Enchanter is #1 solo class? What is this madness

[Sillyturtle]

Ok so clickbaity title aside, I was always taught that Shaman with Torpor was the king of soloing tough mobs and farming high end gear. Then I read that it's actually Enchanter.

How so?

I did some research and learned about their ability to slow mobs, and of course their pet is very strong. But how do they deal with losing health?

[Crede]

Ok so clickbaity title aside, I was always taught that Shaman with Torpor was the king of soloing tough mobs and farming high end gear. Then I read that it's actually Enchanter.

How so?

I did some research and learned about their ability to slow mobs, and of course their pet is very strong. But how do they deal with losing health?

Enchanters have 2 rune spells at higher levels. Rune v and bedlam. When paired with enchanters utility you really shouldn’t take damage, your pet does. If you get charm breaks you use stuns to handle the situation and recharm as needed.

Charm, aoe stun, aoe mez, aoe blur, paci, clarity, slow, etc. enchanters have all the tools. Shamans can have an edge on like a random mob where you’re not charming like ww dragons but charmed pets are so op that enc wins most of the time. Too lazy to list out the mobs shamans are better at, but it’s in the minority. And it’s much more of an investment to gear out and acquire all the shaman spells.

Shamans also can’t dps like a hasted torched charm pet, despite some people on this server claiming shamans are good dps (Dsm).

Tldr charm, aoe mez/stun and paci are op.

[branamil]

Shamans only win if there's nothing nearby to practically charm.

If there's something to charm, you can think of the enchanter+pet combo as 1 unit, a unit with 15,000 HP, quads for 250, can slow 70%,+ and haste 70%+.

Yes, they can and will die in high risk scenarios, but on p99 you basically get infinite re-tries to take down your target.

[Goregasmic]

Also anything that casts dispel frequently will pretty much rule out ench. High MR can be a headache too.

Ench are powerhouses and have a ton of tools but they're still brittle though. At the higher end of soloing, torched and hasted mobs will basically do ~600+dps so they make brutal pets but if charm breaks your runes get poofed on the first round. You basically have to be ready for anything, have a fast reaction time and pray you get no resists. I find it not uncommon for fights to become "a series of unfortunate events" and the second you slip you're dead. You die a lot on higher end content, sometimes you do everything right and still die. Hasted pets can kill you before you get your stun off. Some ench will chain the 1sec stun into a 1.5sec stun because the 1.5sec one might never go off. Gives you a slight glimpse into what you're dealing with.

In my opinion when you start handling mobs 51+ that summon is where it starts becoming increasingly riskier. Anything below that or even non summoning 51+ mobs is fairly trivial barring exceptions.

[kjs86z2]

enchanters can get to places quick where it would take a shaman forever

also charm mob dps

only thing shamans do well over enchanters is soloing +6 necks...and maybe A4 due to the insanely long respawn

that being said...if you're not good at the game you may get more mileage out of a torpor shaman

[Tann]

But how do they deal with losing health?

troll form and bandages~

Given both blue & greens age though, you'll find that most casters have a zlandi heart to equip when a bad break happens, also an aura of battle item of some variety. I'm a filthy casual so I've got none of those things so I usually pop troll form and go afk for 20min.

[Crede]

troll form and bandages~

https://wiki.project1999.com/Maple_Leaf_Mask

Also this!

[Ruien]

Rez is part of the reason enchanters are strong. Enchanters can XP quickly to make up lost XP. If you are farming an item, a few deaths due to bad RNG are just a speedbump, while the item you get out of it can be sold or used forever. Procure a reliable way to receive rezzes. Park a personal shareable cleric nearby (or borrow a guild's cleric) and move it to your corpse(s). Many people in guild will be happy to log in a cleric to click a few corpses for you and /q out, especially if you offer to do the same for them. The Chardok discord server also has a @@REZ role that you can ping.

Next, raid gear is impactful for an enchanter and improves what you can reliably handle. It's why myself and others go all-in with dkp on this class. Enchanters want max CHA while stacking HP and AC. Always get Aegolism when you can; 1100 HP and 54 AC for 2.5 hours is amazing. Self-buffed with Aego I can get about 3800 HP and 1100 AC currently.

For health regen, this is the best combination I've found:
* Ring 10 (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ring_of_Dain_Frostreaver_IV) (+10 health/tick)
* Zheart (https://wiki.project1999.com/Zlandicar%27s_Heart) (+5 health/tick)
* SWC (https://wiki.project1999.com/Spirit_Wracked_Cord) (+2 health/tick)
* KT belt (https://wiki.project1999.com/Belt_of_Dwarf_Slaying) (+2 health/tick)

For mana regen:
* C2 (https://wiki.project1999.com/Clarity_II) (+11 mana/tick)
* GoB (https://wiki.project1999.com/Gift_of_Brilliance) (+2 mana/tick)
* EON (https://wiki.project1999.com/Essence_of_Nature) (+5 mana/tick)
* Yeli boots (https://wiki.project1999.com/White_Dragonscale_Boots) (+2 mana/tick)
* RW neck (https://wiki.project1999.com/Choker_of_the_Wretched) / Doze shield (https://wiki.project1999.com/Buckler_of_Insight) / Vulak robe (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sal%27Varae%27s_Robe_of_Darkness) (+1 mana/tick)

If using Zheart while keeping a pet, swap in a Velk crown (https://wiki.project1999.com/Crystal_Crown_of_Confusion) to offset the CHA loss. For this reason, I use a non-CHA helm normally.

Finally, enchanters get bind sight. As long as paci works on this server, you can bind sight to mobs and attempt to paci from max range and out of line of sight (using Calm / Pacify / Wake of Tranquility). For many camps, you can immediately gcd+gate before the mobs get to you on a crit resist. Bind where you are farming, carefully choose your spots of engagement, keep Bedlam+Rune up (FT really helps here), keep a Wand of Allure (https://wiki.project1999.com/Wand_of_Allure), OT pot (https://wiki.project1999.com/Courier%60s_Potion), and WC cap (https://wiki.project1999.com/Leatherfoot_Raider_Skullcap) ready for emergencies, and enjoy the journey.

[loramin]

Ok so clickbaity title aside, I was always taught that Shaman with Torpor was the king of soloing tough mobs and farming high end gear. Then I read that it's actually Enchanter.

How so?

Because P99 isn't classic when it comes to its creator's favorite class.

[Ruien]

Because P99 isn't classic when it comes to its creator's favorite class.

This is objectively true.

But, I think the p99 version really gets the enchanter concept right. I don't know of any other game (single-player included) that implements this particular class as enjoyably or masterfully as is done here.

[Goregasmic]

Self-buffed with Aego I can get about 3800 HP and 1100 AC currently.

Dayum, self buffed + aego I'm sitting at like 2700hp, 725ac. I only have the better EC gear but that's like +1100 extra hp from gear alone.

I've went with a more all around set when it comes to hp/mana/resists but I've been forever debating getting a more resist oriented set and a more HP/mana one but even getting an extra +300hp/mana at the cost of resists feels like a drop in the sea.

And yeah, rez access is everything, you're a lot less daring when you know you're probably going to eat that exp death. Easy to be brave in chardok/velks but it is a different story in the butthole of HS when you have no cleric contact. Dying to like, Brogg knowing you'll have a hell of a corpse retrieval too is also a cold shower on your enchanteering aspirations but it is all part of the game.

[Tann]

I don't know of any other game that implements this particular class as enjoyably or masterfully as is done here.

speaking the true true

WoW borrowed heavily from EQ so its no surprise that Charm/Lull made into that game, though they pale in comparison.

[kjs86z2]

enchanter is the only class that can solo farm earth staff

enchanter easily #1

[Vexenu]

Enchanters are a preposterously good solo class due to the OP nature of their spells and the very generous manner in which they are implemented on P1999. To truly convey the power of Enchanters solo versus every other class, it isn't enough to simply rank them #1. That doesn't adequately emphasize the power gulf that separates them from the other classes. You really have to convey it this way:

Solo power rankings:

1) Enchanter
2) None
3) None
4) Shaman
5) None
6) Necro
7) Druid

[Goregasmic]

The thing with chanter is slow/haste is percentage based so it scales well while most other classes will see their skill/spells get flat numbers so it doesn't scale as well. Mobs>50 notoriously scale faster than players so when you can charm you get another leg up on other classes.

Add the ability of bypassing content and resetting mobs, every engagement is on your own terms and if you mess up you can just try again.

It is a very fun class but from a balance stand point we could still have done well with like half the tools. Kinda feels like cheating when you get away with stuff you shouldn't have because your spellbook is so stacked. I kind of suspect it is a bit by design though because charming can be quite the double edged sword.

[Crede]

The thing with chanter is slow/haste is percentage based so it scales well while most other classes will see their skill/spells get flat numbers so it doesn't scale as well. Mobs>50 notoriously scale faster than players so when you can charm you get another leg up on other classes.

Add the ability of bypassing content and resetting mobs, every engagement is on your own terms and if you mess up you can just try again.

It is a very fun class but from a balance stand point we could still have done well with like half the tools. Kinda feels like cheating when you get away with stuff you shouldn't have because your spellbook is so stacked. I kind of suspect it is a bit by design though because charming can be quite the double edged sword.

Absolutely no reason enchanters needed C on top of their already ridiculous toolset. Wizards should have gotten it.

[Tann]

It is a very fun class but from a balance stand point we could still have done well with like half the tools.

gotta be careful with that balance thing.. if you go too extreme you'll get the homogenized bullshit we have with modern mmo's where every class is basically the same, the only difference: one class shoots blue fireballs, the other green.

enc gets to be solo gods, buff bots in raids. rogues are ass tier solo, top dps in raids. Thanos would call that balanced.

[kjs86z2]

gotta be careful with that balance thing.. if you go too extreme you'll get the homogenized bullshit we have with modern mmo's where every class is basically the same, the only difference: one class shoots blue fireballs, the other green.

enc gets to be solo gods, buff bots in raids. rogues are ass tier solo, top dps in raids. Thanos would call that balanced.

only bad enchanters are truly buff bots across the entire raid scene

[loramin]

Absolutely no reason enchanters needed C on top of their already ridiculous toolset. Wizards should have gotten it.

In classic charm was far, far less powerful (and safe), so Verant giving Enchanters C made perfect sense: classic Enchanters were primarily a group class.

Verant had no way of knowing that Nilbog would greatly reduce the difficulty of charming on his recreation server years later.

[shovelquest]

Verant had no way of knowing that Nilbog would greatly reduce the difficulty of charming on his recreation server years later.

:D

https://i.imgur.com/ufGxaIo.png

[Goregasmic]

Absolutely no reason enchanters needed C on top of their already ridiculous toolset. Wizards should have gotten it.

Makes sense thematically but I find it hard to draw the line at exactly what they shouldn't have gotten. A couple of their 50+ spells are real mana hogs and when it comes to raiding they're basically c2/vog/sieve bots. Outside charm their DPS is terrible.

