic applies to the raid scene too?

get off the tracks, amirite?

(you may be the winner of dumbest poster left on this forum)

[Zuranthium]

so this logic applies to the raid scene too?

You shouldn't use the word logic when your brain isn't capable of processing high level thought.

The policy should be the same there, although raids are obviously a different environment, and since the playerbase cares more about pixel farming than playing an actual game, obviously there is an urge to have more structure within the raid scene, as compared to the gameplay than can be expected when exping in a random outdoor zone.

If I'm driving on the highway and a drunk driver crosses the line and kills me, that's my fault.

Everquest isn't a public service road with lines on it. It's an open world game and anyone is allowed to move within the space however they want. Sure, if someone is nonstop going out of their way to follow you around and pull MOBs on top of you, then you'd have a case. Anything else is you as a player failing in some way, if you get aggroed.

Awareness and movement are the basis of what makes someone a good player in a game like this. Unless you are purposefully AFKing (which is an inherent risk), you should be looking at your surroundings at all times and reacting quickly. It's not hard to see MOBs moving towards you in an open area. If you didn't bother to look around and just sit there while MOBs are coming towards you, that's your mistake as a player.

If this game was coded correctly and operated as it was intended, then monsters should be unpredictably spawning and attacking players anyway. Players running MOBs around in a given area and changing the "expected" pathing is simply another facet of a living game world that should already exist in the first place.

[OriginalContentGuy]

uh huh

so this logic applies to the raid scene too?

get off the tracks, amirite?

Yeah like he can afford tracks.

[sammoHung]

Everquest isn't a public service road with lines on it. It's an open world game and anyone is allowed to move within the space however they want. Sure, if someone is nonstop going out of their way to follow you around and pull MOBs on top of you, then you'd have a case. Anything else is you as a player failing in some way, if you get aggroed.

Lots of bullshit followed this - but a train is defined as when a player moves a mob off of their spawn and drags it across another player and the mob aggros the player.

So take the rest of your longwinded big-brained nonsense TFO here. It was a train.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Not a train.

A shitty situation with a general lack of awareness on all parts.

But not a train.

[sammoHung]

Not a train.

A shitty situation with a general lack of awareness on all parts.

But not a train.

Most definitely was a train.

Was it intentional? Doesn't sound like it.

But intention does not define a train. A train is when mobs are dragged off of their spawn and across the path of another player, and aggro the player.

This is cut and dry. The difference in the PnP is they rule against INTENTIONAL trains.

[kjs86z2]

Zuranthium is a lolcow

[Neno]

Most definitely was a train.

Was it intentional? Doesn't sound like it.

But intention does not define a train. A train is when mobs are dragged off of their spawn and across the path of another player, and aggro the player.

This is cut and dry. The difference in the PnP is they rule against INTENTIONAL trains.

You can train your kite over someone, but that doesn't make the kite a train.

[kjs86z2]

trains are fine til someone dies

[WarpathEQ]

The best part of all of this is I don't think either of these players know about 3rd person view. Pretty sure they are both playing exclusively in first person and have no clue what's going on.

[sammoHung]

You can train your kite over someone, but that doesn't make the kite a train.

A kite is a train once it crosses paths with another player and gets that player aggro.

Any time you bring mobs off of their spawn and across another player and that player gets aggro, it's a train. Doesn't matter if its a kite, you're taking them for a walk, or they are stalking you because they saw your bikini pictures on Instagram.

Moving mobs off their spawn and causing them to aggro other players is a train.

[WarpathEQ]

A kite is a train once it crosses paths with another player and gets that player aggro.

Any time you bring mobs off of their spawn and across another player and that player gets aggro, it's a train. Doesn't matter if its a kite, you're taking them for a walk, or they are stalking you because they saw your bikini pictures on Instagram.

Moving mobs off their spawn and causing them to aggro other players is a train.

Historically this is not at all how a train has been defined. Otherwise people could exploit this to convert 100% of any kites that occur in the game into trains and weaponize it to elicit punishments for kiters.

[sammoHung]

Historically this is not at all how a train has been defined. Otherwise people could exploit this to convert 100% of any kites that occur in the game into trains and weaponize it to elicit punishments for kiters.

This IS, historically, how trains have been treated.

If you move a mob off of its spawn, you are responsible for its behavior after the fact.

That's why when you kite something, you have to put aggro into it, so that someone can't mess it up by sitting in its path.

This is simple shit, I can't believe how many posters on here are out of the loop on how the mechanics work and how the rules work.

[sammoHung]

Maybe I'm the only person around here that was threatened with suspension for pulling with an Eye of zomm - because someone came along and sat in the mobs path towards me and then petitioned me when they got killed.

And that's how the GM at the time broke it down to me, almost word for word.

"If you move a mob off of its spawn, its now your responsibility to make sure it doesnt kill an innocent bystander on its way to you"

[WarpathEQ]

That's why when you kite something, you have to put aggro into it, so that someone can't mess it up by sitting in its path.

This is simple shit, I can't believe how many posters on here are out of the loop on how the mechanics work and how the rules work.

Slidein confirmed. Funny how your logic follows the exact logic of the target of the thread and yet here were are 5 pages deep in a rant and flame about it.

