ive been playing monsters and memories for 2 nights now

[Wakanda]

it honestly feels like 1999 everquest with better graphics, and if the game was just... dare i say... better? lots of quality of life things i notice

rogues having stealth and backstab at level 1, enchanters having haste, mez etc at level 1. like you you are more immediately class defining rather than waiting for hours of playing before your rogue isnt just a wizard without spells or your enchanter isnt a meme class

also better starter gear / low level quests, but these arent really game breaking and a lot of the drops are so rare you'll level out of it long before you ever see it (emerald drake questline is like the scarab breastplate / helm etc quest on steroids in terms of availability)

definitely larger zones and more camps, but the game looks/feels/plays like eq

kind of remarkable honestly that they could make a game this close to the OG.

anyone else trying this out?

also cracked staffs are still a thing. silver is the new platinum of course, but 2 silver starting out is huge. that's a freaking satchel.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Ruining Everquest's near-perfect lvl 1-10 mini-game is not enticing.

In fact, I can argue messing with the lvl 1-10 mini-game is the quickest way to hellfire, damnation, and Satan, if your interest is in classic everquest.

When Judas betrayed our Lord, it was largely because he was tired of the starting levels. "Become the God King NOW, dude, NOW." But Jesus was not min/maxing his quest.

But maybe you think you are better than the Son of God? It is a much better game, admittedly. Jesus is tapping us out for 2k+ years now. When's the God King yo?

[Meeper]

So it's like a WoW version of EQ?

[kjs86z2]

Just play Fellowship.

[Jontheripper]

So it's like a WoW version of EQ?

Nah, there's no map, no compass, no floating marks above npcs to show quests. When you zone in for the first time it's like dropping into a foreign world you will have to explore a bunch to even find your guild or a guy that will buy your vendor trash.

Class defining spells and abilities are introduced earlier but grouping at level 4 is kinda necessary instead of soloing a thousand blues.

[shovelquest]

Should be interesting to see if the broader MMO/retro games community picks this up as one of their own, or if it remains in an everquest area.

Would be cool to see runescape and DOC and other old school MMO fans united.

[Findlyn]

Nah, there's no map, no compass, no floating marks above npcs to show quests. When you zone in for the first time it's like dropping into a foreign world you will have to explore a bunch to even find your guild or a guy that will buy your vendor trash.

Class defining spells and abilities are introduced earlier but grouping at level 4 is kinda necessary instead of soloing a thousand blues.

If anything, EQ seems like the easy mode compared to MnM. Very similar ruleset, except more punishing. You have to keep a spare spell book in bank or cant do spells on a CR. Cant even sell vendor trash except to specific vendors. Like meat to butcher npcs, trash weapons to like smiths, etc. Also, I would say the night blindness is even less forgiving then for humans on P99

[Reiwa]

If anything, EQ seems like the easy mode compared to MnM. Very similar ruleset, except more punishing. You have to keep a spare spell book in bank or cant do spells on a CR. Cant even sell vendor trash except to specific vendors. Like meat to butcher npcs, trash weapons to like smiths, etc. Also, I would say the night blindness is even less forgiving then for humans on P99

Oh hell yes! I'm gonna sell some pelts to the furrier! :)

[sammoHung]

Nah, there's no map, no compass, no floating marks above npcs to show quests. When you zone in for the first time it's like dropping into a foreign world you will have to explore a bunch to even find your guild or a guy that will buy your vendor trash.

Class defining spells and abilities are introduced earlier but grouping at level 4 is kinda necessary instead of soloing a thousand blues.

i remember playing the playtest, i had to actually read signs in the town to find out where the class trainer was - it was very immersive. no /find, no map markers.. just reading artwork to decipher my location and the location of my destination

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Did you say... cr?

[Jontheripper]

Did you say... cr?


yes but not baby CR like wow or eq, you lose your spellbook too

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

God help me. I'm going to try it.

[Rygar]

yes but not baby CR like wow or eq, you lose your spellbook too

I see the future:

Patch Notes 3/16/2027:
...
A new guild has emerged in the local towns, the Conjurers of Fate have appeared. Visit them so they can assist you in retrieving specific items off your corpse... But be prepared to pay the price.
...


People will praise it, then eventually realize how water downed the world has become where danger and loss are just mere words and not threats.

P99 has this same sickness. Guides should NEVER summon decayrd corpses to EC. Bring back real death

[Ekco]

naw, it's just bad game design.

pve mmorpgs aren't built around the concept of full corpse loss on a timer their endless treadmills by design and putting the onus on a single class mechanic like necro summon is also bad.

you can count on one hand with fingers left over the amount of high concept experimental shit like that has actually worked in the history of this genre and that's with devs actually thinking about the problem and actually trying to do it and they still failed, something EQ devs didn't even have time really to think about or make work

they made a cobbled together fantasy theme park and shipped it

the only time ive seen that stuff actually work is in low fantasy pvp games where it's like oh no i lost a full suit of platemail and a +1 sword "oh well" or oh no i lost my ship in eve online that's a bit different than losing a decade worth of raid loot because you didn't log in for a week