[Vexenu]

Makes sense thematically but I find it hard to draw the line at exactly what they shouldn't have gotten.
Remove Clarity line and give to Wizards. Restrict Enchanter charming to Humanoid/intelligent mobs (i.e. all playable races, Orcs, Drolvargs, Sarnaks, Goblins, Giants, Geonids, but no animals, undead, or other mindless creatures like Oozes or golems - they can still be mezzed but not charmed).

Do this and Enchanters are still easily the #1 solo class, although the size of the gulf has been reduced, and you've increased the relative strength of Wizards, Necros and Druids.

[Goregasmic]

I mained a wiz on live back then some I'm sympathetic to the argument but there probably was a DPS reason why they limited it. They certainly could use the utility. Scrap harvest if anything. They'd kill it quad kiting though but that loses its appeal at 60. That would also make them a lot more welcome in group. For ench they could boost wandering mind or scrap TOT and make mana sieve leech a small %.

Thematically it is probably easier to mind control an ooze but since it is a CHARM then I guess animals/undeads and low sentience creatures could be immune, yeah.

Anyway, classic gonna classic so none of that is happening.

[Ennewi]

Absolutely no reason enchanters needed C on top of their already ridiculous toolset. Wizards should have gotten it.

Enchanters didn't receive it initially either. Until mid-late beta, only bards had the standard "clarity" version of mana regen.

[Ennewi]

Remove Clarity line and give to Wizards. Restrict Enchanter charming to Humanoid/intelligent mobs (i.e. all playable races, Orcs, Drolvargs, Sarnaks, Goblins, Giants, Geonids, but no animals, undead, or other mindless creatures like Oozes or golems - they can still be mezzed but not charmed).

Do this and Enchanters are still easily the #1 solo class, although the size of the gulf has been reduced, and you've increased the relative strength of Wizards, Necros and Druids.

And add animated pet upgrade to their spell book, making the final version less defensive and more offensive.

https://wiki.project1999.com/A_blade_storm

[branamil]

Barely anyone used charm for item farming or group XP in classic. Almost everyone's gear sucked and the math behind it wasn't widespread. People just wanted a predictable trickle of XP. Rezzes were rare so everyone was really conservative as they didnt' want to lose 10 hours of grinding XP to a charm break.

[Tann]

I'd gladly trade C for some sort of health recovery, something like a harvest but for hp, or saccing a summoned animation but instead of getting mana back you get health. If the AI was wicket smaht enough, maybe cleric/shm mobs would heal the owner if put on /guard.

[Vexenu]

I'd gladly trade C for some sort of health recovery, something like a harvest but for hp, or saccing a summoned animation but instead of getting mana back you get health. If the AI was wicket smaht enough, maybe cleric/shm mobs would heal the owner if put on /guard.
Just give them complete heal while you're at it. That will round out their OP kit nicely.

It really is absurd how overpowered Enchanters are on P1999. Consider this wild fact: you could literally remove the charm line of spells from Enchanters entirely and they would STILL be the best overall solo class, just by virtue of their CC, animation and slow.

The class is so absurdly OP that you could remove their strongest spell and they would STILL be the best solo class. It's actually pretty hilarious.

[kjs86z2]

Just give them complete heal while you're at it. That will round out their OP kit nicely.

It really is absurd how overpowered Enchanters are on P1999. Consider this wild fact: you could literally remove the charm line of spells from Enchanters entirely and they would STILL be the best overall solo class, just by virtue of their CC, animation and slow.

The class is so absurdly OP that you could remove their strongest spell and they would STILL be the best solo class. It's actually pretty hilarious.

nah

torpor shaman > enchanter without charm

[DeathsSilkyMist]

nah

torpor shaman > enchanter without charm

Correct. Enchanter and Torpor Shaman are the two best solo classes on P99. Enchanter is usually better when they can charm. Otherewise Torpor Shaman is better.

[kjs86z2]

not usually

always - with the exception of +6 necks

[DeathsSilkyMist]

not usually

always - with the exception of +6 necks

That is why I said usually, there are exceptions. Personally I'd prefer to use a Shaman on some mobs that are doable by Shamans, even if an Enchanter can kill the mob faster. Not having to deal with charming is nice when you want a more chill play session.

[Vexenu]

nah

torpor shaman > enchanter without charm
Enchanter minus charm is still stronger 1-59 and their CC allows them to dungeon crawl much better than a Shaman. I'd say it's a toss-up depending on what zones/mobs you're looking to farm.

The main point being, though: the Enchanter class is stupidly OP when you can remove their best spell and STILL the only class that can even begin to make a case for sniffing their jock is the #2 solo class, which itself is abusing two of the most OP spells in the game (slow and Torpor).

[Crede]

nah

torpor shaman > enchanter without charm

That’s factually incorrect. There are situations where an enchanter with animation will still win out; particularly mob sense areas where the enc can just calm/blur/mez as needed. A boon’d deadwood staved max animation is pretty damn good paired with enc cc. It also has 2nd most hp to an earth pet.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That’s factually incorrect. There are situations where an enchanter with animation will still win out; particularly mob sense areas where the enc can just calm/blur/mez as needed. A boon’d deadwood staved max animation is pretty damn good paired with enc cc. It also has 2nd most hp to an earth pet.

Do you have a specific example where an Enchanter with animation can do a mob that a Torpor Shaman could not?

[Snaggles]

Do you have a specific example where an Enchanter with animation can do a mob that a Torpor Shaman could not?

A shaman has difficulty isolating one mob from a pack. Also, stopping a gater which can summon like the pathing frog in seb by NG.

I don’t know why we are giving golf handicaps to classes. Playing this game though, if the target is rootable and stunnable, that is a very mana efficient way for an enchanter to reduce incoming animation damage.

The best soloers in the game can easily bypass groups of trash and solo pull named targets. Outside factioning in Chardok, that is the shamans biggest hurdle. Unless you want to burn FD ring clicks and constantly quest Ball of Burlap Yarn’s.

[Jimjam]

P99 has no rubber banding so a shaman can just plug past things for short hops if needed.

Having internet cut in and out is very classic ;)

[Crede]

Do you have a specific example where an Enchanter with animation can do a mob that a Torpor Shaman could not?

I wasn't necessarily suggesting enchanters can solo a mob in isolation with an animation that a torpor shaman could not. That would make many topics on here irrelevant because when discussing "better" it's not always a matter of actually being able to kill a mob. There's just simply a lot more to it than that and enchanters have more tools to get to said mob and control the situation like dealing with gaters/healers as Snaggles mentioned. A mob like Brogg in Seb could quickly go bad because you aren't solo pulling that mob without fd splitting or lull. You could get the mob snared w/ clickies and use FD ring and keep it recharged, but these are just things that come easier for an enchanter innately.

But just thinking of other specific mobs one that comes to mind is the Corrupted Seahorse in Kedge. I've seen Torpor Shamans struggle with it because you have to deal with potential adds and chealers in very tight quarters. If you get 2 adds while attempting, you're probably gonna die. Enchanters can just mez/blur and continue on with the fight. I am not saying it can't be done though, if you feel like making a video on it I won't stop you :)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I wasn't necessarily suggesting enchanters can solo a mob in isolation with an animation that a torpor shaman could not. That would make many topics on here irrelevant because when discussing "better" it's not always a matter of actually being able to kill a mob. There's just simply a lot more to it than that and enchanters have more tools to get to said mob and control the situation like dealing with gaters/healers as Snaggles mentioned. A mob like Brogg in Seb could quickly go bad because you aren't solo pulling that mob without fd splitting or lull. You could get the mob snared w/ clickies and use FD ring and keep it recharged, but these are just things that come easier for an enchanter innately.

But just thinking of other specific mobs one that comes to mind is the Corrupted Seahorse in Kedge. I've seen Torpor Shamans struggle with it because you have to deal with potential adds and chealers in very tight quarters. If you get 2 adds while attempting, you're probably gonna die. Enchanters can just mez/blur and continue on with the fight. I am not saying it can't be done though, if you feel like making a video on it I won't stop you :)

A shaman has difficulty isolating one mob from a pack. Also, stopping a gater which can summon like the pathing frog in seb by NG.


Thanks for the responses! I see what you are driving at now.

I am genuinely curious if players know of a mob that fits this perfect storm of variables:

1. The mob is in a spot where the Enchanter doesn't have a good target to charm.
2. The mob is in a position that requires the enchanter toolkit to get it solo.
3. The Enchanter and the level 55 Enchanter animation can solo this mob without charming.

I like finding new solo challenges to try out, which is why I ask.

I understand that the level 55 animation is a good pet. I have quite a bit of experience with the Shaman pet, which is weaker than the level 55 animation. The Shaman pet can tank a Cliff Golem (https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?feature=shared), so I don't doubt the level 55 animation can do some cool stuff. I've just never really seen a crazy solo kill using the animation, I've only heard anecdotes.

As for dealing with adds and gaters, I've often been able to deal with these issues on my Shaman without consumables. I am extremely lazy when it comes to consumables. I don't like spending the time farming plat/items for recharges/replacements. So I try to find ways to do the solo kills without them.

Here is me soloing King Tranix while the full throne room is popped. Slow+Root did the trick on the adds. (https://youtu.be/4Rzw3wLWEsM?feature=shared)

Here is an example of me clearing the Gravemaster PH by killing the pathing gater close enough to it's spawn point to prevent gating. (https://youtu.be/qS3uoIHTu_c?feature=shared)

I haven't tried the corrupted seahorse yet, so thanks for the suggestion. The wiki page says a Torpor Shaman can solo it, but I've never seen an attempt myself.

Let me know if you have any ideas for mobs that may fit the perfect storm of variables I listed above.

[Crede]

Thanks for the responses! I see what you are driving at now.

I am genuinely curious if players know of a mob that fits this perfect storm of variables:

1. The mob is in a spot where the Enchanter doesn't have a good target to charm.
2. The mob is in a position that requires the enchanter toolkit to get it solo.
3. The Enchanter and the level 55 Enchanter animation can solo this mob without charming.

I like finding new solo challenges to try out, which is why I ask.

I understand that the level 55 animation is a good pet. I have quite a bit of experience with the Shaman pet, which is weaker than the level 55 animation. The Shaman pet can tank a Cliff Golem (https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?feature=shared), so I don't doubt the level 55 animation can do some cool stuff. I've just never really seen a crazy solo kill using the animation, I've only heard anecdotes.

As for dealing with adds and gaters, I've often been able to deal with these issues on my Shaman without consumables. I am extremely lazy when it comes to consumables. I don't like spending the time farming plat/items for recharges/replacements. So I try to find ways to do the solo kills without them.

Here is me soloing King Tranix while the full throne room is popped. Slow+Root did the trick on the adds. (https://youtu.be/4Rzw3wLWEsM?feature=shared)

Here is an example of me clearing the Gravemaster PH by killing the pathing gater close enough to it's spawn point to prevent gating. (https://youtu.be/qS3uoIHTu_c?feature=shared)

I haven't tried the corrupted seahorse yet, so thanks for the suggestion. The wiki page says a Torpor Shaman can solo it, but I've never seen an attempt myself.