That may be your belief but in the multiple years that I've been here I have yet to see one outcome of a kite align with your definition. Putting agro into a mob doesn't 100% equate to it ignoring people sitting in its path. Just like getting low health doesn't 100% equate to pulling a mob off a tank. There are thresholds.

If your perspective is that everyone else is out of the loop at some point you have to look at the loop and understand that you are the common denominator.

[OriginalContentGuy]

Well I mean in a wrong way you're right.

[Rygar]

Entirely possible they aggroed you because you were bandaging, which a mob maybe adds to their hate list as they view it as 'heal agro' and then since you were low health you got low-hp agro. Perhaps a P99 glitch or classic, not sure if anyone can test.

If you had full health and he ran them over perhaps nothing would have happened. Could be ruled as accidental

[Zuranthium]

If you move a mob off of its spawn, you are responsible for its behavior after the fact.

Absolutely not. What a stupid idea.

Each player is responsible for their OWN positioning and safety. If you are sitting in the path of a MOB as it walks around or as it is chasing another player, THAT IS YOUR FAULT. Move your ass out of the way. Pay attention. React to your surroundings. Engage with the game. The game is not supposed to be "sit in a safe spot and kill a static MOB with no risk".

If you are in any zone with a MOB that can aggro you, then inherently you are at risk. That risk should be much higher than what it currently is, but unfortunately this game is stuck with poorly coded MOBs, so the playerbase isn't being challenged like they should be. MOBs pathing "unexpectedly" as a result of them chasing another player - that is simply how the game should always be anyway. Nobody is entitled to a safe spot in Everquest, and needing to constantly move around and adapt is supposed to be a primary aspect of the gameplay.

[OriginalContentGuy]

Wait we are still talking about pixels right? Because I agree with Zuran's last post strongly and not just because it's written in complete sentences with effort towards consistency.

[OriginalContentGuy]

Sam I missed you saying that and since you are up mornings hola but respectfully that's whack.

[OriginalContentGuy]

Is this still a controversy that OP would resolve? If not hoocars filed under vegetables.

[kjs86z2]

Absolutely not. What a stupid idea.

Each player is responsible for their OWN positioning and safety. If you are sitting in the path of a MOB as it walks around or as it is chasing another player, THAT IS YOUR FAULT. Move your ass out of the way. Pay attention. React to your surroundings. Engage with the game. The game is not supposed to be "sit in a safe spot and kill a static MOB with no risk".

If you are in any zone with a MOB that can aggro you, then inherently you are at risk. That risk should be much higher than what it currently is, but unfortunately this game is stuck with poorly coded MOBs, so the playerbase isn't being challenged like they should be. MOBs pathing "unexpectedly" as a result of them chasing another player - that is simply how the game should always be anyway. Nobody is entitled to a safe spot in Everquest, and needing to constantly move around and adapt is supposed to be a primary aspect of the gameplay.

thats not how p99 works buddy

you are bad

[Wayward]

Absolutely not. What a stupid idea.

Each player is responsible for their OWN positioning and safety. If you are sitting in the path of a MOB as it walks around or as it is chasing another player, THAT IS YOUR FAULT. Move your ass out of the way. Pay attention. React to your surroundings. Engage with the game. The game is not supposed to be "sit in a safe spot and kill a static MOB with no risk".

If you are in any zone with a MOB that can aggro you, then inherently you are at risk. That risk should be much higher than what it currently is, but unfortunately this game is stuck with poorly coded MOBs, so the playerbase isn't being challenged like they should be. MOBs pathing "unexpectedly" as a result of them chasing another player - that is simply how the game should always be anyway. Nobody is entitled to a safe spot in Everquest, and needing to constantly move around and adapt is supposed to be a primary aspect of the gameplay.

LQCU36pkH7c

[Anonymous]

sildaen is bad at kiting, but im on his side about the permadeath reroll.

if ur gonna try permadeath, it's always your fault if you die. #1 thing is to not put yourself in situations where you could die.

that camp has to be the easiest camp in all of norrath to accidentally die in.

free sildaen

[Castle2.0]

Typical <Lineage> lol

[Zuranthium]

thats not how p99 works buddy

Yes it is. Learn to play. Or just keep getting aggroed and dying. Up to you.

[chillybob]

Chillogan did this to me on the Oasis spectres once, I haven't forgotten.

burn him at the stake

[Owlmeat]

There's something else I notice when I revisit Slidein's tells. He was using a staff of temperate staff. Lower element is not an AE spell. Level 40 is too low to single pull a spec - you cast at one, and the other three will all aggro immediately. It would have been very difficult for him to single out each spec and use the staff on it - they all look the same. Of the four specs he pulled on top of me, clearly two were attacking me - the pet communications reveal that. He only had aggro on one, two tops. The rest were social.

He's either REALLY stupid, or this was intentional.

Doesn't sound intentional, but, he should never have brought them near you. Him not using the flux staff on all 4 is exactly why it aggro'd you. That's what I came here to speculate. If you are gonna quad near other people you have to make sure you have hate from all 4 otherwise if they get loose it's on you. He's at fault, and doesn't understand how aggro works in the game.