[Rygar]

naw, it's just bad game design.

pve mmorpgs aren't built around the concept of full corpse loss on a timer their endless treadmills by design and putting the onus on a single class mechanic like necro summon is also bad.

you can count on one hand with fingers left over the amount of high concept experimental shit like that has actually worked in the history of this genre and that's with devs actually thinking about the problem and actually trying to do it and they still failed, something EQ devs didn't even have time really to think about or make work

they made a cobbled together fantasy theme park and shipped it

the only time ive seen that stuff actually work is in low fantasy pvp games where it's like oh no i lost a full suit of platemail and a +1 sword "oh well" or oh no i lost my ship in eve online that's a bit different than losing a decade worth of raid loot because you didn't log in for a week

The idea of corpse loss and fear of losing all your hard work was a feature of classic EQ that drove a lot of us to do late night CR or not participate in late night batphone type content. You don't see that in the care near generation of games anymore because "we can't frustrate our user base with a negative experience"

ST and VP keys were not soul bound in era, which added dire risk to those zones should you have a bad wipe

To argue against these things on this server is ridiculous and proves micro penis status

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

There is a market for fear, Mr. Ekco. Perhaps you have forgotten. Perhaps you have grown too soft.

We shall put you in the Agonizer to jostle your memory.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://i.imgur.com/zBwMNmT.jpeg

I should hope so.

[Ekco]

i do enjoy it though in single player or multiplayer i just think it was/is terribly executed in EQ because it was never meant to be that and wasn't iterated on in the direction at all. It was moving at all times toward what WoW would be and do better as a theme park that printed cash for the companies

only time this stuff actually works is in games purposely designed for it as the stated goal by the devs

[Ekco]

forgot RnF doesn't have edit

you brought up VP key, yeah my dude that was a oversight by the devs and was quickly patched out,

"The Key of Veeshan in EverQuest became soulbound, or more accurately, was changed to remain with the character upon death rather than dropping with the corpse, in a patch around July 19th, 2000. "

as with everything else that caused friction for the playerbase in any way because that's what everquest was designed to be

[kjs86z2]

The idea of corpse loss and fear of losing all your hard work was a feature of classic EQ that drove a lot of us to do late night CR or not participate in late night batphone type content. You don't see that in the care near generation of games anymore because "we can't frustrate our user base with a negative experience"

ST and VP keys were not soul bound in era, which added dire risk to those zones should you have a bad wipe

To argue against these things on this server is ridiculous and proves micro penis status

its 2025 not 2000

aint nobody got time for that no mo'

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://i.imgur.com/LIBMb6U.jpeg

[Ennewi]

I see the future:


People will praise it, then eventually realize how water downed the world has become where danger and loss are just mere words and not threats.

P99 has this same sickness. Guides should NEVER summon decayrd corpses to EC. Bring back real death

At the very least, there ought to be a quest associated with the reward of having one's decayed corpse returned to the world.

[Dollar]

Lol the goblin faces are great.

[Rygar]

forgot RnF doesn't have edit

you brought up VP key, yeah my dude that was a oversight by the devs and was quickly patched out,

"The Key of Veeshan in EverQuest became soulbound, or more accurately, was changed to remain with the character upon death rather than dropping with the corpse, in a patch around July 19th, 2000. "

as with everything else that caused friction for the playerbase in any way because that's what everquest was designed to be

ST key was not soul bound until March 2002. Check bug reports

[Rygar]

At the very least, there ought to be a quest associated with the reward of having one's decayed corpse returned to the world.

Give an inch and they will take a mile. Teachers let you hand in homework late with no penalty and take open book tests. We can't keep pandering to this generation of softies. It's time for 99 to '01 because that is what we are here for

[Ekco]

i just checked my calendar instead

sydg a time machine and just a custom box for casuals instead.

[Ekco]

It's time for 99 to '01 because that is what we are here for
you*

my evidence for this is actual reality, you can login and see for yourself, or at any point in the project's 16 year history. i literally remember rog casting KEI on me and my group in DL on kunark lunch on blue, this thing has always been whatever the fuck they actually want it to be at any given time and has at no point been what you claim.

[Rygar]

Literal stated mission of server is to recreate EQ as it was 99 to 01. You taking some GM event launch event buff as proof of something is just lame sauce.

And don't berg about rooted dragons, raid meta forced their hand there, although I would prefer they undo and expressly state what kill strats are "go or no go". I am against lifetap nerfs as well, that had many other fixes available at the time that didn't gimp class mechanics.

Very few "non-classic" changes I am in favor of, recharge nerf I am. To call this a "server wife raid meta" is just ridiculous and a clear case of time-lock knowledge exploits.

I mean also, stop pretending like CR is hard when everyone has epic cleric bots set to log in to every zone. Who even uses necros to summon corpses on p99? GM corpse summoning is borderline exploit, as is item reimbursement.