Let me know if you have any ideas for mobs that may fit the perfect storm of variables I listed above.

Maaaaybe khelkar icepaw meets your conditions. Enc werewolf illusion and faction spell to not be kos down there. Calms to get the pull off. Rapture to get it slowed, and the gear to help out with tanking/runes. Idk though. I’ll try to think of others.

[Vexenu]

As a thought experiment to help demonstrate how powerful Enchanters are, imagine if other classes in the game suddenly had their best/most class-defining spell or ability removed entirely.

Warrior without Defensive/Evasive: terrible
Rogue without Backstab: awful
Monk without Feign Death: abysmal
Wizard without big nukes: lmao
Cleric without CH: nope
Shaman without slow: ouch
Necro without lifetaps: bro
Mage without pets: Oh dear god



Most of the other classes would be nerfed into near uselessness if not total unviability if you took away their best spell or ability. But if you remove charm from Enchanters? They're still arguably the #1 solo class in the game, and remain a valuable raid/group member with their buffs and CC. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Jimjam]

Necro without lifetaps: bro


resist patch: hold my beer

[Vivitron]

Maaaaybe khelkar icepaw meets your conditions. Enc werewolf illusion and faction spell to not be kos down there. Calms to get the pull off. Rapture to get it slowed, and the gear to help out with tanking/runes. Idk though. I’ll try to think of others.

I don't think you can kill it solo with summon pets, would be entertained if someone brought a video proving me wrong though.

[enjchanter]

I don't think you can kill it solo with summon pets, would be entertained if someone brought a video proving me wrong though.

Ain't no way you're killing khelkar with an animation pet

[enjchanter]

Wizard without big nukes: lmao

Mage without pets: Oh dear god



A wizard is literally mage without pets

[Jimjam]

Ain't no way you're killing khelkar with an animation pet

How many animation pets would be required?

[Ennewi]

A wizard is literally mage without pets

Except with roots, snares, stuns, and ports/evacs.

[Jimjam]

Except with roots, snares, stuns, and ports/evacs.

Wizard also gets eye and sword pets! So a magician without pets defacto couldn't be a wizard.

I had fun scumming 59 on my wiz in KC using the wizard pet. Everyone commented on how fun it was to see it in use, no one complained or told me to put it away (even we all knew it was bad). Ironically the mage summon items make the wiz sword pet far more viable thanks to reclaim energy.

[Crede]

How many animation pets would be required?

It’s hard to say. Never been attempted before I’m sure. The enc would need to be well geared and help out tanking a lot with runes as the pet would be taking way more dmg due to its max level.

[Vexenu]

A wizard is literally mage without pets
Wizards at least have their established niches of raid DPS, easy quad leveling, and ports/TPs.
Except with roots, snares, stuns, and ports/evacs.
The funny thing about Wizards and Mages is you could combine the classes - literally make a "Wizard Mage" that had access to every single spell of each class - and it still would not solo as well as an Enchanter (or even a charming Necro, for that matter). That's how ridiculously busted charm is in EQ. In fact, you could combine Wizard/Mage/Cleric in a single class, and while it would probably level faster than the Enchanter, it would still struggle to keep up with what a 60 Enchanter can solo due to high-end mob scaling. The combination of charm, slow, haste, and top-of-the-line CC in a single class - at least as is currently implemented on P1999 - creates the most preposterously overpowered class in the history of MMOs, one that should have rightfully been nerfed into oblivion years ago.

[loramin]

That's how ridiculously busted charm is in EQ.

No, it's not. It's how ridiculously busted charm is on Project 1999.

[Snaggles]

Apples to apples, an enchanter also has a lower gear treadmill to being viable. Shamans can solo 1v1 in Chardok with as little as an epic and Torp but that’s still about 100k on Blue. They do much better with an extra ton of hit points and mana.

Enchanters obviously do better with quality gear but since their success is based on quick reflexes and RNG you can do more, with less.

Personally…I’ve never had the nerves for an Enchanter. I play EQ to relax and even raiding I’ll pick my stressful moments and laser focus. Maybe the idea of rolling a charmed random murder-bot gets more chill as you do it, but I’m not there. Not for hours on end like my buddy :).

The shaman isn’t as powerful in most cases but more my speed. I’ll likely invest more in my SK or Paladin and use that char for a similar thing.

[shovelquest]

No, it's not. It's how ridiculously busted charm is on Project 1999.

https://i.imgur.com/t0FhHcR.png

[Goregasmic]

Ench animation is not weak yet not strong. It is mid 40s so against high level targets it won't land much and it will get hit hard. It quads for ~210 and has like 3khp. The damage isn't too bad once hasted but 3khp will have you chain rune on harder fights, not super effective.

Very nice to have but it isn't what will put you on the solo artist leaderboard, a charmed pet is almost always better even if more of a hassle. It nearly solo'd ghost of kindle (52) but a max level krup knight would probably require a lot of help to keep it alive, at that point a torched dar is much less trouble even if charm may break. And yeah you could chain animations but you'd have to rebuff them and if the mob summons you'd have to mez it first, not sure if that is less of a PITA.

Most tough charm fights hang on if charm will break or not, basically all RNG. Shamans seem a lot more laid back like snaggles said.

[Crede]

Ench animation is not weak yet not strong. It is mid 40s so against high level targets it won't land much and it will get hit hard. It quads for ~210 and has like 3khp. The damage isn't too bad once hasted but 3khp will have you chain rune on harder fights, not super effective.

Very nice to have but it isn't what will put you on the solo artist leaderboard, a charmed pet is almost always better even if more of a hassle. It nearly solo'd ghost of kindle (52) but a max level krup knight would probably require a lot of help to keep it alive, at that point a torched dar is much less trouble even if charm may break. And yeah you could chain animations but you'd have to rebuff them and if the mob summons you'd have to mez it first, not sure if that is less of a PITA.

Most tough charm fights hang on if charm will break or not, basically all RNG. Shamans seem a lot more laid back like snaggles said.

Yea I don’t think anyone is arguing that the animation is superior to charm it was more of a question of what is the animation capable of. Sometimes it’s nice to just throw it in for easier fights or trash if you want to not have to think about breaks or doing something else at the same time. It’s not hard to kill summoning mobs with just mez and resummon as needed just gets annoying as it takes some time to rebuild aggro pet aggro is kinda broke on this server iirc. Having an epic really helps for rehaste on those fresh pets and saving a spell slot.

[kjs86z2]

wiz + mage def could have been 1 class

sorcerer

[Ennewi]

Not like it's gonna happen, but that would be wild if magicians and wizards were considered one and the same, with access to both spell books and epics. Mages still waiting on earth staff would have wiz epic to hold them over. Wizards would have more control over raid mobilization/traversal with coth. Even both class icons are similar, hands cradling magic, enough to where they're interchangeable.

[Goregasmic]

wiz + mage def could have been 1 class

sorcerer

Yeah I don't feel like the difference between their DD efficiency/DPS requires making wizard a whole class. They're both gimped in their own way compared to ench/necro and they both have enough crossover abilities to be fused with some tuning without anyone missing either. Remove snare and stuns and call it a day.

[sajbert]

Sadly the best part of the wizard toolkit for mage would just be root and regardless wouldn’t compare to sham or enchanter.

[enjchanter]

How many animation pets would be required?

If you were lucky enough to pre slow khelkar, you'd probably go oom casting runes before you got him to 40% . Without pre slow he's dying in like 20 seconds

The animation is what it is. It's a 3rd string pet thats decent for killing green con mobs. A charm pet will do 3x the damage easily and has 2-3x the hp. If you're fighting stuff that the animation can do well against then the bar is on the floor. You can work with it in a pinch but I would never consider using it just for the sake of not wanting to deal with a charm pet.

[Ennewi]

Sadly the best part of the wizard toolkit for mage would just be root and regardless wouldnÂ’t compare to sham or enchanter.

For solo probably yeah. Still significant though, what with root nets being a thing of the past.

That, plus wiz epic and flux staff. Mobility around the map would be a big QoL improvement as well. Opt into porting for tips rather than farming.

Mostly a raid upgrade for the class and added convenience. Being able to coth and tl box pullers with same character, use sky neck to recharge DA ring, etc.

[PatChapp]

I would be genuinely surprised if zumaiks lasted 30seconds on a pre-slowed khelkar. Zumaiks can do a lot,though. 2 enchanters with zumaiks can kill verina tomb,by chaining them as they die.

[Vexenu]

wiz + mage def could have been 1 class

sorcerer
A "Sorcerer" class comprised of Wiz+Mage would actually feel like a fully fleshed out and powerful class that could rightfully stand alongside Enchanters and Necros. It would have great group DPS with its pets and great raid DPS with lure and bane nukes, as well as great utility with ports, TPs and CoTH, and pretty decent CC with root and stuns. Take two rather limited specialist classes and combine them and suddenly you have a very fun and compelling class that brings a lot to the table at every level of the game.

Honestly it might be a little too strong though. You wouldn't have the high end solo power of an Enchanter or Shaman, but the excellent solo, group, and raid potential of a "Sorcerer" (along with ports, let's not forget) would almost certainly make it the most popular class on the server.

[Ennewi]

All that plus some version of highsun and you've got a well-rounded, very thematic class that can reposition characters around, non-player and player alike.

[Goregasmic]

Honestly it might be a little too strong though. You wouldn't have the high end solo power of an Enchanter or Shaman, but the excellent solo, group, and raid potential of a "Sorcerer" (along with ports, let's not forget) would almost certainly make it the most popular class on the server.

I'm the first to feel something should have been done about mage/wizards back then but chaining sunstrikes is like nearly 200dps? while a decently geared rogue/monk will hit what, 80? Add a mage pet and DPS would be unreal, something would have to give.

[kjs86z2]

ive seen vyemm absolutely melt with a raid full of wizards

[Snaggles]

Wizards are underrated. Outside grinding blues any time you need a mobile dps they are great. Chaining Lure of Ice on Sonalak is typically 127-180dps depending if you eat no fears, one, or two. On Vindi with Lure of Flame you can still do 120-130’ish (but can bane that target).

They are marginal at soloing 1v1. Very bad if you can’t root or that mob summons. Amazing for raiding or even small-group hits like epic bosses and kunark dragons.

Adding the mage kit to the wiz would be broken. It’s a shame that mages never got a baby lure outside the summoned nukes (-50). They have more important stuff to do on raids though.

I expect a wizard with some luck could put down Chardok names. It would be painful though and refreshing the epic each nuke and re-root. That and relying on clicks once lom just makes the game slower.

[PatChapp]

Would be neat to see. Battlemaster,one of the easier nameds has 12,750 hp.
Sunstrike is 1650dmg for 450dmg.
So 3.5ish to one,so would need to be a pretty swole 4kish mana wizard with 0 resists to pull it off. I agree its maybe possible.

[Goregasmic]

They're also good at healer denial. They got a bunch of stuns, enough to stunlock but you don't need to. Pop one off when the first heal starts around 40% then delete the mob. I felt like I made a lot more of a difference in places like sebilis compared to your average warrior mob dungeon.

