Chardok exploitation hurting the spirit of the game

[Vermilion]

I was hesitant to post this because I hate drama over a video game, but people like this need to be called out and held accountable otherwise this behavior just continues.

TLDR: level 60 enchanters locking down Chardok with solo farming and trains. Claiming spawns by merely sitting afk (non agro, full spawns). Gathering trains and dumping on groups trying to dungeon crawl.

I've recently come back to the game, I played the week Everquest launched in 99 until Luclin came out. I understand the game has changed and people have found all kinds of loopholes, unique ways of soloing and raiding that werent around in 1999. No problems there at all. It's fun to use your class to it's highest ability to do things that were intended for groups or even raids. However, abuse of this is ruining the real intention and spirit of the game.

Case in point - Over the past few weeks myself and some friends and numerous random people just wanting to check out Chardok, have been creating a group a few nights a week to try and explore the dungeon. It's a challenging dungeon with a lot of unique features and is fun to crawl around in. Going here with a group feels like what EQ was made for. However, virtually every time we are here, there are solo 60 enchanters farming the desirable camps using an exploit to do things that were intended to be done by groups or raids. The problem isnt necessarily that they are doing this, although that could be argued. The problem is mainly that they are creating massive trains that prohibit groups from even going to certain areas of the dungeon. Many nights there is an enchanter broadcasting over /OOC that he is pulling Korocust room and that there will be a massive train, and that we have all "been warned". This is happening every 15 minutes, all night long and keeps us from even going to that area of the dungeon. Trust me we found out the hard way.

Ok sure, whatever, he is just one person locking down a whole section of the dungeon and he was already there and seems to always be there. We go somewhere else. We have been trying to figure out how to get to Herbalist and Overseer camps, not easy to do. Many nights and several attempts with mysterious trains being dumped on us and always a solo enchanter was just passing by moments before. Coincidence I'm sure.

Last night we finally make it to Herbalist as a full group, after a couple of hours forming up and fighting our way down the old school way. We see 2 enchanters sitting outside of the herbalist keep, both AFK. All mobs are spawned including the Herbalist PH. We try to speak with these enchanters and get no response, clearly afk. We do not pull the herbalist PH and instead go past to the overseer down the hall and clear that area out. We return to the Herbalist and these 2 are still AFK so we pull Herbalist PH and proceed to clear the area and keep it cleared for the next hour, killing the PH multiple times. 1 enchanter logs off, the other, named Gnobono, finally comes back from AFK and is surprised to see a group down there (the zone is typically empty other than the enchanters). This guy proceeds to try and explain how he has been camping this spawn for over 3 days and that he has put in all this "work" and that all he wants is that one spawn and implies that it still belongs to him because he can sit inside the room because he is not agro, but because we are all KOS and need to sit outside the room and pull, he has "line of sight" first therefore it belong to him. Laughable.

I go back and forth with him in tells explaining that we wont be there much longer and that the rules of the game dictate that he cannot claim this camp by merely posting up AFK and that we have been there over an hour keeping the place clear. When he sees that he is not getting his way and we continue to kill the respawns, he says he is done talking to us, gathers up a train and dumps it on us during the next keep respawn. He was clearly seen by our group with agro mobs chasing him, he is not KOS here, so the only way to gather agro mobs is to be intentional about it. They are dumped on us, and we have to evac after a couple of deaths.

This behavior is incredibly selfish and a shitty thing to do to a full group that are trying to play the game as intended. In all of the groups I've been in in Chardok, everyone unanimously agrees that this enchanter farm camping thing is 1) pretty cool and probably fun to do, 2) endangers everyone else in the zone with trains and wipes, and 3) should not be allowed when others are in the zone. If you cannot hold a camp without creating trains that block others from accessing the dungeon, you shouldn't be doing it if anyone else is around and you should be held accountable for wiping groups with your trains, intentional or otherwise.

However our encounter last night with Gnobono was beyond even this. As this guy was trying to claim a camp even after being AFK for over an hour. And the intentional train on us should have serious repercussions to this person specifically. What are those repercussions? I was in a full group that can confirm this guy's behavior. I'm not sure what the rules are regarding his behavior but it's greedy people like him that ruin the spirit of the game for entire groups trying to do the right thing and it's discouraging to return to the game after 25 years and see this kind of crap happening on a nightly basis.

This is our conversation start to finish for clarity and confirmation of what I've said:
https://imgur.com/a/Lb6DrE0
https://imgur.com/aXulkYP
https://imgur.com/skIUePe

[Vermilion]

Well I am not sure why the screenshots of our conversation are not showing, i uploaded them to imgur and linked them under the "insert image" icon. I dont even see an option to edit the post.

[CrazyPro]

Galaxy brained EQ savants turn on OBS before stepping foot in chardok

[CrazyPro]

Well I am not sure why the screenshots of our conversation are not showing, i uploaded them to imgur and linked them under the "insert image" icon. I dont even see an option to edit the post.

You have to copy the actual image link and not the link to the page with the image. Right click the image itself, open it in a new tab, and then use that link.

[Vermilion]

https://i.imgur.com/JPG73mL.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/aXulkYP.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/skIUePe.jpeg

[sammoHung]

Sincere advice OP: Walk away from p99.

These servers used to be chock full of both casual-leaning friendly players and hardcore no-lifer poopsocking scumbags.

Many of the former category have left, but almost none of the latter have.

[sammoHung]

Galaxy brained EQ savants turn on OBS before stepping foot in chardok

It's pretty sad that this is the state of these servers - Green seems to be much worse off than Blue in this regard.

How about, as a community, Green decides to ostracize scumbag players instead of require people to run OBS 24/7? Or would ostracizing the scumbag players have too much of a negative effect on everyones loot?