[Reiwa]

Doesn't sound intentional, but, he should never have brought them near you. Him not using the flux staff on all 4 is exactly why it aggro'd you. That's what I came here to speculate. If you are gonna quad near other people you have to make sure you have hate from all 4 otherwise if they get loose it's on you. He's at fault, and doesn't understand how aggro works in the game.

How much flux staff does it take to overcome blood agro?

[Goregasmic]

Absolutely not. What a stupid idea.

Each player is responsible for their OWN positioning and safety. If you are sitting in the path of a MOB as it walks around or as it is chasing another player, THAT IS YOUR FAULT. Move your ass out of the way. Pay attention. React to your surroundings. Engage with the game. The game is not supposed to be "sit in a safe spot and kill a static MOB with no risk".

If you are in any zone with a MOB that can aggro you, then inherently you are at risk. That risk should be much higher than what it currently is, but unfortunately this game is stuck with poorly coded MOBs, so the playerbase isn't being challenged like they should be. MOBs pathing "unexpectedly" as a result of them chasing another player - that is simply how the game should always be anyway. Nobody is entitled to a safe spot in Everquest, and needing to constantly move around and adapt is supposed to be a primary aspect of the gameplay.

This.

Once I got trained in KC and zoned the mobs and when I reached entrance there was some doorknob sitting AFK at the T between zone in and zone out. Of course he got killed and technically I trained him but he's also a dumbass for sitting there AFK. Felt bad but shrugged it off, if you have an ounce of game sense you know it is like the last place in the game you should sit if you don't want to die but according to people in this thread he's entirely in his right to sit there and nothing bad should happen to him ever.

[Defo]

This.

Once I got trained in KC and zoned the mobs and when I reached entrance there was some doorknob sitting AFK at the T between zone in and zone out. Of course he got killed and technically I trained him but he's also a dumbass for sitting there AFK. Felt bad but shrugged it off, if you have an ounce of game sense you know it is like the last place in the game you should sit if you don't want to die but according to people in this thread he's entirely in his right to sit there and nothing bad should happen to him ever.

I think the difference is that the KC exit is well known for having trains come out. Like Velks, Mistmoore, Unrest, or any of the popular dungeons with only one escape route.

[cd288]

This.

Once I got trained in KC and zoned the mobs and when I reached entrance there was some doorknob sitting AFK at the T between zone in and zone out. Of course he got killed and technically I trained him but he's also a dumbass for sitting there AFK. Felt bad but shrugged it off, if you have an ounce of game sense you know it is like the last place in the game you should sit if you don't want to die but according to people in this thread he's entirely in his right to sit there and nothing bad should happen to him ever.

I don't really see how this is analogous. In the KC situation, there's literally only one place to run your train. The one zone line.

In this situation, it's a quad kite. And while the island is not large, if you're sitting out on that spit of land there's really no reason a quadder would need to quad over it. Quadder can easily avoid running their mobs over people. What you're arguing is like saying it's okay for someone kiting a Sand Giant or the Spectres in Oasis to run them over P1 and the docks and kill everyone. It has always been the case that you are responsible for the mobs in your quad once you begin it. If you run them through someone when you could avoid it, that's on you.

[Wayward]

I don't really see how this is analogous. In the KC situation, there's literally only one place to run your train. The one zone line.

In this situation, it's a quad kite. And while the island is not large, if you're sitting out on that spit of land there's really no reason a quadder would need to quad over it. Quadder can easily avoid running their mobs over people. What you're arguing is like saying it's okay for someone kiting a Sand Giant or the Spectres in Oasis to run them over P1 and the docks and kill everyone. It has always been the case that you are responsible for the mobs in your quad once you begin it. If you run them through someone when you could avoid it, that's on you.

Stop trying to logic with these folks. So many fools on here, that "know" they're right, despite the obvious evidence against it. Must be nice to be so willfully ignorant and plain obtuse.

[bluntfang]

so we're using ai to rage bait right?

[Anonymous]

so we're using ai to rage bait right?
Bluntfang, I have to hand it to you—fourteen years of forum posting about a 17-year-old emulator for a 27-year-old elf simulator is a level of commitment most people only achieve in careers or long-term relationships. At this point you’re not even part of the community, you are the legacy system. If someone archived the forums, historians would probably assume you were a built-in NPC designed to explain why nothing should ever be updated.

What’s fascinating is how every thread somehow loops back to you explaining, again, why the most inconvenient, brittle setup imaginable is actually the “correct” one. It’s like watching someone defend dial-up internet because the connection noise builds character. You don’t just resist improvements—you treat them like personal attacks, as if smoother performance might somehow erase the last fourteen years of muscle memory you’ve mistaken for expertise.

Honestly, the wildest part is that you’re still arguing like there’s something at stake here. This isn’t a competitive scene, there’s no prize pool, and nobody’s taking your title as Grand Arbiter of Elf Simulator 1999 Emulation Fidelity. The only thing on the line is whether new people bounce off immediately or stick around—and you’ve been doing a stellar job making sure they don’t.

[Ekco]

so we're using ai to rage bait right?

i'm using AI to construct threat matrices and collapse all alt forum accounts into single entities of all users.

https://i.imgur.com/yQSdrGX.png

I'm the p99 Palantir, and Kaia has given you all a social credit score

spoiler alert, it ain't good.

[WarpathEQ]

I don't really see how this is analogous. In the KC situation, there's literally only one place to run your train. The one zone line.

