Bring back the Dark Men of Odus

[ya.dingus]

Now that we're out of the age of illogical, contradictory, woke policies that are as racist as they were incoherent, I move to bring back the Dark Men of Odus.

They were never racist, they were an RP guild, and it is my hope that the community has gained the IQ needed to recognize the difference between fantasy elves, trolls, ogres, dark elves, and erudites, hating each other (aka the faction and religion system), from actual real life racism.

Don't let this nonsense define the community -- I don't want to be placed in the same bucket as these post modernists who are legitimate racists.

[zelld52]

If a guild name and in-character framing make people think its racist—and even GM action disbanding the guild - calling it ‘just RP’ doesn’t hold water.

Also, you used "woke" unironically, another buzzword in the never ending culture wars. Filed under not serious.

[shovelquest]

Racist is a buzzword in the never ending culture wars too.

[zelld52]

Damnit i told myself i wouldnt engage with p99 forums today and i alreayd have broken that promise. oh well, enjoy the convo everyone cya when were talking about game mechanics

[Infectious]

We need one of the forum sissys to check in and see if this allowed. Don't want to anger anybody during their transformation.

[kjs86z2]

lol nirgon smiling from forum heaven

[shovelquest]

If there is one thing I knew about Nirgon, if there could be a nefarious reason for something he did, he did it for that reason :p

[Duik]

Just start it up and try ya luck!

[loramin]

They were never racist, they were an RP guild, and it is my hope that the community has gained the IQ needed to recognize the difference between fantasy elves, trolls, ogres, dark elves, and erudites, hating each other (aka the faction and religion system), from actual real life racism.

In a fantasy game of "elves, trolls, ogres, dark elves", the one thing you desperately want to roleplay is ... dark-skinned humans? :rolleyes:

[ya.dingus]

If a guild name and in-character framing make people think its racist—and even GM action disbanding the guild - calling it ‘just RP’ doesn’t hold water.

Also, you used "woke" unironically, another buzzword in the never ending culture wars. Filed under not serious.

Woke is a buzz word?

No, it isn't. It's the embodiment of a set of ideas that propose to pursue the fictional notion of social justice, but are the old vices of social cooling, censorship, segregation, racism, societal disruption, and destabilization masquerading as virtues.

The only difference is if you know your history or don't. The term is apt and accurate here.

[zelld52]

Woke is a buzz word?

No, it isn't. It's the embodiment of a set of ideas that blah blah blah I heard some words on my favorite podcast and my favorite news presenter said this stuff and watch me parrot it as I sit inside my insulated bubble without having any real world experience meeting or talking to people from throughout the world.

[ya.dingus]

You're very saucy if not somewhat confused on the issue.

Regardless back to the main topic.

Bring back the Dark Men of Odus.

[ya.dingus]

In a fantasy game of "elves, trolls, ogres, dark elves", the one thing you desperately want to roleplay is ... dark-skinned humans? :rolleyes:

Play as the most evolved, esoteric, and culturally interesting part of humanity lore wise in everquest?

Yes, yes I do.

[Swish]

Best recruitment vid p99 ever had...

hopIJ21NqIM

[kjs86z2]

also the highest int

who doesnt want to roleplay as Yakub

[Swish]

https://i.imgur.com/C1l5ojE.png

[shovelquest]

https://i.imgur.com/C1l5ojE.png

https://i.imgur.com/OQ3RNkG.png

[ya.dingus]

https://i.imgur.com/C1l5ojE.png

[sajbert]

I liked the DMoO players I encountered but I'm just gonna guess that there was some merit to the ban. P99 devs seem pretty chill for most part and not really woke by any common standards.

On a sidenote, Erudites are badass.

[ya.dingus]

I liked the DMoO players I encountered but I'm just gonna guess that there was some merit to the ban. P99 devs seem pretty chill for most part and not really woke by any common standards.

On a sidenote, Erudites are badass.

If they were chill, they wouldn't have banned DMoO.

It was a political move.

It's time for some real social justice. Bring back Dark Men of Odus.

[Ennewi]

It's been how many years and no other creative guild was cobbled together by the same leadership.

No <Blue Man Group> comprised entirely of dark elves, allowing for rogues/bards with masks and all others with guises. No <Skeleton Crew> of necromancers, SKs, enchanters, and other Bert followers with AoNs? No <Fair Maidens of Faydwer>? Nothing to suggest a genuine interest in roleplaying. Granted, it was a cool idea but, as with most everything EQ-related, likely ruined by a few at the expense of the many.

Throughout the entire history of the project, count out the number of guilds that were disbanded by staff. You really have to go out of your way to get scattered to the four winds on here. One exception does come to mind, but even they weren't disbanded by staff directly.

[shovelquest]

It's actually based they got rid of that guild.

[ya.dingus]

Yeah I don't believe that for a second. This was politically motivated by tensions between members, and racism was just the scapegoat.

[shovelquest]

racism was just the scapegoat.

https://i.imgur.com/vBKhluo.png

[Ennewi]

Yeah I don't believe that for a second. This was politically motivated by tensions between members, and racism was just the scapegoat.

Ah yes... "Help, I'm being repressed!" Solid forum roleplaying.

[ya.dingus]

Ah yes... "Help, I'm being repressed!" Solid forum roleplaying.

Seemed to hit a nerve there to get this much interest.

Seems like there's a story to be told there.

[Ennewi]

Seemed to hit a nerve there to get this much interest.

Seems like there's a story to be told there.

Eh it's just a shame that the thematic RP potential wasn't fully realized by the guild and instead it seemed to be reduced to what ends up in RNF.

Few guilds have managed to add in that part of classic nostalgia, simply by including self-imposed restrictions; requirements that fit a specific, immediately identifiable theme; etc.

This was prevalent in 1999, but has been largely absent on these servers, with the overall atmosphere being more MMO and less RPG. Granted, the latter is at times awkward and excessive. When done right though, without walls of text, there's something about it that changes interactions for the better. Ninik was a good example.

As cool as it is seeing full BiS or learning about the new meta/emergent gameplay amid so much jank, there's that other aspect of the game that's still there, lingering in the scenery while players sock windows and strafe for FTEs. The original idea behind the game, however dated.

[Reiwa]

I never got an adequate explanation from them as to what was 'Dark' about them if not their magic or their religion.

Nirgon was(is?) a Bircher though.

[Drueric]

Now that we're out of the age of illogical, contradictory, woke policies that are as racist as they were incoherent, I move to bring back the Dark Men of Odus.

They were never racist, they were an RP guild, and it is my hope that the community has gained the IQ needed to recognize the difference between fantasy elves, trolls, ogres, dark elves, and erudites, hating each other (aka the faction and religion system), from actual real life racism.

Don't let this nonsense define the community -- I don't want to be placed in the same bucket as these post modernists who are legitimate racists.

There is an iksar only guild, so why is this an issue. (Ironically the GM of that guild isnt even an iksar....) Seems like any guild with exclusivity would also get the ban. I mean, if they dont, what does that say about the devs.

[Reiwa]

There is an iksar only guild, so why is this an issue. (Ironically the GM of that guild isnt even an iksar....) Seems like any guild with exclusivity would also get the ban. I mean, if they dont, what does that say about the devs.

I think it says they aren't fooled by people being intentionally obnoxious.

[shovelquest]

Thank god we got rid of the silliness.

[Duik]

If they were chill, they wouldn't have banned DMoO.

It was a political move.

It's time for some real social justice. Bring back Dark Men of Odus.

Start the guild then ya coward.

Be its proud leader, advertise. Take back your rights!

[Duik]

Elon. Elven Legions Of Norrath. Prexus guild early on.

Sounds a bit political to me

[Praxcthius]

True role playing would mean the players only talk in chirps and whirrs

[Duik]

True role playing would mean the players only talk in chirps and whirrs

Clockwork Gnomes?

[ya.dingus]

Clockwork Gnomes?

Start the guild then ya coward.

Be its proud leader, advertise. Take back your rights!

Don't you need a full group to start it?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

ITT: every type of erudite

[CrazyPro]

blame Ramal

[Swish]

he's innocent

[Drueric]

I think it says they aren't fooled by people being intentionally obnoxious.

Pretty sure thats not it.

[CrazyPro]

DMO was a slippery slope from the start and attracted some bad actors
If you want to have an Erudite RP guild at least don't give it a questionable name and don't make your RP as weird as possible.

[Swish]

Funny how the blandest guilds survive, isnt it?

[ya.dingus]

DMO was a slippery slope from the start and attracted some bad actors
If you want to have an Erudite RP guild at least don't give it a questionable name and don't make your RP as weird as possible.

A questionable name? You're gonna have to explain to me that one.

[Ennewi]

Regular old guilds are more user-friendly and better able to meet the demands of the MMO which typically offers more rewards than the RPG side of the game. it's already a PITA trying to accomplish x, y, z during the original timeline, what with all of the bottlenecks and clusterfucks, but then suddenly all of that ass pain is increased for a guild when its class options are restricted by the one race they've chosen to fit a theme. A solution to this would be to allow for one or two more races.