SHUT IT DOWN ROGEAN

[Vermilion]

What is this "OBS" you guys keep mentioning? Sorry dunno what that means

[sammoHung]

What is this "OBS" you guys keep mentioning? Sorry dunno what that means

It's a screen capture software - it's used to record PnP violations. It's helpful on raids.

But back to my original point: these servers are cancer. There are so many folks here that have no prospects for happiness in real life, so they sit at their PCs for 12-16 hours a day in a 25+ year old game to try and feel alive.

As time passes and the server gets older, the ratio of well-adjusted people to no-life losers gets smaller and smaller. Soon it will be less than 1.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I was hesitant to post this because I hate drama over a video game, but people like this need to be called out and held accountable otherwise this behavior just continues.

TLDR: level 60 enchanters locking down Chardok with solo farming and trains. Claiming spawns by merely sitting afk (non agro, full spawns). Gathering trains and dumping on groups trying to dungeon crawl.

I've recently come back to the game, I played the week Everquest launched in 99 until Luclin came out. I understand the game has changed and people have found all kinds of loopholes, unique ways of soloing and raiding that werent around in 1999. No problems there at all. It's fun to use your class to it's highest ability to do things that were intended for groups or even raids. However, abuse of this is ruining the real intention and spirit of the game.

Case in point - Over the past few weeks myself and some friends and numerous random people just wanting to check out Chardok, have been creating a group a few nights a week to try and explore the dungeon. It's a challenging dungeon with a lot of unique features and is fun to crawl around in. Going here with a group feels like what EQ was made for. However, virtually every time we are here, there are solo 60 enchanters farming the desirable camps using an exploit to do things that were intended to be done by groups or raids. The problem isnt necessarily that they are doing this, although that could be argued. The problem is mainly that they are creating massive trains that prohibit groups from even going to certain areas of the dungeon. Many nights there is an enchanter broadcasting over /OOC that he is pulling Korocust room and that there will be a massive train, and that we have all "been warned". This is happening every 15 minutes, all night long and keeps us from even going to that area of the dungeon. Trust me we found out the hard way.

Ok sure, whatever, he is just one person locking down a whole section of the dungeon and he was already there and seems to always be there. We go somewhere else. We have been trying to figure out how to get to Herbalist and Overseer camps, not easy to do. Many nights and several attempts with mysterious trains being dumped on us and always a solo enchanter was just passing by moments before. Coincidence I'm sure.

Last night we finally make it to Herbalist as a full group, after a couple of hours forming up and fighting our way down the old school way. We see 2 enchanters sitting outside of the herbalist keep, both AFK. All mobs are spawned including the Herbalist PH. We try to speak with these enchanters and get no response, clearly afk. We do not pull the herbalist PH and instead go past to the overseer down the hall and clear that area out. We return to the Herbalist and these 2 are still AFK so we pull Herbalist PH and proceed to clear the area and keep it cleared for the next hour, killing the PH multiple times. 1 enchanter logs off, the other, named Gnobono, finally comes back from AFK and is surprised to see a group down there (the zone is typically empty other than the enchanters). This guy proceeds to try and explain how he has been camping this spawn for over 3 days and that he has put in all this "work" and that all he wants is that one spawn and implies that it still belongs to him because he can sit inside the room because he is not agro, but because we are all KOS and need to sit outside the room and pull, he has "line of sight" first therefore it belong to him. Laughable.

I go back and forth with him in tells explaining that we wont be there much longer and that the rules of the game dictate that he cannot claim this camp by merely posting up AFK and that we have been there over an hour keeping the place clear. When he sees that he is not getting his way and we continue to kill the respawns, he says he is done talking to us, gathers up a train and dumps it on us during the next keep respawn. He was clearly seen by our group with agro mobs chasing him, he is not KOS here, so the only way to gather agro mobs is to be intentional about it. They are dumped on us, and we have to evac after a couple of deaths.

This behavior is incredibly selfish and a shitty thing to do to a full group that are trying to play the game as intended. In all of the groups I've been in in Chardok, everyone unanimously agrees that this enchanter farm camping thing is 1) pretty cool and probably fun to do, 2) endangers everyone else in the zone with trains and wipes, and 3) should not be allowed when others are in the zone. If you cannot hold a camp without creating trains that block others from accessing the dungeon, you shouldn't be doing it if anyone else is around and you should be held accountable for wiping groups with your trains, intentional or otherwise.

However our encounter last night with Gnobono was beyond even this. As this guy was trying to claim a camp even after being AFK for over an hour. And the intentional train on us should have serious repercussions to this person specifically. What are those repercussions? I was in a full group that can confirm this guy's behavior. I'm not sure what the rules are regarding his behavior but it's greedy people like him that ruin the spirit of the game for entire groups trying to do the right thing and it's discouraging to return to the game after 25 years and see this kind of crap happening on a nightly basis.

This is our conversation start to finish for clarity and confirmation of what I've said:
https://imgur.com/a/Lb6DrE0
https://imgur.com/aXulkYP
https://imgur.com/skIUePe

dispel their pet or the enemy. get as many buffs as you can, including rapture, mezz and charm.

open and close trade window while they're fighting.

grab agro and train yourself (and them)

spend 260k on 2 AONs and spam them until the zone desynchs

obviously, you'll want to turn the body cam off BEFORE you do any of this.

[Vermilion]

lol well to be fair the vast majority of my encounters and playing time since coming back to the game have been positive. But people like this need to be called out.

Is there even active enforcement against this kind of behavior or am I just shouting into the void here?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

either obs, capture it and submit, wait for petition to go through and player gets punished 5-7 business days later by being told not to do it again OR

do the above and resort to name-calling and being shitty.

what guild is gnobono in?