In this situation, it's a quad kite. And while the island is not large, if you're sitting out on that spit of land there's really no reason a quadder would need to quad over it. Quadder can easily avoid running their mobs over people. What you're arguing is like saying it's okay for someone kiting a Sand Giant or the Spectres in Oasis to run them over P1 and the docks and kill everyone. It has always been the case that you are responsible for the mobs in your quad once you begin it. If you run them through someone when you could avoid it, that's on you.

Also wildly not analogous as the OP scenario involves kiting around the perimeter of an island and your analogy involves leaving that island completely, crossing a large barrier of water, getting across to land, crossing completely over that body of land, finding another body of water, and determining the best path to kite is a straight line along a body of water that is a known camp spot for lowbies.

Using a true comparable I think we would all agree that if someone kiting spectres in OOT pulled the spectres, dragged them to the island where the dock is or to the AC camp spot, a place where people are known to camp AFK and proceeded to kite by dragging the mobs over those people who were sitting there is training them.

At the same time I think we can all agree that if the lowbies in Oasis decided to form their camp along the perimeter of Spectre Island instead of the piller and the person that was there kiting spectres dragged mobs around the perimeter of the spectre isle to kite them like normal that it is not their fault that some random lowbies decided to sit in a wildly dangerous area.

Thank you for this class on how trains actually work

[WarpathEQ]

#ThreadComplete

[cd288]

Also wildly not analogous as the OP scenario involves kiting around the perimeter of an island and your analogy involves leaving that island completely, crossing a large barrier of water, getting across to land, crossing completely over that body of land, finding another body of water, and determining the best path to kite is a straight line along a body of water that is a known camp spot for lowbies.

Using a true comparable I think we would all agree that if someone kiting spectres in OOT pulled the spectres, dragged them to the island where the dock is or to the AC camp spot, a place where people are known to camp AFK and proceeded to kite by dragging the mobs over those people who were sitting there is training them.

At the same time I think we can all agree that if the lowbies in Oasis decided to form their camp along the perimeter of Spectre Island instead of the piller and the person that was there kiting spectres dragged mobs around the perimeter of the spectre isle to kite them like normal that it is not their fault that some random lowbies decided to sit in a wildly dangerous area.

Thank you for this class on how trains actually work

Except that's not what the staff would say, so this argument is irrelevant.

[Wayward]

At the same time I think we can all agree that if the lowbies in Oasis decided to form their camp along the perimeter of Spectre Island instead of the piller and the person that was there kiting spectres dragged mobs around the perimeter of the spectre isle to kite them like normal that it is not their fault that some random lowbies decided to sit in a wildly dangerous area.



No, if the lowbies decided to camp within aggro range of the Spectre's spawns it would be their fault.

Someone else here said it, but the rule has always been once a mob has been moved from it's spawn point (unless it's a roamer), any accidental or intentional player deaths caused by that are considered trains.

Static mobs won't aggro anybody if nobody's in aggro range. It's not until a player moves them from that point. This has historically applied to raid content, but it can be extended to normal content as well.

Whether the train is intentional or not is another argument, but re-defining a train based on intention is stupid. There's accidental trains, which is seems like what OPs initial problem was (compounded by a dickhead player who can't admit to accidentally training someone and apologizing) and then there's intentional trains like Chortles epic Howling Stones train that got him banned.

[Wayward]

Train is just a term, it's not a judgement. It's called a train because the mobs follow the player like cars follow the engine of the train. Dorks

[Anonymous]

i'm using AI to construct threat matrices and collapse all alt forum accounts into single entities of all users.

https://i.imgur.com/yQSdrGX.png

I'm the p99 Palantir, and Kaia has given you all a social credit score

spoiler alert, it ain't good.
My score is zero.

*ignites cloth wrapped around bottle*

[cd288]

No, if the lowbies decided to camp within aggro range of the Spectre's spawns it would be their fault.

Someone else here said it, but the rule has always been once a mob has been moved from it's spawn point (unless it's a roamer), any accidental or intentional player deaths caused by that are considered trains.

Static mobs won't aggro anybody if nobody's in aggro range. It's not until a player moves them from that point. This has historically applied to raid content, but it can be extended to normal content as well.

Whether the train is intentional or not is another argument, but re-defining a train based on intention is stupid. There's accidental trains, which is seems like what OPs initial problem was (compounded by a dickhead player who can't admit to accidentally training someone and apologizing) and then there's intentional trains like Chortles epic Howling Stones train that got him banned.

Again, your example isn't analagous. Where OP sat on the Garg island is nowhere near as close to the Spectre spawns like sitting by the tower in Oasis would be. I have spent plenty of time on that island. It's completely easy to be aware of where other players are and not quad over them. The staff have always ruled that if you quad you have to be aware of where the players in the area are.

In this case, OP actually made it easier on the guy because he went and sat far out on the edge of the island away from everything. He wasn't out killing gargoyles. Point being, if some lowbie is killing Gargs and you quad the Spectres and run them through the lowbie and he dies, the staff will blame you for it plain and simple. Your opinion on it isn't relevant, it's just the rule.

At any rate, to take this back to the original discussion, Slidein is just and idiot who doesn't understand mechanics. If he had, this would have never been an issue in the first place.