Winds of gelid with epic is also fun to clear entire floors of lower level dungeons by yourself. Although that was probably nerfed on p99 with the 25 mobs limit. People say channeling is borked on here but I could AE entire floors of TOFS solo.

[sajbert]

Would be neat to see. Battlemaster,one of the easier nameds has 12,750 hp.
Sunstrike is 1650dmg for 450dmg.
So 3.5ish to one,so would need to be a pretty swole 4kish mana wizard with 0 resists to pull it off. I agree its maybe possible.

Battlemaster has been done. Clicky nukes like rend robe makes mana less of an issue too.

[Tann]

People say channeling is borked on here but I could AE entire floors of TOFS solo.

Compared to PQ it's quite busted, leveling a caster freaking sucks on Quarm until later levels (or so I'm told, never made it further than low 30's), almost impossible to get a spell off with just 1 mob hitting you, here on p99 it's really a non issue once channeling skill gets > 1

[Goregasmic]

Compared to PQ it's quite busted, leveling a caster freaking sucks on Quarm until later levels (or so I'm told, never made it further than low 30's), almost impossible to get a spell off with just 1 mob hitting you, here on p99 it's really a non issue once channeling skill gets > 1

I don't know, I mained a wiz and getting a root off when you're getting your skull bashed in was routine and I don't remember getting into melee range a death sentence. I can't say it is 100% accurate on here but I don't feel it is wildly out of tune either, maybe a little easier on here but not by a huge margin.

Sometimes I'd also get aggroed in AE groups and I could still get AEs off too.

[Tann]

yea its probably more in line with p99 later on, my only experience on quarm was 1-30's and if i had a root break in oasis i was pretty much cooked and had to zone the mob, maybe 1 in 50 chance of channeling through just 1 mob beating on you.

recently started a new enchanter on blue and i think by level 8 or so I had no problem channeling through damage so its quite "different" here.

[loramin]

I had no problem channeling through damage so its quite "different" here.

http://i.imgur.com/apRp7TQ.gif

[Tann]

http://i.imgur.com/apRp7TQ.gif

That gif (captions aside) perfectly illustrates how channelling felt leveling an enc on quarm.

[loramin]

Yeah, it just boggles my mind: Nilbog is so dedicated to classic EQ that he all but devotes his life to it (I mean, we're talking decades of free work that's so challenging people get paid 200k+ to do it professionally) ...

... and yet for over two decades he could have, literally, changed a single number (the channeling rate) and made this place more classic overnight! It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me why he refuses to do so.

[Infectious]

Yeah, it just boggles my mind: Nilbog is so dedicated to classic EQ that he all but devotes his life to it (I mean, we're talking decades of free work that's so challenging people get paid 200k+ to do it professionally) ...

... and yet for over two decades he could have, literally, changed a single number (the channeling rate) and made this place more classic overnight! It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me why he refuses to do so.

You work at best buy and youre throwing dirt on Nilbogs name? Go edit the wiki you weirdo

[Goregasmic]

We have any actual numbers on the channeling issue?

[Tann]

We have any actual numbers on the channeling issue?

a lotta "numbers" and such here

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395675&highlight=channeling

is this correct for classic era though? or is it more of people figuring out how current eqlive works combined with member berries /cough like CHA effects on charm /cough

[Goregasmic]

Yeah, it just boggles my mind: Nilbog is so dedicated to classic EQ that he all but devotes his life to it (I mean, we're talking decades of free work that's so challenging people get paid 200k+ to do it professionally) ...

... and yet for over two decades he could have, literally, changed a single number (the channeling rate) and made this place more classic overnight! It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me why he refuses to do so.

In that thread nilbog acknowledged taking note of it and not being against it.

I read it diagonally (saved it for later, very interesting) but it seems like it is based on the notion that different spells levels are treated differently for resists and channelling and none of that stuff seem to be implemented on p99 so there's no real point of implementing something based on a layer that also has yet to be implemented.

I did notice on live back then I was getting a lot more resists in general. I was quadding raptors mid/late 50s and it wasn't rare to get snare resists. On here since I dinged 45 or so I barely get any resists at all until mobs become 51+ basically. That may be tied to the same system (higher level spells getting more resists).

That system may be a prerequisite to fixing a lot of magic related issues and I'm not sure how well documented it is?

also, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the OPs conclusions in that thread but the code is the code.

[loramin]

In that thread nilbog acknowledged taking note of it and not being against it.

I read it diagonally (saved it for later, very interesting) but it seems like it is based on the notion that different spells levels are treated differently for resists and channelling and none of that stuff seem to be implemented on p99 so there's no real point of implementing something based on a layer that also has yet to be implemented.

I did notice on live back then I was getting a lot more resists in general. I was quadding raptors mid/late 50s and it wasn't rare to get snare resists. On here since I dinged 45 or so I barely get any resists at all until mobs become 51+ basically. That may be tied to the same system (higher level spells getting more resists).

That system may be a prerequisite to fixing a lot of magic related issues and I'm not sure how well documented it is?

also, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the OPs conclusions in that thread but the code is the code.

I get that true classic channelling is hard, and if Nilbog doesn't have the info to properly implement it, I can't fault him for that.

But again, what I just can't understand is ... if you're not going to implement classic channeling ... why not at least implement classically difficult channeling? Why keep things unclassically easy?

Even if we never get truly classic channeling, at any point over the past two decades Nilbog could have made the server more like live if he'd just:

changed a single number (the channeling rate)

[Goregasmic]

I get that true classic channelling is hard, and if Nilbog doesn't have the info to properly implement it, I can't fault him for that.

But again, what I just can't understand is ... if you're not going to implement classic channeling ... why not at least implement classically difficult channeling? Why keep things unclassically easy?

Even if we never get truly classic channeling, at any point over the past two decades Nilbog could have made the server more like live if he'd just:

My point was iif he implements this now he'd have to fudge the numbers and if he plans on fixing spell impacts that would be double the work since he'd have to take that fudged version out and the reimplement as the proposed version. I don't think he has that kind of time, if I was him I wouldn't bother.

[Snaggles]

We have any actual numbers on the channeling issue?

Fetter is 1.8 seconds. The epic is an 800hp rune. If you refresh it every root no way the average mob is going to chew though rune let alone get a lucky bash in.

Warriors without any channeling skill can get totem clicks on VS so long as Rune5 is still up when they are clicking.

(Unless I’m missing the context of the discussion, which is likely)

[sammoHung]

I have a 60 of both. Enchanter dies more often than the shaman, who rarely ever dies.

The shaman has ultimate survivability, but the enchanter has ultimate capability.

There's camps I have easily done on enchanter that just don't work for shaman - because shaman just can't kill fast enough. A simple example is NG in Sebilis. If you get a wizard or shaman as the pather, shaman doesn't have a reliable way to interrupt gate. If the pather gates, shaman is fuxxed. Or somewhere that requires pacify to be safe, like Disco or ABC.

Conversely: there are camps that I prefer to attempt on my shaman simply because there's a lack of mobs to charm - or because it's much safer with shaman (like King Tranix area in Sol B). If I can camp out in the armorer room in ABC, it's an easy low-effort camp for a shaman. Enchanter requires charming a krup that might break and might wind up in death. Also, enchanter can't tank Lodizal. I also find A4 in PoM way easier on a shaman.

I also have a Necro, and then there's a 3rd set of camps that I much prefer on my Necro to either of the other two. (Velks frenzy, for instance... I can just do it faster and safer on a Necro than the other two)

[Potus]

In classic charm was far, far less powerful (and safe), so Verant giving Enchanters C made perfect sense: classic Enchanters were primarily a group class.

Verant had no way of knowing that Nilbog would greatly reduce the difficulty of charming on his recreation server years later.

Literally just read an old thread from 2021 where you kept telling people who played Mages in 1999 to post evidence that the class isn't the same. And here you are saying this.

So where's the evidence?

[Goregasmic]

Literally just read an old thread from 2021 where you kept telling people who played Mages in 1999 to post evidence that the class isn't the same. And here you are saying this.

So where's the evidence?

If the claims about lull and channelling are right you basically can hardly lull anything and getting a stun/root off will be a lot harder. The whole channelling thing makes it that you'll probably also think twice before hasting/torching a pet because it is already hard enough to recover from a 51+ hasted mob quadding you.

Also, I have no proof but I feel spell resists in general might be lower than they should be on P99 so that would be another layer of pain.

[loramin]

Literally just read an old thread from 2021 where you kept telling people who played Mages in 1999 to post evidence that the class isn't the same. And here you are saying this.

So where's the evidence?

Huh? Could you at least provide a link to whatever it is I'm supposed to defend myself against, and maybe your (specific) objection to it? I've literally written 10+k posts here, and I don't have them all memorized.

[Snaggles]

25 years ago our ISP’s and computers were trash. Players were younger on average without 25 years of learning/fixating on a game. They didn’t all have a cleric or bot cleric a bud could log into for a click.

EQ people are different these days, regardless of coding. Back then the average person didn’t use charm in groups either. If we could time travel back, outside buying some stock and special cars, I expect we would mostly find OG players (and ourselves) to be dim and soft.

[Potus]

Huh? Could you at least provide a link to whatever it is I'm supposed to defend myself against, and maybe your (specific) objection to it? I've literally written 10+k posts here, and I don't have them all memorized.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395701

[Tann]

Literally just read an old thread from 2021 where you kept telling people who played Mages in 1999 to post evidence that the class isn't the same. And here you are saying this.

So where's the evidence?

That's the neat part, there isn't any, just memories <3

[Potus]

25 years ago our ISP’s and computers were trash. Players were younger on average without 25 years of learning/fixating on a game. They didn’t all have a cleric or bot cleric a bud could log into for a click.

EQ people are different these days, regardless of coding. Back then the average person didn’t use charm in groups either. If we could time travel back, outside buying some stock and special cars, I expect we would mostly find OG players (and ourselves) to be dim and soft.

It's really this. Switching from dial-up to cable modems made this game easier. I also remember charming a pet as a necro and stupid people trying to attack it/pull it constantly.

[loramin]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395701

So I said that people should bring evidence ... and they should. I still don't get your beef with me.

Others (like Azxten) have already brought evidence that channeling is off here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395675. That thread is four years old, but if it is ever fixed it will make charming significantly more challenging (ie. closer to classic).

[Snaggles]

I dont think a channeling nerf would change anything. Rune+Bedlam and charming stunnable stuff this is less of an issue (can’t interrupt what you can’t hit). Throw in a cleric with stun command and it’s a cruise control duo.

We all thought the pacify nerf was going to kill enchanters a few months ago. The good ones didn’t even take time off…

[loramin]

You're really going to argue charmers (including but not limited to Enchanters) don't have to channel to solo?

But look, it's all academic. We have bugs sitting for over four years that would make the server more classic, and they're just ignored. Far more significantly, we have a server that claims to emulate classic, but is obviously significantly different from live (on live Enchanters weren't even considered a soloing class, let alone the best soloing class in the game!)