[sammoHung]

lol well to be fair the vast majority of my encounters and playing time since coming back to the game have been positive. But people like this need to be called out.

Is there even active enforcement against this kind of behavior or am I just shouting into the void here?

You can try a forum petition and include logs, and hopefully the staff will investigate. But that's what the screen capture software is for.

One time I got trained by Frown (known scumbag), while he was streaming on twitch because he tried to call a camp from the zoneline, while I was at the camp. His stream called him out on it, but I don't run OBS. Petition served no purpose because the GMs "couldn't find proof" that he trained Fire Giants on me at LDCs in Sol B.

[Vermilion]

His guild name is ironically called "Degenerates"

[sammoHung]

I know it doesn't help much because I don't play anymore - but if I ever came back, I promise I would make Gnobono's play time miserable if I ever crossed paths with him.

[sammoHung]

The best revenge is getting someone to train themselves, though. One time Shinko stole my camp in the Hole. I spooked him by summoning eyeballs and looking through walls while FD.

He trained himself because he was spooked and then threw a fit and petitioned me. GM showed up and told him he trained himself. I wish I could bottle that moment and take a sip every oncein a while.

[CrazyPro]

dispel their pet or the enemy. get as many buffs as you can, including rapture, mezz and charm.

open and close trade window while they're fighting.

grab agro and train yourself (and them)

spend 260k on 2 AONs and spam them until the zone desynchs

obviously, you'll want to turn the body cam off BEFORE you do any of this.

Faction yourself with chardok and give every mob a https://wiki.project1999.com/Glowing_Black_Sword

[BradZax]

Do you have a pet class? Park your pet next to a mob really far away.

Ask the guy for a buff while giving him complements about his skill camping the mobs.

While he is casting, have your pet attack said mob.

Say thanks, stand around the corner, and wait.

[Lolaxica]

I was in this chardok group with OP. I confirm everything said by the original poster. He trained us which resulted in a couple deaths before us survivors evac’d out.

After recovering bodies and regrouping… we attempted to head back down. At the castle entrance, we were trained AGAIN by mobs down below (red dogs and herb sarnaks) which could have only come from one place: herbalist. The enchanter that trained us was the other enchanter OP spoke about; his “gf”, assigned with “holding” the camp while he afk’s. This second train achieved the desired result: we wiped, and parted ways.

Abhorrent behavior by the enchanters. Disheartening. Something needs to be done. A /petition was initiated via multiple group members which will HOPEFULLY result in disciplinary action against the offenders.

Don’t be like Gnibono and his girly friend.

[Lolaxica]

I can confirm everything said by OP as I was in this group.

Gobrono trained us as we were killing the PH. He dragged a ton of mobs to us.

After a few of the group members died, we evac’d. After regrouping, we headed back down. At the castle entrance, we were trained again by Gobrono’s enchanter lady friend. She brought up a number of red dogs and herbalist Sarnak’s, resulting in a wipe. This was the desired effect: wipe us early to discourage us from going back down, and it worked.

Abhorrent behavior. Really gives the game a sour taste. A few group members initiated a /petition and we can only hope appropriate disciplinary action will be taken.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

AI sez:
https://i.imgur.com/LIBMb6U.jpeg

[Stakorian]

It's cute, because this was essentially the entire reasoning for making a rule to prevent bards from swarming in dungeons. Worse, the CoM swarm often involves mobs no one is going after, but involves a small window where there can be a train situation. But the fact that bards were swarming triggered everyone to such a state of frenzy that they felt the entire zone was being monopolized, while really just being the mobs they were killing any way.

Yet, here we have a class doing the same disruption, only it involves far worse trains, and is far more prohibitive. I expect equal tears.

[branamil]

Wow! You encountered an antisocial obese nerd on an everquest simulator??? That's crazy! That's like, really unexpected!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Wow! You encountered a refined meta-gamer nerd on an everquest simulator??? That's crazy! That's like, really unexpected!

Please.

[OriginalContentGuy]

Yeah refined like a cheese factory

[Zuranthium]

TLDR: level 60 enchanters locking down Chardok with solo farming

Would be far less prevalent with classic coding:

Lull should be nearly useless (100% resist rate on any level 50+ target, and 55% resist rate and chance to fade EVERY TICK on level 40+ targets)

Charm should have a higher chance of breaking, especially when trying to charm anything that isn't at least 11 levels lower. All non-damage spells should be resisted more than they currently are, especially if you're not at least 11 levels higher than the target

[loramin]

Would be far less prevalent with classic coding:

Lull should be nearly useless (100% resist rate on any level 50+ target, and 55% resist rate and chance to fade EVERY TICK on level 40+ targets)

Charm should have a higher chance of breaking, especially when trying to charm anything that isn't at least 11 levels lower. All non-damage spells should be resisted more than they currently are, especially if you're not at least 11 levels higher than the target

Well, at least there's hope now that Nilbog has fixed channeling :D Maybe he'll knock all those bugs off the list in time for Green 2.0, and we'll actually get classic Enchanters (and classic Chardok)!

[onmove_broke]

Sincere advice OP: Walk away from p99.

These servers used to be chock full of both casual-leaning friendly players and hardcore no-lifer poopsocking scumbags.

Many of the former category have left, but almost none of the latter have.

I am convinced that even if this server had 10 people left, it would be the ten people farming like this guy in Chardok. Same with the Diddlydee guy who has like 10mm in PP on his EC bank toon.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I am convinced that even if this server had 10 people left, it would be the ten people farming like this guy in Chardok. Same with the Diddlydee guy who has like 10mm in PP on his EC bank toon.

https://i.imgur.com/9LNN5oP.jpeg

[CrazyPro]

https://i.imgur.com/9LNN5oP.jpeg

fundraise Rogean and Nilbog a means to extend their lifespans so that they don't have to worry about mortal concerns such as aging so they can work on what truly matters into as far into the future as we mere mortals can conceive

[kjs86z2]

welcome to p99

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

fundraise Rogean and Nilbog a means to extend their lifespans so that they don't have to worry about mortal concerns such as aging so they can work on what truly matters into as far into the future as we mere mortals can conceive

If more life span was the solution to meta gaming, there wouldn't be any meta gaming.