A human-only guild could manage well enough, facing no setbacks if barbarians and erudites were included. Same but to a lesser extent with gnomes, if they were to include dwarves and halflings. Wood elves, high elves, and half elves wouldn't have access to feign death, and it would be hard to explain away the inclusion of dark elves. Ogres and trolls would need a shit ton of reapers to compensate for having no clerics, and their one bard with da oogly stick would be working overtime. At least iksars would have more bards, not to mention rogues, plus monks and necromancers. Not great but still.

On their own, erudites would get bards and rogues, assuming again that masks are allowed, but the lack of warriors would be a nagging setback, largely confining them to content from Kunark and earlier.

[ya.dingus]

Regular old guilds are more user-friendly and better able to meet the demands of the MMO which typically offers more rewards than the RPG side of the game. it's already a PITA trying to accomplish x, y, z during the original timeline, what with all of the bottlenecks and clusterfucks, but then suddenly all of that ass pain is increased for a guild when its class options are restricted by the one race they've chosen to fit a theme. A solution to this would be to allow for one or two more races.

A human-only guild could manage well enough, facing no setbacks if barbarians and erudites were included. Same but to a lesser extent with gnomes, if they were to include dwarves and halflings. Wood elves, high elves, and half elves wouldn't have access to feign death, and it would be hard to explain away the inclusion of dark elves. Ogres and trolls would need a shit ton of reapers to compensate for having no clerics, and their one bard with da oogly stick would be working overtime. At least iksars would have more bards, not to mention rogues, plus monks and necromancers. Not great but still.

On their own, erudites would get bards and rogues, assuming again that masks are allowed, but the lack of warriors would be a nagging setback, largely confining them to content from Kunark and earlier.

Perish that thought. Erudites are the most magically advanced and intelligent race. They're not going to settle for facsimiles over the real thing.

No, you're a son of Erud, or you're not. The matter is simple.

[Ennewi]

Alternatively, a thematic guild could be formed after the fact, with the majority of its members having already acquired BIS, allowing them to push their classes to the limit on content that would provide a challenge and remain profitable. This seems like more of possibility as the servers continue to age. After every guild/player has every item/experience they wanted, what then? Either make alts, complete solo artist challenges, or delevel back to one and revisit old content twinked to the hilt. Doing so, as a thematic guild, would add a layer of challenge to the attempt at higher levels.

[ya.dingus]

Alternatively, a thematic guild could be formed after the fact, with the majority of its members having already acquired BIS, allowing them to push their classes to the limit on content that would provide a challenge and remain profitable. This seems like more of possibility as the servers continue to age. After every guild/player has every item/experience they wanted, what then? Either make alts, complete solo artist challenges, or delevel back to one and revisit old content twinked to the hilt. Doing so, as a thematic guild, would add a layer of challenge to the attempt at higher levels.

Nay. Sons of Erud are true of their intention. Whatever the cost to gameplay, it is worth the sacrifice for the true brotherhood that comes with unity only with your brothers.

You are no son of Erud, and it shows.

[Ennewi]

You are no son of Erud, and it shows.

Rude.

[cd288]

I liked the DMoO players I encountered but I'm just gonna guess that there was some merit to the ban. P99 devs seem pretty chill for most part and not really woke by any common standards.

On a sidenote, Erudites are badass.

They were banned because they deleted the UN channel which caused a big pain in the ass/problem for the staff

[cd288]

In a fantasy game of "elves, trolls, ogres, dark elves", the one thing you desperately want to roleplay is ... dark-skinned humans? :rolleyes:

Yes Loramin we all know you want to call them racist and judge them for their guild. You've told us all that before.

Slightly ironic though considering your post about supporting free speech in the Off Topic forum

[Swish]

A lot of people in this thread aren't farming all that loot it seems.

[CrazyPro]

A questionable name? You're gonna have to explain to me that one.

Can you please explain to me what is "dark" about them if not the color of their skin? Because it sure doesn't have anything to do with the kind of magic they use as the guild wasn't exclusive to paineel factioned erudites. Even if that's somehow not the intent of the name, it flattens the identity into something merely visual and racialized.

When someone says "dark men", even if literally describing skin tone, the cultural baggage makes it sound like you're conflating race and morality, even if that wasn’t your intent.

There are so many other words you could pick that couldn't be construed as racist.
Why not <High Men of Odus>? <High Council of Erudin>, <Disciples of Erud>, literally anything else.

It just seems like an insensitive thing to name an Erudite-only guild.

[cd288]

The problem with the racism argument is that at no point in any channel, whether in-game, on the forums, or in Discord did any member of DMO ever make any racist statements. Nor were they ever banned or disciplined for racism. If they hadn't intentionally deleted the UN channel then they'd likely still be around.

[WarpathEQ]

Can you please explain to me what is "dark" about them if not the color of their skin? Because it sure doesn't have anything to do with the kind of magic they use as the guild wasn't exclusive to paineel factioned erudites. Even if that's somehow not the intent of the name, it flattens the identity into something merely visual and racialized.

When someone says "dark men", even if literally describing skin tone, the cultural baggage makes it sound like you're conflating race and morality, even if that wasn’t your intent.

There are so many other words you could pick that couldn't be construed as racist.
Why not <High Men of Odus>? <High Council of Erudin>, <Disciples of Erud>, literally anything else.

It just seems like an insensitive thing to name an Erudite-only guild.

Interesting that you so elequently laid out this logical reasoning why using the word "dark" is inappropriate and in the same breathe recommended a name change that also used the word "men". Talk about identity flattening...

[Reiwa]

The problem with the racism argument is that at no point in any channel, whether in-game, on the forums, or in Discord did any member of DMO ever make any racist statements. Nor were they ever banned or disciplined for racism. If they hadn't intentionally deleted the UN channel then they'd likely still be around.

They said plenty of racial supremacist stuff about Antonicans?

[loramin]

The problem with the racism argument is that at no point in any channel, whether in-game, on the forums, or in Discord did any member of DMO ever make any racist statements. Nor were they ever banned or disciplined for racism. If they hadn't intentionally deleted the UN channel then they'd likely still be around.

You have access to everything every DMO member has ever said?

[CrazyPro]

Interesting that you so elequently laid out this logical reasoning why using the word "dark" is inappropriate and in the same breathe recommended a name change that also used the word "men". Talk about identity flattening...

You bring up a good point. It's an antiquated use of the word to refer to an entire population of people that can come off as sexist nowadays.

But at the same time, I raise to you this:
Do you accept sisters of Odus? They cannot join our order but we accept them.

[ya.dingus]

Can you please explain to me what is "dark" about them if not the color of their skin? Because it sure doesn't have anything to do with the kind of magic they use as the guild wasn't exclusive to paineel factioned erudites. Even if that's somehow not the intent of the name, it flattens the identity into something merely visual and racialized.

When someone says "dark men", even if literally describing skin tone, the cultural baggage makes it sound like you're conflating race and morality, even if that wasn’t your intent.

There are so many other words you could pick that couldn't be construed as racist.
Why not <High Men of Odus>? <High Council of Erudin>, <Disciples of Erud>, literally anything else.

It just seems like an insensitive thing to name an Erudite-only guild.

Let's break this down from multiple viewpoints, as I believe your argument is intrinsically flawed from multiple facets.

1) Dark doesn't need to be defined. It can be left mysterious, just like how certain texts rely on interpretation of the reader, part of that interpretation adds to the mystery and the fun of it.

However --

2) Let's hypothetically grant your point and say Dark is linked to skin color, and that is what it refers to (this is hypothetical, I will reiterate, this is not what I am claiming).

My question is, what is your point if it is?

That's not racist, that's a descriptor. It's not assigning character qualities neither positive or negative, it's a physical descriptor speaking to a demographic. There is nothing inheriently racist about this.

It's the same thing as asking about a person's race on a population census. There is neither positive nor negative qualities about this, merely used as a tool in human languages as a descriptor.

The problem is that it is YOU that are assigning some kind of nefarious meaning to a certain type of physical description. Your personal (and illogical) inference betrays exactly what you think about certain types of people, and that simply by mentioning a physical descriptor that it carries a negative connotation.

The only logical justification to explain your interpretation is that you have some kind of inherent bias and racism you are applying to the term, and that you are projecting that interpretation on others.

You're actually the problem here, assuming that's what you meant.

I'll be charitable and assume you don't actually mean that however, do you?

These sub 100 Int Antonicans man. Gotta spell out literally everything for them.

[Ennewi]

These sub 100 Int Antonicans man. Gotta spell out literally everything for them.

What's this? Ableism?!

[ya.dingus]

What's this? Ableism?!

That depends on the situation. Is it a disability, or simply being willfully ignorant as the cause (having below 100 int/wis)?

One's fine, the other isn't.

[Ennewi]

That depends on the situation. Is it a disability, or simply being willfully ignorant as the cause (having below 100 int/wis)?

One's fine, the other isn't.

Other possibilities exist.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Curse_of_the_Simple_Mind

https://wiki.project1999.com/Idiot_Savant%27s_Cap

[CrazyPro]

Let's break this down from multiple viewpoints, as I believe your argument is intrinsically flawed from multiple facets.