You get a rare item to drop but lore? Corpse it and let it decay, ask for gm ec summon later. Or just destroy it and wait in petition queue for a GM to give you a new one (after you already sold the previous one of course)

[Ennewi]

Give an inch and they will take a mile. Teachers let you hand in homework late with no penalty and take open book tests. We can't keep pandering to this generation of softies. It's time for 99 to '01 because that is what we are here for

If nothing else, it could be a meaningful feature of new green. No corpse summons, at least not until server merge.

The fact that the corpses are dumped at the Freeport/EC zoneline adds to convenience on top of removing the original worry of loss. Corpse poofing leans towards hardcore mode. Your character isn't mortal, but that underlying risk informs every decision.

[onmove_broke]

While the game looks fun, a few things are pretty much no-go's for me. First, the subscription. Other than WOW I do not know of any games charging a monthly sub. Second, the CR's, fear of losing all your stuff etc is only for certain people. Only people who play here are really going to be into something like this, which limits the player base.

I am not sure how bad the grind will be, but if it is worse than P1999, it's gonna be rough since nobody is twinked to the gills or has 4 alts they can buff with.

All things considered, I can see this game coming out of the gate strong, then petering out like Red did because people lost interest. I remember when Red was 2k strong and bled players out weekly till it was under 400 and now rarely breaks 50.

Why ply an unpolished EQ clone for $15 a month when you can play EQ for free?

[shovelquest]

If nothing else, it could be a meaningful feature of new green. No corpse summons, at least not until server merge.

The fact that the corpses are dumped at the Freeport/EC zoneline adds to convenience on top of removing the original worry of loss. Corpse poofing leans towards hardcore mode. Your character isn't mortal, but that underlying risk informs every decision.

I thought we’d have a discord server by meow :(

[Ekco]

Literal stated mission of server is to recreate EQ as it was 99 to 01. You taking some GM event launch event buff as proof of something is just lame sauce.


no, it's just a random example cited in a long laundry list, some of which you listed that all go counter to the claim "Literal stated mission of server is to recreate EQ as it was 99 to 01." and there's pages worth if you actually listed them all.

you're mad about people A) getting the corpse summons at all and B) people exploiting the service, exploits themsleves are "classic" if the goal is as it was in 99 to 01 so should plat or corpse's themsleves being duped be allowed? it an absurd arguement because we're already so far down the slippery slope of fanpatched custom changes in ingame mechanics and QOL

[Rygar]

Worst troll I seen in a while. "Duping plat classic bro lolz, prove me wrong".

[Ekco]

it's equally as absurd as giving a shit that people are corpsing items lol,

i'm not the one making all the claims about the server being classic or it shouild be, or the mission statement mattering at all, that's you.

my counter was "lol do you even play here, log in and look around, what the fuck are you talking about" basically. then you said no no you can't use the hundreds of examples of the server not being classic

so at this point idk what the fuck you're even trying to say other than "CSR corpse summons bad"

[shovelquest]

Corpsing items is awesome.

[Wakanda]

Ruining Everquest's near-perfect lvl 1-10 mini-game is not enticing.
im on day 4 and im level 11. i solo'd 85% of that. good luck. if this was p99 even without being twinked my iksar necromacner would be 20+ :eek:

[Wakanda]

If anything, EQ seems like the easy mode compared to MnM.

This 100%. I could invite any of my casual friends to P99 right now and they would make fun of me and be like why did boomers think this was hard? conversely I'm on like 100+ hours and am just hitting level 11. I realize if I invited the same exact friends, even with infravision, they would all rage quit before hitting level 3 in the noob yard. dead ass!!!

[Wakanda]

This 100%. I could invite any of my casual friends to P99 right now and they would make fun of me and be like why did boomers think this was hard? conversely I'm on like 100+ hours and am just hitting level 11. I realize if I invited the same exact friends, even with infravision, they would all rage quit before hitting level 3 in the noob yard. dead ass!!!

Something that triggers me too lmao, on a side note. All these "hardcore" EQ veterans desperately begging for starter weapons... like bro, are you sure you wouldn't rather just play World of Warcraft? Of course the same exact people are on the discord demanding maps, and zero faction because in-game racism is hateful lmao

world war 3 cant get here soon enough because these kids needed it yesterday

[cd288]

Maybe try inviting Paisley to play RecondoJoe. She seemed to enjoy these types of games

[kjs86z2]

Maybe try inviting Paisley to play RecondoJoe. She seemed to enjoy these types of games

her and i play overwatch

[greengoblin]

They copied a lot from Everquest including the meditation skill to boost recovery. Also many of the same classes and races and similar stories that resemble dark elves. Im not trying to poop on anyones porch here but I would be very skeptical that this game will survive long term with EQ being such a large IP. I just think that it is too similar and their game will eventually get shut down and sued. It's one thing to say yeah we have an enchanter class with the same purpose and spells but another when almost the entire game is a low budgets copy. Its a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Zadrian]

Solid first post dawg.