Anyway, the p99 team is caged in. They fix anything, the Russian company that owns this IP will say "Nyet" and send a missile at us all. "Blyat! Americans have fixed Everquest meta-gaming! Send missile!"

[OriginalContentGuy]

If more life span was the solution to meta gaming, there wouldn't be any meta gaming.

Anyway, the p99 team is caged in. They fix anything, the Russian company that owns this IP will say "Nyet" and send a missile at us all. "Blyat! Americans have fixed Everquest meta-gaming! Send missile!"

John cleese guy is that you?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I'm chief inspector Dreyfus. And Clouseau must die. Hee hee.

[Jimjam]

IMO p99 should end pre-chardok. I say that despite being a spade enthusiast.

[kjs86z2]

OP def never saw the chardok plvl days

[Jimjam]

OP def never saw the chardok plvl days

Good point. Every server needs a decent shitsump to protect the normies.

[Hannibal]

Sorry OP and Crew, that really sucks. I hope your petitions get resolved, but without OBS or FRAPS (both free) you will be a tough spot.

I had a similar issue and didn't have FRAPS running. The GM's called it as unsolveable and the offender walked.

The system is sadly NOT in your favor unless you screen record everything you do.

[WarpathEQ]

Gnobono is a saint you take everything you said about him back now!

[Endorra]

Once, long ago, Cecily and they/them/their friends saved Chardok from evil exploitative trains.

*draws a circle on the floor*

We must call upon they/them once again. Long they have slept, now to be woke.

[cd288]

Well, at least there's hope now that Nilbog has fixed channeling :D Maybe he'll knock all those bugs off the list in time for Green 2.0, and we'll actually get classic Enchanters (and classic Chardok)!

I feel like if you took every thread created on P99 and bet money that Loramin will eventually try and turn it into a "Enchanters aren't classic because I say so, depsite my being unable to provide any evidence on mechanics/coding!" thread, you'd probably make decent money.

[Jimjam]

I feel like if you took every thread created on P99 and bet money that Loramin will eventually try and turn it into a "Enchanters aren't classic because I say so, depsite my being unable to provide any evidence on mechanics/coding!" thread, you'd probably make decent money.

maybe so, but not as decent money as enchanters make due to unclassic mechanics/coding!

You tell ‘m Loramin!!

[cd288]

I love that theyre making channeling more classic. I don't think this is going to have the effect people think on Enchanters specifically though.

If you're getting hit as an Enchanter, then you're not very good at soloing as an Enchanter. I don't even main one or play my alt Enchanter very consistently at all and I can't remember the last time I died.

[Ekco]

wait what are they changing to channeling? please god don't nerf wizzy rend robe channel kiting
https://media.tenor.com/OOX3IQhSzYEAAAAM/this-is-all-i-got-man-this-is-all-i-got.gif

[sammoHung]

wait what are they changing to channeling? please god don't nerf wizzy rend robe channel kiting
https://media.tenor.com/OOX3IQhSzYEAAAAM/this-is-all-i-got-man-this-is-all-i-got.gif

From nilbog:
Instead of one roll with a small penalty per hit, the classic formula rolls separately for each hit. This means getting hit multiple times while casting is harder to channel through.

[sammoHung]

I have a feeling well see this is way overcranked in practice, but time will tell.

Currently: if you cast and get hit 6 times mid-cast, you get a penalty 6 times to your roll to succeed cast.

With patch: if you cast and get hit 6 times mid-cast, you have to win all 6 rolls to finish your cast.

I have a feeling casting while being hit will be literally impossible, depending on how many hits you take. Even a 1s cast won't matter, like color slant - lets say if your pet breaks and you've torched and hasted it - there's no way you're winning 4/4 rolls per quad attack.

Necro charming will be dead because of this. Screaming terror is a 2.5s cast. As it is, my necro loses like 1k HP on a bad charm break before a cast gets off.

Grats, Loramin!

[loramin]

I have a feeling well see this is way overcranked in practice, but time will tell.

Currently: if you cast and get hit 6 times mid-cast, you get a penalty 6 times to your roll to succeed cast.

With patch: if you cast and get hit 6 times mid-cast, you have to win all 6 rolls to finish your cast.

I have a feeling casting while being hit will be literally impossible, depending on how many hits you take. Even a 1s cast won't matter, like color slant - lets say if your pet breaks and you've torched and hasted it - there's no way you're winning 4/4 rolls per quad attack.

Necro charming will be dead because of this. Screaming terror is a 2.5s cast. As it is, my necro loses like 1k HP on a bad charm break before a cast gets off.

Grats, Loramin!

While I'm elated that P99 is getting more classic, I don't deserve any credit. The real heroes are the classic researchers who toiled to find the evidence ... and our all-volunteer dev team (mainly Nilbog in this case).

All I have ever done is bitch about charm being unclassic.

[Ekco]

alright, that doesn't sound like it will effect my favorite emergent game mechanic/exploit.

carry on, fuck enchanters(who don't cast c2 on me when i beg)

[cd288]

I have a feeling well see this is way overcranked in practice, but time will tell.

Currently: if you cast and get hit 6 times mid-cast, you get a penalty 6 times to your roll to succeed cast.

With patch: if you cast and get hit 6 times mid-cast, you have to win all 6 rolls to finish your cast.

