Do you think they should make raid mobs harder to kill?

[Wakanda]

to simulate the original difficulty of EQ where you might have a hundred people in a raid and still wipe? That was the biggest let down for me on P99. I remember how terrifying it was to zone into the Plane of Fear or Hate when I was a kid. There was a good chance your raid would wipe instantly and you might be up all night trying to get your corpses back.

Having so many people in raids that I had to stare at the ground to keep from lagging, and still regularly wiping, struggling to kill trash mobs on the second floor of Plane of Hate etc.

So whenever I got invited to my first raid on P99, I thought it was going to get canceled because there's like 15 people, and I'm waiting for the other 50+ people to show up, and I'm warning my inexperienced friend about how dangerous what we're about to do is, and how we may lose our corpses etc. And then I'm confused because they suddenly say to zone in. We don't have enough people, are you insane?

I don't actually go inside because I'm not suicidal, so I hang back and ask my friend what's happening and they tell me to come in. Get inside and I'm confused because we have like 3 groups and we're completely dominating everything despite most of us not even having planar gear yet. That's not the classic raid experience I had. Can remember when having full planar gear was a huge goal for most players that could take months or even years. Now it's something you commonly complete in a single night?

That part of EQ is missing for me on P99 and is one of the main reasons I don't enjoy raiding on P99. I lived in the Planes when I was a kid. I ended up dropping out of high school because of staying up all night to raid Plane of Growth, and then sleeping all day instead of going to school.

The rest of P99 is probably the right difficulty level, but one huge difference I've noticed is how trivial raiding is compared to the classic experience.

This is actually an interesting article that kind of talks about it:

https://www.fandom.com/articles/everquest-gave-us-the-hardest-raid-in-mmos

I remember it being the norm for most servers to have not killed Inny yet, and hearing a rumor that someone on another server had finally killed him, and then looking at the loot he dropped (on their guild website) and being blown away. I really didn't even know if Bloodmoon (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bloodmoon) was a real item until I played on P99 and actually saw someone with one. I never actually saw anyone in-game who had Inny loot and had been killed by Inny several times - usually an accidental pull. My raids weren't really skilled enough to make serious attempts at killing him.

[CrazyPro]

to simulate the original difficulty of EQ where you might have a hundred people in a raid and still wipe? That was the biggest let down for me on P99. I remember how terrifying it was to zone into the Plane of Fear or Hate when I was a kid. There was a good chance your raid would wipe instantly and you might be up all night trying to get your corpses back.

Having so many people in raids that I had to stare at the ground to keep from lagging, and still regularly wiping, struggling to kill trash mobs on the second floor of Plane of Hate etc.

So whenever I got invited to my first raid on P99, I thought it was going to get canceled because there's like 15 people, and I'm waiting for the other 50+ people to show up, and I'm warning my inexperienced friend about how dangerous what we're about to do is, and how we may lose our corpses etc. And then I'm confused because they suddenly say to zone in. We don't have enough people, are you insane?

I don't actually go inside because I'm not suicidal, so I hang back and ask my friend what's happening and they tell me to come in. Get inside and I'm confused because we have like 3 groups and we're completely dominating everything despite most of us not even having planar gear yet. That's not the classic raid experience I had. Can remember when having full planar gear was a huge goal for most players that could take months or even years. Now it's something you commonly complete in a single night?

That part of EQ is missing for me on P99 and is one of the main reasons I don't enjoy raiding on P99. I lived in the Planes when I was a kid. I ended up dropping out of high school because of staying up all night to raid Plane of Growth, and then sleeping all day instead of going to school.

The rest of P99 is probably the right difficulty level, but one huge difference I've noticed is how trivial raiding is compared to the classic experience.