[shovelquest]

They copied a lot from Everquest including the meditation skill to boost recovery. Also many of the same classes and races and similar stories that resemble dark elves. Im not trying to poop on anyones porch here but I would be very skeptical that this game will survive long term with EQ being such a large IP. I just think that it is too similar and their game will eventually get shut down and sued. It's one thing to say yeah we have an enchanter class with the same purpose and spells but another when almost the entire game is a low budgets copy. Its a lawsuit waiting to happen.

well with daybreak going after anyone who does anything cool with their IP.

and live being the absolute pile of horse shit that it is they don't have very tough competition.

[Ekco]

Solid first post dawg.

+1

the MnM thing does remind me of the old street fighter II lawsuit

Those who forget their Fighters History, are doomed to repeat it.
kGnutyhfIL0

[Meeper]

Today I Learned that Ryu is not pronounced "Rye-you".

[Cecily]

Today I Learned that Ryu is not pronounced "Rye-you".
It sounds close tbh. This is a good video:


Fv1xHPk7fqE

[OriginalContentGuy]

My gaming laptop has decidedly old hardware. What's the min requirements to experience M&M?

P99 can run on a sweet potato

[Zadrian]

My gaming laptop has decidedly old hardware. What's the min requirements to experience M&M?

P99 can run on a sweet potato


System Requirements

Information regarding minimum specifications is fairly limited since we’re still optimizing the game, but here’s our current requirements and recommendations:

[Required] Windows 10 version 21H1 (build 19043) or higher

[Recommended] 16gb of RAM

[Recommended] A modern-ish CPU

[Recommended] NVIDIA GeForce 1060 (6 GB VRAM) equivalent or higher

Dedicated GPUs with lower specs and some integrated GPUs may suffice, but performance will be limited. Consider the following tips to get the most out of your setup:

[Wakanda]

I also want to point out that there are a ton of P99 players on MnM. Castle is already a guild on the Relle server ;)

[Wakanda]

My gaming laptop has decidedly old hardware. What's the min requirements to experience M&M?

P99 can run on a sweet potato
I honestly don't know. The play test is over and I kind of wished I tried it on my 10 year old burner laptop because it's hardware is almost identical to the minimum requirements. I upgraded from a 5800x to a 9800x3d processor during this playtest and it almost doubled my FPS, but the game was super playable on a 5800x. Someone said the processor matters more than the GPU for this game and I honestly believe it.

There also aren't a ton of optimization options yet either.

The graphics are misleading because if you just glance on youtube you see the old school character models and think the graphics are going to be bad, but then when you log into the game you quickly realize that the environment, lighting and environmental effects feel 20+ years ahead of any other MMO on the market.

[Bones]

While the game looks fun, a few things are pretty much no-go's for me. First, the subscription. Other than WOW I do not know of any games charging a monthly sub. Second, the CR's, fear of losing all your stuff etc is only for certain people. Only people who play here are really going to be into something like this, which limits the player base.

I am not sure how bad the grind will be, but if it is worse than P1999, it's gonna be rough since nobody is twinked to the gills or has 4 alts they can buff with.

All things considered, I can see this game coming out of the gate strong, then petering out like Red did because people lost interest. I remember when Red was 2k strong and bled players out weekly till it was under 400 and now rarely breaks 50.

Why ply an unpolished EQ clone for $15 a month when you can play EQ for free?

Unpolished EQ clone is an absolutely absurd remark. MnM is definitely more polished than classic era EQ, and its not particularly close. Your other points really are your opinions so have so I'm not going to bother critiquing them but to be honest it sounds like you are passing judgements as someone who literally never tried it out.

Also the Red comparison is just ridiculous. EQ PVP was always largely unpopular, because the game wasn't originally designed with PVP in mind. Even the old VZTZ boxes before p99 existed never really broke more than couple hundred players at their peaks. P99 came out and exploded pretty much immediately despite VZTZ iterations being around for years on EQEmu.

MnM also has a pvp server and I can almost guarantee its going to suffer the same fate as Red and and the VZTZ boxes before it. That doesnt mean its PVE servers are going to have the same problem.

Its got something going for it that p99 or any classic EQ private server never will. Completely brand new game, new world, new content, but plays very similarly in style, and its done in the Unity engine which actually looks pretty good. Not saying its going to have 100k+ subscriptions and compete with big name MMO's but to assume its going to rapidly fizzle out like a classic EQ pvp server is crazy tbh.

They also have quite a long timeline already planned out for gradual new content releases which is always encouraging for potential players.

[shovelquest]

The halfling warriors I was watching a a week or 2 ago on youtube had little backpacks and it was cute as.

[Ekco]

Unpolished EQ clone is an absolutely absurd remark.

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.

[Ekco]

wasn't*

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.

Our needs are so simple, too
https://i.imgur.com/mTPpcks.jpeg

[Ennewi]

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.

Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...You can't get fooled again.

[Ennewi]

Unpolished EQ clone is an absolutely absurd remark. MnM is definitely more polished than classic era EQ, and its not particularly close.

UI, dwarf barrel roll, cat rooms, cracked staff paydirt, etc. Uninspiring copy/paste.

For the many classes available, somehow it still feels lacking. Yes, early development can and will leave that impression but still.