I have a feeling casting while being hit will be literally impossible, depending on how many hits you take. Even a 1s cast won't matter, like color slant - lets say if your pet breaks and you've torched and hasted it - there's no way you're winning 4/4 rolls per quad attack.

Necro charming will be dead because of this. Screaming terror is a 2.5s cast. As it is, my necro loses like 1k HP on a bad charm break before a cast gets off.

Grats, Loramin!

In a dungeon yeah may be difficult for a Necro, but they do have FD so if Charm breaks just FD immediately and reset, no big deal.

Enchanters I guess on a technical basis the risk goes up for dungeon soloing, but anyone who is good with an Enchanter isn't getting hit on Charm breaks anyway.

[cd288]

I do wonder how this would affect Shaman face tanking and soloing

[Duik]

So standing in a corner begin casting a 24 second DD spell fom a robe then running around, then standing in same corner to complete the cast will be unaffected?

Outstanding.

[Ekco]

imma get that wurm shawl someday

goddamn it

[Vaarsuvius]

imma get that wurm shawl someday

goddamn it
Good luck with that if you’re farming Fe`Dhars with a wizard using vp/velk robe

[spoil]

If you're getting hit as an Enchanter, then you're not very good at soloing as an Enchanter. I don't even main one or play my alt Enchanter very consistently at all and I can't remember the last time I died.

In a dungeon yeah may be difficult for a Necro, but they do have FD so if Charm breaks just FD immediately and reset, no big deal.

Enchanters I guess on a technical basis the risk goes up for dungeon soloing, but anyone who is good with an Enchanter isn't getting hit on Charm breaks anyway.

"You have been summoned!"

There is no way to avoid being hit by a summoning mob. Either you get summoned and get hit, or if you're in a better position you don't get summoned and still get hit.

Also FD has a 1.5 second cast time, same as color slant (and half a second more than color flux). So Necro won't be more safe on a charm break than an Enchanter. Plus Enchanters should have two runes up at all times, so the channeling nerf only comes into play once you lose both runes. Because you can sit or camp out with a mob beating you, as long as a rune holds you won't be interrupted. That's an over 1000 HP buffer with fresh runes.

[Vaarsuvius]

I love that theyre making channeling more classic. I don't think this is going to have the effect people think on Enchanters specifically though.

If you're getting hit as an Enchanter, then you're not very good at soloing as an Enchanter. I don't even main one or play my alt Enchanter very consistently at all and I can't remember the last time I died.

Nice silly blanket statement here.... Let me give it a try as well:
if you die when you're MT, you're bad


Ever tried playing an enchanter somewhere a bit smaller than South Karana where you have to stand next to your pet ? try Chardok, HS, PoM, Velk, Seb, or Skyshrine among others
ever had to step in melee range so your pet would not eat Enrage or get slowed ?
ever fought a summoning mob and/ or a summoning charmed pet ?

ever had a pet break at all ?

[Jimjam]

At least if you’re standing next to your pet it won’t summon you on break x

[plonkster]

https://i.imgur.com/DizXYoj.png

I'm not sure P99 needs more nerfs.

Getting rid of some major ways of soloing will have the effect of losing a lot of the population that cannot commit extensive time shifts in order to group or raid.

More classic is good. But not at the price of turning Blue and Green into another Red ghost-town.

I don't even play a soloing caster or regularly play on P99 at all. I just like the idea of it being there in case I feel the urge to play again one day.

[Blueberrymuffin]

^

[sammoHung]

"You have been summoned!"

There is no way to avoid being hit by a summoning mob. Either you get summoned and get hit, or if you're in a better position you don't get summoned and still get hit.

Also FD has a 1.5 second cast time, same as color slant (and half a second more than color flux). So Necro won't be more safe on a charm break than an Enchanter. Plus Enchanters should have two runes up at all times, so the channeling nerf only comes into play once you lose both runes. Because you can sit or camp out with a mob beating you, as long as a rune holds you won't be interrupted. That's an over 1000 HP buffer with fresh runes.

You can still get interrupted through Rune / Bedlam / Manaskin

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Enchanters who think they must not be beat upon, as they charm the pet that mows the mobs, is indulging the fantasies of the rest of the group.

I call them beta enchanters. Heaven forbid they should make the fucking cleric and tank work half as much as we do.

I go purple, baby. Deal with it.

[cd288]

"You have been summoned!"

There is no way to avoid being hit by a summoning mob. Either you get summoned and get hit, or if you're in a better position you don't get summoned and still get hit.

Also FD has a 1.5 second cast time, same as color slant (and half a second more than color flux). So Necro won't be more safe on a charm break than an Enchanter. Plus Enchanters should have two runes up at all times, so the channeling nerf only comes into play once you lose both runes. Because you can sit or camp out with a mob beating you, as long as a rune holds you won't be interrupted. That's an over 1000 HP buffer with fresh runes.

I never said Necro would be more safe, think you misunderstood my comment.

Also, it's going to depend on the dungeon/area you're in. You can get FD off in time in a lot of circumstances barring a fizzle.

[sammoHung]

I do wonder how this would affect Shaman face tanking and soloing

All classes that cast during combat will greatly suffer. Shaman will see a huge hit. Hell, even tanks like Paladin / SK. The mathematics of the proposed changes are pretty absurd, based on how it currently stands and Channeling skill's effect on rolls.

As it stands: If you start a cast and get hit mid-cast, you have to make a roll to succeed. Each subsequent hit during cast adds a penalty to your roll. This seems appropriately balanced for a non-classic server.