1) Dark doesn't need to be defined. It can be left mysterious, just like how certain texts rely on interpretation of the reader, part of that interpretation adds to the mystery and the fun of it.

However --

2) Let's hypothetically grant your point and say Dark is linked to skin color, and that is what it refers to (this is hypothetical, I will reiterate, this is not what I am claiming).

My question is, what is your point if it is?

That's not racist, that's a descriptor. It's not assigning character qualities neither positive or negative, it's a physical descriptor speaking to a demographic. There is nothing inheriently racist about this.

It's the same thing as asking about a person's race on a population census. There is neither positive nor negative qualities about this, merely used as a tool in human languages as a descriptor.

The problem is that it is YOU that are assigning some kind of nefarious meaning to a certain type of physical description. Your personal (and illogical) inference betrays exactly what you think about certain types of people, and that simply by mentioning a physical descriptor that it carries a negative connotation.

The only logical justification to explain your interpretation is that you have some kind of inherent bias and racism you are applying to the term, and that you are projecting that interpretation on others.

You're actually the problem here, assuming that's what you meant.

I'll be charitable and assume you don't actually mean that however, do you?

These sub 100 Int Antonicans man. Gotta spell out literally everything for them.

I am not assigning negative meaning to anything, this sounds like gaslighting to me. The point is that the name, given the context of it being an Erudite-only guild, is ambiguous.
Just don't put a real life racial descriptor in your Erudite RP guild name, just seems kind of weird. If it can be taken the wrong way, give it a different name.
But in my opinion we need an Ogre RP guild, critical thinking is overrated when you can just ransack villages for fun.

[ya.dingus]

I am not assigning negative meaning to anything, this sounds like gaslighting to me. The point is that the name, given the context of it being an Erudite-only guild, is ambiguous.
Just don't put a real life racial descriptor in your Erudite RP guild name, just seems kind of weird. If it can be taken the wrong way, give it a different name.
But in my opinion we need an Ogre RP guild, critical thinking is overrated when you can just ransack villages for fun.

I'll try to be concise and address your points:

1) You assigning meaning is the very crux of the issue. In your own post you quoted Even if that's somehow not the intent of the name, it flattens the identity into something merely visual and racialized.

You're both extremely clear in your intent and interpretation of what you believe the matter to be.

2) Gaslighting isn't positing someone may be incorrect based on their argument / counter arguments (as I provided). Neither is it lying. Gaslighting is the combination of refuting a person's reality while claiming they have some sort of deficiency "they're crazy/unstable, dishonest, etc).

What I'm saying is, that term doesn't mean what you think it means, and you've used it in the wrong context.

3) Not only did I extend a charitable interpretation of your definition, attempting to give you some wiggle room to back out of the flawed position you found yourself in, you then took that good will and attempted to appeal to character assassination (ad hominem) to defend an indefensible position. In short, and while I'm at the risk of being ironic, you're being incredibly intellectually disingenuous.


4) racial descriptor in your Erudite RP, just seems kind of weird. Again, a racial descriptor does not determine positive or negative qualities. It's simply a descriptor.

It seems you're so very desperate to force people into thinking that race must carry a bias (and in the examples above, a negative bias), but that's categorically and demonstrably not the case, and very much the definition of "racist".

Now please, for your sake, stop being silly. You're making my points for me at this juncture.



PS:
If it can be taken the wrong way, give it a different name.

Giving into mental insanity doesn't make you right, it makes you foolish for not standing up for the correct thing, and that's a character flaw.

[Reiwa]

I don't think there's a risk of DMO actually coming back, so if you just let this guy be "right" he won't get to be a pest anymore.

[ya.dingus]

I don't think there's a risk of DMO actually coming back, so if you just let this guy be "right" he won't get to be a pest anymore.

In lieu of an argument, you've resorted to character assassination again.

This speaks more about you than me.

[Reiwa]

In lieu of an argument, you've resorted to character assassination again.

This speaks more about you than me.

WRgjLXrUebw

[CrazyPro]

I'll try to be concise and address your points:

1) You assigning meaning is the very crux of the issue. In your own post you quoted

You're both extremely clear in your intent and interpretation of what you believe the matter to be.

2) Gaslighting isn't positing someone may be incorrect based on their argument / counter arguments (as I provided). Neither is it lying. Gaslighting is the combination of refuting a person's reality while claiming they have some sort of deficiency "they're crazy/unstable, dishonest, etc).

What I'm saying is, that term doesn't mean what you think it means, and you've used it in the wrong context.

3) Not only did I extend a charitable interpretation of your definition, attempting to give you some wiggle room to back out of the flawed position you found yourself in, you then took that good will and attempted to appeal to character assassination (ad hominem) to defend an indefensible position. In short, and while I'm at the risk of being ironic, you're being incredibly intellectually disingenuous.


4) Again, a racial descriptor does not determine positive or negative qualities. It's simply a descriptor.

It seems you're so very desperate to force people into thinking that race must carry a bias (and in the examples above, a negative bias), but that's categorically and demonstrably not the case, and very much the definition of "racist".

Now please, for your sake, stop being silly. You're making my points for me at this juncture.



PS:


Giving into mental insanity doesn't make you right, it makes you foolish for not standing up for the correct thing, and that's a character flaw.

I'm not assigning new meaning, I'm pointing out that people could interpret it in problematic ways. Saying "dark men" isn't automatically racist, I never said it was, but given the context of it being the guild name for an Erudite-only guild, why would you possibly want to put what could be seen as a racial descriptor in the guild name?

Who cares about skin color? Just call them Erudites. <Erudites of Odus>, easy. This interpretation of the name "Dark Men of Odus" is pretty much the same as if it was called "Black People of Odus", and do you not see how that name could be problematic?

[ya.dingus]

I'm not assigning new meaning, I'm pointing out that people could interpret it in problematic ways. Saying "dark men" isn't automatically racist, I never said it was, but given the context of it being the guild name for an Erudite-only guild, why would you possibly want to put what could be seen as a racial descriptor in the guild name?

Who cares about skin color? Just call them Erudites. <Erudites of Odus>, easy. This interpretation of the name "Dark Men of Odus" is pretty much the same as if it was called "Black People of Odus", and do you not see how that name could be problematic?

And therein is yet another problem with the argument. Anyone can interpret anything as negative, but that doesn't make them right.

Labeling problematic speech that wasn't problematic was one of the first steps the Leninist party took in controlling the public with setting up communism is Russia in the 20th century.

A little bit of history goes a long way in seeing the same ideological arguments reused today to the same misleading and dangerous effects.

Under your logic why call them Erudites, just call them humans. Scratch that, that's offensive to anyone not human, just call them people.

Scratch that, people is too generic of a term to bipedal creatures, call them entities.


The argument is insane, misleading, and dangerous.


Now since you've admitted that saying Dark isn't racist and has no racist connotation, then you've just admitted there is nothing wrong with the term, and therefore is completely okay to use.

Thank you for at least admitting it.

DMO will be back.

[Reiwa]

And therein is yet another problem with the argument. Anyone can interpret anything as negative, but that doesn't make them right.

Labeling problematic speech that wasn't problematic was one of the first steps the Leninist party took in controlling the public with setting up communism is Russia in the 20th century.

A little bit of history goes a long way in seeing the same ideological arguments reused today to the same misleading and dangerous effects.

Under your logic why call them Erudites, just call them humans. Scratch that, that's offensive to anyone not human, just call them people.

Scratch that, people is too generic of a term to bipedal creatures, call them entities.


The argument is insane, misleading, and dangerous.


Now since you've admitted that saying Dark isn't racist and has no racist connotation, then you've just admitted there is nothing wrong with the term, and therefore is completely okay to use.

Thank you for at least admitting it.

DMO will be back.

The JBS strongly opposed the Civil Rights Movement and its goals, including desegregation and ending discriminatory practices. They characterized the Civil Rights Movement as a communist plot to divide the country and promote subversion. They specifically opposed the Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education, which mandated school desegregation, and busing for the purpose of school integration.

[ya.dingus]

The JBS strongly opposed the Civil Rights Movement and its goals, including desegregation and ending discriminatory practices. They characterized the Civil Rights Movement as a communist plot to divide the country and promote subversion. They specifically opposed the Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education, which mandated school desegregation, and busing for the purpose of school integration.

Are you trying to make an argument that a completely voluntary guild system in a video game, should be tied to real life politics in a mandatory public school system?

Are you saying that there can't be a difference between the lore in a fantasy game and real life as well?


Is your intention in your writing saying you have difficulty separating a fantasy world base on McQuaid and friends DND campaign settings over the years from actual real life?

Please explain.

[Reiwa]

Are you trying to make an argument that a completely voluntary guild system in a video game, should be tied to real life politics in a mandatory public school system?

Are you saying that there can't be a difference between the lore in a fantasy game and real life as well?


Is your intention in your writing saying you have difficulty separating a fantasy world base on McQuaid and friends DND campaign settings over the years from actual real life?