Our emulator clearly doesn't emulate the original, and it's clear the person in charge of the server wants things to remain that way. It's his server, so it will. Nevertheless, I remain appreciative for the 95% of the server that is classic, and I can't really fault Nilbog for keeping his pet class unclassicly powerful: I certainly don't have the talent or energy to build a 95% classic server and run it for over a decade, so I can't really complain .

[Jimjam]

I dont think a channeling nerf would change anything. Rune+Bedlam and charming stunnable stuff this is less of an issue (can’t interrupt what you can’t hit). Throw in a cleric with stun command and it’s a cruise control duo.

We all thought the pacify nerf was going to kill enchanters a few months ago. The good ones didn’t even take time off…

You touch on another topic here which plays to the Enc's favour - spells are far more easily unresisted against xp mobs on here than I remember on live.

[Goregasmic]

I dont think a channeling nerf would change anything. Rune+Bedlam and charming stunnable stuff this is less of an issue (can’t interrupt what you can’t hit). Throw in a cleric with stun command and it’s a cruise control duo.

We all thought the pacify nerf was going to kill enchanters a few months ago. The good ones didn’t even take time off…

I've had situations where a hasted and torched pet killed me before stun could go off. When you get a stun resist it sends you reeling even more. I think getting like 33% interrupt chance PER HIT will absolutely change the game. That is basically a near guaranteed interrupt when getting quadded, or just 2 mobs landing a normal round. Right now I feel like it isn't even like 10% chance to get interrupted so I don't even bother loading 2 stuns but it might become mandatory with that change.

Pacify nerf sucks but when you need a 7mins lull Wake of Tranquility still works. It is more mana on a bigger cooldown but you have that option. Most fights will last less than 3m30s so pacify is good enough. It is only when you need to lull a big room with lots of resists that you need the 7 mins, like koro in chardok because otherwise you can just calm for the pull and chain dazzle adds midfight if you need to.

I heard it ruined the prince solo fight but that's about it. Outside of that it is mostly annoying but not a huge problem in general.

[Goregasmic]

(on live Enchanters weren't even considered a soloing class, let alone the best soloing class in the game!)

They can easily solo 1-60 with just the animation if they wanted. Not as fast and more work but a lot safer.

[Jimjam]

They can easily solo 1-60 with just the animation if they wanted. Not as fast and more work but a lot safer.

We've had huge revisions to how mage pets work on p99, and we know the ac/atk for NPCs (and so too pets?) is kina borked in a way that attempts to emulate classic feels, but isn't strictly classic, so who knows how classic combat between enc animation pets and xp mobs really is.

[loramin]

They can easily solo 1-60 with just the animation if they wanted. Not as fast and more work but a lot safer.

The classic answer (well, almost classic: 2003) was:

Enchanters can solo. Depending on level, zone, and mobs you're fighting, you can solo with your animation or with a charmed pet. Charmed pets are 5 times more powerful than your ani will ever be, but of course with charms you run the constant risk of the mob breaking charm. Ani soloing can work in certain, very rare circumstances. Your ani just doesn't have enough HP to last most battles. And, if you try to help him out with nukes, mezzes, roots, or whatever else, the mana it takes to kill a mob is completely not worth it.

Of course, that's just one player's report, but I thought it was nice that "GLASS Scholar" answered from across the decades :)

EDIT: From that same page, the perspective that Enchanters were a grouping class:

Do you want to be more effective in a group (enchanter) or more effective solo (Beastlord)? Also depends on what your goals are in the game. If you would like to be a necessary and desired class in the high end game, go with an enchanter.

[Snaggles]

You're really going to argue charmers (including but not limited to Enchanters) don't have to channel to solo?

Nope, I’m just just tired of the crying about the broken CHA duration and charm durations. If we have receipts, let’s wait for the fix.

That leads me to overreach with my generalizations. I’ve said many times before, I don’t play an enchanter, I respect people who do it’s just not my thing.

This “one wild trick” isn’t the reason everyone charms on p99. Outside dumb luck, there is a huge spread of skill with people who play these classes. The good ones will die, the bad ones will die far more often. Tweak charisma, let duration, channeling, humanity will adapt…it always does.

Digging up 20 year old forum posts about people acknowledging enchanters grouped isn’t necessary. We all remember finding them for our groups. People generally filled out a balanced group. PUG’s were a thing, they aren’t here. I’m sure they soloed as well, charming or without it.

[Snaggles]

We've had huge revisions to how mage pets work on p99, and we know the ac/atk for NPCs (and so too pets?) is kina borked in a way that attempts to emulate classic feels, but isn't strictly classic, so who knows how classic combat between enc animation pets and xp mobs really is.

If you slow something from 50-70% and haste a summoned pet, while buffing with Boon and spotting with bedlam, it’s gonna kill most things one would grind for exp. Enchanters can even dot and nuke.

Played like a mage, it’s not even that bad of a class.

[Goregasmic]

That sounds about right for p99 too. Animation is also trash here but you can make it work if you have to, it is just a bit more work but doable when it comes to xp grind. I'd also like to point out once again that on live the player skill floor was basically below the mariana trench so one guy saying shit is hard is indicative of nothing.

That's beyond the scope of the classic discussion but on p99 the main reason to get an ench in your group/raid is charm. You don't really need ench level CC or even slow really so you'd just become a c2/haste bot and the occasional raid sieve.

If all that stuff goes through before new server hits, expect a LOT MORE shamans/necros. I know I'd be going necro as soon as kunark hits.

[loramin]

If we have receipts, let’s wait for the fix.

I already linked the receipts (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395675). You can wait, but Nilbog has been sitting on them for four years: I wouldn't hold my breath.

To be clear though: this is Nilbog's server. If he wants to make it 95% classic, but keep his pet class a bit more powerful ... great! That is one of the smallest forms of repayment he could possibly ask given how much he's done for everyone here.

It just drives me crazy when people say stupid stuff about Enchanters being the gods of classic EverQuest. They were far from it, yet people talk about how Verant should have given half their spells to Wizards :eek:

If that had been anywhere close to reality, the classic EQ population would have demanded that Verant nerf Enchanters. After all, demanding that other classes be nerfed was very classic.

But, it wasn't the reality. Enchanter power comes from imperfections in our emulator ... not a flaw in the original game.

[loramin]

If all that stuff goes through before new server hits, expect a LOT MORE shamans/necros. I know I'd be going necro as soon as kunark hits.

https://i.imgur.com/49Grr1N.png

[Goregasmic]

It just drives me crazy when people say stupid stuff about Enchanters being the gods of classic EverQuest. They were far from it, yet people talk about how Verant should have given half their spells to Wizards :eek:

If that had been anywhere close to reality, the classic EQ population would have demanded that Verant nerf Enchanters. After all, demanding that other classes be nerfed was very classic.

But, it wasn't the reality. Enchanter power comes from imperfections in our emulator ... not a flaw in the original game.

It is true that p99 is skewed toward them but I feel like this is the worst argument. People had like 10+ years to git gud with enchanters on here with 15 years of prior knowledge while on live they had 3 years from scratch. And even then theres some chanter that posted a guide during classic and explained how it worked and said he was very effective with it.

I'd be extremely curious to know how many chanters knew to stack charisma, how to do the charm routine and how to deal effectively with a charm break. I would guess very little as the skill ceiling can be quite high in a game where most people weren't very good, mostly due to lack of knowledge.

I'd even argue than getting proefficient with charm takes quite a while and even then it can be mentally taxing to deal with both heavy CC and a pet at the same time so no wonder people with low experience and shit gear didn't bother back then. That and when zones were so crowded you only got a dozen mobs in camp every 20-28mins, there's no point in keeping a pet around. The increased DPS wasn't worth the liability.

[loramin]

I'd be extremely curious to know how many chanters knew to stack charisma, how to do the charm routine and how to deal effectively with a charm break. I would guess very little as the skill ceiling can be quite high in a game where most people weren't very good, mostly due to lack of knowledge.

They absolutely knew! This whole "live people were dumb" thing only applies to obscure knowledge; in everything else Live players were not dumb.

Charisma was even mentioned in an old post I was looking at today (although I closed the tab so I can't quote it). They were talking about how there was a soft cap at 200 Charisma, and it didn't appear to help much beyond that, but (apparently) Charisma up to 200 made a big difference for charm resists on live.

I could go find the post, but what would be even better is if you and other curious folks looked for yourself using Dolalin's incredible classic research search engine: https://search.eqarchives.org/

That way it won't be just me shouting into the wind, and the classic posts can speak for themselves.

[Goregasmic]

They absolutely knew! This whole "live people were dumb" thing only applies to obscure knowledge; in everything else Live players were not dumb.

Charisma was even mentioned in an old post I was looking at today (although I closed the tab so I can't quote it). They were talking about how there was a soft cap at 200 Charisma, and it didn't appear to help much beyond that, but (apparently) Charisma up to 200 made a big difference for charm resists on live.

I could go find the post, but what would be even better is if you and other curious folks looked for yourself using Dolalin's incredible classic research search engine: https://search.eqarchives.org/

That way it won't be just me shouting into the wind, and the classic posts can speak for themselves.

I looked at all the coments prior to 2002 on staple emch gear and most people seemed to recognize the importance of cha but not enough to stack it, it seemed like most people went int and if they could get cha too that was a bonus. Also there was no agreement on where the cap was, people thought it was either 120, 130, 150, 180...

And I had a monk alt back then and I can tell you most people didn't understand how DW works, the damage table on fists and the holy grail of weapons was wu stick + KD. I got an IFS for cheap because 1h was all the rage. People just didn't have 25+ years of knowledge on the game, it was impossible. Allakhazam wasn't the shadow of what the wiki is today. Hell even on P99 I see people confused about how DW works nowadays. We weren't dumb but the knowledge floor was wayyyy lower.

[Snaggles]

Loramin can’t even admit people played on dialup modems where if a family member picked up the phone your pet would kill you. These days we play on fiber ISP’s and SSD drives. That alone would certainly change the perception of charming.

Believing the average player on Live was as good as any Emulator is ridiculous. Case and point: Many of us were playing on live and are likely much better now.

[Potus]

So I said that people should bring evidence ... and they should. I still don't get your beef with me.

Others (like Azxten) have already brought evidence that channeling is off here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395675. That thread is four years old, but if it is ever fixed it will make charming significantly more challenging (ie. closer to classic).

I don't have a beef with you. You seem to have a beef with chanters and want to get *all casters* nerfed by messing with channeling for some reason. I don't understand. Ironically it'd nerf enchanters the least, as they have a 1.0 second AE stun and can time it to hit NPCs as soon as they're in melee range.



But look, it's all academic. We have bugs sitting for over four years that would make the server more classic, and they're just ignored. Far more significantly, we have a server that claims to emulate classic, but is obviously significantly different from live (on live Enchanters weren't even considered a soloing class, let alone the best soloing class in the game!)


Not sure what era you started playing EQ but this is false. Enchanters were always god-tier soloers. Enchanters/Shaman/Necros were the big three for soloing.