The changes would mean that every hit you have to perform a new roll. And you have to win ALL of the rolls in order to succeed the cast. I'm not sure how Channeling currently effects your roll chances, but let's say you had a 50% chance to win the roll. And you got hit 4 times between start of cast and end of cast. The probability of you winning all 4 rolls, at 50% odds per roll is 0.5 ^ 4, which is ~6%. If you got hit 8 times, the probability of winning all 8 rolls at 50% odds drops to ~0.3%.

Some things to consider:
Rune / Bedlam, etc does NOT stop spells from being interrupted. You don't take damage, but still have to win rolls to continue cast.
As it stands, with 252 Channeling and level 60, fighting against a level 40-45 mob: I have recorded many instances of 3-4 hits in a round interrupting a cast pretty reliably with the current channeling mechanic. There have been times on my 60 Necro where a green pet with a torch has chunked me down 1k+ HP before I could get a root or Mez off. I've had to kite around to gain enough distance to cast 2.5s Screaming Terror or 1.75s Immobilize, just to make sure I don't get interrupted.


There is no guarantee that you will succeed a cast currently, even with max channeling, even at level 60, even vs. a mob that is 15-20 levels lower than you. There is a guarantee that past a certain number of hits, it will be probabilistically impossible to actually succeed a cast. (Granted, I used a simple example of 50% odds to win, which may not be representative of how the channeling skill weights rolls vs. NPC)

a) I'm not sure that's how classic worked. I'm dubious of the source of most of these "proofs" about how classic worked. It seems nilbog is relying on player logs to implement mechanic changes. I can understand at low levels this being the case - but at 60 with max channeling against a green mob, it should most definitely not be the case.
b) With all of the non-classic "QoL" changes made to this server - why nerf this when there isn't sufficient data to support it. Again, nilbog is cherry picking little pet projects to implement, but we still have rooted dragons, item links in chat, /makeleader, 7 day corpses, etc, etc, etc.
c) and furthermore, the channeling skill is not implemented correctly on saving throws currently. Maybe fix that first?

[sammoHung]

EDIT in bold



There is no guarantee that you will succeed a cast currently, even with max channeling, even at level 60, even vs. a mob that is 15-20 levels lower than you. There is a guarantee that past a certain number of hits, it will be probabilistically impossible to actually succeed a cast with the proposed change.

[kjs86z2]

rip solo

[vales]

So standing in a corner begin casting a 24 second DD spell fom a robe then running around, then standing in same corner to complete the cast will be unaffected?

Outstanding.
that is how casting has always worked, I was doing it in-era

so changing it would be moving away from classic not towards it

[loramin]

All classes that cast during combat will greatly suffer. Shaman will see a huge hit. Hell, even tanks like Paladin / SK. The mathematics of the proposed changes are pretty absurd, based on how it currently stands and Channeling skill's effect on rolls.

As it stands: If you start a cast and get hit mid-cast, you have to make a roll to succeed. Each subsequent hit during cast adds a penalty to your roll. This seems appropriately balanced for a non-classic server.

The changes would mean that every hit you have to perform a new roll. And you have to win ALL of the rolls in order to succeed the cast. I'm not sure how Channeling currently effects your roll chances, but let's say you had a 50% chance to win the roll. And you got hit 4 times between start of cast and end of cast. The probability of you winning all 4 rolls, at 50% odds per roll is 0.5 ^ 4, which is ~6%. If you got hit 8 times, the probability of winning all 8 rolls at 50% odds drops to ~0.3%.

Some things to consider:
Rune / Bedlam, etc does NOT stop spells from being interrupted. You don't take damage, but still have to win rolls to continue cast.
As it stands, with 252 Channeling and level 60, fighting against a level 40-45 mob: I have recorded many instances of 3-4 hits in a round interrupting a cast pretty reliably with the current channeling mechanic. There have been times on my 60 Necro where a green pet with a torch has chunked me down 1k+ HP before I could get a root or Mez off. I've had to kite around to gain enough distance to cast 2.5s Screaming Terror or 1.75s Immobilize, just to make sure I don't get interrupted.


There is no guarantee that you will succeed a cast currently, even with max channeling, even at level 60, even vs. a mob that is 15-20 levels lower than you. There is a guarantee that past a certain number of hits, it will be probabilistically impossible to actually succeed a cast. (Granted, I used a simple example of 50% odds to win, which may not be representative of how the channeling skill weights rolls vs. NPC)

a) I'm not sure that's how classic worked. I'm dubious of the source of most of these "proofs" about how classic worked. It seems nilbog is relying on player logs to implement mechanic changes. I can understand at low levels this being the case - but at 60 with max channeling against a green mob, it should most definitely not be the case.
b) With all of the non-classic "QoL" changes made to this server - why nerf this when there isn't sufficient data to support it. Again, nilbog is cherry picking little pet projects to implement, but we still have rooted dragons, item links in chat, /makeleader, 7 day corpses, etc, etc, etc.
c) and furthermore, the channeling skill is not implemented correctly on saving throws currently. Maybe fix that first?


If you actually played in classic, you'd know that P99 has been unclassic for a very, very long time. As I've repeated often over more than a decade playing here: Enchanters were never the solo gods of classic. Hell, they weren't even in the top 3 of solo classes!

Now you (or anyone) can decide to be like Chicken Little, claim the sky is falling, and blame the people who worked incredibly hard to make this place more classic ... or you can celebrate the fact that, after all this time, you finally get to play classic EverQuest.

I hear it was a pretty good game ... maybe even a better game than the partial re-creation that you've gotten used to?

[Danth]

Shamans were doing West Wastes dragons in-era, but those are mostly solo pulls and can often be pre-slowed before going into melee. What really hurts is brute force type pulls where you need to split a room by pulling 3-5 mobs and rooting them as they whack on you. That shouldn't really be much of a thing. It's also why a charm break on a hasted quadding pet was hugely dangerous--could effectively get locked down by it--and why enchanters weren't a big solo class in the early days even ignoring charm duration irregularities on P99.