Using paladins as an example...

Paladins do have shield toss and slam, so that gives more reason to equip a shield this time around but still limited because you can't toss, say, a tower shield. A charge ability would have better suited the shieldbearing class, adding burst mobility and more damage/style points to the attack, with potential for stun, knockback/down, etc. without limiting the shield type. Lay on Hands could have healed based on the paladin's HP pool, cured disease/poison/debuffs, and applied a rune effect for any overhealing, so the ability wouldn't necessarily be wasted on lower level unbuffed players. Instead, it just heals for X amount of HP, a large number but nothing that can be altered, nothing that encourages the player to feel motivated to test builds and get creative with their gear.

Apparently, paladins also get undead snare in addition to undead fear which will let them solo the way rangers do here, except versus a mob type that will probably be less common. They also get a brief frontal cone mez, but only the one spell early on, its reliability questionable later? Mark of the Crusader is just Mark of Karn. Deflect is just a watered down Sanctification as a spell rather than disc. Divine Aegis is temp invulnerability again but this time it prevents all other magical effects of its kind from being applied for 1min, so no DA idol, Dain's orders, etc. Supplication is just Yaulp without attack, AC, or stamina return. The entire line only increases STR. Overall, disappointing and not different enough from the EQ version to consider leveling. Vanguard, for example, granted the class any one of three auras to benefit their party and an offensive/defensive target, enabling rescue. Those features right there already offer more than what was listed above.

But there are so many other games to lift ideas from, not even other MMOs but action RPGs, that would make gameplay more engaging and fun to watch.


Its got something going for it that p99 or any classic EQ private server never will. Completely brand new game, new world, new content, but plays very similarly in style

FWIW multiple EQ veteran players in various discord channels have commented saying that the novelty wore off within the first couple of hours and that the "sandwich gameplay" got boring fast, which is saying something coming from players willing to sock p99 windows. This is the supposed demographic and many of them aren't sold on it. A few are, but the niche won't have enough of a cult to fill its world if it's only appealing to a fraction of this aging playerbase.

[Ennewi]

UI, dwarf barrel roll, cat rooms, cracked staff paydirt, etc. Uninspiring copy/paste.

Also, their version of Kelethin is a 1:1 at first glance. Really? Why not have all the trees burnt, dead, or dying, overtaken by silkworms? With the city being rebuilt amid that pervasive threat/stubborn blemish. Then it still could have been a familiar setting but not too samey. And then there would be widespread environmental storytelling that players couldn't ignore.

There are a lot of these missed opportunities that shouldn't need to be pointed out.

Like, I just had biryani for the first time recently and as someone who eats rice dishes regularly, it was a pleasant surprise that took some getting used to. Same base ingredient. Rice. And yet wildly different, practically in its own category. Cooks understand this, why can't devs?

[shovelquest]

what is sandwich gameplay?

[Ennewi]

what is sandwich gameplay?

Like sandwich foreplay but less multitasking involved.

S449KdjPKrY?si=tvF-_Vvh7JyeRS1y

[Wakanda]

The halfling warriors I was watching a a week or 2 ago on youtube had little backpacks and it was cute as.

Mhm! Backpack is a huge upgrade compared to the belt pouches too. Was a big deal when I got my first one!

https://i.ibb.co/s9t2cnfy/freddy.jpg

There's an option in-game to hide it, but it looks so cool on my Goblin that I left it on, lol.

[shovelquest]

I bought a wrist pouch for my first purchase on live in 1999.

I wanted to kill myself when i realized i couldn't equip it on my wrist slot.

[shovelquest]

Petition to make these things equipable, and backbacks to go into the back slot. And wasit pouches to go on the belt slot.

https://i.imgur.com/9FiEXPf.png

[Wakanda]

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.No hate, but I'm actually surprised you didn't like Night Harbor. Did you try it in the recent play test? Because when I saw MnM in previous play tests.... I actually didn't try it because of how raw and unfinished it look. This was my first play test and I actually got chills because Night Harbor is basically how I pictured Freeport if it was a real place (I used to day dream about Norrath being a real place as a kid). Especially at night time. Looks so real with all the darkness and lighting.

But I'll be honest I did start in the elf town and spent an entire night just wandering around exploring the forest because of how huge and how much cool stuff was in it. Really reminded me of a modern GFAY. The boat ride over was insane too, it's not boring like it is in P99, it feels more like you're on an amusement ride. Of course the boat dumped me in the ocean when I zoned into Sanded Dune, which is basically Oasis. I remember being dumbfounded when I swam to shore and realized they had the Oasis zone in the game ... again, it's how I would imagine Oasis of Marr if it were a real place. The sunsets coming off the ocean are so blinding and real it's insane to me.

[Wakanda]

Also, their version of Kelethin is a 1:1 at first glance. Really? Why not have all the trees burnt, dead, or dying, overtaken by silkworms? With the city being rebuilt amid that pervasive threat/stubborn blemish. Then it still could have been a familiar setting but not too samey. And then there would be widespread environmental storytelling that players couldn't ignore.