Please explain.

Nirgon is a Bircher and your guild leader.

[ya.dingus]

Nirgon is a Bircher and your guild leader.

This is the second time you've refused to engage with the argument and have resorted to inane comments or ad hominem.

[Reiwa]

This is the second time you've refused to engage with the argument and have resorted to inane comments or ad hominem.

Inane comments. Okey dokey. I wonder if this has a meaning that can be Googled?

I don't even have to check the early life section anymore on wikipedia

[ya.dingus]

Inane comments. Okey dokey. I wonder if this has a meaning that can be Googled?

Don't worry, I'm patient. I'll wait till you find a valid argument.

[CrazyPro]

Now since you've admitted that saying Dark isn't racist

That goes without saying and I shouldn't have even had to tell you. I think I'm done with this discussion, it's not going anywhere. G'day.

[Reiwa]

Don't worry, I'm patient. I'll wait till you find a valid argument.

Shaming you for serving under a commander of that quality is a valid argument. :)

[ya.dingus]

Shaming you for serving under a commander of that quality is a valid argument. :)

So more ad hominem without a real argument?

For your sake my friend, and I say this with complete kindness, it may be best for you to save a little face and exit the conversation.

[Reiwa]

So more ad hominem without a real argument?

For your sake my friend, and I say this with complete kindness, it may be best for you to save a little face and exit the conversation.

Confirmed: US Navy shot down TWA 800 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408604)

[Duik]

Don't you need a full group to start it?

If you know this game.
You know this answer.
Never made a guild in p99. I think 2 or 3 made a guild on live.
Find 2 other very fast runners and take back your rights.

[kjs86z2]

inb4 lock

[cd288]

You have access to everything every DMO member has ever said?

There was never a single report made about racist statements made in game chat. And the forums and Discord you can go check yourself. Go do it. I'll wait.

If there had been racist statements made, then they would've been banned for it. They weren't.

At any rate, you made some post about free speech in Off Topic and now you're against free speech at the same time? Interesting.

[HookrsNBlow]

Father Erud Still Blesses Us:

https://discord.gg/qKHwHB7R

[Doors]

P99 community has always been left leaning. Even 10 years ago when I played here it was almost unbearable, couldn't imagine how bad it is now.

Anyways fully support this post, if you want to really fly into a rage the Durham report just got declassified today. Just more truthbombs the left can't deal with.

[HookrsNBlow]

From the desk of Skullmogger, dictated but not read:

https://i.imgur.com/6yQ7YBs.png

Hail foul Antonics and distinguished Erudites,

We have founded a new chapter of Dark Men of Odus on Everquest Online Adventures: Sandstorm emu. We are honored to be among your memories. Long has it been since Erudites clashed with the mentally challenged and poxed mainlands. It is no surprise to us that the prismatic dragon was unreleased and by the same very circumstances we had warned you about. May you ever have to live with yourselves.

On to business. We will not return to this server and are internally cringing very hard at the amount of time these guilds "Good Guys", "Kingdom" and "Castle" have played post Velious timeline. We are also cringing internally very hard having seen many of those with brains afflicted by the Antonican Pox still in positions of moderation. We are further internally cringing harder at the failures of a fresh start here, post political debate forumquest rules which shouldn't have been allowed or hurled at an RP guild in the first place. We feel this would have been a healthier environment without the daily mailbag of petitions about superior beings in the game.
But I digress.

*The old Erudite stirs in his chair and slaps his bejeweled hand on the desk*

....With that said please join us on Sandstorm if you're interested and meet RP requirements. We trust you may join us in greener pastures -- halflings, half elves and unkempt individuals need not apply.

Sincerely,
Your palace dwelling elite always
"SM"

https://imgur.com/3gqgeYN.gif

https://i.imgur.com/zt27Fod.png

https://i.imgur.com/HLOuHnw.png

https://i.imgur.com/DvVQEF8.jpeg



Emu server:
https://eqoa.live/

Emu server discord (our thread):
https://discord.com/channels/1251536624467050628/1400109041291759727

Setup guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OqKsMmq5aq9Xpexk6nmUxAKBB_-m_f4xxIUpPJcq12k/edit?tab=t.0

Our Discord:
https://discord.gg/TkTQuzb2rX


Outros ♫:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h53DsWVmU6w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BudGFrI7AXQ

[Ennewi]

The problem with the racism argument is that at no point in any channel, whether in-game, on the forums, or in Discord did any member of DMO ever make any racist statements. Nor were they ever banned or disciplined for racism. If they hadn't intentionally deleted the UN channel then they'd likely still be around.

Free speech debates aside, it is somewhat difficult to ascertain even what all was said by Nirgon on the forums because they would post many times over per day, before being banned. That said, the accusation of racism came from staff, who do have access to guild chat and, of course, petitions.

https://project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406425

Old 08-05-2022, 08:53 PM
Blistig Blistig is offline
Server GM


Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 4,274
Default Staff-Moderated Discord Rules
Greetings! Effectively immediately; all Project 1999’s discord servers, including but not limited to our main and UN servers, will be added to CSR Staff’s scope of moderation and all discord members will be held accountable for their actions as governed by the guidelines established in our Play Nice Policy (PNP). This expansion of moderation was necessitated due to persistent atmospheric toxicity and abuse of the privilege to utilize our servers as an out-of-game method of communication.

...

Note: "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules. This list is not all-inclusive. Other actions may be determined as abuse at the discretion of CSR Staff.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378314

Old 02-10-2021, 02:51 PM
Menden Menden is offline
Server GM

Menden's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: The Nexus
Posts: 6,850
Default DMO has been disbanded
The guild Dark Men of Odus has been disbanded.

The leadership continues to cause issues among players in game, on the forums & within the Green UN channel. They have a long history of trolling, inciting arguments and racism. Each individual action has been handled accordingly but this is a pattern of behavior can no longer be ignored.


Something else I took notice of, while giving his post history a once-over...

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388120&page=3

#26
Old 07-16-2021, 01:56 PM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
Posts: 14,480
Default
The theological explanation for people like Horza is the devil has corrupted them. I dunno about all that but there's definitely something wrong with people like him that want to turn the whole world into a Chicago warzone.

I'd love to hear what some truth serum would get out of him lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3347505#post3347505

Old 08-16-2021, 06:12 PM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
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Default
His brain is more unrecoverable than Detroit.

Again, cultural issues that refused to be addressed. Has nothing to do with skin color even if he's been programmed to blast that constantly whenever problems are pointed out.

I refer back again to the KGB YouTube.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388120&page=33

#324
Old 08-05-2021, 11:00 AM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
Posts: 14,480
Default
If they're so good for us why are the countries they are coming from shit by comparison

For those not up one their EQ lore, particularly the shit hole that is ROOP, a quick recap...
(It's actually one of the best zones, ZEM aside. But that's besides the point.)

wpcPZE55LVg


Of course, observations like these play into the whole schtick. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Point out x, y, z and those who display the whole alphabet will then say "a-ha, gotcha!" for spelling it out. The allusion exists to draw in the accusation which can then be turned on the accuser. It'd almost be comedic if it wasn't so childish, in a game being played by adults. "What, me? No sir, I'm not racist. That thought never even crossed my mind until you pointed it out, which can only mean that you are racist!" It's a game within the game.

Maybe all of the above is reading into everything a bit much, but then there's that long post history just sitting there.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388120&page=13

#127
Old 07-21-2021, 01:49 PM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
Posts: 14,480
Default
Ok so no one is being charged with actual insurrection. So that's more lies from the muh Russia tinfoil brains.

Then they won't let capitol police testify because there's literally a video of them letting people in. A literal video recording of them saying OK you guys can come in if you're non violent.

Then we have proof they rigged an election now to shove Critical Racist Theories like kill whitey on members of military and children.

Then you have the staff in our community at the beck and call of these commie retards handing out free mobs and disbanding RP guilds.

Whole lot of big dog facts here, with all the proof in the world to back them up. Stay tuned.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388120&page=10

Old 07-19-2021, 11:43 AM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
Posts: 14,480
Default
https://youtu.be/Rmc12n5uCPU

.0075% of tweets found to be found "racist" - despite media coverage flailing about racism directed at the English players.

LOL.

The link is to a video by...

Paul Joseph Watson is a British YouTuber, radio host, and conspiracy theorist. Watson began working at Alex Jones' website InfoWars in 2002 where he promoted and advocated for 9/11, chemtrail, and New World Order conspiracy theories. He would later promote fake news stories like Pizzagate. Wikipedia

...so not exactly a reliable source, on top of the fact that they are better known for a 2022 incident where the following was said:

“I care about white people and not sand [n-word] Paki Jew f****t c****s, yeah?” It continues, “I really think that you should press the button to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth.” According to the Byline Times investigation, Watson made the comments recently at a party in the U.K.

Granted, the post came first, then the incident followed after and the two shouldn't be conflated. But our sources say as much about us as the information we consume.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388120

#6
Old 07-16-2021, 11:43 AM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
Posts: 14,480
Default
How long is it before every mental illness has a flag and gets special rights, and reasons to fire people from their jobs for being disgusted by it?