Oh, and just wait and see if they fix lull spells to behave more properly, too.

Ignoring all this, would be nice if they got around to fixing spell aggro sometime. Debuff counters still seem borked and doing minimal aggro. Being able to dot/debuff at virtually no risk feels like "EQ for dummies." Hope it gets a look.

That being said, after 16 years on P99 I'd also be fine with them leaving "blue" as-is and restricting these types of major changes to a new server. P99 has its own history at this point, and that history is far longer than the few short years of original-era EQ. Don't think the admins here want to maintain separate codebases though, so that's probably not going to be a thing.

[cd288]

All classes that cast during combat will greatly suffer. Shaman will see a huge hit. Hell, even tanks like Paladin / SK. The mathematics of the proposed changes are pretty absurd, based on how it currently stands and Channeling skill's effect on rolls.

As it stands: If you start a cast and get hit mid-cast, you have to make a roll to succeed. Each subsequent hit during cast adds a penalty to your roll. This seems appropriately balanced for a non-classic server.

The changes would mean that every hit you have to perform a new roll. And you have to win ALL of the rolls in order to succeed the cast. I'm not sure how Channeling currently effects your roll chances, but let's say you had a 50% chance to win the roll. And you got hit 4 times between start of cast and end of cast. The probability of you winning all 4 rolls, at 50% odds per roll is 0.5 ^ 4, which is ~6%. If you got hit 8 times, the probability of winning all 8 rolls at 50% odds drops to ~0.3%.

Some things to consider:
Rune / Bedlam, etc does NOT stop spells from being interrupted. You don't take damage, but still have to win rolls to continue cast.
As it stands, with 252 Channeling and level 60, fighting against a level 40-45 mob: I have recorded many instances of 3-4 hits in a round interrupting a cast pretty reliably with the current channeling mechanic. There have been times on my 60 Necro where a green pet with a torch has chunked me down 1k+ HP before I could get a root or Mez off. I've had to kite around to gain enough distance to cast 2.5s Screaming Terror or 1.75s Immobilize, just to make sure I don't get interrupted.


There is no guarantee that you will succeed a cast currently, even with max channeling, even at level 60, even vs. a mob that is 15-20 levels lower than you. There is a guarantee that past a certain number of hits, it will be probabilistically impossible to actually succeed a cast. (Granted, I used a simple example of 50% odds to win, which may not be representative of how the channeling skill weights rolls vs. NPC)

a) I'm not sure that's how classic worked. I'm dubious of the source of most of these "proofs" about how classic worked. It seems nilbog is relying on player logs to implement mechanic changes. I can understand at low levels this being the case - but at 60 with max channeling against a green mob, it should most definitely not be the case.
b) With all of the non-classic "QoL" changes made to this server - why nerf this when there isn't sufficient data to support it. Again, nilbog is cherry picking little pet projects to implement, but we still have rooted dragons, item links in chat, /makeleader, 7 day corpses, etc, etc, etc.
c) and furthermore, the channeling skill is not implemented correctly on saving throws currently. Maybe fix that first?

I would wonder if those interrupts you're experiencing are due to pushes rather than a channeling interruption?

I do think channeling on P99 is non-classic and has needed an update. It does seem like they may be going non-classic with this update based on the evidence they are using to create the calculation in question. Maybe it will just need a bit of tuning.

[cd288]

If you actually played in classic, you'd know that P99 has been unclassic for a very, very long time. As I've repeated often over more than a decade playing here: Enchanters were never the solo gods of classic. Hell, they weren't even in the top 3 of solo classes!

Now you (or anyone) can decide to be like Chicken Little, claim the sky is falling, and blame the people who worked incredibly hard to make this place more classic ... or you can celebrate the fact that, after all this time, you finally get to play classic EverQuest.

I hear it was a pretty good game ... maybe even a better game than the partial re-creation that you've gotten used to?

My advice to everyone else: Loramin is fun to talk to about certain EverQuest related things. But when he starts talking about classic vs non-classic just don't read his comments as they usually don't offer anything tangible...it's mostly just "I remember things a certain way so that's how it should be."

[spoil]

Rune / Bedlam, etc does NOT stop spells from being interrupted. You don't take damage, but still have to win rolls to continue cast.


Yeah, sorry for the fake news.


Fri Sep 19 22:17:30 2025] Warlord Hikyg says, 'You shall be punished!!'
[Fri Sep 19 22:17:30 2025] Your charm spell has worn off.
[Fri Sep 19 22:17:31 2025] You begin casting Color Slant.
[Fri Sep 19 22:17:31 2025] Your spell is interrupted.
[Fri Sep 19 22:17:31 2025] Warlord Hikyg tries to bash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Fri Sep 19 22:17:31 2025] Warlord Hikyg tries to slash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
...
[Fri Sep 19 22:17:32 2025] Your bedlam fades.


One of the first cases I found in my logs, lol. Embarrassed that I didn't know that, but then again what sticks in my memory are the times that I died. Also weird how sit/camp isn't interrupted, but channeling is.


I can understand at low levels this being the case - but at 60 with max channeling against a green mob, it should most definitely not be the case


I also thought they implemented more classic channeling on TAKP/PQ? Because what you're saying echoes my experience on PQ. Channeling was super difficult at lower levels getting interrupted by a lava beetle, then progressively easier as the channeling skill got higher.

I remember camping Lord in lguk in the mid-late 40s and being able to get off a DA with several mobs beating on me, or a stun and root to deal with a single, no big deal. And these mobs at worst were only a few levels below me.

[Danth]

I do think channeling on P99 is non-classic and has needed an update. It does seem like they may be going non-classic with this update based on the evidence they are using to create the calculation in question. Maybe it will just need a bit of tuning.