There are a lot of these missed opportunities that shouldn't need to be pointed out.

Like, I just had biryani for the first time recently and as someone who eats rice dishes regularly, it was a pleasant surprise that took some getting used to. Same base ingredient. Rice. And yet wildly different, practically in its own category. Cooks understand this, why can't devs?I'm not sure if you're being serious right now? I spent probably 8 hours exploring the new elf zone because it's that huge and just when you think you've seen it all, you come across something entirely new. The city itself is so massive I can't even think of a city in Norrath to compare it to because none of them close in size. There are areas of the city that have been over-run by spiders, so the guards cut the bridges to stop the spread and high levels can venture into this area to grind exp. There are so many more lifts and each one of them lead to an area of the zone that is unique and completely different. In GFAY you have basically one orc camp that can sustain a single group.

In Evershade Weald there are enough unique and interesting camps to sustain hundreds of players. Some of the lifts lead you to the newby zone, other's lead you to very high level areas of the game, others lead you to a mountainous / cave area, as you actually explore the zone there's all kinds of fallen logs with Mushroom men, lots of areas with orc camps, crypts with undead, I mean it's just this massive place compared to Gfay, you could literally walk around for 6 hours and not even see half of the content in said zone, not to mention it's attached to a zone that is very similar to West Karana.

That's one of the problems with P99 even to this day, if you don't get a group in Unrest, there are no other zones to level in, whereas on Antonica you can always grind in Oasis, Karana, Beholder's Maze, Lavastorm etc. On P99 .. on Faydwer you basically get in the one group for your level range in Unrest or you don't really level your character passed level 12.

Also Evershade Weald has lakes and rivers, you can actually fish and what not. I remember always being confused as a kid when I would look at the map and see bodies of water in Faydwer, yet there were none in game. The docks in Felwithe never made sense to me... be cause where did they go to?

Also the elven city isn't even finished. As you get to the top of the elven city there's another elevator that takes you even higher to an unfinished area. You are so high up at this point it's actually scary, it feels like being on top of the world's tallest building etc.

I really don't understand how anyone could even confuse this place with a exact copy of Kelethin. The newby lift alone is several hundred feet in the air, there's no falling from the top and surviving even if you are max level.

Also it's cool how the forest is much darker than the Night Harbor area. Explains the Infravision I guess.

[Wakanda]

UI, dwarf barrel roll, cat rooms, cracked staff paydirt, etc. Uninspiring copy/paste.

For the many classes available, somehow it still feels lacking. Yes, early development can and will leave that impression but still.

Using paladins as an example...

Paladins do have shield toss and slam, so that gives more reason to equip a shield this time around but still limited because you can't toss, say, a tower shield. A charge ability would have better suited the shieldbearing class, adding burst mobility and more damage/style points to the attack, with potential for stun, knockback/down, etc. without limiting the shield type. Lay on Hands could have healed based on the paladin's HP pool, cured disease/poison/debuffs, and applied a rune effect for any overhealing, so the ability wouldn't necessarily be wasted on lower level unbuffed players. Instead, it just heals for X amount of HP, a large number but nothing that can be altered, nothing that encourages the player to feel motivated to test builds and get creative with their gear.

Apparently, paladins also get undead snare in addition to undead fear which will let them solo the way rangers do here, except versus a mob type that will probably be less common. They also get a brief frontal cone mez, but only the one spell early on, its reliability questionable later? Mark of the Crusader is just Mark of Karn. Deflect is just a watered down Sanctification as a spell rather than disc. Divine Aegis is temp invulnerability again but this time it prevents all other magical effects of its kind from being applied for 1min, so no DA idol, Dain's orders, etc. Supplication is just Yaulp without attack, AC, or stamina return. The entire line only increases STR. Overall, disappointing and not different enough from the EQ version to consider leveling. Vanguard, for example, granted the class any one of three auras to benefit their party and an offensive/defensive target, enabling rescue. Those features right there already offer more than what was listed above.

But there are so many other games to lift ideas from, not even other MMOs but action RPGs, that would make gameplay more engaging and fun to watch.




FWIW multiple EQ veteran players in various discord channels have commented saying that the novelty wore off within the first couple of hours and that the "sandwich gameplay" got boring fast, which is saying something coming from players willing to sock p99 windows. This is the supposed demographic and many of them aren't sold on it. A few are, but the niche won't have enough of a cult to fill its world if it's only appealing to a fraction of this aging playerbase.

This is legitimate feedback, hopefully you post it somewhere that devs can read it. I don't play a Paladin but I'm not crazy about them pigeon holing the class into being the shield class since I envision them as the class that wielded the Fiery Avenger. But I guess they may reason that it's okay because the shield doesn't actually have to be equipped in order to use (some?) of the shield abilities.