Amusingly, there already was a flag for that, created a year prior to his post.

https://carescribe.io/blog/what-is-the-mental-health-flag/

What is the Mental Illness Flag?
A collection of artists and advocates created The Mental Illness Flag in 2020. Pioneered by The Pete Foundation, this bespoke flag represents global acceptance and support for mental health issues.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388120&page=31

#310
Old 08-05-2021, 12:54 AM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
Posts: 14,480
Default
Becoming an instant citizen is an obvious loop hope abuse of something completely not intended
There is massive legal precedent to get it removed just like unconstitutional Obamacare.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3333967

Old 07-15-2021, 12:11 PM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
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cancel culture is all over p99 demanding free pixels, and getting them

#53
Old 07-15-2021, 12:15 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4,776
Default
reparations when?

#54
Old 07-15-2021, 12:18 PM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ruins of Old Paineel
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Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
reparations when?
how many were pioneers, engineers, business men, lawyers, doctors?

how much was actually contributed in us vs them terms?

what about the 600,000 whites that died to free them?

how can we determine fairly, accurately and without infinite legal dispute who exactly is entitled to them? who is going to pay for all the ancestry tests? will the cost of issuing as accurately as possible them far outweigh the actual reparations paid?

these are the questions that remain for me. I think there's enough give and take to call the spread covered tbh.

Old 07-15-2021, 12:26 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4,776
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

these are the questions that remain for me. I think there's enough give and take to call the spread covered tbh.
how dare you and your lack of high elf guilt

So, like, that's a lot of noise and it's exhausting to mull over. But now consider the fact that volunteer GMs had these interactions on a regular basis. Nuking the UN did the guild no favors, but that had to be the straw that broke the back. Ignoring all of this though, the rest of his post history is out-and-out confrontational, which is whatever, but forum trolling doesn't help the argument that DMO was created with purest intentions of roleplaying.

[ya.dingus]

All flimsy pretense in what is 100% a politically motivated ban. Moderation just didn't want to put up with it, and the obfuscation of any actual real evidence behind accusations is telling.

Moderation on p99 is not subject to transparency, so these kind of rulings will always be suspicious as with no transparency comes no accountability.

It's a tale as old as time.

[Reiwa]

P99 community has always been left leaning. Even 10 years ago when I played here it was almost unbearable, couldn't imagine how bad it is now.

Anyways fully support this post, if you want to really fly into a rage the Durham report just got declassified today. Just more truthbombs the left can't deal with.

Antisemitism didn't become left-coded until 2023.

[kjs86z2]

P99 community has always been left leaning. Even 10 years ago when I played here it was almost unbearable, couldn't imagine how bad it is now.


Gee golly gosh I wonder why.

<Freedom> was the last bastion of hope. Then CSR's "muh inclusivity" shift to bag limits, drafts, and a shitty rooted / zerg meta put the nail in the coffin.

[Duik]

Start the guild, or shut the hell up.

[kjs86z2]

Start the guild, or shut the hell up.

No point. Bellringer's army of pitchfork libtards would badger CSR to no end.

[Duik]

Shutting up is the only option then for the intelligent man!

And lolocaust for bellringers pitchfork libtard army.

[loramin]

The problem with the racism argument is that at no point in any channel, whether in-game, on the forums, or in Discord did any member of DMO ever make any racist statements. Nor were they ever banned or disciplined for racism. If they hadn't intentionally deleted the UN channel then they'd likely still be around.

You have access to everything every DMO member has ever said?

There was never a single report made about racist statements made in game chat.

Dude, just answer the question: do you or do you not have access to every chat statement the guild members have ever made?

[Cecily]

Do you have access to any quote that proves your point?

[Duik]

Buck buck buck buck.
What's the matter McFly, chicken?

[chillybob]

Don't you need a full group to start it?

You just need I think 10(?) characters, and a /petition listing their names + the guild name to create one. You could hypothetically even create 10 level 1s for this purpose.

[HookrsNBlow]

DMO didn't delete the UN, Phatez did.

Nirgon never said anything racist.

People here provoked him and he answered questions candidly.

Worse for them, all of his predictions came true.

Come visit him in Discord, he is the worst teacher and the best possible candidate for leader of the Erudites bar none.

[druidbob]

This is why they made Erudites into tall smurfs for eq2

[HookrsNBlow]

They're the traditional ones on EQOA: Sandstorm emulator and the guild is up. Check my previous post.

[Ennewi]

DMO didn't delete the UN, Phatez did.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3120895

04-30-2020, 07:40 AM
Plaguu~ Plaguu~ is offline
Large Rat


Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
Default DMO and the Green UN
A brief history of Green raiding and the UN.

January 18th, Lineage, Kingdom, and Black Lotus are on Teal competing for dragons, while Seal Team is on Green without competition and is ruling with an iron fist, holding down any valuable camp or target.

January 19th, Teal is closed and characters are moved to Green. 4 guilds are now competing for 2 raid targets and atleast 7 guilds are now competing for Fire Giants and Phinny. Teal and Green UN merge.

The UN is now crowded. A meeting is held to setup rotations for Fire Giants and Phinny because they are only 8 hour spawns, so theres plenty to go around to keep all guilds mostly happy. At the meeting Seal Team is asked about DMO for rotations, all guilds are informed to treat them like an alt guild of ST that just likes to RP, they dont want in on rotation slots or the UN.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3256160

#104
Old 02-07-2021, 08:10 AM
Bach Bach is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 122
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieel View Post
The Dark Men of Odus members who were present assisting Seal Team need to also be included in this ban.

Dmo is basically a ST guild, they always raid together and were there for the infractions.

If you see them on any raid content, report them.

Nirgon never said anything racist.

Forum troll responsible for erudite-only guild just so happened to also have PoE characters named AlexandriaOcasioSmullet and the like, on an account that was then made private. Nothing out of the ordinary. Definitely not peculiar in at all...

[Reiwa]

Nirgon never said anything racist.

Waiting to get an answer in PM but I'll abide by it. :p

[Ciderpress]

I think maybe the guild was designed to provoke the exact reaction showcased by this thread, and their enduring mythology. A guild that no longer exists has more purchase in your minds than existing ones.

It was funny. Much more offensive names are routinely allowed. Who cares.

[Swish]

https://i.imgur.com/ioidFQa.gif

[HookrsNBlow]

Waiting to get an answer in PM but I'll abide by it. :p


He would agree with this, you'd call it racist

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1951735312096354390?t=i964Iqy5VDDjh_Lyodl3sw&s=19

The man has a serious distaste for ripping off other people's hard work, freeloaders and unsafe or dirty living places

There's no denying he wants what's best for us, or at least the deserving

[shovelquest]

I think maybe the guild was designed to provoke the exact reaction showcased by this thread, and their enduring mythology. A guild that no longer exists has more purchase in your minds than existing ones.

It was funny. Much more offensive names are routinely allowed. Who cares.

You can strike me down… but I’ll become more powerful than you can ever imagine

[Reiwa]

He would agree with this, you'd call it racist

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1951735312096354390?t=i964Iqy5VDDjh_Lyodl3sw&s=19

The man has a serious distaste for ripping off other people's hard work, freeloaders and unsafe or dirty living places

There's no denying he wants what's best for us, or at least the deserving

Causing a cholera outbreak is >Le bad!!

[CrazyPro]

remake the guild you cowards

[Vexenu]

Swarthy Men of Odus
Dusky Men of Odus
Almond-toned Men of Odus
Chocolate Men of Odus
Brothers of Odus

[HookrsNBlow]

remake the guild you cowards

One more time I guess.....

They're on EQOA: Sandstorm Emu

https://i.imgur.com/5dkMMZ2.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/HaA0RLc.png

[Cecily]

Did the black streamer Levelup Larry who was in the guild think you guys were racist? I feel like the answer to that is a fucking hell of a lot more important than anything thought by the droves of well-meaning white people screaming racist from the sidelines. This is my biggest issue with "allies." Bleeding hearts who think their hearts are in the right place when they're really getting blood all over shit on behalf of another demographic who don't even care.

[Duik]

Clarence Thomas.

[Reiwa]

Did the black streamer Levelup Larry who was in the guild think you guys were racist? I feel like the answer to that is a fucking hell of a lot more important than anything thought by the droves of well-meaning white people screaming racist from the sidelines. This is my biggest issue with "allies." Bleeding hearts who think their hearts are in the right place when they're really getting blood all over shit on behalf of another demographic who don't even care.

Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?

[Praxcthius]

Maybe if you looked at things through the lens of blood type versus skin color some of you dick tuckers might finally figure out racism is a hoax

[Duik]

Dick Tucker is my drag name. Leave her out of this!

[Ennewi]

Did the black streamer Levelup Larry who was in the guild think you guys were racist? I feel like the answer to that is a fucking hell of a lot more important than anything thought by the droves of well-meaning white people screaming racist from the sidelines.

It'd be interesting to know their thoughts, even just their feelings about the guild being disbanded.