[loramin]

You seem to have a beef with chanters and want to get *all casters* nerfed by messing with channeling for some reason. I don't understand. Ironically it'd nerf enchanters the least, as they have a 1.0 second AE stun and can time it to hit NPCs as soon as they're in melee range.

Yeah, why have things classic when we can have unclassic easy mode ... and then talk all day about how things were easy in the original (even though they weren't)?

Not sure what era you started playing EQ but this is false. Enchanters were always god-tier soloers. Enchanters/Shaman/Necros were the big three for soloing.

A few examples:

Popular opinion is the best solo classes are necro, druid, and magician.

If you want to be different, the following classes can solo well if played
skillfully:

Ranger
Shadow Knight
Monk
Shaman
Wizard
Enchanter
Bard

>There are lots of classes that are good at both Soloing and grouping.
>Magicians, Druids, Warriors, Necromancers are the best solo classes.

Mages are excellent soloers, summoning powerful elementals and
wielding strong DD spells, but they are slow to get started, spending
time medding, summoning, and medding again before getting started.

Necromancers seem to me to be the most powerful class, whether solo or
in groups (I love what they bring to the table in a group, I wish they
were less soloable so they'd group more). However, they have issues
with merchants/faction and aren't particularly good at travel (not
that they are particularly BAD at it, just in comparison to the next
choices).

Since you mention short play times, I would suggest a Druid or Shaman.
They can both solo quite well, the edge being Druid, and both can get
into pick up groups easily, this edge being Shaman. Stat buffs may
well be a placebo for the most part, but us


It's generally considered that the best solo classes in the game are:

Necros
Druids
and Wizards, after level 29...

Magicians are quite good as well.



But again, go use https://search.eqarchives.org and see for yourself. Dolalin really did an awesome job of the site.

[Potus]

Yeah, why have things classic when we can have unclassic easy mode ... and then talk all day about how things were easy in the original (even though they weren't)?

Channeling seems pretty classic to me and like 99% of the people that play here.


A few examples:










But again, go use https://search.eqarchives.org and see for yourself. Dolalin really did an awesome job of the site.

None of this refutes what I said but that is a neat link, thank you.

[greatdane]

Ancient posts from back then are worth just about nothing. Loramin is quoting a post from a guy who says warrior is one of the best soloing classes. These kinds of sources have literally no value whatsoever when it comes to determining what is or isn't classic. People were generally clueless and half of their "knowledge" about the game was pure ignorance and imagination.

[Jimjam]

Ancient posts from back then are worth just about nothing. Loramin is quoting a post from a guy who says warrior is one of the best soloing classes. These kinds of sources have literally no value whatsoever when it comes to determining what is or isn't classic. People were generally clueless and half of their "knowledge" about the game was pure ignorance and imagination.

Warrior 100 % is best soloing class. You find a spot where you can single an xp mob, maybe by using a green to peel it off for you, then you turn on auto attack and afk for 3 mins, hope when you come back it is dead instead of you. Kill the pull assistant green, hit your 4xbandage and sit macro then come back 10 mins later to kill your next barely blue xp mob. Its the best.

[Duik]

]25 years ago our ISP’s and computers were trash. [/B]Players were younger on average without 25 years of learning/fixating on a game. They didn’t all have a cleric or bot cleric a bud could log into for a click.

EQ people are different these days, regardless of coding. Back then the average person didn’t use charm in groups either. If we could time travel back, outside buying some stock and special cars, I expect we would mostly find OG players (and ourselves) to be dim and soft.

Im interested in this time machine...

Bolded the bold statements i 100% agree with.

Im sure there were exceptions. In before...

[Jimjam]

I definitely was very bad.

However, now I have a level 21 warrior with maxed out sense heading, begging and fishing as well as a few self made pieces of studded armour. I am certain I’m much better at the game now, than when I struggled to make 19 on my shaman before luclin and failed to tailor any studded armour at all.

[Tann]

I definitely was very bad.

However, now I have a level 21 warrior with maxed out sense heading, begging and fishing as well as a few self made pieces of studded armour. I am certain I’m much better at the game now, than when I struggled to make 19 on my shaman before luclin and failed to tailor any studded armour at all.

If this ain't 100% proof of how channeling functioned back in 1999, then I don't know what is.

[loramin]

It's like everyone here forgets we're playing a simulation of another game ... and keeps ignoring the fact that the simulation doesn't match the original.

You can go off on tangents about how "stupid" live people were because some classic posts came from low-level players .... but you can find stupid posts by low-level players here too. We're not all geniuses who somehow "beat EverQuest", we're just players (the exact same as the original live players) who have a bit more accumulated knowledge at our disposal.

But, crucially, none of that accumulated knowledge should completely change the role of just one class, to switch from being a group class to the best solo class in the game! Only the person making the emulator can do that.

[Jimjam]

IDK, Loramine, I think several of us have touched on the fact it is an inaccurate reconstruction / simulation of a game.We've had huge revisions to how mage pets work on p99, and we know the ac/atk for NPCs (and so too pets?) is kina borked in a way that attempts to emulate classic feels, but isn't strictly classic, so who knows how classic combat between enc animation pets and xp mobs really is.

In fact, this realising this from the above post is why I degenerated into baseless whimsical nostalgia :D

If this ain't 100% proof of how channeling functioned back in 1999, then I don't know what is.

Thank you.

[loramin]

IDK, Loramine, I think several of us have touched on the fact it is an inaccurate reconstruction / simulation of a game.

In fact, this realising this from the above post is why I degenerated into baseless whimsical nostalgia :D



Thank you.

Sorry, I was only talking to a few people in the thread, and certainly not "everyone", so my use of the word was a bit rhetorical. I should have said something more like "everyone who thinks they are geniuses who are smarter than live players" :)

[Snaggles]

I’m not a genius. I sure know more than I did 25 years ago. I’d love to illustrate how dumb I was 25 years ago but as this is my evolved form…just use your imagination.

By my understanding there are three through-lines of logic here:

1.) The elf sim we pay $0 for is not 100% accurate to the original. There is some evidence to this, like how some mobs are overtuned on p99 (Sontalak) and resists are not nearly as effective (level 60 255Mr vs dragon roar on Faydedar). Loramin is super serious about how Enchanters should be worse so sure, he can have it I guess.

2.) The Bell Curve for performance on p99, Quarm, TAKP, etc is much higher than live 25 years ago. There is some evidence to what we have accomplished at this progression with some non-classic item nerfs or simply the amount of geared/leveled chars we have on average. When you apply heat to something, it refines the final product.

3.). There is a difference of knowledge and technology giving 2025 EQ players a distinct advantage. Duh.

I’m not saying one is true, and others are false. These are all variables at play and outside our control. I’m also dont care if “a class has a distinct advantage” over another (the world isn’t fair) unless we are locked from playing that class by a paywall.

I main a ranger on p99 and despite my many other “better” classes, I would delete them all to keep the one with an inferiority complex. When you aren’t the best, nobody assumes you will be. You have to work harder so there isn’t time to cry about things not being fair. When you do accomplish something remarkable though, you can’t beat that win :).

[loramin]

I’m not saying one is true, and others are false.

Agreed (with the whole post). Look, obviously there are going to be multiple reasons why X is different here vs. live, and not all of them are going to be "because our emulator is inaccurate".

I just think it's undeniable that one (and only one) class was viewed incredibly differently in '99-'01 vs. how it's viewed here ... and that the goal of this place should be to let people experience classic EQ.

I do disagree with this though:

I’m also dont care if “a class has a distinct advantage” over another (the world isn’t fair) unless we are locked from playing that class by a paywall.

I came here after playing on live and got to re-live the classic Shaman experience. Sure there were differences (eg. I remember being shocked when LOIO goblins cast serious spells on me), but almost everything was the same. It was incredible to get to have that experience again!

By making Enchanters an unclasic easy version of themselves, Nilbog is denying all those players that same experience. The harm isn't "other classes might get jealous", the harm is that 1/14th of our population (probably more since the class is so popular) are missing out on classic EQ.

P.S. I truly want to main an Enchanter in Green 2.0 ... but I want the real thing, not the easy version!

[Tann]

By making Enchanters an unclasic easy version of themselves, Nilbog is denying all those players that same experience. The harm isn't "other classes might get jealous", the harm is that 1/14th of our population (probably more since the class is so popular) are missing out on classic EQ.

P.S. I truly want to main an Enchanter in Green 2.0 ... but I want the real thing, not the easy version!

The thing is, this line of thinking is all based on how some people remember enchanters from back in the day.

I played a bard back in the day so I can't really speak for how they were. But i can say that they're strong here, but also strong on takp, quarm, THJ, and the TLPs.. a pattern perhaps? Class is just OP in all eras. Praise EQ for not having every class just different flavors of the same crap like games nowadays.

Example: back in the early days of WoW, raids were loaded with hunters because they all thought it was one of the top dps classes. Gotta get that legendary bow cause look at that dps!!! Fast forward to all the emu servers and then wow classic where it was like 90% warriors topping the meters and like 1 hunter per raid team. The game itself didn't change, people's knowledge did.

[Danth]

Example: back in the early days of WoW, raids were loaded with hunters because they all thought it was one of the top dps classes. Gotta get that legendary bow cause look at that dps!!! Fast forward to all the emu servers and then wow classic where it was like 90% warriors topping the meters and like 1 hunter per raid team. The game itself didn't change, people's knowledge did.

This is a very poor example that in reality makes the opposite point, because launch-era WoW was a very, very different game than the 1.12-based emulators and 2019 "classic." That game changed greatly. Didn't stop the 19'ers from convincing themselves otherwise though.

Similar issue on P99, you can very much see the difference between the folks who played original EQ and the players who either only played P99 or were little kids during the original era and consequently don't remember it very well.

[Goregasmic]

He still got a point though; you're never going to get classic back even if rogean makes it 100% accurate because people just know too much now. There were a lot more mages/wizards back then and you're never going to see that again. Same for most class population, they'll shift one way or another. Gear preferences and ZEM greatly changed the zone meta too. People didn't know about legacy items/pre-nerfs because they weren't nerfed/removed yet. It is never going to be the same again.

[Zuranthium]

The thing is, this line of thinking is all based on how some people remember enchanters from back in the day.

We have the exact classic data:

Spells are supposed to be resisted/break more frequently than they do now, and Charm even more so if you're not at least 11 levels higher than the thing you're charming.

Lull is supposed to be trash and literally never work on high level targets.

These are massive things, and channeling also being slightly overpowered on p99 (at high levels; it's severely overpowered at the lower levels compared to classic) adds a further layer of difference. There's also little things like pets dual wielding when being given a torch (unclassic) that make a difference.

Enchanters are still the best class in the game if given classic coding, and even with worse internet and hardware people were recognizing it by mid/late 2000. They should be less God-like though.

[Snaggles]

It’s very possible to emulate OG gameplay.

Enchanters can avoid tashing and giving their pets -MR gear. Don’t rune yourself and don’t wear CHA gear. Maybe give your pet +MR. Don’t torch them if you feel that’s too P99.

There you go, cue up the Papa Roach and randomly click off the internet.