[Wayward]

Again, your example isn't analagous. Where OP sat on the Garg island is nowhere near as close to the Spectre spawns like sitting by the tower in Oasis would be. I have spent plenty of time on that island. It's completely easy to be aware of where other players are and not quad over them. The staff have always ruled that if you quad you have to be aware of where the players in the area are.

In this case, OP actually made it easier on the guy because he went and sat far out on the edge of the island away from everything. He wasn't out killing gargoyles. Point being, if some lowbie is killing Gargs and you quad the Spectres and run them through the lowbie and he dies, the staff will blame you for it plain and simple. Your opinion on it isn't relevant, it's just the rule.

At any rate, to take this back to the original discussion, Slidein is just and idiot who doesn't understand mechanics. If he had, this would have never been an issue in the first place.

Agreed, I was actually striking down the false analogy that someone else made. To correct my analogy:

if OP sat within aggro range of the Spectre's spawn points, it would be his fault. The rest reads the same.

[cd288]

Agreed, I was actually striking down the false analogy that someone else made. To correct my analogy:

The rest reads the same.

Ah gotcha my mistake!

[Goregasmic]

I don't really see how this is analogous. In the KC situation, there's literally only one place to run your train. The one zone line.

In this situation, it's a quad kite. And while the island is not large, if you're sitting out on that spit of land there's really no reason a quadder would need to quad over it. Quadder can easily avoid running their mobs over people. What you're arguing is like saying it's okay for someone kiting a Sand Giant or the Spectres in Oasis to run them over P1 and the docks and kill everyone. It has always been the case that you are responsible for the mobs in your quad once you begin it. If you run them through someone when you could avoid it, that's on you.

It doesn't matter where you run your aggro to. Your aggro is your aggro and you're responsible for it. Slidein claimed OP almost got him killed by derailing the quad with aggro. From the rulings I've seen I wouldn't even be surprised if sitting/blood/undead aggro is considered your aggro and if slidein died he could have been on the hook for it.

[cd288]

It doesn't matter where you run your aggro to. Your aggro is your aggro and you're responsible for it. Slidein claimed OP almost got him killed by derailing the quad with aggro. From the rulings I've seen I wouldn't even be surprised if sitting/blood/undead aggro is considered your aggro and if slidein died he could have been on the hook for it.

Unless OP deliberately interfered with the quad by casting or attacking, he's not on the hook for Slidein's death. The staff would rule that Slidein is responsible for OP's death actually, by pulling his quad over him

[Zuranthium]

I don't really see how this is analogous. In the KC situation, there's literally only one place to run your train. The one zone line.

That's not true at all. You can run a group of MOBs around anywhere and with root/snare you can also set up ways to camp out in a desired location after building up enough headway. Zonelines are common for fleeing but that's hardly the only way to play.

In this situation, it's a quad kite. And while the island is not large, if you're sitting out on that spit of land there's really no reason a quadder would need to quad over it.

There is a reason - because they want to play there. Which they are allowed to do. Also there used to be (and still are?) problems with AoE spells not hitting at certain angles on non-flat surfaces in the game. So actually you do specifically need to kite over a flat area like that.

Unless OP deliberately interfered with the quad by casting or attacking

You can cause aggro in ways other than casting or attacking. If you are sitting in the path of MOBs and don't want to get aggroed, then it's your fault for not moving, plain and simple. Whether something is deliberate or not is unclear, unless someone is specifically shadowing another player wherever they go.

[cd288]

That's not true at all. You can run a group of MOBs around anywhere and with root/snare you can also set up ways to camp out in a desired location after building up enough headway. Zonelines are common for fleeing but that's hardly the only way to play.



There is a reason - because they want to play there. Which they are allowed to do. Also there used to be (and still are?) problems with AoE spells not hitting at certain angles on non-flat surfaces in the game. So actually you do specifically need to kite over a flat area like that.



You can cause aggro in ways other than casting or attacking. If you are sitting in the path of MOBs and don't want to get aggroed, then it's your fault for not moving, plain and simple. Whether something is deliberate or not is unclear, unless someone is specifically shadowing another player wherever they go.

As for KC, yes you're right but usually the staff takes the position that training a zone line isn't a violation. You're allowed to train to zone to survive and people sitting right by a zone line assume some risk of that.

This is different from being out in the world. In those situations, the staff generally rules that the quadder is responsible. Doesn't matter if it's better for them to quad on the flat area of the island or not. They're responsible for what happens. Obviously, if the other person sees the quad and intentionally goes and sits in its path to disrupt the quad, they are in the wrong. But if they are just sitting on the island medding after killing a gargoyle, and you run your quad over them, the staff will find that you are in the wrong.

Kind of silly that this debate is continuing when this is how it's been handled by the staff for years.

[Wayward]

Kind of silly that this debate is continuing when this is how it's been handled by the staff for years.

/thread

[Zuranthium]

Kind of silly that this debate is continuing when this is how it's been handled by the staff for years.

How "the staff" handles something varies, and policies can always change.

More importantly, p99 is supposed to be as close to classic Everquest as possible. It's absolutely not anyone's responsibility to run in an opposite direction from where another player is sitting. That was never an EQ policy or an intent of the game designers. It was exactly the opposite - nobody owns any space within the game world. It's all there for everyone to inhabit as they see fit.