But ITT there's really only been speculation about why the guild was disbanded, with then lead GM publicly stating that racism was one of the main reasons. Even the copy/pasted forum posts fall short of that, so considering livestreams are more public than RNF threads, chances are no one said anything to troll the popular livestreamer in their own guild.

Also, some of us don't belong to any one demographic, but have more ambiguous backgrounds, myself included. But jury's still out on whether that amounts to anything ITT.

This is my biggest issue with "allies." Bleeding hearts who think their hearts are in the right place when they're really getting blood all over shit on behalf of another demographic who don't even care.

Best I can tell, no one's trying to be an ally, unless those insults were meant for staff? But, even then, staff merely enforced the rules and then updated those rules to reflect their position on certain behaviors. The OP argument is that the guild was "canceled" unfairly and we are to believe something conspiratorial took place, rather than accept the reasons provided by Menden. Tough sell.

Whether the premise of the guild was genuine or not, there's no point in being offended for others or oneself. On the other hand, indifference isn't a great alternative either because of that whole paradox of tolerance thing. Regardless, actively trying to be offensive is a waste of time, energy, and a poor use of intelligence. It can be done well, but that requires humor and perspective. So unless they're working comedians, which seems unlikely, maybe stick to doing what nerd-related activities.

If offended that others seem to have taken offense, first recognize the dilemma in that, but then also question whether anyone else is actually offended or even mildly annoyed. This project is older the sin and some of the names involved have been around since the beginning. They earned a reputation for trolling/trying to be offensive. Due to the number of posts, it came to be expected from them and so, eventually, it stopped having the intended effect. All the same, breaking the rules is an offense. And always it is the case that certain people will test the waters or poke the bear and then /yell for help when the waters overtake them or the bear wakes from its slumber. The waters were the rules. The bear was the GM. Anyone wanting to repeat history probably wouldn't be deterred by any naysaying here.

Personally, it's just fun to consider the beginning, middle, and end of what all happened, but also frustrating without all of the information. It's also interesting to consider might have been, if the guild had been created by players with higher INT/WIS, which is ironic. Given that trolls have low scores in both, maybe they ought to start a new guild using that race only. Then, whenever they troll, they can legitimately use roleplay as an excuse or plead ignorance of the rules. No sarcasm at all. It would have been a clever answer to the events that played out. Instead, here we are, with this thread. If anything is offensive, it's offensive to not put effort into this, to not forth something more inspired than a thread that is lacking, roleplay among other things.

The creativity this game allows is part of what's worth discussing, more so than whether or not guild #15109 will get to reform. There had to be similar guilds back in the day.

[Reiwa]

It's also interesting to consider might have been, if the guild had been created by players with higher INT/WIS, which is ironic.

More sad are these we daily see:

"It is, but hadn't ought to be."

[Cecily]

Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?

That's when you call someone gay, right?

[Reiwa]

That's when you call someone gay, right?

Usually. If LuL favored a policy of jumping off bridges, would that be a good substitute for an argument to do so?

[Cecily]

What's a LuL? Lulsect? Lol? Something amusable? Is that an acronym?

https://i.imgur.com/KX7A9tH.jpeg

What's your country of origin / native language?

[Reiwa]

What's a LuL? Lulsect? Lol? Something amusable? Is that an acronym?

https://i.imgur.com/KX7A9tH.jpeg

What's your country of origin / native language?

(L)evel (u)p (L)arry, the person you're arguing as ad hominem in the topic of DMO.

[Cecily]

So I'm using him as an attack? Do you know what ad hominess means? Because I never once called him gay. If anything I'd say I'm using him as an appeal to authority and the personal attack would be calling you people bleeding hearts.
Is it ok if I have a little logical fallacy, as a treat?

[Reiwa]

So I'm using him as an attack? Do you know what ad hominess means? Because I never once called him gay. If anything I'd say I'm using him as an appeal to authority and the personal attack would be calling ahem you people bleeding hearts.

That's pretty close or at least close enough. You're arguing the person instead of doin a heckin argument.

Did the black streamer Levelup Larry who was in the guild think you guys were racist? I feel like the answer to that is a fucking hell of a lot more important than anything thought by the droves of well-meaning white people screaming racist from the sidelines.

[Cecily]

I still think that's more important than any opinions coming non-black, non-guild members. Seemed like he was having a good time from the videos I saw and that just carries more weight.
Sorry if it seems like I'm calling your argument a hominid. If you'll excuse me, I'm trolling furries on steam.

[Reiwa]

I still think that's more important than any opinions coming non-black, non-guild members. Seemed like he was having a good time from the videos I saw and that just carries more weight.
Sorry if it seems like I'm calling your argument a hominid.

You're free to think anything you want, we aren't gonna fistfight.

But your argument is a person.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UH0W_ccOaXc/sddefault.jpg

[Cecily]

"An ad hominem fallacy occurs when someone attacks the character or personal traits of a person making an argument instead of addressing the argument itself."

I'm not attacking him. His status as a person doesn't make it ad hominem. And part B was a rant about allies, heavily motivated by my own experience. Take that as a personal attack if you will.

[Reiwa]

"An ad hominem fallacy occurs when someone attacks the character or personal traits of a person making an argument instead of addressing the argument itself."

I'm not attacking him. His status as a person doesn't make it ad hominem.

https://media.tenor.com/j28FfUgcuaIAAAAe/palpatine-complete-training.png

[Cecily]

Alright, back to his insane proposal to have people jump off bridges. Would personal attacks serve in lieu of an argument against it? Yeah. Pretty effectively, too, I think. These days you really can't expect words to sway another person, but you can speak to the audience, particularly those vulnerable to jumping and rally support by discrediting him as an authority on the health benefits of gravity-assisted diving.

[Reiwa]

Alright, back to his insane proposal to have people jump off bridges. Would personal attacks serve in lieu of an argument against it? Yeah. Pretty effectively, too, I think. These days you really can't expect words to sway another person, but you can speak to the audience and rally support that way.

You're rallying support by positively arguing a person(and to a lesser extent, his preferences) to support your position.

That's ad hominem.

[Cecily]

I'm aware. I know what an homiletics is. I disagree that "fallacy" invalidates such an argument. I think character assassination is a lot more efficient and realistic than swaying someone with a respectful, well-constructed argument.

I think I agreed without reading correctly. To clarify, I'm invalidating the crazy argument by ignoring it and using personal attacks. I feel like that's not "positively arguing," although it is ad hdhovercraft.

[Reiwa]

I'm aware. I know what an homiletics is. I disagree that "fallacy" invalidates such an argument. I think character assassination is a lot more efficient and realistic than swaying someone with a respectful, well-constructed argument.

Marvin the Martian says trans rights.

[Reiwa]

The statements are not equal in quality but they are equal in value.

[Swish]

https://i.imgur.com/vWBOEqE.png

https://i.imgur.com/8fzDPZN.png

[chillybob]

https://i.imgur.com/vWBOEqE.png

https://i.imgur.com/8fzDPZN.png

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Ekco]

One more time I guess.....
They're on EQOA: Sandstorm Emu


the FashionQuest is so much better in eqoa than eq


I'm trolling furries on steam.
someone has to

[Duik]

So let me get to the important part of this thread, the rest is just faff and twaddle.

There is a server for eqoa that you can access from a ps2?

[Ekco]

from the ps2 inside your computer yeah

[Duik]

Oh i see. So emulator and high seas rom

[Ekco]

your honor, my client clearly downloaded software that is considered abandonware.

20 years hard labor in the salt mines seems a bit harsh of a sentence.

[kjs86z2]

imagine being offended over elfsim rp guild

[HookrsNBlow]

The DMOs have noticed that Google AI will not draw EverQuest Erudites but Grok will.

How far does this conspiracy go? Since all the other ones came true, we have something to ponder again. Let us open our tomes and research.

[Ekco]

imagine being offended over elfsim rp guild

imagine still imagine posting in 2025

sage goes in all fields
https://i.imgur.com/3DKxxFU.jpeg

[Ekco]

How far does this conspiracy go?

i just wanna know what Swish meant by this, seems kinda racist

https://i.imgur.com/NEt2zRC.png
what are cartoon men pointing at, is there something wrong with the color black?

[cd288]

Dude, just answer the question: do you or do you not have access to every chat statement the guild members have ever made?

It's a bad faith question though. Because it's nonsensical. Of course none of us have access to EVERY SINGLE message EVERY SINGLE member of DMO ever typed.

What we DO have is all the messages they have ever put out in public channels, which never included racism. What we DO have is the fact that there were never any petitions submitted about racism in any P99 chat medium, whether in game or otherwise and that they were not banned for racism but rather for deleting the UN channel to troll Menden.

For the record, I never said these were good people, but from the day the guild was created they weren't making racist statements. Know how you know? Because if they had, you Loramin would be keeping a record of them in some file on your computer to throw out in posts like these. Because you live for shit like that.

At any rate, you were whining about freedom of speech in Off Topic. Seems like you like to pick and choose when that can apply lol

[kjs86z2]

It's a bad faith question though. Because it's nonsensical. Of course none of us have access to EVERY SINGLE message EVERY SINGLE member of DMO ever typed.

