New Server Rule Proposal for Scout Roll

[eisenfaust]

If you roll at Scout Charisa you should be required to stay and help. It is happening sometimes that the winner is left just standing there with no one to help. A rule in place would help to stop this from happening.

[loramin]

The forum is a good place to discuss something like this, but ultimately player agreements are decided by the players in-game.

If you want to make this change, get to the roll early and talk to people. Explain why you think the new roll rules are better, and convince them to agree to them (if everyone else does).

Do that over the course of a few weeks, and eventually you can (hopefully) convince everyone: if you do, those rules officially apply to that roll (because there's a rule about not defrauding other players: if you all agree to something, you're held to it). Then, you just have to keep it up for a few weeks more, and eventually the new rules will become the "official" roll rules.

(It's a hassle, but that's more or less how every player agreement on the server has been set.)

[sammoHung]

I thought part of the agreement was to stay and help? Maybe we can start a running forum post of the scummers who /q when they don't win the roll.

The fight is short. If you don't want to stay and help just grab a SoW and kite the giants to DN.

[Jimjam]

Amazing how people have the time to roll, being sure nothing would come up if they won it, yet when they don't win the roll, something is sure to have 'just come up', right?

That is just the tip of the iceberg of how people seem to be really good at finding reasons they should roll, but also why they shouldn't help.

The encounter is very easy, it can be done with a low level tank and minimal healing, but people will gatekeep their help for arbitary irrelevant reasons - I've seen people get refused help because the winner was 'too low' and then the winner goes on to tank the mob and get the loot... how can you be too low for a loot which you can make a valid succesful attempt at tanking?!

[kjs86z2]

ive /q'd on about 20 scout rolls

[sammoHung]

NGL - if i was rolling against 10 rogue bots id probably q out too.

[Swish]

I propose to start a shortlist of people who log out instead of helping and definitely note the guild tags.

[aborebard]

I believe most people do; I have seen it where people would have to wait 30mins to an hour for a kill force. I honestly don't blame people if they have to bail after 30mins.

[Knuckle]

I havent rolled on scout in a few years but most rollers stuck around, people being dicks now?

[sammoHung]

I havent rolled on scout in a few years but most rollers stuck around, people being dicks now?

Well I hear there's at least 1 guild that is awarding DKP for winning scout roll on bots.

So I imagine either
a) the bot players /q after no bots win
b) the non-bot players /q after a bot wins

I q'd on a scout roll once when a naked 55 ranger won. I'm not helping assholes gear their 15th alt.

[WarpathEQ]

Given that they changed scout on Green down to 46 (GMs with NO player agreement, as in it was voted on and unanimously turned down and they change it anyway) the scout roll numbers have ballooned to typically 40-50 people at the scout roll.

The captain can be killed with 3-4 people so I don't really care much if some people dip out. There is typically 10x the number of people that stay to fight that actually need to kill him.

I wouldn't waste your time or get all worked up about people that don't really matter leaving. What I would do is call it out in public, take note of who they are, and encourage EVERYONE to leave when they win the roll :)

[kjs86z2]

its not a big deal til you win and everyone /qs

[Goregasmic]

its not a big deal til you win and everyone /qs

I liked the story where it was 2 guys at the angry goblin roll and the loser /q'ed.

[orangefrog]

That half the rollers that show up these days are DKP rogue bots has made something that was already terrible even worse. Level 60 mains can't progress their characters because these rogue bots 'need' a few extra stat points to survive Tunare and AoW bot zerg? They have maxed str with shaman buffs anyways--its a complete waste and just griefing normal players.

It's getting out of hand. Raise the level requirement back up and stop letting bots ruin it. I'd prefer the clickfest to a 50-man roll off at this point.

[Goregasmic]

That half the rollers that show up these days are DKP rogue bots has made something that was already terrible even worse. Level 60 mains can't progress their characters because these rogue bots 'need' a few extra stat points to survive Tunare and AoW bot zerg? They have maxed str with shaman buffs anyways--its a complete waste and just griefing normal players.

It's getting out of hand. Raise the level requirement back up and stop letting bots ruin it. I'd prefer the clickfest to a 50-man roll off at this point.

Yeah, can't say I wasn't annoyed to see all the wizard bots queue up in TOFS during the already super crowded xmas event.

[sammoHung]

That half the rollers that show up these days are DKP rogue bots has made something that was already terrible even worse. Level 60 mains can't progress their characters because these rogue bots 'need' a few extra stat points to survive Tunare and AoW bot zerg? They have maxed str with shaman buffs anyways--its a complete waste and just griefing normal players.

It's getting out of hand. Raise the level requirement back up and stop letting bots ruin it. I'd prefer the clickfest to a 50-man roll off at this point.