If player A is constantly following player B wherever they go and pulling MOBs on top of them, then sure, player B has a right to complain. But otherwise, no. Anything else is player B's fault for sitting in the path of MOBs and not moving.

[cd288]

How "the staff" handles something varies, and policies can always change.

More importantly, p99 is supposed to be as close to classic Everquest as possible. It's absolutely not anyone's responsibility to run in an opposite direction from where another player is sitting. That was never an EQ policy or an intent of the game designers. It was exactly the opposite - nobody owns any space within the game world. It's all there for everyone to inhabit as they see fit.

If player A is constantly following player B wherever they go and pulling MOBs on top of them, then sure, player B has a right to complain. But otherwise, no. Anything else is player B's fault for sitting in the path of MOBs and not moving.

For anyone reading this comment, please just disregard it. This is this player's personal opinion and feelings and not what the staff rules.

If you're quadding or swarming, be careful. The staff will hold you responsible if you run your train over someone sitting and medding up or fighting mobs that aren't part of your quad/swarm.

[Duik]

Bluntfang, I have to hand it to you—fourteen years of forum posting about a 17-year-old emulator for a 27-year-old elf simulator is a level of commitment most people only achieve in careers or long-term relationships. At this point you’re not even part of the community, you are the legacy system. If someone archived the forums, historians would probably assume you were a built-in NPC designed to explain why nothing should ever be updated.

What’s fascinating is how every thread somehow loops back to you explaining, again, why the most inconvenient, brittle setup imaginable is actually the “correct” one. It’s like watching someone defend dial-up internet because the connection noise builds character. You don’t just resist improvements—you treat them like personal attacks, as if smoother performance might somehow erase the last fourteen years of muscle memory you’ve mistaken for expertise.

Honestly, the wildest part is that you’re still arguing like there’s something at stake here. This isn’t a competitive scene, there’s no prize pool, and nobody’s taking your title as Grand Arbiter of Elf Simulator 1999 Emulation Fidelity. The only thing on the line is whether new people bounce off immediately or stick around—and you’ve been doing a stellar job making sure they don’t.

He has like 151 posts. Relaxamifacate.

[OriginalContentGuy]

i'm using AI to construct threat matrices and collapse all alt forum accounts into single entities of all users.

https://i.imgur.com/yQSdrGX.png

I'm the p99 Palantir, and Kaia has given you all a social credit score

spoiler alert, it ain't good.

Kaia makes detailed notes anytime company comes over while she hides under the stairs and sniffs their socks. Spoiler alert, she likes Taylor Swift.

[Ekco]

https://i.imgur.com/fJyv54Z.png

doesn't seem to be a swiftie

surprised there isn't a A24 horror movie yet with a LLM Agent hooked up to a family's smart house spying on them through the cameras and killing them with a Roomba and other appliances yet

[Zuranthium]

The staff will hold you responsible if you run your train over someone sitting

Says who? There's no rule anywhere stating this and that's obviously not what happens anytime sometime runs a train to a zoneline. Anyone sitting there who dies, it's THEIR OWN FAULT. It's no different anywhere else in the game world. Nobody is privileged to have a protected space that no other player is allowed to run through.

The current p99 rules simply say that you may not intentionally train someone. If you're clearly capable of killing a group of MOBs and trying to do so, and someone else causes aggro on themself because they are sitting too close, that is their fault. To prove someone is intentionally causing a train, it would need to involve either running in a very strange way (aka, gathering MOBs and running to a completely different area where someone is sitting, for no apparent reason) or repeatedly following someone around.

[OriginalContentGuy]

https://i.imgur.com/fJyv54Z.png
Kaia's takes on music still shit despite hanging out with you Ekco.

[Ekco]

Yeah, gotta do some post training for sure. I remember asking for recommendations before and it was just random stuff

[kjs86z2]

I did 20-22 out at gargoyle island and I didn't die.

Not sure what OP's issue is.

[Defo]

More importantly, p99 is supposed to be as close to classic Everquest as possible

To this point, I have a question:

Does anyone remember Sergeant Slate constantly being trained through EC Tunnel back in the day?

It was harmful for an evil race to AFK in tunnel- because someone would always be bringing Slate there to grief AFK toons.

I don't recall bans / suspensions being handed out for these types of trains - does anyone else recall?

[cd288]

Says who? There's no rule anywhere stating this and that's obviously not what happens anytime sometime runs a train to a zoneline. Anyone sitting there who dies, it's THEIR OWN FAULT. It's no different anywhere else in the game world. Nobody is privileged to have a protected space that no other player is allowed to run through.

The current p99 rules simply say that you may not intentionally train someone. If you're clearly capable of killing a group of MOBs and trying to do so, and someone else causes aggro on themself because they are sitting too close, that is their fault. To prove someone is intentionally causing a train, it would need to involve either running in a very strange way (aka, gathering MOBs and running to a completely different area where someone is sitting, for no apparent reason) or repeatedly following someone around.

I'm not going to engage with you on this anymore. As already mentioned, the staff have said that you are responsible for your quad unless someone intentionally tries to interfere with it to grief you. Your opinion on how things should be isn't relevant for this discussion, take it up with the staff if you don't like how they handle this issue.