What we DO have is all the messages they have ever put out in public channels, which never included racism. What we DO have is the fact that there were never any petitions submitted about racism in any P99 chat medium, whether in game or otherwise and that they were not banned for racism but rather for deleting the UN channel to troll Menden.

For the record, I never said these were good people, but from the day the guild was created they weren't making racist statements. Know how you know? Because if they had, you Loramin would be keeping a record of them in some file on your computer to throw out in posts like these. Because you live for shit like that.

At any rate, you were whining about freedom of speech in Off Topic. Seems like you like to pick and choose when that can apply lol

well said

[loramin]

It's a bad faith question though. Because it's nonsensical. Of course none of us have access to EVERY SINGLE message EVERY SINGLE member of DMO ever typed.

What we DO have is all the messages they have ever put out in public channels, which never included racism. What we DO have is the fact that there were never any petitions submitted about racism in any P99 chat medium, whether in game or otherwise and that they were not banned for racism but rather for deleting the UN channel to troll Menden.

For the record, I never said these were good people, but from the day the guild was created they weren't making racist statements. Know how you know? Because if they had, you Loramin would be keeping a record of them in some file on your computer to throw out in posts like these. Because you live for shit like that.

At any rate, you were whining about freedom of speech in Off Topic. Seems like you like to pick and choose when that can apply lol

So you claimed DMO never said anything racist ... with no basis for that claim?

(And the reason I don't have a "record in some file on my computer" is because I don't go around making false claims that require such a file.)

[questever]

i just wanna know what Swish meant by this, seems kinda racist

https://i.imgur.com/NEt2zRC.png
what are cartoon men pointing at, is there something wrong with the color black?

Ban him! Ban him right now!

[HookrsNBlow]

These people bring up the "well known facts" of UN deletion and racism by DMO

Yet they didn't delete the UN nor does anyone have any proof

Same kinds of people, same kinds of hoaxes, same kinds of repeating lies

Don't let politics invade your games, kids

The fun gets sucked out fast until all that's left is a bread line for pixels and the "old lady book club" version of R&F

[cd288]

So you claimed DMO never said anything racist ... with no basis for that claim?

(And the reason I don't have a "record in some file on my computer" is because I don't go around making false claims that require such a file.)

So you’re asking me to prove a negative? lol what

Why do you keep ignoring your double standard when it comes to freedom of speech?

[cd288]

These people bring up the "well known facts" of UN deletion and racism by DMO

Yet they didn't delete the UN nor does anyone have any proof

Same kinds of people, same kinds of hoaxes, same kinds of repeating lies

Don't let politics invade your games, kids

The fun gets sucked out fast until all that's left is a bread line for pixels and the "old lady book club" version of R&F

To be fair to both sides, now you’re not arguing in good faith. They did delete the UN and they admitted it. It was a totally dick move and completely unnecessary.

[HookrsNBlow]

To be fair to both sides, now you’re not arguing in good faith. They did delete the UN and they admitted it. It was a totally dick move and completely unnecessary.

Now hold on a minute buddy, we can prove I am right by going to their Discord and asking them. They didn't delete anything. So you can retract that.

You can go to their discord and ask them, they did not do that.

It was done because the GMs rotated raid mobs, after intense lobbying and probably threats of mass quitting, when they promised not to. The UN channel as I am told was created for player agreements and there would be no rotated mobs. When that rotating happened, Phatez deleted it. DMO of course made light of it and continued to make fun of a 20+ Kedge raid wipe after it, in intentional disregard for the gravity of the situation.

The truth is it's a shame it all came to this and after a best effort to create a fair monthly open server raid with open rolls and a clean play encouraged but competitive raid scene. It just seems the friends I have from DMO will always be assailed by people who end up regretting it and stuck with what all it leaves behind.

[Cecily]

Yeah it was Seal Team that nuked wasnt it? Please fact check your grievances before whining about them.

[shovelquest]

In a fantasy game of "elves, trolls, ogres, dark elves", the one thing you desperately want to roleplay is ... dark-skinned humans? :rolleyes:

Yes. Because the lore of the game they are super elitists themselves, and it was fun to play as a super elitist gamer who hates everyone that is below them.

But virtue signalers are fixated on skin color defining everything, because they mine race issues for praise.

The irony that virtue signalers would never not be able to see the skin color, is why the DMO guild was made.

Because it was known you would make a race issue out of it.

And it was a yuge $ucce$$

[Ennewi]

DMO was considered an alt guild of ST. Factually, probably a lot of the same people back then, just different characters. Correct if wrong, but that was the sentiment / general consensus.

[Ennewi]

But virtue signalers are fixated on skin color defining everything, because they mine race issues for praise.

Because it was premeditated, you are admittedly fixated on it as well. And, more than that, fixated on the virtue signalers, enough that it caused you all to make a guild in order to get their attention.

And it was a yuge $ucce$$

You were mining too, only earlier, for controversy or yucks or whatever. Same difference.

[HookrsNBlow]

There was 1 DMO alt in ST, and none the other way around

The ST guy who did it was moved down some ranks in the guild even if he was the top neckbeard

This is all more complicated than people here have tried to make it seem, and people may be repeating incorrect things they heard unintentionally

Learn from the mistakes though, it's what Father Erud would have wanted

[Reiwa]

Waiting to get an answer in PM but I'll abide by it. :p

Jurist has declined to answer. Guess that means I win by default.

RhvIISDoarU

[Cecily]

NASA guy made me think of my favorite Simpsons joke.

co6RuzKUOvg

[HookrsNBlow]

This other guy with the latin signature is so gd weird

Lay off the Reddit, buddy

[Reiwa]

This other guy with the latin signature is so gd weird

Lay off the Reddit, buddy

Reddition means surrender.

[Ekco]

my only gripe with the DMO controversy is HEDS never gets brought up at all ;/ someone should compile an actual history book of the server(s) so the rich lore isn't lost like tears in the rain.

https://i.imgur.com/dbMf1Rl.png
https://i.imgur.com/CRAaVdd.png
https://project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139204&highlight=HEDS

[Swish]

my only gripe with the DMO controversy is HEDS never gets brought up at all ;/ someone should compile an actual history book of the server(s) so the rich lore isn't lost like tears in the rain.


Get your AI to do it :)

[Ekco]

Get your AI to do it :)

that was quite literally the plan a couple months ago, but with 50,000 bots still hitting the forums on the reg and me quite literally not knowing wtf i'm doing, vibe coding a forum scrapper and pointing it at something i love sounds like a bad idea

someone that's like actually a writer should do it, i have a history book for my time playing Eve Online, a P99 one would be dope
https://i.imgur.com/fj2chBM.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/9fERGVH.jpeg

[cd288]

Yeah it was Seal Team that nuked wasnt it? Please fact check your grievances before whining about them.

I literally heard Nirgon in voice chat say they were involved. And then yes they created a YouTube video mocking the staff for it.

Surprised you have an opinion about anything guild related since haven’t you been kicked out of like every guild you joined?

[loramin]

that was quite literally the plan a couple months ago, but with 50,000 bots still hitting the forums on the reg and me quite literally not knowing wtf i'm doing, vibe coding a forum scrapper and pointing it at something i love sounds like a bad idea

someone that's like actually a writer should do it, i have a history book for my time playing Eve Online, a P99 one would be dope
https://i.imgur.com/fj2chBM.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/9fERGVH.jpeg

https://wiki.project1999.com/Raid_History

[Ekco]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Raid_History

oh, of course. seems pretty detailed as far as drama goes just needs to be expanded to like 200 pages

[loramin]

oh, of course. seems pretty detailed as far as drama goes just needs to be expanded to like 200 pages

I strongly encourage you (or anyone else) to make a more detailed version ... just keep it wiki-appropriate ;)

[Ekco]

yeah that's what im getting at the historical accounts as accurate as possible and agreed by all sides, then both points of view listed where agreement can't be reached and commentary by the author on it, who ideally isn't someone from the community(AI most likely) coming in with their own bias none of which would be appropriate for the wiki, like the thread from 2014 i linked a page ago

the Wired/Ars Technica writer who did the eve book had to go interview people and do investigative journalism to fill in the gaps and the entire thing was crowd funded

lotta parallels with eve and p99 also as far as hacking forums and doxing and crazy shit

[shovelquest]

I strongly encourage you (or anyone else)

What about DSM

[Cecily]

I literally heard Nirgon in voice chat say they were involved. And then yes they created a YouTube video mocking the staff for it.

Surprised you have an opinion about anything guild related since haven’t you been kicked out of like every guild you joined?

Yeah it was Seal Team that nuked wasnt it? Please fact check your grievances before whining about them.

As for your petty personal attacks, I must admit I am at a disadvantage because I attach my name to my posts and don't use an anonymous handle like crossdresser2nazi.

[loramin]

What about DSM

When DSM is acting like a normal human being, he's perfectly capable of making (quality) contributions to the wiki ... and I welcome such contributions, from him or anyone else.