This is actually an interesting article that kind of talks about it:

https://www.fandom.com/articles/everquest-gave-us-the-hardest-raid-in-mmos

I remember it being the norm for most servers to have not killed Inny yet, and hearing a rumor that someone on another server had finally killed him, and then looking at the loot he dropped (on their guild website) and being blown away. I really didn't even know if Bloodmoon (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bloodmoon) was a real item until I played on P99 and actually saw someone with one. I never actually saw anyone in-game who had Inny loot and had been killed by Inny several times - usually an accidental pull. My raids weren't really skilled enough to make serious attempts at killing him.

that article is talking about the second revamp done to plane of hate which was well after velious

[CrazyPro]

everyone was stupid back then

now people are slightly less stupid

that's the difference

[cd288]

everyone was stupid back then

now people are slightly less stupid

that's the difference

This. Hate is super easy not because of gear but because people understand the right route to take through the zone.

[loramin]

everyone was stupid back then

now people are slightly less stupid

that's the difference

Hate isn't easy (just) because everyone is less stupid: it's easier here on our emulation server because we have an unclassic safe spot that everyone uses to track, recover, etc.. That spot didn't exist on live (or if it did, no one knew about it or recorded using it), and without it our Hate two-boxer (Diddly) wouldn't be able to semi-monopolize Mage epics.

Show me any classic evidence of such a safe spot existing and I'll happily admit it's about P99 players being smarter ... but until then you're just patting yourself on the back for using the equivalent of a cheat code ... when the real players back in '99 did it without one.

[CrazyPro]

Hate isn't easy (just) because everyone is less stupid: it's easier here on our emulation server because we have an unclassic safe spot that everyone uses to track, recover, etc.. That spot didn't exist on live (or if it did, no one knew about it or recorded using it), and without it our Hate two-boxer (Diddly) wouldn't be able to semi-monopolize Mage epics.

Show me any classic evidence of such a safe spot existing and I'll happily admit it's about P99 players being smarter ... but until then you're just patting yourself on the back for using the equivalent of a cheat code ... when the real players back in '99 did it without one.

if you're doing an actual hate clear you're not going to use the safe spot at all

you can literally make the entrance a safe spot in a handful of kills

[wuanahto]

why not just come out with even more bosses?
The Kraken was eventually a thing for the shaman epic 6 or 8 in later xpacs, let one spawn upon killing whatshisface in kedge
bertox can get his own plane in the karanas someplace
i personally always found it kinda stupid that tunare set up her fort in fucking velious meanwhile all the other elves are boatrides away
got that fucking door at the bottom of the hole, slap brell somewhere down there
revamp sky or even add plane of air to fight the claw, eye, mouth, tail and so on of veeshan and they all need to die within a minute before they rez/heal
we have vast fucking oceans but no prexuses planes
solusek ro appears to be jacking off doing nothing but we have some deserts in the game that can use a plane of heat and flames. spice that shit up by having mith marr there too for their rivalry thingy
theres this one spot on the orc highway that easily looks like an entrance to another part of the map, boom place for the plane
the plane of tranquility can be entered from places in oot or eruds crossing. instead of just rampaging neckbeards the fights can be isolated challenges in arenas


slap in random dragons too, the oasis adjacent zone would be nice for a roaming fire dragon
undead dragon running around a theoretical karana plagued new zone
pretty cold the higher up you go so why not a white dragon in the revamped sky/air
more sea dragons in any ocean and change some shit up, real world seasons effect their drops. summer red scales, winter white scales, middle seasons green

thats just the mythical shit, nevermind city or guild leaders having their own fights, loot and respawn times

[CrazyPro]

why not just come out with even more bosses?
The Kraken was eventually a thing for the shaman epic 6 or 8 in later xpacs, let one spawn upon killing whatshisface in kedge
bertox can get his own plane in the karanas someplace
i personally always found it kinda stupid that tunare set up her fort in fucking velious meanwhile all the other elves are boatrides away
got that fucking door at the bottom of the hole, slap brell somewhere down there
revamp sky or even add plane of air to fight the claw, eye, mouth, tail and so on of veeshan and they all need to die within a minute before they rez/heal
we have vast fucking oceans but no prexuses planes
solusek ro appears to be jacking off doing nothing but we have some deserts in the game that can use a plane of heat and flames. spice that shit up by having mith marr there too for their rivalry thingy
theres this one spot on the orc highway that easily looks like an entrance to another part of the map, boom place for the plane
the plane of tranquility can be entered from places in oot or eruds crossing. instead of just rampaging neckbeards the fights can be isolated challenges in arenas