Yep. And as Gore said it was the same deal over the holiday event. It's the same hardcore no-lifers that scum their guild's DKP system by repeating these types of quests on fuckin BOTS that will be piloted by some AFK player who will die anyway.

Green is dead.

[theo206]

I will always stay and help the kill if the winner is 55+, I will never stay and help someone under 55. The players should just get together and refuse to help winners under level 55, this change is god awful.

[Jimjam]

I only help characters under 60. It can be tanked and healed by characters under 55 so lets keep it to level appropriate characters (:.

[Ignight]

So you roll on an item before it appears? Am I reading this right?

[loramin]

So you roll on an item before it appears? Am I reading this right?

The alternative is a race to see who can click first (which is impacted by things like how far you are from the server IRL). We had that before, it sucked, now we roll.

Rolls still suck ... but less.

[Jimjam]

I don’t bother rolling. I just help out and maybe every 50th time I ninja loot and steal the roll winner’s rightful pixels.

[Ignight]

The alternative is a race to see who can click first (which is impacted by things like how far you are from the server IRL). We had that before, it sucked, now we roll.

Rolls still suck ... but less.

So even after players roll and lose, the ask is they stay and kill said NPC? Shouldn't it fall on the winner to form a team to do it?

Just asking questions because I've never been told I won't win this week's lottery, but I still have to pay my money.

[loramin]

So even after players roll and lose, the ask is they stay and kill said NPC? Shouldn't it fall on the winner to form a team to do it?

Just asking questions because I've never been told I won't win this week's lottery, but I still have to pay my money.

My personal opinion is that P99 is for classic EQ. In classic EQ, no one ever got a recurring lotto for nice loot: if you wanted scout loot, you brought a raid.

However, time-locked servers aren't classic either. On live people had Luclin, PoP, etc. gear by now. Here we have ... Scout. Still.

So, the way the community has chosen to do it is with a lotto system (which, again, still sucks less than a clickfest), and what you "pay" for your lotto ticket is a commitment to help whoever wins. It works better than anything else we've tried, even if some slackers sometimes fail to stick around.

[Jimjam]

Completely agree with you guys.

What I've done is arranged with a bunch of my mates that we'll all show up ready for the turn in, then roll on who gets to do it. We're a good bunch of lads, we'll generally stick around and help the winner because we know they'd likely do the same for us.

That way the winner is bringing a raid force from which they can easily form a team to kill the mob and get the loot.

Simple as.

[Ignight]

My personal opinion is that P99 is for classic EQ. In classic EQ, no one ever got a recurring lotto for nice loot: if you wanted scout loot, you brought a raid.

However, time-locked servers aren't classic either. On live people had Luclin, PoP, etc. gear by now. Here we have ... Scout. Still.

So, the way the community has chosen to do it is with a lotto system (which, again, still sucks less than a clickfest), and what you "pay" for your lotto ticket is a commitment to help whoever wins. It works better than anything else we've tried, even if some slackers sometimes fail to stick around.

Perhaps I'm just not understanding the entire concept. I have no issue with a random roll for all players who want Scout. I do think the "winner" should be the one to field a team instead of thinking those that lost and now have nothing to gain are in fact, obligated to help.

Like rolling for the AC ring. (if that were a thing) After losing the roll being told you now have to help kill the AC. Wait, what?

[Ciderpress]

Perhaps I'm just not understanding the entire concept. I have no issue with a random roll for all players who want Scout. I do think the "winner" should be the one to field a team instead of thinking those that lost and now have nothing to gain are in fact, obligated to help.

Like rolling for the AC ring. (if that were a thing) After losing the roll being told you now have to help kill the AC. Wait, what?

What the losers have to gain is that when they eventually win there will be a team of randos already there to help them also. This is why it's such a bad look to roll and bail.

I also don't like the argument that scout roll "isn't classic". It's a perfectly organic agreement that emerged from the playerbase. That could have easily happened on a classic server too, cause there were many classic servers not just one. And they were different. The whole notion of objectively "classic" mechanics is kind of silly in many ways, given the fundamental design of the game. Hard numbers and formulas? Sure, those are objective. That's about it. Cause it's an MMO.

[bcbrown]

Just asking questions because I've never been told I won't win this week's lottery, but I still have to pay my money.

Wait there's lotteries where only the winner has to pay? How would that work?

Just asking questions

[Ciderpress]

AC camp is a bad comparison too because you shouldn't be at that camp if you can't solo it, whereas you literally cannot solo capt, it's basically a kunark-era raid encounter in terms of difficulty. You can super low man it with a great team of competent well-geared players, sure. You can kill faydedar with four people too, that doesn't mean it's easy.