That's the fear everyone has, I think, that they'll over-do it then leave it that way. Given P99's history that's a fair thing to be concerned about. As players all we can do is make our feelings known then wait and see.

[Vivitron]

The train method works because mobs in those areas of Chardok don't summon despite being 51+.

Is that based on classic evidence?

[sammoHung]

I would wonder if those interrupts you're experiencing are due to pushes rather than a channeling interruption?



good question - I will have to fire up a shaman (with torpor for safety) to test this.

[sammoHung]

That's the fear everyone has, I think, that they'll over-do it then leave it that way. Given P99's history that's a fair thing to be concerned about. As players all we can do is make our feelings known then wait and see.

That's my fear. That this will be WAY overtuned, and will disrupt gameplay OUTSIDE of soloing.

IE: your knight tank can't get a spell off because Channeling is now broken.

Or in a group, when you have a bad pull and a priest pulls aggro - Priest can no longer root mob and run away.

[Bukowski]

I didn't bother to read any of it, but cry harder.

[cd288]

That's my fear. That this will be WAY overtuned, and will disrupt gameplay OUTSIDE of soloing.

IE: your knight tank can't get a spell off because Channeling is now broken.

Or in a group, when you have a bad pull and a priest pulls aggro - Priest can no longer root mob and run away.

Fair point. While casting while being hit was difficult on live, it certainly wasn't impossible. Hybrid tanks would've never been able to cast if it was.

[loramin]

There are two distinct possibilities here. Either Nilbog is a moron who has decided to release an unclassic game-breaking patch after over a decade of responsibly stewarding this entire project ..

... or he's making a reasonable change to make things more classic (as he's done with every other release) ... and sammohung should change his name to sammoChickenLittle :D

[Duik]

There are two distinct possibilities here. Either Nilbog is a moron who has decided to release an unclassic game-breaking patch after over a decade of responsibly stewarding this entire project ..

... or he's making a reasonable change to make things more classic (as he's done with every other release) ... and sammohung should change his name to sammoChickenLittle :D

Exactly the second option please.
Rogean may be many things but an idiot is not one of them.

Also. If sammoHungLikeABee is right, i may get a sky belt from it!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I didn't bother to read any of it, but cry harder.

So far no one has used the acronym "QoL" so we're good, I'm keeping an eye.

The Uber You movement is an evergreen, and so must our fight against it be eternal.

[sammoHung]

There are two distinct possibilities here. Either Nilbog is a moron who has decided to release an unclassic game-breaking patch after over a decade of responsibly stewarding this entire project ..

... or he's making a reasonable change to make things more classic (as he's done with every other release) ... and sammohung should change his name to sammoChickenLittle :D

Who pissed in your coffee?

You don't even play p99 anymore, do you? You're a forum poster, with no real knowledge of the server in it's current state.

So sit down, shut up and go back to your hole that you crawled out of.

[druidbob]

There are two distinct possibilities here. Either Nilbog is a moron who has decided to release an unclassic game-breaking patch after over a decade of responsibly stewarding this entire project ..

... or he's making a reasonable change to make things more classic (as he's done with every other release) ... and sammohung should change his name to sammoChickenLittle :D

Look, mad respect to Nilbog and the p99 team, but let's not sit here and pretend that every change and update made over the years has been purely to make the game more classic. Rooted dragons are not classic. Lifetap nerf is not classic. Adding casting times to previously instant click items was not classic. "But people didn't use those strats on live!" Is not the same thing as "this was not possible to do on live." But hey, at least we can't see dot damage anymore, right?

[Jimjam]

I don’t see why csr / raid / clicky* driven non-classic changes mean we can’t embrace changes from non-classic to more / true classic.


*for the record I’m not personally a fan of nerfing lifetaps or clicky cast times / buy backs for the sake of influencing end game raiding, but it’s not my server to make that call.

[Mortdecai99]

GMs are not supposed to enter Veeshan's Peak.

[druidbob]

I don’t see why csr / raid / clicky* driven non-classic changes mean we can’t embrace changes from non-classic to more / true classic.


*for the record I’m not personally a fan of nerfing lifetaps or clicky cast times / buy backs for the sake of influencing end game raiding, but it’s not my server to make that call.

I'm not arguing for or against those particular changes, but the fact that they were added fundamentally makes this a non classic server, so to turn around and act purist about things like dot damage and pet windows seems silly. It's always the changes that reduce QoL that seem to draw the most "too bad not classic, deal with it" responses.

[cd288]

There are two distinct possibilities here. Either Nilbog is a moron who has decided to release an unclassic game-breaking patch after over a decade of responsibly stewarding this entire project ..

... or he's making a reasonable change to make things more classic (as he's done with every other release) ... and sammohung should change his name to sammoChickenLittle :D

No one cares Loramin

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Who pissed in your coffee?

You don't even play p99 anymore, do you? You're a forum poster, with no real knowledge of the server in it's current state.

So sit down, shut up and go back to your hole that you crawled out of.

Yeah, but maybe that's BECAUSE HE WORKS.

Wait. It's 2026. People still are working? Damn. Make some plans, jeez.

Let's not quarrel.

Serious question. What do any of us have that each of us don't have either figuratively or literally?

[Sonderbeast]

You have people in Chardok?

[Duik]

GMs are not supposed to enter Veeshan's Peak.

To help people. There, its fixed.

[loramin]

Who pissed in your coffee?

You don't even play p99 anymore, do you? You're a forum poster, with no real knowledge of the server in it's current state.

So sit down, shut up and go back to your hole that you crawled out of.

https://media.tenor.com/oLK09d-46t4AAAAM/sean-astin-wwg.gif