slap in random dragons too, the oasis adjacent zone would be nice for a roaming fire dragon
undead dragon running around a theoretical karana plagued new zone
pretty cold the higher up you go so why not a white dragon in the revamped sky/air
more sea dragons in any ocean and change some shit up, real world seasons effect their drops. summer red scales, winter white scales, middle seasons green

thats just the mythical shit, nevermind city or guild leaders having their own fights, loot and respawn times

Bertoxxulous already has his own plane (which encompasses 2 whole zones) in PoP and it's great

The underfoot is also already accessible in it's namesake expansion, and you get to see Brell.

Solusek Ro already gets his own plane in PoP, and the plane of fire is Fennin Ro's plane, not his.

Mithaniel Marr also has his own plane in PoP (which is also 2 whole zones)

Pretty much everything you wish p99 had is something that was already thought of and added after velious. Daybreak also has set a precedent that custom content = bad so I highly doubt P99 will ever see anything like that. Project Quarm had an entire custom velious-like expansion in development that daybreak shot down.

[wuanahto]

custom content = bad

oh

[CrazyPro]

oh

https://media1.tenor.com/m/3W2uPU4u6JoAAAAd/need-a-job-evil-corp.gif

[cd288]

Hate isn't easy (just) because everyone is less stupid: it's easier here on our emulation server because we have an unclassic safe spot that everyone uses to track, recover, etc.. That spot didn't exist on live (or if it did, no one knew about it or recorded using it), and without it our Hate two-boxer (Diddly) wouldn't be able to semi-monopolize Mage epics.

Show me any classic evidence of such a safe spot existing and I'll happily admit it's about P99 players being smarter ... but until then you're just patting yourself on the back for using the equivalent of a cheat code ... when the real players back in '99 did it without one.

As another commenter noted, this isn't really relevant in the raid context. Sure it gives a tracking advantage, but it doesn't have anything to do with a raid clear being easy. It's easy because everyone knows what to do and where to go and how to avoid the crazy aggro.

Pretty much everything you wish p99 had is something that was already thought of and added after velious. Daybreak also has set a precedent that custom content = bad so I highly doubt P99 will ever see anything like that. Project Quarm had an entire custom velious-like expansion in development that daybreak shot down.

I don't think Daybreak is relevant here because wasn't the agreement with P99 made public in the THJ case filings and it allows them to go up to a bunch of different expansions? So I would think PoP would be fine from that perspective; it's just that the staff doesn't want to go to that era.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

If the people who run this project wanted to have fun with the game they would have done so a decade ago. It's a museum piece. That was the intention, and is the final result.

The least they could do is allow char xfers. That would alter nothing about the project they have completed. Game is still the same. But the players can innovate in this way.

But maybe even that kind of "liberty" scares the team these days. Every time someone logs onto a p99 server, their blood pressure skyrockets and the dialing fingers at DPG start itching to call the lawyer for all we know.

[Rygar]

Personally the biggest difference I saw in my P99 time was the social root aspect. That seemed the most unclassic, where proximity thru walls would root mobs in place.

I recall spite golems fleeing sow speed at camp without other houses being clear. Seems a bit overpowered on P99

[artry488]

Yeah, raids used to be absolute chaos back then. Half the time it was lag, wipes, and corpse runs, but that fear made every win feel huge. P99 kind of lost that spark.

[Jimjam]

Personally the biggest difference I saw in my P99 time was the social root aspect. That seemed the most unclassic, where proximity thru walls would root mobs in place.

I recall spite golems fleeing sow speed at camp without other houses being clear. Seems a bit overpowered on P99

I also remember low level mobs would break morale even when there were engaged high level mobs still fighting nearby.