The 46+ rule now does seem kind of lame though. ngl I'm sorta mad when a 46 wins it. And yet I still help.

[Ignight]

Wait there's lotteries where only the winner has to pay? How would that work?

Just asking questions

After being told I can't win, then I have to pay.

[usmcjdking]

Perhaps I'm just not understanding the entire concept. I have no issue with a random roll for all players who want Scout. I do think the "winner" should be the one to field a team instead of thinking those that lost and now have nothing to gain are in fact, obligated to help.

Like rolling for the AC ring. (if that were a thing) After losing the roll being told you now have to help kill the AC. Wait, what?

This is honestly one of the dumbest suggestions I've heard. Not only does it lock certain players out, it also just increases the timer delay as people wouldn't turn in until a nominal force was established.

This would significantly slow down the turn-over on this quest over time and increase the amount of failures substantially.

[sammoHung]

As someone who has both lost close to 100 rolls and helped on each one

And also won a handful of rolls and relied on the people staying to help kill:

Isn't that the whole point of the player agreement? That sometimes the roll happens at 4am and instead of trying to rally an outside raid force to take 10 minutes to travel to scout roll - it's much easier, simpler, more efficient and overall just makes more sense to have the people who lost stick around to help?

Or are we that fuckin selfish that we can't spend an additional 5 minutes killing an easy target twice a day? Or just sore losers?

[Jimjam]

As someone who has both lost close to 100 rolls and helped on each one

And also won a handful of rolls and relied on the people staying to help kill:

Isn't that the whole point of the player agreement? That sometimes the roll happens at 4am and instead of trying to rally an outside raid force to take 10 minutes to travel to scout roll - it's much easier, simpler, more efficient and overall just makes more sense to have the people who lost stick around to help?

Or are we that fuckin selfish that we can't spend an additional 5 minutes killing an easy target twice a day? Or just sore losers?

It's amazing the number of players that apparently detest the core of the game, yet continue to subject themselves to the misery of playing it anyway.

[sammoHung]

It's amazing the number of players that apparently detest the core of the game, yet continue to subject themselves to the misery of playing it anyway.

I know a few of these. They only SOLO this MULTIPLAYER game.

And yet rely on raids to get gear / plat to continue gearing their alts to solo.

You know the ones, the ones who are constantly bitching about what is owed to them in your guild's chat, but you can never rely on them to help with a quest or dungeon crawl. you only ever see them soloing (or boxing) or bidding on drops at raids.

the same fuckers who think buy low sell high is a viable strategy in EC tunnel in 2026, 5+ years after the last content dropped. you know the ones.

the same ones who WTB cowl of mortality for 150k (but not in a rush) but would sell it for 200k, current posting on tunnelquest discord. you know the ones

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So even after players roll and lose, the ask is they stay and kill said NPC? Shouldn't it fall on the winner to form a team to do it?

That's how Ring 8 rolls work. Roll happens like 30 minutes before pop, so players have a bit of time to form a team after they win.

I wouldn't mind if scout followed the same rules.

Honestly though, I don't understand the obsession with the scout roll items. They all get replaced by raid items eventually, and each item has a close enough item.

Othmir Prexus Totem is a close enough to Talisman, Ice Silk Robe is close enough to Robe, and Silver Chitin Wristbands + Blue Diamond Bracelets on Sawp are close enough to BoBs. Unless you get really lucky on rolls, it's probably faster just to farm the plat for one of these items, or farm the item itself if you have characters to do it.

I never bother with scout roll personally. I hate having to leave a character I want to play at scout for a month or more, or constantly go back and forth.

[sammoHung]

I wouldn't mind if scout followed the same rules.



I never bother with scout roll personally.


Of course you don't mind if you don't partake, so since you don't partake who cares how you think it should work?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Of course you don't mind if you don't partake, so since you don't partake who cares how you think it should work?

If you are attempting an argument from authority fallacy, that doesn't work because I have done scout roll numerous times in the past. I understand the system perfectly well. If you think there is a fundamental difference between Scout and Ring 8, please explain it. Ring 8's bring your own group system has worked for years. It would work for Scout, and it would probably be better. I'd imagine less people would show up if you needed your own group.

If you are asking a more general question about why we should care about another poster's opinion, then the answer is this is a forum. People read forums to understand other people's opinions. I hope you arent suggesting all posts from people who no longer play are now 100% irrelevant, simply because they don't play (and thus don't actively partake)?

[Duik]

There are lots of actual babies here.
Lots of people like their baby, not everyone likes other peoples babies, some naturally nurturing people do. These people do well at this kind of thing.

It really is this simple people.
Further, I hate both yours and my baby. I dont have scout or ring 8.

Many people are shocked when they find out im not an elecrtician!