PS: not aiming this at anyone. Been musing on it for a bit and finally got to post it, lol.

[Potus]

There's also little things like pets dual wielding when being given a torch (unclassic) that make a difference.


I was wondering why this bug was still around. Torches TURNED OFF dual wielding in 1999; everyone carried around bags of FS daggers.

[Jimjam]

I was wondering why this bug was still around. Torches TURNED OFF dual wielding in 1999; everyone carried around bags of FS daggers.

It is like a flag is flipped in the wrong direction.

[Duik]

There you go, cue up the Papa Roach and randomly click off the internet.

I had super shit dialup. This literally me.

[sammoHung]

Think of all the Chardok farmers! These hard-working, brave souls spend their days farming the same camps day in and day out - in order to bring their wares back to EC and sell. If it weren't for them - then Anklesmashers would be 50k still.

Don't even get me started on Seahorse Belts. You guys are sick, evil, twisted. Nerfing enchanters would have such an economic impact that would be felt for generations!

/s

[PatChapp]

Think of all the Chardok farmers! These hard-working, brave souls spend their days farming the same camps day in and day out - in order to bring their wares back to EC and sell. If it weren't for them - then Anklesmashers would be 50k still.

Don't even get me started on Seahorse Belts. You guys are sick, evil, twisted. Nerfing enchanters would have such an economic impact that would be felt for generations!

/s

I tried doing a group to hold fellspine once. Holy poop what a pain in the butt. It is doable,but you need a torpor shaman and 60enc at a minimum.
Once you have the 2 elementals split its not to bad if you keep on the spawns. Everything can be slowed,at least.
Just getting there is a challenge if you dont have drag+res available.
Solid 8/10 fun though.

[sammoHung]

I tried doing a group to hold fellspine once. Holy poop what a pain in the butt. It is doable,but you need a torpor shaman and 60enc at a minimum.
Once you have the 2 elementals split its not to bad if you keep on the spawns. Everything can be slowed,at least.
Just getting there is a challenge if you dont have drag+res available.
Solid 8/10 fun though.

Sirens Grotto almost seems like a joke from the devs. I knew literally nobody who ever hunted there back in the day, not even through Luclin and PoP.

I didn't even know the Seahorse belt was a thing until much later in EQ timeline.

[loramin]

Sirens Grotto almost seems like a joke from the devs. I knew literally nobody who ever hunted there back in the day, not even through Luclin and PoP.

I didn't even know the Seahorse belt was a thing until much later in EQ timeline.

It's actually because of this that the one thing I remember about Siren's Grotto is also the one thing I know isn't classic about it on P99 :)

On live, it was such a non-zone that everyone literally just skipped it .... because on live, you could camp on the wall when you first walk in, and when you logged back in you'd have glitched to the exit. Because the zone was such a mess, everyone I knew did that, and the glitch was common knowledge.

Now, I actually support the devs making it a viable zone and eliminating that glitch, but then they just stack unclassicness on top of unclassicness by introducing the pre-nerf OVP here (something which like five people had on live) ... which let's you basically do the same thing, and skip the zone. If they're going to do that, why not just keep things classic and keep the glitch that everyone used?

[Goregasmic]

Or just get an evac and a TOV bind and never have to set foot in there again.

[Snaggles]

Yep, just bind there and carry a swirling smoke portion if you want to be fancy.

If not, every class can get though the zone with a little practice and max swimming. The only remotely sketchy one is the magician but most have DA clicks (and bind there anyways).

[Wakanda]

As someone who plays an Enchanter and a Necromancer, I have a much easier time doing a lot of the same content on my Necromancer. I've also had other players tell me this in-game. It's a lot easier to grind farm on a Necromancer for a lot of things etc. even though Enchanters can do crazy stuff Necromancers can't.

I've solo'd both classes to 60 multiple times at this point. I can honestly say I've had more fun leveling an Enchanter than a Necromancer. I got a ton of value out of dark elf hide and the experience was so fast that it felt like I was PL'ing myself. I get fatigue really fast playing my Enc though because it requires so much more focus. Meanwhile I can log on a Necro without a care in the world and have a pretty easy time etc.

I think Lower Guk is a prime example. Enc and Necromancer can easily solo a lot of the dead-side content, but I think the Necromancer will probably have an easier / safer time doing so. Remember the first time I solo'd frenzied ghoul as a necromancer. Using charm too. Felt super trivial, not a care in the world. Enchanter on the other hand, I ended up gating out of fear for my life. Not having the extra damage, self heals, etc. led me to a pretty hairy during a charm break / ghoul root. Necro could have just life-tapped, but also with all the DoTs he has, kills mobs so much faster in that particular scenario that you don't feel in any serious danger.

Edit: Just remembered Mistmoore. My Enchanter almost died there. No high level mobs to charm, and enchanter pet is weak sauce. Meanwhile Necromancer pet can easily shred the entire zone.

[sammoHung]

As someone who plays an Enchanter and a Necromancer, I have a much easier time doing a lot of the same content on my Necromancer.

I feel the same way. I have an Enchanter, Necro and Shaman. Depending on the camp, one is much easier / safer than the others.

The thing that makes Necro so good, in my opinion: variety of solo tactics.

Root rotting 4-5 at a time is wonderful. Able to keep the entirety of Frenzy in Velks dead with root rotting, and not having babysit a charmed pet up the various ramps is baller.
Or, head to Droga and farm some skins by letting your EoT rip up the mobs (after dispelling the DS on them, naturally.)
Or, head to Skyshrine and spend countless, fruitless hours farming a Wurm Lord Shawl by Fear Kiting wurms.
Or, head to Chardok and grab a hasted, torched undead pet and rip shit up.

Options are a wonderful thing.

[kjs86z2]

Necro farms easy mobs better (EoT).

Shaman does +6 necks.

Enchanter does everything else miles better.

[Wakanda]

Shaman was one of my first characters when P99 Green was a new server and I remember feeling really weak compared to a lot of other classes. Watching Magicians and Necromancers breeze through Lower Guk and Sol B, meanwhile I have a weak ass pet and go OOM really fast etc. Would trigger me though because randos would imply that Shaman is the most OP character in the entire game and it's like... yall do realize this is classic right? Shaman isn't bad, but I don't have Torpor, Epic, Fungus, JBB bracer etc.

Even if a new players started on P99 right now, with no resources, he's going to have a really long road ahead of himself farming all the plat to get torpor, golem tear, even his 50+ DoTs are crazy expensive. Meanwhile Necromancer can basically run around naked and wreck people with cheap spells etc.

One thing I will say about Enchanter though... Charisma gear is really cheap. Especially on these older servers. My Enchanter wasn't a twink and still managed to hit 255 charisma (with self buffs) long before I hit level 50. Granted he was glass cannon AF.

[Goregasmic]

Shaman was one of my first characters when P99 Green was a new server and I remember feeling really weak compared to a lot of other classes. Watching Magicians and Necromancers breeze through Lower Guk and Sol B, meanwhile I have a weak ass pet and go OOM really fast etc. Would trigger me though because randos would imply that Shaman is the most OP character in the entire game and it's like... yall do realize this is classic right? Shaman isn't bad, but I don't have Torpor, Epic, Fungus, JBB bracer etc.

Even if a new players started on P99 right now, with no resources, he's going to have a really long road ahead of himself farming all the plat to get torpor, golem tear, even his 50+ DoTs are crazy expensive. Meanwhile Necromancer can basically run around naked and wreck people with cheap spells etc.

One thing I will say about Enchanter though... Charisma gear is really cheap. Especially on these older servers. My Enchanter wasn't a twink and still managed to hit 255 charisma (with self buffs) long before I hit level 50. Granted he was glass cannon AF.

Ench is still a 40k spellbook and if you want to go EC BiS today it would still cost you 80k or so, before you start getting stuff like zheart/ring of lightning/SS MQs. I mean, I started my ench from scratch on p99 and also got to 205 cha by 50 but I barely had any +hp/mana and I was sitting at like 160int. Ench tend to get reamed real good and your level 50+ spells are huge mana drains so you need both the hp and mana while the deeper you delve into dungeons the more resists you'll also want. Pre 60 you can absolutely get by on scraps but post 60 the better gear will absolutely enable you to do crazy shit and live to tell the tale.

[sammoHung]

Shaman was one of my first characters when P99 Green was a new server and I remember feeling really weak compared to a lot of other classes. Watching Magicians and Necromancers breeze through Lower Guk and Sol B, meanwhile I have a weak ass pet and go OOM really fast etc.

Bind Wound + Cannibalize tho. Infinite HP and Mana glitch

[spoil]

Ench is still a 40k spellbook and if you want to go EC BiS today it would still cost you 80k or so, before you start getting stuff like zheart/ring of lightning/SS MQs. I mean, I started my ench from scratch on p99 and also got to 205 cha by 50 but I barely had any +hp/mana and I was sitting at like 160int. Ench tend to get reamed real good and your level 50+ spells are huge mana drains so you need both the hp and mana while the deeper you delve into dungeons the more resists you'll also want. Pre 60 you can absolutely get by on scraps but post 60 the better gear will absolutely enable you to do crazy shit and live to tell the tale.

But obviously if you're a slightly better player then you're going to survive in scraps where a better geared player gets destroyed.

I saw a guy paying for a PL for a chanter from like 1-60, zheart, choker, SS MQs, PoM cards for the robe and back, paying for shawl LR and any epic piece, etc. etc. Like not lifting a finger to play this character. Maybe he's got a 60 on blue or something for all I know, but if not it's going to be a sad sight. Keeping an eye out for some WTS enc droppables from that guy in the near future.

[kjs86z2]

I'll tell you from personal experience, raid gear (FT8, big armor and HP) makes doing the solo shit a heck of a lot easier....and I've done everything but the sweatiest of solo artist stuff.

I didn't quite get to Zarza levels but this is what you want: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Zarza.

Int / Mana doesn't mean shit with FT8.

[druidbob]

Ench is still a 40k spellbook and if you want to go EC BiS today it would still cost you 80k or so, before you start getting stuff like zheart/ring of lightning/SS MQs. I mean, I started my ench from scratch on p99 and also got to 205 cha by 50 but I barely had any +hp/mana and I was sitting at like 160int. Ench tend to get reamed real good and your level 50+ spells are huge mana drains so you need both the hp and mana while the deeper you delve into dungeons the more resists you'll also want. Pre 60 you can absolutely get by on scraps but post 60 the better gear will absolutely enable you to do crazy shit and live to tell the tale.

I was spoiled playing a WIZ as my first caster on p99. No spell cost more than 300p, jboots were the most expensive gear necessary ( I bought a manna robe eventually but that was just for grins), and even though I got my epic through raiding, I recall the mq being pretty cheap compared to some other epics. Of course this was at a time when literally no one played wizard, so it might cost more now that they have become more popular, but still definitely the most budget friendly caster by far.

[Crede]

I'll tell you from personal experience, raid gear (FT8, big armor and HP) makes doing the solo shit a heck of a lot easier....and I've done everything but the sweatiest of solo artist stuff.