The only thing I disagree with with this sentiment (since the rest is legitimate feedback) is that they need to make this game more like an action RPG. Which again, I may be misinterpreting what you meant by that, if so, I apologize. I actually play a lot of Retail WoW, even actively played it prior to MnM launched (canceled sub afterwards). It's not that I don't appreciate action RPGs, it's just that like.... IDK, there's something super chill and relaxing about MnM that I really enjoy. Sitting on a beach in Sanded Dunes drinking coffee, listening to some good music, just casually grinding some EXP out. You don't really get that type of vibe from WoW where you're constantly mashing buttons as fast as you can and can't even glance at your character or your environment because you're too busy staring at the cooldowns on your abilities the entire time. Zero down time and no incentive to just chill out in the world somewhere, sharing a campfire with complete strangers, trading buffs and heals, chit chatting about the world and the game.

You just don't get this from an action RPG. I think it's fine to have the genres separate. I think there's enough space for both.

[Wakanda]

Unpolished EQ clone is an absolutely absurd remark. MnM is definitely more polished than classic era EQ, and its not particularly close. Your other points really are your opinions so have so I'm not going to bother critiquing them but to be honest it sounds like you are passing judgements as someone who literally never tried it out.

Also the Red comparison is just ridiculous. EQ PVP was always largely unpopular, because the game wasn't originally designed with PVP in mind. Even the old VZTZ boxes before p99 existed never really broke more than couple hundred players at their peaks. P99 came out and exploded pretty much immediately despite VZTZ iterations being around for years on EQEmu.

MnM also has a pvp server and I can almost guarantee its going to suffer the same fate as Red and and the VZTZ boxes before it. That doesnt mean its PVE servers are going to have the same problem.

Its got something going for it that p99 or any classic EQ private server never will. Completely brand new game, new world, new content, but plays very similarly in style, and its done in the Unity engine which actually looks pretty good. Not saying its going to have 100k+ subscriptions and compete with big name MMO's but to assume its going to rapidly fizzle out like a classic EQ pvp server is crazy tbh.

They also have quite a long timeline already planned out for gradual new content releases which is always encouraging for potential players.

Yeah the PvP server looked DOA to me, and I have no interest in it even though I love the PvP in WoW. For me the reason EQ was such a superior game in many regards is because it wasn't balanced around PvP (it wasn't really balanced at all, every class has something that makes them OP and/or shitty in other ways). I would be completely okay with them not really doing anything with PvP at all honestly. I get a pretty good PvP fix just from doing BGs or Arenas in WoW, as I associate PvP more with WoW than EQ.

All that being said, I actually think this game is going to be a lot more popular than people realize. I genuinely don't think that MnM is just going to be a game played exclusively by 40+ year old EQ veteran boomers. During this play test I played with a bunch of young folks who admittedly never even heard of EQ before playing MnM and they all seemed to really enjoy it. There's a ton of high rating WoW players in the MnM Discord who already love this game.

I think it's going to be one of those games you see people like streamers talking about in a few months. Especially the Classic WoW crowd. Genuinely believe that. Game like this would probably even appeal to a lot of people who normally play survival games, it has a lot of those elements, cutting down trees, starting a camp fire, killing animals and cooking them etc.

I really expect all of my friends who never played EQ but know I played it to be asking me if I've ever heard of MNM before in the near future.

[Wakanda]

All that being said, I actually think this game is going to be a lot more popular than people realize.

I'm not just saying this either. I never felt this way about Pantheon. I enjoyed the early game experience of Pantheon when it first launched, but it was really rough, and needed a lot of work. Even though it's been nearly a year since that time, I tried logging into Pantheon and it doesn't hit the same. When my friends asked me if they should buy it when I got last year, I told them no, that I didn't think they would enjoy it, and that the game also needs a lot of work before it would even be ready for general consumption.

MnM on the other hand is completely different, I 100% believe that most of my friends could hop into the game right now and play it and have fun.

Also for those of you who haven't tried MnM yet, the lack of maps isn't as big of a deal as you would think it is. The zones are massive, yes, but they have huge landmarks you can see from a long distance that really help you figure out which way to go. For instance, Night Harbor, which is basically Freeport, can be seen from miles away, so even if you do manage to get lost in the desert, you can almost always find your way home, or at least tell which direction you're heading. The elven forest is very similar. You can look up and see the glow of the elven structures high in the sky from anywhere in the zone. Even in the neighboring zone, Keepers Bight, you can glance towards the forest and get a pretty good idea where the Elven City is because you can see the glowing lights in the dark forest from the coast line where the boat docks are.

I have to assume it was intentional, but the game is relatively navigable even without a map.

[shovelquest]

I hope Asmongold gets really into it.

[Nickelback8469]

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.

The biggest difference that gives me hope for M&M right now is that they're not trying to sell Early Access or really taking any money from the public. Pantheon had a lot of hype but the red flags were there with how they were trying to milk their community by selling promises for a finished product in the future.