[cd288]

To this point, I have a question:

Does anyone remember Sergeant Slate constantly being trained through EC Tunnel back in the day?

It was harmful for an evil race to AFK in tunnel- because someone would always be bringing Slate there to grief AFK toons.

I don't recall bans / suspensions being handed out for these types of trains - does anyone else recall?

It depends on when you're talking about. I was CSR during the classic era and EQ initially did not have any real rules or PNP when it launched...mainly because they just didn't predict the negative things people would do to others in game. Further, some mechanics that then required rules also weren't anticipated at all such as players forming camps and pulling to them.

Eventually the PNP was put in place and then further amended and modified over time. After that time, if Sergeant Slate was intentionally trained to the tunnel you'd be issued a warning; three warnings usually equaled a permanent ban of your account (sometimes there would be a temporary suspension after warnings 1 or 2 depending on the infraction).

That being said, we weren't as well equipped to respond to these types of petitions back then as people are today. People didn't have live screen recording software and server logs would only prove intentional training if they showed someone doing it over and over again. So if they only did it once or twice there would usually be nothing we could do because when you invised into the zone the offender had already ceased doing it so there wasn't proof. This was a common issue back in the day with enforcement of a variety of things such as kill stealing, etc. It could be pretty hard to prove and discipline unless we were lucky enough to get the petition and invis over to watch the offender in real time.

[Defo]

It depends on when you're talking about. I was CSR during the classic era and EQ initially did not have any real rules or PNP when it launched...mainly because they just didn't predict the negative things people would do to others in game. Further, some mechanics that then required rules also weren't anticipated at all such as players forming camps and pulling to them.

Eventually the PNP was put in place and then further amended and modified over time. After that time, if Sergeant Slate was intentionally trained to the tunnel you'd be issued a warning; three warnings usually equaled a permanent ban of your account (sometimes there would be a temporary suspension after warnings 1 or 2 depending on the infraction).

That being said, we weren't as well equipped to respond to these types of petitions back then as people are today. People didn't have live screen recording software and server logs would only prove intentional training if they showed someone doing it over and over again. So if they only did it once or twice there would usually be nothing we could do because when you invised into the zone the offender had already ceased doing it so there wasn't proof. This was a common issue back in the day with enforcement of a variety of things such as kill stealing, etc. It could be pretty hard to prove and discipline unless we were lucky enough to get the petition and invis over to watch the offender in real time.

Ahhh yeah that makes sense. I was never one to file petitions (or /report back in the day) and I still don't - but I do know that OBS / Screen Caps are a huge part of the petition process on p99 these days.

Thanks!

[kjs86z2]

I have only /petitioned once.

Was set up in NG on my enchanter 10+ years ago. Some fuckhead was clearing trying to pull mobs into my camp and get me killed. He wasn't doing a very good job of it, but annoying nonetheless.

/petition - guy got rekt hard by the guide all within a matter of 5 minutes

[Zuranthium]

As already mentioned, the staff have said that you are responsible for your quad unless someone intentionally tries to interfere with it to grief you.

They certainly haven't said that in the officially posted rules, and you have yet to show evidence of this to begin with, much less it being how every staff member would respond.

You also don't seem to comprehend that anyone who is sitting in the path of a quad can inherently be deemed as interfering. Particularly when someone clearly knows that another person is quadding in the area, why are they sitting there and not paying attention?

Eventually the PNP was put in place and then further amended and modified over time. After that time, if Sergeant Slate was intentionally trained to the tunnel you'd be issued a warning

Wrong. Something like that was never an infraction, unless you were doing it over and over, or doing something like using Feign Death right in front of someone else, after clearly pulling a MOB for the sole purpose of transferring aggro like that. Simply getting aggroed by something and running around and the aggro happening to transfer to someone else - that happened 1000's of times a day and was a totally normal, expected part of the game.

MOBs like Sergeant Slate were constantly being "trained" to places like EC tunnel because players were getting attacked by that NPC and needed help to not be killed. It was part of what made the game alive and added community interaction. Some lower level person screaming "help help", running towards you with MOBs in tow.

[cd288]

Wrong. Something like that was never an infraction, unless you were doing it over and over, or doing something like using Feign Death right in front of someone else, after clearly pulling a MOB for the sole purpose of transferring aggro like that. Simply getting aggroed by something and running around and the aggro happening to transfer to someone else - that happened 1000's of times a day and was a totally normal, expected part of the game.

MOBs like Sergeant Slate were constantly being "trained" to places like EC tunnel because players were getting attacked by that NPC and needed help to not be killed. It was part of what made the game alive and added community interaction. Some lower level person screaming "help help", running towards you with MOBs in tow.

No shit. Your reading comprehension is pretty poor.

[Zuranthium]

??? You're not saying anything and just contradicting yourself now.

"Training" Sergeant Slate into EC tunnel was never a punishable offense, when it simply happened as a natural part of existing in the game world. Someone absolutely could be doing it on purpose, the purpose being not getting killed, and it was allowed.

Your claim that it only happened because "people didn't have live screen recording software and CSR needed to see logs of it happening many times" is completely false. It was allowed because it was a normal part of the fucking game, same for any other sort of similar incident of running around and MOB aggro transferring while trying to play the game.