I didn't quite get to Zarza levels but this is what you want: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Zarza.

Int / Mana doesn't mean shit with FT8.

Way too much dkp.

EC enc can solo most of what that one can. Better off gearing a shaman or something for the stuff your enc can’t really do.

[Wakanda]

Ench is still a 40k spellbook and if you want to go EC BiS today it would still cost you 80k or so, before you start getting stuff like zheart/ring of lightning/SS MQs. I mean, I started my ench from scratch on p99 and also got to 205 cha by 50 but I barely had any +hp/mana and I was sitting at like 160int. Ench tend to get reamed real good and your level 50+ spells are huge mana drains so you need both the hp and mana while the deeper you delve into dungeons the more resists you'll also want. Pre 60 you can absolutely get by on scraps but post 60 the better gear will absolutely enable you to do crazy shit and live to tell the tale.

Was confused by this statement and then realized you are talking about Green. High level Enchanter spells are fairly cheap on Blue, but my 50+ Shaman DoTs on Blue still cost more than all of my Enc spells combined. Remember being disheartened when my Shaman had finally saved up 20K and I realized I was halfway to Torpor and only level 55 ! . . . and then had to drop 20K on Bane of Knife and didn't have 16K for Pox of Bert. when I finally hit level 59.

With my Enc on the other hand... the expensive spells are like level 60 haste, gift of pure thought etc. Things that aren't super critical to my class, especially as a solo player.

SHM on the other hand has to spend a lot of money on their basic DoTs, Torpor, Epic etc. Like what I mean is, if you just took a Shaman who had no Torpor or Epic... he's not even going to be in the discussion for most OP class in P99, meanwhile Enchanter can forego a lot of their pricy spells without a care in the world, especially while leveling.

[kjs86z2]

Was confused by this statement and then realized you are talking about Green. High level Enchanter spells are fairly cheap on Blue, but my 50+ Shaman DoTs on Blue still cost more than all of my Enc spells combined. Remember being disheartened when my Shaman had finally saved up 20K and I realized I was halfway to Torpor and only level 55 ! . . . and then had to drop 20K on Bane of Knife and didn't have 16K for Pox of Bert. when I finally hit level 59.

With my Enc on the other hand... the expensive spells are like level 60 haste, gift of pure thought etc. Things that aren't super critical to my class, especially as a solo player.

SHM on the other hand has to spend a lot of money on their basic DoTs, Torpor, Epic etc. Like what I mean is, if you just took a Shaman who had no Torpor or Epic... he's not even going to be in the discussion for most OP class in P99, meanwhile Enchanter can forego a lot of their pricy spells without a care in the world, especially while leveling.

dictate is more expensive than it has ever been

just a lot of enchanter farmer alts out there

[Goregasmic]

But obviously if you're a slightly better player then you're going to survive in scraps where a better geared player gets destroyed.

I saw a guy paying for a PL for a chanter from like 1-60, zheart, choker, SS MQs, PoM cards for the robe and back, paying for shawl LR and any epic piece, etc. etc. Like not lifting a finger to play this character. Maybe he's got a 60 on blue or something for all I know, but if not it's going to be a sad sight. Keeping an eye out for some WTS enc droppables from that guy in the near future.

Like loraen said, anybody can cast boltran, it is when it breaks that it becomes tricky. IMHO chanter is the kind of class you get good through repetition and dying. There comes a point you know everything that can go wrong and can anticipate how to solve that issue when it happens. And then when it happens enough times you get the muscle memory to quickly react appropriately. When you get an hasted and torched pet quadding you for like 30% of your life per round, if your reaction time isn't there you're gone. I have nothing against twinks but there's no point in powerleveling really if you intend to be more than a buff bot.


dictate is more expensive than it has ever been

just a lot of enchanter farmer alts out there

Took me 3 weeks to find a copy of bedlam at whatever price on green and there were like 3 other chanters looking for it at the time.

I don't know who's alt traktreasures is but if it wasn't for that juggs farming crew it would have taken a lot longer to get most of my level 50+ spells.

[sammoHung]

I bought dictate for 25k on Green 2 years ago. I haven't casted it once.

[kjs86z2]

I bought dictate for 25k on Green 2 years ago. I haven't casted it once.

you arent doing anything tricky on your enchanter then

[sammoHung]

you arent doing anything tricky on your enchanter then

Truth. I really just bought it to finish the spellbook. As I mentioned before, lots of camps I prefer on either SHM or NEC over ENC. Enc is really for Sebilis if I need a drop there, or to just run around buffing people.

I promised myself I'd try Chardok one day - but what for? Anything really good thats no drop and worth camping there? I'm a filthy casual these days.

EDIT: Actually, I won't even do that lol. I can't do something non-raid related for more than 1-2 hours at a time these days in P99.

[PatChapp]

Truth. I really just bought it to finish the spellbook. As I mentioned before, lots of camps I prefer on either SHM or NEC over ENC. Enc is really for Sebilis if I need a drop there, or to just run around buffing people.

I promised myself I'd try Chardok one day - but what for? Anything really good thats no drop and worth camping there? I'm a filthy casual these days.

EDIT: Actually, I won't even do that lol. I can't do something non-raid related for more than 1-2 hours at a time these days in P99.

If your guild does trak,can dictate a jugg and do big damage. If you manage to torch and haste it,can do 10k. At least fun to do once

[Goregasmic]

Truth. I really just bought it to finish the spellbook. As I mentioned before, lots of camps I prefer on either SHM or NEC over ENC. Enc is really for Sebilis if I need a drop there, or to just run around buffing people.

I promised myself I'd try Chardok one day - but what for? Anything really good thats no drop and worth camping there? I'm a filthy casual these days.

EDIT: Actually, I won't even do that lol. I can't do something non-raid related for more than 1-2 hours at a time these days in P99.

For ench theres a ton of good items.

If not ench, HGLs, halfling mask and herb LRs sell well.

Lots of gear that sell more or less well. Seems like the 1-3k items sell relatively fast and everything that goes for 8-16k can take a lot longer to sell. Also some camps in there are a PITA while some others are nearly effortless. Depends on your style.

[sammoHung]

For ench theres a ton of good items.

If not ench, HGLs, halfling mask and herb LRs sell well.

Lots of gear that sell more or less well. Seems like the 1-3k items sell relatively fast and everything that goes for 8-16k can take a lot longer to sell. Also some camps in there are a PITA while some others are nearly effortless. Depends on your style.

I thrived on my enchanter doing one spawn every 27 minutes like sebilis. Frenzied pox may be my favorite ENC camp because you can either just kill 1 mob, or if you have some time - kill all of Disco.

I just haven't got the patience / time / willpower to do long camps anymore. I did 40 hours over 3 days at Hierophant Grekal before a cloak dropped and ever since I've not farmed much items

[Goregasmic]

I thrived on my enchanter doing one spawn every 27 minutes like sebilis. Frenzied pox may be my favorite ENC camp because you can either just kill 1 mob, or if you have some time - kill all of Disco.

I just haven't got the patience / time / willpower to do long camps anymore. I did 40 hours over 3 days at Hierophant Grekal before a cloak dropped and ever since I've not farmed much items

Yeah I get it, took me 26 auditors before I got my girdle of rapidity, was pretty burnt out after that one.. Sometimes I did koro's room for 8 hours and got nothing to show for it. Sometimes I just do a check up before going to work and gi'mok is up with a ring of stealthy travel and next round ni'bizi pops with a devastator and I just bagged 11k in like 30 mins, RNG gonna RNG. Nowadays I just pick a spawn while doing chores usually and come check on it every 20 mins. I did bartender in seb a couple weeks ago for the greaves and I got a RBG right off the bat but it took me about 70 rounds to get the legs. Should have just shelled the 4k but that's everquest I guess! The thing is, you won't learn much about enchanteeering in chardok but spending time in the rougher sebilis camps or HS wings will make you a much better chanter than buying junk in EC.

Did you ever get an IFS from frenzied pox? Drop rate is unclear.

[Vivitron]

Yeah, factioning for Chardok is a bar to clear, but then there's pretty much always at least some camp open on an 18-20 min spawn that you can just run straight to and take for a few cycles. So that's pretty casual friendly. Going for a specific drop though it's easy to get drawn in to the equivalent of that 40 our hiero camp.

Kind of a fun zone in that a lot of classes can do some solo work including the shaman and necro, but the enchanter can do more and is cheesy good there.

[Snaggles]

Honorable mention to the Druid in Chardok. Good players have put down solid targets.

The extent of of my Druid work has been dabbling in Kedge and camping my own dragons bane herb in SG. I did a few rounds of that with the shaman and hated life so much I switched and never looked back.

[sammoHung]

Did you ever get an IFS from frenzied pox? Drop rate is unclear.

I did 57-60 exclusively @ Frenzied Pox in seb. I saw a total of 4 IFS drop in that time. Don't remember the time frame how long it took - but I did not move my enchanter until I dinged 60 and got about 30% in - and only saw 4 IFS in all of that time.

[Goregasmic]

I did 57-60 exclusively @ Frenzied Pox in seb. I saw a total of 4 IFS drop in that time. Don't remember the time frame how long it took - but I did not move my enchanter until I dinged 60 and got about 30% in - and only saw 4 IFS in all of that time.

Yeah, someone told me they killed 30 FPS and never seen an IFS. wiki only states "ultra rare". MQemu states 6,6%. Wouldn't be surprised if it is like the usual 5% for almost all weapons in chardok. I think the other seb weaps are generally pretty rare too. I also thought about parking my chanter there and just popping in and out but figured doing the same thing at any other camp and sell loot to buy the thing would be much faster.

[PatChapp]

Last IFS I camped I had about 8hrs into it. Felt pretty normal,I've camped quite a few of them.i once had 2 drop off 2 spawns in a row,and I have had the week of nothing ofcourse. If you mix in the disco scarab you get some gem loot at least in between.

[sammoHung]

Yah, I came out of seb with almost a full stack of fire opals - about 10-15 diamonds, blue diamonds, sapphires. In just gems I think I made like 7-8k from 57-60 there. plus a bunch of DW Bracers to vendor. The froglok ostiary also spawns outside the room who drops Donal's Vambraces. Also when I felt brave I tried Gruplinort.

Oh yeah, and I got bored and started charming every mob in disco and giving them a Beetle Stinger before releasing them.

[kjs86z2]

Seb is the best zone imo.

Miss the days back in '14/'15/'16 when it was poppin 24/7.

[Crede]

Seb is the best zone imo.

Miss the days back in '14/'15/'16 when it was poppin 24/7.

12/13/14 was way better with chardok AOE. oh how i miss that xp/cash

[kjs86z2]

12/13/14 was way better with chardok AOE. oh how i miss that xp/cash

oh i definitely whored my enchanter stuns in that racket for a good while

[sammoHung]

Seb is the best zone imo.

Miss the days back in '14/'15/'16 when it was poppin 24/7.

I didnt play back then, but agreed Seb is best. Best lore, best aesthetic, best camps. Awesome drops too.