[Nickelback8469]

The only thing I disagree with with this sentiment (since the rest is legitimate feedback) is that they need to make this game more like an action RPG. Which again, I may be misinterpreting what you meant by that, if so, I apologize. I actually play a lot of Retail WoW, even actively played it prior to MnM launched (canceled sub afterwards). It's not that I don't appreciate action RPGs, it's just that like.... IDK, there's something super chill and relaxing about MnM that I really enjoy. Sitting on a beach in Sanded Dunes drinking coffee, listening to some good music, just casually grinding some EXP out. You don't really get that type of vibe from WoW where you're constantly mashing buttons as fast as you can and can't even glance at your character or your environment because you're too busy staring at the cooldowns on your abilities the entire time. Zero down time and no incentive to just chill out in the world somewhere, sharing a campfire with complete strangers, trading buffs and heals, chit chatting about the world and the game.

You just don't get this from an action RPG. I think it's fine to have the genres separate. I think there's enough space for both.

I also agree with this. I don't want another "action packed" MMO with dozens of abilities or spells to juggle on several hotbars, I like the strategic aspect of slowing the combat down and limiting the player to 10 or so carefully chosen abilities. It's one of my biggest appeals towards Classic EQ and games like M&M

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Endurance mechanic? Or does a weighted axe mean nothing?

[Ennewi]

This is legitimate feedback, hopefully you post it somewhere that devs can read it. I don't play a Paladin but I'm not crazy about them pigeon holing the class into being the shield class since I envision them as the class that wielded the Fiery Avenger. But I guess they may reason that it's okay because the shield doesn't actually have to be equipped in order to use (some?) of the shield abilities.

The only thing I disagree with with this sentiment (since the rest is legitimate feedback) is that they need to make this game more like an action RPG. Which again, I may be misinterpreting what you meant by that, if so, I apologize. I actually play a lot of Retail WoW, even actively played it prior to MnM launched (canceled sub afterwards). It's not that I don't appreciate action RPGs, it's just that like.... IDK, there's something super chill and relaxing about MnM that I really enjoy. Sitting on a beach in Sanded Dunes drinking coffee, listening to some good music, just casually grinding some EXP out. You don't really get that type of vibe from WoW where you're constantly mashing buttons as fast as you can and can't even glance at your character or your environment because you're too busy staring at the cooldowns on your abilities the entire time. Zero down time and no incentive to just chill out in the world somewhere, sharing a campfire with complete strangers, trading buffs and heals, chit chatting about the world and the game.

You just don't get this from an action RPG. I think it's fine to have the genres separate. I think there's enough space for both.

Visuals is more what I meant, but wouldn't excluded tactics which don't have to require button mashing, pecking at keys repeatedly. If a wizard begins to channel a meteor spell, it's way more interesting to see that as a charge up, where maybe they levitate higher and higher and then drop to the ground at the moment of impact. And, while levitating, they would avoid AEs that sweep the ground of the lair. But for another encounter, the same strategy could leave them exposed. Simple and doesn't have to be fast-paced. Just something that makes the player think and maybe put their sandwich down.

Borrow ideas from other games and genres without confirming to the same features.

[Wakanda]

Endurance mechanic? Or does a weighted axe mean nothing?

endurance is a bigger mechanic i think, but not to the point of being annoying. for instance when you start you get to choose traits to make your character more unique. one of them is called slow metabolism. you eat food/water slower, but also have 25% less endurance. another one that lets you hold your breath longer while under water, but also have 25% less endurance etc.

The slow metabolism one actually does appeal to me on my non melee characters.

[Ennewi]

Visuals is more what I meant, but wouldn't excluded tactics which don't have to require button mashing, pecking at keys repeatedly. If a wizard begins to channel a meteor spell, it's way more interesting to see that as a charge up, where maybe they levitate higher and higher and then drop to the ground at the moment of impact. And, while levitating, they would avoid AEs that sweep the ground of the lair. But for another encounter, the same strategy could leave them exposed. Simple and doesn't have to be fast-paced. Just something that makes the player think and maybe put their sandwich down.

A good example of this would be FFXI which took inspiration from EQ IIRC, but the attack moves are more stylish and distinct from ninja to dancer, NPCs and so on. EQ only has a few attack moves that are showy, namely flying kick, tail rake, mermaids spin exteavagantly and froglok's backflip, otherwise attacks are mostly restricted to ordinary swings and kicks. Giants don't stomp AE stun attack. Centaurs don't buck or kick with their fore/hind legs. That said, the death animations are well done, despite their limitations. Beholders rolling back, exposing the whites of their eyes. Harpies face plant with their wings still upright for a lingering moment. Little touches like those make the fights satisfying.

[shovelquest]

If you played on rallos zekk in 1999 there is nothing more dramatic, or terrifying, or cinimatic, than just hearing the fire spell.

*GHGHHHHHHHHHHHH > Anything Sephiroth has ever done.

[shovelquest]

Id play if this was on steam, get off your high horse and stop trying to be like one of the different girls.

It's the year 4042 put this shit on steam.

[Wakanda]

Id play if this was on steam, get off your high horse and stop trying to be like one of the different girls.

It's the year 4042 put this shit on steam.

i hope they put it on steam too because i know my friends will be way more likely to try it. it's still a small download that takes like 2 minutes to install.

[shovelquest]

Yeah what is this a mmo for ants