[Duik]

Excellent.

Assuming cd288 was a csr back in the day, what they say carries more weight than anything World Bore Z has to say. If they were not csr. Burn In Hell!

Although being a shit cunt on a video game becomes acceptable where those of like mind will defend said actions.

Has this Slidein character come forward? Either is oblivious or a shit cunt.
My money is on they are a shit cunt laughing at this thread.

[Ekco]

Back in the day when someone was called out in RnF they'd come in swinging defending their honor and dropping gamer words.

We've fallen so far, disappointing.

[Wakanda]

how come nothing cool ever happens to me.... i feel like im playing p99 wrong

[Wakanda]

Excellent.

Assuming cd288 was a csr back in the day, what they say carries more weight than anything World Bore Z has to say. If they were not csr. Burn In Hell!

Although being a shit cunt on a video game becomes acceptable where those of like mind will defend said actions.

Has this Slidein character come forward? Either is oblivious or a shit cunt.
My money is on they are a shit cunt laughing at this thread.

they frequently say things that are silly to anyone who has a memory from real everquest.

my fav is that if you intentionally trained or KS'd someone you would get banned from the game.

does anyone here actually believe this happened?

In fact, how many people here did something toxic in original EverQuest with complete impunity?

If I recall this person already contradicted themselves in previous threads by accidentally admitting that they lived about 1500 miles too far away to have actually worked for SOE. I think they got a big imagination and think working remotely was a thing in 1999.

[cd288]

they frequently say things that are silly to anyone who has a memory from real everquest.

my fav is that if you intentionally trained or KS'd someone you would get banned from the game.

does anyone here actually believe this happened?

In fact, how many people here did something toxic in original EverQuest with complete impunity?

If I recall this person already contradicted themselves in previous threads by accidentally admitting that they lived about 1500 miles too far away to have actually worked for SOE. I think they got a big imagination and think working remotely was a thing in 1999.

Buddy do you think that all the GMs and Guides worked at SOE offices? Lmao. All you needed was a computer that could run EQ and an internet connection. Logs from your shift of all the petitions you handled and your interactions with players would get posted to a private SOE site for review by the supervising CSR staff. I can't remember what the software was called, but you'd run the log command when you logged in and then run your text file through the software and it would help parse your report for the time you were online (you had to post recaps of the petition and how you handled it in private CSR chat in game with specific tags before the wording, so that the software would know to target that text for inclusion in your shift report). You didn't need to be at an SOE office lol.

And yes you could get banned from the game for intentionally kill stealing and training people, once the PNP was put in place and if you hit 3 warnings. Did people get away with it? Sure...if you had any reading comprehension you'd be able to realize I said exactly that in my comment: We didn't have screen recording software back then so you were basically reliant on hoping a CSR member saw the petition and teleported over while the incident was happening/continuing, otherwise it was hard for us to do anything. Although I do remember one guy, he had had a ton of petitions about him and was on 2 warnings already, I'd always check petitions quickly to see if they were about him because I wanted to get him and eventually I was able to get him for intentionally kill stealing from groups outside of KC...3rd warning, permanent ban. I remember like a week later he created some new account (or maybe used a friend's) to message me in game from a level 1 character and threatened to sue me lol.

I don't think we need to trust anything that comes out of Wakanda's (aka RecondoJoe's) mouth considering he has been banned/suspended on P99 multiple times and frequently makes posts that he says he doesn't remember making because he's so drunk all the time.

[OriginalContentGuy]

Somehow i feel Slidein doesn't really care about this TBH.

[Goregasmic]

Somehow i feel Slidein doesn't really care about this TBH.

He fucked up. Could have rezzed the guy. Guy was an ass. Ignored and moved on.

Probably the most level headed way to deal with shit like this.

[cd288]

He fucked up. Could have rezzed the guy. Guy was an ass. Ignored and moved on.

Probably the most level headed way to deal with shit like this.

I always take that with a grain of salt. If you viewed it that way and were gonna rez the guy you'd say so upfront. Usually when people later in the convo go "I would've rezzed you but now I think you were rude to me" usually they had no intention of rezzing you.

[Goregasmic]

I always take that with a grain of salt. If you viewed it that way and were gonna rez the guy you'd say so upfront. Usually when people later in the convo go "I would've rezzed you but now I think you were rude to me" usually they had no intention of rezzing you.

I always try to make right by my mistakes and I'll go out of my way to help people but if you're going to give me a good reason to not make me wait for the OOT boat with a cleric I'll take it!

[Wakanda]

fortunately i dont read what liars say. tldr.

[cd288]

fortunately i dont read what liars say. tldr.

Someone hasn't mature past the age of like 7 years old...

[kjs86z2]

nocondomjoe drunk posting again

[Phildorex]

He fucked up. Could have rezzed the guy. Guy was an ass. Ignored and moved on.

Probably the most level headed way to deal with shit like this.

Permadeath players cannot be rezzed. If Slidein is a griefer, and his conduct certainly is not inconsistent with that speculation, it was possibly an intentional train for this very reason.

[Wayward]

I re-read the messages from the first post, the screen shots... And it reminds me all to much of many encounters I've seen or had with super special folks on p99.

Fuck I hate most of the people that play here.