[shovelquest]

When DSM is acting like a normal human being, he's perfectly capable of making (quality) contributions to the wiki ... and I welcome such contributions, from him or anyone else.

Who is the arbiter of DSM acting normal or not?

[loramin]

Who is the arbiter of DSM acting normal or not?

On the wiki, the wiki admins. But only in the "is he messing with the wiki?" sense.

[Ekco]

welcome[/I] such contributions, from him or anyone else.

i logged in just to see if i could remember the password
https://i.imgur.com/WEQ3I7R.png

and was all like oh 32 contributions, wtf did i write

turns out it was just 32 edits to my magelo

sry bud

[shovelquest]

On the wiki, the wiki admins. But only in the "is he messing with the wiki?" sense.

Who is the arbiter of what is contributing or messing with the wiki?

[loramin]

On the wiki, the wiki admins. But only in the "is he messing with the wiki?" sense.

Who is the arbiter of what is contributing or messing with the wiki?

https://24.media.tumblr.com/486e18ae6eecfff97fdc19dbc33ab4ca/tumblr_mhqc9iSDIg1qed7g8o2_400.gif

[shovelquest]

But last time you proved that you couldn't tell the difference.

[questever]

^

DSM's alt account confirmed.

[Reiwa]

Yeah it was Seal Team that nuked wasnt it? Please fact check your grievances before whining about them.

As for your petty personal attacks, I must admit I am at a disadvantage because I attach my name to my posts and don't use an anonymous handle like crossdresser2nazi.

Xaanka wouldn't deny being a Jew hater. That lady had balls.

[shovelquest]

DSM very smart and he also is very good at everquest and so very handsome and strong he is also very cool and gets with the ladies all the time and is married and owns a house.

[CrazyPro]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Raid_History

Someone really needs to write down all of the Green raid history there and I certainly wouldn't be the one to start it since I only started playing right after Kunark launch.

[Duik]

DSM very smart and he also is very good at everquest and so very handsome and strong he is also very cool and gets with the ladies all the time and is married and owns a house.

I see Shovel 07, license to shill is up to his old tricks.

[cd288]

Yeah it was Seal Team that nuked wasnt it? Please fact check your grievances before whining about them.

As for your petty personal attacks, I must admit I am at a disadvantage because I attach my name to my posts and don't use an anonymous handle like crossdresser2nazi.

When I said Nirgon said in voice chat that "they were involved" I was referring to DMO being involved. He said DMO was involved in nuking it. And then on top of that adding the trolling YouTube video, they were just asking for the ban hammer and they got it. But again, had nothing to do with the name of the guild, etc.

These forums aren't always the best, but usually they are at least marginally better when Cecily does her (his? can't recall) periodic disappearing acts.

[HookrsNBlow]

How was he involved? He completely denied it to me but did admit to predicting everything that would happen and making fun of people along the way.

Unless he was referring to the trolling causing hysteria and saying that was part of things reaching a fever peak. He didn't push a delete button and certainly had no authority over ST officers to tell them what to do, not that he would as a person Ive known and spent time with over the years.

But it was like this on blue before and the raid scene remains recklessly accusatory and belligerent. Go talk to the guy, he's didn't get any predictions wrong and that's pretty crazy.

[Cecily]

Everyone knows DMO were the ones pulling the strings. Anonymous forum rando making up revisionist his (her?) story. Tale as old as the forums.

[zelld52]

So, like, that's a lot of noise and it's exhausting to mull over. But now consider the fact that volunteer GMs had these interactions on a regular basis. Nuking the UN did the guild no favors, but that had to be the straw that broke the back. Ignoring all of this though, the rest of his post history is out-and-out confrontational, which is whatever, but forum trolling doesn't help the argument that DMO was created with purest intentions of roleplaying.

Stop using facts on these people. They are too busy parroting whatever bullshit they hear on their favorite culture wars content that tickles their berries.

[kjs86z2]

nirgon was dropping lots of hard to swallow facts for lefty dippy doos

dmo got gotted

[ya.dingus]

nirgon was dropping lots of hard to swallow facts for lefty dippy doos

dmo got gotted

It's true, even when you mention 'woke' they try to obscure the meaning of the word (typical behavior - if words don't have meaning they can shift to whatever they want to leverage in make believe land).

Sometimes I think the 99 server/forums are basically a subreddit with how left it can be sometimes.

Very deranged stuff.

Just for the record, I don't hold a political party.

[Ekco]

Sometimes I think the 99 server/forums are basically a subreddit with how left it can be sometimes.

this is the place that literally hosted jennifer lawrence's butthole in RnF for like week, RnF was no different than 4chan from like 2014 - whenever so a shift to left/woke of that is just normal, i fucking hate reddit but spamming f***** at people constantly is just as extreme and dumb as the purple haired people and their bullshit

just needs a common middle ground

like the word retard being acceptable and normal shitposting, any censorship to the left/right of that is unneeded

[Ekco]

so yes, DMO should be reinstated and that freestyle level up larry did is the greatest EQ thing in like 2 fuckin decades.

[shovelquest]

It's pronounced R-word.

[Ekco]

my bad.

[shovelquest]

Oh I don't care :o

[Ekco]

Oh I don't care :o

yeah, i'm speaking to the non posting audience when i post something like that, don't want the 50,000 ai bots to think i use the word RETARD casually.

[Cecily]

You are fined 1 credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.

[shovelquest]

Demolition man intensifies

[cd288]

It's true, even when you mention 'woke' they try to obscure the meaning of the word (typical behavior - if words don't have meaning they can shift to whatever they want to leverage in make believe land).

Sometimes I think the 99 server/forums are basically a subreddit with how left it can be sometimes.

Very deranged stuff.

Just for the record, I don't hold a political party.

As per the forum rules, keep politics out of here

[cd288]

How was he involved? He completely denied it to me but did admit to predicting everything that would happen and making fun of people along the way.

Unless he was referring to the trolling causing hysteria and saying that was part of things reaching a fever peak. He didn't push a delete button and certainly had no authority over ST officers to tell them what to do, not that he would as a person Ive known and spent time with over the years.

But it was like this on blue before and the raid scene remains recklessly accusatory and belligerent. Go talk to the guy, he's didn't get any predictions wrong and that's pretty crazy.

I'm just reporting what he told me when I was in their voice channel literally an hour after they posted the YouTube video. Sounds like he told you something different. Which isn't surprising when it comes to Nirgon

[HookrsNBlow]

We noticed you didn't join the discord to confront him. You're clearly caught making things up. We know who deleted it and it is someone he has no authority over. How embarrassing for you.

Here's a meme for your sins!

https://i.imgur.com/lfrzqIt.png

[Ekco]

>As per the forum rules, keep politics out of here

My bad on the language of my reply, wandered in here on accident again

Can I file a motion to move thread to RnF

[Reiwa]

Here's a meme for your sins!

https://i.imgur.com/lfrzqIt.png

Denim clothing was popularized as a symbol of youthful rebellion and counterculture.

They have played us for absolute fools.

[shovelquest]

As per the forum rules, keep politics out of here

To be fair this isn't really politics, but more social constructs in this context.

And is related to one of the main reasons the guild was disbanded (and created).

[kjs86z2]

As per the forum rules, keep politics out of here

found 'em

[kjs86z2]

reppin hard

https://i.imgur.com/cQkJnfg.png

[HookrsNBlow]

Black RP voices were silenced

[Duik]

RMT. Rifle Money Transfer.

[cd288]

We noticed you didn't join the discord to confront him. You're clearly caught making things up. We know who deleted it and it is someone he has no authority over. How embarrassing for you.

Here's a meme for your sins!

https://i.imgur.com/lfrzqIt.png

Huh?

[Reiwa]

Huh?

https://i.imgur.com/FCVpZAW.png

[shovelquest]

https://i.imgur.com/FCVpZAW.png

lmao this is a great meme for last week.

Dr Phil on bill mahar "im buyin american eagle jeans for every woman in my family" lol

[Swish]

Not one of mine, but from the forum archives

https://i.imgur.com/Kf2mDMp.gif

[Duik]

lmao this is a great meme for last week.

Dr Phil on bill mahar "im buyin american eagle jeans for every woman in my family" lol

Do we think this is how he sees the women in his family, or he wants them to be hot, blonde and breathy and thinks buying the jeans changes the genes?

[shovelquest]

Do we think this is how he sees the women in his family, or he wants them to be hot, blonde and breathy and thinks buying the jeans changes the genes?

Might want to ask your therapist this one. :o

[ya.dingus]

Dark men rise up!

When a Dark King speaks, others fall silent.

[shovelquest]

Dark men rise up!

When a Dark King speaks, others fall silent.

https://i.imgur.com/1q0jSZS.gif

[Reiwa]

Dark men rise up!

When a Dark King speaks, others fall silent.

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/nine-rings-horz.jpg

[Duik]

My point was that Dr Philbert IS A THERAPIST. For The Rapist as it turns out.

[shovelquest]

THERAPIST.

https://i.imgur.com/J9NRaCm.png

[Reiwa]

Is it canon that the men of Odus have milk anemia? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahima_disease)